View Full Version : Units


NikNaks
May 22, 2008, 03:28 AM
Land Units:
Modern Armor
AFV
New Class, default mechanized infantry, but now counts as armor, not gunpowder
Jet Fighter
Stealth Bomber
Marine
Anti-Tank
SAM
Paratrooper
Conscripted Soldiers

Air Units:
Gunship

Sea Units:
Carrier: Big and small maybe
Attack Sub:
Nuclear sub: Carries missiles
Destroyer: Air defence; can see subs
Frigates: Anti sub; could be merged with destroyer

Other Miscellaneous Units:

NikNaks
May 22, 2008, 03:29 AM
Air Units
5th Generation Jet Fighter:
- F-35 Lighting II\JCA (US\UK\Italy) (In low level production)
- F-22 Raptor (US) (Only 5th generation in service)

4.5th Generation Jet Fighter
- Eurofighter Typhoon (UK\Germany\Spain\Italy)
- F/A-18E/F Super Hornet (US)
- F-16 Block 50/52 and later models (US)
- Chengdu J-10 (PRC)

4th Generation Jet Fighter
- Panavia Tornado (UK\Germany\Italy)
- JF-17 Thunder (PRC\Pakistan)
- Sukhoi Su-27 (USSR)
- Mikoyan MiG-31 (USSR)
- Dassault Mirage 2000 (France)
- F-16 Fighting Falcon
- F/A-18 Hornet (US)

3rd Generation Jet Fighter
Most likely the most basic types to be seen in the game seen mainly in African countries, they should be non buildable starting units to reflect the fact none of the countries with the capability to build them no longer do so
- Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21MF/bis 'Fishbed' (USSR)
- Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-23 'Flogger' (USSR)
- Sukhoi Su-17 'Fitter' (USSR)
- F4 Phantom II (US)
- Northrop F-5 (US)

Stealth Bomber
- B-2 Spirit (US) - ONLY Stealth Bomber in service and with no non US designs even in development, stealth bomber should be a US UU.

Strategic Bombers
- Tupolev Tu-22M (USSR)
- B-52 Stratofortress(US)
- Tupolev Tu-95\Tupolev Tu-142 (USSR)
- General Dynamics F-111 (US)
- Tupolev Tu-160 (USSR\Russian Federation)

Helicopter Gunship
- AH-64 Apache (US)
- Westland WAH-64 Apache (UK)
- Eurocopter Tiger (Germany\Austria\French\Spain)
- Kamov Ka-50 (USSR)
- AH-1 Cobra (US)
- Mil Mi-24 (USSR)
- Mil Mi-28 (USSR)

Air Transport Vessel
- Lockheed C-130 Hercules (US) (medium range & 2 unit airlift)
- Airbus A400M (EU) (medium range & 3 unit airlift)
- C-17 Globemaster III (US) (Medium Range & 3 Unit Airlift)
- Lockheed C-5 Galaxy (US) (Long Range & 4 unit airlift)
- Antonov An-124 (USSR) (Long Range & 4 unit airlift)

NikNaks
May 22, 2008, 03:30 AM
Key: Unit (country where built) (current users) - notes

Naval Units

SSN - Attack Submarine (Nuclear-Powered)
Some of the most modern ones can carry Cruise Missiles for land attack.
UK

Astute class submarine (UK) (UK) (first boat in commission 2009)
Trafalger Class submarine (UK) (UK) - non buildable starting unit
Swifture class submarine (UK) (UK) - non buildable starting unitUS
Virginia class submarine (US) (US)
Seawolf class submarine (US) (US) - non buildable starting unit
Los Angeles class submarine (US) (US) -non buildable starting unitRussia
Graney class submarine (Russian Federation) (Russia) (in service 2010)
Sierra I&II class submarine (USSR) (Russia) - non buildable starting unit
Victor III class submarine (USSR) (Russia) - non buildable starting unitFrance
Barracuda class submarine (France) (France) (first boat in commision 2016)
Rubis class submarine (France) (France) - non buildable starting unitChina
Type 093 submarine (PRC) (PRC)
Type 091 submarine (PRC) (PRC) - non buildable starting unitMultiple Civs
Akula class submarine (USSR) (Russia\India) - non buildable starting unitSSBN - Ballistic Missile Submarine (Nuclear-Powered)Carries 6 SLMBM's

UK
Vanguard class submarine (UK) (UK) - non buildable starting unitUS
Ohio class submarine (US) (US) - non buildable starting unit
Red October Class (USSR) (US) - non buildable starting unit :D :lol:Russia
Borei class submarine (Russian Federation) (Russia) - first commisioned 2008
Typhoon class submarine (USSR) (Russia) - non building starting unit
Delta III & IV classes (USSR) (Russia) - non buildable starting unitFrance
Le Triomphant class submarine (France) (France)China
Type 094 submarine (PRC) (PRC)
Type 092 submarine (PRC) (PRC) - non buildable starting unitIndia
Advanced Technology Vessel (India) (India) - commisioned in 2012SS - Attack Submarine (Diesel-Electric Power)
Some of the most modern classes can carry cruise missiles for land attack

Europe
Germany
Type 212 submarine (Germany)
Italy
Sauro class submarine (Italy) (Italy) - non buildable starting unit
The Netherlands
Walrus class submarine (Netherlands) (Netherlands) - non buildable starting unit
Norway
Ula class submarine (Germany) (Norway - non buildable starting unit)
Poland
Kobben class submarine (Germany) (Poland) - non buildable starting unit
Portugal
Daphné class submarine (France) (Albacora class Portugal) -Non buildable starting unit
Russia
Lada class submarine (Russia) (Russia)
Spain
S-80 class Submarine (Spain\UK) (Spain) -in service 2011-2014
Sweden
Gotland class submarine (Germany) (Sweden) - non buildable starting unit
Multiple Nations
Type 206 submarine (Germany\Italy) (Germany\Italy) Asia
Iran
Nahang class submarine (Iran) (Iran)
Yugo class submarine (Iran) (Iran) - non buildable starting unit
Israel
Dolphin class submarine (Germany) (Israel) - non buildable starting unit
Japan
Harushio class submarine (Japan) (Japan) - non buildable starting unit
Oyashio class submarine (Japan) (Japan) - last boat commisioned in 2008
Taiwan
Tench class submarine (US) (Taiwan) - non buildable starting unit
Hai Lung\ Zwaardvis class submarine (Netherlands) (Taiwan) - non buildable starting unit Americas + Oceania

Australia
Collins class submarine (Australia) (Australia) - non buildable starting unit
Canada
Upholder\Victoria Class Submarine (UK) (Canada) - non buildable starting unit
Ecuador
Type 209: 1300 series (Germany) (Ecuador) Inter-continental
Kilo class submarine (USSR\Russia) (Russia\Algeria\PRC\India\Indonesia (arriving 09)\Iran\Poland\Romania) - non buildable starting unit
Romeo class submarine (USSR) (Russia\PRC\Bulgaria\China\Syria\Egypt\ Nrth Korea) - non buildable starting unit
Foxtrot Class (USSR) (India\Ukraine)
Type 214 submarine (Germany) (South Korea\Greece (due to commision soon)\Turkey)
Type 209 submarine (all sub classes produced by Germany)
1500 (Brazil\India\Portugal (in service 2009))
1400 (Brazil\Chile\South Africa\Turkey)
1200 (Colombia\Greece\Indonesia\South Korea\Peru\Turkey\Venezula)
1100 (Argentina\Peru\Greece)
Södermanland\Västergötland class submarine (Sweden\Singapore) - non buildable unit
Scorpène class submarine (France\Spain\under licence in India) (Chile\India\Malaysia)
Agosta 90B class submarine (France) (Spain\Pakistan) - non buildable starting unitCruisers

Peru
De Zeven Provinciën class cruiser (Netherlands) (Peru) - non buildable starting unitUS
Ticonderoga class Missile cruiser (US) (US) - non buildable starting unitFrance
Jeanne d'Arc (R 97) helicopter cruiser (France) (France) - non buildable starting unitRussia
Kirov class battlecruiser (USSR) (Russian Federation) - non buildable starting unitDestroyers

UK
Type 45 Destroyer (UK) (UK)Canada
Iroquois class destroyer (Canada) (Canada) - non buildable starting unitRussia
Udaloy class destroyer (USSR) (Russia)
Kara class cruiser (USSR) (Russia) - comparable to a DD in strength - non buildable starting unit
Kashin class destroyer (USSR) (Russia) - non buildable starting unit
Sovremenny class destroyer (USSR\Russian Federation) (Russia\PRC)India
Kolkata class destroyer (India) (India) - first ship enters service 2010
Delhi class destroyer (India) (India) - non buildable starting unit
Rajput class destroyer (Russia) (India) - non buildable starting unitChina
Type 051C destroyer (PRC) (PRC)
Type 052C destroyer (PRC) (PRC) - non buildable starting unit
Type 052B destroyer (PRC) (PRC) - non buildable starting unit
Type 051B destroyer (PRC) (PRC) - non buildable starting unit
Type 052 destroyer (PRC) (PRC) - non buildable starting unit
Type 051 destroyer (PRC) (PRC) - non buildable starting unitFrance + Italy

Horizon class frigate (France\Italy) (France\Italy) - comparable size and power to DD -non buildable starting unit
Tourville class frigate (France) (France) - comparable size and power to DD -non buildable starting unit
Durand de la Penne class destroyer (Italy) (Italy) - non buildable starting unitMexico
Gearing class destroyer (US) (Mexico) - non buildable starting unit
Edsall-class destroyer escort (US) (Mexico) - non buildable starting unitJapan
Atago class destroyer (Japan) (Japan)
Takanami class destroyer (Japan) (Japan) - non buildable starting unit
Murasame class destroyer (Japan) (Japan) - non buildable starting unit
Kongō class destroyer (Japan) (Japan) - non buildable starting unit
Asagiri class destroyer (Japan) (Japan) - non buildable starting unit
Hatakaze class destroyer (Japan) (Japan) - non buildable starting unit
Hatsuyuki class destroyer (Japan) (Japan) - non buildable starting unit
Shirane class destroyer (Japan) (Japan) - non buildable starting unitSouth Korea

Gwanggaeto the Great class destroyer (South Korea) (South Korea) - non buildable starting unit
Chungmugong Yi Sun-sin class destroyer (South Korea) (South Korea)
King Sejong the Great class destroyer (South Korea) (South Korea) - first ship commisioned 2008US
Arleigh Burke class destroyer (US) (US)
Zumwalt class destroyer (US) (US) -first and only 2 units laid down in 2008Taiwan
- Kidd class destroyer (US) (Taiwan) - non buildable starting unitMultiple Civs

Type 42 Destroyer (UK) (UK\Argentina) - non buildable starting unit
MEKO 360 (Germany) (Argentina\Nigeria) - non buildable starting unit

Joe Harker
May 22, 2008, 06:29 AM
Just a thought, how about having normal foot soliders as well?

Sea Units, Carrier (BIg and small maybe), Attack Sub, Nuclear sub (carries missiles), Destroyer (air defence and see subs, but not a bonus against them) , Frigates (anti sub, could be merged with destroyer)

Transport Helicopters could be an option.

Also are you doing unquie units for certain civs, i got a list of equipment for the UK and some of the US's and Russia and bits of other nations (i am currently trying to make a cold war mod from 1945 to now so our mods clash a bit :))

NikNaks
May 22, 2008, 06:42 AM
I think the marines are the normal foot soldiers as it stands, but I have added your sea unit suggestions. As for unique info, we'd be very interested in it :)

Joe Harker
May 22, 2008, 06:48 AM
As for unique info, we'd be very interested in it

I will try and get all the relevant stuff from my files, hopefully i will post it by tomorrow

also just checking but it's all the equipment in operation today or soon to be operational? :)

I think the marines are the normal foot soldiers as it stands,

I meant like consrcipted armies since they generally are much poorer than normal army trained personal (I should have been clearer)

NikNaks
May 22, 2008, 07:00 AM
Both today and future equipment would be great. It might be a bit tedious to have a mod that only spans a year in total ;)

As for conscripted soldiers, do you have an example?

P.S. A bit OT, but did you watch the match last night?

Joe Harker
May 22, 2008, 07:15 AM
Both today and future equipment would be great. It might be a bit tedious to have a mod that only spans a year in total ;)


Would be a bit tedious!

As for conscripted soldiers, do you have an example?

Like Irsael can consricpt during war (not the best example, as their consrcipted arny is well trained) or Germany, who have 9 months mandorary consrciption (except if they go to university i think) and other third world countrys consrcipt to boost their armys. There is a decent list of countries who consrcipt in wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_service#Summary_of_countries))

My thinking is that these soliders would not be effective as marines in combat and therefore shouldn't be given the same stats as Marines, who in most armies are often the most well trained troops (except special forces)
Of course from a modding point of view it might be a pain and not add much to the game.

P.S. A bit OT, but did you watch the match last night?

Yes, a bit harsh on Chelsea but you also kind of knew that Terry would miss, an English defender scoring the winning penalty, yeah like that was going to happen!

NikNaks
May 22, 2008, 07:21 AM
Oh I see, I understand now. Kinda like National Service. Added to the OP.

:lol: I know what you mean. Terry looked almost overconfident when he stepped up for that pen, too. Really unfortunate that he slipped, but that's the way it goes. To be honest, Chelsea should have won it before it even got to extra time.

Joe Harker
May 22, 2008, 07:36 AM
Oh I see, I understand now. Kinda like National Service. Added to the OP.


Excatly like that! :) BTW I am in the process of making models of some modern units as well, so if you want some of them i would be happy to provide them to you. The only problem is is that i can't get them to be animated, they always appear odd when imported into the game with animations :sad:

:lol: I know what you mean. Terry looked almost overconfident when he stepped up for that pen, too. Really unfortunate that he slipped, but that's the way it goes. To be honest, Chelsea should have won it before it even got to extra time.

I think it was actually an even match Man U could have been 3 up by half time and Chelsea could have been 4-1 up by the end of normal time so penalties was probably the fairest outcome for the match,

it was funny watching ITV because for once were not trying to be biased! :lol:

Amogos
May 22, 2008, 10:52 PM
What about mercenaries? Are they going to be a part of this? (go World in Flames!)

Joe Harker
May 23, 2008, 03:44 AM
Right here some of the info for the UK :) (got quite a lot of information to look through :sad:)


UK
Land Vehicles

MBT Challenger 2 Current numbers 386 Fastest tank off road. Doesn't have as good as fire power as the Amercian M1 Abrams and the Leopard 2 due to a slightly inferior gun, however some Challenger 2's are being upgraded with the same guns as the two tanks mentioned.

IFV: Warrior

Carries 7 soldiers Current numbers 789

Destroyers
Type 42 Destroyers 9 in service (Exeter, Southampton, Liverpool, Nottingham, Manchester, Edinburgh, York and Gloucester)

Primary use is to protect Aircraft Carriers from air attack (Falklands war being the prime example of this use)

Type 45 Destroyers: One in service (HMS Daring, seven more planned to replace the ageing Type 42's

Same roles as the type 42's just much better, they are designed to be stealthy (but they are ugly ships!)

Frigates

Type 22 4 in service in RN (Cumberland, Cornwall, Campbeltown and Chatham)

Desgined to be Anti sub, however have been upgraded to be general purpose

Type 23 13 in service in RN (Norfolk, Lancaster, Argyll, Marlborough, Iron Duke, Monmouth, Montrose, Westminister, Northumberland, Richmond, Somerset, Grafton, Sutherland, Kent, Portlands and St Albans)

Again designed to hunt Soviet Subs, but upgraded to all forms of sea combat

Attack Subs

Trafalgar Class 7 active (Trafalgar, Turbulent, Tireless, Tobay, Trenchant, Talent and Triumph)

Current attack subs of the Royal navy, were built intended to hunt Soviet Subs

Astute Class (Being built, first in 2009)

(Swifture Class has two ships left but not really worth a mention as they will soon be retired)

Replacement of the Trafalgar Class

Nuclear Missile carrier Subs ( for lack of a better name)

Vanguard Class 4 active (Vanguard, Victorious, Vigilant and Vengeance)

Carries Trident missiles, up to 128 warheads.

Aircraft Carriers

Invincible Class 2 active, (Illustrious and Ark Royal)

Designed orginally with the Soviets in mind and Carried more ASW Helicopters, however after the Falklands war typically 9 Sea Harriers and 9 other aircraft can be on board.

It can carry up to 20 aircraft of any kind (due to the Sea Harriers short run way requirement)

Queen Elizabeth Class 2 planned Carries 50 aircraft of any kind (most likely the new American F35B)


Will get more done later today :)

kbrennan7654
May 24, 2008, 07:59 AM
what about transport helicopters, transport planes, and we should add alot more units

SoI
May 25, 2008, 05:27 AM
I think that several types of cruise missiles should be included(nowadays the greatest threat for warships are surface skimming supersonic cruise missiles with either conventional or nuclear warheads, for example russian Sunburn missiles fly at speed of Mach 2 giving ship only 20-30 seconds to respond) as long as some several stages of their development(like undersonic and supersonic)



Also, I can provide any needed information on Russian/Soviet and Post-Soviet States weaponry and suggest probable units...

ianinsane
May 31, 2008, 07:21 AM
I guess I am a minority here but I don't see the sense in having too many slightly different unit types. It makes the game complicated and is no fun for me. That's just something for military masturbators... ;)
Concerning cruise missiles I guess two types would be enough. One basic, very cheap, which could also be used by Barbarians. (Is it possible to produce 2 units per turn in a city? Because I see these basic missiles as so cheap that it would waste a lot of hammers in an advanced city if it can only produce one per turn) And one advanced with larger range. Large enough for North Korea to hit Alaska...

SoI
May 31, 2008, 11:32 AM
I've just read the Armies thread and i realized that there was one unit i missed in BTS very much it was mobile tactical nuke land carrier. These units should be very costly cause they are more deadly than silo nukes( nobody knows from where they can strike)

fahrenderfisch
Jun 13, 2008, 05:14 AM
Hi, hope you don't mind a newby posting some stuff...

You really have awsome ideas!!!

unfortunately I have only little time, otherwise I would've liked to join your team.

Reason I'm responding here:
1) Missiles:
I like the Idea of Barbarians having low-cost Missiles, but I would not call them cruise-Missile, since I know no Terrorist-group or third world Country that has managed to build a "REAL" Cruise Missile. Think it's better to just call this group "missiles"
that's how I'd like to do it in my mod, Maybe you like the Idea:
-Man launched Missiles: no movement, can only be carried by soldiers, cheap
-Sea Target Missiles, fast, direkt flying, bonus against ships.
-(unguided) Missiles: wider air range, powerful, but high chance of being intercepted, low combat limit, collateral damage
-Cruise Missiles: like we know them, but also wider air range
Promotions for Missiles (can be given from Science Lab or similar in the Missile constructing City)
-accuracy (lower combat and collateral demag limit ,or a new xml tag "accuracy" chance of hiting a square beside the target, but that would probably be a big hack in the SDK)
-advanced range
-improved warhead (cause collateral damage)
(because of better rocket power it is eather able to fly wider or carry more load)
-evasion Probability +15 (by default not set at 100% normal: 65, cruise: 85)
(I think the building should give XP to the rocket, so that it can have ONE promotion, don't know yet how to make this possible)

2) Today's Soldiers
Are you going to change the Infantery System?
I Think it should be adapted to our times!
Since Camouflage is widely used and improved consantly (new invisible class). Or Drones are no future Imagination , they are in use and getting more and more important(either Promotion like the "fireball" in FFH Age of Ice or the "eye", OR creating Drone Units which can be carried by soldiers, or both combined).
And the different Future Infantery Programs become more advanced and already show theire Power in Field-testings or are even partially in use.

Got a system worked out, but not in english, but will translate it anyway since I want to look for help here.

hevehoc
Jul 06, 2008, 02:50 PM
Land Units:
Modern Armor
AFV
New Class, default mechanized infantry, but now counts as armor, not gunpowder
Jet Fighter
Stealth Bomber
Marine
Anti-Tank
SAM
Paratrooper
Conscripted Soldiers

Air Units:
Gunship

Sea Units:
Carrier: Big and small maybe
Attack Sub:
Nuclear sub: Carries missiles
Destroyer: Air defence; can see subs
Frigates: Anti sub; could be merged with destroyer

Other Miscellaneous Units:

Whoa Jet Fighter as a land unit :confused:?

any unique units?

hevehoc
Jul 19, 2008, 01:03 PM
Shall we create a different thread for unique units or shall we post it here?

sheep21
Jul 21, 2008, 10:34 AM
there is massive variance in the standard of infantry and there capabilities aswell as cost.

it is more expensive\time consuming to train a soldier in the British Army compared to say the Afgan National Army.
Perhaps we can represent this by longer build times\stronger combat odds for a well equipped infantry soldier vs short build times and weak combat odds for troops from 2nd n 3rd world militaries (8 turns vs 3 turns or the like as base rate)?

This will relfect accurately the high expense of training and maintaining a modern and technologically advanced western style military in comparison to the relative inexpensive of poorly trained, mediocrely (is that a word?) equiped armies of many armed forces around the world.

Amogos
Jul 26, 2008, 01:17 PM
Lots of ideas are here but are all over the place so what do we have so far? I also unique units for America: Abrams Tank

hevehoc
Jul 26, 2008, 03:15 PM
yes the Abrams tank would be a very good choice i think.

Amogos
Jul 26, 2008, 10:15 PM
Israel's UU should be the Merkava (Desert Warfair Tank) and anouther unit: APC

sheep21
Jul 29, 2008, 11:46 AM
Unique Unites eh?
UK:
Army
Challenger II MBT
FV510 Warrior AFV
AS-90 155-mm self-propelled howitzer
L118 Light Gun
Rapier FSC SAM
FV101 Scorpion light tank


RAF\Fleet Air Arm\Army Air Corps
Eurofighter Typhoon FGR4
Tornado GR4
BAE Harrier GR9A
Westland WAH-64 Apache
Westland Lynx

Royal Navy\Royal Fleet Auxillary
Type 45 DD
Astute Class SSN
Invincible Class CV upgraded to Queen Elisabeth Class CV in 2014
Trafalgar class SSN
Vanguard Class SSBN
Type 42 DD
Type 23 FF
Albion Class Landins Ship Dock
Ocean Class Landing Ship Helicopter


EU

EU Ground Forces
Leopard II

EU Naval Forces:
Charles De Gaulle Class Nuclear CV supplemented by PA2 (Future French aircraft carrier) possibly
Horizon class Destroyer (although officialy called frigates)
Type 212 submarine
Mistral class amphibious assault ship
Le Triomphant class SSN

EU Airfcraft:
Rafael (Naval Version)
Eurofighter Typhoon

just a start, if the armed forces are going to be of a similiar detail level of those in world 2004

Amogos
Jul 29, 2008, 03:16 PM
Can we make a spy unit that fights when it gets caught? Like a Ghost Unit.

sheep21
Jul 31, 2008, 10:10 AM
Can we make a spy unit that fights when it gets caught? Like a Ghost Unit.



how about make it so that if the spy mission fails theres a 50% it will commit suicide to avoid capture, if it suceeds the country you attacked doesnt know who it was and no diplomatic -points?

Amogos
Jul 31, 2008, 01:27 PM
I was thinking that when a Ghost lands on an enemy tile there would be a 30% chance of getting caught, if it does get caught then it would attack the unit like regular combat.

hevehoc
Jul 31, 2008, 02:21 PM
will the enemy know whos spy unit it is when the battle commences?

Amogos
Jul 31, 2008, 11:06 PM
50% chance.

hevehoc
Aug 01, 2008, 01:31 AM
sounds like a fair chance.

Gooblah
Aug 02, 2008, 12:02 PM
Air Units

Joint Strike Fighter (this is the generic term for next-gen fighters, not specifically American)
Stealth Bomber
Jet Bomber
Jet Fighter
Helicopter Gunship
Air Transport Vessel - can airlift 4 units

Naval Units

Submarine
Destroyer
Frigate
Aircraft Carrier
Cruiser
Amphibious Assault Vessel (Landing Craft)

Missiles

Missiles should have the ability to sink ships, not damage them. Submarines tend to pose the greatest threat to modern-day navies, due to the prevalence of shallow-water naval operations (and the greater stealth capabilities of modern subs). Missiles can wreak havoc on carrier groups if the submarine is not detected early enough. Thus, Submarines should have the ability to carry Missiles, and use them.

NikNaks
Aug 02, 2008, 12:03 PM
All good ideas :goodjob:

Nukes
How about the Nuclear Arsenal (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=274271) mod?

sheep21
Aug 03, 2008, 02:28 PM
Air Units

Joint Strike Fighter (this is the generic term for next-gen fighters, not specifically American)
Stealth Bomber
Jet Bomber
Jet Fighter
Helicopter Gunship
Air Transport Vessel - can airlift 4 units

Naval Units

Submarine
Destroyer
Frigate
Aircraft Carrier
Cruiser
Amphibious Assault Vessel (Landing Craft)

Missiles

Missiles should have the ability to sink ships, not damage them. Submarines tend to pose the greatest threat to modern-day navies, due to the prevalence of shallow-water naval operations (and the greater stealth capabilities of modern subs). Missiles can wreak havoc on carrier groups if the submarine is not detected early enough. Thus, Submarines should have the ability to carry Missiles, and use them.


bear in mind there will have to a huuuge variation in the quailty of the various units available. Irans two baic 1970's frigates would be eaten alive by any western naval vessel.

Gooblah
Aug 04, 2008, 07:48 AM
True. I'm just thrwoing those out there as basic unit platforms from which to make Unique Units.

NikNaks
Aug 04, 2008, 07:52 AM
Yes, and for that it seems to work well. Perhaps we could do with a few extra classes, though.

sheep21
Aug 04, 2008, 03:15 PM
An edited listy with some example classes, the countries are those who researched\originally produced them and may differ from current users:

Air Units
5th Generation Jet Fighter:
- F-35 Lighting II\JCA (US\UK\Italy) (In low level production)
- F-22 Raptor (US) (Only 5th generation in service)

4.5th Generation Jet Fighter
- Eurofighter Typhoon (UK\Germany\Spain\Italy)
- F/A-18E/F Super Hornet (US)
- F-16 Block 50/52 and later models (US)
- Chengdu J-10 (PRC)

4th Generation Jet Fighter
- Panavia Tornado (UK\Germany\Italy)
- JF-17 Thunder (PRC\Pakistan)
- Sukhoi Su-27 (USSR)
- Mikoyan MiG-31 (USSR)
- Dassault Mirage 2000 (France)
- F-16 Fighting Falcon
- F/A-18 Hornet (US)

3rd Generation Jet Fighter (Most likely the most basic types to be seen in the game seen mainly in African countries, they should be non buildable starting units to reflect the fact none of the countries with the capability to build them no longer do so)
- Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21MF/bis 'Fishbed' (USSR)
- Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-23 'Flogger' (USSR)
- Sukhoi Su-17 'Fitter' (USSR)
- F4 Phantom II (US)
- Northrop F-5 (US)

Stealth Bomber
- B-2 Spirit (US) - ONLY Stealth Bomber in service and with no non US designs even in development, stealth bomber should be a US UU.

Strategic Bombers
- Tupolev Tu-22M (USSR)
- B-52 Stratofortress(US)
- Tupolev Tu-95\Tupolev Tu-142 (USSR)
- General Dynamics F-111 (US)
- Tupolev Tu-160 (USSR\Russian Federation)

Helicopter Gunship

- AH-64 Apache (US) - Westland WAH-64 Apache (UK)
- Eurocopter Tiger (Germany\Austria\French\Spain)
- Kamov Ka-50 (USSR)
- AH-1 Cobra (US)
- Mil Mi-24 (USSR)
- Mil Mi-28 (USSR)

Air Transport Vessel
- Lockheed C-130 Hercules (US) (medium range & 2 unit airlift)
- Airbus A400M (EU) (medium range & 3 unit airlift)
- C-17 Globemaster III (US) (Medium Range & 3 Unit Airlift)
- Lockheed C-5 Galaxy (US) (Long Range & 4 unit airlift)
- Antonov An-124 (USSR) (Long Range & 4 unit airlift)

hevehoc
Aug 04, 2008, 04:27 PM
i think that the swedish (hope you don't think i'm too patriotic XD ) SAAB JAS 39 Gripen (JAS would be = Jakt (Fighter), Attack, Spaning (Recognizing).

sheep21
Aug 05, 2008, 06:22 AM
i think that the swedish (hope you don't think i'm too patriotic XD ) SAAB JAS 39 Gripen (JAS would be = Jakt (Fighter), Attack, Spaning (Recognizing).

not being too patriotic, I have left out plenty of aircraft as there are just so many. As I recall sweden is doing a nice little export trade off'f the back of that paticular aircraft.

I think in future I will do the list so it includes manufacturer & current users.

sheep21
Aug 05, 2008, 11:02 AM
Right, from now on its going to be thus:

Unit (country where built) (current users) - notes


Naval Units

SSN: Attack Submarine (Nuclear-Powered) - some of the most modern ones can carry Cruise Missiles for land attack
- Astute class submarine (UK) (UK) (first boat in commission 2009)
- Trafalger Class submarine (UK) (UK) - non buildable starting unit
- Swifture class submarine (UK) (UK) - non buildable starting unit
- Virginia class submarine (US) (US)
- Seawolf class submarine (US) (US) - non buildable starting unit
- Los Angeles class submarine (US) (US) -non buildable starting unit
- Graney class submarine (Russian Federation) (Russia) (in service 2010)
- Akula class submarine (USSR) (Russia\India) - non buildable starting unit
- Sierra I&II class submarine (USSR) (Russia) - non buildable starting unit
- Victor III class submarine (USSR) (Russia) - non buildable starting unit
- Barracuda class submarine (France) (France) (first boat in commision 2016)
- Rubis class submarine (France) (France) - non buildable starting unit
- Type 093 submarine (PRC) (PRC)
- Type 091 submarine (PRC) (PRC) - non buildable starting unit

SSBN: Ballistic Missile Submarine (Nuclear-Powered) - Carries 6 SLMBM's
- Vanguard class submarine (UK) (UK) - non buildable starting unit
- Ohio class submarine (US) (US) - non buildable starting unit
- Borei class submarine (Russian Federation) (Russia) - first commisioned 2008
- Red October Class (USSR) (US) - non buildable starting unit :D :lol:
- Typhoon class submarine (USSR) (Russia) - non building starting unit
- Delta III & IV classes (USSR) (Russia) - non buildable starting unit
- Le Triomphant class submarine (France) (France)
- Type 094 submarine (PRC) (PRC)
- Type 092 submarine (PRC) (PRC) - non buildable starting unit
- Advanced Technology Vessel (India) (India) - commisioned in 2012

SS: Attack Submarine (Diesel-Electric Power) - some of the most modern classes can carry cruise missiles for land attack
- Lada class submarine (Russia) (Russia)
- Kilo class submarine (USSR\Russia) (Russia\Algeria\PRC\India\Indonesia (arriving 09)\Iran\Poland\Romania) - non buildable starting unit
- Romeo class submarine (USSR) (Russia\PRC\Bulgaria\China\Syria\Egypt\ Nrth Korea) - non buildable starting unit
- Foxtrot Class (USSR) (India\
- Type 214 submarine (Germany) (South Korea\Greece (due to commision soon)\Turkey)
- Type 212 submarine (Germany)
- Dolphin class submarine (Germany) (Israel) - non buildable starting unit
Ula class submarine (Germany) (Norway - non buildable starting unit
- Type 209 submarine (all sub classes produced by Germany)
-1500 (Brazil\India\Portugal (in service 2009))
-1400 (Brazil\Chile\South Africa\Turkey)
-1300 (Ecuador)
-1200 (Colombia\Greece\Indonesia\South Korea\Peru\Turkey\Venezula)
-1100 (Argentina\Peru\Greece)
- Type 206 submarine (Germany\Italy) (Germany\Italy)
- Södermanland\Västergötland class submarine (Sweden\Singapore) - non buildable unit
Gotland class submarine (Germany) (Sweden) - non buildable starting unit
- Kobben class submarine (Germany) (Poland) - non buildable starting unit
- Collins class submarine (Australia) (Australia) - non buildable starting unit
- Upholder\Victoria Class Submarine (UK) (Canada) - non buildable starting unit
- Scorpène class submarine (France\Spain\under licence in India) (Chile\India\Malaysia)
- Daphné class submarine (France) (Albacora class Portugal) -Non buildable starting unit
- Agosta 90B class submarine (France) (Spain\Pakistan) - non buildable starting unit
- Tench class submarine (US) (Taiwan) - non buildable starting unit
- Nahang class submarine (Iran) (Iran)
- Yugo class submarine (Iran) (Iran) - non buildable starting unit
- Sauro class submarine (Italy) (Italy) - non buildable starting unit
- Harushio class submarine (Japan) (Japan) - non buildable starting unit
- Oyashio class submarine (Japan) (Japan) - last boat commisioned in 2008
- Walrus class submarine (Netherlands) (Netherlands) - non buildable starting unit
- Hai Lung\ Zwaardvis class submarine (Netherlands) (Taiwan) - non buildable starting unit
- S-80 class Submarine (Spain\UK) (Spain) -in service 2011-2014

bloody hell that took me 2 hours! :eek:

there is an alternative to non buildable thing, for more recent units the player can decide to build more of them however the first unit built of that paticular class will take 5 times the build time what any following unit of the same class would take, this will acurately reflect the real problems and expense of setting up an entire production line\machining parts\r+r & training.

although for all units pre 1990 I feel that they should not be buildable at all, it would be illogical to build 18+ designs if newer ones are available

NikNaks
Aug 05, 2008, 11:06 AM
- Red October Class (USSR) (US) - non buildable starting unit"I am a russhian sshea captain" :lol:

Ah, classic.

You're doing an excellent job. It's really appreciated. :goodjob: I'll update the OPs and add some better formatting to make them easily legible.

NikNaks
Aug 05, 2008, 11:53 AM
There we go. Done. There's just one error I found:

- Foxtrot Class (USSR) (India\

Was the slash meant to be a close bracket or did you not finish the entry?

EDIT: Does anyone want to volunteer to amalgamate sheep's data with Joe's, overnight or tomorrow (i.e. adding the number of units in service)? If not, I'll do it on Thursday.

sheep21
Aug 05, 2008, 12:43 PM
Naval Units Contd.

Cruisers:
- De Zeven Provinciën class cruiser (Netherlands) (Peru) - non buildable starting unit
- Ticonderoga class Missile cruiser (US) (US) - non buildable starting unit
- Jeanne d'Arc (R 97) helicopter cruiser (France) (France) - non buildable starting unit
- Kirov class battlecruiser (USSR) (Russian Federation) - non buildable starting unit

Destroyers:
- Tyep 45 Destroyer (UK) (UK)
- Type 42 Destroyer (UK) (UK\Argentina) - non buildable starting unit
- MEKO 360 (Germany) (Argentina\Nigeria) - non buildable starting unit
- Iroquois class destroyer (Canada) (Canada) - non buildable starting unit
- Udaloy class destroyer (USSR) (Russia)
- Kara class cruiser (USSR) (Russia) - comparable to a DD in strength - non buildable starting unit
- Kashin class destroyer (USSR) (Russia) - non buildable starting unit
- Sovremenny class destroyer (USSR\Russian Federation) (Russia\PRC)
- Kolkata class destroyer (India) (India) - first ship enters service 2010
- Delhi class destroyer (India) (India) - non buildable starting unit
- Rajput class destroyer (Russia) (India) - non buildable starting unit
- Type 051C destroyer (PRC) (PRC)
- Type 052C destroyer (PRC) (PRC) - non buildable starting unit
- Type 052B destroyer (PRC) (PRC) - non buildable starting unit
- Type 051B destroyer (PRC) (PRC) - non buildable starting unit
- Type 052 destroyer (PRC) (PRC) - non buildable starting unit
- Type 051 destroyer (PRC) (PRC) - non buildable starting unit
- Horizon class frigate (France\Italy) (France\Italy) - comparable size and power to DD -non buildable starting unit
- Tourville class frigate (France) (France) - comparable size and power to DD -non buildable starting unit
- Durand de la Penne class destroyer (Italy) (Italy) - non buildable starting unit
- Gearing class destroyer (US) (Mexico) - non buildable starting unit
- Edsall-class destroyer escort (US) (Mexico) - non buildable starting unit
- Atago class destroyer (Japan) (Japan)
- Takanami class destroyer (Japan) (Japan) - non buildable starting unit
- Murasame class destroyer (Japan) (Japan) - non buildable starting unit
- Kongō class destroyer (Japan) (Japan) - non buildable starting unit
- Asagiri class destroyer (Japan) (Japan) - non buildable starting unit
- Hatakaze class destroyer (Japan) (Japan) - non buildable starting unit
- Hatsuyuki class destroyer (Japan) (Japan) - non buildable starting unit
- Shirane class destroyer (Japan) (Japan) - non buildable starting unit
- Gwanggaeto the Great class destroyer (South Korea) (South Korea) - non buildable starting unit
- Chungmugong Yi Sun-sin class destroyer (South Korea) (South Korea)
- King Sejong the Great class destroyer (South Korea) (South Korea) - first ship commisioned 2008
- Arleigh Burke class destroyer (US) (US)
- Zumwalt class destroyer (US) (US) -first and only 2 units laid down in 2008
- Kidd class destroyer (US) (Taiwan) - non buildable starting unit

sheep21
Aug 05, 2008, 12:45 PM
There we go. Done. There's just one error I found:

- Foxtrot Class (USSR) (India\

Was the slash meant to be a close bracket or did you not finish the entry?

EDIT: Does anyone want to volunteer to amalgamate sheep's data with Joe's, overnight or tomorrow (i.e. adding the number of units in service)? If not, I'll do it on Thursday.


yes its meant to be a closed bracket

oops, there is also one in Ukranian service.

so it should read:
-foxtrot class (USSR) (India\Ukraine)

NikNaks
Aug 05, 2008, 12:53 PM
Ah, thanks. Say, do you want to amalgamate the data?

sheep21
Aug 05, 2008, 12:56 PM
With what? or do you mean into one list?

NikNaks
Aug 05, 2008, 12:57 PM
Well, if you see the first page, he's listed some of the classes with the number of units in operation. Can you merge those into your list? I don't have time to merge them myself right now.

sheep21
Aug 05, 2008, 01:03 PM
yeah sure, but i dont have the ability to post it on the front page


thanks for tidying up my lists and making them look pretty

btw, added you on msn as jabber isnt working for me, hope you dont mind.

NikNaks
Aug 05, 2008, 01:08 PM
That's absolutely fine. Oh, I think my MSN has changed. Replace the "93" with "_home" and that's my current one.

sheep21
Aug 05, 2008, 04:20 PM
Naval Forces Contd.
Key: - Class (Country of construction) (current operators) - in service as of 2008- notes
Frigates:
- Espora class frigate (Germany) (Argentina) - 6 - non buildable starting unit
- Adelaide class frigate (US) (Aust) - 4 - non buildable starting unit
- ANZAC class frigate (Aust\NZ) (Aust\NZ) - 8\2 - non buildable starting unit
-Type 053 frigate (PRC) (PRC\Bangladesh\Thailand\Egypt) - 32\1\4\2 -non buildable starting unit
- Type 053H3 frigate (PRC) (PRC) - 14 - non buildable starting unit
- Type 054 frigate (PRC) (PRC) - 6 - non buildable starting unit
- Type 23 frigate (UK) (UK\Chile) - 13\3 - non buildable start unit
- Type 22 frigate (UK) (UK\Brazil\Chile\Romania) - 4\4\1\2 non buildable start unit
- Type 41 frigate (UK) (Bangladesh) - 2 - non buildable start unit
- Type 61 Frigate (UK) (Bangladesh) - 2 - non buildable start unit
- Leander class frigate (UK\India under licence) (Ecuador\Pakistan\India) - 2\2\3 - non buildable start unit
- DW 2000H Class Frigate (South Korea) (Bangladesh) - 1 - non buildable start unit
- Wielingen class frigate (Belgium) (Bulgaria) - 3 -non buildable starting unit
- Niteroi class frigate (UK) (Brazil) - 7 - non buildable starting unit
- Garcia class frigate (US) (Brazil) - 4 - non buildable starting unit
- Oliver Hazard Perry class frigate (US & under licence in Spain\Taiwan) (US\Turkey\Spain\Taiwan\Poland\Egypt\Bahrain) - 30\8+2 hulks\6\8\2\4\1 - non buildable start unit
- Koni class frigate (USSR) (Algeria\Bulgaria Egypt) - 3\1\2 - non buildable start unit
- Halifax class frigate (Canada) (Canada) - 12 - non buildable start unit
- Karel Doorman class frigate (Netherlands) (Belgium\Chile\Netherlands\Portugal) - 2\2\2\2 - non buildable start unit
- Jacob van Heemskerck class frigate (Netherlands) (Chile) - 2 - non buildable start unit
- Almirante Padilla class frigate (Germany) (Thailand) - 4 - non buildable start unit
- Thetis class ocean patrol vessel (Denmark) (Denmark) - 4 - non buildable start unit
- Knox class frigate (US) (Turkey\Mexico\Thailand\Egypt\Taiwan - 12\4\2\2\8 - non buildable start unit
- Floréal class frigate (France) (France\Morroco) - 6\2 - non buildable start unit
- La Fayette class frigate (France\licence built in singapore) (France\Taiwan\Singapore\Saudi Arabia) - 5\6\6\3 -
- Commandant Rivière class frigate (France) (Uruguay) - 3 - non buildable start unit
- Georges Leygues class frigate (France) (France) - 7 - non buildable start unit
- Cassard class frigate (France) (France) - 2 - non buildable start unit
- Bremen class frigate (Germany) (Germany) - 8 - non buildable start unit
- Brandenburg class frigate (Germany) (Germany) - 4 - non buildable start unit
- Sachsen class frigate (Germany) (Germany) - 3 -
- Kortenaer class frigate (Netherlands) (Greece\UAE) - 10\2 - non buildable start unit
- Shivalik class frigate (India) (India) - 3 - first commisioned 2008
- Talwar class frigate (Russia) (India) - 3 - 3 more ordered
- Brahmaputra class frigate (India) (India) - 3 - non buildable start unit
- Godavari class frigate (India) (India) - 3 - non buildable start unit
- Tribal class frigate (UK) (Indonesia) - 3 - non buildable start unit
- Van Speijk class frigate (Netherlands) (Indonesia) - 6 - non buildable start unit
- Alvand class frigate (UK) (Iran) - 3 - non buildable start unit
- Moudge class frigate (Iran) (Iran) - 4 - of which 1 is still building
- Lupo class frigate (Italy) (Peru\Venezula\Italy) - 8\6\4 - non buildable start unit
- Maestrale class frigate (Italy) (Italy) - 8 - non buildable starting unit
- Yubari class destroyer escort (Japan) (Japan) - 2 - non buildable starting unit
- Abukuma class destroyer escort (Japan) (Japan) - 6 - non buildable starting unit
- Lekiu class frigate (UK) (Malaysia) - 2 - non buildable starting unit
- Kasturi class frigate (Germany) (Malaysia) - 2 - non buildable start unit
- Bronstein class frigate (US) (Mexico) - 2 - non buildable start unit
- Descubierta class frigate (Spain) (Spain\Egypt\Morroco) - 5\2\1 - non buildable unit
- De Zeven Provinciën class frigate (Netherlands) (Netherlands) - 4 - non buildable start unit
- Fridtjof Nansen class frigate (Spain) (Norway) - 5 - full complement by 2010
- Soho class frigate (North Korea) (North Korea) - 1 - possiby experimental
- Najin class frigate (North Korea) (North Korea) - 2 - non buildable start unit
- Type 21 frigate (UK) (Pakistan) - 6 - non buildable start unit
- Cannon class destroyer escort (US) (Philippines) - 1 - non buildable start unit
- Vasco da Gama class frigate (Germany) (Portugal) - 3 - non buildable start unit
- Marasesti class frigate (Romania) (Romania) - 1 - non buildable start unit
- Rear-Admiral Eustaţiu Sebastian class frigate (Romania) (Romania) - 2 - classed by NATO as corvettes - non buildable start unit
- Admiral Petre Bărbuneanu class frigate (Romania) (Romania) - 2 - classed by NATO as corvettes - non buildable start unit
- Riga class frigate (USSR) (Bulgaria) - 3 - non buildable start units
- Petya class frigate (USSR) (Vietname\Syria) - 6\2 - non buildable start unit
- Krivak class frigate (USSR) (Russia\Ukraine) - 16\1 - non buildable start unit
- Neustrashimy class frigate (USSR\Russia) (Russia) - 2 - lates Russian Frigate
- Ulsan class frigate (South Korea) (South Korea) - 9 - non buildable start unit
- Álvaro de Bazán class frigate (Spain) (Spain) - 4 - 2 more building
- Tartarstan/Gepard class frigate (Russia) (Russia\Vietnam) - 1\4 - Vietnamese ships on order

. .. .. .. . me im done for the night!

W.A
Aug 06, 2008, 10:42 AM
Royal Australian Air Force:
Bomber F-111
Electronic warfare Boeing 737 AEW&C
Fighter F/A-18 Hornet
Patrol AP-3C Orion
Reconnaissance RF-111
Trainer PC-9, Hawk 127, B300
Transport C-130 Hercules, DHC-Caribou, C-17 Globemaster III, Boeing 737, Challenger 600

Royal Australian Navy
Anzac class Frigate- Anti-submarine and anti-aircraft with 1 SH-60 Seahawk

Adelaide class Frigate- Anti-submarine and anti-aircraft frigate with 2 S-70B-2 Seahawk helicopters

Armidale class Patrol boat- Coastal defence and fishery protection

Collins class Submarine- Diesel-electric powered patrol submarines for deep ocean patrols

Kanimbla class LP- troop & helicoper transport (Westland Sea King and UH-60 Black Hawk)

Australian Army
When the reorganisation is complete it is planned that the Army will be able to form battlegroups based around the following formations:

* 1st Battalion, Royal Australian Regiment, Light infantry Battalion
* 2nd Battalion, Royal Australian Regiment, Light infantry Battalion
* 3rd Battalion, Royal Australian Regiment, Light infantry Battalion
* 5th Battalion, Royal Australian Regiment, Mechanised Infantry Battalion
* 6th Battalion, Royal Australian Regiment, Motorised infantry Battalion
* 7th Battalion, Royal Australian Regiment, Mechanised Infantry Battalion
* 8th/9th Battalion, Royal Australian Regiment, Motorised Infantry Battalion
* 1st Armoured Regiment, Armoured Regiment
* 2nd Cavalry Regiment, Formation Reconnaissance Regiment
* 2nd/14th Light Horse Regiment, Formation Reconnaissance Regiment
* 1st Aviation Regiment, Attack helicopter Regiment

By the end of this process in approximately 2015, 1 Brigade will be the army's major mechanised formation. In addition, 1st Division/DJHQ will be reduced to three brigades, with 11 Brigade, a wholly Army Reserve formation, being transferred to the 2nd Division. The armoured units of the Army Reserve in 2nd Division will be restructured, with four becoming pure light cavalry and the fifth being utilised in the armoured lift role.

Battle Tank- M1A1 Abrams A.I.M.

sheep21
Aug 06, 2008, 01:49 PM
NAVAL FORCES Contd.

Key: Ship Class (Builders) (current operators) - No. in service as of 200 - notes

CVN: Multi-purpose Aircraft Carrier (Nuclear-Propulsion) (12 Fighter sized Aircraft +4 helo + 2AWACS)
- Gerald R. Ford class aircraft carrier (US) (US) - - 1 building, 3 planned, first in service 2015
- Nimitz class aircraft carrier (US) (US) - 9 - 1 more currently building (in service 2009)
- Enterprise Class Aircraft Carrier (US) (US) - 1 - non buildable starting unit
- Charles de Gaulle Class Class Aircraft Carrier (France) (France) - 1 - 6 Fighter+2Helo+AWAC non buildable start unit

CV: Multi-purpose Aircraft Carrier
- Kitty Hawk class aircraft carrier (US) (US) - 1 - 12 Fighter+4Helo+2AWAC non buildable start unit
- Queen Elizabeth class Aircraft Carrier (UK) (UK) - - 6fighter+2helo+1AWAC 2 ordered, in commision by 2014
- Invincible class aircraft carrier (UK) (UK) - 2 - 4Fighter+2Helo one more of class in mothballs non buildable start unit
Centaur class aircraft carrier (UK) (India) - 1 - 4Fighter+2Helo
- Vikrant class aircraft carrier (India) (India) - - 6Fighter+2Helo first of two due to enter service 2012
- Clemenceau class Aircraft Carrier (France) (Brazil) - 1 - 6Fighter+4Helo non buildable start unit
- Kiev class aircraft carrier (USSR) (India) - - 4Fighter+2Helo (due in service 2012 after heavy rebuild)
- - Cavour Class Aircraft Carrier (Italy) (Italy) - 1 - 4Fighter+2Helo due in service 2008
- Giuseppe Garibaldi Class Aircraft Carrier (Italy) (Italy) - 1 - 2 Fighter+2Helo non buildable start unit
- Admiral Kuznetsov class aircraft carrier (USSR) (Russia) - 1 - 4Fighter+4Helo non buildable start unit
- Príncipe de Asturias class Aircraft Carrier (Spain) (Spain) - 1 - 4Fighter+2Helo non buildable start unit
- Chakri Naruebet class aircraft Carrier (Spain) (Thailand) - 1 - 2Fighter+1Helo worlds smallest CV non buildable start unit
- Hyūga class helicopter destroyer (Japan) (Japan) - 0 - 6Helo first entering service in 2009

carriers done:D

edit: Have not included Future French Carrier as its been suspended and looks like it may well be cancelled by the current goverment

sheep21
Aug 06, 2008, 02:50 PM
NAVAL FORCES Cont.d
Key:- Ship Class (Builders) (current operators) - No. in service as of 200 -
- Equipment - Cargo Space - notes
Amphibious assault ships:

- Mistral class amphibious assault ship (France) (France) - 2 -
-- 6 Helo+4Landing Craft - 8 Units
- Dokdo class amphibious assault ship (Sth Korea) (Sth Korea) - 1 -
-- 4 Helo+2Landing Craft - 6 Units - 2 more planned.
- Juan Carlos Class amphibious assault ship (Spain) (Spain) - 1 -
-- CV Mode: 4Fighter+2Helo
-- AAS Mode: 4 Helo+4Landing Craft - 8 Units
- Ocean Class amphibious assault ship (UK) (UK) - 1 -
-- 6Helo+4Landing Craft - 8 Units - Infantry only & non buildable start unit
-Wasp class amphibious assault ship (US) (US) - 7 -
-- Upto 8 Air Units+3Landing Craft - 16 Units - 1 more in class due in 2009
- Tarawa class amphibious assault ship (US) (US) - 3 -
-- 8 Helo+ 3 Landing Craft - 16 Units - non buildable start unit


next to come are Amhibious transport docks.

sheep21
Aug 06, 2008, 03:26 PM
Key:- Ship Class (Builders) (current operators) - No. in service as of 2008 -
- Equipment - Cargo Space - notes

Amphibious transport dock A.K.A- landing platform dock\LPD:

- Type 071 amphibious transport dock (PRC) (PRC) - 1 -
-- 2 Helo+4LandingCraft - 6 Units -
- Foudre class landing platform dock (France) (France) - 2 -
-- 2Helo+4LandingCraft - 8 Units - non buildable starting unit
- Austin class amphibious transport dock (US) (US\India) - 6\1 -
-- 2 Helo+4Landing Craft - 8 Units - non buildable starting unit
- San Giorgio class amphibious transport dock (Italy) (Italy) - 3 -
-- 2Helo+4Landing Craft - 8 Units - non buildable starting unit
- Ōsumi class LST (Japan) (Japan) - 3 -
-- 2 Helo+2Landing Craft - 4 Units - non buildable starting unit
- Rotterdam class amphibious transport dock (Netherlands\Spain) (Netherlands\Spain) - 1\2 -
-- 3 Helo+3LandingCraft - 4 units - non buildable starting unit



to be continued...

Bahmo
Oct 13, 2008, 12:05 AM
It might be a good time to remind you that I still think that as opposed to actual coded unique units, we should use "National construction nodes," that is, collections of classical architecture placed in the city. That would not only be a good way to add flavor; it would also allow ccountries controlled by foreign powers to still have unique units. So for example, with a Chinese node in Shanghai, it would train Chinese units (just like a Budhist monastary enables Budhist missionaries), regardless of who controls the city at the time.

sheep21
Oct 20, 2008, 03:52 AM
Key:- Unit Name (Builders) (current operators) - No. in service as of 2008 - notes

Ground Forces

All vehicles in this section have the real world numbers in service listed. It is my belief that every 10 real world tanks should represent 1 civ 4 tank. So North Korea has 1600 T-55's, in game they have 160. I think thats a fair system?

Main Battle Tanks

Notes - Non buildable starting unit , easily destroyed by most tanks produced post 1980's and by all modern infantry.

- AMX-30 - (France)
-- Operators
--- Bosnia - 52
--- Cyprus - 102
--- Qatar - 24
--- Saudia Arabia - 290
--- United Arab Emirates - 64
--- Venzuela - 82

Notes - Non buildable starting unit

- Al-Zarrar - (USSR\Pakistan)
-- Operators
--- Pakistan - 320

Notes - New tank on a T-55 Chasis

- Al-Khalid tank (Pakistan)
-- Operators
--- Pakistan 350

- Notes - Buildable unit, indigenous design based on chinese Type 90.

- Ariete - (Italy)
-- Operators
--- Italy - 200

Notes - Buildable unit.

- Arjun MBT - (India)
-- Operators
--- India - 64
Notes - Buildable Unit

- Centurion MBT (UK)
-- Operators
--- Singapore - 60

Notes - Non-Buildable starting unit

- Ch'ŏnma-ho (North Korea)
-- Operators
--- North Korea - 700

Notes: numbers arent known for sure due to NK's secrecy.

- Challenger 1 (United Kingdom)
-- Operators
--- Jordan - 392

Notes - Non-buildable starting unit

- Challenger 2 (United Kingdom)
-- Operators
--- 38 - Oman
--- 366 - United Kingdom

Notes - Non-buildable starting unit

- Chieftan (United Kingdom)
-- Operators
--- 100 - Iran

Notes - Non-buildable starting unit.

- K1 88-Tank (South Korea)
-- Operators
--- 1000 - South Korea

Notes - None

- K2 Black Panther (South Korea)
-- Operators
--- 0 - South Korea

Notes - full scale production begins 2009

- Leclerc (France)
-- Operators
--- 406 - France
--- 388 - United Arab Emirates

Notes - production ended 2008 so technically still buildable?

- Leopard 1 (West Germany)
-- Operators
--- 132 - Belgium
--- 368 - Brazil
--- 66 - Canada
--- 202 - Chile
--- 502 - Greece
--- 120 - Italy
--- 43 - Lebanon
--- 20 - Norway
--- 394 - Turkey

Notes - Non-buildable starting unit

- Leopard 2 (Germany)
-- Operators
--- 114 - Austria
--- 132 - Chile
--- 214 - Canada
--- 57 - Denmark
--- 91 - Finland
--- 408 - Germany
--- 366 - Greece
--- 110 - Netherlands
--- 52 - Norway
--- 128 - Poland
--- 37 - Portugal
--- 66 - Singapore
--- 327 - Spain
--- 122 - Sweden
--- 380 - Switzerland
--- 339 - Turkey

Notes - various different sub-models of above tank.

- M-84 (Yugoslavia)
-- Operators
--- 212 - Serbia
--- 149 - Kuwait
--- 16 - Bosnia and Herzegovina
--- 80 - Croatia
--- 54 - Slovenia

Notes - Non-Buildable starting unit

- M1 Abrams (United States of America)
-- Operators
--- 59 - Australia
--- 1005 - Egypt
--- 218 - Kuwait
--- 388 - Saudi Arabia
--- 5970 - United States of America

Notes - still in production, US tanks upgraded to M1A2 standard.

- M48 Patton (United States of America)
-- Operators
--- 80 - Iran
--- 561 - Israel - Heavily upgraded
--- 200 - Jordan
--- 850 - South Korea
--- 104 - Lebanon
--- 235 - Northern Cyprus
--- 345 - Pakistan
--- 450 - Taiwan
--- 150 - Thailand
--- 2875 - Turkey
--- 20 - Vietnam

Notes - Non buildable starting unit.

- Merkava Mark I & II(Israel)
-- Operators
--- 830 - Israel

Notes - Non-buildable starting unit

- Merkava Mark III & IV (Israel)
-- Operators
--- 970 - Israel

Notes - Mark 4 buildable

- P'okpoong-Ho (North Korea)
-- Operators
--- 250 - North Korea

Notes - In production, details hazy due to North Korean secracey

- PT-91 (Poland)
-- Operators
--- 233 - Poland
--- 48 - Malaysia

Notes - none


- T-55\T-54 (USSR)
-- Operators-
--- Abkhazia - 55
--- Afgahinistan - 600
--- Albania - 375
--- Algeria - 275
--- Angola - 100
--- Azerbaiijan - 123
--- Bangladesh - 60
--- Belarus - 29
--- Bosnia and Herzegovina - 150
--- Bulgaria - 160
--- Cambodia - 100
--- Central African Republic - 4
--- Chad - 60
--- Croatia -222
--- Cuba - 1100
--- Democratic Republic of Congo - 20
--- Ecuador - 30
--- Egypt - 650 - 260 Ramses II MBT's (massively upgraded version)
--- Equatorial Guinea - 3
--- Eritrea - 10
--- Ethiopa - 250
--- Georgia - 23
--- Guinea - 8
--- Hungary - 597
--- India - 200
--- Iran - 540
--- Israel - 126
--- Laos - 30
--- Latvia - 3
--- Lebanon - 205
--- Libya - 460
--- Mauritania - 35
--- Mongolia - 350
--- Montenegro - 62
--- Nicaragua - 31
--- Nigeria - 50
--- North Korea - 1600
--- Peru - 375
--- Romania - 647
--- Russia - 1010
--- Rwanda - 12
--- Somaliland - 85 - Breakaway from Somalia
--- Sudan - 200
--- Syria - 2150
--- Togo - 2
--- Uganda - 20
--- Ukraine - 112
--- Uruguay - 15
--- Uzbekistan - 80
--- Vietnam - 900
--- Yemen - 700
--- Zambia - 10
--- Zimbabwae - 20



- T-62 (USSR)
-- Operators
--- 170 - Afghanistan
--- 300 - Algeria
--- 50 - Angola
--- 300 - Cuba
--- 600 - Egypt
--- 100 - Ethiopia
--- 75 - Iran
--- 70 - Israel
--- 75 - Kazakhstan
--- 170 - Libya
--- 250 - Mongolia
--- 800 - North Korea
--- 2020 - Russia-
--- 1000 - Syria
--- 170 - Uzbekistan
--- 80 - Vietnam
--- 30 - Yemem

Notes - Non-buildable starting unit

- T-64 (USSR)
-- Operators
--- 2215 - Ukraine
--- 4000 - Russia
--- 100 - Uzbekistan

Notes - Non buildable starting unit

- T-72 (USSR\Russia)
-- Operators
--- unknown number captured from USSR - Afgahnista
--- 500 -Algeria
--- 22 - Angola
--- 160 - Armenia
--- 180 - Azerbaijan
--- 1465 - Belarus
--- 160 - Bulgaria - 300 Reserve
--- 50 - Cuba
--- 179 - Czech Republic
--- 50 - Ethiopia
--- 225 - Georgia
--- 195 - Hungary
--- 2010 - India
--- 480 - Iran
--- 77 - Iraq
--- 650 - Kazakhstan
--- 77 - Kenya
--- 210 - Krgystan
--- 150 - Libya
--- 31 - Macedonia
--- 200 - Morocco
--- 139 - Burma
--- 1 - North Korea
--- 589 - Poland
--- 35 - Romania
--- 9944 - Russia - of which 7800 reserves
--- 65 - Serbia
--- 272 - Slovakia
--- 1600 - Syria
--- 44 - Tajikistan
--- 702 - Turkmenistan
--- 1302 - Ukraine
--- 70 - Uzbekistan
--- 150 - Vietnam
--- 39 - Yemen

Notes - Still in production, various diffrent models in service

- T-80 (USSR\Russia\Ukraine)
-- Operators
--- 90 - Belarus
--- 41 - Cyprus
--- 285 - Pakistan
--- 50 - People's Republic of China
--- 5956 - Russia - of which 1456 are in reserve
--- 33 - South Korea
--- 271 - Ukraine

Notes - Still in Production in Ukraine

- T-84 (Ukraine)
-- Operators
--- 10 - Ukraine

Notes - currently in production

- T-90 (Russia)
-- Operators
--- 480 - Russia
--- 410 - India - 1000 more to be manufactured in India

Notes - currently in Production in Russia and India

- TAM or Tanque Argentino Mediano (Argentina\Germany)
-- Operators
--- 200 - Argentina

Notes - Non builable starting unit

- TR-85 (Romania)
-- Operators
--- 315 - Romania

Notes - Non buildable starting unit

- Type 59 (People's Republic of China)
-- Operators
--- 100 - Agahnistan
--- 264 - Bangladesh
--- 200 - Cambodia
--- 20 - Democratic Republic of Congo
--- 220 - Iran
--- 175 - North Korea
--- 1200 - Pakistan
--- 6000 - People's Republic of China
--- 15 - Republic of Congo
--- 80 - Sri Lanka
--- 10 - Sudan
--- 30 - Tanzania
--- 158 - Thailand
--- 350 - Vietnam
--- 20 - Zambia
--- 30 - Zimbabwae

Notes - Non buildable starting unit

- Type 69/79 (People's Republic of China)
-- Operators
--- 150 - Albania
--- 88 - Bangladesh
--- 200 - Iran
--- 60 - Burma
--- 250 - Pakistan
--- 98 - Thailand
--- 20 - Sri Lanka
--- 10 - Zimbabwae

Notes - Non buildable starting unit

- Type 74 (Japan)
-- Operators
--- 700 - Japan

Notes - Non Builable starting unit

- Type 88 (People's Republic of China)
-- Operators
--- 500 - People's Republic of China
--- 500 - Pakistan
--- Sudan - Unknown number, most likely under 50

Notes - Non Buildable starting unit

- Type 90 (Japan)
-- Operators
--- 315 - Japan

Notes - Currently in production (?)

- Type 96 (People's Republic of China)
-- Operators
--- 2500 - People's Republic of China

Notes - Currently in production

- Type 99 (People's Republic of China)
-- Operators
--- 300 - People's Republic of China

Notes - Currently in production

- Vickers MBT (United Kingdom)
-- Operators
--- 73 - Kenya
--- 1800 - India - License built under Vijayanta name

Notes- Non buildable starting unit

- Zulfiqar (Iran)
-- Operators
--- 100 - Iran

Notes - Currently in production

TANKS ARE NOW FINISHED! HUZZAH!

Only took till quarter to 7 no the 30th November :P

sheep21
Nov 30, 2008, 11:51 AM
quick bump to say all tanks are finished, next stop AFV...

whitelaughter
Dec 05, 2008, 03:49 AM
Rather than multiple unique units, how about all 'modern' units (Jet Fighter, Stealth Bomber, Stealth destroyer, Gunship, Missile Cruiser, Modern Armor; maybe Mobile Artillery and Mobile SAM) get +1 Strength for every level of Future Tech you've currently got?

sheep21
Dec 05, 2008, 07:17 AM
not all modern weapons are the same in quality or strength or quality, likewise the training in some armies is far superior (sp) to others. I.E I would garuntee a challenger II MBT would wipe the floor with any Russian Federation T-90 or T-72

And tbh, whats the point in making a world 2008-9 mod thats mean to be accurate if you make every army on earth the same... one of the main attractions of the mod at this end.

whitelaughter
Dec 05, 2008, 07:39 AM
not all modern weapons are the same in quality or strength or quality, likewise the training in some armies is far superior (sp) to others.
Precisely. Currently, if the same unit is built by two different nations, the units are identical. With my proposal, the unit from the more technologically advanced nation would be deadlier.

sheep21
Dec 05, 2008, 08:40 AM
I dont see why nations cant have Unique Units...

whats the point in an accurate mod if the units are completely shot to hell. Another mod of having the UK with the default modern armour (which looks like an M1 instead of a challenger) is not what im putting the time in for.

I was thinking that say, a Polish T-72 would be more highly upgraded than say a Pakistani one.

DVS
Dec 05, 2008, 11:49 AM
Of course we are going to have unique units sheep! If I can call you sheep. :D

sheep21
Dec 05, 2008, 07:26 PM
YAY! :D

otherwise I might have cried, you dont know how teedious and annoying it is collecting and puting into order all this data! :P

And sure DVS420, Sheeps fine for me :)

sheep21
Dec 07, 2008, 03:15 PM
Armoured Personnel Carriers & Infantry Fighting Vehicles

- ACV-300 (Turkey)
-- Operators
--- 665 - Turkey (1,698 in total, only 665 inservice)
--- 136 - United Arab Emirates
--- 211 - Malaysia

Notes - Currently in Production

- AIFV (United States of America)
-- Operators
--- 25 - Bahrain
--- 514 - Belgium - Being phased out so probably less
--- 318 - Chile
--- 1207 - Egypt
--- 16 - Lebanon
--- 211 - Malaysia
--- 2000 - Netherlands
--- 85 - Philippine
--- 200 - South Korea under K-200 KAFV name
--- 1698 - Turkey
--- 133 - United Arab Emirates

Notes - Non buildable starting unit

- AMX-10P (France)
-- Operators
--- 1050 - France
--- 25 - Bosnia and Herzegovina
--- 30 - Morocco
--- 40 - Qatar
--- 570 - Saudi Arabia
--- 22 - Singapore

Notes - Non buildable starting unit

- AMX-VCI (France)
-- Operators
--- 382 - Indonesia

Notes - Non buildable starting unit

- ATF Dingo (Germany)
-- Operators
--- 35 - Austria
--- 220 - Belgium
--- 563 - Germany
--- 34 - Czech Republic
--- 48 Luxembourg

Notes - currently in production

- AVGP (Switzerland)
-- Operators
--- 496 - Canada

Notes - Non buildable starting unit

- Al Talha (Pakistan)
-- Operators
--- 2000 - Pakistan - that is 2000 by 2010,
--- 44 - Iraq

Notes - Currently in production

- BTR-3(Ukraine)
-- Operators
--- 6 - Azerbaijan
--- 3 - Ecuador
--- 336 - Iraq
--- 2 - Kazakhstan
--- 1000 - Burma
--- 96 - Thailand
--- 90 - United Arab Emirates
--- unknown numbers(few) - Ukraine

Notes - Currently in production

- BTR-4 (Ukraine)
-- Operators
--- unknown number(few) - Ukraine

Notes - Currently in production

- BTR-94 (Ukraine)
-- Operators
--- 50 - Iraq
--- unknown numbers, possibly similiar to Iraq - Jordan
--- unknown numbers - Ukraine

Notes - Non buildable starting unit

- Boxer (Germany\Netherlands)
-- Operators
--- 0 - Germany (600 ordered)
--- 0 - Netherlands (400 ordered)

Notes - Currently in production

- Bravia Chaimite (Portugal)
-- Operators
--- 96 - Portugal
--- 16 - Libya
--- 32 - Peru
--- 20 - Philippines

Notes - Non buildable starting unit

- Buffalo (South Africa)
-- Operators
--- 200 - United States of America
--- 5 - Canada - 14 more due for 2009
--- 5 - France
--- 0 - United Kingdom - 14 ordered for 2009

Notes - Currently in production

- Cobra BMT-2 APC (Iran)
-- Operators
--- unknown numbers - Iran

Notes - buildable starting unit.

- FV 101 Scorpion Light Tank (United Kingdom)
-- Operators
--- 36 - Botswana
--- 16 - Brunei
--- 29 - Chile
--- unknown numbers (small) - Honduras
--- 100 - Indonesia
--- 80 - Iran
--- 14 - Ireland
--- unkown numbers (not insignificant) - Jordan
--- 26 - Malaysia
--- 140 - Nigeria
--- 37 - Oman
--- 42 - Philippines
--- 154 - Thailand
--- 78 - Venezuela

Notes - Non buildable starting unit

- FV103 Spartan (United Kingdom)
-- Operators
--- unknown numbers (few) - Iraq
--- unknown numbers (few) - Oman
--- 6 - Botswana
--- unknown, guestimate 300+ - United Kindgom

-Non buildable starting unit

- FV107 Scimitar Light Tank (United Kingdom)
-- Operators
--- 325 - United Kingdom

Notes - Non buildable starting unit

- Condor (West Germany)
-- Operators
--- 8 - Kuwait
--- 457 - Malaysia
--- 12 - Portugal
--- 19 - Thailand
--- 64 - Uruguay

Notes - Non buildable starting unit

- Dardo IFV (Italy)
-- Operators
--- 200 - Italy

Notes - Non buildabale starting unit

- Dzik - Poland
-- Operators
--- Uknown numbers - Poland

Notes - Currently in production

- EE-11 Urutu (Brazil)
-- Operators
--- unknown numbers - Bolivia
--- 215 - Brazil
--- 100 - Columbia
--- 30 - Ecuador
--- unknown numbers - Gabon
--- unknown numbers - Guyana
--- unknown numbers - Iraq
--- unknown numbers - Iran
--- unknown numbers - Libya
--- 10 - Paraguay
--- 20 - Saudi Arabia
--- unknown numbers - Sriname
--- 18 - Tunisia
--- unknown numbers - United Arab Emirates
--- 38 - Venezuela
--- 7 - Zimbabwae

Notes - Non buildable starting unit

- FUG (Peoples Republic of Hungary)
-- Operators
--- unknown numbers - Hungary - reserves

Notes - Non buildable starting unit

- International MaxxPro (United States of America\Israel)
-- Operators
--- 4471 - United States of America - 743 more ordered in 2008

Notes - In production

- KMW Grizzly (Germany)
-- Operators
--- unknown number (over 100) - Germany

Notes - In production

- LAV III (Canada)
-- Operators
--- 50 - Botswana
--- 651 - Canada
--- 105 - New Zealand
--- 31 - Romania

Notes - In production.

- LOV-1 (Croatia)
-- Operators
--- 45 - Croatia

Notes - non buildable starting unit

- M1117 Armored Security Vehicle (United States of America)
-- Operators
--- 7 - Bulgaria
--- 1118 - United States of America - 718 more on order in 2008
--- 106 - Iraq

Notes - Currently in production


more to come...

by the way, I dont expect every unit here to make the cut, nt by a long shot so dont get worried chaps :mischief:

DVS
Dec 07, 2008, 04:36 PM
Great work sheep21, thanks.



by the way, I dont expect every unit here to make the cut, nt by a long shot so dont get worried chaps :mischief:

good good, we want to make it as realistic as possible but we also want to finish this in 2009. :D

There will always be time for future updates that include more and more units.

Someone is going to have to figure out which to include and which not to include.

sheep21
Dec 07, 2008, 05:52 PM
I plan to, once I have finished listing all the bloody units (takes some time) to do a hit list of those that are the most worthy.

Alot of the MBT ones are already available/

DVS
Dec 07, 2008, 06:18 PM
That's awesome. Thanks for doing so much work dude. This will really make the mod realistic.

sheep21
Dec 08, 2008, 06:32 AM
was talking with nik naks a week or so ago about units.

I was thinking a ration of 1 civ tank or vehicle to 10 realife ones. Even like this it will still accuratly reflect the sheer numbers of MBT's some countries have. Russia has over 16,000 real life! :o

But how about for Infantry though, one civ unit per 1000 realife men?


EDIT: Just tallied up total Russian MBT Numbers, 23,410 total. So 2,341 MBT ingame vs the UK's 35 Challenger II's lol

If we are to represent the world accuarately how are we going to make collective security work, in RL Russia knows if it attacks a Nato Country the rest of NATO will declare war and a Nuclear Strike may occur, thats what stops tens of thousands of russian troops arching across Europe. How will we represent this ingame?

BTW, methinks Russia will be a favourite for the Human players :p

whitelaughter
Dec 09, 2008, 08:14 PM
Thoughts on new units:

Currently, there are unit promotions to give bonuses vs every unit type except helicopters.
And with the Machine Gun, there is precedent for a unit changing category and then returning to its' original category.

So, how about being able to research a promotion for each land unit that allows you to promote it to a 'helicopter' unit?
Then, since helicopter is the default opponent, the *next* promotion is back to the original category and grants, say, +50% vs Helicopter units.
This would ensure an ongoing arms race.

Sigo
Dec 21, 2008, 08:50 AM
All, hello!
I would like to present detailed information on Russian military, because I saw several inaccurate fact above.

So Russian air force:

Fighter Aircraft:
Sukhoi Su-27 4th generation USSR Air Superiority Fighter 296
Sukhoi Su-30 4+ USSR Air Superiority Fighter 10
Sukhoi Su-35 4.++ Russia Air Superiority Fighter 15 built, 5 are in active service.
Mikoyan MiG-29 4 USSR Multirole Aircraft 380 +150 reserve
Mikoyan MiG-31 4 USSR Interceptor 256 active, ~100 reserve
Mig-35 Russia Multirole Aircraft no production to be started
5-generation fighter (T-50) Russia Airsuperiority Fighter in development

Bomber Aircraft

Sukhoi Su-24 4 USSR Tactical Bomber 450 400 Frontal Air Force;[26]
Sukhoi Su-25 4 USSR Attacker 241 231 Frontal Air Force; planned modernization to reach Su-25SM level.
Sukhoi Su-34 4++ Russia Fighter-bomber 10, 58 to be delivered by 2012[29]
Tupolev Tu-22M USSR Strategic bomber 161+ 91 reserve
Tupolev Tu-95 USSR Strategic bomber 64 planned modernization
Tupolev Tu-160 USSR Strategic bomber 16 planned modernization

Attack Helicopter

Kamov Ka-50 USSR Attack Helicopter 32
Kamov Ka-52 RUS Attack Helicopter 9 Special Forces - 12 more to be commissioned by 2015
Mil Mi-24 USSR Attack helicopter 260 ]
Mil Mi-28 RUS Attack Helicopter 50 300 to be delivered by 2015

The army

Main Battle Tank
Russia
T-95 in development
T-90 450 + 300 more are modernized T-72s + more on order.
USSR
T-80UM 4500
T-72BM 9700
T-64BV 4300
T-62M1 1900
T-55 1010

Armoured Personnel Carrier
Russia
BTR-90 80
Ussr
BTR-80 4000
BTR-70M 2000
BTR-60 2000
MT-LB 4800
BTR-D 514 Airborne

Infantry Fighting Vehicle
Russia
Combat vehicle of tank support (CVTS) - production to be launched
USSR
BMP-3 1400
BMP-2E 305
BMP-1P 1543
BMD-3 103 Airborne
BMD-2 361 Airborne
BMD-1P 71 Airborne

Air Defence Vehicle
Russia
Buk-M1-2 250
S-400 in production
USSR
S-300PMU-2 440
S-300V 9M82 200Maximum
Tor-M1 120
Strela-10M3350
Osa-AKM 550
Kub 350
Krug-M 220
Tunguska-M1 256
Shilka 450

Towed Artillery and Mortars
total some 30,045+ artillery pieces
USSR
Self-Propelled Artillery
2S1 Gvozdika 1037
2S3 Akatzia 1402|
2S4 Tulip 430
2S5 569 152mm
2S7M 800
MSTA-S 800
Nona-SVK 50

Multiple Rocket Launcher System Vehicle
USSR
Grad 1750
Uragan 500
Smerch 300
TOS-1 50 uses thermobaric warheads

Tactical Ballistic Missile Systems
USSR
Tochka-U
Russia
Iskander-E

the Navy

Aircraft Carriers
Admiral Kuznetsov 1 USSR
6 new carriers planned
Battlecruisers
2 Kirov class USSR
Cruisers
3 Slava class cruiser USSR, 2 kara class cruiser USSR
Destroyers
8 Udaloy class destroyer USSR
12 Sovremenny class Russia
1 Kashin class destroyer USSR
Frigates
3 Krivak class USSR
2 Krivak class USSR
1 Neustrashimy Russia
1 Tartarstan/Gepard Russia - 2 in construction
1 Novik class patrol ship USSR
Gorshkov class 20 planned
Corvettes
1 Steregushchy class 2 in construction Russia
8 Parchim class USSR
28 Grisha class USSR
12 Nanuchka class USSR

Patrol ships
Missile Corvettes (FSG): 41
Patrol Boats (PCF): 21
Patrol hydrofoils (PTF): 5
Missile Hovercraft: 2 Bora class guided missile hovercraft

Amphibious ships
Landing ship dock 1
Landing ship tank 18
Landing ship hovercraft 8

Mine warfare
Minesweepers: 56

Submarines
SSBN: 14
11 Borei Class in building
7 reserve Delta III
SSGN: 8
1 building
2 reserve Oscar II class
SSN: 17
1 building
SSK: 20
2 building
Auxiliary Submarines: 7

Strategic rocket forces :nuke:
Total:536 ICBMs
SS-25 Sickle Topol 306 USSR
SS-27 Satan Topol-M 54 Russia

Uff that's it:crazyeye:. Hope it'll be useful.

Can provide more info on post-soviet states militaries if you like as well as any other info on armaments.:rolleyes:

sandman730
Jan 08, 2009, 07:01 PM
What artillery units do we have? What internal security units do we have? What terrorist units do we have? What else do we need?

DVS
Jan 08, 2009, 07:13 PM
What artillery units do we have? What internal security units do we have? What terrorist units do we have? What else do we need?



This thread is being used for raw data right now. If you're asking which units we have art for and which ones we still need, visit the unit art thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=305312). I'm trying to keep a list of what we need there.

Artillery is not finished yet, we may not include unique artillery units in version 1.0. We have a list of terrorist units that we want, but no art for them yet.

sheep21
Jan 08, 2009, 07:13 PM
we are currently lacking these completely:

Artillery
Self Propelled Artillery
MRLS Artillery

AFAIK we have terrorist units, check with DVS

We are also about 35% done for Armoured Fighting Vehicles and Infantry Fighting Vehicles. Infantry are something that have yet to be tackled...

DVS
Jan 08, 2009, 07:20 PM
damburger came up with a list of terrorist units in the features thread. I will update the unit art thread tonight to include them. Thanks guys.

Hopefully someone else will volunteer to put together the artillery list. Sheep21 has too much on his plate as it is... just look at all the work he has done already.

sandman730
Jan 08, 2009, 07:29 PM
Do we have any anti-terrorist units?

sheep21
Jan 08, 2009, 07:37 PM
well I guess it depends on the countries. some will have internal security troops (Russia\Egypt) others through troops on operations (afgahn conflict), many western\1st world through INTERPOL, Secret Service and intelligence units and some a mixture of the above (i.e israel)

sandman730
Jan 08, 2009, 07:38 PM
I say that we should have some universal anti-terrorist units.

sheep21
Jan 08, 2009, 07:43 PM
if you can find some we would be happy to look at them :)

they have to be based on real life units mind.

DVS
Jan 08, 2009, 07:48 PM
Terrorism functions within the espionage system, so having counter-espionage will be how you infiltrator terrorists (same as spies).

Having a universal internal security forces unit that increases espionage points is a good idea. I have seen a police unit do this in other mods. The Egyptian ISF UU would be an upgrade to this unit. FBI agents for the US perhaps, although that seems to be moving towards our crime/health/education feature, which is being held off until 2.0 due to its complexity. So maybe just have a counter-terrorism agent that civs can keep in their cities, as you can currently do with spies to reduce the likelihood of successful attacks.

Having the Total Identification tech and using related totalitarian civics/buildings should increase the odds of thwarting terrorists as well.

Joecoolyo
Jan 08, 2009, 07:48 PM
I say that we should have some universal anti-terrorist units.

I think it might be better to have a universal anti-terrorist unit than unique ones, just so that in case, lets say, Mongolia has a terrorist threat within its country, that it has a counter to the terrorists destroying his country. And doesn't have to rely on regular units or the foreign countries to stop the terrorists.

Edit: DVS, you beat me to it lol

sandman730
Jan 08, 2009, 07:51 PM
It seems like each country has their own counter-terrorist units. Here is a list that I found:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Law enforcement counter-terrorist organizations by country
+ indicates military organization allowed to operate domestically.
Examples include:
Australia: State and Australian Federal Police Police Tactical Groups Australian Protective Service (APS), Tactical Assault Group (TAG East & TAG West)+, Australian Security and Intelligence Agency (ASIO), SASR+
Austria: EKO Cobra
Brazil: State/local Police SWAT teams: BOPE, CORE, GOE, GATE, COT
Bosnia and Herzegovina: SIPA
Bulgaria:S.O.B.T.
Canada: ERT
Czech: URNA National Police Rapid Response Unit or Útvar Rychlého Nasazení
Finland Karhu-ryhmä, Utti Jaeger Regiment, Guard Jaeger Regiment
France: Police units GIPN, RAID and Gendarmerie GIGN+
Germany: Police SEK / MEK and Bundespolizei GSG 9
Hong Kong: Police Special Duties Unit
Iceland: Víkingasveitin
India: NSG, MARCOS, Para Commandos
Indonesia: Detachment 88
Ireland: Emergency Response Unit (Garda)
Israel: YAMAM
Italy: NOCS
Japan: Special Assault Team, Special Security Team
Korea, South: 707th Special Mission Unit+
Latvia: OMEGA police unit
Lithuania: ARAS (Force) Lithuanian Police force of antiterrorism operations
Malaysia: Pasukan Gerakan Khas, Police Combat Diving Unit
Netherlands: DSI (Dutch: Dienst Speciale Interventies, Special Interventions Service)
Norway: Beredskapstroppen, FSK+
Poland: GROM
Portugal: GOE and COE
Philippines: Special Action Force and police SWAT teams
Romania: Brigada Antiteroristă, (counter-terrorist brigade)
Russia: Spetsgruppa A,Vympel
Sri Lanka: Special Task Force
Spain: GEO and UEI
Taiwan: Thunder Squad
Turkey: Özel tim-Özel Harekat Timi (Special Team)
UK: Counter Terrorism Command
US: FBI HRT and state/local Police SWAT teams

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe we could have unique counter-terrorist units or have counter-terrorist units have different names based on their civ.

DVS
Jan 08, 2009, 08:00 PM
Great info Sandman730.

Whether we can get all those included into version 1.0 is questionable, but it's great to have for future reference. Maybe all this should tie in to our crime feature.

sandman730
Jan 08, 2009, 08:02 PM
Great info Sandman730.

Whether we can get all those included into version 1.0 is questionable, but it's great to have for future reference. Maybe all this should tie in to our crime feature.

Maybe we could add it after 1.0

Joecoolyo
Jan 08, 2009, 08:08 PM
Going a little off topic but maybe we tie terrorism and our crime feature together somehow, since terrorism is basically an international crime. Of course, we can add it only if we have time. But defiantly something to look at after 1.0

DVS
Jan 08, 2009, 08:28 PM
@Sandman730- yes, for sure.


@Joecoolyo: I agree!

Maybe all this should tie in to our crime feature.

lol

Not your day my friend!

DVS
Jan 08, 2009, 08:29 PM
But don't feel bad, your post expanded on the idea and that is what we need!

Joecoolyo
Jan 08, 2009, 08:47 PM
Thanks DVS, I'm not the fastest typer in the world, and I've never really done this Forum IMing thing we've been doing for the past hour, where everyone is one is on, and all responding very quickly n'stuff. Mybe I shld strt typng lke ths lol

DVS
Jan 08, 2009, 08:49 PM
lol. I can understand that dude.

I sent you a PM by the way.

sheep21
Jan 08, 2009, 09:20 PM
very nice list, I garuntee at least some of those will come in handy over the next few months.

mechaerik
Jan 14, 2009, 06:23 PM
Im not sure if this has been said, but what about the Su47? Its a russian design that is the only gen5 fighter designed outside the us. It is not currently in service, but if russia could find funding, it would be the only non-us generation5 fighter in the world. Russia would also sell the planes, making them like MiGs.

DVS
Jan 14, 2009, 06:32 PM
Im not sure if this has been said, but what about the Su47? Its a russian design that is the only gen5 fighter designed outside the us. It is not currently in service, but if russia could find funding, it would be the only non-us generation5 fighter in the world. Russia would also sell the planes, making them like MiGs.


sheep21 and I were talking about that unit last week. I suspect it will be a unit and license that Russia is able to unlock with a new national wonder. There is already great art for it.

sandman730
Jan 14, 2009, 06:32 PM
Im not sure if this has been said, but what about the Su47? Its a russian design that is the only gen5 fighter designed outside the us. It is not currently in service, but if russia could find funding, it would be the only non-us generation5 fighter in the world. Russia would also sell the planes, making them like MiGs.

We might be able to use it as Russia's UU. If not, then we could make it a unit for all civs

DVS
Jan 14, 2009, 06:37 PM
We might be able to use it as Russia's UU. If not, then we could make it a unit for all civs


It will be one of the many units that Russia can make, and sell licenses for that allow others to make. :D

Read the weapons licenses (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=7584612&postcount=2) thread for more details on how this works.

sheep21
Jan 15, 2009, 02:11 AM
No, we wont, there is ONE experimental fighter in existence, and it has been that way for 9 years. The SU-47 would be in if Russia pulled its finger out of its arse and finished up the R&D phase, hell, they canceled the second prototype.

This is nowhere near production (and judging by the canceling of the 2nd prototype) is not going to be any time soon. As it is we wont be having it in the game for the reasons its not in service in the world.



EDIT:
I left it out for a reason before ;)

DVS
Jan 15, 2009, 02:21 AM
ok, I forgot how our conversation ended

But why not have it as a unit Russia could unlock 15-20 years down the road? It does technically exist, this isn't futuristic.

sheep21
Jan 15, 2009, 02:27 AM
I suppose, it would reflect the R&D needed to get this prototype into a front line aircraft... to give you some ide, the Eurofighter first flew in 1994 and it took till 2003 for it to enter limited service, and that was with 4 wealthy countries funding R&D.

DVS
Jan 15, 2009, 02:58 AM
Ok, so if we do include it, let's make it dependent on a tech that will take Russia 15-20 to build at best, much longer if they neglect research.

Mattygerst
Feb 09, 2009, 04:54 PM
I was looking at the unique units/buildings listed on the Spreadsheet posted, and I saw that no Russian unique unit/buildings are listed.

Using history as a guide...I suggest creating a building that decreases war weariness in the city it is built. Something like -75% war :mad:

Unit:
Infantry units should get a 2 city defense bonuses to start, along with +10% strength.

This would represent the fact that Russia has never been successfully taken over - even though they have lost major portions of land/population, the Russian soldiers fight back and continue to fight. They took down Napoleon, and outlasted Hitler's Wehrmact and continued fighting - even when all looked lost. This would represent the city garrison promotions, and the decreased war weariness building.

Possible Russian Infantry Unit graphics: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=8755

Building: I'm not sure...but why not just use the Kremlin/a variation of the Kremlin as the unique building that can be built in all cities. It is a part of Russian culture, dating all the way back to the Czars/Byzantium empire...so maybe just use the Kremlin and allow it to replace the Jail, and use it as their unique building. The Russian peoples seem to be able to take on a brunt of fighting without getting as discouraged as other militaries such as the USA. The citizens seem to take fighting hand in hand with life, and it has been a major part of Slavic history/culture.

Joecoolyo
Feb 09, 2009, 05:02 PM
I was looking at the unique units/buildings listed on the Spreadsheet posted, and I saw that no Russian unique unit/buildings are listed.

Using history as a guide...I suggest creating a building that decreases war weariness in the city it is built. Something like -75% war :mad:

Unit:
Infantry units should get a 2 city defense bonuses to start, along with +10% strength.

This would represent the fact that Russia has never been successfully taken over - even though they have lost major portions of land/population, the Russian soldiers fight back and continue to fight. They took down Napoleon, and outlasted Hitler's Wehrmact and continued fighting - even when all looked lost. This would represent the city garrison promotions, and the decreased war weariness building.

Possible Russian Infantry Unit graphics: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=8755

Building: I'm not sure...but why not just use the Kremlin/a variation of the Kremlin as the unique building that can be built in all cities. It is a part of Russian culture, dating all the way back to the Czars/Byzantium empire...so maybe just use the Kremlin and allow it to replace the Jail, and use it as their unique building. The Russian peoples seem to be able to take on a brunt of fighting without getting as discouraged as other militaries such as the USA. The citizens seem to take fighting hand in hand with life, and it has been a major part of Slavic history/culture.


Hmm... I think we were just using the one tht it already had in the game (a laboratory of some sort) and Russia's going to be a dealer nation, with lots of UU's so don't worry about that.

Mattygerst
Feb 09, 2009, 05:06 PM
Okay, no big deal...I must have missed it. I just checked the spreadsheet and didn't see anything...my fault.

Joecoolyo
Feb 09, 2009, 05:09 PM
Its okay dude, we're only human :D

DVS
Feb 09, 2009, 05:12 PM
@Mattygerst:

Good idea having Russia's unique building decrease war weariness.

How's your modding going? If you have programming related questions, you can send a PM to RocknRolla. He is just learning civ4 but is an experienced programmer. I told him you may hit him up once and a while for advice as you advance with c++ and python. ;-)

sheep21
Feb 09, 2009, 07:08 PM
agree broadly matty, what did for napolean was winter, most of his men froze and starved.

I would class the average russian soldier as pretty poor. Bad morale, poor training, sub par weapons and protection. Man for man russias conscript based army sucks in training, quality andequipment.

Joecoolyo
Feb 09, 2009, 08:43 PM
Actually thinking about it, Russia has only stopped invasions because of 1) General Winter, and 2) Numbers! The only way Russia was able to stop the Nazi's in WWII was because Stalin just sent waves and waves of men at the Nazi's until they pretty much took out the entire invasion force.

sandman730
Feb 09, 2009, 08:53 PM
I was looking at the unique units/buildings listed on the Spreadsheet posted, and I saw that no Russian unique unit/buildings are listed.

Using history as a guide...I suggest creating a building that decreases war weariness in the city it is built. Something like -75% war :mad:

Unit:
Infantry units should get a 2 city defense bonuses to start, along with +10% strength.

This would represent the fact that Russia has never been successfully taken over - even though they have lost major portions of land/population, the Russian soldiers fight back and continue to fight. They took down Napoleon, and outlasted Hitler's Wehrmact and continued fighting - even when all looked lost. This would represent the city garrison promotions, and the decreased war weariness building.

Possible Russian Infantry Unit graphics: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=8755

Building: I'm not sure...but why not just use the Kremlin/a variation of the Kremlin as the unique building that can be built in all cities. It is a part of Russian culture, dating all the way back to the Czars/Byzantium empire...so maybe just use the Kremlin and allow it to replace the Jail, and use it as their unique building. The Russian peoples seem to be able to take on a brunt of fighting without getting as discouraged as other militaries such as the USA. The citizens seem to take fighting hand in hand with life, and it has been a major part of Slavic history/culture.

Russia was taken over by the Mongols (Genghis Khan).

Genghis_Kai
Feb 09, 2009, 09:18 PM
And that's why Mongolia is included as a civ - I don't call Genghis Kai for no reason :lol:

Mattygerst
Feb 09, 2009, 10:10 PM
Russia was not a united country at the time of the Mongol expansion...just Slavic tribes who mostly warred with each other.

Modern Russia has not been taken down & took 2 of the most supreme fighting forces in the world down, also.

sheep21
Feb 09, 2009, 10:17 PM
that was 65 years ago the last time and it was Imperial Russia and the USSR that did that, alots changed since then.

alots changed. th russian armed forces are run down, outdated, abusive, have poor morale and poor training, there weaponry is nearly all at least 25 years out of date and there doctrine is of the sae vintage.

I would rate russias military well below anything in the EU, except in vast quanties of semi obsolesent equipment.

Mattygerst
Feb 09, 2009, 10:51 PM
Not much was different at the out-set of the German invasion of WWII. Russia had no weapony during that time (airforce was captured/destroyed). They had the more advanced tank - but not to start AND so many were actually caught by the Germans, that it was basically a non-factor. It was the people (granted they lost 10+ MILLION people in WW2 in combat, but - who else would keep fighting like that?) I know the French didn't. The Italians didn't, etc. And I know the Americans would not have as we've seen post-WW2. I am only speaking to their heritage of being able to withstand that hit and keep fighting on as a people.

All I am trying to say...is that, historically speaking - the Slavic peoples are more prone to warring, and also more prone to living WITH war. Being from the USA (and this goes ESPECIALLY for the generations that 'matter' today (ages 18-55), the USA doesn't have the 'stomach' it has been made out to have. We were all happy and uppity about going to war with Iraq/Afghanistan... and once the public found out that war is hard, and long, and people die - the country quickly lost its morale for it (much like Vietnam, etc.).

The only point I was making was that the Slavic peoples - historically - have been more apt to grind it out. Its their nature as people. That is why I suggested a military unit being infantry - the lowest level of military unit - but, just stronger/more defensive - showcasing the "lasting-power" the Slavic people have shown through history.

No way was I comparing their military strength or weapony with the more modern nations.

Genghis_Kai
Feb 09, 2009, 11:48 PM
(granted they lost 10+ MILLION people in WW2 in combat, but - who else would keep fighting like that?)

China of course!

And note that, for Russia, WW2 is only 4 years, for China, it is 8 years!

Mattygerst
Feb 10, 2009, 12:17 AM
It must be the solidarity of those cultures. China and Russia are two of the more prominent nations that are fairly big on maintaining their own, distinct cultural identity. It must be that strong feeling of Nationalism that keeps those peoples going in the face of grave despair.

sheep21
Feb 10, 2009, 04:06 AM
the comparisons you make with France and Italy are disparaging, whereas the USSR and Imperial Russia could retreat thousands of miles into the russian steppe and call on vast reserves of manpower, Italy nor France had this option, Neither did they have bitter arctic winters to help them on the defensive

Russia is a different place today, people are emigrating in droves, an ageing population. massive social problems and declining population numbers, Russia's population isnt even that large when compared to the USA\China\India. What keeps the disparate peoples of the Russian Federation os a fervent nationalism and hollow national pride whilst constantly looking for enemies that dont exist (E.U\NATO & USA).

Russia is a fragile, backward and weakened state, dependent on the price of Natural Gas and Oil for her newfound wealth (also, she spends less on defence than the UK whilst having a military nearly 10 times the size). Says it all really.

Also, nothing special about the Slavs, every country in Europe has been at war with its neigbours at some point in the last 1000 years, sometimes multiple times, look at the military histories of France, Britain, Spain and the Dutch to name four, all countires that have long histories of brutal warfare across the four corners of the globe.

Joecoolyo
Feb 10, 2009, 07:22 AM
Russia was taken over by the Mongols (Genghis Khan).

No, actually that was Ögedei Khan (Genghis' son) who conquered Russia, Genghis was dead by then, sadly :)

Genghis_Kai
Feb 10, 2009, 07:36 AM
No, actually that was Ögedei Khan (Genghis' son) who conquered Russia, Genghis was dead by then, sadly :)

To be more accurate, Ogedei was conquering Russia and retreated when he heard the news Genghis was dead. So technically, Genghis was still alive when his son was conquering Russia, at least the beginning. ;)

MasterOfDomain
Feb 15, 2009, 02:22 PM
Actually thinking about it, Russia has only stopped invasions because of 1) General Winter, and 2) Numbers! The only way Russia was able to stop the Nazi's in WWII was because Stalin just sent waves and waves of men at the Nazi's until they pretty much took out the entire invasion force.

..and the arrogance of Operation Barbarossa and the inability of the Blitzkrieg tactic over long distances. Plus a general disregard for the Slavic population and that of Ukraine. Also splitting the German Army into two. The Soviet Union could well have been taken over if it hadn't been for some key mistakes and forthcomings.

Mattygerst
Feb 15, 2009, 08:53 PM
The point I was making is that the army continued to fight...even after losing over 10 MILLION soldiers.

The same can not be said for most westernized nations. The USA would not have the will...nor would the UK...nor would other European countries. That is my opinion, solely.

The fact that the people continued to fight and didn't abandon the army en masse is fairly surprising, and a testament to the will of the people to continue fighting.

MasterOfDomain
Feb 16, 2009, 08:50 AM
.

The fact that the people continued to fight and didn't abandon the army en masse is fairly surprising, and a testament to the will of the people to continue fighting.
Not especially suprising when you consider the terrible fear tactics Stalin imposed on all generals and soldiers. This includes of course the, no retreat policy where anyone falling behind the line would be shot.
I'm not saying the Russians weren't brave and honourable, but I think under the same conditions both the U.S. and UK would do the same.

Mattygerst
Aug 12, 2009, 10:29 PM
Okay, now I'm on to the Units to be made and put into the mod.

I have but 2 questions that I'd like answered, first before I start actually implementing these into the mod.

#1 - Does anyone know (and please no speculation) for sure if the Civ engine uses new units correctly? As in...we make new "modern armor" units. But the USA (just as an example) has a 40 strength unit, and we decide that the current Chinese version is a 36 strength unit. Does the AI realize and understand that the units have been altered and modified with different power rankings? Or...will it simply use the code for a "modern armor" and use the same as if it was two 40 strength units squaring off? Another example: We build a new Jet Fighter unit for the USA tht has 75% chance of evasion. Will the AI use this jet "more often" to do bombing/attack missions with the increased evasion chance? Or is this too far outside the line of thinking for the AI?

#2 - Sheep, where did you get all that good information from? I'd just like to know so I can read up on it in my own spare time for curiousity's sake.

Brownsfan02
Aug 14, 2009, 12:06 PM
The F-22 is stealth also so it should be a unique unit to the US

ianinsane
Aug 21, 2009, 02:01 AM
We don't have UUs for the main weapons manufacturer states. *sigh*

Brownsfan02
Aug 21, 2009, 10:14 AM
so the big name countries don't have UU's ?

ianinsane
Aug 22, 2009, 01:02 AM
Due to our Arms Trade feature they will actually have many UUs they can distribute licenses for building them to other civs.

Mattygerst
Aug 22, 2009, 01:57 AM
I'm confused as to exactly how we're going to actually make this work in the mod?...

My guess would be something like: A unique unit will require a certain tech for a certain civilization and then they will trade off that tech? I'm just confused, because this seems like a feature that would require SDK work (not even counting my guess as to whats happening...just in general) that no one really knows how to do?

Maybe I'm over thinking it, but exactly how is the Arms Trade feature going to be implemented?

Joecoolyo
Aug 22, 2009, 06:40 PM
I'm confused as to exactly how we're going to actually make this work in the mod?...

My guess would be something like: A unique unit will require a certain tech for a certain civilization and then they will trade off that tech? I'm just confused, because this seems like a feature that would require SDK work (not even counting my guess as to whats happening...just in general) that no one really knows how to do?

Maybe I'm over thinking it, but exactly how is the Arms Trade feature going to be implemented?

I'm guessing it would work kinda like the mercenaries feature in Rhyes and Fall, except, instead of trading actual units, you will be trading the rights to build those units.

Mattygerst
Aug 23, 2009, 12:33 AM
Well...someone is going to have to find someone to build that into our SDK. Otherwise its not getting in...

civ editor11
Aug 23, 2009, 09:15 AM
You could just create a special resource that only that one civ has and make the unique unit require that resource.

TheVancouverMan
Aug 24, 2009, 10:03 AM
Make Mech Infantry able to carry foot soldiers, as that is its primary goal, to transport infatry quickly. Also note its resemblance to the Stryker.

Mattygerst
Aug 26, 2009, 01:20 PM
Make Mech Infantry able to carry foot soldiers, as that is its primary goal, to transport infatry quickly. Also note its resemblance to the Stryker.

Not happening because the AI does not know how to use this feature correctly, anywhere. There is one mod that has it incorporated, but it does not fully work correctly. When it does, it can be incorporated. Also: I'm guessing it would work kinda like the mercenaries feature in Rhyes and Fall, except, instead of trading actual units, you will be trading the rights to build those units. This can also not be implemented into the mod because no one can do it at this time. Until then, we are not using ANY mods except for what is included in RevDCM and using GEM map.
---------------------------------------------------

Next Topic:
As far as unit promotions. Is there a way we want to do this? Some countries, clearly, have better armies and more efficiently trained soldiers than other countries. Do we want to have certain countries with certain types of promotions?

For example (just a suggestion, and by no means scientific at this point):

USA - +10% strength, City Raider (that is what USA does, shock & awe attacks), as well as City Garrison (to defend hostile cities)

UK - ?
Others - ?

Thoughts and ideas more than welcome. Also what about experience points overall for certain civs?

Quklis
Aug 27, 2009, 05:31 AM
Unique Barracks for countries?

Mattygerst
Aug 28, 2009, 11:25 AM
Yes, but the question is:

What countries represented get the extra experience points? What countries get what promotions?...

Adhesive86
Aug 30, 2009, 03:59 PM
The simple solution is to promote existing units as per current capabilities, but to give different rewards to different civs' barracks and call it 'British barracks', 'American barracks', Chinese barracks' etc. To seek to define promotions beforehand stifles gameplay choices for what is a game.

The likes of UK, Israel should have higher barracks points obviously than most- so say 'British barracks +5 exp, against an average of +2. Not all countries need a unique barracks unless the should deviate from this score. Also, some poor civs can actually have unique barracks that could be only say +1 exp.

In terms of particular countries, it is highly subjective and is going to be open to argument again and again. The UK for instance i would imagine should have not particularly high forces numbers, but very high promotions. In terms of quality of equipment the Americans should be the best by a long way - lots of modern armour etc, but perhaps not as highly promoted as the likes of UK, Israel. But moreso than China, Russia. But this is going to be very contentious.

ianinsane
Aug 31, 2009, 07:59 AM
I don't think that there should be Unique Barracks. After all it is not the nationality that makes the good military training but the military expense per unit. There could be different levels of barracks with rising xps. So a civ that is getting more developed can close the gap to more developed civs.

e.g.
Barracks Level 1:
+1 xp

Barracks Level 2:
Barracks Level 1 required
+2 xp
takes +100% hammers to build compared to level 1
replaces Barracks Level 1

Barracks Level 3:
Barracks Level 2 required
+3 xp
takes +200% hammers to build compared to level 1
replaces Barracks Level 2

and so on...

civ editor11
Aug 31, 2009, 03:51 PM
I agree with ianinsane the unique barracks wouldn't work all that well because the civ could never get better at military experience. The leveled barrcks would work because with the continous additon of work you could have buildings to build no matter what civ you are in the only bad thing is that they have to end relitavely quickly. If you let the barracks go on for to long this'll happen:

Level 1 +1 experience
Level 2 + 3 experience
Level 3 +6 experience
Level 4 +10 experience
Level 5 +15 experience
Level 6 +21 experience
and so on

As you can see very quickly this adds up to enormous amounts.
In some of the big production cities you could just pump some of these out while other ones would have to work for it extremely hard
This is my idea:

Level 1: +1 experience

Level 2: +2 experience including level one's
+50% production cost compared to level one

Level 3: +3 experience including level one and two's
+100% production cost compared to level one

Level 4: +4 experience including level one , two, and three's
+150% production cost compared to level one

and so on like that
This makes it a little easier to do because it has less production to do it so the little civs would eventually catch up. This also has a less addition so it doesn't add up so quickly.

Quklis
Sep 01, 2009, 02:20 PM
This makes it a little easier to do because it has less production to do it so the little civs would eventually catch up. This also has a less addition so it doesn't add up so quickly.

Why should the little civs eventually catch up? How realistic it would be that in few years every african state could have the same level of training as US or GB.. :mischief:

civ editor11
Sep 01, 2009, 04:13 PM
Eventually it would be impossible for them to do it quickly unless they had some good factories. So they first have to build up industry and production and then make them, and it would still take pretty long because if we put a regular barracks as level one it would take the 2 times longer to build a level 5 barracks. so if you see them able to catch up in time to make a big mpact early on you are vastly mistaken. I say we start great britain off on a level 7 barracks and the us on a level 4. All the undeveloped countries should have a level 1 barracks to replace the regular one. In major cities in undeveloped nations you might want to make it a level 2.
These are my ideas

Bahmo
Jan 05, 2010, 02:32 PM
Hey there, guys! I think I might be your man for coding the units now, so I could use some help. Evidently there are some people here fluent in military hardware, so could somebody please provide performance and cost specifications for as many of these units as possible? That can help me figure out what to code!

Bahmo
Jan 08, 2010, 06:20 PM
While I wait on pins and needles for specs, the search for graphics begins! I'm going in order.

F-35 Lightning (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239769&highlight=F-35+Lightning)

Edit: Or I could go here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=305312&page=2).

civ_king
Jan 10, 2010, 10:21 PM
not knowing what you mean by specs but:
F-35 Lightning II
Max speed: 1,200mph
Max range: 1,367miles

Those are standard among versions,

Mission-specific ordnance can include a combination of the following (up to six):

AIM-9X Sidewinder short-range, air-to-air missiles
AIM-120B/C AMRAAM medium-range, air-to-air missiles
AIM-132 ASRAAM air-to-air missiles
2,000lb GBU-10 Paveway II guided bombs
2,000lb GBU-24A/B Paveway III guided bombs
2,000lb GBU-31 JDAM bombs
2,000lb MK-84 general purpose bombs
2,000lb MK-84 BSU-50 Ballute general purpose bombs
2,000lb GBU-31 JDAM bombs
1,000lb GNU-16 Paveway II guided bombs
1,000lb MK-83 BLU-110 general purpose bombs
1,000lb GBU-32 JDAM bombs
500lb CBU-38 JDAM bombs
500lb GBU-12 Paveway II laser-guided bombs
500lb MK-82 general purpose bombs
MK-83 BSU-85 general purpose bombs
CBU-99/100 Rockeye II cluster bombs
CBU-103/105 munitions dispenser
AGM-154 A/C JSOW glide bombs
Brimstone/Joint Common Missiles
Phase I SDB (under development)
Stormshadow cruise missiles
AGM-158 JASSM missiles
MXU-648/CNU-88 Baggage Pod
BDU-57/58/60 laser-guided training round
MK-76/MK-58/BDU-48
426-gallon external fuel tanks

so yeah...

BTW ships are VASTLY EASIER to figure out the specifics because they are specific units

use http://www.militaryfactory.com for info

Bahmo
Jan 13, 2010, 04:49 PM
I have a question: Are there some countries we're giving pre-modern tanks, to match the obsolescence of their militaries in reality, and similar to how we have multi-generation fighters? I ask because there is art for some pre-modern tanks in the Unit Art thread, and need to know if I have to add more unit classes.

Edit: Reading the thread's earlier posts gave me an idea, but dang, that's a lot of units! I'll hate you all once I finish this! ;)

Also, Sheep? Are you sure the Challenger 2 is out of production? Because if it is, I didn't know about it, and you need to provide the MBT currently in production by the United Kingdom.

civ_king
Jan 13, 2010, 11:58 PM
I have a question: Are there some countries we're giving pre-modern tanks, to match the obsolescence of their militaries in reality, and similar to how we have multi-generation fighters? I ask because there is art for some pre-modern tanks in the Unit Art thread, and need to know if I have to add more unit classes.

Edit: Reading the thread's earlier posts gave me an idea, but dang, that's a lot of units! I'll hate you all once I finish this! ;)

Also, Sheep? Are you sure the Challenger 2 is out of production? Because if it is, I didn't know about it, and you need to provide the MBT currently in production by the United Kingdom.

Challenger 2 is still in heavy use

Bahmo
Jan 15, 2010, 08:45 AM
Yeah; I Wiki'd that one. Apparently they aren't currently in production, but the UK hasn't had their current supply depleted, so if they did they could build more.

sheep21
Feb 28, 2010, 05:19 PM
The challenger II MBT is still in front line service and will be for the forseeable future, however the last one rolled off the production line years ago and as there were no foreign orders the line was shut down.
They could produce more I guess, but at a significant startup cost on rebuilding the production line\reemploying the staff, sourcing parts etc.

Bahmo
Feb 28, 2010, 10:01 PM
I hardly see it as significant enough to warrant a gameplay limitation. The UK is its own Civ in the mod and a modern military power, and they as such shouldn't be limited. That's what we're doing for third-world countries with obsolete tanks purchased from first-world countries when the latter developed modern AFV technology.

For that matter, I noticed that some nations are still producing tanks globally considered obsolete, like the T-72, so we might need three Tank Unit Classes plus more than one researchable technology pertaining to tanks.

Eerdna
Feb 28, 2010, 11:04 PM
I got an idea... lets split all units in tiers and work it in this way... just need help with names and stuff like that... taking an idea about not buildables unit in tha start (representing the need of modernizate armies) as Tier0... and adding near future units (if will be an awkard game if it only lasts 3 years...)
Example:

Inf

tier1: basic infantry/conscripts/guerrila
tier2:normal inf
tier3: special inf/future warrior (see wiki)

tank

Tier0:Stupidly old tanks...
tier1: (old ones) T72/M60
Tier2: abrams/t90/callenger2/merkava4
Tier3:... ok out of ideas here

Jets

tier0: (not buildaibles) F5/mig21/Mirage 3
tier1: F16-18/mig29/Suk27
Tier2: F18-F16/Eurofighter/Mig31
Tier3: Raptor/F35/Su-PAK FA/Shenyang JX

Helicopters

Tier0:no idea
Tier1:Mil24
Tier2:Apache/Mil28(I love them!!!)
Tier3:no idea

and stuff like that... i will also love to see diferent tipes of missiles and/or rockets (weapons like used by the hamas)

sheep21
Mar 01, 2010, 08:55 AM
NOTE: We already have internationally accepted generational tiers for Jet aircraft. Were currently in 5th generation fighter tech (F22), it will outclass every other fighter in the game period.

Bahmo, for gameplay reasons I can see why letting unit out of production in RL continue to be produced in the game would be a good idea. And yeah, stuff like the t-72 is still rolling out of the factories because they are affordable, simple to maintain and look good parked outside the presidential palace :-p Not everyone can afford a Leopard II :)

Linky to aircraft: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6845065&postcount=2

Eerdna
Mar 01, 2010, 03:29 PM
yea for aircrafts... but not for tanks, infantry or helicopters... also it would be good to add to that naval units

sheep21
Mar 01, 2010, 07:10 PM
fair point.

Bahmo
Mar 02, 2010, 12:18 PM
So I take it what Eerdna means for Tier 3 tanks is a futuristic type. I don't know exactly how many future technologies we have in the mod, so I don't know whether this is a good idea, but I do support the Tier system. When I started coding I was setting all obsolete tanks to be part of the "Tank" unit class, whether they were used in WWII, Vietnam, or any other era, but that's not a good system when you have to deal with some tanks that are technically obsolete but still built by some nations. So yeah, I'll go back over it to code tiers, and I also need whoever handles technology coding to add some things to that document.