Disclaimer: This is a duffer's guide, which means that all the advice herein is only rated for Prince and below. I cannot vouch for its validity on Monarch and above because I only play Monarch if I want to learn stuff by losing. That being said, since I lose equally well with all leaders on Monarch, it may have some validity.

Basic Info:

Charlemagne is Protective and Imperialistic, he starts with Hunting and Mysticism, his UU is a Courthouse with a hefty extra reduction in maintenance, and his UU is a Pikeman with +100% vs Melee. Looking at each of these things individually:

Protective: Free CG1 and Drill 1 for Archery and Gunpowder Units. Cheap Walls and Castles.

What Protective generally means is that you get fairly excited when Monty or Shaka is next door, as they'll blow all their time pointlessly trying to attack your cities, and later in the game, you can Draft the world into submission. I mention this to forestall 89000000 posts about how Protective sucks and/or is great.

Imperialistic: Bonus to Settler Production and Great General production. Used to expand early and war afterwards.

Hunting: Allows your workers to hook up Deer, Elephants, and Furs; a somewhat sparse list, but does include a food resource, a hammer resource, and a commerce resource. Hunting leads to Archery and Animal Husbandry

Mysticism: Allows your cities to build Monuments and enables the building of Stonhenge. Leads to the various religious techs and also to Masonry.

Rathaus: Available with Code of Laws. This thing enables huge empires at high efficiency, as well as (I believe) reducing the cost of corporations in the late game. Arguably one of the stronger UBs in the game.

Landsneckt: Don't be fooled by the +100% vs Melee; the most common defenders in their era are Longbowmen, and these UUs have a weaker base strength than Macemen. Still, they are excellent stack protectors when correctly promoted.

Now, the big question: how do all these things work together?

Disclaimer number two: As always, the hard and fast rule of Civ is play the map. Once this principle is understood, these are the general guidelines I've found for Charlemagne after playing him an awful lot.

The Early Game: Breed Like A Rabbit
Charlemagne is:
A) 1 tech away from Protective Archers;
B) Given a bonus to Settler production;
C) Capable of building Monuments right from the start;
D) One tech away from cheap walls; and
E) A man with a Scout.

This means your early game should be focused on Land-grab. Catherine is better at grabbing land, but she can't hold it nearly as well as Charlemagne can. Use your scout to find the right city sites, and then start pumping out the archers and Settlers. New cities can build Monuments first if you need the border pop, Walls first or second if you need defense, and then most likely Workers, because if you're doing this properly your economy's going to be dragging through the primitive sewer.

Techwise, I generally recommend a worker tech to hook up whatever's nearest, then Archery for escorts, then more worker techs. A few specific notes below:

1) You're Protective. Only go for early Bronze Working if you are in a position to make real use of Slavery; otherwise, it can wait.
2) Along the same lines, even CR Swords have a hard time making it past CG2 Drill 1 Archers behind a Wall, even if said Wall is not on a hill. You therefore don't need Bronze Working/AH early for Barbarian defense, since your cultural expansion should be outstripping your tile improvements if you're really focusing on it.
3) Early religion is up to you, but I discourage it. Even though you start with Mysticism, your economy's going to slow down massively if you're spamming settlers, which means that vital worker techs may end up taking far too long to research.

As far as Wonders, my advice is simple: Don't build them unless you're Industrious or desperately need them. That includes the Oracle; if you have to build the Oracle in order to win, it's time to drop a difficulty level. :)

Once you've got the land you want and think you can afford, the priority shifts to:

Early Game Aftermath: How Low Can You Go?
Build Workers and defenders. Build lots of the former and sufficient of the latter. Ideally, cities most likely to be attacked should have 3-4 CG2 Archers and a Spearman. If you have a Horses, a few mounted units go a long way. Your workers should be improving land like mad in an effort to keep your economy afloat. Techwise, now is the time to be getting those Religion techs, because your goal here is to get Code of Laws and your Rathauses.

It is possible that one of the psychos will declare war on you at this time.

Don't worry.

If you have little to pillage, all they can do is attack your cities, which is suicide for them without catapults and extremely risky with. This brings us to a second point: you are Imperialistic, and getting a Great General off of a war is as easy as building Archers. I do recommend attaching the first one, since a CG3/Leadership/Drill Whatever archery unit usually can take on a stack of 10 contemporary units all by itself. This also unlocks HE and West Point, as well as doubling your Great General points against attacking units.

Getting Medieval
After you've gotten Code of Laws and are building Rathauses, there's a choice in the tech path: continue on the Road to Feudalism or head to Engineering.

Notice how Civil Service and indeed Philosophy have failed to make their appearance. This is because if you have to get to Liberalism first in order to win, you need to drop a difficulty level. :)

Generally, you'll go for Feudalism if you've got all the land locked off you can handle and you're looking to defend and consolidate. Monarchy and Feudalism unlock three very attractive Civics: Hereditary Rule for happiness, Vassalage for CG3 Longbows, and Serfdom! for quick land improvement (if you've already improved all your tiles, you didn't grab enough land). This will also be a time when you use Imperialistic to quickly settle marginal cities.

You'll likely head for Engineering if you're looking at military action. There are quite a few reasons for this:
1) You'll need Metal Casting, which unlocks Forges;
2) You'll need Machinery, which unlocks Crossbows (Drill Promoted Crossbows are fun, fun, fun);
3) Engineering unlocks your UU, which is pretty useful for protecting invading stacks;
4) Engineering unlocks Trebuchets, which are what you need for Medieval War;
5) Engineering gives you a 3 move on roads, which allows for quicker reinforcement; and
6) Engineering unlocks the generally useful Castles, and if you're smart you'll unlock these sooner rather than later. As many people have noted, Castles obsolete very soon unless you make an effort to get them early. With +1 Culture, +1 Trade Route, +50% City Defense, and +25% Espionage, these buildings support a multitude of little things, almost all of which help warring.

While you may not have Macemen, Landsneckts can fill the role of Stack Protectors, Trebs will be doing your city damage, and Crossbows will be doing mop up. This is an unconventional way of making war but can be surprisingly effective.

Whichever path you choose first, I recommend taking the other one next; they supplement each other.

It's worth noting that these are the main tech paths; trade for what it looks like you need and aren't otherwise getting because of your focus. Drama's probably a good idea for Drafting purposes later on.

Renaissance, Man!

The main goals here are Gunpowder and Nationalism; Protective Gunpowder units, especially Drafted, are some of the best in the game. Ideally, by the time you get to this stage you should have the land advantage on your continent. This is not the time to get cocky, though; this is also the time when Cuirassiers, Cavalry, and even Grenadiers might put you into a grave unless you're prioritizing the appropriate countermeasure techs. Incidentally, Rifling's a good idea (when is it not)? From this point on, a Charlemagne game assumes a more "standard" role; you'll be using promoted Gunpowder units in combat to keep the Great Generals coming; do with them according to your preference. The key considerations of the later game are:

1) When to obsolete your Castles, and
2) What role corporations will play.

The two questions are related; you can't do one without the other. Charlemagne gets a lot of use from Corporations thanks to the Rathaus, but what Corporation you aim for will determine your tech path for the Industrial era. Look at your resources, get the Great Person you need, and go with it. Basically, you'll obsolete your Castles when you have a Corporation ready to take over.

After that; it's a question of victory type as to what you do. If you saw the chance for Domination way back when, you'll likely have it already, and if you saw the chance for culture, Protective can keep the slobs off your back. With the efficiency Rathauses give you, space race isn't a complete rule-out, but remember you're not using Imperialistic if you aren't warring with someone.

Charlemagne actually isn't innately suited to any particular victory condition, in my opinion; play the map and go with it.

I just don't see how you can keep your economy going in the early game. You're building a ton of cities before you get the rathaus, and a ton of archers, so that means you'll be short on workers. That spells anarchy, to me. Also, what do you do about barbarians pillaging you when you only have archers?

Oh, and no way could a CG3 archer stop 10 enemy units. I would guess that he could stop maybe 3 CR1 swordsmen and then he'd be done.

I just don't see how you can keep your economy going in the early game.

The first question is: what difficulty level do you normally play? As I said at the outset, this is for Prince or less.

You're building a ton of cities before you get the rathaus, and a ton of archers

A ton of cities, yes, a ton of archers, no. During the phase where you're grabbing as much land as possible, you need two if you're building them without barracks or one CG2 if you're building them with. This is because your walls are cheap.

The only significant difference between building a ton of cities before you have the Rathaus and building a ton of cities after is that if you wait until after, the time will be past to build a ton of cities.

Also, such cities can work unimproved tiles for slight benefit.

so that means you'll be short on workers.

Yes, which is why I said right at the outset of the Early Game aftermath section that you'll be building workers and defenders. You drive your economy down to the limit and then start about improving it.

Also, what do you do about barbarians pillaging you when you only have archers?

Precisely what are they going to pillage when you haven't improved anything in your outer cities beyond a road for Trade Routes when you've got the time? By the time you get around to actually improving your outer cities (barring special resources, which you can park a couple of archers on anyway), you should have an inner area that will take forever for barbarians to reach.

Oh, and no way could a CG3 archer stop 10 enemy units. I would guess that he could stop maybe 3 CR1 swordsmen and then he'd be done.

That would be a significant difference between us then, since I'm not guessing. It happened regularly in all of the Charlemagne games I played before writing this article, including quite a few on Monarch (I lose on Monarch because Monarch doesn't forgive mistakes and I usually make those) Incidentally, what I said was,

I do recommend attaching the first one, since a CG3/Leadership/Drill Whatever archery unit usually can take on a stack of 10 contemporary units all by itself

A CG3 Archer with Leadership and Drill Whatever behind a Wall (which ought to have been assumed, since I said every city should be building a wall) will eat a lot of things for breakfast before biting the dust. This is only more true for a Longbow, which is also an archery unit. :)

What is your definition of a ton of cities. What level do you take the science slider before you stop?

Oh, recently, about 20 or 10 %. I actually tend to run out of room before hitting zero, since I play on continents. :)

I think the beggist problem is still your economy, but first I want to address your defense strategy.

Oh, and no way could a CG3 archer stop 10 enemy units. I would guess that he could stop maybe 3 CR1 swordsmen and then he'd be done.



That would be a significant difference between us then, since I'm not guessing. It happened regularly in all of the Charlemagne games I played before writing this article, including quite a few on Monarch (I lose on Monarch because Monarch doesn't forgive mistakes and I usually make those) Incidentally, what I said was,


"A CG3 Archer with Leadership and Drill Whatever behind a Wall (which ought to have been assumed, since I said every city should be building a wall) will eat a lot of things for breakfast before biting the dust. This is only more true for a Longbow, which is also an archery unit. :)"

You're right. I was just guessing. It was an educated guess, based on all my games on difficulties up to emperor, and messing around with Charlemagne, but still, as I scientist, I should have known better than to guess at something that can easily be tested. Here's some actual data.

http://i29.tinypic.com/24ewga9.jpg
I set up a typical in game scenario here: one warlord archer with CG3, Drill 2, fully fortified on a hill city with walls, vs. a horde of City raider 1 swordsmen. I ran the test 10 times, using the "reload random seed option" so that each time was different, and the archer averaged only 2.4 kills before falling to the horde. My original guess of 3 kills was actually too generous, apparently.

Next, the same scenario, but medieval style.
http://i29.tinypic.com/16ldzdx.jpg
again, I ran it 10 times, and the GG longbowmen with CG3 and Drill 2 killed an average of 4.7 CR1 macemen before dying.

Long story short: promotions are nice, but raw numbers are even better. Don't expect to be invincible just because your first fight is >99% odds.

Now about the economy: it's harder to empirically test this, but i did my best. It's true, it's been a while since I've played below prince level, so I'm out of touch with how city maintence works there. I do know for a fact that your expansion strategy would not work on monarch+, because the maintenence would eat you alive before you could reach Code of Laws. The question is, how different is it on lower difficulties? To test it, I tried making 5 cities, each 5 squares away from the capital, first on noble, then on emperor. I don't know how many you build, but 5 in the early game sure seems like a ton to me!

http://i28.tinypic.com/9r6gkm.jpg
http://i27.tinypic.com/2gy126v.jpg

It's a bit better on noble, but not much. You're paying 16 GPT , instead of 25 GPT on emperor. So you could maybe found on extra city. But you're telling people to expand until they run out of room, and meanwhile:

No land improvement!
No wonders (the GLH would help keep your economy afloat, and the oracle could let you grab CoL before you go bankrupt)
No early religion, or any great people

So where are you planning on getting gold from?! You're just piling on expenses, and not increasing your income at all. Reckless settler spam doesn't work, and it's one of the worst bad habits that new players have. If you want to do well in Civ 4, you're going to have to learn to manage your economy, and make every single one of your cities worthwhile.

Thank you, that's far better. :)

1) You play Emperor. The economy tanks sooner. Again, this is for Prince and below.

2) Given your example, I will amend my statement. Such a unit will handle around 10 units that a Prince AI or less throws at you. I have seen it happen in too many of my games, probably because the AI doesn't attack exclusively with CR units and I don't defend cities under attack with only one unit, so some of the lesser units end up taking some of the tougher attackers. :)

I think the disagreement stems mainly from difficulty level and perhaps also game speed. I recognize that difficulty level does not directly affect combat, but I have noticed the AI making more intelligent military decisions on monarch -- do you know if that would apply to unit promotions as well?

1)Maybe you could post some screen shots of how you economy progresses, to show how this is supposed to work.

2)I haven't noticed any differences in the promotions that they use, but like I said it's been a while since I've tried playing on prince level. The biggest difference is the size of their armies- as the difficulty goes up, the AI's army sizes go up exponentially. Unfortunately for Sparta, it doesn't really matter what promotions they're using when you're outnumbered 5 to 1!

No land improvement!

Ouch; I just realized I wasn't sufficiently clear.

This means your early game should be focused on Land-grab. Catherine is better at grabbing land, but she can't hold it nearly as well as Charlemagne can. Use your scout to find the right city sites, and then start pumping out the archers and Settlers. New cities can build Monuments first if you need the border pop, Walls first or second if you need defense, and then most likely Workers, because if you're doing this properly your economy's going to be dragging through the primitive sewer.

Techwise, I generally recommend a worker tech to hook up whatever's nearest, then Archery for escorts, then more worker techs. A few specific notes below:

While you're researching a tech to hook stuff up and Archery, it would indeed be foolhardy to be building Settlers. You need a Worker, otherwise there's absolutely no point in researching worker techs. I just reread what I wrote and it could be interpreted as building Settlers right off the bat. Ugh. Sorry. My first build has almost always been a worker.

Reckless settler spam doesn't work, and it's one of the worst bad habits that new players have.

I agree. Well-considered Setller spam, under the right conditions, is something else. For example, in the pictures you provided, I wouldn't be going with a grid formation; I'd be looking to get the ideal city spots, trying to minimize areas of barbarian appearance near my capital, and checking for spots that conceivably block or cramp a nearby AI.

I wish I had taken screenshots of my last Charlemagne game; I'm not sure when I'll get a chance to play another one (we're on overtime at my work, which is where I'm writing this from while the main program I use is busy).

I have seen a Monarch game where an archer, owned by sitting bull, defended a city alone. He was CG III, D I, C I, and took out 4 unpromoted swords. Afterwards, he had 2.6 hp out of 3 max. I would definately judge it possible for an archer with CG II to keep off 5 attackers for as long as these are unpromoted swords or below.

OK, so you do improve your land at least. But you also said:


2) Along the same lines, even CR Swords have a hard time making it past CG2 Drill 1 Archers behind a Wall, even if said Wall is not on a hill. You therefore don't need Bronze Working/AH early for Barbarian defense, since your cultural expansion should be outstripping your tile improvements if you're really focusing on it.

/snip

It is possible that one of the psychos will declare war on you at this time.

Don't worry.

If you have little to pillage, all they can do is attack your cities, which is suicide for them without catapults and extremely risky with. This brings us to a second point: you are Imperialistic, and getting a Great General off of a war is as easy as building Archers. I do recommend attaching the first one, since a CG3/Leadership/Drill Whatever archery unit usually can take on a stack of 10 contemporary units all by itself. This also unlocks HE and West Point, as well as doubling your Great General points against attacking units.


I take that to mean that you only improve the core cities, and leave the rest to be pillaged. Because if you've got nothing but archers, that means there's no way to stop enemies from pillaging you.

I have seen a Monarch game where an archer, owned by sitting bull, defended a city alone. He was CG III, D I, C I, and took out 4 unpromoted swords. Afterwards, he had 2.6 hp out of 3 max. I would definately judge it possible for an archer with CG II to keep off 5 attackers for as long as these are unpromoted swords or below.

Yes I''m sure it's POSSIBLE, but the question is, should you rely on it? And is it worthwhile attaching a GG to an archer instead of using him as an instructor?

To the question of attaching vs instructor:

If you're focused on getting Feudalism/Theocracy relatively early, I prefer attaching simply for opening up West Point. More value if expect to get attacked. After that first one, though, I like settling for military instructors. Since Feudalism is attractive for any Protective leader and since an Imperialistic leader should be generating Generals earlier, I believe attaching the first to be the proper choice with Charlemagne.

More generally, I wouldn't rely on a lone unit no matter how heavily promoted to withstand a ton of units, but I would rely on such a unit to destroy a significant amount of units compared to the other defenders in a city.

I take that to mean that you only improve the core cities, and leave the rest to be pillaged. Because if you've got nothing but archers, that means there's no way to stop enemies from pillaging you.

If I've only made improvements on the tiles in core cities, then there's nothing else to pillage, in essence forcing an attacking AI to try and take my cities or simply sit there (this is precisely what happened in my last Charlemagne game). It's not been my experience on a Prince or less AI that they will send a large stack into the interior if there's a military presence on their borders, even if said military presence consists mainly of archers/longbowmen.

Okay, here we go; screenshots in spoiler tags to conserve space.

I tried to take a Screenshot of the settings, but it seems to have taken a screenshot of map generation. This is Prince Rocky Continents Medium shoreline Normal Speed.

I took the notes as I was playing, so they might be a little disjointed.

Start:

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn232/b_took/Charlie/CharlieTurn000StartingPosition0000.jpg

Okay, I’ve got Gold and plains hills but not a whole lot of food apparent. This will give me some good commerce once I research Mining IF I can find enough food to support working it. The blank Plains tile might hold a strategic resource, but I’m worried about a food source. I’m going to settle in place and see what the BFC holds.

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn232/b_took/Charlie/CharlieTurn000TheBFC0000.jpg

Wow, Cows just to the right! That will give me enough food to work the Gold Mine and extra hammers for Settler and Archer Production. The first build will be a worker while teching Animal Husbandry, since Hunting enables that one.

General scouting thoughts: Looks like a coast to my right. I’ll likely want to settle North, West, and South, hemming that area in for future expansion unless something really lucrative pops up.

Popped the first hut for a tech. Starting with a scout gives better results from huts and faster access to them – a gift of gold can fund overexpansion, but a tech means one less thing to research during that somewhat painful period when my economy’s in the gutter.

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn232/b_took/Charlie/CharlieTurn003ScoutsRock0000.jpg

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn232/b_took/Charlie/CharlieTurn005GiftOfGold0000.jpg

Rice, Cattle, and Bananas in a BFC. That might be a good city to settle.

Doh! Maps that reveal a lot of water are not my favorite, but this one revealed a source of rice (the one to the north; I had to move my Scout to find the one directly above him. :))

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn232/b_took/Charlie/CharlieTurn009StupidMap0000.jpg

Got Animal Husbandry on the turn my Worker finished; Mining was the next step to be able to work the gold.

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn232/b_took/Charlie/CharlieTurn012MiningForTheGold0000.jpg

Started building an Archer. If I hadn’t have popped Archery from the hut, I would have likely built another Scout while researching Archery, allowing Aachen to grow and get some hammers to use for Settler production.

Rice and Stone – cheap Walls, and I know Gandhi’s up there in that direction . . . that’ll likely be my first city and will work on a Monument.

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn232/b_took/Charlie/CharlieTurn013HutBeforeGandhi0000.jpg

Another hut; I’m now up to 140 Gold. Got mining on Turn 18; researching the Wheel so I can connect cities.

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn232/b_took/Charlie/CharlieTurn017GoldIsAt1400000.jpg

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn232/b_took/Charlie/CharlieTurn019TheNaturalWall0000.jpg

Inland Sea with mountains on top and bottom – don’t need to worry as much about Settling West.

Augustus to my West – okay, focus defense there; Praetorians are annoying in the extreme. Sitting Bull also to my West. Hopefully Augustus will go after him. I’ll only really need Culture to fend off Gandhi, but these other two might give me issues. :)

Turn 25: Got the Wheel, Masonry will take 4 turns and let me quarry the Stone and build my cheap walls.

It seems we’re bunched together in the North. Augustus is Imperialistic as well, so the bulk of my cities should go Southward after this to prevent him from getting too large an empire.

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn232/b_took/Charlie/CharlieTurn027CrowdedNorth0000.jpg

Turn 28: First Settler and Masonry finished. Probably Agriculture now, so I can work that Rice and Aachen can work more hills.

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn232/b_took/Charlie/CharlieTurn032MarginalButFun0000.jpg

Comment while putting the images into the post: I wonder how many people will have a heart attack when they see the placement of my second city? :)

The Stone is somewhat Vulnerable to pillaging, but with Gandhi to my North, I’m expecting most Barbarians to come from the south. There’s a potential Deer/Sheep/Horse city across the desert, but it’s most likely too far away; let Sitting Bull and Gandhi fight for it.

Turn 34: Finish Agriculture; Writing will take 8 turns and I know I might get some culture war from Gandhi – who is almost immediately north of me, so I shouldn’t have to worry too much about Barbarians from that direction, as I had hoped.

Turn 41: Got Writing, next steps are likely Bronze Working and then Iron Working so I can chop that Jungle.

My third city will need a border expansion to work the cattle, and the culture might help me scout something useful, so it’s a monument fist.

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn232/b_took/Charlie/CharlieTurn043ThirdCity0000.jpg

Turn 47: Got Bronze Working; Iron Working will take 11 turns.

Rice, Horses, and Banana isn’t bad, though it’s looking more and more like I may want to detour to Calendar when the time comes.

There’s a Barbarian on the border; I’ll stick an Archer on the Gold and Fortify him.

Turn 56: Iron Working. Now Pottery.

Turn 63: All right, my third city is very cozy and has built a Monument and a Wall; I’m going to build a Worker to start clearing Jungle.

Turn 75: I have 5 cities at 50% on the Slider and am breaking even, one turn away from finishing Priesthood.

Turn 76: Code of Laws will take 31 turns to Research. This is the point where Workers are to be built and my Northern city will be building extra defensive Archers. A food-heavy city will build a Library to run some Scientists.

Part 2 Because Of Image Limits In A Post

Turn 80: Have had to drop to 40% at a profit; Code of Laws will take 31 turns. A Barbarian Warrior wandered near Nuremberg but found nothing to Pillage, so attacked the city.

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn232/b_took/Charlie/CharlieTurn085WowASpearman0000.jpg

Comment while inserting pictures: Hey, they do exist! Who knew? :)

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn232/b_took/Charlie/CharlieTurn088DownTo300000.jpg

Notice how there just wasn't much to pillage. He attacked my capital instead of taking out my road. :)


Turn 89: Down to 30%, finished a Library in Aachen to get a bit more research out of that Gold Mine.

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn232/b_took/Charlie/CharlieTurn090WorkerHo0000.jpg

I've got six cities and a Wall and a Monument in this one, so might as well start on a Worker. This city is comfortably on my interior and doesn't need to worry about Barbarians, ironically enough.


Turn 95: Finished Work Boat in Mainz; now building a Wall. I won’t need a Monument yet with this city; it’s in the Interior as it were and all the resources are workable in the first ring. The Library in Vienna is about Finished, I’ll see what a Scientist does for me.

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn232/b_took/Charlie/CharlieTurn095PlayTheMap0000.jpg

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn232/b_took/Charlie/CharlieTurn097NurembergCottageTerri.jpg

Nuremberg has cities in all directions and a meaningless Barbarian city that will soon feel a culture squeeze; I can likely cottage it with impunity, which is what I will be doing.

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn232/b_took/Charlie/CharlieTurn098Scientists0000.jpg

Vienna, on the other hand, shaves 3 turns off of Code of Laws and begins generating a Great Scientist. The cottages will probably be replaced with Farms if I decide to go with Caste System.

Turn 101: Apparently, I’m third in tech; pumping out cities to distant spots and barely improving them has slowed me down a little, but I’m on the verge of Rathauses. There are some more tasty spots to the south, but I’ll have gotten to Rathauses before running out of land. Definitely not what I'm used to.

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn232/b_took/Charlie/CharlieTurn101Wow0000.jpg

And I found Confucianism.

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn232/b_took/Charlie/CharlieTurn105EnoughSaid0000.jpg

From here, I have Rathauses I can build, I have an interior city that the AI’s not going to THINK of pillaging, I’m building workers and Archers, and will have to recover my Economy. The next tech will likely be Alphabet, and I’m going to have to do some catch up. On the other hand, the Rathaus allows Charlemagne to catch up more quickly than any other Imperialistic Civ who does this kind of thing. I’ve got three archers in my border cities, two pinning the Barbarian city, and one guarding the Cattle near Vienna.

I made a mistake in not Settling a city beyond Vienna; the Clam/Stone/Gold/Cattle city could probably have waited (how many games can one say that? :)). I'm not used to starting with Gold, it gave me more leeway that I expected, so I counterbalanced that by detouring through Fishing and Sailing in preparation for a time when Calendar looks appealing.

The point here is that I got the Settlers and their escorts out fast. If I had waited and established a core of cities to get an economy going:

1) I wouldn't have Settled the desert city first. As it is, I've got a buffer against Gandhi's culture and had Stone to help some Walls, not to mention the Iron that ended up popping in one of the desert tiles;
2) I'd likely be facing Barbarians from all sides who would indeed be pillaging my improvements;
3) I'd be forced into Aggressiveness to counter Augustus well before Medieval times, when a war is more favorable to Charlemagne. As it is, I should have Settled beyond Vienna to provide a buffer zone against Augustus, but I know where to send any extra metal/horse-based troops I build.

A word on Slavery:
There didn't seem to be enough food in this start to make Slavery worth it; rice was covered by Jungle or near a desert, etc. Since the Capital had Cattle and Gold, I felt that it would be sufficient without a switch to Slavery.

Anyway, hopefully this demonstrates that it is possible to send out Settlers rather madly and still make it to Code of Laws reasonably well (apologies once again for not making it clear that you build a Worker first). You weaken yourself in the Classical Era, essentially, in order to make yourself stronger by the moment in the medieval era. This is unorthodox, I agree, but I've found it to be the best overall way to use Charlemagne on Prince and below.

On second thought, I probably could have built a trade route to Gandhi and opened borders for better Trade Route income with no real loss of land, allowing me to expand even further south before dropping down. Told you I make mistakes. :)

Now that was weird. I never thought I'd see someone attaching a general to an archer unit LOL. What a waste (I think!).

Anyhow, I wouldn't doubt that a LONGBOW fortified in a city ON a hill with walls, with a CG3 & Drill IV will win against 4 axemen promoted to strength 1 :P

Hell, give them shock too, not that it would change the results any.

To clear out, I never mentioned attaching a GG to an archer - the unit (CG III C I C I) was a regular protective Archer, with 10 xp (lvl 4), owned by Sitting Bull of the Native Americans. It had Drill I and CG I from PRO and then got CG II, CG III from totem and barracks, Combat I later on.

Now that was weird. I never thought I'd see someone attaching a general to an archer unit LOL. What a waste (I think!).

If I've gotten a Great General early enough to attach them to an Archer, it's only because I'm under attack, and the odds are I'm not ready to go on the offensive, so a super-defender makes a great deal of sense in that situation. That's probably about the only situation where it makes sense, but there you have it. :)

I give you props for coming up with a strategy that's particularly suited to Charlemagne. Still that desert city:lol:! Also two jungle cities:lol:.

I have to disagree with the OP.

Liberalism and the Oracle are worth building for.

;6844274']I have to disagree with the OP.

Liberalism and the Oracle are worth building for.

:rolleyes: So are axemen. So is the spaceship. So is the Internet.

But if you have to get them in order to win, you're at too difficult a level. If you like them but can do without them, you're at the right difficulty level.

If you get them every time without trying, you're probably at too low a difficulty level.

In the example game I posted, by the time I got to Priesthood, the Oracle was something of a "why bother?" At that point I was far more interested in making workers and decent defenders for my border cities.

There are situations when I'll go for the Oracle (mainly if I'm Industrious or am looking for some kind of Slingshot), but I've gone straight for it a few times with Charlemagne and I've never felt the long-term results were as satisfactory as expanding, shoring up defenses and building workers.

:rolleyes: So are axemen. So is the spaceship. So is the Internet.

But if you have to get them in order to win, you're at too difficult a level. If you like them but can do without them, you're at the right difficulty level.

If you get them every time without trying, you're probably at too low a difficulty level.

In the example game I posted, by the time I got to Priesthood, the Oracle was something of a "why bother?" At that point I was far more interested in making workers and decent defenders for my border cities.

There are situations when I'll go for the Oracle (mainly if I'm Industrious or am looking for some kind of Slingshot), but I've gone straight for it a few times with Charlemagne and I've never felt the long-term results were as satisfactory as expanding, shoring up defenses and building workers.

If you get the oracle + The techs required, it totals about 40-50 turns.

Researching MC is about 45 turns average.


Plus, you want the religious buildings to help your tech + Building the AP ( Or with any luck, somebody builds it with your religion )

@OP:

Posting a strategy article is great fun, eh? :)

I read your article and have some comments.

I agree with your overall strategy of REXing and going for war in the Medieval period. I also agree that the HRE is in great position to fight defensive wars until that time.

The big issues for me are (1) REXing while remaining solvent (2) finding a way to improve research output even as expenses are rising and (3) improving happiness to enable vertical growth when you have reached the practical limit of horizontal growth.

Let's assume that you build no wonders and attempt no other "slingshot" strategies, which you seem to regard as a crutch of sorts.

I would generally suggest a tech path like this:


Polytheism -- assuming you can win the Hinduism race (i.e., you play on a lower difficulty level and/or are working a commerce tile)
Food Tech (Agriculture, AH, or Fishing)
Mining
Bronze Working
Archery
The Wheel
Pottery
Food Tech 2 (Agriculture, AH, or Fishing)
Priesthood
Writing
Monarchy
Mathematics
Currency
Code of Laws


Hinduism = +2 happiness in all cities with state religion and a temple. This is huge, and since you're protective, who cares if the AI civs don't like you? Bronze Working is key for any REXing strategy, both for wood chopping and whipping. I also think you need something besides archers to deal with barbarians. What good is protective if barbs choke your workers and pillage your improvements? Having a few axes or chariots is key here. Your protective archers are really for dealing with AI invasions, not barbs. That said, if you build enough archers and use them as picket defenders to fogbust, they can defensively kill a lot of barbs before they enter your areas. You still need a few offensive units to kill barbs that penetrate the picket.

This tech path does delay worker techs for a short while. This means a build order emphasizing scouts and warriors at the beginning of the game.

With an early religion and Monarchy, you can grow big cities fairly early, allowing you to get most of your beakers from scientist specialists. Just try to place your non-production cities so that they each have two bonus food tiles. You'd be amazed at how many beakers and great people you can get just by running a couple of scientists in most of your cities. This also lets you drop your research slider to accomodate the REX masterplan.

I like your medieval war plan (trebs + pikes + crossbows). The key is surviving long enough to get there.

@OP:

Posting a strategy article is great fun, eh? :)

I read your article and have some comments.

I agree with your overall strategy of REXing and going for war in the Medieval period. I also agree that the HRE is in great position to fight defensive wars until that time.

The big issues for me are (1) REXing while remaining solvent (2) finding a way to improve research output even as expenses are rising and (3) improving happiness to enable vertical growth when you have reached the practical limit of horizontal growth.

Hopefully the demo game addressed some of those concerns; keep in mind that this is for Prince Difficulty, tops.

Let's assume that you build no wonders and attempt no other "slingshot" strategies, which you seem to regard as a crutch of sorts.

Not a crutch; there are any number of situations where I'll go for them, but I don't think they're where Charlemagne is going to get the best use of his hammers.

I would generally suggest a tech path like this:


Polytheism -- assuming you can win the Hinduism race (i.e., you play on a lower difficulty level and/or are working a commerce tile)
Food Tech (Agriculture, AH, or Fishing)
Mining
Bronze Working
Archery
The Wheel
Pottery
Food Tech 2 (Agriculture, AH, or Fishing)
Priesthood
Writing
Monarchy
Mathematics
Currency
Code of Laws


My tech path in the sample game went mainly through the worker techs -- without cheap temples, you have to invest a lot of hammers to get the second happiness, and in the meantime, there's every possibility an AI will spread a religion to you. Happiness is not so nasty an issue on Prince or below. Mining and Bronze Working may be necessary depending on the map; in the sample game I posted Mining was definitely necessary but Bronze Working no so much so.

Bronze Working is key for any REXing strategy, both for wood chopping and whipping.

Neither chopping nor Whipping played a significant part of the example game; I didn't need the 20 Hammers of the Former since the capital had enough hammers for a good Settler bonus to apply, and there wasn't enough food to make the latter really worth it. Besides, I didn't have to worry about unhappiness as much without whipping.

I also think you need something besides archers to deal with barbarians. What good is protective if barbs choke your workers and pillage your improvements?

Again, I'll point to the sample game I posted. What precisely were the Barbarians going to pillage?

Your protective archers are really for dealing with AI invasions, not barbs. That said, if you build enough archers and use them as picket defenders to fogbust, they can defensively kill a lot of barbs before they enter your areas. You still need a few offensive units to kill barbs that penetrate the picket.

That's the point; the cities are doing the fogbusting and picketing long before they get more than tile improvements that hook up resources. I point again to the sample game.

With an early religion and Monarchy, you can grow big cities fairly early

But this is an entirely different thing than I'm talking about. My first three cities in the sample game where founded at a desert and in the middle of two jungles, respectively. The key is not early growth, the key is getting enough land to channel later growth. I agree this is not the best way of doing things unless your leader's name happens to be Charlemagne. :)

You'd be amazed at how many beakers and great people you can get just by running a couple of scientists in most of your cities. This also lets you drop your research slider to accomodate the REX masterplan.

No I wouldn't; that's my favorite thing to do with Sitting Bull. Libraries and specialists play a part of the recovery phase.

I like your medieval war plan (trebs + pikes + crossbows). The key is surviving long enough to get there.

Which is another reason to have a border of defensive cities that allow you to improve an interior. I point once again to the sample game, where Vienna is vulnerable because I rather stupidly did not settle beyond it, but where Nuremberg can cottage everything in site with no fear of pillaging from any source.

Anyway, I think we're talking about two different things. The strategy you outlined is good for any leader that starts with Mysticism. It doesn't particularly attempt to take advantage of anything Charlemagne does well.

So, after seeing what you did with your no-whip, no-chop, walls+archer-in-every-city, no-improve-the-outer-cities strategy, I wanted to see what I could do with a more normal strategy on prince level.
http://i26.tinypic.com/200sg2d.jpg
8 cities, all of which have improvements. Chariots protect everything, i'm first in score, with happiness to spare, and half of my cities have Rathauses since I got Code of Laws about 20 turns ago. This is at the same time as your last screenshot.

Cool. :)

Out of curiosity, how many cities did you have 20 turns ago?

5, I think.