I hope Kael knows :P:crazyeye:

He said something to the effect of "it's intentional you don't know anything yet, you'll find out in Ice."

This is code for "I'm making it up as I go along."

We'll probably find out in a scenario. Which is fine by me.

It's a cool concept though, don't you think.

I wonder what the civ names that end with ...im stand for. Is it like ..ia in our world? (Slovakia, Yoguslavia, Russia, Latvia, etc)

Oh, we know. But we're not telling.

He's to do with rebuilding patria i think. IIRC the Bannor, Calabim and Malakim are all of the descendants from patria.

The Amurites are the "heirs of Patria", via Kylorin.

well some posts starting to become quite informative.
so Patria you say ? Are malakim nomads from deserts descendants of partia? soundrs refreshing. Lets hear more of this ..... :]

Well Patria comprised almost every human nation, I believe.

We'll probably find out in a scenario. Which is fine by me.

It's a cool concept though, don't you think.

I wonder what the civ names that end with ...im stand for. Is it like ..ia in our world? (Slovakia, Yoguslavia, Russia, Latvia, etc)

They're all derived from ancient Judeo-Christian groupings of angels and demons. So the "-im" is Hebrew and just refers to a plural.

I wonder what the civ names that end with ...im stand for. Is it like ..ia in our world? (Slovakia, Yoguslavia, Russia, Latvia, etc)

They are mostly different types of biblical angels & demons. The 'im' suffix is simply a plural. Steve Jackson Games' game In Nomine used many of the same names for its characters, but Kael says they were developed independently.

I wonder what the civ names that end with ...im stand for. Is it like ..ia in our world? (Slovakia, Yoguslavia, Russia, Latvia, etc)

-im is one of the Semitic plural suffixes (or at least Hebrew=>Biblical, and the mod is stated to have been "influenced by Judeo-Christian mythology", among other things). It is used, amongst other things, for ethnonyms, i.e. the Jews are really "Yehudim". That is derived from Judea, or "Yehuda", though ethnonyms could be derived from other things as well. Incidentally, if we go by my vague recollections of Hebrew and some random Arabic words, the Malakim are either the People of the Angel(s) or the People of the King(s), while the Calabim are the People of the Dog(s). Though very possibly I'm wrong.

But yes, what's with this Decius fellow? Probably either an archangel or another surviving pupil of Kylorin (I'm presently leaning towards the former).

I doubt he is either. My first guess is that he was just a strong member of the Overcouncil (and/or Undercouncil) who used this position to dominate multiple civilizations who nominally remained sovereign. Either that, or a military commander in a war where these civs worked together (against Auric? or Hyborem?)

Still, Bannor, Malakim and Calabim? That's a weird combination, though I suppose that of all the evil races the Calabim are the most cooperative.

Bannor and Calabim or Bannor and Malakim alliance aren't very odd, but Malakim and Calabim sure is.

When you defeat Decius he says something about having gone from being an outcast to a king (and will do so again). Maybe he lead one civ, was deposed, and then took over a rival?

I think he might be a commander against Hyborem. The Bannor are the most likely to take the fight to Hyborem, the Calabim get hurt the worst despite being evil by Armageddon and would like to retain their rule over their "cattle", and not sure about Malakim but I assume the leader of the over council wouldn't let Hyborem come in and disrupt all of their hard work.

Not that weird really. Why do you think its weird? They are all human. The Calabim just got vampiric lord "protectors". Malakim are just nomads with an elven king and the Bannor were one of the strongest empires in the Age of Magic.

All the human nations have their connections. Calabim, Sheaim, and Kuriotates are new nations, but the people come from the same nations as the people of Bannor, Kuriotates, Sheaim, and probably Malakim as well, etc.

He said something to the effect of "it's intentional you don't know anything yet, you'll find out in Ice."

This is code for "I'm making it up as I go along."

Shh, don't reveal the secrets of all DMs.

Reading through the XML, I find Decius talks a lot about having been king of many nations, of being an exile, of having seen a lot, et cetera. I get the impression he's a skilled and experienced leader with the ability to charm, backstab, and earn his way to the top of any nation he finds. Sort of a professional travelling monarch. Why the Bannor, Malakim, and (most bizzarely) Calabim are his chosen "clients" is beyond me.

I suppose that all three are relatively fluid nations. The Malakim are enlightened and welcoming (EDIT: former) nomads. He could quickly prove his skills there, and earn his way into the trust of Varn Gosam himself. The Bannor value martial skill above all else; even a stranger, if he proved to be noble, honorable, and capable, could become a great and important figure. "But what about the Calabim? Aren't they a rigid caste system?" Aye, but the smartest and the fastest can join the Moroi (or however it's spelled) and, if they survive long enough to recieve the "gift," climb the ladder to the top. If Decius is as expirienced in dirty politics and staying alive as I expect, he'd get bit mighty fast, perhaps by trickery, and then start knocking off his fellow bloodsuckers at a rate that would make even the best vampire slayers gape.

But this leaves a few questions. I'll disregard the Kurioates and Grigori; there are many lore reasons the Decius I'm imagining would lead them, and others that argue he would not, but the gameplay problems are obvious. "What about the Doviello; if this theoretical Decius is such a nomadic tough guy, surely he'd rise to the top of Doviello society just as easily as the Bannor?" This does put a hole in my theory, aye. But look again at the chosen three. Two are definetly feudal nations; the cruel Calabim have clearcut hierarchy of vampires, Moroi, and serfs. The Bannor use a combination of feudal and military hierarchy. I know little of the Malakim lore, however. I'm choosing to assume, perhaps incorrectly, they have a hierarchical and/or feudal government as well. The Doviello tribes are a whole different beast. Can you imagine attempting to arrange them into feudal states with agricultural serfs? It'd be like trying to train wolves to work as sheep dogs. "OK, but I'm sure the Amurites wouldn't mind working for a professional monarch. Agricultural systems would fit him fine." Aye, but Decius hasn't got a drop of that old-time voodoo in him. This has both gameplay and lore implications. What would the Amurites be without being Arcane leaders? This is my answer to both lore and gameplay questions; both Amurite leaders are capable mages as well as politicians. Decius does not seem to have any magical skill whatsoever; I doubt a council of mages would like taking orders from a guy who can't even pull a rabbit out of a hat. "How about them Balseraphs? They're definetely a feudal system!" I can hardly see Decius leading them for long, however, without either fleeing in terror and/or frusteration, or getting killed.

Of course, this is my pet theory. I might be partially right, nearly right, on the money, or (most likely) a million miles away.

EDIT: I'm going to check Decius' preferred civics, see if that gives me any fuel or kills my mad rantings outright.

If I remember correctly, Valledia the Even doesn't have any magical ability either (or at least her magical powers are below average for their people. Her skills are in management, blackmail, etc.)

If I remember correctly, Valledia the Even doesn't have any magical ability either (or at least her magical powers are below average for their people. Her skills are in management, blackmail, etc.)

In the text for her "event" with Falamar, Valledia is specifically referred to as a "sorceress," and it's hinted that their time together may have involved some *ahem* creative uses of magic.
Of course, these may not be entirely canonical. I can easily believe that she's below average and makes up for it with political skill, but she can doubtless sling a spell or two to silence a complaining old mage whose brains have been fried by a few too many mind magic spells. Decius, from what I've seen, lacks that ability, and a sword just isn't as impressive to a bunch of people who consider magic a necessity.

EDIT: I actually remembered there was some discussion a while ago about this somewhere, that is, whether Valledia was actually magically skilled. I don't remember how it went in the end, but I think it was agreed that she was at least competent, although not necessarily excellent. As ever, I could be wrong.

I had Decius, the Good leader of the Calabim, founding the Order in my last game... He's definitely an intriguing character.

Does anyone remember if there is any group of nine (or ten) creatures in Erebus?

Are you trying to figure out which nine the guild of nine is about?

No, I think he meant the prefix "dec," meaning 10

...

It's a good idea...I'd like your thoughts on why he can't be a Lanun leader...

One of the things I always thought telling about the civs with only one leader is that they were the ones so incredibly dominated by that one personality (Cardith, Varn, the three angels, Faeryl, Auric) that to imagine the civ without the leader would be well-nigh impossible. So Decius of the Malakim is interesting to me...

Are you trying to figure out which nine the guild of nine is about?

What the reverend said, but now that you mentioned it, might there be a connection? It certainly fits in with the mercenary theory.

From what I gather, Decius is like a FfH Alcibiades (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcibiades), only with a Roman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decius_%28disambiguation%29) name.

Yeah, that sounds about right.

From what I gather, Decius is like a FfH Alcibiades (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcibiades), only with a Roman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decius_%28disambiguation%29) name.

Alcibiades is such an interesting figure. It will be cool if Decius shares a similar background to him.

It's a good idea...I'd like your thoughts on why he can't be a Lanun leader...

Similar to the Doviello. They're too wild in spirit, too unlikely to give in to a single king, especially some landlubber. Falamar rules by charm, Hannah by fear, and both by being some of the best captains on the sea.

From what I gather, Decius is like a FfH Alcibiades, only with a Roman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decius_%28disambiguation%29) name.

Wow. I think you're on to something. That guy's got a a pretty awesome life story, by the way.

Decius probably served as a Bannor general and drove an aggressive plan, and tried to get the nation to invade other nations, or something. Then he got chased away by his political enemies, forced to flee. Found the nomads of Malakim. Tried to get them to fight the Bannor, being succesful at first, Bannor diplomats made the Malakim see the true side of Decius and he had to flee again. Decius finds the newly established Calabim, quickly befriends Alexis and Flauros. Becomes their top general, and receives the "gift".

I don't think that Bannor/Order society really allow for the existence of Political rivalries, but the Overcouncil certainly does.

To me it seems more likely that he started out Malakim, and studies under a famed Empyrean Philosopher (cf. Alcibiades study under Socrates). He was probably more politically than philosophically skilled though, and used his mental prowess and rhetorical skill honed in discourse with the masters to gain political power instead of emlightenment. I see him as becoming a dominant personality of the Overcouncil during time of war against some evil, and/or perhaps the Commander of the Joint Forces of the Overcouncil's member civs. He loved war and (especially) his position of command more than the principles of Truth and Justice that the Empyrean/Malakim held dear. Some evil civ tried probably to surrender. The Malakim/Empyrean wanted to show mercy, but Bannor/Order didn't trust the terms of this surrender. This split the council, and may have lead to actual combat between its member civs. Decius saw his power depended on war, and so betrayed his desert people to lead the Bannor in their unrelenting crusades. While the Bannor may have been right and their enemy unrepentant, I suspect this was during a dark period of Bannor history. This is probably when the Church of Junil was corrupt, and devoted to hunting down all true believers. Decius was probably important in this persecution. He probably convinced the Calabim to join The (corrupted) Order to aide their conquest of righteous peoples. In this period, the Bannor were beginning to take their orders from the Undercouncil. Eventually, this corruption was revealed and Decius was deposed by Valin Phanuel (or his followers, maybe after the leader was martyred). Decius then fled to his Calabim allies, and was probably eventually given "the gift."

There may be more chapters in this story though, perhaps involving being a double, triple, or quadruple agent for the Overcouncil and Undercouncil. Perhaps no one really knows where his allegiance truly lied. He was probably trying to play both sides.

Fascinating take, Magistre. But then, why would Decius be listed right under the Bannor leaders if he wasn't originally one of them? I'd think, rather than Malakim, he was a Bannor, only less idealistic (like Amelanchier and Thessa are for the Ljosalfar).

Fascinating take, Magistre. But then, why would Decius be listed right under the Bannor leaders if he wasn't originally one of them? I'd think, rather than Malakim, he was a Bannor, only less idealistic (like Amelanchier and Thessa are for the Ljosalfar).

Listed where?

I'd guess the answer to your question though is probably pretty simple: Alphabetical Order.

When you start a custom game, Decius is between Capria and Varn.

And isn't it easier to believe that Decius/Alcibiades was found guilty of being somewhat too unorthodox towards the Order (emphasis on law, just like in Athens) rather than the Empyrean (emphasis on wisdom, just like Socrates' preachings)? Mind, my only exception to your reconstruction is precisely making him first of all a Malakim instead of a Bannor.

My guess is that he is actually Kerrigan, and that in Ice they will fully implement the Zerg. :p

I guess so. That wouldn't be "political rivalries" though. In that case, he would basically be another Rosier the Fallen.

How would he end up a Malakim leader though? I guess I could see an Order crusader man who failed to live up to the letter of the law finding a safe haven among the Empyrean, but I don't really think it is likely that such a man would rise to prominence there. In my version he wasn't banished or found guilty by the Malakim though, he simply chose to side against them.

The main reason I chose Malakim->Bannor->Calabim though is that going from Bannor to Calabim seems a much more likely transition than Malakim to Calabim. If he had started as a Bannor and sought refuge from the wise man of the Calabim then I'd tend to emphasize with him much more (the Order laws were probably unfair to begin with), and find the defection to the Calabim hard to understand. Going straight from light to darkness seems less likely than falling slowly into corruption and fanaticism.

I guess I could try to come up with a scenario where he didn't end up Calabim, in which case he could turn to the Empyrean eventually and be redeemed. Of course, not allowing such redemption would probably fit better in a dark fantasy. I don't really see him as being that Heroic. Also, if he was the leader of the Calabim he almost certainly became a Vampire. The desert sun would probably be too much for him then, and I don't think there is a cure for Vampirism.

What are the odds that right now, Decius is nobody and They're waiting for this conversation to pick the best role for him?

I don't think that's true.

I can wait patiently until Ice to find out. Although, I have wondered what "The Nine" refers to, assuming it's not the Nine Divines of Tamriel, or, ironically, the Catonsville Nine.

The desert sun would probably be too much for him then, and I don't think there is a cure for Vampirism.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6614205&postcount=5

i agree with magister, its alphabetical from good-neutral-evil

I guess so. That wouldn't be "political rivalries" though. In that case, he would basically be another Rosier the Fallen.

How would he end up a Malakim leader though? I guess I could see an Order crusader man who failed to live up to the letter of the law finding a safe haven among the Empyrean, but I don't really think it is likely that such a man would rise to prominence there. In my version he wasn't banished or found guilty by the Malakim though, he simply chose to side against them.

The main reason I chose Malakim->Bannor->Calabim though is that going from Bannor to Calabim seems a much more likely transition than Malakim to Calabim. If he had started as a Bannor and sought refuge from the wise man of the Calabim then I'd tend to emphasize with him much more (the Order laws were probably unfair to begin with), and find the defection to the Calabim hard to understand. Going straight from light to darkness seems less likely than falling slowly into corruption and fanaticism.

I guess I could try to come up with a scenario where he didn't end up Calabim, in which case he could turn to the Empyrean eventually and be redeemed. Of course, not allowing such redemption would probably fit better in a dark fantasy. I don't really see him as being that Heroic. Also, if he was the leader of the Calabim he almost certainly became a Vampire. The desert sun would probably be too much for him then, and I don't think there is a cure for Vampirism.

Who says the Order and Empyrean existed during the time Decius changed sides?

But say they did. Empyrean is a religion that would shelter political and war refugees. Just like a neutral country like Sweden did during the WW2, and still do today.

My reasoning for him starting in Bannor is they are probably the first nation to get a standardized organized Army in the age of rebirth. Being forced into a war against the orcs early, and having combat experience from hell. Not to mention being led by an Organized leader already. To me Decius was probably a commander/general in the Bannor vs Orc war. Once that war settled down, and the Embers was formed, he wanted more enemies. The other generals wanted stability and to build up the Bannor civilization now that they finally had peace.
In some way or another, Decius does something controversial at this point. Like leading a band of loyal soldiers to war against some sovereign empire without any ok from the above leadership at all. Trying to force a war which his leaders do not want.
At some point Decius gets taken care of and has to flee. He finds home in the Nomaic Malakim. This might be pre-Varn. Or maybe early varn. They might still be nomadic, without permanent cities. For some reason, through his political and military prowess perhaps, he climbs through the ranks and gains a high seat of power.
Eventually, he gets driven away from Malakim as well, and then finds a permanent home in Calabim, where they appreciate his deterministic warfare style. I would guess he becomes a good friend of Flauros and maybe a lover of Alexis for a while.

i agree with magister, its alphabetical from good-neutral-evil

Decius is neutral.

No he can pick alignment at start of game.

I wasn't talking about alignment. Alphabetically, Bannor comes before Calabim and Malakim.

He is neutral, but gets an event to pick an alignment at the start of the game.



Hmm...I guess I just picture Decius living 2 or 3 hundred years latter than Grey Fox does.

I'd say the Order has been around since Sabathiel led the Bannor our of Hell, and that the Malakim were just unconsolidated nomadic tribes before Varn united them under the Empyrean.

I'd say that the Bannor worship after Bhall fell and Sabathiel came to the rescue was the prequel to the Order. In the canon lore, I would think that the Order is founded by the Bannor when they got their religion organized and started spreading it outside of Bannor.

Back to Greyfox' point, what if Decius was a leader in the Bannor-Clan war, and the controversial thing he did was to slaughter the orcs after the treaty, which Rantine was banished for arranging?

Good point. That sounds like it could have been Decius, and it COULD have started an all out war with all clans united. If it wasn't for Rantine. Which probably would have meant the end for all orcs.

Just to make it easier on your guessing, I'll tell you that you won't play as Decius for all three civs in the scenarios in one go--only two. There is a choice the character and the player make. (That's the goal anyway. Obviously that requires Kael to implement the trophies or something similar.)

mm his traits are worst with malakim mechanics wise.
I just see not synergies or really usefullens of his traits for malakim, which are in fact = mages and disciples. Chm trait from adaptive > Organized xp wise, and Raider not affecting arcane units , which is major malakim power and buff.
But it really decent for all those bannor melee units and as well Calabim stuff.
mechanics wise...
lore too - Varn is pretty much Malakim material as it is , i even was suprised that someone can challenge him for Malakim leadership

If it's a choice between two then I must say that its feels obvious you start as Bannor, and then get to pick between Malakim and Calabim.

Actually it makes sense to start Malakim, decide that you wish to settle down in "Civilization" and choose between the Good and Evil Warmongering Civilized Options.

Having said that though, I just looked at the Scenarios, and I would say that the chain which makes the most sense would be:

The Fall of Cuantine
Into the Desert
Wages of Sin
Against the Grey


If that guess is correct, then it would certainly sound like Malakim is not the start of it all, but one of the two options. So whoever owns Cuantine would be the origin Civ. I'd guess Bannor, but then what Sin must be attoned for later? So that is an arguement in favor of starting Calabim, being defeated, and then deciding between Malakim or Bannor for atonement. That is of course the more boring option, so I am in favor of starting Bannor currently.

Against the Gray - seems its some campaign played against Sidar (90% sure - by image and by name). But why Decius will oppose sidar actually??????

The most likely explanation I can think of is that the Sidar have embraced Esus, and so the Malakim want to convert them through steel and flame :devil:

Or maybe they are just too neutral for him.


What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?

I hate these filthy neutrals, Kif! With enemies, you know where they stand, but with neutrals—who knows. It sickens me.

....etc

Or maybe they are just too neutral for him.


What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?

I hate these filthy neutrals, Kif! With enemies, you know where they stand, but with neutrals—who knows. It sickens me.

....etc

:lol:

Last place I expected to see that.

I see a pattern concerning the question of what order Decius went from civ to civ. The Bannor are always the corrupt fanatics, the Malakim the enlightened wisemen. So I'm going to play the devil's advocate and offer this possible scenario. I'm going with lust as his deadly sin, since it's simple, and by far the most fun to write about, but in from what I've seen it would most likely be greed or pride that led to his downfall. But continuing with the enjoyable theme of lust:
Decius started out as a Bannor general, a respected and capable leader trusted by his men and his superiors. But he managed to run afoul of a legitimate Bannor/Order law. Let's say he got too close to some good-looking Svartalfar agent, got drunk one night, and gave away the location of various prized Bannor treasures. As a result, Decius went from trusted general to traitor as the Svartalfar ran off with Capria's prized sword.
Having thus angered his old people, he made a run for it and found himself in Malakim territory. He decided to start fresh in the Malakim lands, and quickly climbed the ladder from "nobody" to trusted general, managing to avoid Bannor envoys and keeping his former screw-ups a secret. The Empyrean was willing to give mercy and forgiveness, and Decius took that as an opprotunity, making himself known as much for his wanton escapades and ribald parties as his genuinely brilliant tactics. The Empyrean soon ran out of philosophical reasons to forgive Decius' many and infamous sins, but kept doing so to avoid losing the finest general the Malakim had... it was even worth paying the massive bodyguard needed to keep away the many angry husbands and fathers. One particular night, however, a particularly pale woman came to his door and offered him an opprotunity he couldn't refuse...
Shortly thereafter, Decius disappeared from the Malakim lands, leaving their army in disarray. Meanwhile, the Calabim empire started gaining territory at an alarming rate...

And why can't he start as a Calabim?

because then it would be a story of redemption instead of corruption, which just isn't as dark. Also, if he had risen to a leader of the Calabim he would be a vampire, and probably would not be welcomed by the other civs.

because then it would be a story of redemption instead of corruption, which just isn't as dark. Also, if he had risen to a leader of the Calabim he would be a vampire, and probably would not be welcomed by the other civs.

It would be just as dark if he started Calabim and set out to corrupt the two lightest civs. The guy can fake his alignment after all. Could be one of Alexis's & Flauros's generals, or more likely he's out on a personal mission. Perhaps after his exile he found his way into the Calabim nation where he learned the true meaning of servility, so he sought to exploit the sheepish nature of the Order and the bureaucracy of the Empyrean.

It would be just as dark if he started Calabim and set out to corrupt the two lightest civs. The guy can fake his alignment after all. Could be one of Alexis's & Flauros's generals, or more likely he's out on a personal mission. Perhaps after his exile he found his way into the Calabim nation where he learned the true meaning of servility, so he sought to exploit the sheepish nature of the Order and the bureaucracy of the Empyrean.

ohh, I like the way you think. Why'd we bother to plan things out, anyway? So easy to steal from fans as bright as ours ;)

ohh, I like the way you think. Why'd we bother to plan things out, anyway? So easy to steal from fans as bright as ours ;)What you don't do that? When GMing pen-and-paper RPGs, I was told it was easier to create a mystery, let the players create an elaborate explanation for how and why, then just nod and congratulate them on their cleverness in figuring it out. (No, I'm not kidding.)

In fact, I did do something like this once. That game I had concocted an elaborate evil conspiracy, and the players were slowly unraveling it (as they should). However, one of them realized the implications of some plot elements I had missed and so deduced that the conspiracy was even more evil and far-ranged than I had intended. Naturally, he and the other players immediately thought this was the original plan of the cabal all along. Since it was so much better than what I had planned, I changed course on the spot.

What you don't do that?Oh, plenty of times, but Kael has the scenarios already outlined before the speculation started, and the 3 main story paths moreso.
No one's saying good stuff couldn't be added, though.

What you don't do that? When GMing pen-and-paper RPGs, I was told it was easier to create a mystery, let the players create an elaborate explanation for how and why, then just nod and congratulate them on their cleverness in figuring it out. (No, I'm not kidding.)

In fact, I did do something like this once. That game I had concocted an elaborate evil conspiracy, and the players were slowly unraveling it (as they should). However, one of them realized the implications of some plot elements I had missed and so deduced that the conspiracy was even more evil and far-ranged than I had intended. Naturally, he and the other players immediately thought this was the original plan of the cabal all along. Since it was so much better than what I had planned, I changed course on the spot.

I do exactly that regularly, especially since I just can't be bothered with planning everything in detail. It's much easier to just improvise when someone else is doing the improvisation ;)

I have a feeling Sofista was on to something with Alcibiades. Here's my take: Decius was probably one of the Bannor's greatest leaders, but also a bit of a non-conformist. At some point, he does a mockery of Order rites while drunk (maybe pretending to be the "non-existent" Sabathiel - I wonder how many people actually come into contact with him - or another important religious figure).

Forced to flee, he heads to Malakim lands, as they are open to refugees. There, he manages to act like a perfect Malakim and rise through the ranks to be one of their main leaders. Everything is going well until he begins a relationship with Talia Gosam (hey, we know she's a little loose) and runs afoul of Varn.

Forced to flee, you have the choice returning to the Bannor and braving any harsh consequences or joining the Calabim, whom the Bannor (or Malakim) were fighting against at the time. The final scenario has you playing as the Bannor against the Calabim, either as Decius or against him. Upon completing the scenario, it gives you the option of playing the final battle again, but as Decius and the Calabim.

I have a feeling MC was on to something with Alcibiades.Correction: Sofista (http://forums.civfanatics.com/member.php?u=102494) was the one to bring up the comparison to Alcibiades originally.

Correction: Sofista (http://forums.civfanatics.com/member.php?u=102494) was the one to bring up the comparison to Alcibiades originally.

Oh, sorry, thanks for catching that. It has been fixed.

It is actually a honor... Magister is as close to ipse dixit status as one can be without actually being in the team as is possible :)

"All people are equal, but some are more equal then others" sorta how i think of MC as a mind reader and craves to share with us. (he is the more equal part but does not abuse his position, which makes him even cooler)

I would say Decius should be the mercenary king, completely neutral, worships no gods, simply fighting for whoever pays him gold. A Hippus legend if I can see one.

Note: I might be pratteling madness with this, I haven't maneged to play .32 yet, so please be indulgent.
Fromwhat I've read in the Forum's concerning Decius, his story might follow thus: Decius was one of the greatest Generals of the Bannor not to have survived hell. He lead the Bannor to victories rivaled only by Capria herself. Some people even thought him immortal. However, even the greatest hero has flaws. Decius was ambitius, but that was exeptable. Until Pavu'nar. Decius conviced Capria that their situation could be improved in the world by stricking the Calabim, that weakening their power would allow Cardith Lorda's forces(Alexis and Flauros having a deep hated of the boy kiing or the Kuriotate) to aid the Bannor in their stuggles. Capria was persuaded. So the Bannor army, with Decius at it's head, set out for Pau'nar, and from there, Acaia. Apon arriving at Pavu'nar, they found three Calabim Ger\meral (Sheol, Perdion and Losha Valas) incommand of an approcimatly equally matched for. With strokes of Genius, Decius difeted the Calabim Army, and entered the town undefended. The Bannor celibrated their victory(at Decius's encoragment). In the morning, allmost all the Bannor were dead, posioned by the food, water and wine of the town. Decius knew it was he that had incoraged the celbration that had resulted in the death so many men, knew he would probably be exicuted by the Bannor, so he fled. He fled to court in Prespur, and once their, managed to purswaed Flauros and Alexis to let him design plans to strike back at the Bannor. So great were his successes, that he was "gifted'.
Decius was the second greatest Clabim genral ever, second only to his archrival Losha Valas. So great was their rivalry, that Decius axepted Loashas's challenge to destroy either the Bannor or the Malikim from the inside. The Bannor know and hate him, but the sun in the Malaki desert could prove to much for a vampire. So now, he will have to chose which proverbial dragon's lair to enter. And once in, will he be able to resiste the temptation to betraye his current side again?

I don't really know if this'd make any difference about Decius story, but I can't imagine a good leader pretending to be evil. You can PICK his alignment, and I think there is only one reason for it: he's truely commited only to his personal goals. It's not the same thing as starting out with a different alignment to each one of the civs, you are actually able to choose your path within 3 different civs. If he was an originally good (or even not that good at all that) leader that got corrupted with time, you wouldn't be able to pick his alignment.

I was very surprised to notice that Decius was able to pick his alignment and lead 3 different civs, so I rushed to this forum; I had never even opened this section before. So I'm taking a completely wild guess here, as I'm completely IGNORANT to FFH's lore, but based on what I've read here, Kael's post that seemed to be quite ignored about calabim and malakim conflicts, and the tip on the "Against the Grey" scenario: perhaps Decius is a Calabim general or leader (yes, a vampire!) that got involved (or was orderred to) in a dispute with the Sidar, and figured the best opportunity to defeat them would be infiltrating amongst the Malakim or the Bannor leaderships and incitating them against the Sidar. After all, they both are religious fanatics in different ways, and, although the Sidar aren't demons or destruction lovers like the Infernals or the Sheaim, they are "ghosts", fact which also doesn't come along with the "stepping into the light" or "unquestioning heavenly obedience" politics. And I'd say that the duel between the Sidar and the Calabim was caused by "food". =p

Ya, I might be wrong, but I did say that Decius might find that he actually is good, or he might be trying to effect the Bannor or Malikim(hope I spelt it right) for so that they might be weak againts the Calabim(only in the scenario's) or in order to spit the Calacim, like maybe Losha Valas.
Say, was the other army at the battle of Pavu'nar ever identified, because if it was, well, my story would have to change.

So, the long and the short of it is Decius changed allegiances sometime and can be any of the three alignments. Ok, so, his story is similar to Alcibiades. This all makes lotta sense, man.

Kael has confirmed that the story of Decius is not a redemption but his fall.

Judging by the fact we have a choice which will allow us to go from good to good or good to evil, I think it could be fall or not.

you mean evil to good, not good to good.

Anyways, I think maybe he is not actually a leader of the Calabim and the real ones are Bannor and Malakim. The main reason is because his diplomacy preferences don't really match that of an inherently evil civ/leader or the Calabim for one.

I think he actual meant Neutral to Good or Neutral to Evil

Why? The civs are Bannor, Malakim, and Calabim. So the only logically possible choices are good to good, good to evil, or evil to good, depending on how it plays out...
edit: Or wait, Magister is probably refering to the "choose alignment" event in game. That makes sense.

Kael refered to the story of Decius as a fall in the Fall from Heaven? Whose??? Thread post 12 just for reference.

Here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6987204&postcount=12) Kael refers to Decius's story as a Metaphorical Fall from Heaven.

But we clearly have a choice, so we must have a chance to escape falling.

Not necessarily. The choice might be turned off in the scenarios. Maybe Kael just wants us to get used to him having different alignments. He may be always good in his first appearance, neutral in his second, and Evil in his last.

You do have a choice.
http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www.cgi/http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6860632&postcount=48

So start as Malakim, then decide between Bannor and Calabim (good and evil) based on your actions seems to make the most sense (though it'd be fun if the Evil choice was Bannor :))

well there was the corrupt order so it could still be bannor as evil and the calabim as the slightly less evil (which is good in this mod)

Isnt the Bannor Decius Neutral? I know the Calabim one is Evil and I am geussing the Malakim one would be Good.

How it appears to me is that Decius was a Malakim general that became convinced that the Empyrean wasnt doing enough to stop evil. He tried to take control of the Overcouncil and turn it more militant. He was then either overthrown/exiled and fled to the militant Bannor. In the Bannor he was hailed as a hero, but eventually he became accustome to people waiting at his beck and call, creating a serfdom where he was served. Then someone came to the Bannor who then overthrew him. Wanting to remain a master of people, and perhaps wanting to spite the Malakim who caused him to fall, he fled to the Calabim where he became a 'gifted' general.

I don't think we're looking at this progression correctly. The discussion mainly revolves around his path through three civs, though we know he will only play for two in the scenarios. That being the case, there are two possiblities:

Decius starts out as Bannor and has to choose between Malakim and Calabim, or

Decius starts out as Malakim and has to choose between Bannor and Calabim

If Decius starts out as Bannor, I see this as the probable story: General Decius is a brilliant tactician and warrior who makes enemies among the Bannor for his ambition. He must flee the Bannor, either driven out by the corrupt Order, or after somehow commiting sacrilege. After his fall, he finds himself in the desert, swept up into a war - and he must decide who to lead to victory. (Very temptation of Christ in the desert, with a little money-changers-in-the-temple thrown in)

If he starts out as Malakim, he could have a very deterministic fall. Supposingly fighting for wisdom and justice, he grows addicted to his bloodlust, and makes war, not for the sake of the Good, but for the sake of the battle. After revolting the Malakim with some atrocity, he is exiled/escapes death, and either betrays them directly by leading the Calabim, or leads the Bannor. As leader of the Bannor, if the Order is already corrupt, he simply attempts to destroy his former nation. Or he could be a corrupting agent, manipulating the Bannor into attacking nations that simply aren't Order, rather than evil nations. (e.g. Why Islamic Fundamentalist terrorists attack Christians and moderate Muslims instead of Satanists - play on the arrogance of narcissism, and anyone can become the Great Satan)

Since Decius's story is confirmed to be a "Fall from Heaven", I didn't include any obviously redemptive arcs. Actually, with that logic, I suppose you could throw out his start as a Bannor General, since the possiblity of redemption exists with the Malakim, barring a web of corruption and deception I can't imagine.

The divided soul has a Pedia entry about Decius.

The divided soul has a Pedia entry about Decius.I think we now know his motive in the 'Against the Grey' scenario now. :mischief:

Decius somewhat reminds me of Kylorin becoming a king then falling from his throne and ascending to another just as fast. :king:

Decius somewhat reminds me of Kylorin becoming a king then falling from his throne and ascending to another just as fast.

Maybe Decius IS... <_< >_> Ky- *killed by the FFH secret police*

Can someone post the pedia entry? I can't get .34 for a while because of computer trouble :(.

Here it is:
Verdian moved slowly through the camp. The falling snow gave more notice to the alert soldiers on the perimeter than he did, but he moved slowly anyway. He could be perceived by some alert or spiritually attuned individuals if he were careless, so he stayed out of the moonlight and followed the winds. The winds were stronger than he had expected at this time, even at the foothills of Tempus Mor. The snowfall was unseasonal as well, and he used that to his advantage, getting ever closer to the center of the camp without drawing notice.

The guards at the large tent were less alert, but more experienced. One man was warming himself by a large fire as Verdian passed, and his form was outlined in the smoke. The guard drew his scimitar and stepped back into the doorway of the tent, alert now though he couldn't guess for what. Verdian took a risk and pushed past him. The guardsman felt the heat of the fire give way to a chill, but the tent was sturdy and should have blocked the wind. While a false alarm may bring some menial punishment and minor humiliation upon him, ignoring an intruder here could bring his death. He called out, "Lord Commander Decius! Awaken, I fear some magic about us." Decius stirred from his rest on the floor of the tent, and other sentries rushed in.

Emotion was tempered in Verdian, like his kin, and even more so when so far from his slowly beating heart. He felt neither irritation nor fear when he heard the sentry's call, but pushed himself to action. Sidar Divided Souls would usually will their somnolent bodies to reunite with their spirits slowly, and all at once. This was more for their comfort than from necessity, however. Verdian's hands appeared in the air above Decius' chest, clasped together and holding a slim stiletto. Even as the muscle and sinew of his arms and shoulders followed he forced it to begin a downward descent, despite the pain this would cause him as the rest of his body took shape.

The sentries were stunned for a critical moment by this spectacle, gasping in awe but unable to reach the killer in time. Decius had been forged in far more battles than the desert warriors he now led, and had seen and slain far more frightening apparitions. He rolled out of the way, saving his heart from the blade. Verdian pierced his upper arm and hopped back, drawing another blade. His form was now complete, and though his body complained of this painful transition, his will was stronger.

Decius reached for his blade, or tried to. His arm was numb, and not from pain. If the poison coating the stiletto had reached his heart, instead... He pulled the attacker's weapon out with his left hand and prepared to parry. He didn't have to, for by now his men were surrounding him. Decius finally got a chance to get a better look at Verdian, but the garb that obscured showed only that he was a human man. "You aren't the one I expected," he said.

Verdian needed but a moment to concentrate, to separate. His soul would be unable to be bound by strong arms, and if he could get beyond the bounds of the camp he could pull his body back to him. Sandalphon would need to know he had failed his task. Rathus and the others would hopefully fare better against their targets. He closed his eyes, pushed away from his body... but was drawn back with a cry.

Decius held a torch against the hunter's body. "I'm afraid we need to have a chat before you leave. Who are you and why did you try to kill me?"

well, well, well... reading that, it's obvious decius is much more powerful than i expected...

that kind of makes me beleive decius may be Kylorin... (or a refallen Kylorin...)

Does anyone remember if there is any group of nine (or ten) creatures in Erebus?

Guild of the nine, as mentioned before; BUT!

How about Ride of the nine kings?

The Tenth and Final King!

well, well, well... reading that, it's obvious decius is much more powerful than i expected...

As a military commander who is apparently good enough to earn the respect of the Bannor and capable of surviving amongst Calabim aristocracy, I think he pretty much had to be. That said, his specific powers are a bit surprising, though they do make sense for someone who had "slain apparitions". All in all it seems that he might also be an arch-enemy of the Sidar who manipulates everybody else in order to destroy Sandalphon. Just a crazy thought, though.

Also, I think it's pretty much assured now that he was with the Bannor first, and then at least temporarily went over to the Malakim:
Decius had been forged in far more battles than the desert warriors he now led, and had seen and slain far more frightening apparitions.

if he were a sworn enemy of the Sidar though, I guess he would know very well what a Divided Soul is ;)

It doesn't really say that he's a sworn enemy; to me it implies more that the Sidar are working to kill heroes as that guy usurping Arawn wants. Decius has no argument against the Sidar, really.

It doesn't really say that he's a sworn enemy; to me it implies more that the Sidar are working to kill heroes as that guy usurping Arawn wants. Decius has no argument against the Sidar, really.

Agreed. He seems more curious then anything. "Who are you, and why did you want to kill me?" not "die, Sidar dog!" Whether the underworld's usurper is involved or not remains to be seen, but clearly the Sidar would rather him in the realm of the dead than that of the living. It's likely Decius didn't even consider the Sidar as part of the political picture. "You aren't the one I expected." He had an army, but it seems more likely they were marching off to face some third party, and the Sidar simply decided to eliminate Decius for some reason.

Plus he didn't do anything super powerful. Decius just broke the Divided Soul's concentration by shoving a torch to his chest.

Still, why apparitions? It's rather specific. And the Sidar are good at keeping secrets, so he might not have learned all that much about them yet - hell, maybe he specifically wanted to lure, catch and interrogate one. Plus, he did apparently know what to do with the Divided Soul, or at least figured it out quickly enough. Maybe he didn't know for sure that this assassin was a Divided Soul and not anyone else that might want to kill a general in a dark fantasy world during a military campaign.

I would say that Spectors would probably count as more frightening apparitions, and that wraiths and demons probably would too. I'm thinking that he was a Bannor commander who was charged with a task from the Overcouncil against the Calabim even after the corrupted Bannor made peace with them, and who can choose to continue to carry out the Overcouncil's orders leading the Malakim forces, or to betray them and serve the Calabim. I'm not really sure how the Sidar fit in though. Maybe they just allied wiht the Calabim and the Undercouncil.

I think the Sidar just went off and declared war on everybody due to orders from Laroth.

wait... you think the Sidar declared war?

Ride of the nine kings Oh, I gotta get to that... thanks for the reminder...

wait... you think the Sidar declared war?

Well, not officially - but they tried to whack the leaders/heros of most nations without warning, yeah. More like a mass assassination, to be followed by hiding or a defensive war until Laroth uses those souls to complete his overthrow of Arawn.

Perhaps "declared" was a bad word. They started a war with everybody.

The pedia entry says the pass is snowing, and should be at that time of years, which suggests Auric is near to ascending. Decius could be leading a war against him.

The Sidar do not feel very much, so another Age of Ice would not be detrimental, but beneficial. I think they would be immune to the cold, and the cold would keep otherss from disturbing their paths. I could definetly see the Sidar and Doviello siding with the Illians in a final showdown against the other nations.

The Sidar do not feel very much, so another Age of Ice would not be detrimental, but beneficial. I think they would be immune to the cold, and the cold would keep otherss from disturbing their paths. I could definetly see the Sidar and Doviello siding with the Illians in a final showdown against the other nations.

I disagree. They may not strongly sense things, but that doesn't make them less vulnerable. It might just make them slower at reacting to a real danger, making them more vulnerable.

Still, they certainly could decide that a little cold is a small price to pay for the utter destruction of any enemies they might have made.

Also, the Civilopedia entry about Sandalphon does make it seem likely for him to at least coexist with Mulcarn.

maybe decius is laroth who came back from the underworld to bring more souls there so when he is finished here, he can go back and have a larger empire. Charadon and Duin came back from the dead. Laroth then should have that capability. This would explain why he hates the sidar since they stole his tomes from him and left his empire.

All very fascinating suggestions... Can't wait to find out what the truth is, though. :D

Umm...no.


Laroth doesn't hate the Sidar. He likes them more than anyone, because although they think they serve Arawn they have long been serving him. The Sidar didn't steal his tomes, the Once-Elves did. The Sidar were never in his empire, unless you count Rathaus Denmora just barely entering it to talk to an angel in his service thinking he was going to serve Arawn. I doubt that the Sidar know Laroth exists. The Sidar got these books from the Malakim, as Varn (or, more likely imho, his wife Talia) Gossam took them out of the Shadowed Vale, after Varn's father had taken them from Laroth. He likes that the Sidar use these books, and very well may have meant them to be found. The rituals don't just slowly devour their souls to give long life, they slowly transfer their souls to Laroth for him to use to gain power. Laroth forged the Netherblade out of stolen souls specifically to give to Rathaus Denmora so he could capture more, stronger souls to help him defeat Arawn and become a god.


Duin and Charadon didn't just "come back," they were resurrected using powerful life magic that became available only after Sucellus was resurrected. This wasn't possible until recently. Hmm...on second thought, such power might have been available from within the netherworld when Arawn was god of both life and death. I'll just assume it is something that must be used in the plane where one is to be resurrected though.

I'm not sure he would want to be resurrected anyway. The netherworld is much more responsive to his will, and his Spirit magic is more important there. He probably wouldn't want to return until he ascends to godhood. (Hmm...would he even be bound by the Compact and thus vulnerable to the Godslayer like the other gods, as he wasn't around when the Compact was signed?)




I see no evidence that Decius is a sorcerer of any kind, much less one so strong as Laroth or Kyorlin.

I see no evidence that Decius is a sorcerer of any kind, much less one so strong as Laroth or Kyorlin.

Verdian needed but a moment to concentrate, to separate. His soul would be unable to be bound by strong arms, and if he could get beyond the bounds of the camp he could pull his body back to him. Sandalphon would need to know he had failed his task. Rathus and the others would hopefully fare better against their targets. He closed his eyes, pushed away from his body... but was drawn back with a cry.


It seems that he knows some very interesting magic.

That isn't magic, its a loss of concentration. Decius started to set his body on fire. Veridan was hearing himself cry in pain, making him unable to maintain the concentration needed to seperate. Knowing how to stop someone else from being able to finish using their magic does not require magic.

Ah, I read that as Decius holding the torch up to him after drawing him back. "Held up to" doesn't seem to convey the same thing as "pressed against" or the like.

Yeah, that was more to show him being pragmatically brutal than mystically powerful. (That's why we mentioned that Veridan needed to concentrate a moment.)

It seems a far more reasonable conclusion to assume he was burning Veridan than that he was using magical powers to achieve the same end... seems like such thoughs are just there if you're hoping he is Laroth or Kyorlin. Too many heroes from the past have been brought back and as has been said before, they don't like to play the same trick again twice.

Decius started to set his body on fire.

That's very clever of him, not to mention awesome. I get the impression that, in addition to being "pragmatically brutal", he is also pretty savvy at counteracting various magical opponents (I guess that comes with fighting apparitions). I wonder if this will be reflected in the campaign (I suspect that he will also be a Hero in the scenarios)?

There's a possibility that he is Kylorin before Kylorin was taught magic by Cerdiwen. Also, I think I read somehwere that the Bannor, Malakim, and Calabim are the only 'Patrian' nations. I could be wrong but it makes sort of sense Decius is pre-magic Kylorin.

There's a possibility that he is Kylorin before Kylorin was taught magic by Cerdiwen. Also, I think I read somehwere that the Bannor, Malakim, and Calabim are the only 'Patrian' nations. I could be wrong but it makes sort of sense Decius is pre-magic Kylorin.


there are also Elohim, Balseraph, and was (but it changed) Kuriotates, also Hippus have their roots in Patria

One issue is that the One reserved control over time for himself, and not even the gods themselves can alter it in any way. I suppose the One could have pulled a pre-magic Kylorin into the future for some reason, but that's so convoluted that Occam's Razor comes into play: the simplest explanation is probably the correct one. So I'm assuming that Decius is just a bad-ass commander of the Bannor who falls and then (maybe) redeems himself.

A Bannor vampire amongst the Malakim? ;)

there are also Elohim, Balseraph, and was (but it changed) Kuriotates, also Hippus have their roots in Patria

Well, maybe....

It's tough to define which nations, exactly, are "Patrian": there are a couple direct descendents but there are a host of civs that are questionable. This was discussed in another thread, somewhere - found it, it's this one (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=293244).

That's a bit off-topic, but for the curious it's there.



Back to the point, I would highly doubt that the One would have any time-traveling escapades. If he's coming back, it's to kick ass and take names, not to peddle with sending random people around the time-space continuum.

Except for the small problem of if he comes back he'll destroy all of Creation. I highly doubt Decius is Kylorin. He just doesn't seem to have the same feel as Kylorin if you know what I mean.

Decius seems to be pretty good at survival is what I see in the entry for the Divided Soul. He'd have to be in order to survive, though.

Also, I get the picture that he's probably extremely intelligent... and arrogant. This may have lead to him never seeing himself being betrayed, which I'm guessing betrayal is heavily laden in his story. :D

Also, I get the picture that he's probably extremely intelligent... and arrogant. This may have lead to him never seeing himself being betrayed, which I'm guessing betrayal is heavily laden in his story. :DThat's definitely the sense given by his meeting-for-the-first-time statement: "Thrones sit easily beneath me; remain true, and I'll allow you to keep yours." (that's from memory so it may be a little mangled)

Using fire against those using magic is a very old trick. It is just about the only thing the Bannor did back in the Age of Magic. I'm sure they continued doing so in the Age of Rebirth, although they had to be more careful as the weapon was no longer harmless to the innocent. I'm sure almost any Bannor commander would have resorted to fire in such cases.


I believe it has been stated that Decius doesn't lead all three civs, he leads one and then must make a choice that will decide which other civ he with switch too. I think having him be a Bannor commander who much choose between the Calabim and Malakim makes a lot more sense than any other combination. He is not a vampire when he leads the Malakim.


I'm pretty certain that he is not Kyorlin, and especially not a Kyorlin taken from the past. Only The One would have been able to do so, and there is no evidence of him having any involvement in Creation since before the Godswar.

Kael has repetedly stated he dislike time travel.

Using fire against those using magic is a very old trick. It is just about the only thing the Bannor did back in the Age of Magic. I'm sure they continued doing so in the Age of Rebirth, although they had to be more careful as the weapon was no longer harmless to the innocent. I'm sure almost any Bannor commander would have resorted to fire in such cases.


Nice point.


I believe it has been stated that Decius doesn't lead all three civs, he leads one and then must make a choice that will decide which other civ he with switch too. I think having him be a Bannor commander who much choose between the Calabim and Malakim makes a lot more sense than any other combination. He is not a vampire when he leads the Malakim.


Agreed, most definitely. Bannor seems like the most likely start, and I believe that it makes sense when coupled with the fact that the Malakim would very likely to welcome him.

I dont think that Kylorin time traveled, simply came back. Possible reason is becasue he is the most powerful mage, with all of the other civs using magic, Kylorin got pulled back to Erebus or after he slew mulcarn, mulcarn somehow took hold of his soul and trapped it. With Mulcarn now inhabiting Auric Ulvin, Kylorin came back to Erebus and might have been 'remade'.

Slightly off topic, but I'd just like to thank whichever FFH writer put me in the Divided Soul entry. I really appreciate it. :D

...even if I do probably get brutally tortured and killed.

Where are people getting this idea that Decius is Kylorin? I can't find anywhere in the story that even hints at the possibility.

Besides, if he was Kylorin reborn he'd surely be fighting Auric (not sidar), have some kind of connection to the amurites and would have magic (both of which he clearly does not).

He might not have a connection with the Amurites if Eve had been reborn else where. That said, I agree, there isn't any real reason to think that Decius is Kylorin.

"Who is Decius?"

"He's a Bannor Vampire!"

"He's a Malakim sheik!"

"He's Kylorin reborn!"

"He's a chicken, I tell you! A giant chicken (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_Boo)!"

:p

Ok I joke around that hes Kylorin and everything goes insane, hes not god damn Kylorin.

Hes just a general, maybe a damn good general, but thats it. He will probably be related to someone important, like Kylorin, hell I dunno. But hes not anyone we already know about.

Slightly off topic, but I'd just like to thank whichever FFH writer put me in the Divided Soul entry. I really appreciate it. :D

...even if I do probably get brutally tortured and killed.

Nikis-Knight wrote the entry, but I recommended that your name be used in credit for designing the unit. :goodjob: (and in shame that it took me so long to get the unit in).

"Who is Decius?"

"He's a Bannor Vampire!"

"He's a Malakim sheik!"

"He's Kylorin reborn!"

"He's a chicken, I tell you! A giant chicken (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_Boo)!"

:pKlucklorin?

The answer is actually quite simple.

I AM DECIUS.

Nikis-Knight wrote the entry, but I recommended that your name be used in credit for designing the unit. :goodjob: (and in shame that it took me so long to get the unit in).

Let's hear it for shame! :lol:

Well, thanks to the both of you. I'd imagine the mechanic to make the unit work was a pain to program, so it is understandable that it took so long. A lot of people thought it wouldn't even work.

Let's hear it for shame! :lol:

Well, thanks to the both of you. I'd imagine the mechanic to make the unit work was a pain to program, so it is understandable that it took so long. A lot of people thought it wouldn't even work.

and thanks to you all for developing such a fun unit! Just playing a Sidar game - the Divided Soul is *the* exploration unit.

In my current game it allowed me to explore a chain of islands two tiles off well before anyone had sailing, as well as a chunk of land cut off from the rest of the continent by a chain of mountains.

Cultural borders too become less of a problem with exploration

...plus, whilst theres micromanagement involved, it can help shuttle a unit along very quickly.

It makes the Divided Soul a worthy unit to still build well after Shadows and Rangers becomes available

No... I AM DECIUS!

I'm still hoping MC will show up and patiently give a detailed explanation of why this cannot be the case.

I'm still hoping MC will show up and patiently give a detailed explanation of why this cannot be the case.

I was trying to get a kind of "No, I am Spartacus!" kind of thing going, but you ruined it, good job. I hope your proud of your self.

I have a soft spot for the theory he was the tenth king. I don't know why. Maybe it is his name.

I have a soft spot for the theory he was the tenth king. I don't know why. Maybe it is his name.Hmm, that does make a lot of sense...

Yeah, but we don't even know who the Nine Kings are so that doesn't tell us a whole lot.

The thing about such a late game wonder is that it could represent almost any nation by that point. Any nation with kings would definitely have gone through nine (at least mortal nations) by the point in the game that the wonder comes in.

Something I've personally wondered, what's the time scale in the average FFH normal speed game? I've always assumed that the early turns would be five to ten years each and the later game turns would be perhaps a season or two.

Something I've personally wondered, what's the time scale in the average FFH normal speed game? I've always assumed that the early turns would be five to ten years each and the later game turns would be perhaps a season or two.

There is no set span. The team made the year dissapear to avoid questions like, "Why is Rantine 900 years old?" I simply make each turn the length I want it to, sometimes a day (early game exploration) or years.

I had always assumed that the nine kings were all contemporaries from different nations, probably members of some sort of an alliance.

That could be true, that could make the wonder some sort of "best of the world" horse training center forged in a great war. Well, maybe. :p

I've been thinking about his campaign, and here is what I think happens in it:

Decius starts as a Bannor leader in Fall of Cuantine. I think this may be where we learn about Rosier's fall, because Cuantine is presumably something important to the Bannor and his fall may be what causes it's fall. Decius then flees to a desert for some reason, where he and his men fights and does something I don't know what is. I think we get to choose between Malakim and Calabim in Wages of Sin, mostly because that means two scenarios for each civilization. He pursues some agenda dependent on which side he chooses (possibly fighting against the civilization he turned down). The Sidar then decides to pick a fight with him and the last scenario (Against the Grey) is him fighting them.

What do you think about my theory? And did I miss some lore that means it's totally impossible for that to happen?