Regarding the map: would the Scenario group be interested in a map like this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6799308&postcount=11)? I can describe it here in greater detail, if you'd like.

I like! :thumbsup:

Regarding the map: would the Scenario group be interested in a map like this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6799308&postcount=11)? I can describe it here in greater detail, if you'd like.I like it a lot. The idea of a crescent moon is nice. Very Meliés!

I hate to suggest what would basically be a restart to your work, but how about this:

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/4849/lostworldsschemahh2.png

The proportions don't have to be the same. One advantage is that travel between the planets is then possible. Maybe the underworld could have a roundish bulge in the middle with larger "caverns" for Agartha. Venus I imagine to be very humid & full of jungles. Also lots & lots of seas. To distinguish Pellucidar, give it greater variety of terrain.

The idea of a crescent moon is nice. Very Meliés! And very victorian. I was looking for a way to keep it from just being bands of terrain, and this idea presented itself. I even made a backstory, that the tribes of the moon could only live within the small "terminus" band where they wouldn't get either the full sun or total dark. But really, I just wanted to do a man in the moon.

To distinguish Pellucidar, give it greater variety of terrain. Every terrain on the map is different. Here are some closer screen shots:

Mars
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/7269/marsscreenea2.jpg


The Moon:

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/9272/moonscreenby6.jpg


Atlantis:

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/269/atlantisscreentu7.jpg


And Pellucidar:

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/6218/pellucidarscreenkv4.jpg


Mars features terrain and cities from Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri that I found online. I made the mountains of Mars and the Moon myself. The moon's irrigation is made from a Sim City set. Pellucidar isn't finished yet, but features prehistoric trees to go with the Dinosaurs. The Maps of Pellucidar and Barsoom are from the Barsoom Glossary (http://erblist.com/abg/index.html).

Blue Monkey, I considered the idea of including Venus, but frankly, we're out of terrain on this one, and besides this took me better than two weeks to make, and I have to get on to making Asian trees for a friend once I get the bugs out of this one.

One more thing: I've envisioned that each layer would have two competing civs: Mars has Orovars and Tharks, The Moon has Selenites and Ugas. England has the English and Scots, the Underworld has Atlanteans (Atlantans?) and an underground race. Finally, Pellucidar has the Sagoths and the Mahars (Dinosaurs, Great Apes, Sabertooth tigers, etc). 10 civs on a 160 x 350 map.

This map deserves its own thread within the SteamPunk Scenario forum. If I understood Flamand & embryodead properly, you had to hexedit each individual tile where you wanted the "peculiar" terrain. I once asked Plotinus to create a new thread out of a section of another, so I know it would be possible to move the posts already made.

As far as the underground race - how about Bulwer-Lytton's Vril (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vril) or else Agartha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agartha) (which could use many of the interesting Asian units available).

Venus would be possible, using a mix of the terrains you've already made. But I understand your reluctance to rebuild such a gem as you've created. On the subject of Venus: Burroughs made a series about Amtor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_series) to complement his Barsoom. Maps are available for it, as well (http://www.erbzine.com/mag14/1494.html).

Wow! It looks amazing close-up!

This map deserves its own thread within the SteamPunk Scenario forum.I once asked Plotinus to create a new thread out of a section of another, so I know it would be possible to move the posts already made. That would, in my opinion, be entirely up to King Arthur. This is his scenario group and he makes the call. As of yet, we haven't heard if he even likes this map, or if I've just screwed up weeks of his own work. I would, of course be pleased to have anyone work on this as a scenario or sub-scenario, and will appreciate input from everyone. It seems to me that once the tech tree and units are established, it could be applied to many adventures.

If I understood Flamand & embryodead properly, you had to hexedit each individual tile where you wanted the "peculiar" terrain. Actually I ended up not doing that. I need to learn more about that process before actually trying it. I did this all with existing terrain, modifying the pcx's as needed.

As far as the underground race - how about Bulwer-Lytton's Vril (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vril) or else Agartha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agartha) (which could use many of the interesting Asian units available). I think the Vril are perfect for what I had in mind, as they would be in the same culture group as the Atlanteans. Great suggestion.

Venus would be possible, using a mix of the terrains you've already made. But I understand your reluctance to rebuild such a gem as you've created. On the subject of Venus: Burroughs made a series about Amtor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_series) to complement his Barsoom. Maps are available for it, as well (http://www.erbzine.com/mag14/1494.html). I was aware of Amtor before I began, but as I said, couldn't see how I could do it justice with the terrain I had to work with. Of course there's always a possibility of doing Amtor in the future.

I had been wrestling with how to make a "Lost Worlds" map. The Hollow Earth, but also Lemuria, Kong Island, & other exotic places that could be fit into a SteamPunk mod. Your map got me sweating with creative excitement. If you won't feel plagiarized, when I get time (months from now, probably) I'd like to riff on some of your ideas (like the crescent moon) & make my own stab at making a map along the lines of the diagram I posted above. I was already thinking of going in a slightly different direction with the terrain - Rhye's Underworld Terrain, for example, with Tsuga's additions (if they can be recovered).

Wow! It looks amazing close-up!

Thank you Virote. Here's more:

England
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/1807/englandscreenky5.jpg


Scotland

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/559/scotlandscreenao4.jpg


Using Varwnos' English cities of course. I'm torn whether to connect the English and Scottish cities by road and rail, or to leave that for the player to do.

Blue Monkey, I always say that everyone is welcome to mod my work beyond recognition if they'd like. That's why I post it here. As far as posting this, it will be a few days yet before I have the initial bugs out.
Then I'll post it sans units, tech tree or anything other than terrain modifications. The ball will then be in everyone else's court (not that I don't have alot of suggestions. . . ) Let me know if you find Tsunga's stuff.

Let me know if you find Tsunga's stuff.I think I've got the mushrooms. I also PMed and posted a request in the thread in case someone else has them.

Ok, last screenshots of the map showing a Vril city and Vril resource, and Asteroid Field.

Vril:

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/4283/vrilscreenpk9.jpg

Asteroids:

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/479/asteroidsscreenjt5.jpg


Tsuga's (not Tsunga - my bad) mushrooms would be a resource like the Vril, I would think.. .

Balthasar, just got your PM and decided to drop by before turning in for the night. Now looks like I will be kept awake all night jotting down ideas that will pop into my head from your inspirational work.

I've got to say that the moon terrain is very striking (beautiful).The concept overall is very imaginative and could make for a really original scenario.

How did you get so many looks from a limited terrain set?

Some suggestions
I like Blue's idea of including different planets covering the corners of the map but don't rework the map if it's too tricky. If you do go for that then Pellucidar and the Underground should be sealed off from outer space though by impassable land terrain so that you can only get there via Earth.

I would also suggest that England and Scotland be replaced by a representation of the World so we can incorporate more competing civs there (Nation States and Natives). It needn't be too large as 3 civs at least would be all that's needed: Europeans, Indiginous Tribes and Ancient Powers (Siam, China, India etc). Or alternatively bring in The Secret Evil Society from the original Steampunk mod idea.

I'm thinking a bit about the mechanics of the map in terms of gameplay. Obviously travel between the regions will be restricted to water-going transportation - I take it you use coast,sea and ocean tiles? If so travel can easily be separated by flagging units as Sink in Sea or Sink in Ocean. An initial plan would be that Travel Between Earth and the Moon & Mars is Oceanic Travel via spacecraft units. Travel Between Earth and Underworld (Sea Travel via submarine or tunneling machine). Underground and Pellucidar are contiguous regions but involve normal "water" travel.

The only downside is that one must come before the other i.e. Sea therefore we get contact between Earth and the Underworld before contact with outer space. This seems logical though. Also, any ocean going vessel will be able to travel between regions separated by sea - guess this is acceptable since ocean going craft are deemed to be more advanced. This is really exciting.

As for civs I like your suggestions and BM's but you should also include Xexots (akin to one of Earth's Bronze Age cultures) and Korsars (Corsairs/Pirates) in the Lost World.

If you're all in favour I can start thinking about designing some tech trees for this scenario and planning out unit lines etc. I think each culture group (region) should have specific tech trees for maximum flavour and replay factor.

Found it on my backup device.

I have Rhye's original files and another file called 'shroom crops' (mushroom irrigation). Just whistle if you need them.

with Balthasar's "go-ahead" I've been working out ideas for the "planets" version of a "lost worlds" map. This is so rough I wouldn't even call it a "proof of concept" yet. The posted image is 50% scale of what I'm actually working with.
thumbnail
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/5822/lostworlds021postph6.th.jpg (http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lostworlds021postph6.jpg)

The outliers are Barsoom, Luna, Amtor, & Mongo (for lack of another inspiration). On Earth the ellipse represents the underworld portion of the map & the bottom is Pellucidar. Proportions aren't finalized yet. The ellipse will probably get shifted south,; shrinking Pellucidar & leaving more room for the "surface" map. I'm also considering enlarging the planets relative to earth. But I want the Earth civilizations to predominate. It seems like the planets will have 1-2 civs each, so their available settlement area ought to be about the same as what 1-2 Earth civs would have access to.

Thanks, KA, for reminding me that Pellucidar is completely enclosed - sparking an idea for the Earth's surface. I envision a sort of world ocean encircling the outside of the lower hemisphere. The onion layer being roughly - a 1 - 2 tile band of sea + 1 tile of coast + impassable layer. There can be small valleys & bays with more varied terrain - room for Kong Island or Lemuria, for example.

My plan for dealing with aetheric flight is to use the Space + Seas LM solution outlined by Flamand & embryodead (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=273899). If I can cope with embryodead's method, there will be additional LM terrains to give the planets their own unique look, even though terrain values may be fairly standard.
While I envision the overall map to approach the maximum (362 x 362) I think it won't be too unwieldy. Earth's water bodies can be limited to coast/sea - then the planets won't be linkable by harbors. Hopefully that will avoid the "searching for trade routes" lag time. & ships that try to fly will fall off the edge of the earth & disappear (:lol:). Later in the tech tree there can be "spaceports".

I hope some others, like Hikaro, will comment on this as a direction to move the mod towards.

I really think the maps ought to have their own thread. King Arthur can contact one of the mods, like Plotinus, about the possibility of shifting the relevant posts.

EDIT: posted updated image to show Pellucidar. Whole underworld region (brown) has been shifted south as I discussed above. Magenta shows South Pole entrance to Hollow Earth. Green blob is possible location (but not shape) of Agartha.

This is all really great! :goodjob:

I also think I know how Balthasar has made the terrain look completely different for each area- with a little bit of trickery, and a lot of (I asume ;)) pain-in-the-arse c'n'p work, so, for example, the tundra->coast files will all show space terrain, whereas the grassland->coast will retain the original coast look! (Which I would never have the patience to do :))

This is our spot dedicated to map creation.

Post map ideas, images, game graphics (eg. terrain), works in progress etc here.

Mongo is as good a Planet X as anything and any mod is certainly improved by featuring camp aliens :D

I'm glad you will make it 362x362. 2 civs at least per region to make things competitive before you can travel to other regions.

I've PMd Sir Plot to ask him to move all map related posts to the new Map Creation Thread.

BM- did you miss the Tsuga graphics I uploaded on post 25? - 0 views since I posted them.

Cheers

I've finally posted the map here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=9452).

Virote, you're right. And it is a pain in the ass, but it comes out pretty.

"I approve!" -Ming

Making a usable world map that fits into this schema is pretty mind bending.

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/9454/lostworldsschema25rq8.png


Manipulations from basic projection:

North Polar Sea & North Atlantic distorted to flatten map
Shrank Africa & South America
South America, Africa, & Australasia are rotated relative to the central regions
Europe is enlarged - I'm tempted to enlarge England even further, & maybe Japan


What I like about it -

Industrial nations remain relatively close
Relative sizes reflect Victorian mind-set & relative world power
Expanded Atlantic/Pacific space allows for "lost islands"



But I'm not happy with it. Hopefully someone will suggest something ripping good. Preferably with a sketch.

BM - That's a difficult task considering the shape you have to play with. Here's a very handy site http://www.geometrie.tuwien.ac.at/karto/norm0005.html
where you can look at lots of different projections and tweak them. I'm quite fond of the top-down polar one #13 but it cuts out a lot of Africa and S America

Thanks for the link. As for the projection, I was already thinking of compressing S. America & Africa.

Speaking as a drooling-waiting-fan, I'd like to see 2 basic maps: a random/huge (I love the unpredictability of the resource and terrain distribution) and a Mars-like world.

The way I see it we have 3 ways forward: 1) a world map as per the original idea; 2) a scenario involving Balthasar's map and 3) a scenario involving Blue's expanded map with full Earth map and more planets. How best to proceed? It's not feasable to deal with all 3at once. Personally, I feel we should develop Balthasar's first. When Blue's map is ready it might be possible to port most of the tech tree. What do the rest of you think?

What do the rest of you think?

I don't understand that map. Would we have 3 maps at the same time!? :crazyeye::blush:

I vote for an earth map first; then the other two maps could probably be added with the trick of a separate tech line for the "outre" civs + the space related techs for Earth. Speaking for myself, if the "straight" version already existed, I'd be tempted to give it a go as far as trying an adaptation myself. Sort of a "Return of the Son of SteamPunk Rides Again!".

I don't understand that map. Would we have 3 maps at the same time!? :crazyeye::blush:

Jlvfr, I would be glad to explain anything you want to know about my map. It's intended to give the widest possible experience in a steampunk scenario: Martian maidens, undersea monsters, moonmen, molemen and dinosaurs. The concept has been used in other steampunk forums, in particular the popular Space:1889 web group, but also others. It could be fun, and I hope I get to see it fleshed out.

There is no conflict: there are plenty of earth maps, my map is ready for modding, and Blue Monkey's map isn't ready; if and when it's done, it would duplicate (upgrade from?) my map for the most part, adding mostly new races (of Venus).

In the end, since this is his group, it's King Arthur's decision which map he'd like to work on (it's good to be the King), so I support whatever he wants, and stand ready to help in any way I can.

The tech tree for human races has to be done first for any of these maps anyway, and the tech icons have been lovingly finished by Blue Monkey. I move we adjourn to the technology thread and ask whether King Arthur wants any help or unsolicited advice there first.

The tech tree for human races has to be done first for any of these maps anyway, and the tech icons have been lovingly finished by Blue Monkey. I move we adjourn to the technology thread and ask whether King Arthur wants any help or unsolicited advice there first.

Well I see the tech tree being quite different for human races depending on the map used. The world map is ideal for competing nation states and needs dealt with in a broader scope. The map with Britain is somewhat different and would be suited to competing small groups of individuals with narrower goals: Scientific Discovery/ Exploration: think League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Secret Societies of Evil, Bonkers Mad Aristocrats with Robot Butlers and other such stuff. Choice of map would affect everything from the building improvements, units and resources we would have in each scenario.

To be clear about where I stand, we should develop Balthasar's map into a scenario. Keep things deliberately small to start ~ 10 civs, 1era worth of techs for each culture group etc. Everything is more manageable that way and more likely to get completed. Ok I can forsee difficulties in getting some units: 4 armed green martians being one but we can take some artistic liberties.

Let's adjourn to the Tech Thread Gentlemen. Cigars and Brandy all round. All help and unsolicited advice welcome.

Let's adjourn to the Tech Thread Gentlemen. Cigars and Brandy all round. All help and unsolicited advice welcome.As Rudyard said, "There's peace in a Larranaga". That fellow I keep locked in the garret is so busy scribbling he won't even notice I'm gone. But, rather than Islay, I'll have a taste of Java with my Sumatra if it's all the same to you chaps.

:coffee::cowboy:

About civs for the Lost Worlds Map. Instead of Scotland and England how about League of Gentlemen led by Phileas Fogg and Secret Evil Society led by Professor Moriarty? There's possibly room for one or two more I would like city locations replaced with locations from fictional literature e.g. No. 7 Saville Row (residence of Mr. Fogg); 221b Baker Street (Holmes); Greystoke Estate (Tarzan - no idea where it was located though). If anyone can up with some more just post!

Well it's a bigass place. You'll notice I put Loch Ness and Roslyn on the map just to accommodate Ideas like this. (my original idea was to put a teleporter on an island in the lost world connected to Loch Ness, so that every once in a while a swimming dinosaur would cross over - problem was, teleporters don't work on water, and I'd risk getting a T-rex invasion of scotland) I like your idea though, of different factions rather than different countries competing, but we want to keep the number down for game speed consideration. Here are the considerations from the map maker's point of view: each faction should have at least one base on the northern (western) and southern (eastern ) coasts, so that they can build the Nautilus and Rocketship, respectively. I intended that some resource could be strategically placed near each to keep the AI from trying to build say, a rocket in Loch Ness. I intended that airstrips and teleporters would become important in the late game, to save time. As for factions, the storyline can be outlandish as we want, like having Victor Frankenstein and Count Dracula (evil faction, hereafter known as EF) set up shop in Scottish castles. Put Nemo (GF) and Davy Jones (EF) on coastal bases, put Greystoke (GF) on an estate in southern england. As for the rest, I need to do some research. . .

I'll be ready to do some map tweaking as soon as I'm done remodding the terrain of South East Asia for Blue Monkey - that project should be done in a few days, but it's why you haven't heard from me this week. I almost dropped everything to do a full scale Mars map in honor of the Pheonix project, but I've so far resisted the urge.

Postscript: there is another way to do this that could be MUCH simpler: Leave the Scots and the English exactly where they are, but as AI only, and put the faction "cities" in and around them. Have to get on with the locals to function is all. The map is big enough to accommodate that. Then have the factions' city names be things like "Davy Jones' Tavern" "Professor Moriarty's Academy". These cities could be either built by the factions themselves (AI would not be able to build settlers) or pre-placed (which would allow us to use the famous Resource is City trick to make each look unique - I would enjoy seeing "Frankenstein's Castle" in the highlands). The faction cities could each have a resource that allows a unit: Frankenstein's Monster or Mr. Hyde, etc..
And then we will have successfully merged the Steampunk and Superhero mods altogether. I'm liking this idea more and more.. . .

I like those ideas too Balthasar. :D

....But what about Dr. Fu Manchu?!

Fu Manchu would be entirely appropriate since he was supposedly based on criminal characters found in the Limestone borough of London - London's Chinatown - and figures prominently in LOEG II.

Another interesting villain is the mysterious Jean Diable (aka John Devil), created by Paul Feval. John Devil was the world's first supervillain in what was arguably the world's first detective novel in 1861 - thirty years before Conan Doyle created Holmes and Moriarty! JD's plot to use armored warships to free Napoleon and conquer India also makes it the first techno-thriller in popular literature. John Devil also appears in LOEG: The Black Dossier working together with Moriarty. Feval also invented the London crime organization the Gentlemen of the Night, a branch of the international organization known as the Blackcoats.

I don't suppose Ming would start in "space"?

Continued from a different thread:

Since I have never workded with leaderheads, it might take me a while to get it done, but will give it my best shot. And I will let you know if of any bugs that I find. Might be hard to get to the Moon, though. Have you ever heard of Space:1889 by the way?

In the readme file is a list of leaderheads that I used to set this up. If you download and install these files you shouldn't have to change anything in the editor.
For more information, you want to read this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=203465) tutorial about adding leaderheads. And note that I made no changes to the text files, so you'll have to do that yourself to fully integrate the leaderheads into the mod. I hope this helps you.

As for being hard to get to the Moon: It requires an ocean-going vessel, so you have two choices; either find and add a rocketship unit (as we will eventually do in the Steampunk Mod) or go in a Galleon, like Baron Munchausen. On this map the sea is the "deep sea" and is supposed to be only able to be traversed by the Nautilus (and of course all of the units from Atlantis). You can deal with this as you'd like, only be sure that you can carry enough units, because the only way into the underground world is to conquer at least one of the undersea cities, which allow access to the underground tunnels.

Yes, I have heard of Space:1889 and it was one of the inspirations for this map.

Keep an eye on this Steampunk Forum for more ideas that will be coming up soon regarding techs, units, leaderheads and Civilopedia entries. Add the Steampunk Interface for more atmosphere. You could learn alot by building up your map as we do ours; and by all means feel free to comment: we live for feedback.

P.S. Since I did the leaderheads, R8XFT (Rob) suggested using Catherine the Great as a leaderhead for england, as she looks like Victoria. I like that idea.

I don't suppose Ming would start in "space"?

Maybe an island big enough to hold 3-4 cities, with the capital being size 12 at start? Give him (sorry, Him!!!) the techs to cross the sea.

I don't suppose Ming would start in "space"?

I would save Ming for a sequel to this mod: BlueMonkey's "Outer Worlds" map, perhaps. . .

I would save Ming for a sequel to this mod: BlueMonkey's "Outer Worlds" map, perhaps. . .

Sequel called "What happened when our steamspaceship took off" :lol:

@jlvfr and Moosezilla. Yes Blue is working on a map that includes the planet Mongo, Venus, Mars etc. I agree with Balthasar that he should be reserved for that map.

@Balthasar. I did notice the resemblence between Catherine and Victoria. I think we should amalgamate Scotland and England into one AI-only civ: Great Britain. What do you think? That leaves 3 factions for the "Earth" area: League of Gentlemen, Secret Evil Society and GB.

@HT. Fu Manchu will be in just not as head of the Evil faction (might change depending on what leaderhead we can come up with for Moriarty). In fact the more characters we can up with the better as the plan is to include a lot character units in the mod in the same way as EFZI2.

I think we should amalgamate Scotland and England into one AI-only civ: Great Britain. What do you think? That leaves 3 factions for the "Earth" area: League of Gentlemen, Secret Evil Society and GB.

I'm all in favor except for one thing: the reason I divided the island in the first place was that I ran out of city slots. Can we just reassign the Scottish cities to Great Britain without penalty? Otherwise you, as King of the Britons, will have to decide which British and Scottish Cities are to be eliminated. No club rivalries are allowed to be considered when making your decision!

Also, we should consider the names "Gentlemen of the Night" or "Blackcoats" (see discussion a few posts back) as the name of the criminal organization, since these names have solid pedigree, and I could whip up a nifty (and annotated!) Civilopedia entry for either one.

I'm almost certain you can reassign any number of cities to another civ up to the maximum city limit. The starting city names don't even have to be in the city list unless you want the convenience of plotting them out directly via editor without having to rename each city.

I think Blackcoats would make a nice unit name but less so for the faction name. And I think Gentlemen of the Night is too close to League of Gentlemen for the good faction. I need to think about that one.

"Brotherhood of Shadows"?

Does no one like the name Secret Evil Society then? Tell me, I can take it :) (The name actually comes from the Civ 2 Jules Verne scenario).

Maybe we need a vote- I'm a democratic kind of guy.

A. Blackcoats
B. Gentlemen of the Night
C. Brotherhood of Shadows
D. Secret Evil Society
E. Hilary Clinton ;)

I like the Secret Evil Society. There's just a Victorian ring to it...

Thank you for your Vote Virote.

I like the Secret Evil Society. There's just a Victorian ring to it...It would sound even more evilly Victorian were it translated into French.

Quick trawl of the Online Translators
Société mauvaise secrète
Méchante Société Secrète
La Société Diabolique secrète - my favourite!

Their plan is to 1. turn Britain into a republic, 2. take over the world, and 3. make the British speak French! :scared:


EDIT: Although that storyline looks kinda like a pre-Victorian, Napoleonic-type storyline...

La Société Diabolique secrète:thumbsup:

I would vote, as I said, for the Black Coats, aka, the Gentlemen of the Night because of it's Victorian pedigree. But since we've embarked on creating our own mythology, allow me to add my own neo-Victorian flourish:

"La Société Diabolique Secrète (The Secret Evil Society): originally founded by elite members of Les Habits Noirs (the Black Coats) in France, it's symbol, and calling card, was a black rose. When the Black Coats were brought to England by the master criminal John Devil in the 1830's under the nome de plume The Gentlemen's Society, the Société Diabolique acted as an invisible 'board of directors' of the group. Some years later Professor Moriarty resurrected and rebuilt the group and during this time it was often, and erroneously, called The Black Rose Society or The Black Rose. Because this elite group was known only (or more accurately, suspected to exist) by certain members of Scotland Yard, it's existence has not been chronicled in popular literature, although some members of the group have become known to the public by the infamy of their individual misdeeds. Even less is known of the actual activities of the Société, save for the fact that they have always recruited only the créme de la créme of the criminal world, so that its members are invariably the most evil, treacherous, dangerous, and talented criminal minds of their time."

Voila!?

Looks like a proper 'pedia entry to me! By the by, there's an "old school" pub in Boston, Mass. called "The Black Rose" that has vague associations with early anarchists.

Great writing there Balthasar and a fantastic start to the civilopedia. Fancy doing some more entries?

Great writing there Balthasar and a fantastic start to the civilopedia. Fancy doing some more entries?

I'd be happy to.

Edit: I've begun putting these in the Civilizations thread here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6894243&postcount=53).

Been laying around the last three days fighting a summer cold & fever. When I've been coherent enough (not trying to close the drinkable yogurt with the aspirin cap) I've been reading Vandermeer's SP anthology & listening to Vernian Process. So, while recouping today I had a breakthrough on the Earth part of the "Other Worlds" map. Here's version 3. I think at this scale there's room for most of the civs in the original post, minus a few for the planetary civs.

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/1301/schema3previewuz6.png

Main changes:

The Southern Underworld is shrunk a bit, but Pellucidar remains the same size.
Agartha is moved to the Boreal region.
Many parts of the map are out of proportion - England is quite prominent, for example, & Africa is foreshortened. I'm aiming for a sort of "world leadership = larger" idea. Japan is important because of their important contributions in the realm of automata.
Had to sacrifice the Pacific for the Atlantic connection. Alaska to Kamchatka is only doable "over the Pole".
There's room for some remnants of Mu (Nan Madol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nan_Madol)?), Dilmun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilmun), Skull Island (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_Island), & even an island I think of as a cross between Kôr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilmun), Adamawara & Nevèrÿon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neveryon).
Barsoom & Amtor are more distant from Earth, and are about 150% their previous size
Luna & Mongo are smaller than before.


Here's a larger version with an overlain grid for those who want to get a sense of the game scale for various regions. It's roughly 210 tiles across by 260 down.

thumbnail
http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/3572/schema3gridpreviewfo0.th.jpg (http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=schema3gridpreviewfo0.jpg)

What little I have been able to look over due to my Extremely SLOW Dial Up connection, there are some very interesting things you are all putting together here. Concerning the Name "La Société Diabolique Secrète"...how about just "League of Diabolical Men"? Is there really a need to state "secret" in their name? Perhaps I am omitting the Flavor that is desired... :)

What little I have been able to look over due to my Extremely SLOW Dial Up connection, there are some very interesting things you are all putting together here. Concerning the Name "La Société Diabolique Secrète"...how about just "League of Diabolical Men"? Is there really a need to state "secret" in their name? Perhaps I am omitting the Flavor that is desired... :)

Dude, pony up for the broadband - it's better value than socks! Read back just a few posts from here and you'll see how it develops. Actually, in conversations I have with group members, we call it the Evil Secret Society or ESS. The good guys are the League of Gentlemen, or LOG.

To catch you up, there are actually three mods in development here, all being overseen by King Arthur, who is the Group Leader:

The Lost Worlds is set in the Victorian Age (1837-1900, roughly) and covers the same sort of territory found in the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen and Space: 1889. It leans heavily on Jules Verne, Edgar Rice Burroughs and A Conan Doyle for inspiration, but includes many characters that appear in the fiction of that day. I am project director, but everyone's in on the act; Blue Monkey did some beautiful Tech Icons for us, and King Arthur is about ready with the Tech Tree and Unit List.

The Other Worlds project, (not really named by Blue Monkey yet) is the "sequel" and covers the early 20th century, (1890-1950?) with some overlap. If I understand it correctly, it picks up where the Lost Worlds leaves off, taking us to Venus and Mongo, and includes Flash Gordon, Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, George Orwell, etc.
Blue Monkey is the project director, and as you can see above, will have a beautiful and ambitious map for us to play. :goodjob:

Steampunk: Earth (the prequel) will be set in a whole-earth map. Not much development yet: King Arthur is project director for this one.

I'm sure there will be lots of overlaps on these (airships, mystics, strange contraptions), and we welcome lots of participation, with map ideas, unit ideas, graphics ideas and just general kibbitzing happening in the various threads. We're currently looking for Unit Makers most of all.

I think that covers it.

Balthasar... Thanks for the Update but as for High Speed Internet, you are assuming that I have an Option. I have dealt with SLOW Dial Up for 12 Years and it is NOT available for me to get any High Speed service where I live.

I have many things I would like to Upload that I have done but SLOW speed prevents my desire to try. It requires about 2 minutes just to load a page for the this site. As for Larger Graphics that are uploaded to the Threads...that requires far too long to mess with.

I wish you success and Good Luck with your endeavors concerning this Game and Be Happy you have High Speed Internet to do it with :)

P. S., I could give you a few "pointers" concerning any .pcx file for the game IF you are interested...all in the details.

The Other Worlds project, (not really named by Blue Monkey yet) is the "sequel" and covers the early 20th century, (1890-1950?) with some overlap. If I understand it correctly, it picks up where the Lost Worlds leaves off, taking us to Venus and Mongo, and includes Flash Gordon, Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, George Orwell, etc.
Blue Monkey is the project director, and as you can see above, will have a beautiful and ambitious map for us to play.I don't envision this version of the SP mod moving technology any further forward from steam than Tesla - steam-powered tesla-cannon armed juggernauts are scary enough. Actually, I picture it more as culminating with the Belle Époque (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belle_%C3%89poque) & the Great War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_War). Great War in this case possibly involving more than one world. A "Scramble for Planets" rather than a "Scramble for Africa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scramble_for_Africa)". The Great Game (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Game) writ large. I chose that culmination because it matches up Stableford's trilogy that ends with Carnival of Destruction (http://www.amazon.com/Carnival-Destruction-Brian-Stableford/dp/0786703334/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217135737&sr=8-1). Having just previously read Difference Engine it made me really think about the tipping point from a steam utopia to a punk dystopia.

Mongo is a bit anachronistic. I felt that Barsoom made a better, playable, civ than Wells' Martians (although some of their machinery might be an interesting late-era UU), yet there needed to be at least one of the "celestial" civs capable of countering Earth spacefarers with their aetheric flying machines. Plus, Ming & Fu Manchu have one of those "separated at birth" things going on. I never really bought him as an "Evil Oriental" either. So, I thought, what if the hidden puppet master were off-planet. I also liked the idea from the movie of minor inhabited moons (my very first SF reading, at about age 8, was the Mushroom Planet series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wonderful_Flight_to_the_Mushroom_Planet)).

If there's Pellucidar & Barsoom, then there's room for Amtor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_series). Here's a small image of the look of the terrain (An Amazing Stories back cover):

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/892/amazingvenusfr0.png

It didn't seem fair not to have at least a hint of Arne Saknussemm's route, so for the true 19th century vision of a Hollow Earth I needed to get a map that let me have 2 underworlds, Agartha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agartha) via the north entry & Pellucidar in the south.


I do, on the other hand have ideas for another, separate mod project encompassing the whole secret history of the world, with eras going roughly Atlantean/Lemurian, Hermetic/Rosicrucian, SteamPunk, and Retrofuture/Raygun Gothic.

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/8907/googiemf3.png

Well you still didn't name it. All kidding aside, I look forward to seeing these ideas develop, as you seem to have put a great deal of thought into it. I will certainly be willing to contribute whatever I can.
I like the second mod idea as well, and see alot of possibility in it.

I guess I've always been a sucker for retrofuture. My father was a Sci-Fi fan since childhood, so I grew up with Amazing Stories and BiggerLittle Books close at hand. Though my taste in Sci-Fi developed from that to Asimov to Heinlein to Harlen Ellison and beyond, I still have a soft spot for good old ray-gun Space Opera.

P.S. you are the king of images.

Well you still didn't name it.something something Planetary Romance something something
or
Lost Worlds (Gadzooks! That one's taken!)
or
A Tesliad (in opposition to the Edisonade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edisonade))
or
The Great (Space) Race
or
Sceptre & Orbs
or
The Strange Case of the Round-Robin Double-Elimination Name-The-Mod Thread
All kidding aside, I look forward to seeing these ideas develop, as you seem to have put a great deal of thought into it. I will certainly be willing to contribute whatever I can.Actually, knowing I work so slowly, I'm hoping both the straight, Earth-only version & your Lost Worlds version come to fruition first. My intention is to tweak rather than reinvent.I like the second mod idea as well, and see alot of possibility in it.It's one of those back burner things. There was a great tv program called Meeting of Minds (http://www.steveallen.com/television_pioneer/meeting_of_minds.htm). Then too much coffee & late nights thinking about a conversation between Athanasius Kircher, Hagbard Celine, Bob Dobbs, Frank Zappa, Thomas Mandeville, et al, that has Eco'd down through the years... I guess I've always been a sucker for retrofuture. My father was a Sci-Fi fan since childhood, so I grew up with Amazing Stories and BiggerLittle Books close at hand. Though my taste in Sci-Fi developed from that to Asimov to Heinlein to Harlen Ellison and beyond, I still have a soft spot for good old ray-gun Space Opera.I'm just about the perfect age for a "scientifical romance" fanboy. On the third Sunday in July, the year I was 12, I ran outside to stare at the moon for 19 minutes straight, having just seen a very blurry tv image from Tranquility. Around the same time period I got to see a Rocket Belt demonstration, and actually stood next to two debutantes & two swinging bachelors sitting in a Ford convertible that had been adapted to float on a cushion of air. Unfortunately it only moved around as fast as you could give it a push to get it going.

And what an age of space opera we've got now, between Ian Banks, Alastair Reynolds, and others of that ilk. On the gripping hand, we live in a Night Fly (http://www.amazon.com/Nightfly-Donald-Fagen/dp/B000002KXV/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1217145613&sr=8-1), Where's My Jet Pack? (http://www.amazon.com/Wheres-My-Jetpack-Amazing-Science/dp/1596911360/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217144825&sr=1-1) world. P.S. you are the king of images.Thank you. Like Picasso, I had a Blue Period. The occupation listed on my public profile is not an idle boast. My (incomplete & abandoned) dissertation was along the lines of "cross-cultural semiotic analysis of concrete initiation spaces to develop a schema for the design of virtual educational environments". If that's too scary to parse, think of it as connecting the dots between Songlines & Cathedrals in order to wield Second Life.

Interesting. I never read your public profile before. Turns out you, I, and King Arthur are all about the same age. You and I both like King Crimson (I suspect we both like alot of the same music), and apparently Umberto Eco. You might like this tidbit: I've met and had conversations with Peter Max and Adrian Belew (both by accident) and was given a copy of The Foundation Trilogy by Roger Dean (who did the Yes covers). How all that translates into a common interest in Civ and Steampunk might be the subject of a dissertation in itself.

7Ronin, who sadly is inactive now, is another member of our club. I know you've had the experience of younger people disbelieving that you could have done "all that" simply because they can't imagine a longer life. I understand the ennui of Louis Wu, although I don't share it. I suspect that you'd be another one (like me) whose "What excuse can I come up with for these weird units I like" mod would be very interesting to play.

As to Dean: I'd love to see some"Dean" terrain. & that great worldshard towing space frigate ought to be in the SP mod.

No Excuses!

No Excuses!So which existing or planned mod's internal logic would justify the inclusion of this unit (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=284797) as well as these (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=204849)?

Actually, the beaver worker might work for the Mahar in the Lost Worlds Mod....

The point was a mod, other than an "excuse for including all the weird units I like" mod - since Moosezilla wants no excuses.

Uh... oh. Okay. I didn't understand the 'no excuses' remark in the first place, nor could I figure what it was referring to. While I do appreciate Moosezilla's enthusiasm for this project, he needn't worry. Lost Worlds will have plenty of unusual units, and for legitimate reasons!

Sorry for my inherent obtuseness but what I meant was no excuses are needed. It goes along with my overall strategy of "I don't know notin'!" (first postulated by Sgt. Shultz) This makes ftf opponents wonder...

Sorry for my inherent obtuseness but what I meant was no excuses are needed. It goes along with my overall strategy of "I don't know notin'!" (first postulated by Sgt. Shultz) This makes ftf opponents wonder...Don't worry about being abstruse. We need a good OT breather every once in a while.

;) :coffee:

@Moosezilla - just to reiterate Blue Monkey's sentiments: post more!

Same goes for all you lurkers and infrequent posters. I know I don't get around to replying much but input is always welcome and this scenario is very much alive.

I thought I'd just drop in to say this is one of my favourite forums, even though I'm not much of a fiction reader myself. I do have a slight soft spot for Steampunk, though :)

Not sure if any of you are familiar with Arrowsmith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrowsmith_%28comics%29), or if it's even SteamPunk, but here's a scan of the map that may provide some food for thought. Apparently Lawrence Watt-Evans was hired to develop a thousand years of back story.

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http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/9494/arrowsmithmaphy0.th.jpg (http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=arrowsmithmaphy0.jpg)

Pellucidar isn't finished yet, but features prehistoric trees to go with the Dinosaurs.Wandering around late one night I bumped into these (virtually). Looking at their surrounding terrain (marshy) it struck me (p.i.) that they might make an interesting forest/jungle for both Pellucidar & Amtor. They're a species of baobob peculiar to Madagascar.

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http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5690/planetsforestyd8.th.jpg (http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=planetsforestyd8.jpg)

Despite a couple of hours worth of setbacks - both my main graphics programs repeatedly crashing because of large clipboards - I've got a new version of the "Sceptre & Orbs" map design. The map will have a few things that don't show here - Hawaii, Easter Island, Skull Island, & some sort of Lemurian remnant in the Indian Ocean, for example.* If it passes muster then I'm ready to move on to the slow process of building the actual map.

The first image is at 25% scale:
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http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/5236/schema4ngpostrv2.th.jpg (http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=schema4ngpostrv2.jpg)

for those who want to get a feel for the hugeness of the map here's a 50% scale version with a tile grid superimposed. Warning: the image is very large.
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http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/280/scema4gridpostai1.th.jpg (http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scema4gridpostai1.jpg)



* I've also been pondering the idea of putting a couple of those legendary African seas on the map. Then maybe Mokèlé-mbèmbé (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mokele-mbembe) would be happy enough to make an appearance. Like this, for instance:
thumbnail
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/6370/africa1uz0.th.png (http://img181.imageshack.us/my.php?image=africa1uz0.png)

http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/6276/sceptreminikj1.png

This is a very rough & ready biq. Basically just a quick conversion via bmp2bic & maptweaker. No terrain details at all yet. I'm only posting it for feedback as to basic size of the whole map & the individual planets / Earthly continents. coastlines will definitely be changed.

My tentative plan is to limit Earth, Amtor, & Mongo oceans to the "coastal" terrain. I will use/adapt/modify something like Lukrees Space Terrain (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=34138) so that "seas" are atmosphere & oceans are "space". I know that this will cause the quirk of the arid planets having coasts. The only alternative I can see would be to use embryodead's scheme for creating LM terrains with a hex editor.

Here's the zipped biq.
188315

That's massively impressive Blue. I like the way the Earth turned out - plenty room for exploration of Darkest Africa :D

You can use the MapTweaker program (in the Utilities section of the forums) to adjust individual tiles to get the effect you're after.

Wow! Maaaassive! Just like I like to played it! :goodjob:

But where are poor Greenland and Australia? :confused:

That's massively impressive Blue. I like the way the Earth turned out - plenty room for exploration of Darkest AfricaThank you! What do you think of my idea ( a couple of posts above) of giving Africa some small interior seas/swamps for a bit of "lost worlds" territory?


You can use the MapTweaker program (in the Utilities section of the forums) to adjust individual tiles to get the effect you're after.From this stage I prefer working in the C3C Editor. I'm more comfortable making local adjustments of several types concurrently in it, because I can better see what it will look like during play.


But where are poor Greenland and Australia? Greenland is the curvy bit NE of Canada - at the same latitude as Scotland. Australia is on the extreme Eastern edge of the map, just below the equator. Those are two of the several parts of the world that were reduced in size relative to areas like England. Size & position = relative importance, not geography, in the mod.

Size & position = relative importance, not geography, in the mod.

....well, you just lost the Argentinian vote. I really like what you did with this map. And I like the idea of an African "interior" too, with plenty of beasts, and Livingston, I presume.

Greenland is the curvy bit NE of Canada - at the same latitude as Scotland. Australia is on the extreme Eastern edge of the map, just below the equator. Those are two of the several parts of the world that were reduced in size relative to areas like England. Size & position = relative importance, not geography, in the mod.

Let's hope no aussie reads this! :lol:

....well, you just lost the Argentinian vote.Well, the Euro-Argentinians are probably happy to be an important part of the Empire of Brasyl. The indigenes probably are unhappy both there or with the alternative of submission to Tikal. Let's hope no aussie reads this! :lol:No worries, mate! The sun never sets on the Anglian Empire! Victoria rules the orbs!
There are 4 North american civs. The Australian part of the Empire alone has about equal area to any of them. And I like the idea of an African "interior" too, with plenty of beasts, and Livingston, I presume.Room for Livingston, Burton, Roosevelt, Patterson & Ryall, Custer, Kurtz, H. Paget F., Holly & Vincey, D'Arnot, & Cordery. As well as their respective McGuffins. I really like what you did with this map. Now there's only the small formality of placing actual terrain, including LMs & solving the "Aetheric terrain" issues, together with the balance of resource placement. Civ start locations should be trivial.

Pellucidar isn't finished yet, but features prehistoric trees to go with the Dinosaurs.Wandering around late one night I bumped into these (virtually). Looking at their surrounding terrain (marshy) it struck me (p.i.) that they might make an interesting forest/jungle for both Pellucidar & Amtor. They're a species of baobob peculiar to Madagascar.

thumbnail
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5690/planetsforestyd8.th.jpg (http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=planetsforestyd8.jpg)

Okay, Balthasar. Please make a "lost worlds forest/jungle" terrain set for all of our benefit. Besides the Madagascar baobobs, there is the unique flora of Socotra Island, especially the Dragon's Blood Tree (http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2008/09/most-alien-looking-place-on-earth.html).

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/7323/3453758494b53efab1evn8.jpg

The linked site has many photos & links to the wikipedia article with links to further photo pages.

Okay, Balthasar. Please make a "lost worlds forest/jungle" terrain set for all of our benefit.

Well, all of the Pellucidar graphics are available right now in the Lost Worlds Map download. I'd like to do a complete prehistoric set one of these days, but right now I'm busier than a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs. I've got a Western US trees set about half done, and an African set lined up after that, so it might be a minute before I get to it. The last set of buildings for the Lost World Mod is three-quarters done, and I have every intention of finishing that before I do anything else - but, thank you for your interest.

Well, all of the Pellucidar graphics are available right now in the Lost Worlds Map download. I'd like to do a complete prehistoric set one of these days, but right now I'm busier than a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs. I've got a Western US trees set about half done, and an African set lined up after that, so it might be a minute before I get to it. The last set of buildings for the Lost World Mod is three-quarters done, and I have every intention of finishing that before I do anything else - but, thank you for your interest.You're like me, plenty of irons, plenty of fire, just not enough hands. I'm patient, since my own work is so slow. I do reserve the right to remind you, further on down the road.

There's room for some remnants of Mu (Nan Madol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nan_Madol)?), Dilmun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilmun), Skull Island (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_Island), & even an island I think of as a cross between Kôr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilmun), Adamawara & Nevèrÿon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neveryon).


Hiya,

I don't know the current status of the map development part of this project, or if you're open to suggestions or anything, but looking at the map I see that there's room for R'lyeh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%27lyeh) somewhere off the southeastern coast of South America -- if it fits in with the game concept.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/R%27lyeh_map.png

I love the way this is shaping up -- really looking forward to playing it!

I don't know the current status of the map development part of this project...There's Balthasar's "Lost Worlds" map which I believe is currently becoming an actual biq, there is my own "Sceptre & Orbs" which is at the stage of placing & fine-tuning terrain, and there are rumors of an Earth-only map which I believe KingArthur can best comment on.
:coffee: :smoke:if you're open to suggestions or anything ...if it fits in with the game concept.It seems you have answered your own question..

there's room for R'lyeh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%27lyeh)
.
:nono:
TATTMWNMTK

:hide::mwaha: