It wasnt enough to make more of them have obsoletion techs. You can still stack copernicus's, einsteins, and isaac newtons etc to get a megacity just by putting off those techs which will obsolete them.

It's too much, and it leads to this kind of spiralling Technological Singularity situation where one person () the ai is never smart enough to do it) just starts tumbling into the future faster and faster, their capitol city generating more research on its own than all the other game members entire empires do.

the singularity hits, and the faster a tech is learned, the faster other techs are learned. You get so far ahead that you get the +research buildings others do not, (laboratories and the like) which just makes it even faster.

Discussion with my friend leads me to think that wonders should be in overarching categories like WONDER_RESEARCH, WONDER_WEALTH, WONDER_CULTURE, WONDER_SPECIAL

and wonders in the same class should not be buildable more than once in the same city. So no Einsteins lab plus Edisons workshop plus Copernicus's observatory all in Carthage, but you could have Edisons plus the Sistine Chapel or something.

the "buildings obsolte other buildings" thread I made here could do that, couldnt it?

how about instead of putting %'s i.e. +100% beakers etc, they could just have +20 beakers, resulting in scientific buildings able to still be stacked, but it wont be exponentially stacked, just statically

+20 beakers is huge when you consider the effects of libraries/observatories/universities alone much less oxford then laboratories schools etc etc

thats hundreds of beakers potentially.

If I had my way they'd just be out of the game. Fastest way to ruin a civ match is to unbalance the tech race. Oxford is enough, and that's equal to everybody. It's when you give giant advantages in beaker output to only one civ ( via world wonders) that things get pooched.

+20 beakers was only an example, more like +2 - +5 max, but the point is is that its better than the exponential stacking of percentages

On what difficulty level you usually play? Difficulty is major factor to many things, including how fast AI players discover techs - currently playing Emporer level game which I started to test it out and I'm falling badly behind in tech race.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be more nerfs to those wonders, but I just like to hear more opinions about them from other people as well - preferably also reports from different difficulty levels - before I make any adjustments to those wonders.

you could change the ratio of difficulty/size/speed to come out more accurately...

We've been playing on emperor lately, though I despite doing that, my friend tends to insist. ( why run a marathon with cinderblock shoes?)

we play on Standard or Large maps since Huge ends up laggy by industrial era. Epic speed always.

The only time the AI gets ahead in technology is at the beginning. Something that I hate by the way, since I love amun ra and think it's the best overall religion but the AI beelines for it and obtains it first :P ( three national wonders with massive cool benefits like 25% food storage and monasteries that add health and 2smile temples? sign me up!)

the technological singularity sort of future tumbling always starts sometime around civil service, if I had to put a common point on it. Either because thats when platos academy is generally eligible to be built in our games or because the trade economy is starting to take off for Sustained Peace bonus, I dont know for sure.

In connection with research it is important to mention gold income... I believe wonders (and buildings) that increase gold income needs to be tweaked as well because with the huge surplus of gold you can get around the renaissance you can pretty much keep the research at 100% and still have a surplus.

case in point, here's my friend's civ as seen from the demographics screen. Note his research and gold income in the upper left, and how he's by far number 1 in everything. Fact was, he generated more research in his capitol ALONE than my whole empire did as the number 2 GNP in the game.

It was this way for such a long time that he was something like thirty technologies ahead of me. Game ruined.