So im more or less comfortable winning/putting up a good fight on the majority of my Immortal games, now im just trying new strategies out and get a better feel for the game. (just finished up finals in the states and my parents live overseas in Dubai now, hence I have wayyy too much free time to do nothing).

Anyway, just gave Elizabeth a shot to see what I could do with financial / philisophical. (Im actually in a remarkably poor spot this game, tho I could probably recover, but please ignore that.)

Basically, the bureaucracy is making room for the expanding bureaucracy just about sums it up.

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/5904/londonue8.jpg

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/5904/londonue8.th.jpg (http://img377.imageshack.us/my.php?image=londonue8.jpg)

(i figure one of those links should work, couldnt get the attachment to work/too slow out here).

I really doubt this is any sort of record, but for 175 ad I thought that capitol was rather impressive for a first Elizabeth attemt.

Basically, the strategy Im deciding on, is to make 3 gp/production cities, and everything else to be financial cottage spams. Didn't quite pull it off this game, but with a little tweaking I think I may be capable of some pretty insane economies mid game with Elizabeth.

Have any other players attempted to combine Elizabeth's seemingly mutual exclusive traits?

They're not really mutually exclusive you just can't use both empire-wide. Her combination of traits means you can run a hybrid economy very effectively and develop a city for what it is best at instead of what you would like it to be. At the very least any CE should have at least 1 gpfarm and churning out those gp faster and more overall is great. If you go primarily SE (based on the map), getting the additional commerce on tiles, including coastal seafood is handy as well.

I also like the idea a lot of a transition economy where you go all out SE early and transition to an all out CE later. SE for warmongering/expansion and CE late once you are aiming for the stars. Liz is great for this and her UU is very timely to finish wiping clear your continent.

Of course I don't play at immortal ;)

I also like the idea a lot of a transition economy where you go all out SE early and transition to an all out CE later. SE for warmongering/expansion and CE late once you are aiming for the stars. Liz is great for this and her UU is very timely to finish wiping clear your continent.
This is how I like playing Liz as well (although I dont play on Immortal either, heh), she is a Poster Child for the "Evolving Hybrid Economy".

They're not really mutually exclusive you just can't use both empire-wide. Her combination of traits means you can run a hybrid economy very effectively and develop a city for what it is best at instead of what you would like it to be. At the very least any CE should have at least 1 gpfarm and churning out those gp faster and more overall is great. If you go primarily SE (based on the map), getting the additional commerce on tiles, including coastal seafood is handy as well.

I also like the idea a lot of a transition economy where you go all out SE early and transition to an all out CE later. SE for warmongering/expansion and CE late once you are aiming for the stars. Liz is great for this and her UU is very timely to finish wiping clear your continent.

Of course I don't play at immortal ;)

Yea, I havn't attempted a transition economy yet, (none of my games ever seem to go past 1600 ad, Ill usually either know im going to win or know im about to get owned). But yea, Im going to try another game and see what I can do with some liz redcoats and stock exchanges.

One of the great benefits of financial leaders is that they don't actually NEED to spam cottages. They can get by on alot less, and can make a very good living from the sea, as well. Particularly with Elizabeth, her philosophical trait works great with specialists, so food development may be more important than cottages in the long run.

@Priah:
The capital looks great. :goodjob:
You should take a shot at the latest immortal university (Charlemagne, Fractal map). It is very interesting.

It is widely agreed that in order to beat deity (or immortal) you need a leader that has either philosophical or financial. Having both together is really awesome. As to not being able to apply both traits empire-wide: Elizabeth is still a cottage-economy player, it's just that her GP farm is that much more effective, and she can construct universities much sooner.

It is widely agreed that in order to beat deity (or immortal) you need a leader that has either philosophical or financial.
Not so sure about that...... (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=267595)

On issue....

Phi/Fin are not mutually exclusive... in fact like it was already hinted you can run some cities in specialist mode and others in cottage mode taking advantage of both traits ( or simply a beuro cap with cottages, a GP farm for the GP generation, and the rest only making units to conquer the world ;) )

I play Elisabeth mostly lately.

Her traits are great for science, commerce approach. You are vulnerable in early phases though.

Philosophical means you can go for early library, install two scientists and get to academy early. Your capital is ideal with some production, some good food and the rest are cottages. You mainly work cottages and food tiles and leave out production tiles and put what little production you have into research. If you're building a wonder or units you work less cottages or have less scientists and work the mines.

Ideal wonders are Great Library, Pyramids, they are a killer combo with philosophic trait, bureaucracy, representation, pacifism and couple of scientists and Oxford.

This means that your tech rate should be great and you get first to tech that unlock even greater potential: Bureaucracy, Philosophy, Education, Liberalism.

Once you get there you can go on rampage with readcoats.

Starting strategy: You need to research techs to leverage traits ASAP and make decision whether you're going to build pyramids or not (depends on stone, difficulty, production and military threats). They delay your academy and start but make up for it with represenation.

research food enabling techs, pottery, then other worker techs, then writing. Build two workers before settler, make cottages ASAP and start working them. On higher difficulty you will probably have to research archery unless you have bronze or horses nearby. If you don't barbs cause problems before you can research Iron working. While pyramids are optional, Great Library is crucial, so plan for it, usually it's more optimal to go literature before metal casting. If you have religion and monotheism tech switch to organised if it won't cause diplomatic problems.

On higher difficulty you can treat your early start as OCC, maybe make one city to get resources. Even if you have no metals, you can be first to gunpowder on emperor. In multiplayer you need to grab a bit of territory but you won't be able to grab as much if you focus on library, cottages and great library.

The drawbacks are: Initially due to lots of work on cottages and researching upper side of tech tree, you might not see the metals and be without them.

The benefit is that if you're left alone during early phase the sinergy of financial, early academy, mature cottages, bureaucracy, settled scientists or bulbed techs gets you on top of tech curve by the gunpowder period where you can become a real threat.

In multiplayer it doesn't matter if your neighbour has one or two more cities and comparable number of units if you have early higher production due to bureaucracy and your units are one tech era ahead of his.