Hi

I just discovered this in my current game so I thought I'd share - my games are played at Prince, Normal speed, Random leader (Catherine this time), Shuffle world (it seems to have been a two-continent fractal).

I built a city in some hills and my neighbour Alexander decided he wanted it. We were about tech equal, for a while I had Guilds(knight) he had Engineering(pikemen) and it was a close and bloody campaign.

While defending I tried out the Guerilla skills for some of my defenders and found they are very good for both defence, and - I discovered - counter attack.

The maths is simple:

Guerilla 1 - +20% hills defence
Guerilla 2 - +30% hills defence x2 movement in hills
Guerilla 3 = +25% hills attack, +50% witdrawal.

So is the technique:

1. Put a (defensive) unit in the hills - get it attacked.
2. If it survives, promote and repeat, perhaps after some recuperation in a friendly city.

Obviously this can be speeded up with barracks, GG's, civics.

The Good Stuff:

Guerilla 2's actually make good guerillas as AI workers only retreat when the enemy is adjacent. So if a worker is mining a hill, you can move two hill spaces (in enemy territory!), take him and still defend the position afterwards (something you can't do with mounted units very well). You can either escort the worker back to your territory or delete it. One way to move a worker onto hills is to move onto and pillage a resource such as gems, which your guerilla 2 can do in a single turn :D

Guerilla 3 effectively removes the opposition's defensive bonus for hill defence, making it feasible to attack invading stacks that use hills as defence during the invasion - this is especially useful in the aftermath of a city attack - the enemy stack may have one good defender that would ordinarily prevent counter attack - but if you can weaken or kill it with a guerilla 3 then your cavalry get a nice lunch on all the near-dead trebuchets before they can re-heal and attack again.

Compared to the advice the game gives about guerilla warfare (ie, use cavalry) I find the above much better as raiding cavalry still can't move as fast as defending infantry(!) and get eaten by spears pronto. Personally I've not even been able to make even Keshiks work well.

The disadvantage of this technique is that you are restricted to hills - move off them and your unit is easy meat.

This technique could be applied to woodsmen1/2/3 as well, but I haven't tried it out. Forests and jungles tend to disappear as the game progresses.

Its not a game breaker, but from now on I'll be looking for guerilla opportunities whenever I plan an invasion or site a city.

Enjoy !

Guerrilla is great, it's why I really like playing the Celts. The mobility you can get in enemy territory from G2 is the best, and the combat bonus is really handy if you can build most of your cities on hills.

Welcome to the boards Negator_UK :)

You are right about Guerrilla 2 and 3 being very good promotions, but unfortunately Guerrilla 1 is a bit of a dud. So it requires an all or nothing strategy. That makes the troops very specialised but that's ok if you only make a few. Also in the early game only archey units can get the promotion and they aren't very good attackers. Later gunpowder troops with Guerrilla are powerful.

I get around these problems by beelining to Feudalism and adopting Vasslage to build 5 exp Longbows, which is enough for Guerilla 2. I find that promoting a few longbows along the Guerilla line is very useful and they are respectable attackers against archers and axemen. They also make absurdly good stack protectors when on a hill and that often gets them promoted to Guerilla 3.

^^*cough* Gallic warrior* cough.....

Try Boudica and this puppies in a Highlands map .... ;)

Welcome to the boards Negator_UK :).

Ta, pleasure to be here..


, but unfortunately Guerrilla 1 is a bit of a dud. So it requires an all or nothing strategy.

The all or nothing make sense, since you wouldn't want to stop at guerilla 1, or mix it with other stuff. However I would have thought it possible to get to 2 via 1, either by entering enemy territory or using guerilla1 instead of city defender, and get the promotion the hard way. I think this happened to me once while figuring this thing out although one instance doth not a strategy make.

That makes the troops very specialised but that's ok if you only make a few..

Yup - by sacrificing all their combat abilities outside of hills the only cities they can take are those on hills and those defended by very small children.. guerillas can't conquer the world, no matter what your local communists say ;-)

If you find yourself playing the celts in hilly terrain, here's something:

1) Build Longbows in Dun cities with Theo or Vassalage
2) Promote to G3
3) Upgrade to Rifles and use Spies to blitz the enemy.

Also in the early game only archey units can get the promotion and they aren't very good attackers.

Except with the Celts. Once you've got your duns up, every foot unit is eligible for the Guerrilla line (all the way to G3), including spears, maces, etc

Yet another reason to leave most of your units unpromoted until they fight. Promoting to guerrilla ahead of time is pretty weak - you may or may not need it/fight on hills. If you have a 2-3 promo unit as your stack nears/enters enemy territory and you realize that you can path through hills, steal workers, etc, then just promote guerrilla (or woodsman) as needed and you have your stack protection.

Of course, you may want a few promoted units in your stack so the AI doesn't pick off unpromoted units, but that's a pretty easy judgment to make.

This also applies to raids with gunpowder units, as once you have a city you can just promote the units you leave behind to CG. Very useful on amphibious intercontinental raids. Obsolete calls these CG troops "pill boxes", and for good reason.

Use promos wisely...

Biggest problem with that strategy is the alluring bluish light that just beckons you to claim your prizes... I never can resist promoting my units, if only to get rid of that light...

Biggest problem with that strategy is the alluring bluish light that just beckons you to claim your prizes... I never can resist promoting my units, if only to get rid of that light...

I used to be that way too, but trust me, situational promos can really help.

If the flexibility isn't enough for you, you can just abuse the fact that promos allow your units to heal, sometimes significantly. If you're attacking at high odds anyway there some some situations where the healing is worth holding the promos.

Usually games are won or lost on the strategic level but everything micro/tactical helps make it easier, and maybe wins some games without us realizing it.

however, if one waits to promote to guerilla or woodsman on forgoes the two movement hence the whole point of those promotions. It is like that Civil war general that lincoln got mad at because it took him forever to attack- time is agin you- in war weariness, in point gathering, and enemy progress.

"two movement and terrrain can turn defeat into victory and make the other guy quit" Terence Hoffmeyer, MP player.

^^Finally, a troytheface post that makes sense in terms of Civ strategy :woohoo:

Usually, if you're waiting to promote you're doing that while moving in your OWN territory, on ROADS. When you hit the enemy borders and see the opportunity to steal a worker or snipe a city instantly, that's exactly when one would promote the units...

If that type of opportunity doesn't rise up, you can just use more generic promos. Waiting until you use the units in some way is still optimal with promos...

Except with the Celts. Once you've got your duns up, every foot unit is eligible for the Guerrilla line (all the way to G3), including spears, maces, etc

ONLY units that are eligible for the Guerilla promo get it- that is, Muskets, Grens and Archery units (Dun is obsoleted by Rifling).

Technically melee units are elegible to the Guerrilla line promos .... except for Guerrilla I :p And as the can't get Guerrilla I ( except G. Warrior ) .......

ONLY units that are eligible for the Guerilla promo get it- that is, Muskets, Grens and Archery units (Dun is obsoleted by Rifling).

Heh, you're right. I never noticed because the Gallic Warrior gets the upgrade, and I tend to build them instead of axes (then retain the upgrade when they go to macemen - I usually have a surfeit of them and don't need to build any maces, just upgrade the g warriors).

Most of my rifles (and even infantry) end up having it too, because generally I've built lots of muskets and grens by the time I get rifling.

If you can stand the mental stress of ThemeInTeam's advice about delaying promotions, then its the way to go - to improve or stay cr&p is a choice we all have to make - still haven't decided myself yet ;-)

One place I think you do have to pre-promote is in defence - amphibious invasions come straight out of the sea without warning and the game seems to positively encourage the human player to lose those well camouflaged enemy armies in the wonderfully rendered terrain. I'm sure the games art director is a good artist but he was no player of the game and the sooner he gets "promoted" to the film industry the better for us gamers IMO.

But enough of my ranting !

One way to pre-promote guerilla could be to make one of a cities defenders that trait - it functions almost as well as city defender (for levels 1 and 2) as long as the city is on the appropriate terrain.

One way to pre-promote guerilla could be to make one of a cities defenders that trait - it functions almost as well as city defender (for levels 1 and 2) as long as the city is on the appropriate terrain.

Actually it is marginally better. Guerilla1+2 is +50%. CG1+2 is +45%. 5% is a small amount, but with Civ's flooring habits, it might make a difference in the end. Especially if it just moved into the city and doesn't have time to fortify.
G1-2 on a hill city is strength 6 after modifiers. CG1-2 in hill city is 5.85 strength...floored to 5.8. Of course various promotions for the attacker change all this. And CG3 is better than G1-2 +cg1. But if you're not protective, it is highly doubful you have cg3 units as city defenders until later in the game when you have settled GG's. Most high exp units are probably offensive.

The only problem is, if they already built all their mines, your guerillas are exposed. Similar problem with woodsmen 2 pillagers.

^^ :confused: Didn't knew that mines removed hills... :lol:

^^ :confused: Didn't knew that mines removed hills... :lol:

Maybe the AI is using strip mining

That might explain their obscene production bonus on higher levels - early strip mining tech!

worker capture

Does G3 add the bonuses for G2 or replace them?

edit: NM Im pretty certain it adds.

Adds

(this additonal text added because the editor said the answer was too short... precision a bug ???).

You don't think inprecise, you just think in précis.