Strange events, predicted only by a mad priest, have altered the course of European history.

The year is 1800, and Napoleon rules France with an iron fist. Otto von Bismarck, born decades before he should have, rules Prussia with just as much strength.

The Duke of Wellington has sworn to lead Britain to glory once more. And King Phillip II has ascended to the Spanish throne in a weird rising from the dead.

Austria is led by a famous German scientist, who is known world wide for his Theory of Relativity. Albert Einstein just hopes he can be as successful as a ruler. The Byzantines are rising again under their leader Emperor Barborossa, who was only a general of that Empire but now commands it.

Rome's Julius Caesar has usurped control, and now strives to rule an Empire again.

Peter the Great has risen to command Russia once more, and put an end to the threats to his nation. Hannibal, Rome's greatest enemy, has mounted his elephant once more to control Carthage.

In Sweden, Gustavus Adolphus has taken power, and swears to do as well as he did the last time he ruled.

What strange magic has brought all these powerful leaders together is unknown, but it seems that they have their work cut out for them.

But as the storm gathers over Europe, can these great rulers maintain peace, or will the temptation of war for men who know it so well prove too great?

AIM OF THE NES: You must control 7 of the 10 capitals.

COSTS AND INCOME

Provinces bring in 3 gold per turn. Dockyards, barracks, towns and cities bring in 5 gold per turn.

You can upgrade a province to a town for 5 gold. Barracks and dockyards may only be built in a town, and cost 10 gold each. You may only upgrade to a city from a town that has either a barracks or a dockyard in it, and this costs 15 gold.

Towns give a -1 modifier to all attacks on them. Barracks and dockyards give a -2 modifier to all attacks on them. Cities give a -3 modifier to all attacks on them.

Armies cost 3 gold and can move one province per turn. Fleets cost 5 gold and can move one sea per turn.

Armies can't attack as soon as they are built, and fleets can't be used for transporting to hostile provinces on the turn it is built.

Armies can board and disembark without any movement cost. However, if the fleet has to move while the army is on board, then the army may not disembark until the next turn.

All enemy fleets must be sunk before troops can be landed, even if onto your own province(for example, all French fleets would have to be sunk in C if Britain was at war with France and trying to move troops to Province 10).

Fleets and armies CAN move in their first turn, just not to attack.

Fleets from different nations can co-exist in a sea, but armies of different nations CANNOT co-exist in a province due to the tensions and mistrust of the time.

THERE IS A BANKING LIMIT OF 10 GOLD. Sending money to someone, whether to buy a province, send them aid or buy peace(or war if you want to bribe someone to attack) is added to their next turn's money, as if you banked it for them. It cannot exceed their banking limit with what they have banked already.

COMBAT AND CLAIMING PROVINCES

You can move an army into an unclaimed province and pay 3 gold to claim it.

When you attack an enemy, if you succeed the province becomes a disputed province, one which is yours but can only be claimed at a cost of 10 gold while still at war, or for 3 gold as normal if you make peace with its last owner. Disputed provinces don't bring in any income until they are claimed.

When armies of two nations try to take the same province, they automatically fight due to the tensions between nations. These skirmishes should rarely cause war however, unless it is over the claimed land itself. Only if one side has orders not to fight to take it over does combat not occur.

In combat, units roll two 6 sided dice each. On a roll of 7 or under, they kill an opposing unit. Each unit has only one shot, and if there are any defenders left at the end, then the attackers retreat. If all the defenders are dead, and there is at least one attacking army left, the attacker takes the province(it becomes "disputed"). If it is an unclaimed province, then the side with the fewer armies remaining retreats. In a sea, it stays as it is.

Defenders also have militia. Normal militias have to roll 5 or under to kill. Your capital militia has to roll 7 or under to kill.

Militias count as defenders, and have to be killed to take a province.

NATIONS

Britain[The Duke of Wellington](Gruban)
Capital 6(London)

France[Emperor Napoleon Bonaparte](Poto)
Capital 9(Paris)

Spain[King Phillip II](Revolutionairy)
Capital 16(Madrid)

Carthage[Hannibal](Dexter)
Capital 25(Carthage)

Rome[Julius Caesar](Kennelly)
Capital 29(Rome)

Prussia[Otto von Bismarck](Demetrias)
Capital 37(Berlin)

Austria[Albert Einstein](RoddyVR)
Capital 41(Vienna)

Byzantium(The Troquelet)
Capital 48(Constantinople)

Russia[Tsar Peter I](Jason the King)
Capital 61(Moscow)

Sweden[King Gustavus Adolphus](Toasty)
Capital 69(Stockholm)

[b]MAP(AS OF TURN 13, or 1813)
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/uknesiii13.jpg

Of course, everyone has 5 gold to begin with.

I think I've covered everything. If you have any questions, ask!

Good luck all!

Nemesis

LINK: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/uknesiii13.jpg

I'll take Sweden :D.

I will be Peter of Russia! This will be a new change..lol. Anyways, two question:
Lets say I move an army into an unclaimed territory now. I dont have 5g to pay, could I pay it next trun and move the army into another province?

Does gold carry over to the next turn?

To Sweden
From Peter, Tsar of Russia

As you well know, Russia is a nieghbor. I would like to grant you a NAP for the time being, as so our nations may strive together in peace.

To: Tsar Peter I of Russia
Sweden has some important matters that must be attanded to firstly before such permanent records are signed. We would sooner draw out our borders and agree upon them before an NAP is made.

Turkey is mine! I'll post soon.

Well, in retrospect, Nemesis, the subtitle "A Beacon Of Hope" was rather ironic :lol: Hopefully the Gathering Storm will not fulfill its prophecy... :D

I assume your "mad priest" was Nostradamus?... Wow, all the greatest leaders in one game! Emperor Barbarossa is ready, in any case. :)

OK, now for some rules questions!

1. Can I spend 15 gold and right away build a dockyard? Can I spend 30 gold and right away build a city?

2. "Fleets cannot land troops in hostile provinces the turn they are built." Does hostile mean, belonging to another player, or an enemy? Does it include unowned provinces?

3. If armies can embark and disembark without spending moves, can I move from 51 to 49, embark to a fleet in P, and disembark in 46 for example, since I spent 1+0=1 moves? Could I then attack any troops in the province?

4. I understand that an army which embarks, and then the fleet moves, may not disembark. What if an army is already on board and the fleet moves. May it disembark? Can it move after disembarking?

5. "You can add one to Patriotism at a cost of 5 gold per point added. " Is there a limit? I suppose you can't raise it higher than 12 because of the 2 dice roll...

6. For Fleets and Armies, is the "Embark from as many provinces as you like" and "Disembark to ditto" rules in place?

7. Can I build Armies or Fleets in Provinces and Towns, or just in Barracks for armies, Dockyards for fleets, or both in a City?

Diplomacy to follow.

Ah, first one more rule question. This regards convoys, suppose I have a convoy with the last link missing, suppose I want to attack Spain and I start from 51. I transfer my troops (free embark) to a fleet in N, then M, then L, then K, then the fleet in K moves to I. Can I then disembark the armies?

------------------

DISPATCH FROM HIS MIGHTINESS EMPEROR BARBAROSSA

The mighty Turkish nation will make a mark on Europe! We want peace but we are adept at war. Please, do not make us dance on your bones. :D

We claim these lands and seas as Turkey's by divine right:

1. The Seas P, M, and N. These MUST be Turkey's and any ship entering them will be promptly sunk as an invader.

2. The Provinces 44, 45, 46, 47, 49, 50, 51, 52, 55. Anyone who enters these lands will be at war with Turkey.

To TSAR PETER of RUSSIA

Brother,

Though we may be of different religions, both our nations are ruled by wise and just men. Therefore I extend to you the hand of friendship. If you are interested, we could sign a DPP or a NAP, as you prefer. Also, I would like to sign a DMZ, declaring the Black Sea to be empty for the rest of time. [LOL Jason, we always seem to end up with a sea between us!] If you respect my claims in Turkey including 44, 45, and more important for you 55, 50, and 52, I would be happy to equally support your own claims, whether they be in Sweden, Bohemia, Tyrol, etc.

If you are interested in owning 55, I will cease all claims for 5 gold.

Yours, Barbarossa the Red-Bearded.

---------

To ADOLF of VIENNA

Sir,

I hope peace can exist between our nations. Perhaps some sort of friendly agreement could be signed between us - I'll let you think of something. In the meantime, I urge you to look north and west for new lands - Turkey is a poor nation and we require much land to support the lavish banquets we hold nightly here in Stamboul (I enclose an invitation to the one this Thursday). If you agree to our claims, peace can exist, and we can turn to dealing with external enemies - perhaps we can even cooperate if these enemies happen to be the same people.

If you are interested in owning 55, I will cease all claims for 5 gold.

Yours in Peace,

Barbarossa the Red-Bearded.

---------

As you can see, Russia and Austria, I don't want to fight over 55. I hope that you will buy me out and then decide the matter yourselves. Since armies never bounce in this NES, but always fight, diplomacy is preferable since it leaves us extra armies to claim lands faster than our enemies...

Uhm, Troq, you're the Byzantines, not the Turks :blush:.

Oops! :confused: can't be helped now... I thought Barbarossa WAS a Turk... I can't find any of 'em on the net, except Fred B. who was Holy Roman Emperor...

To Barbarossa
From Peter of Russia

Russia has little plans for 55, but we do have plans for 53, as you can see it is next to my capital. If there is a way to claim this peacefully, please notify me, or els it will be first come-first serve, and we shall see what happens from that. Do to the circumstances, I cannot sign any sort of pact right now, but I do agree to the demilitarization of the Black Sea. No Russia fleets will ever be built in that sea.
(lol, I know there always is a sea!)

I'll be the Duke of Wellington

I'll be King Phillip II of Spain

The King of Spain has the following announcement!

I Phillip of Spain the second claim the lands of Spain, Portugal and NW Africa. (14 15 17 18 19 20 21). I would also like to begin talks with Rome over the Island of Corsica (26).
Anyone who doesnt dispute my arimes entering the above lands will be considered freinds. Though if any one takes the above the land will find out that the Spainish can fight as well bull protecting her young.

Jason, yes and no. Yes you can claim the province the turn after, and no money doesn't carry over to the next turn. This is to stop those damned banking races lol.

And for everyone else, sign all the treaties you want, they mean nothing! Backstabbing and ganging up are the order of the day, you must do anything to win! But there are no right of passage agreements, as your armies aren't as stupid when it comes to trusting other nation's soldiers as they once were.

Troquelet:

1) No, you must upgrade turn by turn.

2) Hostile means another player's. You cannot land in an ally's province anyway, as it would be a declaration of war. Armies cannot co-exist in the same province at any time. Unclaimed provinces are not counted as hostile.

3) You must begin in a coastal province to board a fleet, as the move to the province you land in is what counts as a move. If the fleet has to move one, then it also takes up the army's move, meaning they cannot disembark till the next turn.

4) If the army has already been on the fleet for one turn, and then the fleet moves, then yes the army may disembark. But it may not move until the next turn.

5) You're right, I forgot to mention that the lowest Patriotism rating is 2, and the highest is 12, and basically the bonus adds up to what your Patriotism score is, as at 10 patriotism you have to roll 10 or under to kill. Only for militia does this change, with the plus bonus being a maximum of +5(for 12 patriotism) and the lowest being -5(for 2 patriotism).

6) Yes.

7) Second part is right. Armies only in barracks and cities, fleets only in dockyards and cities.

8) You would have to wait one turn before that army could disembark. However, if the link was complete, then the armies could have disembarked immediately.

And welcome you all to the game, it seems that some have joined that I didn't think would after they didn't join the first UKNES3. So it seems I probably haven't made enough places. However, I will not be doing an expansion for quite a while yet. If I do, I promise it will be of better quality than the American one, which was slightly rushed I admit.

Anyway, good luck to all! Remember to start PMing me orders! First turn is tonight!

Nemesis

PS: Troquelet, Barborossa was a famous Byzantine general who managed to almost rebuild the Western Roman Empire. He later became Holy Roman Emperor.

I'll be Consul Julius Caesar of the Roman Empire.

"I stand here on the Forum Romanum where I stood once 1800 years ago and promise you to restore the glory of Rome and Italy.
There are nations in the world we did not know about back then,but some like the Germanics or Gaullish,who now call themselves French,I know very well.So support me and let us build a Second Roman Empire."

To:King Philipp II
From:Consul Julius Caesar

Dear King,I think we have two things in common:our people are both Catholic and one possible enemy in Carthage.As Carthage will certainly try to take control of all of Africa and Sicily once more I offer you a DPP to stand together against this nation.I also would like to pay you some money for Corsica/Sardinia later on.

To:Napoleon Bonaparte
From:Julius Caesar

As you know I once fought against your ancestors and they always seemed noble and honorful to me.I'm sure you as Vercingetorix descendant rule the French with the same Wisdom and Mercy.I wish to sign a NAP with you as we will certainly have a common border.

Rome claims 27,28,30,31,32 and 26 if talks with Spanish succeed.

i shall take Germany as Bismark.

FROM THE DESK OF FREDERICK BARBOROSSA

In a surprising reversal of policy lol, Barbarossa announced he would no longer refer to his people as Turks but instead as Byzantines! :D

To TSAR PETER

As you know this is an age when nations never trusted each other. For all the agreements we may sign, our people still mistrust each other.

That's why I want us to have the securest border possible. We shouldn't fight - we have other enemies. So, I want our border to be as secure as possible. That's why the Russian-Byzantine border should be 53 Russian, 52 Byzantine, Sea P empty. That way the only way to attack each other is through that narrow strip of land to the east. It'll be perfectly obvious if I'm about to attack you or the other way around, making a successful attack nearly impossible, ensuring peace between our nations.

So, that is the best border and the fairest besides... the people between the Black and Caspian seas want Byzantine rule, not Russian.

---------

To everyone else who was raised to the throne, congratulations! A successful rule to all of you.

I'll take France

Just Carthage and Austria left!

There would have been an update tonight, but I don't have enough orders.

SO EVERYONE GET YOUR ORDERS IN BY PM BY TOMORROW, OR I WILL MOVE FOR YOU! YOU HAVE 5 GOLD TO SPEND.

Anyway, it will probably be tomorrow afternoon.

And then the next update will be the next night, and then I hope to update daily.

Nemesis

To Julius Caesar
From King Phillip II

A DDP would be acceptable. I hope we can as allys bulid up a trustfull freindship. I do not have respect for the Carthage nation. I have plans for a few peices of land there. If they do not respect this I will take the land as well as the city of Carthage.

To: Baborossa of Byzantium
From: Grand Tsar of Russia

I, for the sake of peace between our nations, will sign the agreement of border territories. Let it be said, let it be done.

Nemesis: I can't remember if I sent in orders for this NES or teh past one! In any case, I have sent new ones.

To Sweden
From Tsar of Russia

Hail, king. Since Russia expects to gain territories 63 and 59, I suggest a DMZ of the seas F and E. Please respon quickly on this matter.

UK, I've noticed a problem. We all spend 3 gold to buy an army and the other two can't get banked, right? Well, next turn we have just 4 gold, because of upkeep, so we can't claim the province!

Or is there no upkeep?

Maybe the problem can be solved by making claiming cost 3 gold, not 5, so it's cheaper and we can get the expansion over faster...

I would say make it 4 gold, except that when you make a second army to go somewhere else that also keeps you from claiming more...

Gold will be really scarce in this game! Just building a barracks will take all the money for a turn from an average nation! [Could you make it so we can't bank more than 20 gold or something like that?] Anyway, 'tis your NES! I'm interfering too much :(

To: King Peter I of Russia
Sweden understands your want for province 63. However, Sweden has a long and close blood relation to the inhabitants of the Eastern Baltic in province 59. Because we will be aquiring these lands, such a demilitarization proposal is unwanted by the Swedish government.
Should the Romanov Monarchy find it unacceptable that the Swedish rule 59 we will continue to talk, but ultimately we must have either 63, 59, or Moscow itself. The Baltic should be little more than a Swedish lake, and we feel very strongly about this.

I like the idea of limiting banking
Another idea is banking a percentage of your end turn gold say 70% or 50% rounding down of what you have left is carried over to the next turn.
But as Troq said "it is your NES"

Hmm, Troq. you make a good point. New rule:

CLAIMING LAND ONLY COSTS 3 GOLD NOW.

As for the banking, I will now allow banking of up to 10 gold.

Nemesis

Swedeb

Perhaps to compensate for the loss of 59, you may have Denmark? I am sorry, but those two provinces are cruicial to the survival of the Russian empire in Europe. Not once has a military solution entered my head until now, and I wish to it to stop. Perhaps a payment for the province would be acceptable?

Then we are mostly agree don the province of 63 being Russian, correct?

I understand about the neglaect to sign the DMZ. Proposol withdrawn.

_Tsar Peter.

All right, then please bank the rest of my gold of course :D

I just want the world to know that I back Russia to the hilt and will aid the Tsar in any conflict, either with monetary or military support.

Greetings Fellow Europeans.
France would like to take this time to announce we lay claim to Provinces 7-13.

To G. Julius Caesar:
We received your communication and are happy to sign a NAP at this time. Our ancestors were noble people and we are honored you mentioned them. We should begin more detailed discussions of what to do with 32 I am sure we can come to a mutual agreement that will serve all.

To: O. Van Bismark
Greetings from France. We would like to send our best and hope we can both come to an agreement regarding Province 35. We hope your people thrive and would be interested in a NAP at this time.

To: Duke of Wellington
Good Day to you sir. Our histories have been rough and at times even deadly. I am searching for a solution to our indifferences and I hope you are as well. At this time the only thing I can offer is to Demilitarize D and to a certain amount C. I am aware that you must colonize Ireland and Iceland and we respect your wishes. However be warned, do NOT send more than what is necessary to colonize.

To:King Phillip II
Bon Jour. We honor you and your people and are glad to note that you are claiming no France land. We as well stake no claim to Spanish land. Let us live in peace.

- N. Bonaparte

To: Tsar Peter I of Russia
We are agreed on 63 being Russian. However, seeing as you are not looking for military involvement in the Baltic, I don't understand your desire for 59.

I'll be quite frank here, Peter--Scandinavia is a cramped place. Only 5 territories consist of it, excluding Denmark. I do not want to be bottled up. In order to keep that from happening, I need land on mainland Europe. 59's people, it's culture, and it's language are all more closely tied to Sweden than to Russia. Therefore, it is absolutely necessary that Sweden control 59 and/or 63. I'm perfectly content to have just 59.

You have no say in what goes on in Denmark because of your location, and therefore Denmark would be no kind of compensation.

We are willing to offer Far Karelia, which is province 64, in exchange for this one. It is absolutely vital to Swedish wellbeing, and though we are not interested in military conflict, if it comes to pass the Swedish troops are not fearful men.

To: Duke Wellington of England
As we are the only North Sea powers at this time I find it necessary that our nations find peace among the waves. Therefore, we propose a friendship pact, that we will not attack eachother and will not interfere against one another diplomatically.

In exchange, Sweden asks of England to recognize her peaceful claim to Denmark. We are willing to go into further negotiations in exchange for the aquisition of this province.

How does this sound? Sweden gets Denmark and Sweden, Russia gets 62 and 63, and 59 belongs to whoever gets there first? Then Sweden is guaranteed at least 7 provinces, which is more than, say, Britain or Libya is going to get.

I hope this conflict will not be resolved by war.

If we arrange things right, I think everyone can get at least 6 provinces, even Britain and Libya.

To Byzantium
From Spain

As long as it doesn’t fringe on my claims. Besides I wouldn’t give up lands just because Libya felt a small and lonely. Libya is now in my sights and I will not cede any land to this nation that (as far as I know) has not picked a leader.

To Rome
From Spain

I would like to upgrade our pact to a MPP so that we would be the closest of friends in a time when land and borders are again newly being defined.

Dear Caesar and Tsar,

Since you are the two nations I trust most, would you like to sign MPPs, as well as NAPs, all around? I hope that we three nations in the bottom right corner, can bring peace and prosperity to Europe, especially when there are so many potential conflicts developing, including those over Sweden and Libya. I would be glad to help you if you feel you need help, either with money or arms. We can start the PB&J alliance (that is, Peter, Barbarossa, and Julius), if you agree. (I always think of the strangest names...)

To:Barbarossa+Peter
From:Julius

I agree with the idea and the name of the alliance.But it should always be referred to PBJ/JBP to hold the balance in being named.I'm sure the Senate will approve the treaty.

To:Emperor Napoleon
From:Consul Caesar

I think I should have 32 because if you claim all the provinces from 7-13 justfiedly you will have 7 provinces;with 26-31 I will only have 6 and for Corsica I probably will have to pay for.33 and 42 will certainly be Austrian soon so my 7th Province has to be Switzerland;I will of course respect the rights of all Swiss,French-,Italian-,Retoroman and German-speakers.

Also, UK, (sorry about this, I was just looking over the rules again because I was plotting my long-term strategy and I needed to review the fleet rules...) happiness is terrible when your nation gets large. An average nation like Britain with 6 provinces has a happiness of 2, and anyone larger, like say Sweden, will also have 2. Then, if Britain wants to raise his happiness back to the average 7, he must pay 25 gold, while his income as an undeveloped nation is just 20 gold.

In other words, to keep his nation at an average happiness, he must buy towns all over, and even then he's just barely breaking even each turn.

So, either the rules make you pay too much to raise happiness a point, or maybe it should be one point lowered for every two or three provinces or something, but happiness will wreck the game like it is now - how we can get money for armies I don't know... ;)

Actually it's BETTER for larger nations, because you can't sink below 2, so we have free income. Another wierdness in the system...

has enough people send in there orders for an update tonight?

To Barborossa and Ceasar
From Peter, Tsar of Russia

We welcome your pact with great happiness! Let us hope to spread the Eastern Orthodox church with peace and open arms! May it be said, may it be done.

To: Sweden
From: Peter, Tsar of Russia

I thank you, and will gratefully accept the deal inwhich Russia will attain 64 and 63, and in return Sweden will see no Russian involvment in 59. In return for your great generousity, Russia will lend her support is anything happens in 59 in which Sweden dosn't gain the land.

Nemesis: Ok, bank the gold I didn't spend, either.

Troquelet: I said that the patriotism is only changed if you gain or lose provinces. This is only changed by war, not by expansion. Patriotism doesn't change due to expansion, only gaining or losing provinces in battle affects it, and then only for one turn(ie; if you gain one province one turn, then your Patriotism is 6, but if you lose it again the next, your Patriotism is 8).

And there will be an update tonight even if I don't have enough orders in, but I think I have enough.

Nemesis

To:Philipp II
From:Julius Caesar

I gladly sign a MPP,but don't forget I'm in a strong alliance with Byzantium and Russia,so don't mess with them (very unlikely due to your geographic position however).Probably we should start consulations what to do about this elephant-lover Hanninbal.

Your ally,

Julius

[OOC uk,please bank my gold left as well OOC]

I'll join as Carthage if that's alright.
I'll try to get my orders in for tonight.
Thanks

To Julius Caesar of Rome
From King Phillip II of Spain

Though I do not have any wish to join your allence I would be honerned to be on good terms with you. My advisor asks me weather of not your allies would join you in a war caused by me. I do not do expect them to but my advisors plan far into the fuutre and wish to learn of all the factors.

If you declare war on Carthage, I will not help you.

-Barbarossa

Dexter: That's fine, I've got them.

So just Austria is left untaken now.

Finally, there's no need to tell me to bank your remaining money, I will always bank what you have left from your orders up to 10 gold.

Nemesis

We need an updated, Nem!!! lol

Jason: It's coming lol, just been out all day.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/uknesiii1.jpg

GOLD TO SPEND

All nations have 6 gold to spend, meaning that in most cases you can claim the province your army is already in and then move it and claim the province it moves to as well.

Good luck all! There will be another update tomorrow night, so get orders in quick!

Nemesis

From Phillip of Spain
To Barbarians of Cathage

I hope you have checked past prolamions(?) to the world which claimed 19 20 and 21 to the kingdom of Spain. I showed a generus side by allowing you to have 22. Do dispute this, these are claims as old as the world(thread) so any movement of troops in these lands would be a action of war.

Looks like there's going to be tension over Switzerland...

Personally, Spain, I think you should have 14-20. This is more than Libya or Britain are getting, and it's equal to what France or Italy is getting. So it's your fair share. Not to mention it's also the fair share of the map, 7 of the 70 provinces for 1 player out of 10.

21 is needed to make sure that I have not just a foothold in the Area but a kingdom there that wouldnt have my people asking to invade cathage. In short the land is needed to make sure I am a power wihout having to relie on other nations. Besides I have made these claims for a long time.
It was not disputed earlier on so why do you now voice your opinan over a matter where the only other power in region is Rome. They are the only other nation which could act as the middle guy, not you.

Okay, take 21. But if you attack Carthage after that, I will interfere. And, I'm not as far from the conflict as the map makes it seem. I'm as far from Carthage as from Vienna, for example.

From King Phillip II
To Barbarossa

I am taking 21 weather or not cathage troops are sitting there. This will be the extent of my land. I am out of the way of most countrys so even with quite a land mass I am far too in the south west to make a difference except by finace.

To:Napoleon
From:Julius Caesar

I wish to inform you I will take Switzerland this year so we will both have 7 provinces in the end.

To:Hannibal
From:Julius Caesar

Remember I have a DPP with Spain,so don't attack them.But I assure you I won't help them if they attack and you stay out of Europe.

Adolf: This is to inform you that, if you pay me 8 gold [not all at once of course, but in 2 increments of 4 each], I will cease all claims to 55. Otherwise, that territory will be mine this turn. This is my final offer, no other deals will be accepted.

[UKnemesis, I'll change my orders depending on if Austria agrees].

To Spain

Dearest Philip,
Why must you create problems in the world? Africa is rightfully Carthagian territory, and where I won't interfere militarily, I will begin a trade embargo until you leave the Carthagian territory. Carthag has a richer and more older history then that of Spain and Madrid. I suggest you rethink your actions.

Yours, Peter of Russia


To the World
I am the Russian emperor of Russia, and my name is Peter. Now that we are aquainted, I would like to inform everyone of the future Russian territory: 62, 60, 63, 57, 56, 54, and 53. That is seven territories, and would like to inform everyone of the aid Sweden will recieve from Russia if her provicne in 59 is taken by any other then herself.

Yours, Tsar Peter of Russia

This map seems fair to me. As you can see, Britain gets 6, France gets 7, Sweden gets 7, Russia gets 8, Byzantines get 9, Austria gets 7, Italy gets 7, Libya gets 5, Spain gets 7. That's about as fair as it's going to get - even now I'm selling off my land... and Libya is squashed, but that's OK, because she has good protectors in me and Russia. :D

I agree with that map, but one thing:

Libya should recieve Albania (45). They're Muslim, the Byzantines get 9, and they only get 5. It's also only one sea square away.

What do you guys think?

1. I completely tolerate other religions. Why should Italy for example get Corsica, which [at this time] was strongly Protestant? Why Spain get Morocco, which is fundamentalist Islamic? Religion means little or nothing at least in this NES [you should see SUPERNES... :lol: ]

2. Albania completes my border, without it my whole position as a corner player is fragile.

3. I am closer to Albania and thus will claim it faster than anyone else.

4. I don't get 9. I could have 10 if I wanted, because UKnemesis was foolish enough to send Austria north instead of south. For example, by skirmishing a little and with a little luck I could move my borders as far as 42-43-55. But those lands I don't want - they're Austrian culturally. BUT, Albania is mine culturally. The people want ME to rule them, not some colonizer a sea away. How would Sweden like it if England laid claim to Denmark for example?

[lol, UKNESII reference]

So, all in all, the reasons are on my side.

Besides, Libya is not threatened by anyone but Spain, and Spain is weak herself, since her capital is a coastal one. France and England can strike at it navally instead of over land, for example. So, Libya doesn't need any more than diplomatic protection.

Anyway, in case anyone starts getting ideas - moving onto the lands that are purple in the map means a declaration of war on the Byzantines. Carthage is just a sea away, so I warn Hannibal not to try any funny business.

Originally posted by The Troquelet
1. I completely tolerate other religions. Why should Italy for example get Corsica, which [at this time] was strongly Protestant? Why Spain get Morocco, which is fundamentalist Islamic? Religion means little or nothing at least in this NES [you should see SUPERNES... :lol: ]


Religion means little or nothing except when convinient to you, right Barbarossa? :rolleyes:


2. Albania completes my border, without it my whole position as a corner player is fragile.

So who exactly is going to be using it except Carthage? If Carthage isn't threatened, then surely you aren't as you are surrounded by allies. They're poor, and shouldn't be dependent.


3. I am closer to Albania and thus will claim it faster than anyone else.


If Carthage wants, he can very quickly claim Albania by constructing a fleet next turn.


4. I don't get 9. I could have 10 if I wanted, because UKnemesis was foolish enough to send Austria north instead of south. For example, by skirmishing a little and with a little luck I could move my borders as far as 42-43-55. But those lands I don't want - they're Austrian culturally. BUT, Albania is mine culturally. The people want ME to rule them, not some colonizer a sea away. How would Sweden like it if England laid claim to Denmark for example?

[lol, UKNESII reference]


You do get 9. That's more than any other player. Why shouldn't Carthage get it? It's a perfectly harmless plot of land, that would belong to one of your poor allies, that would pose no threat but to make you fall in line with the rest of the other countries in terms of wealth.

Also, Albania is nothing like Byzantium culturally.



So, all in all, the reasons are on my side.

Besides, Libya is not threatened by anyone but Spain, and Spain is weak herself, since her capital is a coastal one. France and England can strike at it navally instead of over land, for example. So, Libya doesn't need any more than diplomatic protection.



So let me get this straight--you, as the most powerful (theoretically) country on the board, need Albania to protect your status as a 'corner power'--but Carthage doesn't need it because they can fight with Spain on less than equal terms.

Brilliant reasoning, I must say.

LOL, the old version of this post was rather long winded. So, to keep it short.

1. Albania IS culturally part of the Balkans and historically it was ruled from Constantinople. Do some research first, Toasty.

2. My allies are not poor, they are rich. Russia, for example, has 8, while the national average is 7. Plus, in combination we are enough to defeat any foe.

3. I guarantee religious freedom to all my subjects as an inherent right. Anyone and everyone is free to practice their own religion. My people are Arians, Damascan Christians, Protestants, Catholics, Muslims, Jews, all sorts. So, Albania's religious differences are, as I said, meaningless.

4. I claimed Albania in the fourth post of the game. If Carthage had an objection, it could be brought up earlier.

5. You have no business in Albania or its affairs.

6. I CAN reach Albania earlier [you're forgetting some of the embarking rules - just go back and read the rules Toasty]

7. My allies will fight for me just as I was willing to fight for them, for example when you and Russia were arguing over the border I said I supported Russia whatever he might do.

8. Continue to attack my lands verbally, Sweden, and I will embargo you. I won't go to war, YET, out of consideration for Russia. BUT, I hope this is not necessary. I would like to sign a NAP with you, if you agree. It is more a formality than an actual pact, since our lands don't touch, but it's a nice gesture, don't you think? ;)

9. Attack my lands physically, Carthage, and Italy and I will divide your lands between us. BUT I hope you don't listen seriously to Sweden's blather. I wish to sign a NAP with you, if that is agreeable to you at the present time.

10. Because Sweden thinks me a greedy pig, I am lowering the price of 55 to 6 gold, payable in 2 installments of 3 gold each. Is this agreeable to you Austria? Let me know ASAP, there's an update tomorrow.

11. To return to the matter at hand, are there any other objections to the map?

Like I said, the original was MUCH too long, don't want you all sitting up late reading it ;)

To: King Phillip II of Spain
From: Hannibal Of Carthage
As sworn leader of the people of Carthage I will stop at nothing to prevent the Spanish heathens from setting foot upon sacred soil of Carthage lands!
I would advise you to remain in your homelands if you know what is good for you.
Yours,
Hannibal

To: Barbarossa
From: Hannibal of Carthage
As leader of the people of Carthage I refuse to accept your map which you propose. The people of Carthage will not have Spainish people living on lands which are rightfully the ownership of Carthage.
Though despite this we shall agree to your NAP and open trading between our nations. I would also like to take this opportunity to destroy any talks that have circulated concerning Carthage interest in the area of Albania. These wild rumours are by far not true as the people of Carthage need not those worthless lands.
Yours,
Hannibal

The NAP is yours. Though I do not think war with Spain is a good or wise idea, I won't interfere. If you need a loan, however, I could help you there, maybe. I am glad to hear those rumors are only rumors.

:D

Much ado about nothing.

The Glorius Empire of Russia formally accepts the map proposed by the sooth sayers of Byzantium.

To Byzantium
From Russia

Greetings, friend. I have knowledge of your dispute with Sweden, as they are hard to work with. While I support you by whatever decision you may make, if you decide to declare war, please tell me one season [turn] ahead of time so that i may [i think i have on] cancel my NAP.

To: Carthag, city of Africa
From: Russian Empire

I support you in your claim to African land, but can not help you in anyway until the dispute between Byzantium and Sweden is overwith. I bid you good luck, and hopefully I will be able to send help soon.

The dispute is over with I think. Sweden wanted to start an argument, but he just ended up looking slightly foolish :D Still I hope he'll take the NAP I offered him.

In any case, I don't want war with Sweden. Why should I? ;) He's too far away.

From Spain
To Cathage

The map that was posted acceptable to me as I wish to keep good relationships with other nations. Your talk of all of the land is abused and foolish. I have given up claim of one piece of land even though the claim is from the first page.
Even this was a good deal as I could have sold it to you, but instead I hand it to you in friendship. I think we should sign a NAP to show the world that we are mature and understanding to each other.

To France, Germany and Britain

I would like to sign a MPP with the both of you, as the pact in the East seems to enjoy throwing their weight around on smaller nations, which only want to enforce their land claims. I don’t propose this so that we are against the East only that we are not pressured and threatened by nations other than those involved.

From:Julius Caesar

The people and Senate of the New Roman Empire fully agree with the map proposed by our friend and ally Barbarossa.If Carthage wishes more lad in Africa they should try to convince the Spanish.If they want land in Europe we will burn them down once more.

To Carthage, Rome and Prussia
From Austria

I wish to sign MPPs with all of you, to guarantee peace amongst our peoples.

To Byzantium
From Austria

You dare say that you own 55? Austria's territorial claims are all the lands surrounding Vienna and 55. Any attempt to sell a territory to us that is already ours will result in war!

[OOC- Just realised how stupidly I moved for Austria. I should have moved to 43! Now any Austrian player is going to be crippled :( ]

Nemesis

Anyway, I still need orders in from Toasty, Juliennew and Demetrias.

If they are not in within the next few hours I will update regardless(and after seeing the mess I made of Austria, you really don't want me moving for you lol!).

Nemesis

To Sweden.
From Germany
The German Gov. will agree to the map and not take 38 if you will sign a DPP with me. Other wise we will take it this turn because its there and looks nice.

OOC- I am sending conditional orders to UK. because i can't get on the internet till way later. - ooc

To Spain and Austria.
From Germany
I except your offers of mpps. May our Countries continue to prosper for all time.

TO AUSTRIA: I'm afraid you are bluffing my friend. I can get to 55 this turn, you can get there in 3 turns. I could, and should, take it. But, if you don't want me to, I am willing to exchange it for 6 gold.

War? Who do you think you're kidding? You have 1 army, my friend. :lol:

Either hand over the money like a good fellow, or I'll move. {UKnemesis, this is a bluff, no matter what he says I'll move to 44 like in my moves. However, I'm bluffing, so when you're acting Austria pretend you have to weigh the scales between war and having 6 provinces, and losing 6 gold and having 7 provinces.}

---------

TO THE WORLD: I strongly suggest nobody enter into any sort of pact with Adolf Hitler until we see the sort of man he is. I have spies in his country and they'll be returning shortly. After they make their report, I and my allies by MPP Rome and by NAP Carthage can judge each for ourselves what is best.

Oh, btw UK, when will the next update be?

Troquelet: I don't have to even know if you're bluffing or not, because if you did move there this turn, you'd be leaving your other provinces that you claimed, especially Albania, open to me :) .

TO BYZANTIUM
FROM AUSTRIA

Very well. We do not want war, and it seems I made a foolish move at first.

Anyway, I will give you 3 gold next turn, and 3 the turn after.

Fair?

Hitler

Update is daily, the next is in a few hours(tonight).

Nemesis

Very fair. - Barbarossa.

So, can I spend the 3 gold next turn?

[troq, do we have an MPP?]

To Carthag
From Tsar of Russia

Since the situation concerning Sweden is overwith, I will send aid as soon as my provinces remain safe. As I am far away, I will have to ask for transport through the Meditteranean and a ROP with my friend, the Byzantiums.

To Byzantium
From Russia

Dear friend, I would like to ask of a huge favor. I have decided to aid my friend the Carthags in Africa. To accomplish this, I would be abliged to be transported by your future fleets in the Meditteranean, and a ROP for the amount of turns it needs for my armies to get to the Med coast.

My ships can carry you if you embark ONLY from 54, not 53. Then, they can carry four armies at a time (I'll only have money for 3 fleets) to 25. If you tell me in advance, my ships will gladly carry you. And of course, if Carthage wants to send aid up here in the north if we ever need it, I'll do the same for him. :D

Yes, the PBJ/JBP alliance is an MPP one, I think. If not, let's sign one today lol!

Sorry guys, as I said before, there are no ROPs due to the fact that this is a very tense time, and troops will fire upon each other on sight.

As for boarding each other's fleets, your fleets would sink themselves rather than carry "enemy" troops!

Nemesis

In that case, Russia, I'm afraid you'll have to send them the other way round, GBAH.

Oops, I only meant armies aren't allowed through each other's provinces etc.

Things such as passage from P to M are fine.

Nemesis

To:Tzar Peter+Barbarossa
From:Julius Caesar

I demand you don't help the Carthaginians or I will consider disbanding the PBJ/JBP!This is a Spanish-Carthaginian dispute and you should stay out of it as I will do.

Well then Russia can't get to Carthage at all can he? Because he can't build boats.

Julius Caesar: I have no intention of interfering, myself, unless war is declared on Carthage, which I would disagree with, but be forced to join because of MPP to Italy...

I assure you I won't attack Carthage willingly but I have a DPP with Spain and I will honor it,so to Hannibal:Don't mess with spain!

So, you help Spain if he's attacked ? Not if he's attacking ?

Look to avoid war about this: both Spain and Carthage get exactly 6 territories. Spain gets 14-19. Carthage gets 20-25. Equal.

From Phillip II
To Nations concerned with Cathage

I put the proposal to the most respected wise men in the country. They unfortunately voted against this division of land when other nations such as yours would be bigger than me. As an extra sweetener to the deal I will sign DMZ in the lands 19 20 21.This is two of mine and only one of Cathage.
I will most likely build a barracks in 19 but this is only as some sort of protection for my people. Unfortunately as well a group of wise men have become my consul and are voted in position. They call it a type of monarchy (which I cant spell) that I would rather not go into.
I ask again would France like to sign a MPP or at the least a DPP so that the elected govements stand together. I already have a DPP with Rome and a MPP with Germany.

Why are you so tense about this, Julius? It seems to me that you might be hiding something. This is now a Russian-Carthage-Spanish situation, so I think if you do not want to aid you ally, you don't have to, but I advise you to allow me to do what my people wish, and that is to liberate the African land to Carthage rule. The world does not evolve around you anymore, Julius, I will do as I please, not as you please. You are not a role model to anyone, and I will not do something on the mere fact that you are doing it. Take your threats of disbaning the PBJ elsewhere, as I can do just fine without your help.

Tsar Peter

[Nemesis, I didn't even know I could go through those sea's. lol. ]

Does DPP stand for Defensive Protection Pact? I know MPP stands for Mutual Protection Pact. Aren't these two the same thing then?

To: Spain
From Russia

I suggst you take the Byzantium idea of land division. This idea is most obviouse to be the solution. Perhaps, if you want territory so much you could purchase 55? If you don't take this idea into further consideration, it would show how smart your wisement really are....

To: Italy
From: Tsar Russia

You choose a simple MPP with Spain over an allie? You can be assured that if Spain does not take this offer, then Russia will be aiding Carthage, and if you declare war on Carthage, it will mean war on me.

i'd like to join.
i kind of skimmed through this thread and i'm a bit confused.
1. just turn 1 has been done right?
2. austria and carthage are the countries left right?
3. the turns are a day each? what time is the deadline?
4. who should i join as? :) give me a few mins, ill decide.

Actually, I think Austria is the only nation left. But if Carthage is open, I would like to inform yo u that he is about to be in a war, and without this war will be the weakest nation on earth.

[I can build docks, troq.]

/quote
GOLD TO SPEND

All nations have 6 gold to spend, meaning that in most cases you can claim the province your army is already in and then move it and claim the province it moves to as well.

Good luck all! There will be another update tomorrow night, so get orders in quick!

Nemesis
/end quote
please some one explain how that works
i see it as. start with 5, build army for 3 on first turn. have 2 left
get 5 more for capitol. have 7. claim one territory for 5, have 2 left, now how do you have enough to claim another?
what am i missing?

also if carthage is taken then by who? the first post doesnt have a name next to it.

From Spain
To Russia

I will not declare war on Cathage but I feel that the map, which everyone agreed to, is fair. Do not push Cathage and me into war because I want to know what you have to gain from us fighting. Since you would have war come to me you would also try to push your “friend” Rome into war.
Trust me, Rome and I would easily take on Cathage, while we are on the subject what would your support be to a nation that is not at war. Also I must regretfully decline your surrender of 55, as we would not subject our people to living near a bullying nation such as your own.

OK, people, let's not get all angry about a little nothing. The PBJ alliance is still around and it will CONTINUE to stay around. Of course, if any ally wishes to leave, that is their prerogative. That would mean, Italy, also cancelling the MPPs you have with me and Russia, if you leave.

About MPPs and DPPs: the difference is, in a DPP, one ally says to the other: "I'll aid you in any war you're in IF you are the one being attacked." In an MPP, it's: "I'll aid you in any war you're in, regardless of whether you're the attacker or defender."

Now, since Italy has DPP with Spain, he is forced to come to Spain's aid IF SPAIN IS ATTACKED BY CARTHAGE. If, on the other hand, Spain does the attacking himself, Italy is under no such obligation. IF Italy signed MPP with Spain [and I hope he does not], then he would have to come to Spain's aid in either case, leaving him absolutely no choice.

About 55: Sorry, it has already been sold to Austria.

Yes, Jason, you can build docks - for 15 gold each. By the time you get enough money, the war will be over...

------

Roddy, I suggest that before you join you read through the whole five pages of events, as it'll help you fit in easier.

Claiming a province costs 3 gold, not 5 - UK changed it.

Also Austria has some deals with me the Byzantines. You pay me 3 gold next turn and 3 more the turn after that - just read through the thread...

I would suggest joining as Austria after the update tonight. It's probably too late to submit orders.

Anyway, good luck! :D

SPAIN AND CARTHAGE: I would like to sign DPPs with both of you.

SWEDEN AND FRANCE: I would like to sign MPP with you.

The Senate refused a Spanish MPP offer in the past and I won't sign one in the future.Barbarossa stated the situation very well;I don't want to leave the PBJ/JBP and believe it has a glorious future,but Peter worries me a bit.He says it is a Russian-Carthage-Sanish situation?Why?Let's leave them alone.However if Spain attacks Carthage and Russia help Carthage I will honor our alliance and fight the Spanish.But I advise not to interfere as we would then also have to fight France and Germany which are very close to Rome.BUT if Carthage attacks Spain and Russia joins them I will fight Russia.

Originally posted by Demetrias
To Sweden.
From Germany
The German Gov. will agree to the map and not take 38 if you will sign a DPP with me. Other wise we will take it this turn because its there and looks nice.


For the security of the Danish people, and for the security of Swedish possessions on the other side of the Baltic, Sweden will accept the proposed DPP.

We hope that our relationship with the Germans will continue in friendship, and not blackmail.

To:France+Sweden
From:Rome

I offer both of you a MPP.

To:Germany
From:Rome

I offer you a DPP.

None of you can fight the other, luckily, because I am in the middle and I am NOT allowing ROP. And neither is Austria for that matter.

Here's the situation:

IF Carthage attacks Spain, the sides are: Spain, Germany, France, Italy, vs Carthage and maybe Russia.

IF Spain attacks Carthage, Spain is fighting Carthage, Russia, Italy, Byzantium. In addition, if France and Sweden sign MPPs with me, they must both join my side: France has an MPP with Spain as well, but he has to join me because I am the defender, or the ally of the defender. So, in a best case scenario, the sides would be Spain-Germany vs Russia-Italy-Byzantium-Carthage-France.

In other words, Carthage, whatever you do DO NOT attack.

To Russia
From Phillip of Spain

We will sign a DPP depending on weather or not the city of Cathage agrees to a DDP with me. I wish to make sure that my borders are safe. I also show concern over your statement "Russian-Carthage-Spanish" where by did Cathage or me ask for your help? I stated that only Rome could be a medium. This is not because I am on friendly terms but because they are a power in the region.
I would like to be on good terms with you but why do you always put Rome in the middle and try to evict them from your alliance. I have stated all along that as long as my claims are respected there would be no alarm. Even when I gave up claim of a province, I am accused of wanting war.
I would like the international community to recognise that any troops on the land stated by the “Constantinople Treaty” (cool name for the map drawn up by troq?), would be an attack on my people weather or not my troops have claimed the land or not.

OOC what time is the update?

I will not sign any MPPs with Mediterranean powers because, as Troq so eloqently states, I'm not a Mediterranean power. I do not seek to be tied up in the Carthage squabble, and I have no intentions of getting involved in it until one of the nations is less than 3 territories away from my nearest (claimed) one.

Sweden will not get involved here, and I refuse MPP suggestions by Byzantium and Rome.

ok.

I am officialy joining as Austria.
I would like not to be Hitler though. i know its just a game, but none the less...I suck at history, so any suggestions for a leader name would be appreciated.

I am reading through the whole thread now and this is what i see that affects Austria:

NAP: is that Non Aggresion Pact?

1.
this SHOULD be edited into the opening post
CLAIMING LAND ONLY COSTS 3 GOLD NOW.
As for the banking, I will now allow banking of up to 10 gold.


2.
To Carthage, Rome and Prussia
From Austria
I wish to sign MPPs with all of you, to guarantee peace amongst our peoples.

To Byzantium
From Austria
You dare say that you own 55? Austria's territorial claims are all the lands surrounding Vienna and 55. Any attempt to sell a territory to us that is already ours will result in war!

3.
a.
Troquelet: I don't have to even know if you're bluffing or not, because if you did move there this turn, you'd be leaving your other provinces that you claimed, especially Albania, open to me .

b.
TO BYZANTIUM
FROM AUSTRIA
Very well. We do not want war, and it seems I made a foolish move at first.
Anyway, I will give you 3 gold next turn, and 3 the turn after.
Fair?
Hitler

i DO NOT understand, why, after screwing up turn 1, and then saying 3.a. uknemesis agreed to 3.b.
I would REALY like to cancel 3.b. i dont see why i would pay you money for land (55)that you can only take at the expence of looseing another land(45)
i dont want a war and i like the map you proposed (it says i get 7, but that is only true if i get 55)
if you take 55, i will take 45 next turn (nothing you can do about it) and then if you try to go into 43 from 55 the next turn, i will go in there with 1 army i build (it not an attack since we go in the same turn) and COULD go in with 2, in which case YOU started the war (the territory is closer to me and was nuetral when we went in) and you would loose that unit and the next turn i would attack 55....

I am NOT paying you any money AND i CLIAM 55!

leaving my post for a couple of hours.
dont have time to PM.
my order are take 33 and 42. hope germany dont take advantage of that knowledge :)

be back soon

To: Tsar Peter of Russia
From: Hannibal of Carthage
Carthage has no intentions of declaring war on Spain unless she enters territory which has been claimed by Carthage. If in the event that war is declared then I welcome your aid in this conflict.
Yours,
Hannibal

To: King Phillip II of Spain
From: Hannibal of Carthage
I shall not agree to any division of lands which rightfully belong to Carthage!! That means that Spain will not be given Province 19, if you choose to set foot upon those lands then you shall face a fight for them!!
Carthage shall not be bent to live by Spain's wishes.
Yours,
Hannibal

To: Julius Ceaser of Rome
From: Hannibal of Carthage
Old enemy, know now that Carthage shall not be ruled by your word or shrink in fear of your forces. If you so choose to aid Spain in war then so be it, but let it be known that Carthage will never crumble or surrender!
Yours,
Hannibal of Carthage

To Sweden
From Russia

Hail, ole friend. Perhaps a MPP would be acceptable to us so that we may protect ourselves from western powers?

To the World:
Russia has finally come to a definet answer to the Carthage controversy:
Russia will NOT support anyone or anything in the Meddetteranean (I CANT SPELL, WHY MUST THEY MAKE A NAME SO DIFFICULT!) border, besides my allies, to save many headaches and Russian lives. Russia will not retire to her land, and hopefully will not need to make anymore drastic decisions for a while.

Oh, and

Austria: Beware of your threats to Byzantium, I will not hesitate to aid an ally.

-Peter

To: Tsar Peter I of Russia
I would sign the MPP if it were null and void in the case of "PBJ" wars, as I have no love for the alliance nor interest to aid it. Also, Byzantium and Rome are Mediterranean powers, so it perplexes me why you chose to sign the alliance in the first place.

If the MPP is not activated because of you going to war for your allies I will accept it.

To:Sweden
From:Rome

That's a very 'generous' offer with the only goal to destroy the PBJ/JPB alliance.I hope,Peter,you doesn't listen on the man in Stockholm.

To:Austria
From:Rome

If you wish to face Byzantium you'll have to face Rome as well.

To:Hannibal
From:Caesar

Right now you and Hitler are the only one's who have not agreed to the Constantinople people.As Russia now won't support you in case of war I won't either.If you don't agree with the treaty and attack Spain you'll have to face Rome's legions once more.

To: Julius Caesar

Appearantly you can't distinguish between indifference and hate. I have no goals of destroying PBJ, but I see you and Barbaross abusing the privelidges granted by such an alliance and it disgusts me.

You're trying to force both Carthage and Austria to comply, which I find to complete distaste. If it helps, I can disagree with it as well in order to make the 'underdog' nations not be subjected to tyrannical imperialism.

I'd rather not get involved, Caesar; I simply don't want to be tangled in you and Barbarossa's diplomatic actions.

To: Hannibal

I wish you the best in standing up for your rights. We cannot aid you, but promise that the Swedish citizens will pray for your morality to shine through and above the other Mediterranean power's desires.

To: Austria (suggestion for name: Franz Josef?)

I too send you my blessing that you can avoid blackmail. This is something that should not be seen on an international scale altogether, and I hope that you will not be squashed by the Roman and Byzantine forces.

To: Tsar Peter I

While I realize your obligationst o your allies, I hope you won't support them in their efforts to either squish Carthage, or in the case of Byzantium, blackmail Austria.

As a friend, I wish you the best of luck in your ventures.

From Spain
To Cathage

I can make it to the land laid out to me in the “Constantinople treaty” before you can so if you decided to enforce your late "claim" to the land which is recognised as mine would be an act of war on your part and lets face it suicide on your part. You are alone and an attack on me would make you smaller and weaker. Lets hope you hold back what you can so that you are not hurt in the process.

OOC are we gonna get a update tonight like you said UK?

Originally posted by Jason The King
Oh, and

Austria: Beware of your threats to Byzantium, I will not hesitate to aid an ally.

-Peter


THREATS??????
a am not threatening anyone!
Byzantium seems to think that because he can get to territory 55 first i should pay him for the privelage of claiming it. but then he should pay me for the privelage of taking 45 since if he goes for 55 then I GET TO 45 FIRST.
he is already bigger then the average allows, and he wants me to PAY HIM just because he seems to think i want 55 more then any other territory i could get instead of it.
what i said earlier about attacking him was purely in the hypothetical eventuality that he tries to claim territories that DIRECTLY BORDER my capitol (ie 43). i am of the firm belief that a war during the expantionist period of time is in NO ONES interests.
i am content with the map that Barborossa proposed, except that i do not see why i should PAY for my 7th province when i can claim it peacefully by getting to it first. I leave it up to Barborossa to decide which of the 2 territories he wants 45 or 55. either choise will leave him at his proposed 9 and me at 7. which is more then fair.

To Austria
From Prussia
I have already excepted your mpp. Now on to Business. Stop talking about war. It is not the right time to be talking about war. Wait. Do not attack Byzantium. We do not have the Power to beat them. I unlike the Willhelm have no wish to fight the world with only one ally.

To Sweden.
from Bismark
I am sorry if you misunderstood my earlier message. i was not black mail but an attempt to insure that the nation i was inviting to border mine was a friend not an enemy. i hope to that ours will be one of friendship and trust not hatred and fear.

To France
From Bismark
I hope that you will remain neutral if war should arise between austria and Byzantium or that you will become our ally. No Nation can support a war on both sides. As such i offer you a nap and/or an Alliance.

To Carthage
Do not continue to threaten war because time does not allow you to become the strongest nation on the board. There have been many comprimises offered by many respected nations. Pick one that soots you best and stop this warmongerring.

To Spain
i suggest you take what ever comprimise is offered as they do not seem to be the peaceful types. As such i ask that you prepare for war with all do haste since it seems we will be plunged into it soon.

MAP UPDATE

Right, all nations are now taken. I had to move for Britain(Juliennew).

First page is updated, I've changed it from Hitler to Einstein(couldn't think of another Austrian lol other than the guy who was killed and triggered World War 1).

Toasty, I've changed Sweden's colour back to the normal one since I hate that other colour lol!

Anyway, the map update(well done all, I got all but one orders in!):

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/uknesiii2.jpg

CREDITS TO SPEND

All nations except Prussia have 10 gold to spend.

Prussia has 6 gold to spend.

Good luck to all!

Nemesis

PS:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/uknesiii2.jpg

Aggh! I have this habit of posting TOO MUCH! Have to restrain myself.

1. Austria 55 is yours. I will respect your claims.

2. It was not blackmail, I offered to SELL 55 to Russia and later Austria. But, I made a mistake. Austria is right, he CAN get there, not first, but at the same time as me. Both of us can send 2 armies there the turn after next, and fight over it, with the winner determined basically by chance. But as I said, I am giving it to him without a fight.

3. Sweden, BUTT OUT OF BYZANTINE AFFAIRS. I sincerely hope that is clear. This is twice you've meddled in things that have nothing to do with you, first Albania and now Bulgaria. If it becomes 3, I will take great pleasure in ridding the world of the arrogant, conspiring, intriguing, self-serving fool that you are. Understood? ;)

[OOC] just roleplay Toasty! And seriously, mind your own business! You're just trying to spark a war where you can get something for yourself, but your neighbors, like Russia and Germany, are much too smart. Germany is brilliant :D

CARTHAGE: You're a fool sir. You can't have all of Africa. I suggest letting Spain have 19 and 20. Learn to compromise.

FROM HERE ON, Byzantium will NOT support either side. I made suggestions, I tried to make you 2 compromise, but you can war it out and I could care less..

Instead of Einstein, you could be Frederick the Great.

Also, Austria, I know the temptation is great, but please do not meddle in 44 or 45. If I were you, that would be my first thought - but I would be forgetting that it's only a 50-50 chance - AND, even if you win, and especially if you lose, Byzantium is a great power and he has great allies as well - and Italy and Russia surround you. So not a good idea :D I sincerely do NOT want war with you. That's why I prefer not to skirmish to see who gets 55. BUT, if you enter 44-45 I must burn Vienna to the ground :( you would leave me with no choice.

I hope you respect the Constantinople map, with the addition of 55 to the Austrian empire.

To: Barborossa of Byzantium
From: Einstein of Austria (always liked scientists:) )

Agreed! i take 55, and stay away from 44 and 45. i have no problem with being 7 provinces big.

good day to you

UK, I hate the navy color :p.

We really don't need another blue.

How about a nice, pale orange color? Would that work? No one else has orange :p.

To Byzantium and Austria

Well done in compromises, friends. I hope you both become models for the whole world to follow.

Tsar Peter


To Sweden

I can assure you rthat the MPP will only cover individual war's, but since you dislike my alliance so much, maybe a DPP would suite your needs a little more? I just think the Russo-Sweden relations will live a long time, and I have all the intentions of keeping it a peaceful life!

To Carthage
From Peter of Russia

Good luck, friend, and I feel great, great sorrow for not being able to aid you. I know I must carry this burden of coward for the rest of my life. :(

To: Tsar Peter of Russia
From: Hannibal of Carthage
Do not worry, Carthage shall remember your cowardness aslong as you and your heirs live!! This shall not be forgetten!!!
Yours,
Hannibal

To: Barbarossa of Byzantium
From: Hannibal of Carthage
We shall never come to a comprimise such as the one you suggest!! Your comprimise leaves the people of Carthage with five territories, while Spain gets seven!!! Such a treaty would only aid Spain in becoming stronger and eventually destroying Carthage at her own will!!
I have since drawn up a new treaty for the division of North African lands which shall be decided between Spain and Carthage only.
Yours,
Hannibal

To: King Phillip II of Spain
From: Hannibal of Carthage
Due to mounting European pressure I believe that maybe we might be able to come to a comprimise concerning our recent squabble.
Carthage would be prepared to give the lands of Province 20 to Spainish control while Carthage holds Provinces 19 through to 25. This would give us both 6 provinces in total meaning we shall be equal.
Let it be known though that should you reject this proposal then their shall be no other.
This is a take it or leave it deal, now you must either take it or leave it, what shall it be?

To Carthage
From Austria

Thats the spirit! It is refreshing to know there are still rulers in this world who will not castrate the future of their peoples just to please some burocrats on the other side of the world who wont even commit forces to a conflict of interests but would insist on you seeing it their way nontheless.

Dont know if it matters in the grand sceme of things but, Austria fully supports Cathages final attempt at a fair and peaceful resolution to his conflict with Spain.

Einstein of Austria

From Spain
To Cathage

The people of Spain will not take any other deal than the one laid out in the “Constantinople treaty”. I will hurry to take 19 and 20. I have already been most generous so DON’T DEMAND MORE LAND. If you attack me you face the furry of the Spanish armies.
I think you should learn that if we signed a DPP than I wouldn’t attack you, as you believe so sign it to put your miss-placed fears aside.

If I understand correctly, these are the alliances to date?

UKnemesis: Is this the type of NES where backstabbing has no penalty, or is there the +3+2+1 penalty?

Troq: No penalty.

And cool looking chart! Hope you update it every now and then, it makes life easier for me :)

Nemesis

From Spain
To Britain

I see from the latest graph that you are short an ally. I think we could be great freinds and I propose we sign a MPP. Our distance is only a short distance with the seas so we could assit you with out more than 2 turns notice, by PM or otherwise.

To Sweden

I think we also could be good freinds and also ask you to sign a MPP. I know we are not near each other but any one who attacked us would face a two front war.

To: Sweden
From Russia

I know you will not hesitate to delcine Spain's offer, correct?

Gah, Troq, you beat me to it! :D.

I'll put mine up, anyways :p.

To: Spain
We are not interested in involvement in the Mediterranean, and therefore must turn down your NAP, but thank you for the offer.

Diplomacy Chart:

Http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Diplochart.gif

MODERATOR MOVES

I moved for Britain, Austria and Sweden.

MAP UPDATE

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/uknesiii3c.jpg

GOLD TO SPEND

Britain and Sweden both have 10 gold to spend

Rome, Carthage, and Byzantium all have 12 gold to spend

Spain has 14 gold to spend

France, Prussia, Russia and Austria all have 16 gold to spend

Good luck to all!

NEXT UPDATE: Tomorrow night

So get your orders in quick!

Nemesis

PS: LINK
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/uknesiii3c.jpg

Another cool graph.

Be interesting to see which is updated the most often(just encouraging some competition lol, as it will keep the graphs updated and make my life easier!).

Nemesis

To Austria
From Prussia
I hope i can convience you to sign a dpp or mpp with spain. If you don't there could be conflicts with in our alliance and i find this is not something i would welcome. So if you could sign one of these two agreements with spain.

To Brittian and France.
The German people are always looking for friends in this world if you would like to join an alliance with our nation or even a nap we would graciously accept the offer.

Again as stated before I'd like to sign DPPs with both Carthage and Spain.

wow. when do the turns go? UKNemesis, when is your 'tonight'? its only 3:00 pm my time. thought i had a bunch of time left (not that i know what i was waiting for or care since i would have done what got done anyway)

Whoh! Your graph is much, much cooler Toasty ;)

Here are the differences between them that I could spot. The players involved will set us straight on the matter:

1. In mine, Sweden-Russia have NAP, in yours they have DPP.

2. In mine, Rome and Spain have DPP, in yours they have nothing.

Anyway, UK, my orders are in! Nice to have the game moving fast. I'd do it in SUPERNES, only updates take hours - 9 Player nations and 8 Non-Player..

Also, Austria want to sign an NAP? You're my last neighbor without one lol, so about time. :D

Troq, I believe we did set up a DPP.

And I guess I missed it with Rome/Spain (oops!)

To: Tsar Peter I
I might not have said it before, but I accept your DPP offer :).

OOC - UK lives in the Uk so to him 3 est / 2 central is 8 PM.

To:Prussia
From:Rome

As we will soon share a common border I offer you a NAP.

lol, my tonight is whatever time I get on the computer and have time to update. Tonight I was bored at 8PM and so updated(had enough orders), whereas other nights it can be 1 or 2 AM my time.

Just get your orders in quick :p !

Nemesis

Yeah, better to do it as soon as you read the update - after all unless there's a war there's not really much diplomacy to do yet, thanks to the Constantinople Map...

the game is still in the claiming phase;as Austria and Byzantium have settled their conflict, conflicts could be in Africa or possibly between Russia and one of its numerous neighbours.

troq, talk about toot your own horn :)

Hey, it's what I do best ;) :lol:

From Cathage
To Prussia Britain and Austria

I think we should form a MPP between us all. This way the East could not beat one of us down. I may be out of the way of you nations but I am only a few seas away from the soft underbelly of the Byzantium Empire and in an emergency, I could fight my way into Russia.
Sadly I would find it hard to invade Rome, as they are my good friends of mine. Besides I will be calling for Rome to leave the Eastern Pact as surly they would have seen the attitude taken when Russia and Byzantium have power. I do not want to see the time when nations are being bullied because they are alone, but it is here.
We must band together or they will take us down one by one. I am protected by the seas the same as Britain but for how long can Austria and/or Prussia last against a determined attack by the east.

Announcment!

From: Austria, Sweden and Prussia
(/ooc Demetrias do you prefer Germany or Prussia as the nation name? :confused:/ooc)

We are forming an allience to curb the arrogance of the PB&J down a bit. No longer will they think themselves the superpower of the world and presume to order other nations around!

Einstein of Austria

PS as a formality
Austria sends the paperwork for a MPP to Sweeden
already have one with Prussia :)

"Soft Underbelly!?" 3 fleets each in L will stop any Carthaginian invasion. Don't be a fool.

To World
From Russia

This makes me laugh. What kind of arrogance are we? We have made no demands, except for the threats if one of us are attacked. Hell, Byzantium has even given a territory to Austria without a fight or further diplomacies. I believe that those nations forming an alliance to counter ours are just looking for a fight. Perhaps I was wrong about Carthage, they are a bunch of warmonger fools.

To: Sweden
From Tsar of Russia

I know you are better educated then to side with a warmongering alliance like the western nations. Hell, you aren't even a western nation.

LOL. Russia, don't sink to their level. They want war, don't give them an excuse for it. Then, when they DO attack, everyone will see very clearly exactly who the aggressors are.

I doubt anyone will take the SAP alliance very seriously anyway. :D I got to the name first! :lol:

/ooc troq thanks for the allience name :)
:rotfl:
2 minutes of falling off my chair laughing.
SAP !!!! :)
/ooc

Also, I'd like to form an International Union. This would last only as long as there are unclaimed provinces. It would state that anyone who broke the Constantinople Map [except in North Africa, that's their own affair] would face war from all the nations.

For example, if Spain suddenly took 26, or I took 53, or Prussia took 70, etc, then every nation would declare war on them.

Again, the provinces 19-20-21 don't count for this treaty.

Signatures so far: Byzantium.

From Austria
To World
i will NOT sign that agreement (Barborossa latest)
and i urge everyone else to bycot (sp?) it too.

i am still appalled that no one stepped forward to spit on that proposed map from the very beggining (im appaled at myself too BTW). Byzantine proposed a truly self serving vision of the world and everyone (except Carthage) just fell right into step, WE should be ashamed of our selves.

Oh really? And what amendments would you make? Would you give yourself Moscow? :lol: you're pretty self-serving too, you know. Everyone was, at this time period :D

It's boycott ;)

/ooc there was a slight error in the translation of you last message and therefor.../ooc

are you OFFERING ME MOSCOW???

you realy are strange! do you think you can keep russia as an ally if you so willingly give away their capitol?

if russia signs an agreement that says i get to have moscow, then i will gladly sign your 'everything as planed' agreement.

Einstein the flabergased (why do i bother using words i dont know how to spell?) of austria

lol - that's all I will say.

Barborossa, you hear that, your own allies are laughing at you!

/ooc
ok, i am in a very silly mood right now, if someone is reading this at a later date to see how this game developded, i am very sorry for the confusion i caused you with that episode.
gotta go
UK i sent in my orders, (wonder when today's 'tonight' is) :).
/ooc

flabbergasted. No, I'm not offering you Moscow! I'm just asking, what changes would YOU make to the Constantinople Map? And because I know you're so self serving I predicted that you would ask for Moscow, [in other words, a ridiculous demand] and you PROVED ME RIGHT lol! so...

Oh, yeah, nearly forgot, when's the update UK? It's... let's see... around 8:30 right now in England...

Rome signs such an International Union as proposed by Barbarossa.

To:Austria

Be aware that the PBJ/JBP is much stronger than your laughable SAP,but we will never attack you because we are not only strong,but wise as well.

To:Spain

I suggest you don't sign an alliance with the Western Europeans as you are a Southern European like me.Plus they all have Heretics in their country,in Southern France,Bohemia or Saxony.I would be willing to enlarge our DPP to a MPP if you don't sign more than NAPs with Austria or Germany.

From Spain
To Rome

I have already a MPP with Pussia so I dont know weather or not you still want a MPP. I advise you do as this might go some way to easeing the mood of Russia/Turky and Austria/Prussia.

To Cathage

I know we have had our petty arguements over land but if we signed a MPP than we could both be a power.

To Britain

I havent seen you around lately but would you also want to sign a MPP so that we could create a NAVY PACT so that we would not be seen as outsiders by the rest of europe.

MAJOR RULE CHANGE!!

Sorry to rush this onto you guys, but I've just realised one thing that always made the NES unbalanced, and should help ease the problem.

From now on, to build a town, upgrade it to a dockyard or barracks, or upgrade one of those to a city, you MUST have an army in that province(and it must stay there that turn).

Basically, a new army cannot be used, as it wouldn't have begun the turn in that province. Instead, the army must have moved there the turn before, and stay there one turn to build the building.

You cannot build more than one building per province per turn(ie; you can't build a city straight away by paying 25 gold).

Finally, you may not build anything in a province the same turn you claim it, as this counts as building.

Any questions?

Also, any orders that have been sent that say to build a town in a place where there is no army will have the money banked instead.

Nemesis

Also, you have about 2 or 3 hours to update or get orders in, as I am not doing the update till late tonight.

Nemesis

I don't know why anyone would want to build a city anyway. The total expense to build one is 30 gold, which means you don't start turning a profit for 15 turns. Meanwhile a Barracks/Dockyards takes 6 turns, and a Town just 2! So, it's smarter just to build towns, and build Barracks/Dockyards where absolutely necessary.

---------

Barbarossa anounces he will be building Towns all over, and Barracks in 44 and 49. He will also build a Dockyard in 45. The project will cost 70 gold in all: therefore, it will take four or five years [days] to complete, since Byzantium's annual income, without upkeep, will be 29 gold.

Peter of Russia states his plans to the people of Russia concerning Russia's industrialization (at this time's point of perspection, of course lol).

In the future town's will dot the provinces of Russia.

Miliarily-wise, Peter plots his strategic location for the barracks outside Moscow; to be installed in province 64.

Ports have been marked to be developed in locations in 63 and 53.

Before the industrialization, the economy would be generating a measly 29 gold a turn. But with the towns in the provinces, the total income will be a grand 35g!


To Sweden
From Tsar of Russia

Friend, I know you would not be foolish enough to join the other alliance, would you? If you do, I would have to downgrade our MPP to a NAP, for protection purposes. I hope you do not forget our friendly past, and our even friendlier future.

/ooc
oh dang, and here i was building towns. now i gotta rethink this whole thing

OOC are we getting a update tonight? Come on I might not be able to get to my pc for a few days so I want to do my orders while I can.

It'll be up soon, but I didn't have any orders from you Rev.

Anyway, don't send any now, it's too late. Wait till after the update.

Nemesis

Sorry it's late, got distracted by the DemoGame link in Toasty's sig lol.

MODERATOR MOVES

I moved for Britain and Spain.

I had to bank some money for people due to the new town hall rule, but luckily none went above the limit. Sorry about the quick new rule guys(see above for more info)!

MAP UPDATE

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/uknesiii4.jpg

GOLD THIS TURN

Britain has 18 gold to spend!

France has 31 gold to spend!

Spain has 22 gold to spend!

Carthage has 17 gold to spend!

Rome has 17 gold to spend!

Prussia has 28 gold to spend!

Austria has 21 gold to spend!

Byzantium has 23 gold to spend!

Russia has 24 gold to spend!

Sweden has 20 gold to spend!

MAJOR RULE CLARIFICATION

There were a few loans going around this turn, and I've let them remain normal for this turn(receive it, spend it right away).

But from this turn forward, if you send gold to someone, it is added to their money for next turn, basically you are banking money for them(which is why you may not send more than what would take them to the 10 gold limit).

So if you send money from now on, they spend it the turn after.

Good luck all!

Nemesis

PS: LINK
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/uknesiii4.jpg

Whoops, one mistake on the map! Sweden's fleet in F is actually supposed to be in E(that's when I was distracted by the DemoGame link lol, and forgot about that move!).

Nemesis

that square in russia's province 62, i assume thats a town.


i thought the capitols were towns too, how come they circles? or is that just so we know where the capitols are?

No, the capitals are cities. You build towns for 5g in a province - at first, they are the only thing you can build in a province. Then, once you have a town, you can build either a dock or barracks, but only one (a barracks or docks) in a town. Then, once you have either a barracks/dockyard, you can then upgrade to a city (not sure how much a barracks/dockyard, or to upgrade a city is, check on first page). When a town, it generates 5g, a city generates 8g. You capital is a city.


To Sweden

Friend,

I thought it was quie clear that 64 was to be Russian. You proposed it as to the solution for 59 being Swedish. I am sorry, friend, but if you do not give back 64, I will be faced to take 59 to compensate, peacefully or militarily. Please, let us not escalate this dissagreement. I expect the territory in 4 months (1 turn) to be clear of Swedish armies.

-Peter, Tsar of Russia.

France,

I do wonder why and how you recieved such an income. I dear not mettle in French affairs, but are worried for your nieghbor, Rome, who is a nation in the PB&J.

-Peter of Russia

I knew it. Sweden wants to take the whole pie. Russia, I suggest you cancel all deals with Sweden, until this is sorted out. I want the world to know that Russia has my full support in any actions he wishes to take against Sweden and Sweden's allies.

SWEDEN: Retreat from 64, which you promised to Russia, or face war with Russia and his allies.

AUSTRIA and PRUSSIA: I suggest you cut ties with Sweden. As a liar, how do you know he won't backstab YOU next? Plus, if Russia goes to war with Sweden, I will be forced to go to war with you, since we are their respective allies. I don't want this. Therefore, defer your MPPs before it's too late!

SWEDEN again: If this is a mistake, sorry if I am over-reacting. But, since you've proven your character in other ways before, you'll forgive me if I don't trust you farther than I can throw you.

To: Barbarossa of Byzantium

"Shown my character"?! Your dislike for me, perhaps, but in no way have I shown myself to be devious or untrustworthy. Your attempts to blackmail the world into conforming to what best suits your piddly little desires is what I protest, and I refuse to sink to your level by cheating my friends. I find your statements and your actions deplorable, and if you wish to go to war with me so be it, but let me assure you that the world holds a far lesser opinion of your bloated, egotistical satire than it does of my well-placed cynicism.

I'm half-tempted to keep the territory, simply because of you feeling the need to put in your wooden nickel. You should stay out of matters that do not concern you, as you so eloquently told me while you essentially made sure that Carthage was nothing more than a Byzantine pet.

I'll put it in fine words: "Shove it."

To: Tsar Peter I of Russia

Rest assured I will be evacuating the province. You understand that, as PBJ has exerted an overpowering influence for quite some time now, that there are general waves of hostility eminating from all directions because of it.

However, this was merely a typo case, and I apologize. I suppose I need to spell-check my letters to my generals :).

To Sweden
From Russia

I didn't doubt it once. My armies will be sent to the province next turn to reinstate Russian order. My we live in peace. Let it be said, let it be done.

To Byzantium
From Russia

I thank you for your support in this matter concerning Sweden. You should count on the support of Russia in your future squabbles as well.

To The World
From Russia of PB&J

I do not see the reason of condemning the alliance. We have made NO, NO, NO, NO, NO demands of ANYTHING as an alliance (excluding this incident with Sweden). We have merely stated of a "you attack him, you attack me" thing. The alliance is not to be blamed! Most of the problems have been indivudual - Russia and Carthage, Byzantium and Austria, Rome and Carthage, Byzantium and Sweden. It has not been an alliance world. Deal with it.

-Peter of Russia

SWEDEN: I'm glad it was merely a mistake. I hope the general responsible receives his just desserts. ;)

You say it doesn't concern me, yes it does concern me because it concerns my ally by MPP. At no time, on the contrary, did I note YOU had an MPP with Carthage or Austria, whose business with me you DID see fit to meddle in.

I am not especially surprised to hear that "shove it" is what counts as fine language among the Swedish.... I hear the King of Sweden farts his Proclamations. Perhaps you can set me straight on this matter, does he rather belch them? That would not especially surprise me either. [just roleplay Toasty! No hard feelins'...]

---------

I notice meanwhile that Corsica has been taken by Carthage, not Italy. I now see why Carthage refused to sign the Constantinople Treaty: he wished to steal other people's land. Two can play at that game, Hannibal. Beware. I give you one turn to explain, apologize, and evacuate.

TO MEDDLING SWEDEN: YES, THIS IS A THREAT! Deal with it! I have to, because Italy is my ally by MPP.

To the World
From Spain

I hope you have now seen Cathage true colures after taking land they had never even claimed let alone told anyone about. I call not for war but diplomatic pressure by the allies of the PJ&B

To: PB&J Alliance
From: Hannibal Of Carthage
I shall not be ruled by a slimey bunch of Despots like yourselves!! I denounce the Constantinople Treaty as all it does is secure your own power and leave myself extremely weak.
I hearby state that Carthage shall not leave Province 26 until we are equally instated into the Constantinople Treaty and given an equal share of the land.
Yours,
Hannibal

To: The World
From: Hannibal of Carthage
Can you not all see the trickery?! According to the Constantinople Treaty Byzantium shall claim 9 Provinces, Russia 8 and Italy 7 while a nation like myself only gains 5!!!! What kind of fair treaty gives its Allies the majority of land and leaves other nations with a small share?
I say we should all stand-up for ourselves and not be pushed down by the PB&J, if they want a fair share of the land then they should take it themselves, not draw up false "treaties" and claim everyone must abide by them or else!!
I shall not be a pet dog controlled by the PB&J and would rather die than know that I let them control me...
Yours,
Hannibal

To Constaninople
From Berlin
Dear Barbarossa. i don't think you have any more then two signitories to that Constaninople treaty. So i can hardly see as how this event should see international entervention. The constaninople treaty really is an unffair agreement in regards to the balkans but no one but your allies or austria could complaim about it so it is something the rest of us will do nothing about right now. Since Spain and Rome where the ones falted by carthage why don't you let them ravage it and stay out of the whole affair. i am sure two world powers are enough to finnish the job or force there own concesions.

To World
From Austria

I am of the opinion that Carthage should be allowed to keep 26.
spain, having taken 2 provinces in africa is at 7 as it is, and should lay no claim to 26. Rome is the ally of the BIGGEST nation in the world, and if Byzantium REALY wants its friend to be on equal footing with the rest of the world (meaning have his fair share of 7 provinces), THEN BYZANTIUM SHOULD GIVE A PROVINCE TO ROME!

i do not understand what ENTITLES RUSSIA to have 8 provinces!
i believe that since Sweeden claimed territories 64 and 59 first, AND has a CLEAR claim to 65, let him keep em

RUSSIA DO NOT START A WAR by ATTACKING SWEDISH territories.

tell you the truth its prety dam even for now! (carthage and britain might disagree)

the PB&J allience has 9+7+6 = 22
the SAP allience has 8+7+7=22

so both alliances have one province more then the average should give, at the expence of carthage and england (the have 6 each)

i do not agree that both of the 'disputed' territories should be given to PB&J ONLY becuase they used to think that they would be the biggest and baddest around.
AGAIN i urge Russia to reconsider their unreasonable demand to Sweden.

(if your reply is gonna be: he already agreed. with the support of his friends i think he will conquer his unreasonable fear of russia, that was instilled in him by the early days of the PB&J, and change his mind)

Einstein the Dismissive (of PB&J's 'demands') of Austira


PS to Carthage
WAY TO GO in settling (some of?) your land problems PEACEFULLY (he didnt start ANY war).

To Austria
From Russia

Austria, you talk about, along with the rest of the world, for people staying out of other nation's buisness. This makes me laugh. Very peacefully did me a Sweden settle our disputes. We are agreed. You have no place to put wordds in the King of Sweden's mouth. I can have 8 provinces because I CAN GET TO 8 PROVINCES!. Just because you can't dosn't mean everyone has to downsize for you. Sounds to me that the SAP is the bully, and is just trying to start a fight. Just cool down.

jason the king
/quote
When a town, it generates 5g, a city generates 8g. You capital is a city.
/end quote

i think you wrong about the 8g for capitol, where does it say that?
i reread the rules, it says towns, barracks, docks, cities generate 5. besides, if we got 8 for our capitol, then why'd we start with 5, and then barely had enough to claim 2 territories the 2nd turn?

UKnemesis, if you could clarify this for us... thanks

nono, your right, roddy. we would have 8 in the begining then

to Russia
from austria

quoting you
I can have 8 provinces because I CAN GET TO 8 PROVINCES!.
end quote
SO CAN SWEDEN, AND he did it FIRST
why should he give it to you?
you DIDN'T get to 8 provinces. you only got to 7.
Sweden got to 8, so he should keep them.

and what does me only having 7 have to do with anything? i am not claiming that i should be given an 8th province.
i am just voicing my opinion and
/quote your ally, Byzantium
You say it doesn't concern me, yes it does concern me because it concerns my ally
/end quote

so, as was so eloquently put by my friend sweden-
"shove it" :)

of course the final decicion can only rest with King Gustavus of Sweden,
but as his ally, i feel i have more of right to advise him then you do, especialy since you are persuing your own interests and i am just telling him to protect his own

Einstein the plageristic (sp?, i mean i quote/plagerize people)of Austria

From Spain
To SAP

I think we should invite Sweden to SAP (SAPS) so that pressure from Russia does not concern his decision. We wouldn’t want Russia to contradict herself in that if you can take land than you should.

seems to have been a bit of confusion about SAP.
I had aproached Sweeden and then Prussia to join it and they both agreed, so i anounced it to the world.

i see no problem with Spain joining, especialy since you are already MPP with Prussia. Unless someone else has an objection, which i doubt, Welcome to our allience!
and i see you agree with me about the sweeden/russia situation. :)

/ooc
UKnemesis, i assume a province cant just be 'handed' over to another nation, once claimed it has to be conquered?
the people would not want to switch nationality just cause their leader sais that for diplomacy's sake they have to
/ooc
another note about the sweden/russia situation.
IF sweden decides to hand its territory over to russia.
russia would have to ATTACK it, causing:
casualties (at the least the swedish militia, at most all of russias attacking force)
Patriotism rating downgrades (another cost to russia)
not to mention Sweden's loss of money that would have been generated this turn by the province this. (ok so i mentioned it :))

who will cover all those expences?

if the disputed territory went to russia then the russian/swedish border would be 3 swedish provinces bordering 2 russian provinces, making 5 provinces that would have to be a demilitarized zone (one of which reaches to the other side of sweden).
where as if sweden keeps it then the border is only a total 3 territories wide. which makes it much easier to demilitarize ( or arm in the event of hostilities)

SOME NOTES TO KEEP IN MIND:

1. Sweden did not want the province in question, that is, 64. He ceded that to Russia, when they signed an agreement giving Russia 64 in exchange for Sweden getting 59. Sweden has admitted it was a typo. For all purposes of the game, let's assume that he DID send the army to 65. It's just a map error, a moderator error, not a playing error. Also, as noted the fleet is in E not F.

2. Italy claimed Corsica in the first few pages of the game. Corsica is culturally closer to the European nations than to the African ones. Carthage has made no claims. Or rather, he has made one very unreasonable claim, he claims all of Africa. Despite everyone else's attempts to dissuade him, he threatened war with two much bigger and more powerful nations, Spain and Italy, to say nothing of Byzantium or Britain. He TOTALLY REFUSED to compromise, even though Spain could obviously get to the disputed provinces first. He did not use diplomacy, he did not offer to buy some of the land, he just threatened Spain! So, when his own stupidity has lost him land that could have been his if he'd been smarter, why should he go stealing other people's land? So he can get a "fair share"? Do you really think he's entitled to 7 provinces when he can barely keep his paws on 3?

3. Take Sweden on the other hand, Sweden had a possible total of 5 provinces, if Russia moved fast. Noticing this, Sweden befriended Russia and quickly made a few deals with him, earning his protection over Sweden's claims to 59 and Denmark. Sweden now has 7 provinces. Know why? BECAUSE HE GOT THEM FOR HIMSELF. The world doesn't GIVE you a nice big kingdom. It gives you 1 province. If you surround yourself with enemies and end up with just 3 or 4 provinces like Carthage, that's YOUR OWN TOUGH CHEESE. If it gives a good ruler like me 9 provinces, that's only due to my good diplomacy. I cannot BELIEVE the suggestions I am hearing for me or Italy to give up land to accomodate some fool who doesn't belong on a throne! The fact that I have more land than another nation, PROVES that I am more fit to rule those lands than that nation.

4. Let me tell you, these are my plans. 9 provinces are enough for me, and I will just sit down and be rich. I don't have plans on Carthage, Austria, Russia, Italy, or any other nation. HOWEVER, I will protect my allies' interests. And Corsica is one of these.

I suggest Spain, Italy, and Byzantium threaten to declare joint war on Carthage if he does not remove himself from Corsica.

Also UKnem, what's the actual situation in Corsica? I notice an Italian army on a fleet. Did they bounce, or what?

From Spain
To Cathage

Your actions have showed that you are a crude and selfish nation who must be limited as a nation. If you do not evacuate from Corsica than I will advance into your land so that you realise that every nation cannot just invade. Do not follow the Russian example of taking land because you see it.
I would prefer if you at least started commutations with Rome over the Island of Corsica. Not that I wouldn’t mind taking the land I claimed originally but I’m sure you would. Also my fleets are now on orders to sink yours do not come into the seas of H I and J.

Originally posted by The Troquelet
1. Sweden did not want the province in question, that is, 64. He ceded that to Russia, when they signed an agreement giving Russia 64 in exchange for Sweden getting 59. Sweden has admitted it was a typo. For all purposes of the game, let's assume that he DID send the army to 65. It's just a map error, a moderator error, not a playing error. Also, as noted the fleet is in E not F.


Yes I made a mistake about the fleet(only on the map, the orders were fine there), but don't blame me about the province! I was as shocked as the rest of you when Toasty ordered his troops into 64, but I didn't question it because this game is all about backstabbing etc.

Anyway, Toasty can peacefully hand over the province so long as both nations agree.

However, I will NOT allow an edit to cover this mistake, as I'm afraid it was an error in the orders to his armies, not my error.

Finally, Carthage claimed Corsica, but for some reason Rome only boarded their fleet, they didn't try to go to Corsica(strange, I think Kennelly may have been thinking of A Beacon of Hope's transport system.

Anyway, there was no skirmish(they wouldn't have bounced, they would have fought).

Nemesis

to:Byzantium
from Austria

while i am uninvolved and powerless in the whole Carthage situation, and i just invited one of his biggest rivals into an allience i do want to say something.
Why does different logic aply to your allyes then to anyone else?

i summarize parts of your "Notes to keep in mind":
1. i dont know what you said there. are you implying that UKNemesis did something that was not ordered? or sweden was UNABLE to do what he did? or are you ONLY refering to sweden saying that what happened was a mistake by his generals?(typo in the orders)
pick one, you bunch them all together when ALL of them could NOT be true. Only one (maybe 2) can be true.

2 Carthage made 'mistakes' and should therefore be stuck with 5 provinces. He claimed all of africa, but couldn't take it fast enough, so HE's Screwed.

3. Russia Claimed 8 provinces but DIDN"T move to get them, so Sweden should give up the territory he DID MOVE FAST enough to take.

4. 9 is enough for you? it would be enough for me too. you do not rule well! you just overextended yourself in order to claim as much as posible.
i could (i said COULD not will, this is NOT a threat) EASILY take 44 this year, and YOU AND YOUR ALLIES couldnt do ANYTHING to stop it.

the main point of this 'speech' is to show the difference in logic you use in 2 and 3 depending on which side of the same argument is your ally.

Einstein the Watchful of Austria

/totaly OOC

UKnemesis

/Quote
Anyway, Toasty can peacefully hand over the province so long as both nations agree.
/end quote

is that an official rule? or just an exeption? i dislike it as a rule as it seems to me to go against logic. if all the people are so hostile that armies of allies cant exist(walk through) in each others territory, how could one just hand over a province.
but i would dislike it even more if it was an exception (if we start with exeptions, we will never stop)

RoddyVR: I never make exceptions unless I am at fault.

In this case I am not, but that rule is fine by me, as the people didn't really get much of a say in the matter(if Russia and Sweden want, the people in that province can vote on who they would prefer, but they'd probably say independent if that was an option).

Anyway, I can't see why you'd want to give territory to another nation, as the whole point of the NES is to win at any cost. So as it won't happen much, that rule is fine.

Nemesis

to sweden
from austria

where are you?
im arguing with the PB&J and raising my own blood presure when it could all be for nothing. If you have decided to give province 64 to russia, then i might as well shut up about it and turn my attention to interior affairs of state like industrializing my nation.

i am afraid that if i keep up this argument, it wont be long before the PB&J gets tired of my endless rambling and decides to kick me off the planet just to quiet down the airwaves.:)

please either state your intention publicly or at the least send me a PM as to your plans. Note that while i urge you to keep the province i will stand by you and your decision either way.

Einstein 'under doctors' orders' of austria

Sweden HAS ceded the province I believe. No worries Roddy :D more to follow.

To: Barbarossa of Byzantium

You know, I notice incredible hipocrisy in your statements. "Whoever gets there first," yet "declare war on anyone who doesn't adhere to the Constantinople territory division." Policies that are true when they are beneficial to you.

I'll tell you this: by your incessant meddling and proclaimations that everyone must adhere to order, but its about getting there faster, I think I might follow your proposition to the other one, stick out my tongue and scream "though cheese" to your rotten proposals and attempts to subjugate your neighbors.

Unless you allow Carthage to keep Corsica, and tear down that bogus treaty about declaring war on anyone who doesn't stay fixed on the Constantinople treaty I will not relinquish control of 64. Keep in mind that your stubborness in this situation will only hurt your ally, and you'll have to bare the guilt.

I'm sick and tired of your pompous demands and your pushing down on Austria and Carthage.

If this is not done by the next turn, Sweden will retain 64 and thereby inevitably face war with Russia--at the fault of Byzantium.

Well Austria. That's some great short-term logic, and some AWFUL long-term logic.

Ok, you misunderstood some of my points which is totally understandable.

2. Carthage is NOT screwed because he couldn't TAKE all of Africa. He is screwed because he refused to compromise, to offer to buy the land, etc, to get allies and threaten war with Spain. He did nothing except say, invade this and I'll destroy you. Is Spain really going to listen to that? Carthage is weak, Carthage has no allies. Carthage never gave a single reason that was acceptable to Spain why Spain should NOT take that land. In fact, he just made Spain take it faster! So, Carthage SHOULD have been more diplomatic. That would include as I said, making compromises, offering to buy land, getting allies at Spain's rear, like Britain or France, so they could threaten a 3-front war against Spain. That's what I would have done, at least, and I'm sure it would have convinced Spain in a hurry. Because he wasn't diplomatic he IS screwed.

3. Sweden and Russia WERE diplomatic with each other and made a deal. That deal, since they both signed it, should be stuck to. It says 64 is Russia's, and Sweden+58+Denmark is Sweden's. Both of them swore to protect each other's claims. Therefore Sweden should give the land back to its rightful owner Russia. And, he already has.

4. You say: "I could take 44 this year." This I presume with the 3 armies from 42-43-45.

I say: "You could easily take 44. However, I am not worried. If you were sane, you would never take 44. For several reasons. Number 1, I could easily retake it next turn. You have forgotten that it's just 2 moves away from my building center. Therefore, the builds I made this turn, could easily retake it. Number 2, you are starting an aggressive war. This would activate my MPPS with Russia and Italy, throwing you into a three front war. Number 3, you have nobody who would back you up if you attacked 44. You have no claim to the land, and few allies who have anything to profit from such a war. Carthage is the only one I can think of, and he will soon be occupied in a war with Spain and Italy. If not, a few fleets can block him. Enemies a sea or more away are never any threat."

See, even when I LOOK over-extended I am not. I am much more powerful than you, simple addition shows that, I have more allies, and above all I have more maneuverability, because of the way the provinces are arranged in the Balkans.

Ah Sweden. I knew you'd blackmail me yourself eventually. Try to tear apart the PBJ, eh? Russia can tear YOU apart, especially with my economic help, and that of Italy.

You're an idiot Sweden. If you break YOUR deal, YOU are at fault. YOU HAVE NO, ZERO, ZIP EXCUSES FOR BREAKING A DEAL. If you do, face war with Russia and Byzantium.

Oh Sweden, how I feel sorry for your people to be ruled by such froth. You have quite a bit to lose at this point, you know. Not just your reputation for being a backstabber and a treatybreaker. Here, we could deprive you of your throne. Back down now, before we have to burn Stockholm.

Clear?

[PS - I thought you weren't going to interfere in Mediterranean affairs? :lol: proves how dependable you are at last...]

Austria

Sweden has already ceded it to me. Pay attention. [:)]

-Peter of Russia

To the World:

I could have, if I didn't believe Sweden, taken the province 59 before he did, but since we made a deal I let him take it. It could have been mine in 2 turns, while it took Sweden 3. Even if sweden hurried and madfe it first prority, during that time I could have took one of his provinces on his pensula. Austria, STOP TRYING TO START A FIGHT!

You know, people have really misinterpreted what I said. HERE IT IS IN ONE SENTENCE SO PEOPLE CAN'T KEEP GETTING MAD AT ME LOL!

It is not a question of CAN I GET THERE FASTER. It is a question of CAN I CONVINCE MY NEIGHBORS AND COMPETITORS THAT I SHOULD RULE THAT PROVINCE, either with threats, money, allying, etc.

Carthage did nothing to convince Spain, he just threatened war. If he'd allied with Italy and France, Spain would have been more cautious. If he had then offered to buy the province Spain probably would have been more than glad.

On the other hand, Byzantium convinced its neighbors that it should rule the lands it now does rule. So, for example, did Sweden.

DOES THIS EXCUSE BREAKING A TREATY JUST TO GET MORE LAND, LIKE SWEDEN IS DOING? No, because he will face war for his actions unless he backs down. Therefore, he HASN'T convinced his neighbors, and he deserves everything he WILL get, like the destruction of Stockholm, unless he sees reason.

LOL, HE HAS ALREADY SAID HE WOULD CEDE THE TERRITORY, NO MORE CONTROVERCY! LOL

In other words, as Jason puts it well, Toasty made treaties to get himself land he couldn't possibly have got on his own. In the meantime, he sacrificed a bit of land that was near to him and far from Russia. It was not really a sacrifice because, as soon as 59 was taken care of, he backpedalled on the deal and took 64 for himself as well.

In other words, he's a backstabber and a liar.

RUSSIA: Whatever action you decide to take on Sweden will be supported by 12 Byzantium gold pieces every turn.

To: Tsar Peter I

I feel very badly that I have to go against my friend because of his associations. But PBJ, lead by that moron Barbarossa, has tried time and time again to assert an overpowering domination that has been completely misplaced.

I am no demon here, I'm trying to keep the balance of power in Europe that has been so disturbed by the bigots of Byzantium, and in order for that there is no other option.

Ultimately, were you to not be associated with the PBJ, this would have never come to pass. But, because of this exact thing, I am forced to do something. I will not sit idly by and be gobbled up later.

I see a ray of hope, and I'm grabbing for it. What consequences may come are of little meaning to me, as should I not try now they would only come later.

I am deeply sorry.

To: Barbarossa of Byzantium

Because of your blackmailing other nations, I must fight fire with fire. I am selling my soul for the greater good, and will not let any of the said nations be intimidated by the ruthless and evil PBJ any longer.

There is no love for the moron that holds the throne of Byzantium anywhere except in Rome and Moscow.

I only wish that you were my neighbor instead of Russia so that I might not feel the guilt of going against my friend to rid the world of an idiot.

OOC uknemesis, this game is greatly suffering from the lack of active players in France and Britiain--because of this, Carthage couldn't enlist any kind of help against Spain, while Italy and Spain have been able to concentrate on putting down Carthage in the Mediterranean. Perhaps we should find new players?/OOC

You're selling your soul for your own advantage. Don't try any softshoe with us, Sweden. The nations of Europe are not toddlers. We can see how you've acted [betraying Russia's treaty to get land] how you are acting [starting a war to get more land] and we can see exactly what your motives are. Like I said, a toddler could.

For example, if you're trying to keep the balance of power why are you, a nation with 7, a fair share, trying to get more land? Hmmm?

"I will not sit idly by and be gobbled up later."

Okay, be gobbled up now. But we're giving you a choice. That is: 1 - KEEP OUT of PBJ affairs. 2 - Keep OUT of affairs in the Mediterranean where you have no allies and no business. 3 - cede 64 to Russia as you promised.

If you don't do this, your character will be clear to the world.

TO BRITAIN: Will you help me take this arrogant treaty-peddler down a peg? Will you stand by idly while he over-runs Europe? You might be last to go, but believe me you WILL go.

TO PRUSSIA, AUSTRIA: As said before I extend you the hand of Friendship. I don't want war with your nations. You have proven that you are noble and can be trusted [Austria especially]. I wish you were not associated with that black-guard and liar, Sweden. If you break ties with him today, you will not go without reward. Besides the avoidance of war I would be willing to sign DPPs with you both, and open trade with your great nations.

I think Juliennew is on holiday or something. I will control Britain until he returns(If he's more than a week, then someone else can take over).

Poto is sending in orders, so France is active, just not taking much interest in world affairs.

Nemesis

I think we can all agree that this one is certainly a case of the kettle calling the pot black.

You, the one who so generally provided yourself with 9 provinces and tried to enforce this on other sovreign nations, you, who attempted to blackmail Austria out of claiming provinces for two turns so you might aquire more, and you, who attempted to make Carthage a Byzantine pet state, are calling me a powermonger and a greedy bastard?

You want to know something, Barbarossa? Austria brewed up this whole plan. He and Prussia are readily involved. Where do you think I got the extra 2 gold from in order to claim 4 provinces?

No, it wasn't a typo, but I was prepared to take it bake and make amends before you, the snothead Emperor, decided that it was improtant to you to make a mockery out of me.

I will not hesitate in saying this: I loathe you. Your entire performance thus far has been nothing short of deplorable. If I have a chance to do something now, as I surely won't later judging by your actions, I'll take it and run.

Quite simply you are the greedy, manipulative bastard here. I don't care what I have to do to make sure you don't win through such means in order to do that. This is simply a means to an end to me, and it doesn't even matter what slanderous comments you seek to make about me.

So, you want to parade around with your power and your disgusting subjugation of nations who have every right to equal power as you do? Then you can either stop now or face most of the board fighting against the rotten PBJ.

UKnemesis
i would like to get an estimate of when todays update will be.

i want to know if i will be able to go home and send the orders or if i should send them from work before i leave.

i will be here for 2 more hours

and then get home about 1.5 hours after that.
not sure what time it is your time, but if you planing on doing the update before 3.5 hours from this post please post me a warning, so that i know to send them from here.

Thanks,
Roddy

I have been busy as of late and will try and get an udate to you shortly

Sorry again

lol, I'm glad this is all in character!

Anyway, my thoughts on how the game is going, in character:

EUROPEAN NEWS - EDITOR'S COMMENT

Why not equality for all nations?

I pondered this question as I heard through my contacts of the alliance building against Byzantium.

In this editor's mind, Byzantium has got fat off of everyone else, as there is easily enough room for everyone, 7 provinces each.

But this was rejected outright by Byzantium, due to greed. Russia also claims 8 provinces, more due to Barbarossa's involvement than greed.

The PBJ alliance is growing too strong, fed by the thought that it is one rule for it, one rule for everybody else.

But then, in a world where everyone wants everything they can get, who can blame Byzantium for their claims? But they should not criticise Sweden for doing the same.

Europe is on the verge of war, and this editor hopes that a humble nation emerges victorious.

Roddy: The update will be at 12 midnight UK time, or about that, so that's enough time for you to get home and send them(I'll wait until I get your orders, so long as I know they're coming).

Poto: That's fine.

Nemesis

Cathage has my complete respect in the Corsica matter. They took to land they saw. Cathage has my support as they are only trying to keep themselves from being made a pet nation. Coming from a past enemy a hope this carries weight

YEA!!!

(/ooc just read toasty post/ooc)
talk about load off my chest now:
Byzantium, i second EVERYTHING Sweden just said.
I was terrified that he would give back the province that could have cost me my life.
in proposing that plan to Sweden i took a risk. He was/is friendly with russia and i was proposing a sneak mission to him against his agreement with russia. Because YOU(byzantium) had shown the PB&J to be overbearing and controling, he agreed, IF i could get another ally so that we would not both get crushed by the PB&J.
I asked germany. Risking my neck even more, since Prussia had nothing immediate to gain from this, he could have told on me to you, and joined the PB&J. BUT AGAIN becuase of your bullying tackticks in the division of the world, he decided to join us.

and NOW we are more then your equals!

Einstein the Relieved of Austria

----------------
to all nations of the world.
from Einstein of austria

Now that the stance agains the PB&J alliance has been solidified I would like to know the alliegence of all who wish to be heard.
IF (this is still an IF, if russia conseeds its claim to Swedish territories there will be peace) the war starts, who will you side with?

To France
i am particularly interested in the position you wish to take, as you share a direct border with a few of the involed nations.

to Spain
You have an MPP with Prussia and have been invited into the SAP allience (i assume you accept the invitation since you had thought that you were already in it, please confirm.)
i am still a bit unclear on your relationship with Rome.
IF Rome sticks by his Byzantian Ally, AND the war starts what will your position be?
what are your views to the following:

To Carthage
I know you have had a very strained relationship with Spain, but as i stated in my letter to both of you last year: it is byzantines greed (taking more then his FAIR Share) that drove you two to be at odds. What will your position be?

to England
As i understand it right now, you are a free agent. Do you wish to join a side? which?

/ooc if troq or toasty could do up one of those charts you did before with everyones alliances on it, i think it would realy help right now. i am sorry to say that while i have the time to do it, i suck at following a thread carefully enough to see who did/didn't sign what agreement with who. (i tried it, made 2 seperate charts that DID NOT come close to agreeing with eachother :))

to spain
From Austria


I applaud your wisdom and (what is the oposite of prejudice?) in reguard to Carthages capture of Corsica.
It is nice to see past advesairies speak well of one another.

Einstein the happy of Austria

To: Spain
From: Hannibal of Carthage
I am glad to hear that you are supporting my claims to the lands of Corsica. Now I shall forward a gesture of goodwill unto you, I offer you a DDP which shall keep our nations in a close bond.
What do you say?
Yours,
Hannibal

To: The Detestable Barbarossa
From: Hannibal of Carthage
It sickens me to have to write this letter to you, you are such a man that you are unworthy of my time!
But unfortunately I must now state my position in the growing conflict; I shall not be pulled and made to beg at the hands of the Byzantium empire!! For too long now I have known the truth about your devious ways, I will not allow myself or my people to be ruled by such a man of despicable character!!
Now take your contradictions and your foul speech someplace else where none shall have the displeasure of listening to it!!
Yours,
Hannibal!

To: Sweden & Austria
From: Hannibal Of Carthage
My friends! Carthage shall offer its full support to your nations in this time of great uncertainty. I am glad to find two such great leaders who are prepared to stand up for their rights!
Now let us goto war together if neccessary, our fight is the good fight!!

To: the PB&J
From: Austria

by my count that is 5 to 3 in our favor, with 2 undeclared.

To Russia and Rome
You made an allience with Barborossa before you knew his real character. As you probably see now, most of the world is experiencing feelings of animosity, distrust and even discust towards Barborossa.
/ooc troc this aint going your way is it? just want to reaffirm that this is all in character :) and i am deffinetly having a lot of fun with my NES experiences so far :D / ooc
Are you sure you want to be allied with a nation of such qualities? Because of your allience with this barbarian your friends (Sweden to Russia and Spain to Rome) have been forced to join the opposing side. I urge you to reevaluate who your friends should be.

Einstein the Friendship Counciler of Austria

:):D:)
;)
:goodjob:
just couldnt help it :lol:

edit wow, it told me i used too many images, had to tone it down

Use images, I do all the time :p

Anyway, Britain will remain neutral until Juliennew returns, unless it is to Britain's advantage to help(prolly seeing which side wins, then jump on the bandwagon lol).

Finally, Troq.'s played a blinder, but everyone seems to pick on the big guy here :p

Oh, and how about if Spain joins your SAP alliance renaming it the PASS alliance instead of the SAPS?

Sounds a bit more manly lol.

Nemesis

PS: Any nations who are knocked out, I hope you will still drop in and give your opinion on proceedings(as a leader in prison writing his diary/memoirs or something). This will add to the game, and I will give my opinions often as well.

If it turns into a stalemate after a few have been defeated, I'll declare a free for all, where all alliances are off, and there will be only three more turns. After that numbers of turns, whoever holds the most capitals wins.

And as a side note, as soon as this one finishes I promise there will be an even better UKNES4 made! And I'm thinking of some ideas to make it a game with objectives like this one is, so that you actually have an idea what you must do.

[OOC] I think I better make sure the Troq knows that I'm always in character as my recent comments are very slanderous!!:goodjob:
Good-luck every one

[Damn it,I really thought I had to wait another turn till landing :sad: ]


To:Austria
From:Rome

I will never leave my good friends in Moscow and Constantinople.

To:Spain
From:Rome

Carthage threatened you,he threatened me and now he took an island which both of us had agreed about with me paying 3 g to you.Don't ally with Carthage,help me in freeing Corsica from Carthaginian rule.If you do so I will of course pay you the gold promised.Be aware I supported you in your claim for African land.

To:Carthage
From:Rome

Fool!Rome once burnt your city and salted your land and we will do so again!

UKNEMESIS DON'T DO THE UPDATE YET! I have to get revised orders in. Just take an hour, I promise! ;)

troq beat me to it.
i was gonna say, same thing (though my orders wont be an update, they will be the original version :))

[warning, totally in character]

A cute little alliance. Very cuddly, very amiable.

Jump on the big dog, will you? Hm. You could have thought of better excuses, though. Yes, you're remarkably thin on pretext. You attack Byzantium because he is what, a manipulator, a liar, a cheater, I think was said by various people? Look at your leader. Sweden lied to Russia, connived to steal land, broke a treaty, and is bullying Russia as we speak with 64 as a bargaining tool.

You're rather stupid as well. Some pretty poor choices to be Sweden's tag-alongs. Sweden is smarter than to use this kind of froth. Seriously, I expected him to win over Italy to traitordom: that would be a REAL alliance. Probably tried to. Lucky Italy is so wise :D but as I said, Sweden had to resort to the Blue-Light Special sort of choices. I mean, look at them. They aren't fit for a funeral - except perhaps as corpses...

First we have CARTHAGE, the little lap dog, the little tag-along. Waiting for treats to be thrown to you Hannibal? Want Rome, eh? Rather ambitious. You always struck me as a terrier, but now I see you for what you are, a poodle. Can't even hold on to Africa. Africa too good for you maybe? Have to prance in the Coliseum? You'll end up in the Coliseum soon enough if you don't straighten out. You have Spain and Italy coming at you from two sides. Pull out while there's enough of you left to bury.

Oh, and now there's the EXTRA-SPECIAL DISCOUNT, AUSTRIA. Austria I admit I maligned. I apologized to him though, there's no reason to keep a grudge. It's dog eat dog. And you'll be eaten soon enough unless you smart up, Einstein. You have Russia, you have Byzantium, you have Italy all bordering you. Rather a small little bit of gristle to split up. I want Vienna, though! Vienna is my prerogative! :D Joking aside, I do believe it's not a time to split hairs [or, in this case, a hair]. But as I said, you can't trust your enemies and you damn well can't trust your allies. Prussia? Hah! I think he has his sights on Vienna as well. How much do you bet I get there first?

Ooh, Prussia I was NOT expecting. Prussia, Prussia, Prussia. Really. I mean, he's stretched out oh so nice and appetizingly between Austria and Sweden. Oh well, I guess he sees Russia as a bigger threat. Rather thick, as I said. Hindsight is 20/20, unless you're dead, in which case, as I said somewhere before [?] well, you're dead, I guess.

Even the press is ganging up! Really, Sweden, how much DID you spend?

And Spain. Come on, Spain is too intelligent for SAP. Compared to Sweden he looks like he belongs in MENSA! :lol:

---------

Anyway, you don't stand a chance. Back down now is what I personally would advise. If you want a war, we will be perfectly happy to arrange a time and place to kill you. We'd rather not kill your people, though. They seem quite nice.

Sweden I admit is rather a threat, for a while. Prussia is likely to turn traitor at the soonest oppurtunity, he is too aware of his side. Carthage can by stymied by Spain and Italy, and Austria is caught between all three ALLIES at once!

From this point forward, any messenger from Sweden, Austria, Prussia, or Carthage will be sent back in a basket. Make that two baskets.

I hereby make these DEMANDS. Yes, DEMANDS. The language of force is the only one bullies like Sweden understand. Here they are:

1. Return of 64 to Russia, and full apology to same, with reparations of 3 gold for lost income.

That's all! After that, I will no longer hold grudges against you. Of course, I will continue to see you as rather stupid for thinking you could succeed in a war against the PBJJBP, but you can't help what you are, can you?

OR, you can war against me and my allies. Please sign up with what kind of execution you would like. Our services offer drowning, beheading, hanging, boiling. Caesar is probably the better place to ask, though. Inquire at Rome.

oooh, the barbarian shows his temper

Of course, now we'll have to call you the SPACe cadets...

:rotfl:
:lol:
you absolutely sure you aint missing some letters in that?

Hmmm, now that I think of it... :lol:

Hmm, if Carthage joins too then you'll have to call it the United Nations of Europe(UNE) or something, cause if any more nations join the name will be too long! Can you imagine BFSCRPASRB if all the nations joined together?! It would be like trying to remember your anniversary... :p (I don't have that problem yet, but I forget my parent's ann. often enough!).

Anyway, I'm waiting for Roddy's orders, and I won't update till I get them(unless it's like 1AM, then I will).

Nemesis

It's quite a small alliance actually. SPAC vs PBJ. The other 3 are Britain, neutral; France, neutral; Spain, who'll want a piece of Carthage, probably Allies. After all, if he join the AntiAllies he is surrounded by enemies...

sending now
just sent,

you might get them twice, it gave me a "cant display page" so i sent again just in case, seemed to work the second time

Originally posted by Revolutionairy
Cathage has my complete respect in the Corsica matter. They took to land they saw. Cathage has my support as they are only trying to keep themselves from being made a pet nation. Coming from a past enemy a hope this carries weight

Troquelet, I wouldn't be so sure about him joining the PBJ, see this...

Nemesis

i dont get your reasoning for Spain, but we'll let him and his actions speak for themselves
who is the allies (you i assume) and who's the AntiAllies (Us i assume)
what do you call surrounded? having one common border with one nation is surrounded? his only neighbor in your leage is rome, and Rome IS surrounded.
I wont argue about myself, i knew i was surrounded as soon as those charts came out about who is what relationship with who. (till then i didnt realize i was inside the PB&J :))

now that all the orders are in and the update is just a short (hopefully) wait away, i have butterfly's in my stomack. or something like that :(, maybe its moths?

Troq,
I understand your being upset--essentially, with PBJ, that's how everyone else felt, and that's why my temper flared over this. I got tired of watching Austria and Carthage being pushed around, and your aggressive attempts to make PBJ the strongest thing on the board and as a result extort the other players.

It's a good strategy, yes, but it really offended me.

Besides, if you're as strong as you say you are, this should be a good fight :D!

Oh well, you won't find taking 44 so easy, now that I've changed my orders. And right after that, you can expect Vienna will libe 2 turns and then I burn it to the ground [IF you attack]

ooc - Toasty, no hard feelings I know. We always seem to be at opposite ends, whether it's France-Spain or Byzantium-Sweden... :(

Still you gave your hand away which is good for me. With my previous orders an Austrian surprise attack would have been devastating... as for Italy, I shudder to think... but now we are prepared. I hope. As you said, a good fight ;)

unless you got paratroopers to drop from space, you screwed on 44. ps i did attack.

if you moved your army into it, you just gonna get more screwed. my 3 (all 3 went in) will kill your army and your militia, and then 44 is 2 away from both of our capitols, so its gonna be a stalemate untill i can get the 25 gold to convert it., at which point you loose. russia will be busy with sweden (sweden is bigger), so you wont get help from him.
rome is gonna be busy on the seas to the south with carthage, so no help there, and spain, well my understanding is that spain is on our side, so you are SCREWED.
Barring any unforseend Backstabing :)

i agree about showing my hand with 44. that was dumb of me.

but at that point i was NOT going to do it. so i didnt see the harm in playing a little hardball. oh well, you live, you learn

this wait is killing me.

i have all the nes players in my buddy list so i watch who is here and who aint.
UK, do you have the Anonimous feature turned on, you never seem to come up on that thing.
dam i hate waiting. :)

oh, just remembered something i wanted to ask you all.

i told a friend of mine about this game, and he said it sounds a lot like a board/internet game called Diplomacy.
is it?
we seem to be doing a lot of diplomacy, but i dont know that game, so cant compare.
if it is, i might be able to get him to join (once, as he put it, "he finishes conquering china")

dam it, if i keep hitting 'refresh' like this, i gonna wear out the 20k click warranty on my mouse :)
im going to the library to help my mom.
be back later,
gonna go bald if i stay much longer

I never have played diplomacy either, but I heard this is a lot like it.

Anyways,

To Austria

Dear Einstien, you under estimate the power of mother Russia. Do you think I will coward out of a fight while you attack my ally? Byzantium has been nothing but generous toward you, and yet you still are able to pick a fight. I am not aiming for destroying Sweden, as I have still the smallest respect for him, I just want to gain the territory that I was cheated out of. I have no intentions for destroying, or going any further into Sweden then that. It is up to honorable Sweden to make the decision to save valuable gold and people's lives. I have not declared war on anybody yet, but we will jsut see what happens...


To: Sweden
From Russia

Dear friend, I know we can work out this problem, as we have in the past. One army is on the move to 64, and won't hesitate to fight. Yet, I think that once we have fought it out, we will come to an agreement of a peace. You don't want war with me, and I don't want war with you. Together, we can become peaceful and a role model for the rest of Europe.

To Byzantium
From Russia

You have my FULL support, friend.

MODERATOR MOVES

I moved for Britain and Prussia.

COMBAT REPORTS

It was a good turn for attackers it would seem, but not so good for defenders…

Sea K

2 Roman fleets easily swept aside the Carthaginian fleet, and went on to invade Corsica and Sardinia.

Losses: 1 Carthaginian fleet.

Province 26(Carthaginian)

4 Roman legions landed on Corsica and Sardinia, overwhelming the one army and militia there. Province 26 became a disputed province.

Losses: 1 Carthaginian army.

Province 44(Byzantine)

3 Austrian armies smashed into the arriving Byzantine army and crushed it along with the militia. Province 44 became a disputed province.

Losses: 1 Byzantine army.

MAP UPDATE

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/uknesiii5.jpg

GOLD THIS TURN

Britain has 23 gold to spend!

France has 30 gold to spend!

Spain has 21 gold to spend!

Carthage has 13 gold to spend!

Rome has 11 gold to spend!

Prussia has 22 gold to spend!

Austria has 20 gold to spend!

Byzantium has 18 gold to spend!

Russia has 19 gold to spend!

Sweden has 18 gold to spend!

PATRIOTISM

Rome and Austria have 6 Patriotism this turn.

Byzantium and Carthage have 8 Patriotism this turn.

Everyone else’s is normal.

REMEMBER

It costs 15 gold to claim a disputed province if you are at war with the nation who previously owned it, but only the normal 3 once you make peace with them.

GOOD LUCK TO ALL!

Nemesis

PS: Link:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/uknesiii5.jpg

UK,

It seems really, really silly that you have to pay more to profit from a province during war than you would during peace. Also, few people have 15 gold lying around in the event of war, so that war is completely unprofitable.

While I understand you're a pacifist and often favor the defender (per the rules of your games), this one seems to border on absurd.

Is there any chance you could remove it or reduce the cost?

my question is:
if byzantium attacks and wins the disputed province (44) does it revert to him or remain disputed? (as the last owner)
i wont voice an opinion as to how it should be, cause im VERY involved, but would like to know before i make plans

No, it doesn't revert back to the previous owner, they have to pay the 3 gold to claim it. But it has no militia in it.

Anyway, war is all about taking land and then holding it till peace is declared - a drive for a capital is a long and hard process.

I will change it however. It now costs only 10 gold to claim the province in war.

However, with it only costing 3 gold to claim it outside of war, it makes temporary cease-fires an attractive option, just like in real war.

Nemesis

Oh, and the previous owner only has to pay 3 gold to claim it rather than 10 as the local population are still loyal to them.

Nemesis

/ooc
I have just read through it all. Sorry, not been more involved as of late. I work in the performing arts and we are loading in scenery and lights all day and night and it is eating up a lot of time as of late. Anyway


TO: World
My, my, my Aren't we the eager bunch. It seems the problem here is a lack of proper communication. The aggressor here seems to be the Byzantines. The early years seamed to have brought confusion to the Austrian Government and the opportunistic Byzantines, jumped on the open field and tried as they may to take as much land as they could. And then came the unfair "Constantinople Treaty" Giving the PBJ far too much land. The ever aggressive Byzantines are going to drag the Russians under with there greedy attitude towards the Austrians. I applaud the Austrian Army for their ambitious attack on 44 and hope this show of strength and slow the Byzantines down. We in France are standing by and watching the developments in the East with hope that the war their will come to a happy conclusion. At this time we are NOT joining the SAPS, But we are watchful, as the whole world should be, of the SAP and their actions.

dang, so it aint as disputed as it could be! the people there still dislike me more then they dislike him!? :( oh well.
dang so now what?, decisions, decisions!

Sweden,

Will we have peace with the cede of either 59 or 64?

- Russia

France:

I am afraid you are backwards, it is Austria who was agressive! They are the ones who attacked! Without even a fight, Byzantine gave up a province to Austria in the early years, too! You must not be so blinded by you neighbors, friend. We in PB&J are just trying to rule our nations with security, and yet everyone is trying to destroy us. Numerous attempts for peace have been made in the East, and yet cetral Europe is continuous on trying to start fights.