I'm trying to fill the 'time' entry in my EQM so I played a quick small map against the three american leaders. I was totally kicking butt and was in cruise control, spreading Sid's sushi around to grow as big as possible. I was getting the dom warning during my last war and finally kicked Washington off my island with 1 tile to spare.

I also had 2 small cities on a 6 tile island that I decided to set free, just to stay well below the dom limit ...

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/4615/dom0019es6.jpg

... and the stupid dom limit reduced! REDUCED :gripe: I hate :mad: this game. Domination next turn and I had just got my domination hole filled last game (that time I got the tile count exactly right with 5 vassals and 1 person still free).

I used to complain to people about this, but all I ever got were people telling me that the domination limit never changed. So I gave up, because nobody ever believed me. I wish I could find that thread and wheel it out again here.

Wow. I never heard about this ???!!! The dom limit *reduces* ? Urgh.

Well yea, of course it reduces. You created another civ (vassal). Haven't you noticed the dom limit is lower when there are more civs? Compare an 8 civ map with a 4.

I had a turn to correct it - should of given some cities away and killed off Frederick - a bit harsh, welcome to the world ... time to die!

Update from my latest game: OCC warlords as Gandhi trying to get a quick space victory on a small map (or it could be tiny - one of the two). Got a PA with Mansa and we are really rocking ... I am too far South to build the Space Elevator so Mansa starts it in a 30 base hammer per turn city (great work Mansa!). We are just wrapping up our final war with Cyrus and the domination limit is getting close (about 10 tiles).

We finish the last required SS tech and Mansa starts the last part (drat!, my mistake - should have let him finish the tech). He puts it in a city that will finish the part 2 turns after the finish of the space elevator - in about 14 turns. My city could finish it in about 6. Oh well, will just wait.

2 turns before the last SS part finishes and with the HOF mod saying that I have 5 tiles to spare in the Dom limit, I win by DOM in 1871.

Space Elevator is useless, even more so in BTS. Not sure what they were thinking there. Here's a trick. Put the Elevator in your queue (but don't build it) then Mansa can't.

We finish the last required SS tech and Mansa starts the last part (drat!, my mistake - should have let him finish the tech).

Please explain this statement. I'd like to learn this. Are you saying you can control whether or not you get a chance to build the part instead of him? How does that work exactly?

why is the SE useless? It adds 50% of the base hammers - in my usual SS cities, that is about 20 to 25 hammers per turn. Nothing to be sneezed at.

Re my second comment ... some background that I am sure you know - beakers are added to the current tech just after you hit 'end turn'. You cannot build anything associated with that tech until you have completely finished researching it. Its straight up and down in SP games, but in a team game (or a PA game), if you finish the tech, then your partner can start to build the associated buildings, parts, etc. If your partner finishes the tech, then you get first go.

tech bar colors: bright green: beakers added; dark green: beakers to be added by you at the end of the turn; blank: beakers outstanding after you turn

If it is your turn and the tech bar shows any blank to the right only 1 turn to go on the tech, then your beakers will not finish the tech but your partners will. This means that you get first bite at the tech buildings, parts, etc. If there is no blank to the right, your partner gets first bite. If this is the case, then swap to another tech and let your partner finish the old tech by himself - just watch for when he finishes it for you.

SE: When you're already getting 100% aluminum, 100% Ironworks, 100% forge/factory/power, 50% Bureaucracy, 50% Lab, then SE is just a drop in the bucket. It's 50% amounts to more like a 10% boost.

And all that matters is your biggest 2 production cities. Who cares if another city takes 10-20 turns to make a casing as long as it's done before launch.

The SE could only ever save you 1 turn off your launch date. Most likely it will slow you down. The engineer(s) you wasted on it could've bulbed towards a tech.

Then in BTS it's worse because you don't even need Robotics to launch. They moved the part that required it.

I thought that team games were not allowed for HOF submissions.

I thought that team games were not allowed for HOF submissions.They aren't, but you can get a late game team effect by signing a permanent alliance.

I thought that team games were not allowed for HOF submissions.

Correct, team games aren't allowed. I believe the confusion lies in their word choice. In the above discussion they're using the word "team" in replacement of their "permanent ally", which is allowed. Team play as defined in the rules (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/rules.php) isn't allowed, but getting a permanent ally later in the game is allowed.

The word choice probably has to do with the fact that PAs are implemented in the game by merging two teams into one. Every player is on a team, and for HOF games that means teams of one. When you sign a PA, your team is merged with the AI's team. At this point it's no different than if you had started on the same team AFAIK.

At first I wondered why PAs were allowed, but then I remembered the point of HoF :p.

PAs can make the game much, much easier to win, but beating the AI isn't HoF's point :p.

At first I wondered why PAs were allowed, but then I remembered the point of HoF :p.

PAs can make the game much, much easier to win, but beating the AI isn't HoF's point :p.Actually, the HOF is all about beating the AI. If the AI beats you we don't accept it. :mischief:

Actually, the HOF is all about beating the AI. If the AI beats you we don't accept it. :mischief:

You know what I meant :rolleyes:. My point is that while PA's vastly increase the odds of a person winning a game above their level if they know a thing or two about diplomacy, they're not going to be showing up on the front page of HoF by piggybacking on the AI...they better actually be doing something themselves :p.

PA are a douple edged sword...especially at higher levels. By checking the PA option, you are not only allowing the player to ally with an AI, but also two AI players to ally against the player. The later seems to happen more at higher difficulty levels in my experience, or maybe it is just more noticable.

The word choice probably has to do with the fact that PAs are implemented in the game by merging two teams into one. Every player is on a team, and for HOF games that means teams of one. When you sign a PA, your team is merged with the AI's team. At this point it's no different than if you had started on the same team AFAIK.

Yes, I know I've had a heart attack a couple of times late-game seeing the settings page with a bright red "This game is not valid for HoF" (or similar). The reason given is that team games are not allowed. After a second, I realise it's because I've signed a PA and the game will be fine to submit.

Don't spread sushi around if you are going for time...

Don't spread sushi around if you are going for time...Why? A massive part of the score is city / population size.

The culture can cause you to go legendary if you're not careful. Civilised Jewellers is mroe of a no-no though.

Legendary is one problem, a more likely problem is culture for dom...

Don't spread sushi around if you are going for time...

Why? A massive part of the score is city / population size.Sushi also increases :culture: so if you are close to dom limits it can push you over the edge. The bottom line is to be aware of the dom limits if you are playing for a time VC.

You could accidently trigger a cultural VC too.

edit: didn't notice the 2nd page of the thread. I guess I'm late to reply.

The maps I was playing involved multiple continents and I had taken all of the land on my continent (with 1 tile to spare in the land dom limit). So, dom wasn't a problem. Until I created a vassal and the dom limit changed (this is in the first post).

I hadn't considered cultural victory - luck I missed it.

On some maps, cereal mills are better (meaning less risky) than sushi for time

You also get more food per resource from cereal but the resources aren't usually as common as seafood is on watery maps.

You also get more food per resource from cereal but the resources aren't usually as common as seafood is on watery maps.

If you like playing on the edge, you can get both CerealM and Sushi. Use Sushi to gorw and then swith to CerealM to stop the unwanted Sushi culture when it starts getting close to legendary. A competing corporation will push out the indigent corporation when it is founded. And its a time game... its not like you have lots of other things to do while waiting for the end than spam corp execs all over the place....