Its summer time, and its been a while since a snakes and foxes type game. Se lets see how one works out. 40 players.

Dissensions V2.0

The Story Thus Far...

The factions have been at war for as long as time can remember. People have suffered long under constant assault, mystical bombardments, and mysterious assassinations. Finally, having heavily depleted their fighting forces, and with the onset of a 5 year drought, the leaders have finally decided to settle the score once and for all, in one final showdown of might and magic. Drawn from the far corners of their domains, each faction has sent forth its greatest warriors to compete to the death for complete domination over the Algean Scar. Each side, fearing total betrayal, has grudgingly allowed “neutral” oversight from the imperials, who of, as is natural to a power, seek to secretly manipulate the competition. These “agents” of the Imperium also partake in the tournament, seeking their own fame. Each warrior, sent a summons to the high court of the Imperium, made the long and arduous trek, each seeking glory and wealth, each bringing with them some sort of unique skill that set them apart from their peers. What ensued was one of the greatest tests of both physical and mental strength ever embarked upon. Would the strongest nation rise to power, or would the Imperials force a vassal upon the Algean Scar?

Game Overview

Dissension plays similarly to Chand's "Snakes and Foxes." The innocents vie for power for their homelands in a tournament filled with corruption, overseen by a power hungry Imperial’s "Agents."
The players are scattered among the 8 teams of 5 players, and vote daily for a battle to occur. These battles occur each night. After the public's choice, the Agents of the Imperium (from now on referred to as Agents) get a secret vote, and once again two contestants are place in the ring. All Battles are to the death. Players may used gold earned from kills, deaths of allies, or daily income to buy various items to enhance themselves, or to gather information. Players also have various "special abilities", unique to their character, which are of use for many purposes.


Characters:

Each character is given a certain number of stats, based in the realms of attack types, defenses, and weaknesses from a pool. Characters also receive one or more special ability unique to them, which can have one of many effects on the game. Customize your character with a back story, conquests, and whatnot, as it makes the game a more interesting place to be.

Character List:

Lady Luck (Niklas)
Man Hunter
Horseman (Neverwonagame3)
False Prophet
Necro-Master (kill fire)
Barbarian (choxorn)
Beast master
Dreamer (Catharsis)
Mutant (D'Artagnan59)
Risk Breaker (Rogueknight)
Holy Man (scungebian)
Carrion Feeder
Arachnid
Illusion (Stuck in Pi)
Shaman (taillesskangaru)
Amoeboid
Juggernaut (dcbandicoot)
Blood Brother (Izipo)
Overlord
Sadist
Vampyre (mythmonster2)
Spellsword (Methos)
Void Walker (LightFang)
Eidolon
Ronin (The13thRonin)
Sacred Fist (Pinman)
Shadow Dancer (Charles Li)
Shadow Stalker (merciary)
Planeswalker (Renata)
Were-beast (thomas.berubeg)
Drunker Brawler (Bris.)
True Believer
Æthermancer (BananaLee)
Mage Masher
Arcane Adept (sirtommygunn)
Illithid
Mentor (Chandrasekhar)
Warlock (Tasslehoff)
Forsaken (leeksoup)
Dirty Fighter


Stat list:

Magical
Divine, Elemental, Psionics, Nether, Illusion, Conjuration, Transmutation
Attack
Might, Unarmed, Projectile, Melee, Synergy, Feint, Speed
Defensive
Armor, Block, Counter, Dodge, Intuition, Deception, Regeneration



Day Cycles and Voting:

The day will last 48 hours, and the night will last 48 hours as well. Upon the start of each day, each living contestant will be granted 40 gold, plus ten gold per week (during the second week, each contestant will receive 40+20 or 60 gold). Each day, players will be allowed two votes for different characters (i.e. you cannot vote for yourself twice). The winners of this popular vote will fight in the arena at the end of the night. In lieu of a regular vote, one may also make a support vote, which effectively counts as a -1 to a players total vote count. All votes during this stage must be made publicly, and please bold your votes so I can easily find them for tallying. During the night, the Agents get a chance to vote via pm to me for 2 people to fight in the arena, this battle will occur at the end of the next day. Betting on the next cycle's fights should be done in bold red as well Team leader's votes count for an extra one tenth of a vote for tie breakers. Also, teammates can only be voted in the public vote to fight each other once every 3 days, so if teammates were voted to fight each other by the public daytime vote were to fight on day 1, there could not be voted another internal team conflict till day 4.

Battle:
In battle, character's stats are compared, and a winner is decided, or are they? There are numerous special abilities that will affect combat in unpredictable ways. The winner lives, and the loser dies. In case of a tie, the character who has the most potions of stamina will be victorious. The loser's gold is then redistributed. Half the decease's gold goes to the victor, while the remaining is evenly distributed to his or her team. An Agent's status will also be revealed upon his or her death as well. Once dead, all public posting and private messaging are strictly prohibited with living players about game details. Also, after three arena victories, a character's special ability will be upgraded.

Betting:

All betting amounts are final. As in you cannot go less then the amount you bet (you may increase it though), but you may change who you bet on. This will go into effect after the night one cycle. All bets must be at least 10% of your current gold pool as well.

Character Interactions:

You may gift gold at any time to any player with one exception via a PM to me. If you are slated to fight in an upcoming battle (finalized, not still in the voting stage) you will be unable to pass gold. Items are not passable. Characters will ALWAYS know who passes gold their way. Communications between players may be done publicly or privately .Keep in mind that it is frowned to directly quote private messages as they are private, as well as the fact that they are quite easy to fake as well.


Items

Potion of Stamina - 350
A slightly glowing blue potion used to give an extra oomph needed for those long drawn out battles. In the case in which stat comparison leads to a tie, the player with more of these potions will be the winner. These are consumable, but their value is still added to players net worth upon death.

Scanner - 600, 1000, 1400
This is the first piece of a 3 part scanner. Upon purchasing this, the player has the choice of weakness or defenses to scan. The first upgrade, costing an additional 1000, will provide both the defensive strengths and weaknesses of the target. The final upgrade, costing an additional 1400, reveals all stats of the target, including the attack types. One scan per day and one per night is allowed. At the 2nd and 3rd upgrades, you gain the ability to scan a special ability once per upgrade, so with a level 3 scanner, you would have a total of 2 ability scans, usable in lieu of a normal scan.

Token of Divination - 2000
A wooden coin leafed with silver. On one side, a small square inscribe inside a circle is engraved, and on the other, a pentagram. This one time use item will reveal whether the target is an Agent or is innocent. Only one token can be used per cycle. The value of this item is added to the total net worth of the user upon his or her death.

Crystal Ball - 6000
This nearly transparent ball of what seems to be glass is strangely heavy, almost as if made of lead. When used, it will divine the true nature of the target, if it is an Agent, or innocent, and is usable once per cycle.

Equipment - 400 + 1000 for each other piece of equipment purchased by the same person.
Various masters and weapon smiths fill the town surrounding the high consul of the Imperium, and any contestant is free to seek their services. It is possible to purchase either a new attack type or a new defense type from any of these tradesmen/teachers.

Candle of Truth – 3000
Consumable. Using this candle will determine the truthfulness of a single statement, either public post or PM. The cost of a used candle is added to a players net worth.

Orb of Mercy - 7500
This opaque white sphere seems lighter then a feather. If its bears should enter into a combat that would result in his or her demise, the orb of mercy would instead shatter, and the battle results in a tie. For betting purposing, the "winning" character is considered the winner, and the value of a consumed orb is added to the net worth of a player upon his death. In lieu of using an orb them self, a player can instead bestow the blessings of the orb on another. The user of an orb thus so would not be revealed, and the value of the orb will be added to the net worth of the user, not the receiver.

Orb of Vengeance - 7500
This dark black sphere seems to drain the light and warmth from the room, is heavier then its weight in gold. Should the bearer enter into a battle in which he or she would perish, this orb will shatter, and the victor would be slain also. This blessing may also be bestowed on another. The user remains a secret, and the net worth of the orb is added to the user in either case.


Teams

Team 1
1. taillesskangaru, The Shaman
2. Catharsis, The Dreamer
3. Kol.7, The Illithid
4. Renata, The Planeswalker
5. Rogueknight, The Risk-Breaker

Team 2
1. BananaLee, The AEthermancer
2. Niklas, Lady Luck
3. Pinman, The Sacred Fist
4. Tasslehoff, The Warlock
5. Methos, The Spellsword

Team 3
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

Team 4
1. neverwonagame3, The Horseman
2. scungebian, The Holy Man
3.
4.
5.

Team 5
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

Team 6
1. mythmonster2, The Vampyre
2. D'Artagnan59, The Mutant
3. choxorn, The Barbarian
4. kill fire, The Necro-Master
5. Leeksoup, The Forsaken

Team 7
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

Team 8
1. thomas.berubeg, The Were-Beast
2. LightFang, The Void Walker
3. The13thRonin, The Ronin
4. Chandrasekhar, The Mentor
5. Izipo, The Blood Brother

Unassigned:
Bris, The Drunken Brawler
merciary, The Shadow Stalker
Rheinmetall, The Overlord
sirtommygunn, The Arcane Adept
Charles Li, The Shadow Dancer
dcbandicoot, The Juggernaut
Stuck in Pi, The Illusion

Msn: majordorkus11451 At hotmail dot com just in case u have any questions and are lazy like me and don’t like waiting for PMs

Reserved Just in Case

And im greedy and need 2 places saved

Ready for Sign-ups

I'll be the Mutant.

I'll try the Horseman.

Were-Beast for me, and Drunken Brawler for Bris.

nice to see antoher of these up :)

Æthermancer in Team 2 please. :D
Dissensions is back again.. Haha

Sweet. I'll take Lady Luck please, and I would like to be on team 2.

Void Walker. I don't even know what that is. I'll take it. Also, put me on Team 8, as far away from Niklas as I can be. ;)

i'll be the SacredFist please. nice to see this up.

EDIT: I'll be on Team 2 please.

What benefits does one get for working as a team?

I'll be the Warlock, and I'll choose a team once I understand it.

EDIT: I'll be on Team 2. Reduce the chances of having to fight Niklas.

Drat it Niklas, that's the one I wanted! :p

I'll be a Planeswalker, then. I'd like to be on a team with someone(s) who know what they're doing, because I don't! But it sounds fun.

Signing up and I'd also like to be on Team 2. Maybe a Spellsword.

Tolis!!!! Where have you been?!

Forsaken!

Who else but the illustrious Ronin?

(Sign me up!)

Oh and I'll take Team Eight, I have confidence in LightFang.

I shall be the Mentor, in Team Eight as well.

Goody, Ronin's here. I won't have to yell at him overly much. ;)

Goody, Ronin's here. I won't have to yell at him overly much. ;)

Yell at me, what would you do that for :lol:? Yelling hasn't stopped my rampant destruction before :mischief:.

Good, I'll be the Blood Brother if you please.

And let's see, team 2 ? Team 8 ? Hmm, choices, choices.
Team 8 it is, Ronin my friend, it's time to kick ass.

I'll be in Team 4.

Team 2 looks awesome! A combat mage (Warlock), a diviner mage (Æthermancer), a priestly type (Sacred Fist), a fighter mage (Spellsword) and fate itself (Lady Luck) ;).

BananaLee, Tasslehoff, Pinman and Methos, good to have you! We're going to kick some Imperial arse, I know it! :D

Looks like we've got ourselves a full team, heehee.

Good, I'll be the Blood Brother if you please.

And let's see, team 2 ? Team 8 ? Hmm, choices, choices.
Team 8 it is, Ronin my friend, it's time to kick ass.

Oh the time has come alright ;).

Team Eight Line-Up thus far:

1. LightFang - Void Walker
2. The13thRonin - Ronin
3. Chandrasekhar - Mentor
4. Izipo - Blood Brother

I'd say if we can just get one more enthusiastic player on our side this'll turn out to be quite an interesting endeavor. Perhaps someone that be anti-magic combat inclined.

In the spirit of being the ever-plotting tactician and chaos causing extraordinaire that I am I'm going to begin leadership discussion now. If Izipo or Chandrasekhar want the leadership position then I think they're the best suited to it and will pledge my support accordingly, LightFang I'm assuming you probably won't want it (if I know you well enough) if I'm wrong then I'm sure you'd make a good leader too. If however the position is uncontested then I will gladly, gladly be the one to step up to the plate and throw our entire team into a position of almost certain death and dishonor that is the way of the Ronin. I'm interested to hear the thoughts of my teammates on this issue of leadership...

Shadow Stalker, and throw me in whatever team I'm needed in.

Team 8, please, if you'de like me.

@Tolis- thomas did not reserve the SacredFist for Bris. He reserved the Drunken Brawler for her.

No Tinker. :cry: Unless I used a very liberal definition of 'Beast Master', there isn't really any way to work her in, so I'll just bring back the old Shapeshifter from Ascension. But in the form of the Dreamer.

Team 1, if I may.

If however the position is uncontested then I will gladly, gladly be the one to step up to the plate and throw our entire team into a position of almost certain death and dishonor that is the way of the Ronin.

Sounds like fun, alright. :) Where do I sign ?

Whether I want it or not will depend entirely on the character I think up of, which will depend to a significant portion on the statistics that I receive. :p

Team 8, please, if you'de like me.

We'll have you any day thomas.berubeg!

Sounds like fun, alright. :) Where do I sign ?

Right here on the bones of our enemies... Try to not blotch the ink, it took me forever to arrange the skulls into an eye-pleasing extravaganza :lol:.

On the discussion of our team leader, I must say I'm a bit biased on that end. Niklas has been my team leader for SGOTM since I believe 2005 and done a great job, so he's obviously my pick. I know nothing or very little of Tass and Bannanna, so don't have a clue there. Pinman is a sadistic GM and would probably also make a great leader. I have no experience in this game, so I'm not a candidate.

Yes, it's here! I'll take the Vampyre on Team 6!

Methos, I don't think theres any real argument about who our team leader will be.

I support Niklas.

No, I refuse to hold a vote until the game actually starts. I hereby invalidate Pinman's vote. :p

a) You don't get a vote.

b) Good point, i'll quietly fade into the background.

Methos, I don't think theres any real argument about who our team leader will be.

I support Niklas.

I agree, 100%. But, we should wait until the game starts...

yes voting now will be of no effect. No one even knows who the agents are.... well i do but that doesnt count. Lets wait till the game starts up

Yoo-hoo, Tolis! I reserved the Dreamer, in case you missed it. ;)

{Could you update the team lists? It's quite hard to see what places are free just by reading the thread through. And you could add a list of people currently without teams at the bottom.}

I'll be the shaman. Just put me in any team.

I called the Shadow Stalker if you didn't catch it.

front page is updated

23 more.

Yay, I got the team all to myself!

Team 6 for the Team.

I'll bend over for the Holy Man :)

Yay, I got the team all to myself!

Quick, BANDWAGON THAT MAN!

I'll bend over for the Holy Man :)
Team 4

21 left, nearly 1/2 way there! :)

1/2 way is better than no-way
says the holy man while doing a My-childs Jonsin pose
"and the children smiled"

21 left, nearly 1/2 way there! :)

1/2 way is better than no-way

It is indeed, but the second half is much harder to fill up than the first half. It might soon be time to try advertising in other threads. (Also, welcome to CFC, scungebian. :D)

Tolis, you shirker, put merciary in the unassigned characters list! ;)

Once a team has lost at least one member, are defections to it allowed? Could make things more interesting...

(evil) Overlord

Ok, maybe I will give this a try. I'll take the Illithid, team one if I may.

not, team switching is not allowed at anytime through normal means.

And what would be good threads to advertise in?

I think drawing more NESers (http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=69) here would be a good idea. :D

I shall join Team 6, and be the Barbarian.

I'll join team 6 as Necro-master.

I will take the Arcane Adept. Any team is fine.

kill fire and choxorn on the same team? Don't try to kill each other!

I think drawing more NESers (http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=69) here would be a good idea. :D

Hell no... To NES players this wouldn't be just a game. The fun would get sucked out of it too. I voice my disapproval at such a suggestion.

Hell no... To NES players this wouldn't be just a game. The fun would get sucked out of it too. I voice my disapproval at such a suggestion.

I know, seriously, it's no fun playing with NESers like Lighty because they're from a different part of the forum. :mischief:

Hell no... To NES players this wouldn't be just a game. The fun would get sucked out of it too. I voice my disapproval at such a suggestion.

Don't overgeneralize, Mr I-haven't-been-here-in-a-year-but-I-still-know-everything-about-everybody.

Invite NESers. We need more players, so we go to where people are willing to play games on Forums.

25 to date, and i might be able to get Nahkarma and Bullshido back for this one, but i cant make ant promises.

I have to agree on bringing NESers here, some of them are pretty cool (and good roleplayers, too), the extremist ones won't come anyway, so there should be no harm.

LightFang maybe you could advertise in 'while we wait' ? I'd hate for Tolis to lose his zero postcount...

Izipo, who would consider extremists?

I disagree with bringing NESers in to fill the gaps. Except maybe as an absolute last resort. This game is based on FFH, go advertise for it in their forum. I wouldn't have thought this kinnd of game would interest most NESers anyway, not enough stats ;).

Izipo, who would you consider extremists?

I won't say any names because that's not necessary, but I have been watching their forum for a long while now, and let's just say that some personalities there have severely dampened down my enthusiasm for joining a NES.

But I enjoy lurking, so everything's fine.

(have a look at RiskNes (http://forumsbeta.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=274574) towards pages 10-11 and you'll have a nice example.)

EDIT : @Kol : good idea.

Izipo, I don't see anything that points to extremism, and absolutly no evidence of anti-this forum extremism.

Basically Never, there are some NESers that for some reason think we're inferior because our games are so much more fun and simple. Not all are like that but some are. They have very low opinions of us for some reason. I think i was reading in the while we wait thread about these certain people's plan to get rid of new NESers by ignoring them, spaming their NESes, ganging up on them and stuff like that. Do we really want people like that in our forum?

Oh yeah, and there was that whole fiasco about RFMK, how we shouldn't be allowed to have it because it was too much like a NES. Strangely, a few weeks later, DYON (draw your own nes) was started in their forum, something that was clearly not a NES at all and was in fact a complete copy of DYOS, a Forum game. They're such hypocrites.

You haven't considered the possibility they were diffrent group of NESers.

I didnt say they were all like that. I was talking about the ''extremists''. For example, Niklas is a NESer, is he like that? No. Even I've played in NESes from time to time, I'm not suggesting the whole lot of them is like that. Sorry if you got that opinion from me.

there are some NESers

Not all are like that but some are.

But if non-extremists started up DYON, then the extremists cannot be accused of hypocrisy, save perhaps for arguing it should have gone in Forum games. That would be, at worst, hypocrisy by inaction.

No they were arguing that it was a NES iirc. It doesn't matter now anyway, but I'm fairly sure it was Abbaddon who started the RfmK hate thread who then participated in DYON. I could be wrong though, and he did start up GuideNES so I dont think he's really one of the extremists. It really is just a few of them, not all. I guess if you really wanted you could get some in, but try to get alright ones. Besides dont you think you should ask Tolis first :p.

i leave it up to the players. I dont read the nes sections, so i have no idea what everyone is talking about. What it breaks down to is your game. I just run it so secrets can be maintained.

And this is the end of that. Please don't start the mess again.

I'll say it again : I'll gladly welcome any NESer that is willing to join.

So, some advertisement in 'while we wait' by Neverwonagame and Kol you could post in FfH maybe ?

I know that Izipo has declared it closed, and this isn't exactly the place for it, but I don't intend to ignite a firestorm here anyway - a bit of perspective from an NES'ing forum insider might actually defuse things a bit. Also, I'll be damned if I'll put all that typing I just did to waste. :PI won't say any names because that's not necessary, but I have been watching their forum for a long while now, and let's just say that some personalities there have severely dampened down my enthusiasm for joining a NES.
I hope I'm not one of them. ;)
(have a look at RiskNes (http://forumsbeta.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=274574) towards pages 10-11 and you'll have a nice example.)
I actually think that that particular NESer would be an excellent contributer to Forum Games, if he were to join. Sure, he might be whiney and irritable, but he also devotes 100% of his energy towards making each game as fun, interesting, and deep as possible. (Exibit A (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6915128&postcount=979) B (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6888311&postcount=952) C (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6544227&postcount=544) D (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6733885&postcount=818)) Note that that's a mere fraction of his contribution, and all to my NES - it's not even his primary work. Better to take one's games a little too seriously than to feel the apathy that must motivate the non-participation that has plagued Forum Games in the past.
Basically Never, there are some NESers that for some reason think we're inferior because our games are so much more fun and simple. Not all are like that but some are. They have very low opinions of us for some reason.
That may be due to the fact that we share this forum with a lot of much simpler games, which are basically just spam threads. I think that Night of the Werewolves is about as complex as Mafia games can get, and that's why it's been so successful. You need a certain degree of complexity to have a fun game, and I expect that most NESers haven't actually seen just how intricate Night of the Werewolves has become - just as I expect that most of you haven't taken the time to really see what a good NES can become.
I think i was reading in the while we wait thread about these certain people's plan to get rid of new NESers by ignoring them, spaming their NESes, ganging up on them and stuff like that. Do we really want people like that in our forum?
It wasn't as bad as you describe - there wasn't any organized conspiring, just a bunch of individual actions by exasperated NESers. And really, those newbies that they were speaking of really did deserve what they got.

Imagine if someone bumped 20 old forum games from more than a year ago with irrelevent posts or applications to sign up - repeatedly. Imagine if someone kept posting, over and over again, that they want to join a NotW in progress as a Russian leprechaun with an airship, or something nonsensical like that. I'm sure that we at Forum Games have our limit as well - eventually there would be ridicule voiced against these players, in some form or another. They might be having fun, but they'd be ruining everyone else's fun. You can't support that sort of thing.

But regardless, it's not a forumwide distaste, and it doesn't last forever, either. The player that you were probably reading about in the discussion you described has joined my NES, now, along with a couple others, and he's doing just fine. There's no conspiracy to keep newbies out of NESing.
Oh yeah, and there was that whole fiasco about RFMK, how we shouldn't be allowed to have it because it was too much like a NES.
Honestly, they probably just wished that more of us would join the NES'ing forum, rather than keep it a separate game here. A few weeks back, the NESers, almost unanimously (and with Symphony D. at the forefront of the effort), petitioned Thunderfall to have a forum in "Other Games" all to themselves, in order to be more prominent on the main page - to attract more new NESers. A lot of the GMs in the NES'ing forum want to play bigger games with more people, and so they want more people to join, to the point of actively seeking out new recruits. There's no conspiracy to keep newbies out of NESing.
Strangely, a few weeks later, DYON (draw your own nes) was started in their forum, something that was clearly not a NES at all and was in fact a complete copy of DYOS, a Forum game. They're such hypocrites.
Says the guy claiming that we shouldn't encourage NESers to join Forum Games because they're too elitist. :p

On that note, I'd love to have more Forum Gamers join my ChaNES: Into the Void.http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/1179/chanesmapmkiiuj5.jpgThe Europeans have some especially nice colonies that need governors. The well developed colony at Olympia is a hub of interstellar activity, and the player that takes it over will play a central role in the European Union's colonization efforts. Soyuz is on the edge of European space, and should have some interesting relations with the Indian colony of Hastinapur and the Brazillian one at Amazonas, not to mention the Russians' prized colony at Zenit and the independent extrasolar state of Bacchus. Tyrelia also has a planet of Earthlike quality, at a great distance from Sol, and the player that takes it over will have a unique opportunity to shape the valuable world to his will.

I didn't intend to make this post into an advertisement, but I'd just like to say that the Forum Gamers' desire to have more players from NES'ing is very much reciprocated. Both types of games have their place, and I intend to keep hosting mafia games here even as I NES. We all have the same purpose, after all - to have a good time.

Well, I haven't been in the forums for quite a while - but I know a number of NESers who are half-decent. In fact, of the 20+ NESers I know (knew?), I could probably only name 3 or 4 (2 of whom aren't around anymore) who are as described by other people in this forum.

Let's not forget that Lightfang, Niklas and I were from the NES forums.

Let's not forget that Lightfang, Niklas and I were from the NES forums.

Yes, we can thank the NES'ing forum for the brilliance that was the Girly Man. :D

Oh, my silly humour only came about when I left the NES forums - which were highly serious :p

Plus, if I recall Girly Man got killed - to death.

Oh, my silly humour only came about when I left the NES forums - which were highly serious :p

Plus, if I recall Girly Man got killed - to death.

In the first round, yes. ;)

Hmmmmm..... Since you offered I might join ChaNES after my exams are finished, at the week-end. Will have to read over the rules and stuff first though but it looks quite interesting from my quick look at the thread.

Hmmmmm..... Since you offered I might join ChaNES after my exams are finished, at the week-end. Will have to read over the rules and stuff first though but it looks quite interesting from my quick look at the thread.

:yup: I'm flattered to hear it. My NES is somewhat of a maverick (most Sci-Fi NESes crash and burn spectacularly, and I have a few unconventional plans for later in the storyline of Pinmanesque proportions), and I'd hope that it makes a fine standalone experience for anyone who's interested in it, but I also hope that it can act as a "gateway" to NES'ing for some of the excellent gamers in this forum. After all, if you dislike their community, the best way to change it is from the inside. ;)

Anyway, the deadline for this turn's orders is Friday, so if you join during the weekend, you'll probably only be able to send orders for the next turn. I could make an exception if you think you could send in orders during the weekend, but that's up to you.

Well Chand, I won't quote your post (because it's rather long), but I have to agree with most of it. btw, I've been paying particular attention to your game as of late, and I was just waiting for the new thread...

About Symph (since you named him) : He is special in many ways. First of all, of what I've seen of him, I hold him in high esteem for his dedication and imagination. Clearly this guy must be an hell of an amazing GM in a table top RPG. BUT, since he is so clearly above all of us, many of his posts make me cringe. A little bit of humility would go a long way to make him a perfect player.

So Symph, if you're reading this : Join a NotW and show us what you can do.

And also for the record, When I talked about NotW XXV : Armageddon in the NotW info thread, what I had in mind was a crossover NES-FG game. But first I need a NES rep, and this is where you (Chand) come into play... So, when is PreChaNES going to evolve in ChaNES ?

And to get back on topic : 40 players is unrealistic if we only recruit here, so it's not a question of 'must we advertise ?', it's 'where do we advertise ?' : And the NES forum is the perfect place.

@Chand: I will most likely have time to write orders on friday. What time is the deadline? I have an exam in the morning but Im free after that.

And also for the record, When I talked about NotW XXV : Armageddon in the NotW info thread, what I had in mind was a crossover NES-FG game.
Hey, I was actually having that idea as well. ;) There can be only one! We may have different concepts in mind for "crossover," though, so I'm eager to see what your product is. Consider mine a non-canon game set in virtually the same universe - I reserve the right to use a few minor tweaks to keep it interesting. ;)
But first I need a NES rep, and this is where you (Chand) come into play... So, when is PreChaNES going to evolve in ChaNES ?
I'd say that Pre-ChaNES is going to end near the end of the summer, and I'll have a short break from NES'ing to run my forum game before starting ChaNES proper.
And to get back on topic : 40 players is unrealistic if we only recruit here, so it's not a question of 'must we advertise ?', it's 'where do we advertise ?' : And the NES forum is the perfect place.
I agree. ;)
@Chand: I will most likely have time to write orders on friday. What time is the deadline? I have an exam in the morning but Im free after that.

Oh, I don't usually set a time of day for the deadline. I'm quite easy when it comes to such things. :p

I'm fine with advertising in the NES thread. I know there are a few elitist over that think we're scum, I know I engaged in light arguments with a few. But those people wouldn't be interested in coming over here and trying out our games.

I'm also fine with them copying some of our things, I see it we're cross influencing with each other, I mean we got RFMK off of them so what if they have DYON. We may end up with similar games on both sides but I feel that over here it's all about fun, while over there it's about strategy and rules, which I don't see this changing any time soon. So if the NES'ers want a break from all the rules I'll welcome them here as longs they don't preach to us or complain about the post count.

Just my two-cents.

The reason we don't like DYON is that they don't like RfMK.

Plus, thanks to a certain three mega-spammers, DYON turned to crap.

I didn't mean to start a Forum Games VS NES hate-fest fiasco (although most people who replied were most civil about it), I apologize.

Chandrasekhar I realize you are an avid NESer and you as you must know by now are one of the people I respect most on these forums. Not because you're a great game moderator or because you're intelligent, or because you put effort into making the forums a better place. You do all these things but the thing I most respect you for is indeed as Izipo pointed out, your humility, your lack of a need to trod upon the average player instead choosing to bring the best out in them. I know this because I was once the 'new guy'. I can tell you right now if it wasn't for Snakes and Foxes I probably wouldn't have stuck around here very long and then I wouldn't have met a huge cast of amazing people. I won't mention names because I'll surely forget someone deserving but you know who you are.

This place we have here, Forum Games, this is our place, this is a part of 'us' if you will. A motley crew of extraordinary individuals. And for a moment I forgot myself in the fearful thought that things might come crashing down around our ears. Chandrasekhar if I have learned anything from you it is that the open hand will achieve more than the closed fist ever will. I plan to adopt this outlook from this point forward. I say to you fine people, let us endeavor to continue to be an extraordinary place.

Plus, if I recall Girly Man got killed - to death.

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/2607/as7i6nj657k4jmywwo4poigod4.jpg

:p

Oh, but I refuse to advertise in the "While We Wait" thread. I just don't like advertising much. You'll have to excuse me, but I tend to use myself as a benchmark for things, and I tend to get annoyed when people advertise myself.

Edit: I just wanted to add, DYON was started by Nuclear kid [sic] whom I will say without any regrets is not exactly the brightest person ever. :p His NESes tend to have a history of being poorly thought out and pretty unrealistic.

Man, I missed a NES-discussion. :( Anyway, Tolis, you've put scungebian on the list of players without teams as well as in team 4, which might be a bit confusing.

As far as advertising goes, the only place I'm relatively active in apart from here and Off-Topic (No.) is CivUnited, and that only has about 5 active members at the moment (one of which is taillesskangaru, who is already here) so I'll be no help. The NES forum would be a good place, but I don't really see why they'd come here: they've got it good over there now that they've got their Other Games forum.

I'm active in both FGs and NESes, and any generalizations regarding the denizens of either is simply silly. There are NESers I wouldn't want in any games I play, just like there are FGers I don't want anywhere near me (who luckily stay away from the games here that I enjoy, for the most part). There are also really good people on both sides, and some of the best are active in both.

I might ask a few people from there to get over here. Some might even listen.

I'll join team 1 if they'll have me.

Times' up for me today: interested.

Like I said earlier I'm fine with bringing other people in as long they act civil and treat everyone with respect.

In other news, if anyone noticed my temporary disappearance (doubt it), I just got back from an Iron Maiden concert. Which afterwards has made everything seem dull and boring in comparison. Just felt like sharing;)

I just got back from an Iron Maiden concert.

They're still performing! I haven't heard from them since I was in school. :old: Now, how many people here have ever heard of them?

Yeah and they're planning on making a new album soon. I can't wait!

Now, how many people here have ever heard of them?

I do, still have their albums somewhere and 'Rhyme of the ancient mariner' is in my playlist. Had their posters in my room when I was a teenager.

So, if they're still playing, I'm not that old, am I ?
{but this is news, I thought they were long gone}

Iron Maiden Can't Be Stopped!!!:D
(I wonder how many get this)

Shadow dancer

I am intrigued by the Risk-Breaker. I have no idea what it could be, and thus secrecy may be my best weapon ;)

I shall join Team Number 1 as well if the slot is still free, as Catharsis is bound to come up with something awesome, Kol.7 is like a supersleuth, taillesskangaru i've seen in previous games and should be a good ally and Renata, its a pleasure to meet you.

Good to see you all again. Thanks for the PM Tolis.

I will however, be making it my goal to systematically kill party 8 one by one, as they are far too organised. Whichever of you is leader is going first :p

Rougeknight, I still remember you killing me in Snakes and Foxes. ;)

Then it is only fair that you get a re-match! Straight after I'm done with Team 8 :goodjob:

Rougeknight, I still remember you killing me in Snakes and Foxes. ;)

And you killing me in S+F.

Wait, I already got my revenge by exposing you as the Mark.

I never killed anyone. I died the first time I fought in S&F and S&F2.

I will however, be making it my goal to systematically kill party 8 one by one, as they are far too organised. Whichever of you is leader is going first :p

Oh it's on like Donkey Kong... :lol:

PS - When's this shin-dig starting?

How are we too organized? We have

1. A beast who can hardly type (sorry thomas but your lack of coherency annoys me sometimes);
2. A guy who doesn't even know who he is (really, I don't know what a "Void Walker" is.)'
3. A lonely wanderer who is bound to not cooperate with anything, being a lonely wanderer;
4. A teacher;
5. A homie.

Thanks for the vote of faith LightFang, I'll have you know that I can cooperate when needed to.

EDIT - As long as it involves some kind of chaos or misdeed...

im preety sure a void walker is kind of like a dimension hopper.

1. A beast who can hardly type (sorry thomas but your lack of coherency annoys me sometimes)

No problem, it annoys me too... Though not enough for me to really start caring... i mean, why proofread:mischief:?

Though, i'll have you know that i am among the best writers in my school... admittedly, though, i'm not speed typing while I write essays and the like... I'll do my best to improve.

Thanks for the vote of faith LightFang, I'll have you know that I can cooperate when needed to.

EDIT - As long as it involves some kind of chaos or misdeed...

It wasn't an insult to you insofar as just the idea of ronin in general. ;)

im preety sure a void walker is kind of like a dimension hopper.

Oh. That makes sense...well, I'll wait for the PMs.


Though, i'll have you know that i am among the best writers in my school... admittedly, though, i'm not speed typing while I write essays and the like... I'll do my best to improve.

Well, it should be easy! Just stop speed-typing and then slowly build up your skills at typing quickly yet coherently. :)

typeing coherently is overrated. I actually have an issue where my fingers dont keep up with my thoughts so i drop words and letters. I do all my write ups in OpenOffice now for the spell check.

Ill give it about a week more to see if anyone can dig anyone else up. I really dont want to run this at less then 40. It can run on any mulitple of 5, but the depth of the game sorta goes out of the window with more people, though why i cant explain.

And i will be willing to run up to 3 NPCs. Thus that puts us at a min of 10 people to hit my 40. Also, in a few days i will be pming stats. If you are REALLY curious, you can pm me first, but i just dont have the time to go through the whole list atm. My online game/world just went into closed alpha, so right now im running arround trying to get every computer i can arround the world connected to test server speed and stress tests. The server we have at the moment should be able to support about 1000 users, which is enough for a closed beta test which is a month or 2 away. This week gives me the time to catch up on some of that project, then my job will be mostly done, as im not on the debugging team.

Also, same rule applys for this one as my last one. Charater backgrounds and desciptions will be recommended after you get your stats. The better picture of a charater you can draw, the better i can make it fit your ideas, and also secrect voices/speeches will be recommended as there are mechanics in place to reward those who use them.

Tolis, you have a game? Link it so we can check it out. Closed alpha and all, I know, but maybe you can let your best buddies at Dissention in on the closed beta. ^.^

www.nihao3d.com
You are welcome to the beta test if you want. In fact if you guys sign up, ill even let you in one he first alpha, which right now is in sever times and stress tests.

There are a few things going on at the moment, so that might be why some people haven't signed up. Have you tried contacting:

Backwards Logic
Stuck in Pi
dcbandicoot
qoou
Frozen in Ice
.SinClaire.?

(or possibly Kaenash, reverend oats, J-man? and you know some users IRL, don't you? you mentioned Bullshido and Nahkarma. ethergar? Allysian_Fields? throwing out names and ignoring capital letters is fun)

Ooooo... Contact .SinClaire.

Fun bonus x2.

those 4 are out, nahkarma is too busy, and without him the others wont join. Ill send off the pm tho to the others. Thanks for the list. Lets cross our fingers and pray.

Edit: PMs Away!

Short an assassin, I'll jump in with juggernaut ;)

ah, I'm in. Illusion Hopefully I won't die as fast as NoTW XV.

How are we too organized? We have

1. A beast who can hardly type (sorry thomas but your lack of coherency annoys me sometimes);
2. A guy who doesn't even know who he is (really, I don't know what a "Void Walker" is.)'
3. A lonely wanderer who is bound to not cooperate with anything, being a lonely wanderer;
4. A teacher;
5. A homie.

Well, the fact that you even considered who was to be leader of your team before the game started does strike me as slightly organised!

However, I am going on the fact that all voting patterns at the outset of the game are completely illogical and fall into one of two patterns.

1) Jump on the first person/group of people who speak up.
2) Jump Hitti-Litti

Since Hitti hasn't joined this game, your team will have to do. (I'm just kidding, lets see what Tolis has cooked up for Risk-Breaking first)

The way I'm going however, I will have a long list of Vendettas, Nemisis' and Sworn Enemies before I even start my fight.

If any of you would like to write into your background that the Risk-Breaker

-Killed your father
-Dishonoured your clan
-Destroyed your village
-Once failed to hold open a door for you
-Ate the last slice of Pizza
-May have indirectly or directly ruined your childhood by any of the above means or more.

Please feel free, the more the better! :mischief:

That Damn Risk-breaker! Gave Me lycanthrope... Now i'm a were-mouse!

Ooooo... Contact .SinClaire.

Fun bonus x2.

I think she'd be interested, but she hasn't been online in awhile. Maybe she'll be able to fill in for an NPC if she gets back midgame.

Also, I'd like to report that while the Mentors' Union was on strike, the Risk Breaker took my job. :(

-Killed your father


Cue corny Star Wars parody:

"The Ronin never told you what happened to to your father."

"He told me enough! He told me you killed him, and ate his pizza!"

"No. I am your father!"

"No... That's not true... That's impossible!"

"Search your feelings and look at the Orb of Divination. You know it to be true!"

"NOOOOOO.... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!"

"You can destroy Tolis. He has forseen this. It is your destiny."

"Join me, and we can win the game as father and son!"

"I'll never join you! I already joined team 7!"

*makes the massive effort of not kicking choxorn's character where the sun dont shine over and over again*

That was so bad it made me smile.

Cue corny Star Wars parody:

"The Ronin never told you what happened to to your father."

"He told me enough! He told me you killed him, and ate his pizza!"

"No. I am your father!"

"No... That's not true... That's impossible!"

"Search your feelings and look at the Orb of Divination. You know it to be true!"

"NOOOOOO.... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!"

"You can destroy Tolis. He has forseen this. It is your destiny."

"Join me, and we can win the game as father and son!"

"I'll never join you! I already joined team 7!"

Epic, EPIC win for you sir.

Few more days left of sign ups, after my first class of the day,. ill work on sending out stats and such.

I demand... ask... demandask to be placed on team 6!

RfMK, UNITE!

When do we start on writing backstories?

Now, as soon as i put the thread up :)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=6948455#post6948455

Here you go. Have fun :)

When's the proper game thread going up?

If it goes up before all the characters are taken, the stats might not be balanced.

The Ronin tires of this waiting.

@ Catharsis, actaully, it wont be too much of an issue. Chand ran SnF with 6 stat types, im running it with 7, lowering the chance that there would be totally impossible matchups.

Also, even if some stats are more common then others, the fact that you dont know what they are sort of ballances it in it self.

The game will be up in a few days. Just waiting for any last min people.

I'll be the Amoeboid

I'll be the Amoeboid

OOC: Please pick a team. It is preferable that you distance yourself from all the people whom I will leave bested, face down in the dust of the arena...

On second thought... Maybe not joining a team was a smart move after all... :)

Ronin, if I remember right that ego of your's has a habit of getting yourself killed. You might want to keep it in check this time. ;)

Ronin, if I remember right that ego of your's has a habit of getting yourself killed. You might want to keep it in check this time. ;)

OOC: It's just my 'game' ego. I like to put on a face, keep things interesting, play the anti-hero a bit. In reality I have the utmost respect for all the members here and am of the belief that in all probability I will be the first person killed! But like I mentioned before, I'd rather sacrifice myself if it makes the game that little bit more interesting ;).

OOC: Oh I know it's your in game ego, but it still doesn't change the fact that it has a habit of putting you in a few interesting situations.

Team 6 is the coolest.

In part because everyone here, except Leeky is in middle or going into high school. Yay kids/preteens/whatever you call us!

We prefer the term "losers" for yur kind of people :p

kill fire is in 6th grade going into middle, you, me, and D'art are in 8th grade going into high, and Leeky is done with school.

OOC: Oh I know it's your in game ego, but it still doesn't change the fact that it has a habit of putting you in a few interesting situations.

Interesting is an..interesting word to describe it, but it's always amusing. :)

kill fire is in 6th grade going into middle, you, me, and D'art are in 8th grade going into high, and Leeky is done with school.

I'm at what you Americans would call college (tertiary education).

Call it university, mate. Them Americans should learn proper English :p

I had friends in Canada who became offended when I said she was in college. Apparently college in Vancouver is a "lesser" school and is considered insulting.

Wow, I'm in with a bunch of middle-schoolers (or slightly post)? I guess I'm the really lame and/or creepy guy who hangs out at the jr. high, then.

>.>

<.<

Well, college is another term for upper high school. In the old days, it could also mean a part of a university (e.g. Christ's College, Oxford or Auckland College, University of New Zealand) as well as a vocational institute

There's a simple technical difference. A university provides higher education across the whole range from undergraduate to doctoral. A college only provides undergraduate education, or in some cases postgraduate education in some specific fields. So yes, a university is certainly more prestigious than a college in general.

Then again, colleges with a particular focus area can win a lot of prestige within that area. I am myself a PhD student in computer science in a "technical" college, and it's definitely top-2 in prestige in Sweden (and the other competitor for the top spot is a college too).

Re: Tolis' game....

not bad Tolis :)

Two thumbs up, and the other one too when I can get this damned zipper unstuck.

I've joined it think you others should too.

Unlike the fun that we are having here...
Tolis' baby is similar but in 3d.
See you there, unless your graff-card aint man enough lol.
(flaunting my 2 ATI crossfire cards hmmmm, lovely aren't they)

Tolis.....How do I get out of the Dark Lands dude?
Can't find the damned portal anywhere....grrrr.
I know the game aint meant to be simple but come on....

oh....and will the testers get some free stuff when its fully launched?
C'mon buddy.....huh....buddy, best friend an' all :)

Apologies on digressing....
anyways when this game gonna be launched?

Wow, I'm in with a bunch of middle-schoolers (or slightly post)? I guess I'm the really lame and/or creepy guy who hangs out at the jr. high, then.

>.>

<.<

well, i'm going into my senior year of high school, so, we're not too far apart...

There's a simple technical difference. A university provides higher education across the whole range from undergraduate to doctoral. A college only provides undergraduate education, or in some cases postgraduate education in some specific fields. So yes, a university is certainly more prestigious than a college in general.

Then again, colleges with a particular focus area can win a lot of prestige within that area. I am myself a PhD student in computer science in a "technical" college, and it's definitely top-2 in prestige in Sweden (and the other competitor for the top spot is a college too).

I'm at a university but I'd readily spit on anyone who started using words like prestige. People who are truly intelligent do not need to prove their alleged superiority through 'prestige' or the quashing of other peoples beliefs. In some cases, the smarter you are, the more you think you know and the more you think you know, the stupider you end up becoming.

Not to say that you're one of those people Niklas or that my response was targeting you... Just that your comment innocently awakened a whim of mine to share something with the wider community. I give you the benefit of the doubt (as I do to all people) that you think you're no better or worse than the average Joe, Tom or ZucklanderMcPhee.

I'm at a university but I'd readily spit on anyone who started using words like prestige. People who are truly intelligent do not need to prove their alleged superiority through 'prestige' or the quashing of other peoples beliefs. In some cases, the smarter you are, the more you think you know and the more you think you know, the stupider you end up becoming.
Seems you have bad experiences. There is absolutely nothing wrong with prestige, but like all things it can be abused. Prestige is not about proving alleged superiority - it's simply a measure of the attraction the site has on researchers. A prestigious university will draw top researchers and students, and will as a result generally generate more top results that will feed the prestige even further. That's a simple law of nature, no matter how much we may or may not like it.

People who are truly intelligent and end up at prestigious sites do not need to use prestige to prove their worth. Their results will speak for themselves. Prestige is just a side-effect. In many cases, the smarter you are, the more intelligent an environment you end up in and thus the smarter you end up becoming. You claiming otherwise is just silly.

Now, to get to what I think is your real point - "intelligence" as defined by the skills you need to be a successful student or researchers is in no way a measure of anything other than intelligence. Being more intelligent doesn't make you "superior" to others, and it certainly doesn't give you the right to look down on other people. All men and women are born equal, and have equal rights to respect. But to say that everyone is equally good at everything, that's obviously not true, and has nothing to do with the former.

Not to say that you're one of those people Niklas or that my response was targeting you... Just that your comment innocently awakened a whim of mine to share something with the wider community. I give you the benefit of the doubt (as I do to all people) that you think you're no better or worse than the average Joe, Tom or ZucklanderMcPhee.
I know I'm intelligent and good at what I do, and that I'm far better at that than most people. Just like any professional is better than "average Joe" in his chosen field. That doesn't make me feel "superior" to others, or feel I have the right look down on others.

But I must say that your comments leave me with a bad taste. Why would I not be allowed to think I am more intelligent than most? I know that to be to true, just as I know I'm worse than most in other areas of life. What's wrong with that? I hope you didn't really mean that.

Re: Tolis' game....

Two thumbs up, and the other one too when I can get this damned zipper unstuck.

I've joined it think you others should too.

Unlike the fun that we are having here...
Tolis' baby is similar but in 3d.
See you there, unless your graff-card aint man enough lol.
(flaunting my 2 ATI crossfire cards hmmmm, lovely aren't they)

oh a reply to myself....
as oddly boring that is.....

guys / girls (if any)
do come and join Tolis' game
so when I kill you, I can look at the fear in your eyes


(ETERNALLY EVIL LAUGH)

And the Holy Man bows his head in prayer.

Niklas, what is it you do?

scungebian, quit the spam. :)

Wow, I'm in with a bunch of middle-schoolers (or slightly post)? I guess I'm the really lame and/or creepy guy who hangs out at the jr. high, then.

>.>

<.<

Yeah I kinda feel the same way. It's rather disturbing when you think about it. :(

same...

Merciary, what greade are you in?

The Holy Man attains to full spiritual power and screams....

Banana is a KIWI !!!!!

hahaha and a J.A.F.A to boot.

What is the world coming to when a guy leaves his country on the great spiritual journey of life and bumps into a home-towner?

Hello B....let me introduce myself,
Fellow Kiwi....dying in the heat of China's summer :)
wow I have to admit I was stunned when I saw the Dolo pic.
I used to have a Herald hahaha
ripped the roof off it and made in a convertible :)

But I must say that your comments leave me with a bad taste. Why would I not be allowed to think I am more intelligent than most? I know that to be to true, just as I know I'm worse than most in other areas of life. What's wrong with that? I hope you didn't really mean that.

There is no need for anyone to be better at anyone else at anything. It's a sad product of our modern society that we feel that we have to be. I bleed red... You bleed red. We are equal in the sense that we are both people. The fact that you might be smarter than me and I might be better at making ham and pickle sandwiches than you is no different to a difference of skin color, such as if you were black and I was white or vice versa.

People who think they are better than another group of people for something tend to be a lot like racists. They follow the same line of logic. I have this, you do not have this, therefore I am better and because I am better I have more rights than you and so on and so forth. There's no need for that.

I'm kind of a hypocrite for speaking out as I am the first to admit I am 'better' at certain things than other people. But I that doesn't mean I have to like myself for it. Theoretically there is no 'worse' or 'better' way of doing something. Just 'different' ways. You feeling me on this or are we on two different wavelengths here? I'm not having a go at you I hope you know.

same...

Merciary, what greade are you in?

I just graduated, I'm going to Ohio State this fall.

Ronin, you're not getting Niklas's point.

Smarter =/= Better.

Ronin, you're not getting Niklas's point.

Smarter =/= Better.

There are some people who think so. I speak to them. The people who rave about how God is a lie, logic is the supreme truth yadda, yadda. If they truly believed that they wouldn't need everyone else to agree. You know?

SPAM !!!!

who, where?

let me at the buggr

hahaha

Please stop. Things like what you are doing is what often make non-forum gamers think all do is spam so for the decency of our beloved little part of the forums I would like for you to stop now. This may be your last kind warning (depending on what others would like to say)

Oh this also gives me the excuse to use this: :nospam:

Ronin, I hear what you say, I understand exactly where you're coming from, and I totally agree, and I also don't agree at all.

The problem lies in the use of the word better. You use it in two different ways, and mix them up. Either better can be used to mean more skilled or more apt at some particular task, or better can be used to mean more worth. When you and I say that no man is better than any other, we mean the latter. But then you mix it up with the former by involving intelligence.

There is also a clear difference between a subjective "better" and an objective "better". History is full of cases where people have tried to assert that some subjective "better" implies more worth (race, skin color, form of genitals, size of genitals, length of beard, proper faith, etc). People who claim such things are simply stupid and probably didn't get enough love as kids.

Then there is the objective "better", i.e. the kind where you have a fixed set of criteria and can scientifically prove that one person is better than another (run faster, lift more weight, score better on maths test, etc). Of course there are no hard truths here either, it all depends on how the criteria are set up (how do you measure how fast you are? Over 40 meters, or 1000 meters, or 42195 meters? etc). These things are provably true, and trying to deny them is simply silly. But, very important, being objectively better at any particular such task, or even some global set of tasks, is no more an indication of worth than the silly subjective definitions. If I'm smarter than you, for some definition of smart, it doesn't mean I have more rights than you or that what I do with my life is better than what you do with yours.

So, I totally agree with you, no man or woman is "better" (more worth) than any other, regardless of whether they are smarter or faster or have larger toenails. All men and women are equal, and there aren't some that are more equal than others.

But, I totally disagree with you, there are definitely people who are "better" (more skilled) than others at particular things. I'm much better at playing Civ than you are. So what? That doesn't mean I should get more votes than you in a democratic election, or whatever silly thing people can cook up.

The reason I feel so strongly about this is that opinions like yours do nothing but muddy the waters. There are people who are better than others at doing particular things. If you can't sing, don't bother to try to become a pop artist (ok, bad example). If you're in a wheelchair from birth, you will never be a good firefighter. If you aren't the sharpest tool in the shed, you won't do a PhD in maths.

The people who claim that some subjective "better" implies more worth can be laughed away as simply being silly, since they have no way to prove anything (though they can sure make peoples' lives miserable in the process). The people who claim that some objective "better" implies more worth are harder to laugh away, but it's still impossible for them to prove that they are right. But if you give them the chance to argue about something they can prove, you're only helping them along. And if you argue that no one is more intelligent than any other, it's them that can laugh at you and easily prove that you're wrong. And they have won, because you bring the fight to their home turf. That's why I bother to argue this with you in the first place, because this is important. Those who would supress others for whatever reasons all to often resort to some claims that some ability or other imply more worth. It's important not to let them bring the discussion to that level, since they actually have a chance to win there. Don't let them.

As a concrete example, this is how the discussion of men's worth over women is often done. Men are stronger, therefore they are better (oh really?). Men have better spatial thinking, therefore they are better (at reading maps perhaps, but so what?). And then you can start hyperboling with claims like men are more intelligent than women (for some definition of intelligence perhaps, but there are just as many definitions where women would be found better).

I hope I get my point across this time. My whole point is that a discussion about people's worth should never involve any specific abilities, since they are completely different things. Don't you agree?

:agree:

@Tolis: Do you have any idea when this is going to start? Also are the character backgrounds important? I have no real inspiration for a story about my character, I mean what the hell? I looked it up on wikipedia and its some sort of octopus man. :rolleyes: :lol:.

I am Canadian, and I will tell you that there is a big difference here between College and University. The latter deals with more theoretical knowledge, while the former is more practical skills based.

There is a huge difference, but I won't inject my political views into this discussion.

Hello B....let me introduce myself,
Fellow Kiwi....dying in the heat of China's summer :)
wow I have to admit I was stunned when I saw the Dolo pic.
I used to have a Herald hahaha
ripped the roof off it and made in a convertible :)

Were you that guy who was selling it on TradeMe a while back? With the bare metal respray and all?

So, I totally agree with you, no man or woman is "better" (more worth) than any other, regardless of whether they are smarter or faster or have larger toenails. All men and women are equal, and there aren't some that are more equal than others.

Whoah, hold on a moment here. I agree with many of your points here, but this one rubs me the wrong way. What about a serial murderer and/or rapist that's never done an honest day's work in all his life? You may think that sapience entitles one to equality with all other sapient beings, but I'd say that sapience comes with a responsibility to your fellow sapient beings, and it's that which you must be judged by.

working on the game post as soon as this is posted, game will be up in a few hours.

@kol
ypu to you, but people who get into charater have a tendancy to live longer then others, and there may or may not be benifits to posting a back story. Its just more fun.

FYI: Illithid (also known as mind flayers) are an underground dwelling creature with incredible inteligence and the ability to totally control other creatures, sentient or not. The feed off the brains of other creatures that share their enviroment, and are governed by a gigantic brain mass known only as the overmind, and communicates telepathically with them.

ScungebianPlease stop. Things like what you are doing is what often make non-forum gamers think all do is spam so for the decency of our beloved little part of the forums I would like for you to stop now.


If you actually believe I was spamming then my goodness you dont read well do ya.
You do understand the English language; am I correct?

So if I said I was thirsty, you'd say I advertising for Coke
And if I replied to the student's post (which is more further removed than mine) then I must be working for the child welfare system.
?????

Look kid I have been an English teacher for "like" six years and I was building these toys you access the internet with probably before you were born.

So I know for a fact my words do not indicate Stoopid Prix Avoid Machines

but hey little buddy if you think that is what i said...
and in all proper english and forum standards,
commenting a reply is not an argument for Siksually Protect Against Morons

go ahead have your little ejac to the group.
Because you completely missed the humour of it all.
and an ejac. is probably all you could ever achieve.

now you can complain about me lol I'll be happy about that

Tolis dude, sorry I'm outta here.
I cannot believe this arrogant little twirp is riding my leg like a poodle with a bad sense of direction.

Warned! - Flaming

To Banana....

No was a long time ago B

I haven't been in New Zealand for many years.
But damn its good to know some kiwis are getting into some cool stuff lol
Good to see you here :)

@Niklas: Was that an intentional quote of Animal Farm? :p

@Chand: And the serial killer is better at killing people. [joke]

@scungebian: If you don't recognize that your posts are nothing more than spam, you obviously need help understanding the definition of the word.

I agree Niklas. You're post was enlightening. I am glad I made the initial comment now. I was worried you would perceive it as an attack on yourself or something and then we'd end up in a flame war.

Although I found the muddying the water comment a bit on the raw side... Sometimes people have unclear opinions and take opportunities such as this to refine or change them.

Ok well I'll see what I can do with a back story then. I might be a while though.

Hello all! I new here, but am told how good forum games are and I "HAVE TO TRY THIS NOW!!!" So i am here. May sign up as sadist?

Assume that answer is yes, what is next step for me?

Whoah, hold on a moment here. I agree with many of your points here, but this one rubs me the wrong way. What about a serial murderer and/or rapist that's never done an honest day's work in all his life? You may think that sapience entitles one to equality with all other sapient beings, but I'd say that sapience comes with a responsibility to your fellow sapient beings, and it's that which you must be judged by.
Now that's of course a discussion topic all on its own, and I deliberately didn't bring things like this into the mix, since how you would perceive it is rather subjective. From a decidedly humanistic point of view, there are no exceptions to the rule. A serial killer may be a person with a psychotic disorder who is more in need of help than a lethal injection (help that it's not obvious that we have enough knowledge to be able to provide, but does that mean we shouldn't even try?). Such a person may be less worth in many contexts, such as not being trusted to walk the streets freely, but does that make them unconditionally less worth as human beings?

I'm not saying I disagree with you, but there are many who would. This is rather something I myself am not sure where I stand on, it's an issue I all too often debate with myself, and sometimes with others too. But I'm not sure we should take that discussion here, poor Tolis has suffered enough. ;)

But as for the line you bolded in particular:
@Niklas: Was that an intentional quote of Animal Farm? :p
... yes, exactly. ;) (or a paraphrase rather, but still.)

I agree Niklas. You're post was enlightening. I am glad I made the initial comment now. I was worried you would perceive it as an attack on yourself or something and then we'd end up in a flame war.
I know you too well by now to know that you never truly mean any harm with anything. I admit I was a bit frustrated with a few of the things you wrote, but I wouldn't have seen it as an attack on myself. And in any case I too am glad you made that initial comment now, and I hope others will learn something from it too. :)
Although I found the muddying the water comment a bit on the raw side... Sometimes people have unclear opinions and take opportunities such as this to refine or change them.
And it speaks very highly of you that you are that kind of person. One of my favorite quotes of all times is by John Steinbeck: "The ability to think differently today than yesterday is what separates the wise from the stubborn". Far too many people are stuck in their own thinking. My apologies for the raw comment, I certainly didn't mean to offend you. My comment wasn't really supposed to be edged towards you in particular any more than your comments were aimed at me. This is more of a general problem with the debate as conducted, well, everywhere. I'll blame a general frustration at all the people who are not wise enough to understand the importance of these issues. Thanks for listening. :)

Hello all! I new here, but am told how good forum games are and I "HAVE TO TRY THIS NOW!!!" So i am here. May sign up as sadist?

Assume that answer is yes, what is next step for me?

When TOlis sends you your stats, write a back story in that thread.

welcom to Forum Games.

Welcome to CFC Forum Games, KittoKittoAsa! [party]

For the sake of those who like me don't check the Forum Games index, the game thread is now up here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=280209).

Tolis, you can send me the salary later for doing your work. :p

*tolis gifts niklas 1/2 a gold* here you go mate :)

God! I accidentally deleted my character PM during my cleaning... may you please send me a replacement? Thanks!

Speaking of PM's, I believe there is one that you need to send me in the next few hours...