View Full Version : Nuke in the demo


Ferrum Rex
Jun 10, 2008, 01:26 PM
nukes in the demo are very possible

http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18076

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XOuXD053sU

I came close once and had begun the manhatten project, but the turns ran out. I wish i could remember how. It was a special type of free tech, that evidently was geared towards nukes or modern age techs.

edit:looking at an older post Oxford Unviersity springboarded me to the Manhatten Project.

ArmpitofDoom
Jun 10, 2008, 01:31 PM
How is this even possible?? I couldn't even build the great wall wonder last night after multiple tries. Even switched workers to production and was building in a city with a plethora of hammers.

Also, the demo seems to be going faster for me for some reason. Maybe it's just a fact of time flying. I just have a hard time believing that they could end up with a nuke in that limited time frame.

Krikkitone
Jun 10, 2008, 03:13 PM
Well there are a few key points

1. Oxford-> gives an advanced tech (I did have a game where it opened up the Manhattan Project, but it was a bit late to actually build it)

2. There is a MAJOR benefit to a big city

Population Not working tiles each produces 1 hammer and from 0-5 trade (based on population)... so with a major population city, and a trade/gold producing Wonder you might be able to produce enough gold and hammers to rush it

Ferrum Rex
Jun 10, 2008, 04:07 PM
How is this even possible?? I couldn't even build the great wall wonder last night after multiple tries. Even switched workers to production and was building in a city with a plethora of hammers.

Also, the demo seems to be going faster for me for some reason. Maybe it's just a fact of time flying. I just have a hard time believing that they could end up with a nuke in that limited time frame.

with this new map the easist way for me was to build a warrior army right off the bat, try like hell to get the first guy to the two closest barb camps, while building the other two. Then make direct attacks with the same army on the Aztecs, Greeks, and Zulu. I was lucky enough to get this done first try aswell. you can ignore the romans/egyptians(simple enough to work with both) and concentrate on devolping a few great cities, as opposed to the new theme of one great city.

vale
Jun 10, 2008, 04:26 PM
Well there are a few key points

1. Oxford-> gives an advanced tech (I did have a game where it opened up the Manhattan Project, but it was a bit late to actually build it)

2. There is a MAJOR benefit to a big city

Population Not working tiles each produces 1 hammer and from 0-5 trade (based on population)... so with a major population city, and a trade/gold producing Wonder you might be able to produce enough gold and hammers to rush it
Without a doubt this (big city) is the way to do it.

I can consistently finish the tech tree and pick up oxford and atlantis. But I haven't gotten the tech for Manhattan Project out of it yet. (It appears to be random).

I have also built Oxford on occasion and received nothing (maybe if it was going to give me the Apollo program tech it cancels it because that would be a huge problem for the demo if someone could get the entire tech tree that way).

ArmpitofDoom
Jun 11, 2008, 11:38 AM
I was watching the video posted about building the nukes. Now when you guys are referring to a major city, is it joining settlers in the city that increases the population quickly? I played about 4 rounds last night playing around with changing productions in cities, and I have been trying to build more cities that are more close in distance so they can share resources. I'm not the best Civ player, but I'm learning. :)

The Turkinator
Jun 11, 2008, 02:21 PM
I got within 44 turns of the Manhattan project, I tried to rush it with 693 gold and 8 hammers in the city. I think it can be done though.

Krikkitone
Jun 11, 2008, 05:25 PM
Cities that are close in distance can't really Share resources.. a tile can only be worked by one city

However, multiple small cities is useful because of
1. no city maintenance
2. no courthouse needed to work nearby tiles
3. no 'maintenance'
4. in the demo a city starts at a population of 2 at least

My best setups are with the Romans where every city has at least one Grassland/Fish and one Forest/Ironhill

These mini cities can pump out settlers and send them to a major city

By finishing the Hanging Gardens in Rome when it hits 20 pop, I am able to get 2 cities to pop 31 by the end of the game (and could probably have 3, because I usually stop making settlers at that point)

I think the "mass increase" in population is the primary way to go (even if you don't do it with lots of little cities)

In a Big city, your population unit can get about 1 resource and 2-3 trade each... and they get the bonuses of any buildings/Wonders you built in that city

so comparing one city of pop 30 (and 13 supporting of pop 2) to 14 of pop 4 you are going to do better with the former in terms of trade and production primarily due to buildings... It does cost a significant amount of production for the Settlers (Ghandi's 1/2 price Settlers) and you need republic to do it so that it doesn't cost to much population

Take all the boosting buildings that the major city has, and (for a minor city) consider whether it would be cheaper to build settlers to move to the major city OR to build the building here

Assuming Minor city = pop P
Cost of Settlers= 20
Cost of "booster" buildings= N

You can either build the Settler, OR build the Booster buildings
The booster buildings increase the output of the whole small city P* booster benefit; cost= N
The Settler increases the output of only one 'pop unit' 1* booster benefit; cost= 20

Once a city's pop P > N/20
then it starts making sense to build buildings and grow that city instead of siphoning it off to the major city (alter numbers some based on the yield that tiles actually give in this city)
Given that Booster buildings would at Least include Library+University OR Market+Bank (and Temple, Cathedral, and Factory) the

For a Non Republic the cost is not only 20 resources, but ?? food (the amount needed to grow a second new pop that is lost) and since Food cannot be generated by a super large city (only trade and hammers) the Food cost is significant.

This means that Code of Laws is a key tech to go for early game (it is the first government available and a good one for early game)


The only potential down side is that
1. In the demo, and possibly in the game, there is a limit as to big a city can get with settlers or other artificial pop boosts like Hanging Gardens or Irrigation first; a city can only get to 31 (it may be able to Naturally grow afterwards, but that is VERY slow)

2. Once a mega city gets beyond about 36 or so, extra population wouldn't yield that much (extra pop adds 1 resource and about 0-1 trade at that point)

Because of the above, you can't just have one megacity, you want to have multiple ones, and every city that become a mega city shouldn't have been producing settlers, because that is a waste.

Probably you can get to between 2 and 5 mega cities in a normal game depending on difficulty level and land that you have (was able to start on a third on the chieftan demo) . So it might help to have them chosen before you start mass producing mega cities. (so the mega cities can build booster buildings/units/wonders)

Of course as the game gets later, a better use of those hammers instead of building settlers is to turn into units... ether for selling to help you get the Economic win/Rush Wonders+buidings in the mega cities for Cultural win, or do battle for the Domination win... or just to keep you safe from the AIs

Which means that Republic is probably best as an early-mid form of government, that its probably worth going through to set up your mega cities, and then going to Communism/Democracy/Fundamentalism to get the victory you want towards the late game.

This also means that with at least one Megacity being a probably good idea, the ICBM sounds pretty decent.... taking a pop 30-40 city to 1 (or 0) would be incredibly difficult to come back from.

war ensemble
Jun 11, 2008, 06:25 PM
I came within 8 turns of getting the nuke, and ran out of time. It's definitely possible. I hadn't even chosen a specific tech tree to research, I was just picking what I liked while getting A LOT from other countries. I noticed that if you research mostly scientific technologies, it is easy to buy/extort military technologies out of the other civs. My plan was: capture Tenochtitlan as soon as possible, then follow this up with capturing the barbarians until you have a ninja warrior army, then attacking Athens directly. Contact with the Zulus brought me Horse riding, bronze working, iron working, pottery, currency, and construction. After getting enough things, I got university. I didn't notice until very late through that I could build something to get me a great tech. Once I did it I got the Manhattan Project and changed to communism. I just missed it though. I still had submarines, battleships, cruisers, cannons, and a bunch of other things to fight against the egyptians with though. I tried this with the Romans.

P.S. Steal as many great people as possible! I was very close to getting that Great Person that lets me finish my current tech, it would've really helped a bit earlier.