I've been playing peaceful Emperor OCC's and winning space races rather consistently (usually Gandhi or Ramses) -- so for a change of pace I wanted try the same strategy a leader that isn't suited for the task. :)

My first thought was Tokugawa, but alas, when I got to to industrialism, I realized that the shale plant does offer a fairly nice bonus. (Power without coal! Extra hammers!) Who else would be bad for peaceful OCC?

Shakahttp://www.the-reincarnation.com/images/blank.gif

Imperialistic, organized, creative. Most of the unique buildings seem useful. Peacefully, maybe shaka or the khans.

Zara. Creative and Organized are bad traits for OCC and the UB is also useless for this game.

Shaka is expansive and not really that bad of a civic. Agressive helps, at least for defense.

What is the deal with OCC games. Do the victory conditions scale somehow due to the fact that you can only ever build one city? Is it possible to get a cultural victory on OCC? I can't imagine building all of the space ship components with only one city. How do you keep up with technology?

What is the deal with OCC games. Do the victory conditions scale somehow due to the fact that you can only ever build one city? Is it possible to get a cultural victory on OCC? I can't imagine building all of the space ship components with only one city. How do you keep up with technology?

you can win conquest still by killing or making vassals out of the world, i think you can win cultural if you play with permanent teams i think its just the team needs 3 with legendary but not 100% sure on that, and if you really good and on lower levels you could probably keep up with tech and win space race.

What is the deal with OCC games. Do the victory conditions scale somehow due to the fact that you can only ever build one city? Is it possible to get a cultural victory on OCC? I can't imagine building all of the space ship components with only one city. How do you keep up with technology?

No. Every victory is exactly the same as a normal game. Thus its impossible to get a OCC cultural victory.

The only difference is in regards to national wonders. You can build 5 of them in a city instead of just 2, and you don't need to build multiple buildings to unlock a national wonder.


OCCs aren't that hard. The basic strategy is to build lots of wonders and run a lot of specialists, then settle each and every specialist you get. With representation, each settled specialist will provide even more beakers. And the hammers from all the settled great priests, scientists, and engineers will let you keep up in producing spaceship parts.

I'd agree that Creative and Organized are the worst traits for OCC. Imperialistic could possibly be useful if you're going for conquest since settled GGs will give XP to every new unit you make (whereas in a normal game they might be split between multiple cities) and give you rep beakers too.

agree that Org is poor, but i reckon Fin is pretty useless to...

A cultural win is possible in OCC if you can get a PA and get 2 of your allies cities to go legendary.

I think org is definitely the worst trait and imp is next weakest.
Fin can give you a few extra gold per turn and cre gives cheaper libraries and theatres shaving a few turns off key builds in the early game

so worst leader JC of Rome except you get the forum which is effectively half of Phi

Financial is not too shiny in OCC either.

Id imagine Joao II would be pretty poor, two Rexing traits and uniques which need the sea. That being said id think imperialistic is a fairly decent trait so im not so sure...

Charlemagne- Useless UB, already poor traits one of which just got a whole lot worse without settlers.

why does it matter?

Yeah, Zara Yaqob is pretty useless in OCC.

Creative is almost useless, except for a cheap library and cheap theatre before you build the globe theatre, and i doubt you'll be building a colosseum.

Organized doesn't shine very hard either.

I'd also have to agree about financial. There's just not enough tiles in your BFC to make it worthwhile.

I'm not entirely convinced financial is worthless. In the end, the peak output of a financial cottage is 9 :commerce: (bureaucracy/representation), as compared to a forest preserve/scientist which nets you 1 :hammers: 6 :science:... and sometimes you might want to be focusing on settling great engineers, which means you want to avoid scientist specialists anyways!

And I've been fiddling with the early game a bit, and I think cottages can be useful there too; if you use HR off the pyramids, you can delay drama in favor of getting civil service pretty quickly. I can't yet tell if it speeds up the blitz for biology.

I'm not entirely convinced financial is worthless. In the end, the peak output of a financial cottage is 9 :commerce: (bureaucracy/representation), as compared to a forest preserve/scientist which nets you 1 :hammers: 6 :science:... and sometimes you might want to be focusing on settling great engineers, which means you want to avoid scientist specialists anyways!

And I've been fiddling with the early game a bit, and I think cottages can be useful there too; if you use HR off the pyramids, you can delay drama in favor of getting civil service pretty quickly. I can't yet tell if it speeds up the blitz for biology.


MyOtherName,

You don't build cottages in a OCC.


...unless your name is DaveMcW. :lol:

I'm not entirely convinced financial is worthless. In the end, the peak output of a financial cottage is 9 :commerce: (bureaucracy/representation), as compared to a forest preserve/scientist which nets you 1 :hammers: 6 :science:... and sometimes you might want to be focusing on settling great engineers, which means you want to avoid scientist specialists anyways!

And I've been fiddling with the early game a bit, and I think cottages can be useful there too; if you use HR off the pyramids, you can delay drama in favor of getting civil service pretty quickly. I can't yet tell if it speeds up the blitz for biology.

Cottages don't give GPP. So cottages = fail.

As usual, the story isn't always so simple. :p

Late game
As time goes on, great people become increasingly expensive and decreasingly useful, thus reducing the value of :gp:. Worse, pollution can be relevant -- for example if I'm expecting a production-limited endgame, I don't want scientists polluting my engineer :gp:.

Early game
If judicious use of cottages / specialists can get me to key technologies sooner, that can make up for the fact I chopped some of my trees and improved the land afterwards.


I certainly agree that using cottages effectively won't be easy, but I'm certainly not convinced they are not helpful at all (especially with financial).

I certainly agree that using cottages effectively won't be easy, but I'm certainly not convinced they are not helpful at all (especially with financial).

I think you are underestimating the problems that a cottage driven approach would give you in an OCC game, but it might prove to be an entertaining demonstration.

Let's see, we probably don't want a worst leader, nor Philosophical, so I'm guessing either Mansa (Fin/Spi) or Capac (Fin/Ind)?

You don't build cottages in a OCC.


...unless your name is DaveMcW. :lol:

Perhaps not...

The extreme example is One City Challenge, where specialists are the only way to go.

I think you are underestimating the problems that a cottage driven approach would give you in an OCC game, but it might prove to be an entertaining demonstration.
Cottage driven certainly wouldn't work -- but I'm pondering if cottage augmented strategy has merit.

Cottage driven certainly wouldn't work -- but I'm pondering if cottage augmented strategy has merit.

Enh, tomato tomato. I'm just proposing a public experiment to demonstrate the ideas. Something along the lines of Iron Man, where players are encouraged to retry the game, experiment with different strategies, and so forth.

Something like The Challenge Series from a couple of seasons back.

I'm not convinced zara's ub is useless. There are a lot of times your waiting for that next culture pop for a resource, and +25% is half a cathedral, waaaaaay before you get music. Org is pretty useless in occ but I think creative is probably 4th best occ trait after phil, ind, and spi.

You would rate creative before expansive or charismatic in an OCC ?

wandering a bit off the topic now but traits in order of usefulness; phi, ind, exp, spi, cha, cre, pro, agg, fin, imp, org if playing a peaceful game and phi, ind, cha, spi, exp, imp, agg, pro, cre, fin org if playing aggressively

You would rate creative before expansive or charismatic in an OCC ?

I would definitely put creative ahead of of charismatic, and slightly in front of expansive. Probably because of my playing style; I almost always keep all the trees in my bfc which eliminates health issues until late in the game when I can build national park. Creative will get me the second border pop sooner so I can chop those trees for pyramids. I also think a library is a more important building than a granary in an occ, although by the time theatres and harbors come into play it's usually meh because they're cheap buildings as it is. (Truth be told I rarely use anyone other than gandhi for my one city challenges anyhow, so the creative/expansive debate is mostly speculation.) Charismatic doesn't help me much because I usually try to beeline Judaism for OR then hopefully steal CoL with the oracle if I can get the mids done quickly enough. two early religions are usually enough to keep my citizens working until i can get drama. The 25% discount on xp doesn't seem too crucial since every general is going to settle.

Charlemagne is pretty bad.

Also any organized leader.

Zara is probably the worst, totally useless.

Let's go over the traits for a peaceful game.

1. Philosophical...yeah, the best trait for OCC, by far, GPs are so so important.

2. Industrious, getting all those wonders (Pyramids are VITAL) is awesome, second best trait for OCC by far.

3. Spiritual, although you'll want to stay in the same civics for the most part (Rep/Bureaucracy/Caste/Mercantilism/Pacifism or Theocracy) Spiritual is good for no anarchy.

4. Expansive, it's minor but the extra health and cheap workers is nice.

5. Charismatic, helps a lot in the very early game, getting the Great Wall and Pyramids up

6. Financial, cottages should not be built in a OCC. However it is good for coastal starts, otherwise useless.

7. Protective, it's by far the worst trait in a normal game, but in a OCC it's not so bad. It can help you protect your one city when you get involved in a war.

8. Aggressive, pretty bad considering you won't be warring (and yes, in a OCC, if you don't want to, you can avoid warring easily, and when you do go to war it will be a quick matter of you defending the grabbing peace), but it's better for a free promotion to your units.

9. Creative, uh, the free buildings are nice, but the expanding culture borders is POINTLESS. 2 :culture: when your city should be making like 20 culture per turn by like 80 turns is useless.

10. Imperialistic...the lack of being able to build settlers sucks, and since you'll be playing peacefully GG's suck, horrible.

11. Organized, no use at all. Civic upkeep is usually only 1-2 gold in a OCC even if you use all of the most expensive civics (which you don't, because they are useless in a OCC, the best civics for it are the medium upkeep ones). The cheap buildings are nice but overall USELESS.

For a military OCC


1. Philosophical...yeah, the best trait for OCC, by far, GPs are so so important.

2. Industrious, getting all those wonders (Pyramids are VITAL) is awesome, second best trait for OCC by far.

3. Charismatic, helps a lot in the very early game, getting the Great Wall and Pyramids up, and is really great for warring

4. Spiritual, although you'll want to stay in the same civics for the most part (Rep/Bureaucracy/Caste/Mercantilism/Pacifism or Theocracy) Spiritual is good for no anarchy, plus it helps if you want to keep switching between some civics for war and peace time. (like Theocracy for war, but Pacifism for peace time)

5. Imperialistic...the lack of being able to build settlers sucks, but the extra GG's are really realy good.

6. Aggressive, not as good of a warmonger trait for OCC as Charismatic or Imperialistic, but still quite good

7. Expansive, it's minor but the extra health and cheap workers is nice.

8. Protective, it's by far the worst trait in a normal game, but in a OCC it's not so bad. It can help you protect your one city during all the war, plus it helps make good Gunpowder units.

9. Financial, cottages should not be built in a OCC. However it is good for coastal starts, otherwise useless.

10. Creative, uh, the free buildings are nice, but the expanding culture borders is POINTLESS. 2 :culture: when your city should be making like 20 culture per turn by like 80 turns is useless.

11. Organized, no use at all. Civic upkeep is usually only 1-2 gold in a OCC even if you use all of the most expensive civics (which you don't, because they are useless in a OCC, the best civics for it are the medium upkeep ones). The cheap buildings are nice but overall USELESS.

Funny, considering Zara and Julius are pretty good in the normal game.

Basically, try and get a leader with Industrious or Philosophical and you should be fine (there's a choice of like 20 leaders then!), however a OCC can still be easily won even with Zara.

So IMO the twelve best leaders

Peaceful
1. Gandhi
2. Ramesses
3. Peter (great UB for OCC)
4. Lincoln
5. Bismarck (great UB for OCC)
6. Pericles

Runner ups: Elizabeth, Sitting Bull, Frederick (his UB is really good)

War
1. Lincoln
2. Augustus Caesar (the praets help too) (great UB)
3. Alexander
4. Suleiman
5. De Gaulle
6. Cyrus

Runner ups: Justinian I, Genghis Khan, Stalin

Too long, didn't read version

Two best leaders = Gandhi and Lincoln

Two worst leaders = Zara and Julius Caesar (Julius isn't quite as bad for a war game)

I like expansive. 2 extra health means 2 extra specialists.

In warlords and vanilla it is peter all the way... Philo is obviously great(although there could be an argument for industrious) and expansive is huge when you can't get national park. His UU is very good(cavs are prolly the best time to attack in warlords/vanilla and cavs that beat other cavs are hence very good), obviously his UB rocks in the very late game(Although it is very very late...). Because both his UB and UU is usefull he might still be good in bts, but due to the nerfing of cavs and the nerfing of expansive in occ(through national park) there are prolly other leaders(ghandi and ramsess springs to mind) that are better than him there...

I would definitely put creative ahead of of charismatic, and slightly in front of expansive. Probably because of my playing style; I almost always keep all the trees in my bfc which eliminates health issues until late in the game when I can build national park. Creative will get me the second border pop sooner so I can chop those trees for pyramids. I also think a library is a more important building than a granary in an occ, although by the time theatres and harbors come into play it's usually meh because they're cheap buildings as it is. (Truth be told I rarely use anyone other than gandhi for my one city challenges anyhow, so the creative/expansive debate is mostly speculation.) Charismatic doesn't help me much because I usually try to beeline Judaism for OR then hopefully steal CoL with the oracle if I can get the mids done quickly enough. two early religions are usually enough to keep my citizens working until i can get drama. The 25% discount on xp doesn't seem too crucial since every general is going to settle.

Well, I also play without chopping trees much usually. But we're talking in general here: nothing can guarantee you than you will have plenty of trees, not plenty of trees in the third ring. Also, half price buildings aren't really what makes the strength (or not) of a leader in an OCC imho, so the point is really 2 health against 2 culture. And considering my point, I'll take 2 health every day.

5. Bismarck (great UB for OCC)
Runner ups: Elizabeth, Sitting Bull, Frederick (his UB is really good)

Just wanted to comment on this point on the german UB: imho, passed the early game, scientists are much better in an OCC than ebgineers, so I can't rate the german UB as "really good". And when I want to crank out spaceship parts, I don't think that 2 extra engineers will be worth it.

In the "good UB" for OCC, I'd put early buildings which increase health or happiness, cothon, dike and feitoria (situational), shale plant, seowon, forum, the last three being the best.

I like expansive. 2 extra health means 2 extra specialists.

2 extra health means 2 extra food, so do you mean 1 specialist ? (and actually, it's more 0.66 specialist pre-biology)

Agree with Oyzar with Peter/Gandhi/Ramses

Just wanted to comment on this point on the german UB: imho, passed the early game, scientists are much better in an OCC than ebgineers, so I can't rate the german UB as "really good". And when I want to crank out spaceship parts, I don't think that 2 extra engineers will be worth it.

In the "good UB" for OCC, I'd put early buildings which increase health or happiness, cothon, dike and feitoria (situational), shale plant, seowon, forum, the last three being the best.

Agree with Oyzar with Peter/Gandhi/Ramses

The German UB gives 25% more production. What's not to like, in the late game where you need production?

And I run equal engineers and scientists, the engineers really help with production, considering I'll usually be building spaceship parts as I research so I can build more.

And yeah, Peter/Gandhi/Ramesses II are the best. (do you mean you agree with me? I don't remember a "Oyzer")

The German UB gives 25% more production. What's not to like, in the late game where you need production?

I think you're mistaken. The german UB doesn't give any boost to production: it's faster to build if you have coal (which you don't have if you have the national park) and gives 2 additional engineer slots, but that's all.

And I run equal engineers and scientists, the engineers really help with production, considering I'll usually be building spaceship parts as I research so I can build more.

Before spaceship/internet, I usually run only scientists, because the production is not needed. And when the spaceship production starts, the city has usually a sheer production sufficient (with engineers now) that I feel that 2 engineers more won't change the deal.

And yeah, Peter/Gandhi/Ramesses II are the best. (do you mean you agree with me? I don't remember a "Oyzer")

Oyzar is the name of the user who posted just before me :)

I like expansive. 2 extra health means 2 extra specialists.

vicawoo,

2 extra health is only 1 extra specialist.

I think you're mistaken. The german UB doesn't give any boost to production: it's faster to build if you have coal (which you don't have if you have the national park) and gives 2 additional engineer slots, but that's all. I can't believe I've never noticed that it doesn't give 25% more hammers?!...:lol:

Before spaceship/internet, I usually run only scientists, because the production is not needed. And when the spaceship production starts, the city has usually a sheer production sufficient (with engineers now) that I feel that 2 engineers more won't change the deal.

I suppose you're right but I still like to run 4 engineers, I love the production and GE's.

Oyzar is the name of the user who posted just before me :)
Ah okay.



vgfddfbdfdf

@Nintendo: Well, it does give +25% production, as every factory-type building does..
Some of the War Academy articles and descriptions are a bit misleading there.. (giving the full bonus sometimes, and sometimes the additional one for UUs and UBs)

For a military OCC

...

6. Aggressive, pretty bad considering you won't be warring (and yes, in a OCC, if you don't want to, you can avoid warring easily, and when you do go to war it will be a quick matter of you defending the grabbing peace), but it's better for a free promotion to your units.

Copy & paste ftw :lol:

In warlords and vanilla it is peter all the way... Philo is obviously great(although there could be an argument for industrious) and expansive is huge when you can't get national park. His UU is very good(cavs are prolly the best time to attack in warlords/vanilla and cavs that beat other cavs are hence very good), obviously his UB rocks in the very late game(Although it is very very late...). Because both his UB and UU is usefull he might still be good in bts, but due to the nerfing of cavs and the nerfing of expansive in occ(through national park) there are prolly other leaders(ghandi and ramsess springs to mind) that are better than him there...

Agreed. My only OCC so far was as Peter, though I would have picked Saladin (Phi/Spi in Vanilla) if I hadn't just played him. I planned for a quick peacemonger game, but with Monty nearby, plus JC and Kublai Khan on the map (standard, 7 civs) that wasn't going to happen. It turned into a full scale war and a conquest win (I had a PA though - Vicky was spared). My people would have been quite sick without the Expansive health boost.

I've just installed warlords btw. I'll give Gandhi a try sometime.

Can somebody start up the iron man game? This is a game I would want to try out. I am one of those fools who likes to build up some cottages. You can't grow to big anyway because of the health so you could ask yourself if you want to have 1 extra F or 3-5C (riverside grassland with farm/cottage). Only after I get biology and national park I will change things. Then it is the case to start growing as fast as you can. Health is normally the limiting factor in OCC. Happiness comes soon with Globe theater.

About the worst leader: Best traits for OCC are industrious, philosophical and expansive. So any leader without these traits can be considered bad.

The German UB gives 25% more production. What's not to like, in the late game where you need production?

And I run equal engineers and scientists, the engineers really help with production, considering I'll usually be building spaceship parts as I research so I can build more.

And yeah, Peter/Gandhi/Ramesses II are the best. (do you mean you agree with me? I don't remember a "Oyzer")

I posted right after you... It is not so much that your order is correct, it is that it varies greatly by what version of the game you are playing...

Cottages/Fin do work; Elizibeth is one of the best leaders for occ.
Build up cottages till bio and then replace them with farms. This will keep your tech moving fast early game and ensure your growth late game.

The extra income from forest preserves is also very nice.

Cottages/Fin do work; Elizibeth is one of the best leaders for occ.
Build up cottages till bio and then replace them with farms. This will keep your tech moving fast early game and ensure your growth late game.

The extra income from forest preserves is also very nice.

Why would you build cottages if you have a philosophical leader? Isn't the idea is to run specialists in order to generate great persons?

I have to say that financial is not as bad as you would think in the right circumstances. I've grown to like playing Liz in OCC. If you end up with the full forest preserve setup you make a lot more money running environmentalism if you are financial. And if you are playing preserve the forests for the National Park there can be tiles that can't be irrigated and the only thing that will fit on them is a cottage.

I think that aggressive, organized, creative, and imperialistic are all pretty lame for OCC.

there can be tiles that can't be irrigated and the only thing that will fit on them is a cottage.
Except for letting a forest grow....

I have to say that financial is not as bad as you would think in the right circumstances. I've grown to like playing Liz in OCC. If you end up with the full forest preserve setup you make a lot more money running environmentalism if you are financial. And if you are playing preserve the forests for the National Park there can be tiles that can't be irrigated and the only thing that will fit on them is a cottage.

I think that aggressive, organized, creative, and imperialistic are all pretty lame for OCC.

I've never tried environmentalism in an occ. However, I can't imagine it would mesh well with my sushi addiction. the 50% difference in corporation cost (between environmentalism and free market,) and the extra trade route should more than make up for the forest preserve commerce.

the problem with waiting for forest preserves is how late game they are, by then there is a good chance the game will be decided

the problem with waiting for forest preserves is how late game they are, by then there is a good chance the game will be decided

In a OCC? Far from it.

Forest preserves are DEFINITELY worth it, IMO. I usually leave 10-12 forests.