If this has been discussed somewhere that I could not find please forgive me.

BUT please give us a seperate forum for all the culture flipping rants and diatribes.

If we moved the 67 threads about culture flipping over into that one pile then they would all be easier for that section of the asylum to find the 67 times that each of those participants had already posted the exact same rant in all the other message threads.

It would also be easier for other people to get over the whole CF debate and move on to something that will perhaps be altered in the game.

If the CF discussion ever wanes or reaches some sort of reasonable equilibrium then that sub-forum could just be closed and/or archived if it is no longer required.

Its hard to find the wheat for all the chaff.

*Waves to cracker before the thread is closed and he ends up banned*

Nice try, but the whining will never stop no matter what. :(

yes, the whining will never stop. Its genetic.

Behavior doesn't change as long as it is reinforced with public exposure and attention (positive or negative).

But the least we could do is give them their own little room and their own little pot to peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee in.

When you do a search on culture flipping and/or CF you get over 1400 matches.

While someone may swoop in and close this thread just so they do not have to see it rise to the top of the chaff pile (like all the 7 current Culture flipping rants that are open), there is nothing bannable in the post. (smiling and waving back across the aisle as the CFpigeons circle and poop on all the other discussions.) ;)

cracker: I had hoped people would see the light and rally for a slight change in the forumla that determines the flips.

I had also hoped that the posts would stay helpfull, tryin gto find ways to tune CF and so on. See my "hwo amkyn is sufficient" thread - essentially I think now there needs to be a factor relating to map size in the formula.

I am sorry I brought the topic up again; if I'd known some people would harp the same complaints again and again istead of joing that try to clear matter up - and maybe find a fix acceptable to all - I guess I would have emailed Firaxis instead and asked my question there :(

Lt Killer, what you did is fine. Endless whining about something that won't change is what gets so many people ticked off. Jeff said that he likes the way culture flipping works, which means that it's not going to change. I've offered my explanation why he feels this way. Basically, it's a way to stop warmongers from flattening a civ all the time. The reason your garrison vanishes instead of moving is because you could capture the city the same turn and the culture flip is pointles... I think a better way would be to impliment 'resisters' who should make the offensive a nightmare as much as possible. I think that would be a better way to handle it. I hope they don't have the same system here in Civ III for Civ IV though. :(

Trip: yep. I can't read certain psots anymore, especially when they appear in several threads with the exact same words......

Maybe, once things cool down a little, I will open a poll asking who is in favor of no change, a warning thingy (like the advisor going: "The people of XXXXXX talk favourably about the empire of YYYYY" if a city is at a certain threshold, like 30% risk, or an addition of a map-size fator to the formula (the easiest to implement thing I'd guess)..... But I will let a few days pass before I do so.....

Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.
Trip: yep. I can't read certain psots anymore, especially when they appear in several threads with the exact same words......



Now if someone could just get rid of Windows' copy-and-paste diarrhea...

I guess this has turned into a CF rant thread. Oh well, here's mine. I generally don't mind CF. Until recently, it never bothered me at all. When I started playing on the higher levels, though, I began to run into problems. Higher levels means that you need to have far more units when campaigning through a civ. I have trouble running these campaigns when I have to leave much of my stack in the city I just captured so that it doesn't revert. On the lower levels, wars could be waged with fewer troops, thus allowing me to leave the correct number of troops within a city. I have another method of CF that I will post in a followup thread. It works drastically differently.

Originally posted by zeeter
I guess this has turned into a CF rant thread. Oh well, here's mine. I generally don't mind CF. Until recently, it never bothered me at all. When I started playing on the higher levels, though, I began to run into problems. Higher levels means that you need to have far more units when campaigning through a civ. I have trouble running these campaigns when I have to leave much of my stack in the city I just captured so that it doesn't revert. On the lower levels, wars could be waged with fewer troops, thus allowing me to leave the correct number of troops within a city. I have another method of CF that I will post in a followup thread. It works drastically differently.

That's a major problem with culture flipping. What kind of city requires 25 modern armor to keep it from flipping?

Originally posted by zeeter
I guess this has turned into a CF rant thread. Oh well, here's mine. I generally don't mind CF. Until recently, it never bothered me at all. When I started playing on the higher levels, though, I began to run into problems. Higher levels means that you need to have far more units when campaigning through a civ. I have trouble running these campaigns when I have to leave much of my stack in the city I just captured so that it doesn't revert. On the lower levels, wars could be waged with fewer troops, thus allowing me to leave the correct number of troops within a city. I have another method of CF that I will post in a followup thread. It works drastically differently.

This is one of the major points to CF - to make warfare either slower, more resource intensive, or riskier (depending on how you conduct it). CF rewards the builder player, otherwise the game would be too heavily weighted toward warmongering.

Firaxis - please have a simple on/off switch in the editor for CF so everyone will be happy.

Originally posted by GI Josh
This is one of the major points to CF - to make warfare either slower, more resource intensive, or riskier (depending on how you conduct it). CF rewards the builder player, otherwise the game would be too heavily weighted toward warmongering.
You hit the nail on the head. Firaxis doesn't want Civ to have an image of "Warring Civilizations III" ... they wan't to make something more all-inclusive and alternatives for the non-warmongers. While this wasn't exactly the best way to do it, it certainly makes invasions more interesting than in Civ 2. ;) (At least they got rid of that 'top-unit-dies-the-stack-disappears-crap'... Bah!!! :mad: I'll take culture flipping over that any day.)

I know the Culture Flipping threads are getting out of hand guys. The forum is going through a phase, and hopefully it'll grow out of it soon ;) There's no way a new forum will be created in CF's honour, but if the number of threads regarding it doesn't decrease soon I'll consult with gonzo and Thunderfall and see what we can do.

Threads like these go in Site Feedback, btw.

Cuno: why not merge them?

Keep those doggies rollin' cracker. Soon you will reach a range where the whiners don't roam.

Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.
Cuno: why not merge them?

That's a possibility. I'd rather just let the attitude of the populace help kill them off for the time being (much as the OT crowd has stifled any talk of the ME ;)) but if that's unsucessful than I'd certainly consider merging most of them :)

Cuno: why not merge them?

Ignore hippo's answer. The real answer is that the merged thread would have so many posts it would bring down the server.

But seriously, if this continues, there will be a moderator discussion and then you can expect some smack down

Hopefully ;)

Originally posted by gonzo_for_civ
But seriously, if this continues, there will be a moderator discussion and then you can expect some smack down*Isak places smack down in third spot on his christmas wish-list, just below Civ3 PtW xpansion and peace in the world.*

I dont think it will continue its just because of the new patch

I wouldn't be against limiting certain civfanatics to only being able to post in a separate sub-forum ;)

Moderators can solve this problem by having a designated subforum for hot topics like this CF problem. It's not going to go away, just look at the number of newbies who show up each week with the same questions and same problems only to have every one of the discussions get hijacked by the same core group of extreme whiners who can't figureo ut how to play the game.

The separate forum could get its title changed from time to time or it could just be the "heated topic" forum with a sticky thread at the beginning to announce what the current rant subject really is.

Then you move all the topics to that pile and clear the rest of the forums so that they can be functional again. It's almost impossible to filter out all the ad nauseum CF rant threads as well as the 50% of all the other discusions that are being hijacked at every opportunity.

You have to give the ranters and place to rant away and you need to have a place for the newbies to find all this crap easily so they can make a choice to avoid the crapola or dive right in.

What ever you do, Fix it now!!! Its not getting any better and it will not go away between now and when PTW and the first PTW/CIV combo patch gets realeased in the January time frame.

I would also like a can of that thar "smack down" in my Christmas stocking as well. Is "smack down" made from the soft underbelly feathers of full grown smacks or does it have to come off the babies? ;)

I've thoroughly enjoyed this thread.

Seems boring as hell to me.

Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae
Seems boring as hell to me.

That might be because the "culture flipping" subject has been done to flipping death.

Do you think you mods could make a sticky announcement at the top of the Civ3 General forum that outlines, in brief, the CF problems the repetitive complainers have? And then add a note saying that if you don't have anything new to add, don't bother posting.

It probably wouldn't work, but you never know...

Personally, I don't know what's the problem people have with CP. Anytime one happens, just take it in stride and roll your offensive onwards after retaking that city.

Or raze every conquered city and found new loyal ones in their places. Or in my case, simply kill off that civ and no occupied city will ever flip back to its dead mother civ. :mwaha:

There're ways to reduce that possibility. Besides, cities may flip to your civ.

Personally, I don't know what's the problem people have with CP.

That seems to be the overriding opinion right now. It's a VERY vocal minority who have a real problem with it.

Update: Only 3 CF threads active so far today! :goodjob:

Update: Only 3 CF threads active so far today!

Now add in all of the general whining threads that have turned into CF threads and the number is too big to post here.

If it goes on too long, we will just become rules anal and start banning the posters of these threads for no apparent reason. ;)

Although, I believe somewhere in the site documentation(maybe that rules document no one reads) it tells people to be descriptive in their posts and search for threads on the topic before posting...I'll go look for that.

EDIT: Here it is:

Use descriptive subject lines & research your post.
This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Also, scan the subjects of the last several days' posts to make sure you aren't duplicating posts.

And that would be a rule....... :king:

So....if you're CF whine thread is too similar, you may find yourself ban victim of Gonzo the Great or perhaps Hippo the Canadian. :D

I just wish you would announce what you are going to do and then start cracking down after you give the bad apples about 48 hours to get their last rants out of their system.

I think the subject has officially been beaten absolutely to death.

Also, recognize that none of these ranters are capable of even playin ga moderately competent game of what might be called CIV3 by any standard of interpretation. Most of these posters are playing some sort of training wheel mod version and then leading alot of otherwise good newbies off into the wrong direction that will end up causing them dissatisfaction and frustration in the long run.

Several of the worst bad apples have been banned more than one on this issue; inserting CF rants into threads on other topics, or sometimes for cumulative obnoxiousness. This current discussion is still live among the the staff. Keep putting useful posts (particularly alternative) into this tread; there is a possibility of something being done.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/announcement.php?s=&forumid=15

This will work, or heads will roll. Either way's fine by me :sniper:

All hail the hippo!!!!!!!!!

Civ3 GD will not be so much of a pain in the ass to moderate now! :D

Uh huh... after you've had to ban all the people who just can't take a hint, it ought to be rrrreeeeaaaallllyyyy quiet.

All hail the powers that be!
Thank you for making things quieter on the western front. :)

Kudos to the Hippo and all other moderators.

Order appears to have been restored among the peasants and now "our great civilization has entered a Golden Age" ;)

I would still like the URL for the website where I can order my own personal can of Smackdown. Man, that must be some powerful spit if it can bring so much calm to so many with so little real pain to so few. Perhaps a B52 load of it on the middle east would be a worthwhile investment in world peace.

Now I may finally be able to visit the Civ3 forums again..... :) Good job, mods! :goodjob: