As the XML coder, it has occurred to me that most of the other XML files reference techs, which we do not have, yet. So kick around some ideas, and if you really want to be cool, accompany them with fun quotes to go along with them.

Hydroponics
Cloning
Shields
Robotics
Genetics
Cold Fusion
Geo Mining
Laser
Antidotes

Neurophysiology: Shaped a little like a loaf of French country bread, our brain is a crowded chemistry lab, bustling with nonstop neural conversations. - Diane Ackerman

Weather control: The trouble with weather forecasting is that it's right too often for us to ignore it and wrong too often for us to rely on it. - Patrick Young

Climate Control: We are what suns and winds and waters make us.
(W. S. Landor)

Nanobots

Miniaturization: We're gonna drink this one to Ozzie. A good man who tried to save my ass by injecting me into yours. Lt. Tuck Pendleton "inner space"

Artificial Intelligence
Cybernetics
Bionics
Disintegration

These techs may seem futuristic but that’s all we have in front of us.

How do these techs seem:

Space techs(in order):
Non-rocket spacelaunch
Artificial gravity
Terraforming
Moon colonization
Faster-than-light travel
Dyson sphere
Galaxy colonization

Other:
Holography
Fusion power
Semantic Web
Bio fuels
3D printing
Carbon nanotubes
Flying cars
Electric cars
Genetic engineering
Intelligence amplification
Hydroponics
Cloning
Shields
Robotics
Genetics
Cold Fusion
Geo Mining
Laser
Antidotes
Neurophysiology
Weather control
Climate Control
Nanobots
Miniaturization
Artificial Intelligence
Cybernetics
Bionics
Mind uploading
Reversible cryonics


Thanks Amogos for some ideas.

I started a tech chart. much of it is very wrong, but I couldn't think of anything else. Constructive criticism:)

What do you mean by shields and Geo mining, Amogos?

ijnavy, this is an edit to your list:

NO Artificial gravity (AG is at LEAST a 1000 years away, it's only popular because you can't have a good space saga without it)
Terraforming
Moon colonization
Warp Drive is a better name than Faster-than-light travel, but still 100 years away probably if ever
Dyson sphere (please explain)
NO Galaxy colonization (just to remind you this is an Earth game not a space game [the tech is also at LEAST 2000 years away])

Other:
Holographics
Fusion power
Semantic Web
Bio fuels
3D printing
Carbon nanotubes
Avro cars instead of Flying cars
Hydro Fuels instead of Electric cars (maybe)
Genetic engineering
NO Intelligence amplification (isn’t that what Mind uploading is)
Hydroponics
Cloning
Shields (to explain: Shield is the ability to pull the electric particles around the user to form a semi-solid armor, though, it can easily be disrupted)
Robotics
Genetics
Cold Fusion
Geo Mining (essentially advanced underground mining, the ability to go way, way, way, way, down)
Laser
Antidotes (maybe make all cures different techs)
Neurophysiology
Weather Control
Climate Control
Nanobotics
Miniaturization (only the very basic shrink ray idea, it's not a conventional everyday tech)
Artificial Intelligence
Cybernetics
Bionics
Mind uploading is replaced by Implants
Reversible cryonics (explain)
Super Strong Alloy (or something to the jest)
Monobots (I think it's like independent robots [MechAssault])

Also tech chart Genetics does not requir Neurophysiology but Mind uploading/Implants does.

Then:
Dyson sphere, if you think that artificial gravity should not be in, then the Dyson sphere is way out. Dyson sphere: here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_sphere)

Antidote for cancer?

Reversible Cryonics, cryonics is when you freeze a person. Reversible cryonics is when in the future(100 years?), you unfreeze them and they are alive and remember everything.

If you think that cloning and terraforming should stay, then artificial gravity, light speed travel, and galaxy colonization (as the last tech) should be in.

We have to be clear about how far into the future we expect this mod to be. Since we have one month per turn it won't be going too far. I don't think we should plan technologies for after 2050.
So most of the space techs are too far ahead. And so is, I guess, Climate Control.

And don't forget that we have to keep in mind the technologies of the present. Developing countries don't have researched every tech that we already have. Looking at the vanilla tech tree I presume that every tech is known in every country up to fission. Fission and everything that comes after should be in our tech tree, too.

One month ago I talked with NwabudikeMorgan about some techs, mostly non-military and social/cultural ones. Here are our suggestions:

(Post)Structuralism Basic tech for many cultural techs...1st to discover receives Great Intellectual

Solid Freeform Fabrication (=3D Printing) Enables civic Knowledge Economy (see World 2008 thread)

Organic Farming Enables Organic Farm Improvement (compared to conventional farms: -1 :food:, +1 :health:)

Genetically modified food Enables GMF wonder, which provides resource hybrid seeds, which makes (conventional) farmlands produce +1 :food: and +0,5 :yuck:

Microcredits still to think about it

Privatization do.

Nationalization build a unit to nationalize foreign corporations so their gold benefit goes no longer to the foreign civ but the other benefits are still working

Research on Climate Change could give possibility to reduce global warming

Preventive State could enable the civic preventive state that reduces danger of hostile espionage and terrorism, causes unhappiness

Surveillance enables building CCTV (increases costs for hostile espionage/terrorism missions, but causes +1 :mad:)

Integral Medicine could add bonuses to hospitals

Renewable Energy more options on power plants

Solar thermal energy enables improvement Solar Power Plant for desert squares

Electric Car +1 :health: to Public Transportation system

Nanotechnology stll to think about that

Stem Cell therapy health benefits, health wonders etc.?

Gender Mainstreaming enables building Daycare facility which increases: +5%:culture:, +5%:commerce:, and +5%:hammers:

Biopolitics enables building Health promotion centre or HIV prevention centre that could increase :health:
I'd love to include a severe HIV problem into the mod that would constantly reduce population in underdeveloped countries until they build such buildings.

Integration enables civic Multiculturalism

Consumerism enanbles Mall (no UB) that increases :gold:, produces :yuck:

Web 2.0 dont know about that yet

Antipsychiatry enables building Rehabilitation Facility that replaces Jail after that tech is discovered (IMO Jail should produce :mad: in peace times). Will have the benefits of Jail without the just mentioned :mad:

Cogeneration upgrades factories and power plants

GPS might enable a project called GPS that grants units a "morale"-like promotion (=+1 movement)

Your list is very good.
I just have to ask why is each turn 1 month, why can't it be 1 year or more. That way, we can play til 2400 (392 turns) or even farther and make the game more interesting?

Well, IMO it happens so much in one year that one year per turn would be too fast. I think we're trying to display the world as it is now and not to create a science fiction mod. :)
And it's hard to believe that a marine unit would take one year to get from one square to another... ;)

We're not creating a science fiction mod of the future:( ;)

How about a warrior taking 25? years to move one square, CIV is not completely realistic.

Well, you know what I mean...2008-2050 is not classicaly "science fiction" but near future. 2400 is science fiction. :)

You're right, CIV is not completely realistic. But aren't we trying to make something quite realistic?

I agree with your point. Well I guess I won't see cloning, galaxy colonization, and a Dyson sphere wonder.
Lets then start working on your list and maybe get somewhere about 30 techs?

I did a new tech tree with (almost) all the tech that were named here...
Some are missing. These were the ones I didn't know quite how to take.
Here it is...what do you think about it?

I don't see any techs that relate to clean coal, shale coal or ultra deep oil drilling. These are all technologies that are on the verge. We will still be using fossil fuels for atleast the next 50 years so excluding them is unrealistic. Also the Arctic is becoming a hotbed for future energy sources and should play a role in its future. Other than that I think it is a great start to the tech tree :goodjob: .

I would like to argue that cybernetics and genetics are two totally different branches of research. Genetics is using small tools to adjust small things that grow big like a bloody two headed sheep :eek:; this can also be small things making big things change drastically; and finally is considered incredibly immoral (only because most people are religious). Even cybernetic implants has little to do with genetics, cybernetics is about big thing making medium things to repair or replace human body parts; a scientist only needs some biological knowledge (so you know how to attach mech to man) and sophisticated electrical equipment.
And a couple other tech ideas.
Cell Phone
Advanced Flight
Stealth
Identification (cultural tech, essentially writing ever citizen, when born, one a long list to keep track)
3D Modeling
I don't know what it would be called but using the internet to connect different computers to compute information faster (some people are doing that with the PS3 to find cures for disease)

ijnavy, this is an edit to your list:

NO Artificial gravity (AG is at LEAST a 1000 years away, it's only popular because you can't have a good space saga without it)



I'm sorry but couldn't artificial gravity bbe easily achieved with magnetic forces and suits that would rspond to the pull? Perhaps more of a simulated gravity?

leoncalvin, magnets won't work because they effect computers :badcomp:. And simulated gravity (spinning the space ship to make gravity) is not anywhere near Earth's gravity so they actual effect is very limited, but it could be a tech to increase space ship production :).

Actually magnets do work! In a futuristic society we would have perfected solid state storage devices which are not affected by magnets. Hard drives as we know them are going out as it is. Solid-State Is much faster and reliable. In facct you could almost make that a tech.

Solid-State storage- with an added event that happens when you discover computers. Solid state would stop magnetic erasing of research.

Seems like a bad idea bt i put it out there in case anyone migh tmae it a good one via overhaul.

All suggestions should be considered leo and it's a fine one IMO. Solid State Storage could be revolutionary.

Has anyone thought simply about using Alpha Centauri tech tree, minus things connected to the Planet and early survival techs?

Hybrid Molecules leads to Quantum Computing (new techs)

maybe we also shall think backwards on the U-Countries for more old techs, cause now we have focused most on the developed west.

maybe we also shall think backwards on the U-Countries for more old techs, cause now we have focused most on the developed west.

Actually we did. On the tech tree I posted many of the techs are already known in the developed west but not in developing countries...

So the developing countries will start from the beginning of the tech tree and the western further forward?

I don't know if this is the right forum but the US are developing some kind of battlesuit with screens and no need to talk at all orders pop up on the screen, they think they will be ready around 2020.

I don't know if this is the right forum but the US are developing some kind of battlesuit with screens and no need to talk at all orders pop up on the screen, they think they will be ready around 2020.

This is something I have been looking into for our infantry units.The "Future Combat System Program" could be a national wonder available to all Civs once they reach all of the necessary techs. All infantry units produced in the city where the FCSP is built will receive future warrior promotions.

Future Combat System Program technologies:
Soldier Protection, Small Unit Lethality Integration, Soldier Power, Small Unit Systems Integration and Demonstration, Soldier Network Integration and Soldier Mobility & Enhanced Load Carriage.

Future techs:
Smart textiles and smart materials
Nanotechnolgies/Nanomachines
Artificial Powered Exoskeletons
Magnetorheological fluid

I'm sure we could find a way to use the existing techs on the tree and non-military uses for any techs we need to add. Here is the Wikipage for theFuture Warrior (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Force_Warrior).

When i saw them they were totally black. Also an adicction they were made of soft armor that reacted to the bullets vibrations in the air and got hard really fast.

Also check this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMESS Check the "see also" list for the most of the projects, and include the Swiss IMESS.

EDIT:Oh there was also a list in the Future Warrior link.

[QUOTE=hevehoc;7009235]and got hard really fast.
QUOTE]

:shifty::nono::mischief:[offtopic]:lol:

[QUOTE=hevehoc;7009235]and got hard really fast.
QUOTE]

:shifty::nono::mischief:[offtopic]:lol:

:confused:

When i saw them they were totally black. Also an adicction they were made of soft armor that reacted to the bullets vibrations in the air and got hard really fast.

Also check this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMESS Check the "see also" list for the most of the projects, and include the Swiss IMESS.

EDIT:Oh there was also a list in the Future Warrior link.

yeah bout' the blacky thing, they looked like the armors they have in Crysis :borg: almost

I think that it should be a unit not a tech. You need technology to make them, but they are not a tech.

I think that it should be a unit not a tech. You need technology to make them, but they are not a tech.

yes i know but i wrote it here cause there should be a tech that enables them :) .

Do we have technologies that enable certain civics yet? I was figuring it might be realistic to make the Chinese and Middle Eastern countries research democracy before they can implement it; likewise, Japan could start with the tech for Professional labor, and North Korea with the tech for Military-Industrial economy.

So to make a fair game the USA has to be laking cultural and fascist techs. But have will have lots of advanced and economic techs, I'm guessing.

I was figuring it might be realistic to make the Chinese and Middle Eastern countries research democracy before they can implement it...I think a civic switch should definitely take time and cost gold.So to make a fair game the USA has to be laking cultural and fascist techs. But have will have lots of advanced and economic techs, I'm guessing.What sort of techs are we talking about?

Originally Posted by NikNaks
we
Supposing you are directing this question at me: The USA has all the techs that the less advanced countries have so to even thins out US has to be culturally and dictatorially backwards. Such things as Hydroponics they'll have but not Structuralism or something like that. (Also could someone tell me how to properly conduct a "Quote")

Does anyone want to volunteer to do the tech tree? We have a lot of ideas floating around, but nothing actually made thus far.

I can do it, if you wish. It'll take a bit though, since summer break is nearly at a close and i need to study for exams.

Anyways, yes, I can mod the techtree. I can add the techs, etc to the XML. However, the tags used must be SDK'd/Python'd. Finally, I need to get a question answered about adding buttons to seal the deal.

What's your question?

I modded into the set tech tree a few techs:
Turbine Propulsion, Jet Propulsion, and 2 other techs.

To do this, I copied the TECH_RADIO block and changed the names and variables and research costs, etc. However, I need to find a way to a) add buttons to the Atlas and b) find out why the techs show up in the in-game tech tree as "Radio", not Jet Propulsion.

Okay, you don't need to add buttons to an atlas, just omit any commas and use a normal button.

For the rest, can you paste one of your examples?

Using a normal button is fine...also, where are the Civilopedia entries located? Or do you want me to just compile the tech tree, and then arrange the grid?

I think setting up the basic tree would be best, first, then we can deal with text later.

For reference, please store them in World_2008_Techs_CIV4GameText.xml along with the tags for strategy and name.

The examples themselves are in any text file with the word "Pedia" in them.

Edit: Well, looks like I missed the first page discussion.

Anyways, the main point of this mod is to simulate the next few decades of time, up till 2050-ish, no? SO why do we have techs like Simulated Gravity and such? This is a historical mod, not a [I]science fiction[ /I]. I think we should focus on stuff that is reasonable to expect:

Quantum Mechanics
Nanotechnology
Robotics
Advanced Weaponry
Advanced Cityscapes (new buildings, etc)
New Philosophy
Medicine/Biology/Ecology

These all tie into each other quite nicely. New Philosophies and discussion of public health affect the way cities are designed; new weapons need new robotics and nanotechnology; Quantum Mechanics would require even greater leaps.

Plus, we'll have to establish modern tech categories, like:
Internet/Modern Computing
Communications
Space Exploration (Japan, Iran, Europe, Russia, US, China, India, Brazil....all key players)
Current Warfare
etc

For example, the African Union can't be expected to be thrown into modern technology when it's armies are barely equipped, it's communication links are nil, Internet penetration is low, etc. Thus, we have to establish modern techs to provide a realistic base.

Sorry, I wasn't very clear. I meant that the text and pedia entries for them should go there, not the actual techs. As for which are to be added, I think it would be good to go on IM to discuss the ideas. What IM are you using?

instead of advanced cityscape i think it shall be advanced construction.

Yeah, those were just broad categories.

I'm envisioning an FFH2-like tech tree: several lines of tech.

For example, choosing the Quantum Computing/Nanotechnology lines would give you bonuses on research and espionage (allowing you to steal military techs), but might leave you open to attack from more advanced militaries.

Computing Techs:
Optical Lattices
Qubit Generation
Quantum Gate Enhancement
Qubit Translation
Universal Gate Set
Quantum Theory
Quantum Experimentation
Transistor Patterning
Silicon Imprinting
Integrated Circuitry
Optical Computation
Photon Manipulation
Optical Transistor
Plasmon Generation

There are three distinct branches here: Optical Computation (usage of photons rather than electrons to computer), Quantum Computing (usage of 'qubits', or a bit that can be 1, 0, 1 and 0, or a superposition of both), and Modern/Electrical Computing (usage of transistors and bits).

:bump:

Well, I started a basic tech tree with the above techs in to test my skills. I should have the file posted soon.

Copy it into your Custom Assets folder with the modified Civilizations file (I'm changing it to have only 2 Civs).

Edit: well, that didnt boil over so well. For some reason there's an error parsing the file. I won't be able to play-test it unless I do one of tswo things:

1) enter each and every file referencing Civ4TechInfos, or
2) Go through the root Civ4TechInfos file, copy it, then go through the copy shifting each tech's x-value to increase by 10, then insert the code for the new technologies.

I'm feeling lazy at the moment, and I really don't want to.

Looking more at the game than hoping to predict the future:

Workers and tile improvements: gaining the ability to work in mountains, and to work the oceans. Mountains could have mines, but better would be a 'chalet' - a cottage that grows as normal, and also gives:health: Oceans and coastal tiles should also have cottages (Hong Kong already has a floating town, and I believe other cities do as well) or farms (as plankton farming has been suggested RW).Roads and rail lines are also theoretically practical at the moment, so should be available as future techs.
The ability to work currently useless tiles, eg tundra and desert.

To keep emancipation worthwhile, Towns should be able to grow larger: perhaps called exurbs or 'feeder cities'. In addition to increasing gold, they should also increase :yuck: and/or :mad:
Alternately, a variant on slavery/nationalism that lets you 'whip' towns.

Settlers: should eventually be able to found cities on ocean tiles.

Space: a wonder called the "powersat" - puts a solar power plant in every city you own. The option to nudge asteroids to strike at enemy nations - these would effectively be supernukes; and a random asteroid strike as a disaster so that no one is sure whether it was a deliberate attack. A wonder to blast away asteroids, both aimed and random.
A Space Corporation that gives access to metal resources (mined in the asteroid belt).

Pollution: artillery upgrade that lets the unit fire pollution at a tile. The ability for military units to Pillage pollution. A National wonder that gives a free specialist for every tile that is polluted (consider the way India has villages who live in garbage dumps, recycling everything).

Religion: Go through the options *again* - so Free religion becomes default, but can also have Organised Religion, or Theocracy, or Pacifism. Or Theocracy as default, but also Organised Religion or Pacifism.

Politically: 'semi-autonomous regions' - can build an extra Palace in city with significant foreign pop, benefits cities with that foreign element.

New Corporation: "Ecotourism" - uses up Whale (gives :culture: and :science:) and Elephant, (gives :gold: and :) )can only spread in nations with Environmentalism Civic.

The ability to trade :yuck: - allowing you to dump your rubbish in the 3rd world.

UN resolutions: "Hunting preserves" animals can appear with cultural boundaries (providing easy xp), "Autonomy Vote" currently rioting city becomes a new state, "Open Source" all nations must share currently known techs; "Disband" United Nations Expires.

I really like your ideas for towns, same with building improvements in mountains and some on deserts, like Israel has turning desert into farms.

I dont think Autonomy vote is a good idea, AFAIK the UN prefers to keep countries together when at all possible.

The tech tree is done, civs are basically set, for V1.0 at least. I think what we need to focus on now are buildings and units. Standard ones at first and then unique ones.

The tech tree is done, civs are basically set, for V1.0 at least. I think what we need to focus on now are buildings and units. Standard ones at first and then unique ones.

Where can I see a copy of the tech tree? That is sort of necessary for considering what types of units can be researched.

I finally have it; not bad. Maybe have some of the genetics-related techs give extra food from farms, but good otherwise.

Now, I still want to reinsert techs related to civics for some countries with backwards government to need to research. There was a sugestion instead that certain Civics should take a long time to implement, but a number of problems exist with this suggestion. One, sometimes massive change can be brought about instantly and nonviolently, as it was in the 1992 fall of the Soviet Regime, or Spain's quick transfer to democracy after Franco's death. So making a long revolution isn't exactly accurate.

Also, in the case of countries like China, adding Democracy techs would be more appropriate, because there, the problem is just that the government wants to be progressive, but places an emphasis on infrastructure rather than political modernization, so a tech could be more appropriate as something they normally just don't want to research.

I also have some ideas for tech quotes.

I finally have it; not bad. Maybe have some of the genetics-related techs give extra food from farms, but good otherwise.

After we get the buildings and units done, we'll have to go back to the tech tree to balance it out. The bonuses are very rough right now.


Now, I still want to reinsert techs related to civics for some countries with backwards government to need to research. There was a sugestion instead that certain Civics should take a long time to implement, but a number of problems exist with this suggestion. One, sometimes massive change can be brought about instantly and nonviolently, as it was in the 1992 fall of the Soviet Regime, or Spain's quick transfer to democracy after Franco's death. So making a long revolution isn't exactly accurate.

Also, in the case of countries like China, adding Democracy techs would be more appropriate, because there, the problem is just that the government wants to be progressive, but places an emphasis on infrastructure rather than political modernization, so a tech could be more appropriate as something they normally just don't want to research.

I tend to disagree about civis techs. We're trying to make this mod play out like the real world right? I don't see how, if a country like China was going to move towards what you're describing as democracy, that would affect their scientific research?

I thought a lot about that while working on the tech tree. I had a whole other line of research laid out for all countries, that could lead to new civics.

Religious Tolerance>

Marriage Rights>

Racial Equality
Gender Equality>

Religious equality>

New Philosophy?
New Financial System?


Anyway, I kept coming back to the problem that, generally social advancement does not stop with scientific research. So I think, at least for our version 1.0, we should keep the civis to ones that are currently in use, and all civs should have the ability to switch after a revolution.

I agree with niknaks that revolutions should be harder... not a perfect solution but I think it's our best option.


I also have some ideas for tech quotes.

Awesome. :)

I tend to disagree about civis techs. We're trying to make this mod play out like the real world right? I don't see how, if a country like China was going to move towards what you're describing as democracy, that would affect their scientific research?


It's less that democracy makes scientific research harder, so much as that we're using research in order to aproximate the real world development of government policy. So if you substitute government policy in real life for research in the game, you can notice the difference between countries in Eastern Europe, who would be moving towards democratiztion even if they're still poor (choosing to research democracy) and China, whose leaders would rather develop their economy than civil liberties (choosing to research economic technologies instead). Lengthening revolutions is not a good idea with simulatiing world events as they'd actually occur, whereas researching technologies is very doable. Especially since a lot of the civics I coded correspond to specific countries, but many are much more advanced than others.

The idea behind the first part of the tech tree is; you can either race to be the first to invent the electric car (first person to discover and build a plant will get a resource), or you can upgrade your military (in the case of the US, race towards missile defense while enemies try to research nukes). Less developed nations will obviously start without the older techs that developed countries start with.

If China decided to increase their civil liberties I don't see how it would slow down their military or scientific development, so I don't think there should be an option for that to happen in the game.

I don't think eastern Europe "moving towards democratization" would slow down or speed up these things either.

Since we're not inventing ideologies for this mod, all civics in the game exist on earth, and are known to everyone. Every country has the knowledge to change their government, it is only a matter of implementing the changes. This can be best represented by revolutions, some easy some difficult. Not perfect, but the best we have.

Some of the civics I coded simply cannot work without technologies of some sort, especially the utopian ones. Democracy arguably isn't one of them, but many of the economic and labor civics require some degree of technological progress. (Why do you think I was the one pushing for the tech tree to be completed?) The situation in the core game is that you do research to implement Civics based upon the advantages they can give you in the long run. From one standpoint that would seem weird in a mod that takes place in the modern world, but I remade the civic system to essentially fit the modern world situation, so unlocking new ones once again works.

I remain skeptical of you guys reworking revolution to be more difficult, until I see exactly what your plans are, and even then, I refuse to make every civic free.

That's fine man, do what you want with the civics, but can't you just tack new civics to techs that are already in the list?

Tomorrow I'll post my list of what techs each civ should start with.

Under most cases, yes, I can just tack Civics on. However, with government civics, there are few relevent techs. The problem I have at the moment is that some nations clearly start without techs that more modern nations have in terms of weapons, so I think it makes sense to do the same with government. There are many government Civs that depend upon a certain sort of population, but I'll need to look at the techs again before I reach my final decision.

I tend to disagree about civis techs. We're trying to make this mod play out like the real world right? I don't see how, if a country like China was going to move towards what you're describing as democracy, that would affect their scientific research?

The classic example is Lysenkoism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism) but sooner or later happens in any dictatorship - because scientists are more concerned with staying alive rather than learning the truth, they don't rock the boat or announce anything that contradicts accepted wisdom. Since scientific breakthroughs come from the experiments that don't go as expected, their research stalls.

The classic example is Lysenkoism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism) but sooner or later happens in any dictatorship - because scientists are more concerned with staying alive rather than learning the truth, they don't rock the boat or announce anything that contradicts accepted wisdom. Since scientific breakthroughs come from the experiments that don't go as expected, their research stalls.


I agree this happens in places like Ceausescu's Romania, but not so much in places like China.

And this is a result of the type of government, so we could have dictatorial civics lower a country's scientific development, but it doesn't stem from a country transitioning from a repressive one to a democratic one.

I agree this happens in places like Ceausescu's Romania, but not so much in places like China.
Uh-huh...
The Cultural Revolution?


And this is a result of the type of government, so we could have dictatorial civics lower a country's scientific development, but it doesn't stem from a country transitioning from a repressive one to a democratic one.
Oh sorry, I didn't realise you were talking about the Anarchy shift.
A rule from management is that one re-organisation is worth three fires. Basically, everyone is focused on keeping their jobs, so has to play politics rather than actually buckling down and getting work done. And then people have to be retrained into a new way of requesting resources etc.
Sure, it stabilises pretty quickly, but hey the Anarchy shift is only one turn per Civic. And for a future mod, turns should continue to get shorter.

Big thanks to everyone who posted in this thread. For better or worse, this is where I drew most of the ideas for the current tech tree. :-)

Should start in 1990, end of the cold war, and proceed at one month per turn through about 2050. The meat and potatoes of techs is what buildings and units and imps they allow. So, the question is really what building and unit capabilities are avaialble to included and what near future tech can they be rationalized to? Techs are just a path to what they earn. You can make up a tech name once you habve that. Maglev, Deuterium Fusion Plant, Tritium Fusion Plant, International Space Station Wonder, Moon Colony, HUD Warrior...

Sorry dude this is a present day mod. So; no 1990s, no future.

Well, at least not that far into the future.

yes exactly; some 'already in development' type future, not sci fi stuff.

i think some areas that would be useful for today's technology is lasers, stemcell, cloneing, Different energy/resource for everything and more advanced military armor/protection. these are some ideas:)

Has anyone divided all the proposed techs into groups yet? I can't see that this has been done yet, but forgive me if I'm wrong and this isn't the way to go about this (I'm very new here). These groups could be long trees of technologies with some prequisites in other trees, how about:

Energy: How we get more energy, improve energy efficiency and reduce its impact (e.g. Solar Heating, Electric Car, Biofuels, Cellulosic fuels)

Environmental: How we protect, manage and improve the environment (very important tree (failure to research far ahead leads to escalating ecological problems for a Civ)) (e.g. Hydroponics, Ecology, Forest Management, Organic Farming)

Society: How the civs of the future manage to run their societies (particularly depends on technologies from other trees) (e.g. Consumerism, Structuralism)

Self-improvement: How humans will be able to self-improve themselves through technology (e.g. Bionics, Cybernetics, Genetic Engineering, Antipsychiatry)

Engineering: Encompasses military advancements and structural improvements (e.g. Super-strong alloys, Holographics, Nanotechnology)

Also a few new technologies that came to my mind (do we have to include quotes that have been made about the technologies recently, or can we fabricate some (ones that are reasonably 'far away') for fluidity?) which weren't included on the w2008ttechtree that I looked at and my reasoning behind adding them.

Nanobots - Tiny robots able to deliver medical improvements to the body and mend damage to cells. It is reasonably far away, however by 2050 I can see (with the rate of advancement in Nanotechnology) their implementation to some degree.
(Although it could fall under Miniaturisation I suppose, debatable for inclusion)
Allows: +1 Health w/ Advanced Hospital

Cellulosic Fuels - Part of a second-generation of biofuels, cellulosic fuels come from cellulose found in plant matter and could provide the energy for the future. Plants in America are rapidly advancing techniques in delivering cellulosic fuels, so it is entirely feesable it will be in use soon.
Allows: Obseletes Biofuels, provides Energy and (+1 Production (or Food) for Farms)

Sorry we should post in this thread I guess, the tech tree for version 1.0 is essentially finished. Good ideas though.

Sorry we should post in this thread I guess, the tech tree for version 1.0 is essentially finished. Good ideas though.

I'm curious. :D Can you post it here or are you afraid of the unavoidable change requests? :p But I guess everyone can accept that the tech tree for v1.0 is finished.

No, I'm fine with making changes. It's not perfect, and it will no doubt change over time. Although, I personally think we should leave it as is for at least the first stage of testing.

Download the mod from the SVN, it's in there! Should I post screenshots of it or something in this thread?

Oh right, don't feel you have to adapt it on my account, although I was hoping I could help with it! Do you need images for the technologies perhaps?

Should I post screenshots of it or something in this thread?

That would be awesome! :)

That would be awesome! :)

And appreciated, I have no idea what technologies are currently accepted. Also where shall I sign up for doing technology images? I'm eager to sink my teeth into a few and help the process! :D

Here is the tech tree.


A few notes.


The idea behind this tree is;

for the modern era, to include techs that some countries have and others don't. For the future era, to only include techs that are being researched/developed and are likely to play a role over the next 50 years. Trying to figure out which techs will be realized first in reality is somewhat futile, so I essentially tried to focus on making a playable game. I got a lot (most?) of the ideas for techs from this thread, thanks guys.

-I tried to use the ideas in Maniac's guide (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=274045) to making a balanced tech tree. Most of the bonuses from techs still have to be worked out. We'll do this once we have all the buildings in the game, so we can see which techs still need to be strengthened/weakened to make it balanced.

-please give your input, we're open to corrections, changes, improvements, and additions. But, let's wait until we do some testing before we start with too many "move this here, that there, add this, remove this" advice. Let's see how it plays.

-No one make any changes to the tech tree without running them by myself or NikNaks first please. Everyone is working under the assumption that these will be the techs for the first release. Modders, don't update the SVN with any changes to the tech tree before consulting one of us please.

-remember we are building the present and the foreseeable near future. Not the future.

-I'll post the list tomorrow of which civs will start with which techs. Obviously less developed civs will still have to research some/all of the early techs. Developed civs will have as close to what they have in reality as possible. The USA will be the most advanced; the only one with stealth, G.P.S. (+EU), and moon landing. But some other civs will be closer to the Fuel Cell and Electric Car.

-FYI; Moon Landing is not supposed to lead to anything else, since at this point in time, landing on the moon is not a pre-requisite for any country getting any new technology. This one will be optional for civs, but it will provide a fairly good size culture and research bonus when you get it. You should probably have to build some sort of national wonder as well before getting the bonuses.

-I wanted to include at least a few different paths for players that have the potential for different advantages. Right off the bat, the idea is to choose between advancing your military technology, trying to race for the electric car, or going for the health advantages of stem cell research. We have to tweak it so none of these paths will be an AI trap. My thinking is, that the electric car tech will allow a world wonder (electric car factory), which will give 15 or so electric car resources that can be sold like any other resource. Same thing for Electric Mass Transport and possibly others.

-Strategic Missile Defense and SDI are different. The latter is like the patriot missile systems the US is developing. SDI is the space based ronald reagan star wars idea. The first requires a patriot missile system building in each city it protects, SDI takes a national wonder (like existing SDI). Both with have three levels of effectiveness using the existing code from one of the mods we have already merged in. Obviously SDI is much more effective, but even the US won't be able to get it built until 2040-50.

-Towards the end you'll notice the Future Combat System techs. These will most likely not be included in the first version, since we'll need totally unique art for at least 4-5 new units, that no one is working on yet (and we have a backlog of existing units we still need art for). Once we do get these in the game, the first civs to discover each tech and build a wonder (factory), will get licenses for each and become an arms dealer.


-The end should be a race as well, towards the Mars Landing or Sustainability. First to reach mars landing and build the wonder should get a large research bonus towards future techs (I think we should have three, one giving health bonusus (future medical tech), one giving income bonuses, and one giving unit hitpoint bonuses (or possibly unit healing bonuses). We will have to see how the AI will work with this before deciding for sure what to do at the end. The first to get to sustainability should get a large health bonus. Later in the game, not having sustainability should really hurt any cites' health. I wanted to have it so that if you don't get sustainability before a certain year (say 2045), you can never get it, and you're basically screwed as your cities shrink while others who have it are able to grow indefinitely. I don't think we'll be able to do it though. Shall see.


-Total identification is really the only civic related tech in there right now. This should allow for a more totalitarian/surveillance state type civic. No civ will start with this, but UK (NATO), USA, China and others will be close. The reason I included this and no other civic tech, is because this is the only civic related change I can foresee coming in the near future. Clearly some governments are moving towards using technology to totally track every citizen. This tech/civic(s) is supposed to represent the culmination of CCTV cameras, finger printing, wire tapping, RFID chips, etc. Bahmo please let me know if you need any other techs added to complete the civics.

*Updated with improved borders. Stealth and Electric Mass Transport (sustainable transport?) need slight tweaking. I think the rest are pretty much good to go.

Modern Era:

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/2093/world2009techtree1bqa8.jpg

...and

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/8924/world2009techtree2box6.jpg


Future Era:

http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/7413/world2009techtree3bkf7.jpg

...and:

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/4369/world2009techtree4bct1.jpg


Techs in the civilopedia:

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/3660/world2009techspediabxu0.jpg

edit: I improved all the buttons. hope you guys like them.

...and forgive the ugly optimizing of the images above. Looks better in game.

looks grand to me!
may I suggest "sustainable transport" or some such instead of mass electric transport?
they say hudrogen fuel cells are the way forward for cars aswell

Yeah I like that sheep21, I'll change that. Maybe Sustainable Car instead of Electric Car as well? So the fuel cell could be hydrogen.

Also I suppose it would be preferable to cut down some of the names, to reduce the instances of names being covered by those pre-req icons. Thoughts?

They also get cut off in the pedia.


http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/3660/world2009techspediabxu0.jpg

Those icons are gorgeous, can't believe they were made..

I'd love to add a border, however what the heck is a .dds file..? I simply cannot open it with anything.

You have to use a program like DTX BMP (http://pagesperso-orange.fr/melgesclub/tutorial.html) (free).

Hopefully you can find the good border file, or someone else can post it for you. If not, I will get it to you tomorrow.

Let me know if you need any additional help getting started. Feel free to send me PMs.

edited....

Ok, I redid the borders for all the tech buttons.

See the new screenshots here. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=7641954&postcount=77)

They look way better now.

Can I suggest a change of name for the following in the technology tree.

Modern Military > Modern Warfare - It is a term more commonly used and describes exactly the same thing. Audiences will be more aware of what it is they're researching and what we're talking about.

A problem, as I'm sure you're aware, arises with the Modern Air Power and Modern Naval Power. I'm really tempted to suggest Modern Aircraft as an alternative, but then for continuity purposes that would mean a change to Modern Ships, or Modern Vessels. I have to admit I prefer those two. It means we can fit the entire name onto the tree I believe as well. :)

It might be hidden, but it actually says Modern Military Armour. As you mention, the problem is that Modern Warfare include air force and navy, and I wanted to have those three separate.

In that case can we change it to simply Modern Armour? Again I guess there may be an issue with the unit, but I don't think it's more damaging than having a tech we can't actually see on the tree.

Sure, good call. Let's shorten all the ones that are too long.

Alright, which one of you broke the board? :crazyeye:

Not me.. :)

I hope everyone will agree that making a seperate entry for 'Advanced [techs]' is rather pointless, so I'll duplicate them (this goes for Satellites and Missile Delivery atm).

If anyone can find a quote on biofuels that would be appreciated, I struggled to find a decent and relevant one.

no please don't duplicated them, just leave them empty for now I guess.

Missile delivery represents very basic missiles, advanced is more like Patriot missiles.

Satellites represents having satellites, advanced is supposed to represent the ability to launch your own.

european space agency\nasa, that sort of thing?

Yes exactly. Perhaps we can name the tech better. Or add a national wonder. Or both.

Okay I'll leave them for the moment.

Another proposed change (aren't I picky?). Should we make Modern Air and Naval Power into Modern Aircraft and Modern Vessels/Ships? Anyone any thoughts (pros and cons) for this?

Also, do we need to replace the existing technologies from the original Civ IV (e.g. robotics, computers, fusion) or should we simply leave them as they are in the civilopedia? Do they need replacing? What does everyone think?

I'd say you could just leave the ones that are also in the original game.

I like the tech tree in general but I don't like the lack of "intellectual" technologies. I think they are both an important part of civ in general and of the real world. This current tech tree consists entirely of "technologic technologies", if you understand what I mean.
I think it is important to include intellectual technologies as well. If the decision was solely on me I would even add (utopian/futuristic) intell. techs for the future era that are now thought of but don't work yet (like "multiculturalism"). But I can understand the dislike of utopian techs some people are having.
But maybe we can agree to at least include some intell. techs for the modern era, i.e. some that are only discovered by certains civs. An example of this might be a "gender mainstreaming" tech, or, as Bahmo pointed out in the other thread (I found his arguments very convincing), even "democracy" and "liberalism".
What do you think about this, DVS? What was the reason not to include such techs in this tree?

I had a line of techs like that, I removed it because I thought it was highly unrealistic that any, let alone all of them will be happening within the next 43 years, our game's time span. There will be no racial equality, or any type of utopia, within our mod's time span.

Communism, socialism, free market capitalism, emancipation, all civics that any country in the world could conceivable change to within the next 43 are already understood by everyone. Changing to them does not require further research, like scientific technologies do. Changing a society will take time to implement, which is best represented by extended revolution times.

That is why I chose to only include Total Identification. This is something that doesn't exist yet, but is clearly being worked on. If any of you can suggest any others like that, we could add them.

Yes, I know. It is hard to predict the future. Although I'd like to point out that 43 years ago most people wouldn't have believed that there would be an Afro-American president in 2009...
But I accept that opinion of yours. However, that does not mean that we can't include such techs at all. There are social/intellectual techs that are existent but not yet everywhere in the world.

For me the moment a civ tech is fully researched in a civ does not represent the moment when the first scientist had the first successful experiment on that tech but the moment when that tech is known well enough and so well-established to be used throughout the whole civ. It is the same with "gunpowder" as it is with "liberalism". Otherwise you couldn't explain why in very moment you discover "gunpowder" you're able to build muketmen in each city on a grand scale.

So it is the same in our mod. The discovery of a tech should mean that it can now be fully mastered everywhere in that civ. Not the knowledge of it's functioning is the important thing but the ability to actually apply it. That's why I'd like to have the following techs in our tech tree:
Liberalism
Democracy
Gender equation or mainstreaming
Biopolitics

"43 years ago most people wouldn't have believed that there would be an Afro-American president in 2009"

That is far from a civic change. The last change in civics to occur in the USA was universal suffrage in 1964. And that wasn't something that took research.

I'm a little confused about what Total Identification is exactly. I have some ideas, but unless it goes under a different name I can't find much about it.

It hasn't happened yet; modern totalitarianism basically. It is pretty much what the UK and others are heading towards; a society where the government tracks every citizen at all times. It's the culmination of cctv cameras, fingerprinting, RFID chips, etc etc.

Don't worry about doing pedia entries for this and/or others you're not sure about. Or, just send me a message and I can elaborate as much as possible on any you're not sure about.

Oh a Big Brother society. I thought as much. I might take you up on a few offers for the pedia entries, but most I am able to get ahold of (occasionally some naming conventions are lost in translation).

yes exactly.

feel free to hit me up any time.

That is far from a civic change. The last change in civics to occur in the USA was universal suffrage in 1964. And that wasn't something that took research.

I know. That was just to point out that there can be sociocultural changes that you cannot predict.

Sorry if I'm annoying with this ;) but I think you still weren't really responsive why not to include sociocultural techs that are already existent but not yet managed throughout the whole world.

Concerning expanded anarchy times due to civic changes...I don't feel it is realistic if Russia changed from State Controlled media civic to State Censored that Russia would descend into anarchy for 10 months... :(

Revolution times vary depending on what the changes are! So, the change you mentioned may mean no anarchy at all. Whereas a drastic change, from something like democracy to communism will take months, even years.

OK. That sounds reasonable.
Yet at the moment we have no means to tackle the gender issue. If we had a civic on that I'd shut up now. But we don't and I feel this is to big an issue in the world to ignore it. So I think it deserves a tech. If you have a counter-proposal how to include the gender issue I'll be glad to listen.

The "gender issue" hasn't been solved in 18 million years, I guess it won't be solved in our game. Sorry bro.

Excuse me...but we have states, like Norway, or Sweden that are almost there. You can't tell me that these states won't be able to achieve gender equality within the next 50 years.

And even if not: You can't tell me that the situation for women is the same in Yemen and Sweden. And you can't tell me that this difference has no effect in the world. Have a look at the current Gender Equity Index (http://www.socialwatch.org/en/avancesyRetrocesos/IEG_2008/images/img_full/interior_eng_gde.gif). We must not ignore that.

Don't take this the wrong way but it really really rankles me that people put such a lot of effort into putting every single HUMVEE into it's correct placement on the map but just have a shrug for the complex of problems that affects the lives of half the world's population. Is it because the team entirely consists of males? We shouldn't be that ignorant on that.

I don't want to offend anyone, especially not you, DVS. You seem to be a politically enlightened person with a nice avatar I'd use myself if you didn't already. That's why I'm especially wondering why there is so little sensitivity for this subject on your side.

I don't insist that we incorporate this for the first Version. I am totally fine if we save it for a later version. It was just this shrugging "sorry, bro" reaction that let me write another response.

Equality eh? I can see it being an issue that is dealt with more reasonably in the next 50-100 years (I don't think it will ever be 'solved' in the traditional sense). Perhaps when we come to the attributes of the tehcs we can find one which can encorporate this ideal, or make one. :)

ianinsane, I feel for you mate when it comes to trying "to get it right."

I would contribute more on this but im not so knowledgeable on this subject, perhaps I should dig out my old sociology books during the week and contribute something worthwhile.

Ok, sorry this post had to wait longer than I sad it would, I couldn't find my original tech tree. I decided not to use this line before I put anything on the computer... I had to dig up my original concept drawings.

This is what I had at first. I decided to kill this early on, so I didn't put much thought into it (not very good, if we do decided to add these, we can probably find better names etc)


>Universal Marriage Rights-

>Racial Equality
Gender Equality-

>Religious Equality

The after that, I was considering including something like "New Philosophy" and "New Financial System", similar to our new treatments and new cures techs. First I started rethinking order; gender equality includes transgender people, and I don't know, which of these will come first? Impossible to say right? And certainly, thinking further, there is no chance that there will be religious equality in 50 years. Or ever, as long as religions exist. They were invented and exist only to divide people, a world in which all religions live in tolerance is not even conceivable IMO.

However, I ended up dropping this completely. I decided that these advancements were better represented by civic changes, revolutions, and generally civil disobedience (unhappiness). So, for example, as time goes on, if you don't switch to a civic that encompasses gender equality, you'll have "-10 You should be ashamed of your woman's rights record", or the like. Same with the others. To me, it seems, social justice is achieved by people, movements, which finally put enough pressure on the people who are fighting for inequality (we all know who these people are), and that is when things change. There is no scientific research involved. So, I hope you'll understand now, that I by leaving these ideas out of the tech tree, I didn't WANT to ignore social issues. I just didn't like the tech tree as the place to represent them. Plus I'm somewhat skeptical about these things being possible in our time frame. Sweden has solved gender inequality? There is no more domestic violence? I have never heard that, that would be impressive.

If we do end up with civics that represent this issues, I was thinking we could just unlock them with other, unrelated techs. Countries should be able to make these advancements later in the game, but should it eat up research time? Or should it just take civics changes along with possible turns of anarchy? That is the question we have to agree on.

I haven't seen our civics yet, Bahmo hasn't posted them here still, and there is one asset error being triggered by his files that I haven't had the time to find yet. So I can't say exactly what our civics are looking like right now.

Sweden is close to gender equality? Sure they may have equal pay and things like that, but you think in 50 years that they will have stopped rape and domestic violence? I hope you're right, I am skeptical.

No, no. Sweden hasn't solved it yet. But they are so far and have made such a progress in the past 50 years that I think it would be strange if they will not in the next 50 years.
Of course there still is rape and domestic violence, without a doubt. But this is something you have to separate from gender equality. As long as there will be violence in the world there will be domestic one, too, and rape. In heterosexual relationships as well as in homosexual relationships. Gender equality, however, in this aspect IMO is reached when there are no legal or social structures that take the gender or marital status of the offender or the victim into consideration when judging.

I hope you saw the post above that one, too. ^^

Let me know specifics of what you want to see, I'm sure we can make it happen.

Thanks, DVS, for the post. Now I can see much clearer. I really didn't assume you were ignoring social issues but I feel I had to get this discussion started.

I can see the reasons why you left these field of research out of your tech tree. But since this is a real turning away from the original mechanisms of the Civilization game (representing social progress through technologies) I'd have liked an open discussion about it.

I personally think it makes perfect sense to have social progress as techs. And it makes perfect sense to have social progress "eat up research time". After all technological progress and social progress compete for the same resource: Young, creative minds and their time and dedication.
Not surprising that social progress in modern era (almost) always started at universities. I can think of some examples: The German democratic movement that came into being in 1848, the sexual revolution, the protests of 1968...
Not surprising that in the years of neoliberal dogmatism since the 1990s no big social advances were made in western countries: It was the aim of the ones in power to use all available young creative minds for economic and technologic progress. In Europe this led to the so-called Bologna process (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna_process). It reformed universities in a way that made it impossible for students to engage in anything that is not content of the ridiculously narrowed down curricula. No time for researching social techs...
So I think the core conflict is actually not that social progress would take away research time from technological progress in an unrealistic way. The only unrealistic thing is that in civ you can only research one tech at a time. But I'm not sure if this can be solved. Would be cool if you could distribute research priorities to single techs like you can do with civs in the espionage screen.

I agree to leave the tech tree as it is for now. But I definately would like to have a discussion if this is the way social progress should be represented in our mod. We can always change it for later versions.

Ah, you were faster than me :)
But I had more to type...

All true.


I personally think it makes perfect sense to have social progress as techs. And it makes perfect sense to have social progress "eat up research time". After all technological progress and social progress compete for the same resource: Young, creative minds and their time and dedication.
Not surprising that social progress in modern era (almost) always started at universities. I can think of some examples: The German democratic movement that came into being in 1848, the sexual revolution, the protests of 1968...
Not surprising that in the years of neoliberal dogmatism since the 1990s no big social advances were made in western countries: It was the aim of the ones in power to use all available young creative minds for economic and technologic progress. In Europe this led to the so-called Bologna process (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna_process). It reformed universities in a way that made it impossible for students to engage in anything that is not content of the ridiculously narrowed down curricula. No time for researching social techs...

That is pretty much exactly why I figured we would not have any kind of social advancement occurring in our mod at all.

That dogmatism era started not even 25 years ago and I still hope that it will be over within the next 5 years due to the current financial crisis. But I fear that I might be mistaken.

Still there is the possibility. And after all: What else are technologies in civ but possibilities? You don't have to research every tech. You used that principle in a clever way forcing civs to decide between the way towards sustainability or mars landing. So how about expanding that a little? How about a tech that represents the turning away from neoliberal "all for the economy" dogmatism that opens up a branch of social and intellectual advancements. As a possibility. You don't have to research it if you'd like to continue the tech-, military- and economy-oriented path.

Let's dredge this up. We will need to add some more techs to the mod, in order to account for all of the units planned. I've downloaded the techs and am playing around with them, but I've never done it before, so I might need help.

Here's a few of the things I think we need, right off the bat:
*Add Fission at the beginning, as a prequesite for Fusion and Nuclear Weaponry. It may have been discovered first during World War II, but the fact is that many countries still have not developed the capability to create superheavy elements, which is why it's such a sticky issue when nations like Iran announce they're doing it. Researching Fission would allow construction of Nuclear Reactors, along with Nuclear Submarines. (Though maybe some other tech would be required as well for the latter.)
*Sync up the techs so Nuclear Fusion is required for Cold Fusion, at least eventually.
*For some countries, we need more basic industrial/military techs. Remember that as much as this mod may be intended as the modern era, there are some nations that are a bit behind, so we need some techs that major nations like the USA and EU will have discovered, but some more primitive nations still need to research. This is to implement our multi-tiered unit system.

nice idea... why dont you add also instead of tech nuclear fission why dont (again) by level of resarch (idea from road to war) like: early nuclear fission little attomic bombs (think of ww2) and continue like that using diferent tipes of bombs not only one (TSAR BOMBA!!!!!) also talking about bombs why not conventional strong missiles or bombs (FOAB- MOAB) will be fun : )

continue like that so you could build nuclear reactors for energy (early = less safe) and keep on upgrading them while giving new bonuses...

and instead of (for example) advanced flight: supersonic engines... stealth aircafts... and keep on it...

I like your ideas, though I may not implement them until the current units are done. One thing people might not realize is that even units that are already in the core game can be a lot of work, since I have to bind them to our new tech tree.