View Full Version : Economics Win Guide/complete walkthrough (demo)


RemoWilliams
Jun 13, 2008, 12:20 AM
Edit: The basic strategies outlined below are still sound, but the step-by-step walkthrough will not work, because the map changes every week. Many good points are made in the thread below, and I plan to write a new article/guide to the economics win, soon, using that, plus everything I've learned. Stay tuned!

Thanks to Vale in the 2k forums for the general idea. (see his post here: http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18056&page=3)

I will now lead you in a step-by-step guide to achieving an economics win in the demo. The map changes once a week (if my information is correct), so this guide only applies directly to this week's map. However, the general information contained herein should allow you to win economics on any map, against the AI, at least. I'll give an overview of what I'm doing as I'm doing it.

Keep in mind, you may get different rewards from the barbs (I think?). It's okay, just follow the general strategy in that case. Kill Monte as fast as you can, get a settler out for a second city, and pump out settlers as fast as you can to Rome.

Start a single player match, Chieftan difficulty, as the Romans.

First, we need to wipe out Monte! Also, we need to get a settler factory going. With Monte's capital, and the one you build, you'll have two. You'll only have 3 cities throughout the entire game.

4000 BC: Move your warrior north 3 squares

3700 BC: Attack the dirty barbarians. Rush another warrior at your capital. Send him on his journey, to end up one square east of Teno.

3600 BC: Rush another warrior. Send him to the same spot. Send your third warrior to the same spot, as well. Accept peace.

3400 BC: Build settlers in Rome. Rush the settlers. Send them 3 squares north, and one square east of Rome.

3300 BC: Manage your workers in Rome. Either select science, or manually choose one worker for science, one for food. Heal the warrior who has arrived at his destination in Teno. Found your new city with your settler. Call it Pompeii (because I'm going to, for the rest of the guide).

3200 BC: Build settlers in Pompeii.

3000 BC: Form a warrior army at the hill at Teno. Attack!

2900 BC: Attack again!

2800 BC: Attack again, for the win (I think there is a bit of randomness, so if you don't take the city this time, heal next time, and you'll get it in 2600)

2700 BC: Build settlers in Teno. Heal your warrior army.

2600 BC: Heal your army again. Manage your workers in Rome. Select two science squares, and 1 production square. Rome isn't growing on purpose, we're going to hire a bunch of settlers from the other two cities to grow our population in Rome.

2500 BC: You should have completed Alphabet. Now choose Bronze Working. Move your warrior army to the tile two squres north, one square east of Teno (to the right of the mountain). Rush the settler in Pompeii. Switch to library in Rome. Switch workers in Rome to two production, one science. Move the new settler to Rome.

2400 BC: Build settlers in Pompeii. Add the settler that arrived in Rome to the city. Manage your workers in Rome, 2 science, 2 production. From now on, you will not work any food tiles in Rome.

2200 BC: Move your warrior army 2 north.

2100 BC: Research Pottery

2000 BC: Attack the barbarians. Rush the library in Rome. Rush the settlers in Teno. Send the settlers to Rome. Build more settlers in Teno. Build Collosus in Rome.

Now our goal is to rush as many settlers as possible to Rome, until we have 20 there, and then build the Hanging Gardens in Rome on the next turn after that.

1900 BC: Send your warrior army north to the barbarian camp. Research irrigation.

1800 BC: Rush settlers in Pompeii. Send 'em to Rome and build some more.

1700 BC: Join both Settlers to Rome. Manage your workers in Rome, remove the food workers, just leave them in the city because they'll add production.

1600 BC: Attack the barbarians. Leave the galley there if you get one, just choose defense. We don't care about it.

1500 BC: I got Imhotep (great person) here, and completed the colossus with him. Normally, this early in the game, you'd probably want the 50% to every new building, but this is the demo and we don't have a lot of time, and we can't get advanced buildings anyway. Send your warrior army two squares southwest. Here I started Hanging Gardens in Rome, and switched the tile back to science, because we don't want Hanging Gardens until we have 20 pop in Rome.

1400 BC: Now we've got irrigation, make sure to manage your workers in Rome.

1300 BC: Move your army southwest again. If you have the cash, rush settlers in Teno and Pompeii, send 'em to Rome, you know the drill.

From now on I'll just assume you're building settlers like mad, until I say so, or you get to 20 pop in Rome. Make sure you don't get Hanging Gardens before then! Manage your workers to food tiles around this time, if you're getting too close (I was ~10 turns off from finishing).

1200 BC: Kill the barbs with your army.

1100 BC: Send your warriors back to Teno. You should have finished currency. Research Democracy. Send your caravan to Athens.

700 BC: You should have finished Democracy. Pick whatever you want next, we are now going to turn off research. Go to the Rome city screen, and switch from beakers to gold. Remove any workers who are in the cornfields, and stick 'em back in the city. At this point in my game, I'm getting 44 gold per turn, and Hanging Gardens is getting too close for comfort. Switch to the Trade Fair wonder. Don't forget to rush settlers from Pompeii and Teno. If it's a choice between the two, choose Pompeii, since it's closer.

Continue rushing settlers to Rome until you have 20 there. Don't let Trade Fair build before that happens! We need to switch to Hanging Gardens and put all those hammers into it, so we can have 31 pop ASAP. If you can't stop them from doing it, building Gardens a little early won't kill you. Once you get 500 gold, you can build a bank, but I'd prefer to wait until Gardens because that would be a lot of wasted hammers. Also, it won't kill you to rush the Gardens. You can use your judgment.

200 AD: By now, by hook or by crook, by rushing or whatever you need to do, you should have build Trade Fair, Hanging Gardens, and a Bank in Rome (and you should have near 31 population. As soon as you have all these, switch to Democracy. (edit: I only had 29 pop at this point, but it's okay, I switched anyway. You'll likely get 30 with a great person, and 30 is enough, seeing as I won with 30)

350 AD: You should be generating 1500-1700 gold per turn in Rome now (remember not to grow your population!). Spam caravans to Athens, for the win.

If Alex starts to threaten you, spend some money on some Piker armies. He won't reach you in time anyway.

850 AD: I have 20,064 gold, but it won't let me build World Bank. Probably because I got the last little bit with a caravan. I'm angry.

900 AD: I'm building the world bank, and I'm somewhat mollified. May as well spam some pikemen armies to defend my cities, just in case Alex gets hungry!

950 AD: Cleo got hungry instead. Alex is willing to take a bribe to "flay them without mercy."

1175: I win with 3 turns to spare.

vale
Jun 13, 2008, 02:40 AM
I'm glad you found some of those ideas helpful.

A few more settler pump cities are good, it really speeds up the development of Rome. In my 400 AD Economic win, I had Tenochtitlan, Athens, a city between Rome and Tenochtitlan, a city between Tenochtitlan and Athens and a city east of Tenochtitlan all pumping Settlers.

Rome built warriors and 1 settler then Library, Colossus, Hanging Gardens, Bank, Factory, Trade Fair, caravan spam, World Bank. By the time the World Bank was unlocked in 350 AD it was a 1 turn build thanks to hammer banking. I rush bought everything after the Hanging Gardens as soon as I could if it shaved any time off it (Rushed the Trade Fair when it was 2 turns away to get it one turn earlier because the cost was more than recouped by one extra turn of its power).

Other cities only built settlers until it was caravan spam time.

Research path was
Alphabet
Bronze Working
Pottery
Irrigation (halves colossus cost in addition to boosting the settler pumps)
Currency
Democracy
Banking (for free from gold)
Industrialization

I got an explorer as my first GP (nice). Later I got another explorer, builder, and artist (not so useful). A scientist would be lovely to bulb industrialization to allow fully turning off research several turns earlier.

RemoWilliams
Jun 13, 2008, 07:28 AM
By the time the World Bank was unlocked in 350 AD it was a 1 turn build thanks to hammer banking.

Can you explain? I've seen this claim elsewhere, too, but it's never happened to me. I spam nothing but caravans, and when I get to World Bank, I have hardly any hammers saved. Typically it takes me 7 turns.

I don't think I'm genning enough hammers to overflow that much, and I don't really understand overflow in this game, anyway.

KrikkitTwo
Jun 13, 2008, 08:07 AM
I'm glad you found some of those ideas helpful.

A few more settler pump cities are good, it really speeds up the development of Rome. In my 400 AD Economic win, I had Tenochtitlan, Athens, a city between Rome and Tenochtitlan, a city between Tenochtitlan and Athens and a city east of Tenochtitlan all pumping Settlers.

Rome built warriors and 1 settler then Library, Colossus, Hanging Gardens, Bank, Factory, Trade Fair, caravan spam, World Bank. By the time the World Bank was unlocked in 350 AD it was a 1 turn build thanks to hammer banking. I rush bought everything after the Hanging Gardens as soon as I could if it shaved any time off it (Rushed the Trade Fair when it was 2 turns away to get it one turn earlier because the cost was more than recouped by one extra turn of its power).

Other cities only built settlers until it was caravan spam time.

Research path was
Alphabet
Bronze Working
Pottery
Irrigation (halves colossus cost in addition to boosting the settler pumps)
Currency
Democracy
Banking (for free from gold)
Industrialization

I got an explorer as my first GP (nice). Later I got another explorer, builder, and artist (not so useful). A scientist would be lovely to bulb industrialization to allow fully turning off research several turns earlier.

Irrgation isn't necessary to 1/2 colossus.. it is moving to the Mideval Era which you do with your 4th tech (5 techs to mideval and the Romans already have 1)

vale
Jun 13, 2008, 09:29 AM
Irrgation isn't necessary to 1/2 colossus.. it is moving to the Mideval Era which you do with your 4th tech (5 techs to mideval and the Romans already have 1)
I know. It is just a coincidence that that pushes you over.

But the pop boost in all cities is huge for developing the large city quickly as well. Without it the Hanging Gardens comes too quickly before you are ready for it.

RemoWilliams
Jun 13, 2008, 11:20 AM
How on earth did you get to industrialization? It's not available from the tech path you posted.

Also, can someone please please pretty please explain "hammer banking?"

I added a couple more cities, and finished in 950AD

KrikkitTwo
Jun 13, 2008, 12:01 PM
If you produce more hammers than you use hammers build up... when building units normally, the units start doubling up to use up the excess. However Caravans (and buildings obviously) are an exception.

jayhawk97
Jun 13, 2008, 12:11 PM
Can you explain? I've seen this claim elsewhere, too, but it's never happened to me. I spam nothing but caravans, and when I get to World Bank, I have hardly any hammers saved. Typically it takes me 7 turns.

I don't think I'm genning enough hammers to overflow that much, and I don't really understand overflow in this game, anyway.

I just followed this tactic, and also didn't have any hammers saved. I then realized a major difference between what Vale and I did: I didn't build a factory. I still won the victory at 750 AD, but yeah... I was missing the hammer overflow.

@ Vale: Have you tried doing it on Warlord yet? I noticed one major difference between Chieftain and Warlord right from the start: You don't start with a warrior, so you can't beat Monty to the first barb village... meaning you don't get the money to rush the first warrior army and first settler... which seems like it would be a huge setback in getting Tenochtitlan and the other settler pump up and running early enough to start growing Rome quick enough.

RemoWilliams
Jun 13, 2008, 12:49 PM
Don't forget that you get Democracy from defeating Alex!

And how do I get to industrialization? The question is burning a hole in my brain.

vale
Jun 13, 2008, 01:50 PM
I believe that the tech tree is randomized to a degree like SMAC and Civ II.

So even if you have the "apparent" prerequisites, techs are not unlocked. This happens quite often. For instance Democracy not appearing in the tech tree even though it seems it should happens to me all the time. The result of this is I have no idea what the prerequisites are for technologies (that tech tree in the game gives very little hint to be honest as I've been able to research Demo with none of the "obvious" prerequisites as displayed by it and I've been unable to research it with all of them.

I know for a fact that Industrialization was in my available techs after I finished Democracy. Because I had to waste no research on "dead" techs to unlock it the 4 or so turns was totally worth it to save construction time at the end. Not only that the factory boosted the production of the trade fair. I can't remember if I had banking yet from the gold bonus.

The reason you aren't experiencing the hammer banking is the missing factory. That doubles your hammers and IIRC, the city with factory was still not quite producing double the hammers needed for the caravan. So without a factory, it produces less than a full caravan a turn and thus banks no hammers beyond a small amount of over flow (less than a caravan cost) from turn to turn.

vale
Jun 13, 2008, 01:52 PM
I've done it on Warlord but it is much slower and more painful.

Yes Monty is a pain on this map. Not is a quick rush not available, but he starts planting units and even cities on your roads which is extraordinarily annoying. I had to rush Iron Working after Alphabet - Bronze Working to take him out.

My initial city had to build multiple settlers (I think 2 or 3) which definitely slowed it down as well.

Once Monty is dead though it seems to go just as fast as Chieftain (just the slow initial start).

vale
Jun 13, 2008, 01:56 PM
Don't forget that you get Democracy from defeating Alex!

And how do I get to industrialization? The question is burning a hole in my brain.

This is the odd thing. All I ever got from beating Alex was gold.

I always have to self research Democracy. And he also seems unwilling to sell it to me.

Ferrum Rex
Jun 13, 2008, 02:15 PM
This is the odd thing. All I ever got from beating Alex was gold.

I always have to self research Democracy. And he also seems unwilling to sell it to me.

Occasionaly you will get techs(tech diffusion, or osmosis if you will) and taking enemy capitals. No clue about regular cities, I've never recieved one though from a regular city.

RemoWilliams
Jun 13, 2008, 06:16 PM
I just posted about this here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=278776, but it's very much related to this thread, so I'll summarize.

Essentially, when the game claims to reward you with a market, you may or may not actually get it! This is why we see $2600 gold per turn some games, and $1700 per turn other games.

In fact, only once have I gotten the full gold amount.

Now I'm tempted to make my super-city some other city, besides Rome, so that I can actually get a market there.

Update on the strategy: I'm currently experimenting with possibly 2 super cities, or maybe 1 super city and an above average city, using the settler spam method, so I can research and fill my gold purse at the same time, teching to industrial for the factory. Also, a courthouse may speed things up in Rome.

Vale, I'm just about positive your teching industrialization must have been a bug. I had to research about 6-7 extra techs to get there. Thing is, if you're fairly consistent in your moves, you'll get the same results mostly, in the demo. I get the same rewards from barbarians EVERY time, as long as I land on the square in the same turn as before. I think it's keeping the random seed intact.

So, if our situations are bugs, they should be pretty reproducible. I'll post a reproduction method (in the linked thread), and I'll also contact Firaxis if it is an actual bug.

If you could post a step-by-step to industrialization, that would be awesome, but also a PITA, I know.

vale
Jun 13, 2008, 06:31 PM
I don't think the market thing you describe is a bug.

I have been able to research Industrialization with just those techs listed above several times (and several times been unable to as well).

Again, if they are using the randomized method of Civ II and SMAC, this is not a surprise. I never understood the rationale behind randomly disallowing some techs that you have the prereqs for for whatever reason.

RemoWilliams
Jun 13, 2008, 07:07 PM
I have been able to research Industrialization with just those techs listed above several times (and several times been unable to as well).

Again, if they are using the randomized method of Civ II and SMAC, this is not a surprise. I never understood the rationale behind randomly disallowing some techs that you have the prereqs for for whatever reason.

Right, I understand that.

I wasn't for a second questioning that you got to industrialism. Are you quite certain that you didn't pop any techs, or slowly research them? Obviously you didn't pop all 6-7, but maybe you popped just the right one. If the civilopedia weren't incomplete, it might help us figure it out. Wish we could get the attention of someone who has the final game to help us out here.

If you've done it several times, it seems doubtful you'd have missed something like that, but it's so perplexing I have to ask.

As for the rationale, I'd imagine it goes something like this: Science is a series of accidents. I'd have to say it's a game mechanic I don't like very much, if so.

vale
Jun 13, 2008, 07:35 PM
I'm 100% positive I researched no techs but those listed. Didn't even get a scientist but if I had he would have gone to popping Industrialization.

Smidlee
Jun 13, 2008, 08:07 PM
Has anyone tested this strategy on the full game yet? This strategy seems a little cheesy especially with the settler and caravans exploits.
Vale you should have been a beta tester. I'm impress you find both of these in so short of time.

vale
Jun 13, 2008, 08:47 PM
I've heard (obviously no personal confirmation), that new cities start at population 1 in the full game.

This definitely will slow down this strategy significantly as new settler pumps will take much longer to just "break even" and produce their first settler.

RemoWilliams
Jun 13, 2008, 10:07 PM
Has anyone tested this strategy on the full game yet? This strategy seems a little cheesy especially with the settler and caravans exploits.
Vale you should have been a beta tester. I'm impress you find both of these in so short of time.

Oh boy, the exploit wars begin.

I'd hardly call the settler strat an exploit. Seems to me to be the intended purpose, and that it won't work so well against stronger AIs... you have to keep all your cities but the super city at low population.

The caravan thing, on the other hand, seems pretty exploit-y to me. I bet that one gets nerfed pretty quickly.

On the other hand, I'm still at wits end trying to figure out how Vale keeps accidentally getting Industrialization, which is the only way the caravan trick works, unless you have a city without a factory that generates more than 30 hammers per turn.

I think I'll stay up all night obsessing about it. Sounds like a plan.

I posted asking for clarification here: http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18180

Hopefully Elizabeth will join the thread and enlighten us all.

Smidlee
Jun 13, 2008, 11:50 PM
Oh boy, the exploit wars begin.

I'd hardly call the settler strat an exploit. Seems to me to be the intended purpose, and that it won't work so well against stronger AIs... you have to keep all your cities but the super city at low population.
. So you think it's by design that when you run republic you can build settlers half a pop if your micromanage the food bar? If you stop the food bar short from growing to 3 pop then it only cost half as much as if you happen to allow grow to 3. This maybe where the demo starts out 2 pop instead of one so it may not be in the full game.

vale
Jun 14, 2008, 04:16 AM
Only thing I can suggest is make sure you are really checking for industrialization in your list after you have finished the other critical technologies. Scroll down all the way until you actually see the option that lets you look at the tech tree because if it is available it will not be on the first page.

Other than that I have no idea.

the_ilest
Jun 14, 2008, 10:28 AM
i tried, and it kind of worked for me but my second time around i decided to instead built a new city on the small island west rome and it worked better for me because that small city was only concentrating on building population around 21 per turn and it produced 900+ money along with my tenochitlan that produced 852 to a total of 1800+

jayhawk97
Jun 14, 2008, 08:45 PM
Only thing I can suggest is make sure you are really checking for industrialization in your list after you have finished the other critical technologies. Scroll down all the way until you actually see the option that lets you look at the tech tree because if it is available it will not be on the first page.

Other than that I have no idea.

Its making me go invention, and then industrialization.

I've been trying today to get an economic victory on Warlord... its tough. The closest I've gotten was one time when I unlocked the World Bank with two turns to go, and hadn't built a factory, so I didn't have any overflow. Whenever I take time research industrialization and build the factory, I don't quite get the 20,000 before time expires.

Also, that one game I got closer, I was generating around 2100 gold/turn, while the other couple times I only was getting 17-1800. The only thing that I can think of would be that I didn't get any economic great people those games...

Even with the problems I've been having juggling stuff near the end, its the start that's really screwing me, though. Not having the starting warrior to grab that first barb village sucks, and once I finally get my army up to Teno, it takes, providing everything goes right, a good 5-6 turns to knock Monty out. By the time I have my two settler pumps up and running, its already been way too much time.

So, Vale, by what year do you have your mega-city fully built on Warlord? The earliest I've gotten is somewhere around 500 AD... which is way too late. Any tips anyone?

vale
Jun 14, 2008, 10:50 PM
I believe it was around 100-200AD.

Monty being around is a pain at the beginning but he also built 2 extra cities for me in my game so once I actually took him out I had extra Settler pumps.

By the way, I don't think its an exploit or a bug to micromanage the food bar to avoid growth to population 3. Its a feature of the game that the food cost of population increases very rapidly.

For example in Civ IV it is 22-24-26-28-...

I don't have the exact numbers, but it feels like in Revolution it is more like
10-20-30-40-...

So it is just simple math that you want to avoid eating that 20 food to go to pop 3 when if you avoid eating it, it will bring you back from pop 1 and some.

jayhawk97
Jun 15, 2008, 03:14 PM
Has anyone tried out the new map? Seems like the Egyptians get the Hanging Gardens every time... makes it impossible to build up the mega-city quickly enough.

It seems like in the full game the Egyptians could be really annoying, because they're often going to get the wonder you want for getting out to a fast start on whatever win you're going for.

vale
Jun 15, 2008, 03:46 PM
Yeah if they start with Colossus or ESPECIALLY the Hanging Gardens thats going to put a damper on things. I'll have to try this new map out.

If they start with Colossus but are close, you can rush them and just make Thebes into your mega city. That probably would result in a quicker game depending on how efficient you are in taking them out.

If they start with the Hanging Gardens, GG I guess. I dunno the strategy still works but that is 10 extra settlers you will have to produce so it won't be nearly as early.

jayhawk97
Jun 15, 2008, 07:05 PM
Yeah if they start with Colossus or ESPECIALLY the Hanging Gardens thats going to put a damper on things. I'll have to try this new map out.

If they start with Colossus but are close, you can rush them and just make Thebes into your mega city. That probably would result in a quicker game depending on how efficient you are in taking them out.

If they start with the Hanging Gardens, GG I guess. I dunno the strategy still works but that is 10 extra settlers you will have to produce so it won't be nearly as early.

I haven't explored nearly enough, but it seems the quickest (possibly only) way to get to them would be a naval crossing across a small sea that separates you from them... which still isn't very fast... and I'm not 100% sure a galley can even make it across.

Give it a look, let us know what you find.

malloc
Jun 15, 2008, 09:06 PM
I was able to pull off an economic victory with the Egyptians first try on the new map. Granted, it was on Chieftain, but I had never seen the map and never played with the Egyptians so I think it would certainly be possible to pull off on Warlord assuming prior knowledge of the map. I started with the Colossus, which combined with the power of trading posts and ample deserts more than made up for not starting with Republic. By the time I was ready to really start settler pumping I had researched to Code of Laws and switched anyway. I only got one useful great person as well (great builder to finish trade fair), so it definitely didn't hinge on that. Looking forward to trying on Warlord later.

vale
Jul 06, 2008, 11:28 PM
So apparently the issue with being able to research Industrialism so early was something called tech jumping. Sigmakan has an article explaining it here.

http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18743

So the mystery apparently is solved.

I've improved my best single player economic finish date to 250 AD but its getting tight to get better than that. I probably could have shaved a turn off if I had micromanaged slightly better (overflow more hammers into caravans while stockpiling gold). When I unlocked the world bank in 150 AD it was a 2 turn build that didn't look so much more than a 1 turn build and I had ~21500 gold. So if I had been pulling some of the sea tiles up into the city a few turns earlier it may have been a one turn build.

Other than that the game went perfectly as I got an explorer and a scientist pretty early.