I think of the Doviello as fairly tribal. They emulate wolf packs in behaviour and hierarchy. However, they have 'cities' (in the game, anyway). How would these cities be formed? With their warlike nature, I'm having trouble envisioning it.

- Niilo

Roaming "Packs" of Doviello are comprised of the 13-28 year old majority of the population, while the women, elder and children settle into Cities?

I think of the Doviello as fairly tribal. They emulate wolf packs in behaviour and hierarchy. However, they have 'cities' (in the game, anyway). How would these cities be formed? With their warlike nature, I'm having trouble envisioning it.

- Niilo

Think viking raiders. Those coastal encampments they had that were kinda permanent/kinda temporary. Doviello's lower requirements on buildings is supposed to simulate the fact that their towns aren't really that important.

Ive long thought abotu making them citless and having units produce units. It actually wasnt feasible until the addition of the spell delay mechanic on 0.32 (since I can effectivly cost out unit production). Makes you wonder what you could do.

Ive long thought abotu making them citless and having units produce units. It actually wasnt feasible until the addition of the spell delay mechanic on 0.32 (since I can effectivly cost out unit production). Makes you wonder what you could do.

Wow, that's incredibly cool and flavorful. I hope it works out and makes its way into the game in some form, that would be a very interesting civilization to play.

Wasn't there a mechanic for this in the Genghis Khan scenario? I never played it, so I'm not sure how useful it is, but...

How would religion work with the Doviello, then? They need cities to have a religion, right? And it would probably dent their score quite badly to have no cities.

The ghengis Khan scenario didn't let you CHOOSE your production. It was a random chance of certain spawns based on the tile that you had your unit producing unit sitting. With spell delays he could actually let you select when/what to generate, and have it "cost" you the appropriate amount. As well as allow almost any unit to do so.

AND let them create siege only in forests, stronger horsemen on Horse resource, get Iron Weapons if they are standing on Iron tile etc.

They could get techs like the barbarians do, so as other nations become more advanced, they also advance but at a slower rate.

They could steal techs by conquest. (And trade of course)

This seems like a great idea. I take it the Doviello will have some territory they can call their own, rather than being true nomads, or I suspect there would be massive abuse potential, like if they sign open borders with just one civ, and there's no barbarian territory left, and the civ breaks open borders, what happens to the units?

Their "Pack" unit (or whatever to call it) could have cultural dominion of the tile it is currently on or something. Thought that would create other problems with open borders :p

Perhaps they could borrow the settlement idea from the Kurios? No major cities though natch, just settlements for the sole purpose of cultural dominion.

better to use the land capture flags like in dungeon adventure mod. so they claim land but still dont make cities

That would be pretty sweet.

and if that works, how about great floating cities for the Lanun?

Huge constructions made of a series of hulls and strapped toagether rafts that grows with time, as people add new sections, bring businesses, etc...

I just think that mountain of ships from the third pirates of the caribbean.

both ideas (lanun and doviello) sound pretty cool in a way...

anyone going to do a mod mod about it :) ?
if it works out to be brilliant, fun and not adding more trouble,... it will be added to the main mod ;)
so go and create!!!

both ideas (lanun and doviello) sound pretty cool in a way...

anyone going to do a mod mod about it :) ?
if it works out to be brilliant, fun and not adding more trouble,... it will be added to the main mod ;)
so go and create!!!

Has anyone read The Scar by China Mieville? There's a floating city called Armada that is made of countless ships, captured and tethered together. The Lanun idea here reminds me of that.

and if that works, how about great floating cities for the Lanun?

Huge constructions made of a series of hulls and strapped toagether rafts that grows with time, as people add new sections, bring businesses, etc...

Haha, that made me think of Waterworld and the giant ship/city the villains have.

Lanun is a bad idea, I think, because a port is as much of a pirate's life as his ship...perhaps you could restrict them to coastal cities only.

Yes, that would be good, and by extension, if it's possible, have them start in coastal regions only if those are at all present. Seriously, I'm getting tired of landlocked pirates in every second game.

if it's possible, have them start in coastal regions only if those are at all present.
This was already done with this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=273071) map modmod.

How would the Doviello gain access to religion if they have no cities to convert? And what about GP or Golden Ages?

Pretty sure they would miss out on all of this if they had no cities. They would also get no research, and obviously no culture. This would be very tough to balance.

They could still get research if you used the Food from Animals Modcomp in Promotion form. Then you can have all the Doviello be capable of getting :science: from their defeated enemies. They would only learn technologies that enable units or promotions, and would always be behind the opponents, but that seems fitting for them.

Doviello-captured workers could also have a spell to produce beakers or gold, I think. Or they could build an improvement that gave a certain number of beakers and gold for a certain number of turns, too. I'm not sure if it would be possible, but couldn't they also get beakers from razing cities?

There is a MODCOMP already which allows you to gain :science: from captured/razed cities, based on what the owning Civ knows already and you do not.

Improvement would be tricky since without cities you wouldn't have any cultural borders, so can't tie the improvements specifically to belonging to you. And the main issue with having a spell grant research would be deciding WHAT tech you apply the :science: to, since without a city you cannot select a tech to study toward.

Well, maybe to Doviello wouldn't start with a city, or be able to build settlers, but can still capture cities, or even promote there warcamp or whatever into temperary, low power cities which produce culture (maybe at a fixed rate?) and lets them buy techs with the points they gain from killing unit/capturing cities, and alowing them to get improvements, but in exchange, they can't build units (well, maybe low power militia style units) and they have to pay a large fee to maintane it (they get money from pillaging/killing). That way, a Doviello leader can choose either to play as nomads or settled people, both with good and bad aspects.

Ack, wrong thread. Pretend I'm not ever here...

Would it be possible to have _two_ barbarian civs? One would be regular barbs and the other the Doviello.

If not, I think of them as the Vikings -- the women and children stay up North. The men go on raids.

The city, I think, would be mostly meat eaters. It would be a collection of hunters. They would stay together to accopmlish food sharing (like the inuit (http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&q=inuit+food+share&btnG=Search)). Basically, food sharing allows a group of hunters to even out the feast/famine cycle of hunting. A successful hunter shares with everyone and, in turn, receives food from others when they are successful. Although everyone gets food, there's a hierarchy, based on previous productivity.

Where's the thread on Doviello and Tundra? What if their farms are -1 food but they get extra food and hammers from animals? Or the hunters generate hammers and food when sitting on an animal resource? Of course, the Vikings did farm (Iceland, Greenland). But I suspect they farmed later than other civs. Can you mess with the tech tree and make, say, Machinery or Iron Work a prereq for Agriculture for them . . . and still give them early access to Animal Husbandry?

Should they be scorched earth like the orcs? I imagine them as having a sheltered production center that generates raiders (this fits nicely with that speech: "these are our islands. . .")

What if the Doviello get an extra tech (fishing) to start to compensate for later slow growth? And do the same for the Lanun?

I think the smokehouse should be far more important for the Doviello. Take Granary away from them and give them a special smokehouse of some kind.

As a doviello player (who lost his password and even his acc name after about 4 years without posting in CivFanatics, who just registered again because this mod rocks my socks, and has not done any work in the last week because of it), im all in favor of new game mechanics for my feral people. After playing Doviello, playing another nation is a pain; building requirements are annoying and raider is the best. trait. ever. But i like the city management of civ4 as much as waging wars, so i wouldnt like to see them fully nomadic, like in the barbarian scenario for warlords (or gengis' one... dont remember). Maybe make Charadon more mobile and Mahala more, dunno, steampunk? To fit with the warmachine, the strangest hero ever.