WELCOME MAT

The ultimate NES is here at last! With the largest amount of players, rivalled only by UKNESII with 15 on two maps, this NES will be well moderated with updates every two days without fail. The rules system is a combination of UKNESII, JNES, and other tweaks...

THE SEVENTEEN PLAYERS

England starts in Province 4.

Castile starts in Province 11.

Lisbon starts in Province 13.

Barcelona starts in Province 15.

Paris starts in Province 69.

Marseilles starts in Province 21.

Saxony starts in Province 62.

Lombardy starts in Province 65.

The Papacy starts in Province 24.

Venice starts in Province 27.

Poland starts in Province 57.

Hungary starts in Province 53.

Bulgaria starts in Province 51.

Greece starts in Province 31.

Stamboul starts in Province 49.

The Sultanate starts in Province 40.

Alexandria starts in Province 42.

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These are the official names of the 17 players to be used in diplomacy. Note - two players have a "The" in their title - The Papacy and The Sultanate.

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A NOTE ABOUT ORDERS

The map will be updated every 48 hours, OR if everyone has turned their orders in, whichever comes first. If you haven't turned your orders in by 48 hours, I'll move for you. If you're going on vacation, just send me a PM with pointers for running your nation so I don't mess things up too badly. :D

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THE RULES

Each turn you will receive money from your Provinces (these are land areas, water areas are called Seas. Provinces are ID'd with a number, Seas with a letter. Thanks to UK for this idea!) The amount of money you receive depends:

3 Ducats (the currency of the game) for every empty (non-developed) Province you own.

5 Ducats for every Province with a Town.

8 Ducats for every Province with a City.

-1 Ducat for every Army.

-1 Ducat for every Fleet.

In addition, you receive Ducats depending on your Luxury combination. There are six Luxuries (Wine, Silk, Fur, Gems, Pepper, Ivory) and your goal is to collect a set (more than 1 of each does you no good). For having just 1 kind you receive 1 Ducat a turn....

1 Kind - 1 Ducat

2 Kinds - 2 Ducats

3 Kinds - 3 Ducats

4 Kinds - 5 Ducats

5 Kinds - 8 Ducats

All 6 Kinds - 13 Ducats

Of course getting the top six is unlikely, since your fair share of the map is a mere four provinces, and you discover only 1 of the six in each Province you conquer. You'll need to trade. More on that later.

In the meantime, after I've taken your salary, added it to what you saved last turn, and deducted the upkeep (for armies/fleets) I post the map update with new map and new treasury.

Now you have 48 hours to talk, plot, chat, etc, with your fellow NESers. Before the deadline, PM me your orders.

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ORDERS

Orders should first of all tell me how much gold you have (I posted it in the map update). Now, tell me your expenses, and what you're saving for next turn.

There are several ways to spend money.

1. If you're paying off someone to keep quiet about something :D , or you're loaning them money, or you're buying a Luxury from them, for whatever reason, I need to see the deal in BOTH orders - "I'm selling him a spare Ivory for 12 Ducats" "I'm buying an Ivory from him and paying him 12 Ducats" Otherwise, NO DEAL :D So be careful!

2. You can build a Town in a Province for 5 Ducats.

3. You can upgrade the Town to a City for 10 Ducats (but you can't spend 15 Ducats and buy a City right away).

4. You can buy an Army or Fleet in a Province that has a Town or City in it. Armies cost 3 Ducats each, Fleets 5 Ducats each. Please STATE WHERE EACH UNIT IS STARTING. "I'm building 2 armies in Province 18 and a Fleet." The Fleet has to start in a Sea next to the Province, so you can only build Fleets in Coastal Towns or Cities obviously. If you have a choice they can start in either Sea. "I'm building a Fleet in 17 and it's starting in Sea F [or, "it's starting in Sea E."]"

NOTE: You CAN'T build a Town, and then an Army/Fleet in it the same turn. Must wait a turn ;)

So much for expenses! The rest is automatically banked for next turn.

Now, give me your moving orders - where are all those armies and fleets going (you CAN move armies and fleets built this turn).

An army can move 1 space on land, a fleet 1 space on sea. When they cooperate, however, things get a little complicated.

In addition to its one move, a fleet can also EMBARK as many armies as it likes from any ONE coastal Province next to one of the Seas it's in, as long as the total number of passengers is 4 or less. It can also DEPOSIT as many armies as it likes in any ONE Coastal province.

NOTE: In ADDITION to Embarking and Depositing, Fleets can also exchange armies AT NO COST if they are in adjacent seas.

NOTE: A fleet can carry an army indefinitely, if you want to. There's no need to deposit that turn.

Here are some examples, all of them are perfectly legal:

1. A fleet in F embarks 4 armies from 17, deposits them in 23, and moves to Sea E.

2. A fleet in F embarks 4 armies from 17, moves to Sea E, and deposits them in 15.

3. A fleet in F embarks 4 armies from 17 and moves to Sea G, still with the armies.

4. A fleet in F embarks 4 armies from 17, transfers 2 of them for free to a fleet in G, then the fleet in F moves to E, and deposits the 2 other armies in 15. Meanwhile the fleet in G embarks 2 armies from 44. Then all four armies in the fleet in G are deposited in 24.

5. 4 armies in 15 move to 40 by a chain of fleets in E, G, H, K, L, M. Now the E fleet has done Embarking and the M fleet has done Depositing - none of the other fleets have done any work, just transferring. Meanwhile 4 armies move from 42 to 17, going the other way - now both E and M are done with Embarking/Depositing. The fleet in E moves to D, the fleet in M moves to S. MEANWHILE, four armies embark on the G fleet from 45, the G fleet moves to F and deposits those armies in 22. Four armies embark on the H fleet from 44 and this stays put, deposits them in 25, and moves to G. As for the K fleet, four armies board it from 43, the fleet moves to I and deposits them in 30. Last of all, the L fleet moves to S, without offering to take on passengers although it COULD! :D

So, a fleet can do a lot if you think about it! :D Always use your fleets in ways the opponent will not expect...

Of course, armies that are carried are DONE for the turn and may not move either before or after the carry (they begin and end in coastal provinces). They MAY attack.

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RESULTS OF MOVES

If your armies stumble into an uninhabited Province, you discover a Luxury there and take it home. [Each map update shows the Luxuries each player owns].

[A bit more on Luxuries - you keep them, earning ducats for what sets you can get. You may exchange them, you may pay some off as tribute or as reparations for a war, you can auction some off to the highest bidder, whatever you do is up to you. HOWEVER - once you've sold a luxury, it's the other person's luxury now PERMANENTLY, until he decides to sell it himself. You can always buy it back, of course - if he decides to sell it to you.

You don't lose Luxuries when the Province is captured: Luxuries don't even appear on the map, they are a part of your Treasury. So, Luxuries can't be hurt as a source of income.

Be careful of giving one person too many Luxuries - money is a dangerous tool in this game, and making one player too powerful is never good - unless that player is you! :D Use your diplomatic wiles to get as many Luxuries as possible...]

Anyway, back to results - you collect the precious Luxury and the Province is now yours.

UNLESS! In this game, when two armies of two different nations go into the same Province, the winner is the player with the most Armies. If the same, the winner is determined randomly. The "loser" must retreat unfortunately, leaving the spoils to the victor :(

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Fleets of different nations can ALWAYS co-exist in the same Sea, unless they are at war, in which case they fight. Armies always fight - unless you have a Right of Passage agreement which I read in *BOTH* of your orders.

If two nations fight - but first, we have to talk about pacts.

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PACTS

Here are some pacts you can sign.

NAP - Non Aggression Pact, agrees, surprisingly enough, that you won't attack each other.

DPP - Defensive Protection Pact - if one of you is attacked, the other must help by declaring war and fighting the common enemy.

MPP - Mutual Protection Pact - any war your ally declares, you must declare also and help - and they must do the same for you. You help each other in offensive AND defensive wars.

DMZ - Demilitarization Zone - agrees that a Province or Sea will remain empty and not hold troops of either nation.

You can break a pact two ways - 1, by unsigning yourself from it, 2, by breaking it. IF you break it and the other person declares war on you, they get a +3 advantage over you in combat for the 1st turn, +2 for the second turn, and +1 for the third turn.

Now, back to

COMBAT

Land Combat is simple - each army involved rolls 2 dice. Also, the defender rolls two dice extra, to represent the militia of the Province.

An attacking army needs a "7" or less to hit, a defending army needs a "7" or less to hit, a City militia hits on a "6" or less, a Town militia on a "5" or less, and a Province militia on "4" or less.

[Each army and militia gets the +3+2+1 bonus if applicable, not just one. An army with a +3 bonus would hit on a 10 or less, a deadly fighting machine!]

Each hit removes an opponent - armies die before militia. If one side is heavily outnumbered they must retreat or all die. If orders are specifically given NOT to retreat (and it's a VERY good idea to do this when defending your capital, etc), that side stays and fights to the death.

A Sea battle is the same, except that armies on board ships don't fight, just ships. Combat lasts only 1 round, with a "8" or less to hit. Fleets with less or no armies die first. After that, a Fleet carrying armies proceeds on its way, and the loser of the battle must retreat or die as per normal, unless orders have been given to the contrary...

Cities that are captured are demoted to Towns, while Towns are burned to the ground. You may get some ducats as loot if you take a big or vital City/Town!

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For the purposes of diplomacy, this is 1190 AD. In other words, just before the Papacy started preaching the 3rd Crusade! An exciting time... Who knows what alliances will develop, who will get what spoils of war?

Also, each person's fair share of the map is 4 Provinces, BUT this leaves some spare land in Palestine, an incentive for a Crusdade, or for making the Sultanate more powerful? Who knows...

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I believe that's all, so let's start the game. There are 17 players, so the game will begin with 14 players or more.

You each start with 5 gold because of your Town.

Next map update you'll get Luxuries from your Town, and from any other Province you move into (obviously only 1 Province this time since you can only buy 1 army...)

Anyway, you each start with 5 gold. Good luck!

Ah, some things I forgot! Fleets can move from S to P and vice versa, with the permission of the owner of 34. They can move from I to G and vice versa with the permission of the owner of 25. However NO moving from Q to M because no Suez Canal yet! Movement from D to E can't be stopped.

The northern island of Corsica is impassable.

A Town is shown by a box with a slash. A City is a box with a circle inside. Armies and fleets are small dots.

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Timeline

1190 AD -

I'll play as King Richard the Lionhearted of the British.

Looking good, except colour those seas! I can't see where the land is!

Hope to see you in the UKNES3 I'm setting up(it's going to be 14 players on the JNES map, which is quite like this one).

Nemesis

I'd like to be Stamboul, but the area of 49 was already Muslim in 1190,but can I be Christian nevertheless?
If you need these Muslims I'll be Poland.

I'll play as The Pope of the Papacy

I agree about the sea's its abit confusing at first.
Also tell us when were all right to start

Rev,it will start when there are 14 players I think.

But are there enough NESsers at all for this number?

Actually, in 1190 the area of Greece to 34 was part of the [Christian] Byzantine Empire and the rest, where you are, was part of the Seijos of Rum - so it has to be Muslim. I'll mark you down as Poland - 3 players so far! And I'll change the seas straightaway...

Oh, about 17 players - well, there's UKnem, Anarchy, Warlord Matt, Kennelly, Revolutionary, Poto, Das, Julien, Toasty, Kwansn, Dexter, Bill, that's 12 right there... we may also attract some people who have never played the NES before... and if not, well, I'll play some neutral nations :D

Here it is!

I'll take the Saxons

I'll play as Greece

I'll be Poland

I'd be happy to join as Hungary.

I take it your capital is a City?

I'll take Egypt! Ya, a new NES I want to play in! lol

I'll take the French crown in Paris.
So much NES !! :D

Revolutionary: No, your capital is a Town. You get 5 gold to start with, not 8, right? ;)

Wow, already nine players have joined up!

Anarchy, you can't be Poland because Kennelly already snagged that one, so choose again please. :D Would you like to be The Sultanate? We really need a Sultan...

OK, so far we have a Britain, a Poland, a Papacy, a Saxony, a Greece, a Hungary, an Alexandria, and a Paris, and Anarchy who's going to choose something else...

The open seats are: Castile, Barcelona, Lisbon, Marseilles, Lombardy, Venice, Bulgaria, Stamboul, and The Sultanate.

Also, something to note: since this NES has SO many players, please start all your posts with an identifying FROM: TO: header. Like so:

From: Venice

To: Paris

I'll take Venice.

Bill

i`ll be the sultanate!

Terrific! Now if we could have 2 Spanish nations, and Anarchy's choice, and we'll be ready to start. [I can't believe how fast people are signing up for UKNESSIII and SUPERNES...]

[because it has been hyped up since the start of UKNES2..lol. More people flock to it knowing it is of good quality and long planned.]

can i start sending in orders yet?

I will play as bulgaria.

Yes, go ahead and send in orders. People will probably finish joining in the next day or so and then we can update. I already have 3 orders - those from UK, Demetrias, and Poto.... lemme check... OK, all your orders are good. :D

There are now just FOUR seats left: Stamboul, Castile, Barcelona, Lisbon. Grab 'em while they're hot! For some reason nobody wants to play Spain :confused:

Id like to join as Stamboul(wasnt that taken?) but i couldnt find where it said how much an army and a fleet costs

I wanted to take Stamboul cause of it's good position but I rather wanted to play a Christian nation,so Stamboul is free.

I've now sent in my first orders.

I wonder if you could move for the nations that dont have a leader so that I could take over a nation after the vacation!

OOC My orders are in!

The Holy Roman Papacy claims all lands in 22 23 25 and 26, 22 is I know a hot issue but the Church must be strong in order for us to convert and capture the Holy Land.
Any deals by a Christain nation with a "Muslim" one will be seen as a outcast nation and the people would be damned by God!

OOC I love this Pope stuff

Pope,

The Royal Venician Guard disputes your claim of territory 22. This is clearly Venician territory, and I ask you to reconsider your claim of a territory two areas away from your homeland, but adjecant to mine.

Venice

The Grand Egyptian Empire is laying claim to all north african provinces, including Alexandria, Carthag, and the West.

Dear Leader of Venice

22 I know is next to your homeland but I know the church is strong inm your land and you wouldnt begrudge the Pope. Of course you know that we would never comit war agnisnt a Christain nation so that we ask not demand could we have 22. We leave it in your hands.

Pope John Paul I

In answer:

KNAS, yes you can join as Stamboul, in fact you're welcome to it! We need all three Muslim nations to counterbalance the Pope and his allies :D

Armies are 3 ducats each, Fleets 5 each. So, you'll probably want to buy an army first!

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PS - By the way, Pope, you CAN excommunicate nations and leaders, etc. Of course, you cannot then trade with them, or be in alliance with them, all former alliances are broken. They may even decide to form their own church... or declare war on you. You're not invincible ;)

Glad to see some diplomacy starting already. I have orders from nine nations so far, and we can update soon.

Yes, I will move for Non-Player nations, and move well usually! :D Some of them will even interfere in diplomacy...

FROM MARSEILLES

I'm afraid 22 must be MINE and mine alone. 70, 68, and 22 are the only lands I claim, but any nation which seizes them will face consequences. I need these lands for my own protection.

[We desperately need a Marseilles player, he's totally surrounded by player nations...]

Dexter: you can only claim a province by marching armies into it, so 30 is yours but not 33 [yet...]

Because of the peaceful nature of the Holy Roman Church we have decided to give up claim of 22. Once we have all have stable lands I will call on the true catholic lands to fight the good fight and the 3rd crusdae will be decleared.

This is the 30-hour mark, as of now [I'll update Thursday morning or earlier]. I need orders from Toasty of Hungary, Trader/Warrior of the Sultanate, and KNAS of Stamboul. In addition, anyone who wants to join can do so within the next 30 hrs, especially AnarchyRulz who has a spot saved for him since he asked for Poland when it was already taken.

Quote
There are now just FOUR seats left: Stamboul, Castile, Barcelona, Lisbon. Grab 'em while they're hot!

/quote

ill take Stamboul-49 (hope i didnt miss something and it aint taken)... (edit) OOPS

EDIT: nevermind, just noticed that KNAS took it, guiss ill take one of the spanish ones then..... Barcelona (tell me that one aint taken :) )

i read the rules but not sure of this, what happens when one army each comes into a neutral territory?
(it say if two nations walk in the one with more gets to walk in the other retreats, what if both walk in with one army as will happen a bunch in the first few turns?)

It's taken by .:KNAS:.

i think the only 2 nations left are Castile and Lisbon 11 and 13

both of em are my neighbors, so if it aint too much trouble for whoever takes em, could you PM me when you sign up, i wanna discuss the territory issues we gonna have :)

To: All Muslim Nations
From: Stamboul
We suggest that all faithful Muslim nations should sign a MPP and ROP, so we can fend against any Christian menace.

There gonna be a update tonight?

And while you are updating, please post who controls wich nations.... Thank You

There will be one tomorrow morning as promised. Some people still haven't submitted orders, so I'll move for them. You'll find out what luxuries are in each province as well now. I hope I can keep this NES running as well as playing in the new UKNESIII, and I will if enough people keep playing! :D

This message is only valid if Egypt is a muslim nation, which I think it is....

To Islamic nations,

I agree full-hardetly on the Muslim Pact.

Yes, Egypt, Stamboul, and the Sultanate are the Muslim nations, all the other ones are Catholic.

to islamic nations
i accept

The update is coming momentarily.

CASTILE rejects BARCELONA's offer of MPP.

I only got orders from 8 people of 17...

Lowercase Roman numerals represent luxuries of the 6 kinds. So far everyone stored 2 gold, gets 1 for luxury, eight for provinces, -1 for army makes: each person has 10 gold to spend.

If we can't get more orders than I will scrap the NES unfortunately, since I am already in 2 others...

The Pope of the most Catholic Church hearby claims 44 in addition to the formaly claimed lands. Prehaps there will be a speck of light on the dark land across the sea.

ooc: I have luxury VI(6), can i trade it to more then 1 player?

No, either keep it or trade it to 1 player. But there's no point in switching with someone else, unless there's another 6 close by you think you can capture, to give you a set of 2. Or you can sell your luxury if you want, but I doubt people are going to be spending on anything but military right now.

i havent played a game like this yet, so i dont want to take something for granted and then find out i assumed wrong:(

/quote
UNLESS! In this game, when two armies of two different nations go into the same Province, the winner is the player with the most Armies. If the same, the winner is determined randomly. The "loser" must retreat unfortunately, leaving the spoils to the victor
/end quote
the "looser" retreats to where? back to where he came from? to a place of the players choosing (should i provide instructions for the posibility?)? to a place of the "winner"s choise?

/rules quote
You can break a pact two ways - 1, by unsigning yourself from it, 2, by breaking it. IF you break it and the other person declares war on you, they get a +3 advantage over you in combat for the 1st turn, +2 for the second turn, and +1 for the third turn.
/end quote

'If you BREAK it...' is that the break that was option 2(meaning the sneaky one), or does Unsigning your self from a pact give the other guy the bonus too?

To make things easier for people, and above all me, i decided to list 'who`s who'. If i made a mistake, say so and ill edit it.

Nations of the World

Barcelona: RoddyVR
Britain: uknemesis
Poland: Kennelly
Papacy: Revolutionary
Saxons: Poto
Greece: Dexter
Hungary: Toasty
Egypt: Jason The King
French: Juliennew
Venice: Bill_in_PDX
Sultanate: trader/warrior
Bulgaria: Demetrias
Stamboul: .:KNAS:. (damn, my name really is a ***** to type)

Neutral or availible nations:

Castile
Lisbon
Marseilles
Lombardy

Hope i got it all right :)

To Rome
From Egyptian Empire

I am sorry, friend, 44 is already taken. That land rightfully belongs to the Egyptian empire, an I have already claimed all North African Lands. If any legionsa re present in any N African land, I will personally declare war.

:confused:
.:KNAS:. i know i can be a bit anoying, asking all these 'minor detail' questions, but you left me out all together :(

Barcelona: RoddyVR

To: Egypt
From: Stamboul
We will aid you in any conflict with the Catholic scum.

Long live the Prophet Mohammed

Its not You that is annoying, it is I that is stupid.

From The Pope
To Egypt

44 will be mine in less than 2 turns. Also the Prophet Muhammed is a big hairy girl who wears his mum's knickers.(sorry to any muslims reading the thread).

Jesus is a long haired fairy that couldnt lay any chicks, so he just made up that sex is bad...

All above is as usual in caracter

Rev: I think the Pope would be a bit more formal, probably just condemning them as heretics and the spawn of Satan...

Nemesis

To the world: Any fleets seen in A or B will be sunk. That is the order to my fleets, and always will be, unless it is an ally who has my permission.

This is for Britain's safety, and we will be flexible about it with our allies, as I said so long as they give us prior notice.

To France and the Saxons:

I offer you both a MPP.

Richard

To: Pope
From Egypt

I will refraim from tanatlizing your religion, as the Koran teaches to tolerate other religions, as does the Bible. Also, Jesus was a holy man in deed, along with Muhammad and Abraham.

But, that does not change the situation at hand. As you see, 44 will be in the middle of my empire in Africa, and must be Egyptian for obvious reasons. If you do claim it, I will have to use military force.

To all nations in the world
From: Egupt

I require any and all help to deminish this warmonger Rome. Please, let us not let this Religious Fanatical Ceasar throw the world off balance.

Only breaking a pact the sneaky way gives the other guy the bonus.

Hm. We're already seeing some Crusading tension. But let's keep it PG, okay? :lol:

From the Pope
To Islamic countys

You are all condemmed to hell unless the holy land is given up to the nearest catholic nation. I will not suffer the insults to Jesus from a crowd of heretics who are all truly the spawn of Satan

I didnt find anything about it in the rules, but if i have a town in a province, i can build armies and fleets there, right?

ooc: you ARE aware that 'the holy land' is The Sultanate`s capital, right?

ooc oh yea i know they would never agree so decided to start the crusdes to kick start the NES

ooc: so who are you allied with?

Armies and Fleets can only be built in towns or cities. Your capital is a town.

Since my capital is not on a coast, it doesnt build ships, does it?

what if my capitol (the only town i have right now) gets conquered? would that mean i cant build any more army/fleets? ever?

Nope, you'll need to build a town or city on the coast. Or, you can try and get Greece, Egypt, or Sultanate to carry your in their boats.

Roddy, any town or city can build armies, any town or city on the coast can build armies, and can also build fleets. Building a town costs 5 gold and the town produces 5 gold a turn, upgrading the town to a city costs 10 gold and the city produces 8 gold a turn. Your capital is a town. Those of you like Stamboul that are inland can only build armies, until you spend money to build a coastal town or city. Other people can build both armies and fleets.

Yet again i am going away, this time it will just be over the weekend though. I am leaving tomorrow.

to:stamboul and egypt
from:the sultanate
if you promise you will protect me as if i were a part of your country, i will not expand any more so that you can take the rest of the free provinces in the area.

We will protect you. But 48 is yours. I will not take it no matter what. As to 39, you should take it.

To:Pope
From:Poland

The Polish people will support you in your conflict with the Muslims.

To:Saxony+Venice
From:Poland

I offer you MPPs so we can build a united front if the Muslims take Bulgaria and Greece.

I will support you, Sultanet, but am wondering why you don't wish to keep expanding. It is better to have three equal nations then two big ones and one small one.

From Egypt

To: Poland
From: Egypt

I don't understand why you would back the Pope up once they have declared war for the reason they did. It does not make sense.

because then it would be easier for me to protect my capital(and i like being small natinons).:)

To Hungary and Greece.
From Bulgaria

i propose the balkan alliance to keep the Muslims from further expanding into the Balkans and eventually to throw them from the lands they have already taken. This will be a MPP. Also i ask for the partioning of the lands around our two countries as to not interfere in the Growth of our nations. i would like 36 to go to me and 29 to the Greeks. Hungary has more choices and would show their good will and brotherhood by look to the lands further north to expand into as they have quit a lot of room to expand up there.

To: Bulgaria
From: Stamboul
Should I interpret this as a declaration of war? Stamboul would like peace with Bulgaria, but if you so desperately seek war, it will be on your doorstep sooner then you think.

To Stamboul
From Bulgaria
Look apon the wide world. Nothing is final yet. We are equals now so war is not an option ethier of us can even think of. No it is a plea for aid when one sees ones neighbor able to become the strongest nation and no way for you to stop it. It worries the whole world when Constaninople falls. War may not need to come at all for we do not know what the future holds but it would be wise for me to erect defenses now instead of later. And this is just one kind of defense.

To: Bulgaria
From: Stamboul
Then we suggest that territories 33 and 34 be made a DMZ. Same applies for sea S and sea P.

Anyone who attacks Stamboul attack's Egypt.

To All Christian Nations
From The Pope

We should all band together to stop Muslims from advancing into Bulgaria and Greece. A giant MMP between all nations who believe that we should not declare war but protect us from the Muslim threat. Please evict all Muslims from your land and them to their own lands. If we see that Christians are banned from going to the holy land than we should I believe declare war. Its up to you….

King Richard stared at the announcement in shock.

"Has the world gone mad?" He said finally.

"I believe so." His son, the Black Prince answered(I know Richard didn't have a son, but I need an heir and I don't want it to be John lol). "But I believe it is because foolish and arrogant men have ambitions."

"I know. The Pope is acting foolishly, but he is wiser than most think. His actions will have the Christians banished from the Holy Land, and then he can stir Europe into Crusade fever once more."

"Isn't that a good thing?" Edward, the Black Prince, had never been on a Crusade, and still thought that fighting "heretics" was to do God's work.

"I've been on one before, fighting a Saracen called Saladin. Let's just say I defeated him in battle, but in the overall scheme of things, he defeated me. The Holy Land is too far away to get new supplies quickly, and most men just want to go home. Jerusalem is a nice place, and of course a holy place, but it isn't worth our blood. I believe that just because it was where Christ died, it doesn't make it some heavenly place. It's far from it, it was more like hell."

"So the Pope wants another Crusade, and you don't?"

"Of course I don't. And most people who can see sense don't want another one. God knows that the last Crusade was a horrific tragedy. Yes we did well, but not well enough. And when I returned, I found John driving Britain into the ground."

"And you were almost taken prisoner."

"Yes, that too. All I can say is at least John is no longer alive should I be forced to march once more. But I hope I don't, and I don't even know if I will should the Pope demand it. He doesn't really know what God wants if you ask me. I believe God doesn't want to see lots of people dead, but to see everyone live peacefully."

"You sound like our Protestants father. The ones who say we shouldn't listen to the Pope, that he only believes in his own wealth."

"I know he does. I've had spies check on him many a time. You don't want to know just how corrupt our Church really is."

"So what will you do about it, should he call another Crusade?"

"I don't know son, I really don't know."

**************************************************

TO THE WORLD

Britain declares her intentions to remain peaceful with you all. King Richard has seen to much of war to enjoy it, and wishes there not to be another Crusade. However, if forced to, then he will answer the call of his God.

To Britain
From The Pope

My spy's in your staff have reported to me that your family have numerous protestant connections. In exchange for calming down tension with the Muslims nations I expect for at least the heads of 20 Protestant heretics.
Also your son must be sent to the Vatican for a year to train as a man of the cloth and eventually a new position will be made in the church. Your son and every other first born of the English crown will be linked to the Catholic Church.
If you are so tired of war as you tell your son than let him become peaceful as you are so that when you travel to heaven the black prince will become a peaceful and loving king not a glorified warlord.
The choice is yours…

*TOP PRIORITY MESSAGE*

***FOR THE POPE'S EYES ONLY***

**TOP SECRET**

Your Grace,

I think you will find that both my son and myself are devoted Catholics.

But I will not have my son schooled as a priest. It would mean that he would be too war hating.

I am tired of war, but of that I am glad, for should we grow too fond of war, then God will abandon us to our bloodlust.

I need my son to be as great a soldier as he is, to protect my kingdom should others try to oust him from the throne.

As I said earlier, all of my family are good Catholics. But I will not condemn Protestants in my land to death, for I believe that if they feel that they don't need you to talk to God for them, but that He listens to the humble peasants too, then good for them.

I tolerate all religions in my nation, and while there are very few Muslims in my country, they will be allowed to stay whatever you demand.

For I am afraid to tell you that most people believe that God appoints Kings, and so they will listen to me in MY kingdom, and not you.

Finally, I am wondering why you would want a peaceful King of England, seeing as you want us all to go on Crusades all the time.

And remember, I was the one who made the last Crusade a success, continuing on after others had gone home. So remember that you are in my debt...

Richard

/ooc
to: The Troquelet (and anyone who want to offer advice)
From: Barcelona

ALL of my neighbors currently dont have rullers, meaning you are running all of em. Not that I think you incapable of running 3 countries and moderating :goodjob:, but my nature (and play style) demands that i hold 'closed' talks with each of my neighbors to decide on the best course of action, which as you might imagine is imposible unless you have a multiple personality disorder (which i hope you dont :)). Should i hold sending in my orders till the deadline so that we know for sure no one has signed up for any of the 'vacant' nations, so that you can do their orders before knowing mine? or am i being overly causious/paranoid? :confused:
if you are gonna run all 3 of em for a while then i will most likely have to ignore my instincs and propose to Castile, Lisbon and Mersailes that all we decide who is taking which teritory next turn and end up with 3 territories (counting the capitol) each.
but, considering an average of 4.1 territories per nation in the world, i find the prospect of having only 3 territories depressing. :(

So, take some of Morocco! :D

Lisbon claims 12, 13, 14, 46.

Castile claims 10, 11, 18, 19.

Egypt has now changed her decision of claim to North Africa, as the population is completely dimished. Egypt claims, now, 43,32, and 50.

good idia about Morocco! never even crossed my mind to build ships. Well if its a 'Claim for all' then

Barcelona Claims
15, 20, 16 and 45

To all nations: No Ships are to enter E. My sea and you cant have it! :)

EDIT:

To Castile

started sending this in a PM to keep Marseilles from knowing but realized that you are both. if you want you can consider this secret from Marseiles! :rotfl: :)

due to logistical problems, i cant realy take everything i claimed next turn (army needs to move 2 for that, or move - embark - disembark) so i ask Castile for a favor. you take 16, i take 18. (then if you want we can trade em later)

to:the world
from:the sultanate
i will not let any ships enter the M sea, exept egypt and stamboul.i am wery sorry, but its the only way i can be sure no one will start a stupid crusade of some kind.(i forgot to say that in my orders troqelet)

does the weekend interupt the flow of turns? is turn 2 due at 8am (easter US time) tommorow (1 was 8am yesterday) or is it different cause of the weekend?

Nope, you can expect another one tomorrow.

To: Castile (the Troquelet since no one signed up for it)
From: Barcelona

Do you accept my plea to exchange claim 16 for 18 (and the exchange of them back, as provinces, the next turn if you want)
my orders depend on your answer, will be watching vigilantly for a reply

I deeply apologise for not posting here in a while!! I shall get orders in for the next update.
Sorry

well its 8:30 my time. troquelet i NEED to 'talk' to you, then send my orders before you update. gonna play my tournament Civ3 game for now, will check if you online at the end of every turn. hope you dont sleep in too late :)
'weekend wont affect the update' my butt (jk) :)

Originally posted by Demetrias
To Hungary and Greece.
From Bulgaria

i propose the balkan alliance to keep the Muslims from further expanding into the Balkans and eventually to throw them from the lands they have already taken. This will be a MPP. Also i ask for the partioning of the lands around our two countries as to not interfere in the Growth of our nations. i would like 36 to go to me and 29 to the Greeks. Hungary has more choices and would show their good will and brotherhood by look to the lands further north to expand into as they have quit a lot of room to expand up there.

To: Bulgaria
From: Greece
I second a Balkans Alliance but only on this condition:
Only if Bulgaria will trade Province 33 for Province 29 (Which I've claimed this turn)
If we can conduct this trade then Greece will more than happily sign-up to an alliance.

Ah! I slept in :( An update will proceed in 1 hour exactly. Yes, Castile accepts the trade.


I have 9 orders, I don't think any more are coming, so the update is in 1 hr as said.

just sent orders.

thanks Castile! (proly would have given you a gold for accepting the trade if you'd asked, but no time :))

SECOND UPDATE!

PAPACY has 16 gold to spend!

ENGLAND has 16 gold to spend!

EGYPT has 10 gold to spend!

Knas will be gone for a while, but I have instructions from him, so:

STAMBOUL has 13 gold to spend!

POLAND has 17 gold to spend!

BULGARIA has 15 gold to spend!

THE SULTANATE has 10 gold to spend!

GREECE has 14 gold to spend!

Ok, now we come to the non-player nations [BESIDES Barcelona, he said to wait to process his orders till after, for some reason.]

PARIS has 16 gold to spend! and anyone who wants to join can right now.

MARSEILLES has 13 gold to spend! and anyone who wants to join can right now.

VENICE and HUNGARY skirmished over 28, and Venice won.

VENICE has 13 gold to spend! and anyone who wants to join can right now.


HUNGARY has 10 gold to spend! and anyone who wants to join can right now.


LOMBARDY has 17 gold to spend! and anyone who wants to join can right now.

SAXONY has 18 gold to spend! and anyone who wants to join can right now.

CASTILE has broken her promise to Barcelona. Remember this was an age where rulers could never be trusted. Barcelona and Castile skirmished over 18 and Castile won.

CASTILE has 16 gold to spend! and anyone who wants to join can right now.

--------------

FIRST WAR OF THE GAME! Barcelona declared war on Lisbon. Two major battles occured:

THE BATTLE OF GIBRALTAR: Two Barcelona armies attacked 1 Lisbon army defending the province, easily capturing it with no losses.

Losses: 1 Lisbon army.

THE BATTLE OF LISBON: One Barcelona army attacked the capital, Lisbon, defended by 1 Lisbon army waiting to go to sea next turn. The defending army easily drove back the Barcelona attackers.

Losses: 1 Barcelona army.

So far, losses have been equal, but who knows what the future may bring?

Oh, I forgot! Barcelona has 12 gold to spend, Lisbon has 10 gold to spend.

to:lombardy
from:the sultanate
if you give me i luxuries then i`ll give you ii luxuries.

Sultan you get gold for having SETS of luxuries. That is, not 4 of a kind, but 4 different luxuries. Extras of luxuries don't count for anything. For example, you have 2 luxuries, I and II. If you discovered a II, you'd still only have 2 luxuries, I and II. If you discovered a IV, you'd have 3 luxuries, I, II, IV.

So, your trade would lower you from 2 luxuries - I, II, to 1 luxury - II, even though you have 2 of that luxury.

Sorry if I'm not clear in the explanation... It's just like CIV3, extras of a luxury don't help you.

TO FRANCE AND SAXONY

Once more I repeat my offer of a MPP between our nations.

Richard

Saxony agrees to MPP with Britain.

Oh, Paris is non-player too... Paris agrees as well.

Eh? Juliennew is Paris and Poto is Saxony...

Or so I thought.

Anyway, if not, good to be allies!

Nemesis

You're right, never mind lol... I just had to move for them this turn, so...

Have all the other people left?I remember people joined as Venice,Paris,Saxony etc.Come on folks it's not that hard to send a few orders!

From:Poland

I also offered MPPs to Venice and Saxony,how do they react.

Only 9 people sent in orders last time, and 7 or 8 this time. If more people don't join, I may have to close the NES :( because it's already hard work being Byzantium in UKNES3 and doing other stuff for music and sumerwork, etc.. It takes about 1.5 hours to finish all 17 orders..

lol, 10 mins to do the UKNES3.

UKNES2 took the same amount of time before America was introduced(then took about 15 mins). UKNES took ages though!

Anyway, it always takes longer if there is a battle I find...

And it's easier earlier in the game.

Good luck!

Nemesis

Well, for those of you who haven't submitted orders yet, it helps a LOT if you put down how much gold is left over! Because otherwise I have to figure it out myself..

troq. i have a question. Lisbon left an army in the capitol instead of taking it to 46 in africa like i had thought he would. Why? was that a choise (ie incase i attack, as i did) or is
build ship and army - use new ship to transport new army to other land - claim new land
not a valid set of orders? (since i notice the papacy didnt go to africa either)

i need to know if i can build ship+army to take 45 this turn or if that requires 2 turns.

/quote rules
UNLESS! In this game, when two armies of two different nations go into the same Province, the winner is the player with the most Armies. If the same, the winner is determined randomly. The "loser" must retreat unfortunately, leaving the spoils to the victor
/end quote

so my (Barcelona) army that went to 18 got kicked by Castile the Decietful and should have retreated. now what does retreat MEAN? as i asked before. should i have that army somewhere in my territory or is it dead? if its dead then how come that aint called a WAR?

Sorry been busy recently . . . I am still in this game

Sorry, typo. In a skirmish the loser DIES. That's why Hungary lost his army going to 28 and you lost yours going to 18.

Skirmishing doesn't cause a war, unless you actually declare war. It's just an incentive to be more diplomatic, so that you don't waste armies going to the same province.

When one side outnumbers the other, YES the loser side RETREATS and is NOT killed, unless they cannot retreat [the province they started from was captured or something like that].

Yes, Lisbon could have sent the army to Africa, but he didn't - he actually didn't trust Castile, not you!

Yes, you can use armies and fleets built this turn to transport.

[PS - Yes, I did do the neutral nation orders before yours... you just got unlucky. Also, it's not usually a good idea to attack a province with just 1 army - since you'll be fighting an army and a militia, 1 to 2, not good odds :D ]

Originally posted by Poto
Sorry been busy recently . . . I am still in this game

Do you accept Britain's MPP, Saxony?

Thanks

Richard

Troq I sent an addition to my orders but I’m not sure if it got threw
gives me a OK if you got the addition

I got an order about building 2 towns, but that's all...

ok ill tell you here

I got my sums wrong so could you bulid a town in 25 as well
should only be 1 gold left

Sure.

TO: Britain
From:Saxony

I would be happy to sign a MPP with you at this time.
I am sorry for being away. I have been very busy at work recently.

Thank you friend.

Richard

To:Saxony
From:Greece

I also offered you a MPP.But we can sign a DPP or at least a NAP as well.

Mohammed came to me in a dream and spoke to me. 'Build a great building in a city of two oceans to pay homage to the one and all powerful god' So a great mosque will be built in Istanbul, it will attract faithful Moslems from all over the world.

Hey Troq I hear that you might be starting a new smaller NES....
Can I be put on the Shortlist if it happens as I am around often...
still keep this going for a while yet

Ya, ME TOO ME TOO! lol

All right. It will only have 6-10 players to keep it MANAGEABLE lol.

bite off a bit more then you can chew with this one? :goodjob:

my warmongering in this game is gonna get me wiped [phaser] and then I can help with the moderation if you want. :)

Troquelet, why did you ever cancel the ARTNES? I loved that one, it was probably one of the most atmospheric NESs around.

Anyway, I'd suggest a modern NES on the UKNES3 map(10 players).

I had an idea for one with air squadrons in, but I wasn't sure how to implement them. I'd had the idea that they must be based in a city, airport or airfield(a small improvement that was separate to all other improvements, cost 5 gold and just allowed you to base planes in that province), and had a range of 2(so they could cross the English Channel etc). Also they could board fleets just like armies could, and could actually board alongside them.

But I wasn't sure how to make them effective, or how to make them part of the land and sea combat.

Anyway, it's up to you. Good luck!

Nemesis

Yeah, I may dredge the ARTNES map up again. The problem with it though was not enough players, and fleets had a minimal impact. There was no reason to use fleets as the whole map was one blob of land.. even invading was shorter overland than by sea.

But I do like the time period. It's good for some ideas I've been tossing around. How does this sound? Is it playable?

"2.2 THE ROYAL FAMILY

The rules concerning the Royal Family of your nation are separate from the map, but have a big impact on it. At any point in the game, you will have 4 Royals: The King, the Queen, the Prince, and the Princess [and every other nation will have the same]. The King and Queen rule the nation, and have a direct effect on it. Meanwhile the Prince, who will inherit the King’s position, is looking for a Princess [or future Queen] to marry. Incest is positively forbidden, so the Princess must be a foreign one. If you don’t find a match by yourself, you are randomly assigned one of the leftovers, so every Prince gets a Princess. Unfortunately, yours may not be exactly state-of-the-art. [If a Kingdom is destroyed, leaving a spare Prince, he gets a randomly generated American Princess In Exile. :lol: ]

Each turn, the King and Queen die, the Prince and Princess graduate [the Princess, that is the foreign one you married - YOUR princess has married some foreign Prince], and breed a new set of Prince and Princess. So when you refer to “Libya’s Queen” you mean the Queen for that turn.

Each noble, whether King, Queen, etc. gets a number from 1 to 6. For Kings and Princes this is BRAVERY, for Queens and Princesses it is, ahem, FERTILITY. Yes, this is quite sexist. However, look at the times. Henry VIII and Louis II both would do anything to get a son [though history seems to think the fault was on their side...]. So, while I personally may not agree with the morals governing how to choose a Princess, they will affect your choice in the game, for sure.

Now, these numbers have an effect on the game, which makes matchmaking VERY important.

1 - Each turn, from your King and your Queen, whichever is the lower number is squared and added to your income. [So, I have a Prince of 4, I marry him to a Princess of 3. Next turn when they are crowned, I add 9 gold to my income.]

2 - If a battle is fought, your King’s Bravery number is added as a bonus to each roll you make, attacking or defending.

3 - When the new Prince and Princess are born, each of their numbers is determined by a roll of 1 or more dice, and the highest number rolled is chosen. The number of dice is the Queen’s Fertility number. [Example: I have a Queen of 3. For the Prince I roll 5, 2, 2. For the Princess I roll 3, 2, 1. I have a 5 Prince and a 3 Princess.]

In the real world at this time, Princesses came with a dowry. But, in the game, you’ll often find that to have a 5 or 6 Princess is a key bargaining tool. In exchange for her hand you can probably demand gold, or sometimes even a province, or a key agreement, or the promise of a future Princess’ hand in return.

Remember, at the beginning of each turn there is a coronation, a new breeding, and at the end of each turn, marriages take place, the old rulers die, and the new ones rule next turn.

If you don’t get a match, through bad diplomacy or whatever it may be, the remaining Princes are randomly matched up with the remaining Princesses, as stated before. "

When you add gold to your income because of your King or Queen, it only lasts one turn, while that King or Queen rules. Next turn, you get a different bonus from a different King or Queen.

wow, that is definetly different. lol

I like the idea of the rulers playing a bigger part, but that scares me lol!

It's a bit too complicated, and I can't see the point to be honest.

I'd prefer a system where each nation begins with three leaders(a King, a Prince and a Duke), and each adds to any attack or defence that they are part of(the King adds 3, the Prince adds 2 and the Duke adds 1). They are moveable pieces, and move from province to province, and have their own elite bodyguards(11 or under to kill for the King, 10 or under to kill for the Prince, and 9 or under to kill for the Duke).

If your leader's regiment is destroyed, the leader is captured, and can be moved by the nation that captured him. He can't help them in fights, but tries to stir up rebellions to try and get free. When he reaches their capital, he is no longer a threat, and is imprisoned, where he can be exchanged with his home nation or executed.

Anyway, this idea needs a bit of refinement, but I think it would be simpler...

Nemesis

How about this? Instead of complicated Royals, each nation, each turn, gets a dice-determined number from 1-6. That number is added to battles for leadership, and also to income. If you arrange a royal marriage, instead of your number added to your income, the SUM of the two numbers for the 2 nations is added. Sounds simpler. :D

No, I don't like the randomness of that. I believe you should be able to make your own luck as much as possible, using skill to beat others.

That's why there is little randomness in the UKNES3 system.

Anyway, I'm sure it'll be great whatever you come up with.

Nemesis

WOW, what happened to THIS game.

Iknow i was gonna get squashed very quickly. and i am part of the reason Troq dont have too much time to do the update (it was supposed to be this morning right?) becuase i been attacking him verbaly in UKNES3, BUT to discuss a new game here seems like a death sentence to this one.

is this one dead already??? come on, i wanted to see if i could take out Lisbon, before Castile finished me off.

But this had potential though...

But what good does a queen or Princess with a high rating do for your nation? I couldnt figure it out...

a good queen gives you better chance at better prince for next turn and better princess to trade away next turn

a good pricess is a good bargaining chip because its someone elses future good queen

Now almost a whole page Out of Character!The Troquelet,is this one already dead?
Anyway,if so and you make a new smaller NES please let me in!

Roddy, trust me it has nothing to do with UKNES3! :D The game is different from real life, it's just roleplaying. I have to act the arrogant/self-serving Barborossa and you have to act like a member of SAP who hates PBJ. :lol:

oh, i would never doubt it. :D
at lease not seriously or for any notacible amount of time :p
i expect getting squashed, because i would do it if i was castile (as you know i proposed the same thing on turn one to castile to take out lisbon) and i have no probs getting squashed :). my attack failed AND i trusted an agreement that (again, very reasonably) was a ruse. Ihad expected my army in 18 to retreat home if castile backstabed me, but oh well.

Hoo boy, now with the current situation in UKNES3 I have NO time! [If you haven't already, go read it. Best UKNES yet. Of course, I haven't played one where I'm the victim, so it'll be a novel experience]

Troquelet: It couldn't happen to a nicer person than Barbarossa :p

Anyway, I think it's prolly the best UKNES yet as well, because where you can't bank more than 10 gold it makes people try to take as many provinces as possible, and actually having winning victory conditions allows you to have an actual target!

Oh, and please make that new NES soon lol, the UKNES3 is about the only game NES still running(I think) and I can't play cause I'm the moderator! :cry: :p

Seriously though, I've none to play anymore :(

Someone start one soon please!!!!!

Nemesis

I now know the trechury of running an NES. LOL. You wont see one from me for a LONG time. lol. How do you do it, mods?

lol, I actually shouldn't complain that much.

The last two UKNESs(2 and 3, not Beacon of Hope lol!) were/are easy to manage, and to be honest when it gets exciting(like tonight) then I enjoy moderating.

It's just when it's dull and boring banking races like the end of the UKNES2 that bores me to death(which is why there are none in UKNES3).

Anyway, playing is an experience as you must decide your fate etc, but moderating can still be okay due to the story that the NES is creating.

Nemesis

I always enjoy moderating. It's just that my NESes are never that good ;) or as good as UK's or Das' anyway judging by views... and I liked the idea in [was it UKNES2 I think?] Where the mod would add some headlines or stories helping the roleplaying bit along.

Mine are never to good, either Troq. I didn't think this NES would be good for me because I don't know half of the people, as I am younger. I am, however, studying and know MUCH, MUCH more the my comrades, as I love history!Thats one of the reasons why I enjoy NES's so much.

lol, I think you have to like history to enjoy NESs.

Troquelet: Your NESs are nearly always great, but you don't hound people enough for orders(AMNES and ARTNES) or have little bits that are a bit confusing(like that Royal Family idea, and the resources that you find then go back to your capital if you lose the province in this one).

The UKNES3, in it's A Beacon of Hope form would never have survived due to overcomplicated rules. That's why the new UKNES3 is simple, and so works.

Not to criticise, but to try and help, you have great ideas, but sometimes overcomplicate putting them into the game like I did with BoH. If you can find ways to implement them(like I still managed to get happiness into the UKNES3, but in a simpler form), then it would be easier on my brain :)

Anyway, I've personally loved all of your NESs Troquelet, and yours Jason, but I think the reason that the UKNESs do well is due to the fact that people get into character perfectly(especially you Troq.!) and this can create an interesting game. Once the first UKNES was a hit, then the others seem to do well no matter what, refusing to die!

Oh, back to the topic lol.

How about trying to create a scenario driven NES with provinces, like Toasty's NESs but with the ARTNES/UKNES/SUPERNES interface?

I tried it, but I couldn't find a way to implement aircraft in a WW2 NES and also I couldn't figure out how to reflect the individuality of each country.

Good luck whatever you choose!

Nemesis

PS: Jason, I think your NES died simply due to saturation of the forum with new NESs, unlike the ARTNES of Troq.'s which died cause he talked too much about the next version of it(like he's doing here!) :) :(

Nemesis

lol, i definetly agree. JNES was doing strong, but was the (for all those who are my age: The "Dreamcast" of the Next Gen systems! lol). It was just an offspring of UKNES2, in which i loved so much (good work to ALL players! and especially Nem). I just wish I would have played the first. I remember I signed up for it at first, but quited because I feared it would be to hard to handle. Shows how much I knew! You remember, Nem? I also wish I joined Artnes, I dont think I even looked at it! I am trying to brew up another NES, but fear of anotehr SuperNES and Uknes suprising me, at the same time!lol. I think I woudl have survived a little longer if BOTH HADNT ARRIVED AT SAME TIME! lol. Also, I am wanting another SIMPLE nes (not literally the NES simple nes), but one like UKNES2, so that I can go to other NES's as well. It was hell for me to try and do both Super and UKNES2 at the same time, plus my JNES! Anyways, the new JNES2 should be up when UKNES3 hits about the 30 page mark (:)). I will start the JNES2, and hopefully make it much simpler and a different map. Perhaps even going back to the old, world map. Whoa, thats a new idea! lol.

I know, my NESes overlap too much. I'm always having too many ideas lol, always planning the next one. Well, you aren't innocent there either are you UK? ;) advertising the next UKNES in the old UKNES thread?

lol Troquelet, I only talk about a new UKNES when the old one seems to be dying, or I find it boring(like the banking races the UKNES2 had degenerated into).

I know I am always trying to improve the NES concept(having created the first ever Never Ending Story on here, it's kinda like a parental thing :p ), but currently I am very happy with the UKNES3 - it makes war hard, but a well planned offensive can work well.

I'm trying to think of anything that could improve the UKNES3 while keeping it simple for the UKNES4(yes, I said it, you can all celebrate knowing another one will come :p , but I've mentioned it before and I've said that it will only happen once someone wins the UKNES3). Aircraft are a possibility, but that's about it I feel for now.

But Jason is right, the map is the new thing to begin changing. The JNES map had it changed slightly, and this worked well I thought, except that the nations were too bunched at the bottom which allowed me to easily expand to the north. Also, it had too few nations for such a big map I think.

I think SKILORD's NES where he will use that huge world map might work, but I fear he may be overrun by the amount of work from that and the lunar map etc.

So we come to the ARTNES map, which I thought was excellent - not too much naval combat, it concentrated on the land action. Then there was the American UKNES2 map which I feel was a bit of a disaster, and not just due to the screwed up bitmap.

Where do we go from here? I think we might just see the emergence of ones like the Modern NES, set in a random map game(but slightly clearer and bigger(easier to see)), or ones which concentrate on smaller nations like the ARTNES did. It all depends whether you want the large scale combat of the JNES, the medium to small scale combat of the UKNES2/3 or the tiny scale combat of the ARTNES.

I personally liked the small scale of ARTNES, and wonder if it could work again(this one was just as small scaled when it came to provinces, due to the lack of them(which was good), but I think it had too many nations to make that a viable option).

I think we need to concentrate on making the maps clear and fun to play, as well as equal(the UKNES map is slighty unequal), and make sure that the emphasis is on how important a province is to you by not giving you too many(Byzantine take a hint :p ). Basically, if you only have four provinces, you're going to value each one higher than if you had say 25.

Woah, this has turned into a deep thought lol!

Back to my point though, I think the way ahead is smaller NESs(not in terms of number of people but in scale).

Nemesis

PS: Of course I advertise the new UKNES in the old one, cause I want all the people who made the last UKNES great to help with the new one! :)

lol, cant wait! I believe a world map should be the map of the future, in which I will use in the future JNES2. I believe in a simple NES, like that of UKNES2, only with a trading system introduced to add the new "embargo affect." The JNES was also much to hard to handle, and I am trying to still figure out why.

lol, im getting excited for the new NES, i think I will start looking for a good map to edit. Does anyone know where I can go to get some .bmp maps to edit of blank world maps?

Jason: I think probably due to the trade. I'm afraid to say that however much I have tried, I cannot find a simple way to put trade in, despite loving the JNES resources.

How about something along the lines of 1 gold for every border it shares with another nation, including sharing the same sea(ie; Britain would get gold from having a border with France due to them both bordering the English Channel).

Then if an embargo was declared, depending on how big the border was, it could affect them in different ways(ie; Spain could have 3 provinces bordering France but France only having two bordering all 3 of Spain's, giving France less money overall but they would be hurt less by the embargo).

Or perhaps just 1 gold for every nation you border, regardless of number of provinces. This would reflect the trade, by sea or by land.

Nemesis

Jason: Depends on what kind of map you're thinking of. If you want one with provinces, then a Diplomacy variant map. If you want one without provinces, then Das's map.

But I think you shouldn't go global, it would make the game too big. I think perhaps just selecting an area(possibly Japan, Shogun: Total War like) would be best, and keeping the scale small(no more than 7 provinces per nation).

If you want area maps that are already in provinces, try http://www.diplom.org

Nemesis

thanks, Nem

Well, I found nice maps of Japan and Ireland: http://home.earthlink.net/~bthester777/Sengoku.gif http://www.stupendousgames.com/ardri/map.jpg

Actually, I am thinking about an American one. With some states, and Canadian states, some Central american countries, and and some Mexican provinces.

Or, to make it easier for me (As i live in Califronia, America) just in the U.S. with different states. This, however, I fear would be unpopular due to so many peopple outside the U.S. post here.

Cool. Both require a bit of editing, but then so do most diplomacy maps.

Anyway, Jason, if you ever decide on one, and can't get the map right, send me a link and I'll see what I can do.

Nemesis

Jason: I'm British, and I don't mind the idea of an American NES. Especially a Civil War one...

How about having the North v South with the Indians on the sidelines?

The Indians could be made up of say four different factions that are totally independent of each other.

The North could be made of three different factions, each always allied to the other two, but going their own way about defeating the South, and the same for the South(three factions).

The objective for the North and South is obvious, re-unite the USA, and for the Indians it could be rule the Indian capital or something.

Just a few ideas.

Nemesis

OOOH! Nice idea, Uk. You can espect a new JNES in about a week. ;) I have already edited an American map, and this would be GREAT. Ok, back to editing again (I had edited it for a NES without history, srot of stupid. But this sounds SOO much more better! lol.) Tomorrow I will post what the map will look like so I can get some feedback. I will create it probly on another Thread.

I know this map has MANY flaws, I can spot them now, in territories and positions of starting people. But, this is going to be the general idea. Please, I need troq and Nem to at least give me some ideas of what to change. :) You can see I love sea's and are hopeing to make this an ocean game as well.

We got Navajo in the southwest American, Alascans in the northwest, Canadians in centra Canada, Iroquios (i know they are a little north the supposed to be...) in north east, the Union in eastern central, the Confederacy in the coutheast, MExico in Mexico, and I don't know who to call the south american nation, a little to late for the Inca's. Any ideas?

And also, I need some idea's about a trading system. I DONT want the same one as I had in the 1st JNES.

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Hm. Great looking map, but it seems to me imbalanced. For example, French Guinea [bottom right nation in the corner] can get to the Caribbean faster than CSA [the Confederates States of America] and also some of the seas are un-necessary. I would eliminate Sea Z, Sea X, and Sea V. I would also turn K/L into 1 sea. That's all!

The South-American nation could be named Colombia with its position.Would make historical sense,Colombia then was much bigger than today and stretched till Costa Rica.
The nation in Greenland has a very bad position I think.Canada and Iroquois could take all mainland provinces available to Greenland through F relatively quickly.

Double post.

whats that little thingy stickin out of 37

Unless I miss my guess, that would appear to be Louisiana.

lol, i dont know what is sticking out of 37! Thats wierd. It was already on the map, I just added lines in it.

Perhapos I get rid of Iroqiuos?

Jason: I'd suggest a few easier to defend borders on there(bottlenecks in war, ones that people always build up troops in).

Also, what will be the objective of your game?

Finally, are you going to add more than one player each for the Union and Confederacy? Because on here they're the same size as everyone else, when they were actually pretty big in comparison. More than one player for each would be more realistic and allow you to scale down the number of other players.

Nemesis

Why are you guys using this 1 province start? Why not start with most of the map already taken and a couple of disputed provinces instead? This would lead to more wars and more fun. I think it is strange when the borders are unrealistic.

IceEye: For scenarios that can be fun, but often the player prefers to create his own destiny.

In A Beacon of Hope, the nations were already quite developed, and it actually led to more problems that it sorted in my opinion, forcing people to expand in directions they may not have wanted to.

But in scenarios I think there is a place for already set up countries(or at least partially), so long as they all start equally, which is the big problem.

Nemesis

Nem: No, I think I wil keep at one player each, as for simplicity. But, i tried to make provinces small around those two nations so that they may become more powerful faster :). Also, a few names please. I got Lincoln, Jefferson Davis, and...well.. thats about it :). I will soon post a new map, revised.

I deleted the Sioux, in hopes for a few more provinces for each nation. The # of provinces, ironically, are too much without sioux, but to less with Sioux! Anyways, I made it do Greenalnd had an extra province, and I can get to 23 easily. I also took one from Columbia to hopefully straighten it out. Also, I need a new trading system thats easy , I cant express that enough!

How about just 1 gold for each neighbour that you have less or equal to two provinces/seas away, and none if you're embargoing each other?

Nemesis

And I am thinking of turning CUBA into one province.

Nme: Can you explain more on your trading and an example?

Well actually I said it wrong. I meant that you can trade with anyone that your border is ONE province or sea away from, or borders.

So just from the start, the USA and the CSA would be able to trade(just 40 between them). But the CSA and Mexico couldn't trade(cause there's P and 62 between them, not just P) until Mexico took 62, making the border only one sea away(P).

For each nation you have this kind of border with, you get one extra gold.

Nemesis

Oh I see, and when a embargo is inflicted on a nation, then (assuming the nations around it sign the embargo) it wouldnt get the extra gold! Great idea, Nem. If you don't mind, I wuld like to use that for JNES2. I am getting close to opening JNES2 soon. I am now just sorting out a few things, it should be up either today or tomorrow!

Of course you can use it for the JNES2, that's what I was actually coming up with the idea for(I'm not going to use it in the UKNES3 or 4, people already try to cut each other's income of in every possible way!).

Anyway, look forward to playing it!

Nemesis