My game IS COMPLETED. Here are the rounds played:

Round 1: 4000 BC to 2800 BC (49 Turns) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6946210&postcount=7)-Floodplains Galore!
Round 2: 2800 BC to 1850 BC (39 Turns) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6961374&postcount=25)-The Expansion Phase
Round 3: 1850 BC to 1025 BC (34 Turns) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6977323&postcount=46)-A Failed Gambit
Round 4: 1025 BC to 65 BC (51 Turns) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6994947&postcount=52)-The Arms Race
Round 5: 65 BC to 385 AD (31 Turns) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6999573&postcount=61)-Our First War
Round 6: 385 AD to 990 AD (46 Turns) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7010652&postcount=74)-On the Road to Liberalism
Round 7: 990 AD to 1455 AD (67 Turns) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7015526&postcount=83)-Glory of Riflemen
Round 8: 1455 AD to 1580 AD (26 Turns) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7040972&postcount=89)-CHINA!
Round 9: 1580 AD to 1798 AD (74 Turns) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7194381&postcount=107)-A Dream is Made True


Hey, all.

I've decided to try and fire up another online game right now with a different leader, as the Darius game is no longer saved on my computer as I had to restore it and reinstall the game.

So I decided that I wanted to try a military game, so that I can hone my military skills and garner some great advice from you guys. For that, I chose Boudica (Aggressive/Charismatic), who likely has the two best military traits together. Her unique stuff, though, doesn't seem that appealing to me. The Dun, which replaces a wall, gives a free guerilla promotion to those units who can receive it while the Gallic Warrior is an ordinary swordsman with a Guerilla promotion.

The map settings are:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg

Note: There is a mistake-this map is on normal aridity not arid like dispayed in the screenshot. Also, there are six other AI's so there will the standard 7 civs in this game, including me. All other options in the "options" column are left blank.

This game is played on the 3.17 Patch and also on the TECTONICS PANGEA MAP SCRIPT!

I wanted to test out this tectonics map script so I thought of trying it out.

By the way, here's the start:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0001-1.jpg

First start I generated. Pretty awesome start in my opinion, especially with the gold. Unfortunately, Boudica is not Expansive and those floodplains (11 If I counted correctly) will cause FOUR unhealthiness. I would have preferred an all grassland-forest start to be honest since Boudica could really use the chops for military.

So my plan is to tech Mining > Bronze Working > Agriculture > Wheel or Animal Husbandry. Start warrior in capital, then switch to worker at size 2. Boudica starts with hunting and mysticism. OR (alternative plan) I could tech to pottery for cottages.

I will move the scout 1 southeast, then 1 southwest, and likely settle in place.

And my long term goal is to win a domination or conquest victory.

Your thoughts, please. :goodjob: Save is on bottom.

Personally I would move the Scout 1N,1NE or onto one of the hills to open up the map a bit more with the visual range. Settling in place will pop the hut anyway (hope for a map!)

AH definitely as a priority along with Wheel. Pigs would give you a health bonus to offset the flood plains though you would want more food resources to balance it out more.

Good luck...you're going from one of the strongest leaders in the game to one of the weakest. Highly promoted units are great fun but I believe that (largely from my experience in RBCiv's always-war game with Boudica) the extra promotions do not make up for the extra units or higher-tech units that an economic trait would help obtain.

Maybe move scout west to the gold hill? I would consider settling 1W to get an extra plains hill for production, and leaving some FP for a 2nd city allowing you to avoid some of the early health issues.

Personally I would move the Scout 1N,1NE or onto one of the hills to open up the map a bit more with the visual range. Settling in place will pop the hut anyway (hope for a map!)

AH definitely as a priority along with Wheel. Pigs would give you a health bonus to offset the flood plains though you would want more food resources to balance it out more.

Maybe I will move the scout your way. I will think about it. But do you think AH and Wheel should go before Mining/BW or after?

Good luck...you're going from one of the strongest leaders in the game to one of the weakest. Highly promoted units are great fun but I believe that (largely from my experience in RBCiv's always-war game with Boudica) the extra promotions do not make up for the extra units or higher-tech units that an economic trait would help obtain.

Maybe move scout west to the gold hill? I would consider settling 1W to get an extra plains hill for production, and leaving some FP for a 2nd city allowing you to avoid some of the early health issues.

Yeah, going away from Darius probably wasn't a good idea. :crazyeye: But the thing that's interesting on this tectonics map script is that teching is slow (for some reason, even if you have advanced civs) probably because of lots of space for barbarians.

Settle in place, there are horses or iron in that NE plains tile.

Settle in place, there are horses or iron in that NE plains tile.

There's more than 1 plain tile so we can't be sure. I'm actually thinking of settling 1 east -- I need to free up some floodplains for another city.

Round 1: 4000 BC to 2800 BC (49 Turns)


Okey-dokey, time to start.

I followed timmy's advice on moving the scout on the gold.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0003-1.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0004-1.jpg

The scout found ivory! Awesome. Ivory+Gold+Charismatic means 8 happiness in the early game. Wow.

I settled one west to gain the ivory and also lose some floodplains.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0005-1.jpg

The capital build this round was Worker/Warrior/Warrior/Warrior. I began with a worker and started to research Mining (research was Mining/Animal Husbandry/Bronze Working).

By the way, the capital popped the hut for a scout. Awesome -- these are great early in the game.

On turn 6 of the game, one of my scouts encountered a leader...Darius I (Financial/Organied)! Wow...I hope he's not too mad about me abandoning his game... :sad:

Two turns later, I met Mao Zedong (Expansive/Protective) and he's closer, which doesn't fare well for early warfare. I also met Pacal II (Expansive/Financial) who is the founder of Buddhism.

I managed to get a number of huts this round. One of them popped for another scout. (None for techs.)

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0006-1.jpg

Meanwhile, Mining was done and Animal Husbandry was up next. I did this because BW wasn't really necessary (2 forests and little need for slavery now--pigs were my only source of food in the capital).

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0007-1.jpg

Here's Darius' capital:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0008-1.jpg

After Animal Husbandry was complete, I went for Bronze Working.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0010-1.jpg

I will give you a little micro-report about how I managed my capital. Here it is at size 2 training my first warrior after a worker.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0011-1.jpg

The capital a few turns later with pigs pastured:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0012-1.jpg

At size 3, I began to work for the gold for research. I didn't do it at size 2 since I figured that growth is more important. I was planning on growing the capital to size 4 then make 2 quick settlers (more information on that later).

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0013-1.jpg

My worker, by the way, first mined the gold, then pastured the pigs, then camped the ivory, and is currently mining the plains hill southwest of the capital center.

Once Bronze Working was researched, I ended the round.

---------------------

Current tech choices:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0014-1.jpg

I'm thinking of going Archery - Agriculture - Wheel - Pottery - Writing next round.

My lone scout who survived is currently fogbusting near my proposed city sites:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0016-1.jpg

My current capital:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0017-1.jpg

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNND the map.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0015-1.jpg

Notice something? No copper. There's also horses but they're a bit far away and in a very ... food-poor region. That's why I propose reseraching Archery first next round to help with barbarians.

As I mentioned before, my plan was growing the capital to size 4 then making 2 quick settlers (maybe a second worker between the settlers) for these sites:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0018-1.jpg

I am thinking about settling city 2 first, followed by 1, and city 3 can wait until I get Iron Working. City 2 should be settled first since it's four tiles away from Mao's capital and I really don't want him stealing a site that close to me. All in all, I like these two city sites since they will be great commerce centers and only one floodplain is lost out of the many that are here.

So that's the round. Do you agree with my tech choices? My plan? My city sites? Should I go for the horses and skip archery? If you have any criticisms or suggestions, please let me know.

Save:

How about skipping archery and going straight for IW? One of the big advantages of the Gallic warrior is no requirement for Iron. With that gold boosting research, you might be well placed for a Gallic rush on protective chinese.

How about skipping archery and going straight for IW? One of the big advantages of the Gallic warrior is no requirement for Iron. With that gold boosting research, you might be well placed for a Gallic rush on protective chinese.

Well, if there's no copper nearby, then you will need the Iron to make them.

I'm a little worried about researching the expensive Iron Working so early, though. And ardchers are a guaranteed safety.

Well, if there's no copper nearby, then you will need the Iron to make them.

No, you've missed the whole point.:p The UU does not require copper or iron. The only 'risk' is spending an extra 17 turns waiting while you research IW instead of archery. Once you research IW, you have access to the UU instantly. No need to find iron or mine it. You could just crank out a handful of warriors while you research to tide you over.

EDIT: Sorry, it was me that missed it... I just looked and saw the gallic warrior requires copper. I guess I already had copper hooked up the last time I played Brennus!

I almost never post, but I took one look at your land and went :eek:

I'd settle the flood plains and then try to murder the persians and see if I could make something of the cows-wheat and sheep-wheat tiles and then I'd just be at a loss for what to do next. I'm watching this closely, if for no other reason than to see how you'd play land like that.

Yeah, the land near my capital seems to be gorgeous. Sadly, there are A LOT of plains and deserts to my east. I don't think I'll be able to get rid of Darius that earlier. Mao, despite that he is protective, looks to me like the better early target.

Plus, darius has horses. Eeek

I'm not the best mapper in the world, but would you not consider the spot that's 1 west of the wheat first (the one to the NE near Darius toward the unclaimed horses)? It might already be taken by Darius, but if you hustle and get it the spot would give you sheep, wheat, horses and wine - plus it's the only place nearby that seems to have any decent forests for chopping. Then settle cities back from there.

Cities 2 and 3 seem to overlap a great deal. Would you consider city 2 somewhere further east? It should have plenty of food with the nearby floodplains.

Not a great deal of production sites - possibly to the north if you think you might be able to make something work there.

With charismatic, ivory, and gold your happiness should be good. With lots of floodplains and the ability to grow your cities, I'd say health might be an early effort. You have cows, wheat, fish, and sheep to get still, and all should help there.

Cities 2 and 3 seem to overlap a great deal. Would you consider city 2 somewhere further east? It should have plenty of food with the nearby floodplains.
I don't see why that's a problem; there are plenty of tiles for the two cities to work. City #2's current placement has the advantage that it doesn't need a border pop to be useful: e.g. it will have wheat, 3 flood plains, and a plains hill immediately available. (Because of capital's culture) And besides, there aren't very many useful ways to arrange cities that satisfy these conditions:
(1) The fish are claimed
(2) Most of the flood plains are claimed
(3) No city has too many flood plains

But I am rather curious why #3 was chosen on that spot, rather than on the tile to its Northwest. Is the plan to have it assume control of the wheat after city #2 gets its border pop and is working a bunch of flood plains?

I don't see why that's a problem; there are plenty of tiles for the two cities to work. City #2's current placement has the advantage that it doesn't need a border pop to be useful: e.g. it will have wheat, 3 flood plains, and a plains hill immediately available. (Because of capital's culture) And besides, there aren't very many useful ways to arrange cities that satisfy these conditions:
(1) The fish are claimed
(2) Most of the flood plains are claimed
(3) No city has too many flood plains

But I am rather curious why #3 was chosen on that spot, rather than on the tile to its Northwest. Is the plan to have it assume control of the wheat after city #2 gets its border pop and is working a bunch of flood plains?

Long time poster, first time lurker here. :)

I agree with this assessment, especially on the placement of City #3. I think 1 tile NW of the originally planned tile will work out better. And this new placement will also have City #3 with that one extra jumbo tile that will not be worked by the capital.

I like the originally proposed tech path. There is no copper in site, and currently there isn't a heap of forest to be chopped, and we don't have an overpopulation issue. Archery should definitely come first, then a straight beeline to pottery. However, I wouldn't put off Bronze Working for too long because eventually we will need to use slavery at some point for some mean whipping action.

I also think that grabbing that horse is very important due to lack of copper and Iron Working being so far off. Archers alone simply won't get the job done. I like the city placement proposal made two or three posts up. Wheat and sheep will more than suffice for the food issue, and the added bonus of wine and horses will be gravy. :) It also gives us more breathing room and leaves a bit more of land to backfill peacefully.

Look forward to participating more. And please, if I make some stupid or ignorant comments, please feel free to correct me.

I'm not the best mapper in the world, but would you not consider the spot that's 1 west of the wheat first (the one to the NE near Darius toward the unclaimed horses)? It might already be taken by Darius, but if you hustle and get it the spot would give you sheep, wheat, horses and wine - plus it's the only place nearby that seems to have any decent forests for chopping. Then settle cities back from there.

Cities 2 and 3 seem to overlap a great deal. Would you consider city 2 somewhere further east? It should have plenty of food with the nearby floodplains.

Not a great deal of production sites - possibly to the north if you think you might be able to make something work there.

With charismatic, ivory, and gold your happiness should be good. With lots of floodplains and the ability to grow your cities, I'd say health might be an early effort. You have cows, wheat, fish, and sheep to get still, and all should help there.

I was thinking about settling for the horses, but then I noticed that every single tile near it is plains. I'd rather research Archery and get 2 other floodplain cities. I might be able to get those horses sometime--or maybe I'll capture them from Darius.

For your point on cities 2 and 3 - I'm thinking of moving city 3 one tile northwest.

And happiness will definitely not be an issue at this point. Health and production will.

I don't see why that's a problem; there are plenty of tiles for the two cities to work. City #2's current placement has the advantage that it doesn't need a border pop to be useful: e.g. it will have wheat, 3 flood plains, and a plains hill immediately available. (Because of capital's culture) And besides, there aren't very many useful ways to arrange cities that satisfy these conditions:
(1) The fish are claimed
(2) Most of the flood plains are claimed
(3) No city has too many flood plains

But I am rather curious why #3 was chosen on that spot, rather than on the tile to its Northwest. Is the plan to have it assume control of the wheat after city #2 gets its border pop and is working a bunch of flood plains?

I chose city 3 on that site because I was thinking about switching the wheat from city 2 to 3 when city 2 is at happy cap and all cottaged, but I am thinking that a city 1 NW would be okay as well. It does overlap a lot with the capital which will definitely have a large population.

Long time poster, first time lurker here. :)

I agree with this assessment, especially on the placement of City #3. I think 1 tile NW of the originally planned tile will work out better. And this new placement will also have City #3 with that one extra jumbo tile that will not be worked by the capital.

I like the originally proposed tech path. There is no copper in site, and currently there isn't a heap of forest to be chopped, and we don't have an overpopulation issue. Archery should definitely come first, then a straight beeline to pottery. However, I wouldn't put off Bronze Working for too long because eventually we will need to use slavery at some point for some mean whipping action.

I also think that grabbing that horse is very important due to lack of copper and Iron Working being so far off. Archers alone simply won't get the job done. I like the city placement proposal made two or three posts up. Wheat and sheep will more than suffice for the food issue, and the added bonus of wine and horses will be gravy. :) It also gives us more breathing room and leaves a bit more of land to backfill peacefully.

Look forward to participating more. And please, if I make some stupid or ignorant comments, please feel free to correct me.

I have already researched Bronze Working. :lol:

And I am thinking of moving city 3...or not...or maybe....

And I do need to research Iron Working sometime. Perhaps after Writing?

...


So how does this sound?

I settle cities 1 and 2 quickly (with extra worker and/or archer between the 2 settlers) and IF Darius hasn't settled that horse/cows/wine etc area, I will settle a city there. I really don't like having a city consist of all plains tiles, though. After Writing, I think I should head to Iron Working. I'm not planning on a peaceful game after all! :lol:

And about city 3...

I know that moving it 1NW would gain it an extra Ivory, but Ivory isn't that great a tile to work and city 3 could share the wheat with city 2 if city 2 is at happy cap and doesn't need the wheat tile. Is there another reason why moving city 3 1NW would be better than where it is now?

Yay you play epic too! This means I can shadow the game without even touching WB :).

Yes, I'm going to shadow it. I'm a bit strapped for games now and then, and I wanna try some things to see if they're viable at immortal ;).

Awesome! Now I can compare my game with yours at the end. (Be careful not to post spoilers though, but I bet you knew that already.)

Immortal's still a bit above me, but there's no difficulty between it and emperor. Frustrating really. I'm liable to lose as I've only won once on immortal but we can compare nonetheless :).

I've run through the game a few times, and each time I either bot boxed in so badly or rushed/damaged beyond repair that a report would be ugly and the information isn't even a spoiler.

In other words, I got my !#$% kicked :(.

Uh-oh...hopefully I can do well...

Do you think this is a hard Immortal game?

No...I'm pretty sure good players wouldn't have trouble with it. I just can't haven't gotten early expansion timing on immortal down yet. I'm not used to getting attacked when I have that much of and army either.

Okay, I will play the next round tonight. If anyone has any last-minute advice to offer to me, please do it now. I will be following the Archery tech path first thing next round.

Round 2: 2800 BC to 1850 BC (39 Turns)


I began the round by researching Archery. I could have found a city near the horses:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0020-1.jpg

But the thing is, I absolutely hate all-plain cities, even if it's got some food resources since the city will have a hard time growing past size 4-5. Since Boudica's charismatic, why not try and grow our cities as much as possible? So archery it was. The barbarians were not much of a threat this round -- maybe they will be next round.

I also saw a bug that I had noticed occur again. Look at the foreign diplomacy screen:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0021-1.jpg

Darius I is the worst enemy of...me. :confused:

That's not all. When I hovered over Mao's face, it said that he was the worst enemy of Sitting Bull, which we have never met so why should it be displayed? Great, now we've got another protective leader in this game.

(Note that the spoiler info only happens if you access the foreign advisor--simply clicking on Mao's name ingame and hovering over him won't reveal the spoiler info.)

I waited for the capital to grow to size 4 (investing a turn into Stonehenge in the process) and then I built a settler. It would have taken 15 turns, but a chop reduced that.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0022-1.jpg

For those of you who are extreme micro-managers, I switched a citizen from the plains mine to the ivory -- they both provide 4 total food/prod to the settler but the ivory gives an extra commerce. :p

I finished Archery, went for Wheel instead of Agriculture first. I needed to hook up the pigs and connect my two cities for trade route income.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0023-1.jpg

Not much happened between the previous screenshot and the next other than the fact that I finished The Wheel, and was now researching Agriculture.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0024.jpg

The settler was completed soon after, and I started on an archer due in 4 turns. Oh yeah, also revolt to slavery. We might need it sometime.

I founded Vienne.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0026-1.jpg

The build order in that city was Monument (via whip) > Worker

As you can see in that screenshot, there was a barbarian warrior. The next turn, though, he left. Funny, I would have thought the warrior would have attempted to attack the city...maybe there's a strict timeline before barbs enter your cities on immortal?

On another note, Pacal built Stonehenge in 2350 BC. We get nine gold just for attempting to build it for one turn. :goodjob:

After Agriculture, went for Pottery. The archer was done at around the same time, an I started a second settler in the capital (my second city would be producing a worker later to compensate for the lack of a second worker from a capital).

Pottery was done before the second settler was complete and I then researched Writing.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0027-1.jpg

I completed the settler via whip.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0028-1.jpg

As well as a monument from Vienna.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0029-1.jpg

Mao, by the way, has at least three cities by this point and another settler.

In 2125 BC, I FINALLY meet another AI -- Saladin (Protective/Spiritual). What's with this game? I want to play a warmonger's game and I get 3 (maybe more!) protective leaders?!? The good news, though, is that he's bound to be far from me (I met his scout south of Mao) and he's also the founder of Judaism and he and Pacal have -4 towards each other. Both are still cautious, though.

Another wonder was completed in 2075 BC-Darius I completed the Great Wall. Well, that's not good news. All the barbs in the north will be going for me now. By the way, I can now trade resources with Darius I. How come? Neither of us have Writing and I don't have any coastal cities nor the Sailing tech.

City 3 was founded.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0030-1.jpg

That's three cities before 2000 BC. Began a monument there and will of course be completed via whip.

And Darius built his second city here (he only has two cities at this point).

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0031-1.jpg

:crazyeye:

Writing was soon done, and I decided to end the round here.

[To be continued in next post]

[Continued from previous post]


Tech choices:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0032-1.jpg

I will probably go for Alphabet next.

Map of the north followed by south:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0033-1.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0034-1.jpg

Darius I hasn't expanded into the horse region, so cities there are still an option (despite the fact that I would rather found them elsewhere).

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0035-1.jpg

I could also found a short-term, low maintenance production city here:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0036-1.jpg

OR I could found city 3 on my dotmap in round 1 and use that as a temp. great person farm.

City plans:

Capital--cottage floodplains, mine hills
Vienne-cottage (should I farm it? It would be a pretty good great person farm)
Tolso-cottage

The only thing I'm concerned now is a production site and a great person farm site. I'm torn on whether I should use one of my floodplains city for a GP farm or use a new city (by the southern fish?) for that purpose.



This ends round 2. The way I see it, I've got 2 choices.


1. Attack Mao

2. Play peaceful until Renaissance


I was originally thinking about going for plan 1, but plan 2 could be viable since I have quite some more room for expansion, I've already got some nice land, and my attack target is protective with a lot of plains cities (Mao's second city nearest to me is almost all plains with just a wheat resource to compensate for this). Pacal and Mao are also pleased with each other so I risk angering the Mayan.

So what do you think? If I play peaceful, I could expand and get some horsies. If I attack Mao, I'll likely build no more cities or maybe one more city with good production and attack the Chinese with catapults/war elephants/axes/gallic warriors.

Regardless of whether I attack or play peaceful, I think the tech plan should be to go for Alphabet. I can research Alphabet (although first I will spend a few turn at 0% research to gain some gold) and try to obtain Iron Working, Mathematics, and maybe a few other quality techs in the process. If I'm planning on warring early, then after Alphabet, I'll want to trade for Mathematics (with people like Darius and Pacal in this game they should tech to Math relatively fast) and research construction, where I can take advantage of my ivory to build war elephants. Afterwards, I'll be heading for Currency/Code of Laws, and from then on, it depends on what the game brings me.

So...attack or stay peaceful? I need your advice...:goodjob:

Haha I want to say things so bad but I don't want to spoil it for you.

I'm definitely going to replay this. I need work on my immortal play badly.

Haha I want to say things so bad but I don't want to spoil it for you.

I'm definitely going to replay this. I need work on my immortal play badly.



I hope this means there are some surprises in this game? :lol: Awesome...

but do you think I should stay at peace or war?


And by the way, feel free to post your shadow game here...just make sure that if you post anything it doesn't go beyond 1850 bc, that it doesn't give away locations of resources like iron, etc etc... It's nice to compare.

I hope this means there are some surprises in this game? :lol: Awesome...

but do you think I should stay at peace or war?


And by the way, feel free to post your shadow game here...just make sure that if you post anything it doesn't go beyond 1850 bc, that it doesn't give away locations of resources like iron, etc etc... It's nice to compare.

My self requirements for posting a shadow game are:

1. I always put them in spoilers and say what year they go to. That way, if anyone feels the info could spoil, they can promptly ignore it. I don't have to worry as much that way, and no risk of spoilage.

2. The shadow game would ideally be useful to people reading it, or at least interesting. Granted, some people might find my blunders resulting in death or pain interesting, but I can make my OWN games for that type of thing ;).

I tried war and failed. But I kind of knew it would because I did it wrong. That's all I can say without spoiling it.

OH OH! But I can tell you that you have a strategic resource! IVORY and it's just west of the capitol:crazyeye:!

I'd say that attacking Mao looks good. With elephants and catapults you should be able to take a good chunk out of him, protective or not. If need be (that is, if you are sure Mao has copper or iron) building barracks/stables might be a good idea as well so you can give out shock promotions to deal with spears.

Citywise, you'll need more production if you want to war. Building another production city, even with maintenance counted in, would be well worth it. Best for that city would possibly be to build barracks and then start cranking out catapults, while Bibracte would take care of the elephants and a few garrison troops/stack defenders.

... but then again, I'm not even near Immortal level. I'm just starting to get the hang of Emperor. So this advice might not be that useful. ;)

I'd say that attacking Mao looks good. With elephants and catapults you should be able to take a good chunk out of him, protective or not. If need be (that is, if you are sure Mao has copper or iron) building barracks/stables might be a good idea as well so you can give out shock promotions to deal with spears.

Citywise, you'll need more production if you want to war. Building another production city, even with maintenance counted in, would be well worth it. Best for that city would possibly be to build barracks and then start cranking out catapults, while Bibracte would take care of the elephants and a few garrison troops/stack defenders.

... but then again, I'm not even near Immortal level. I'm just starting to get the hang of Emperor. So this advice might not be that useful. ;)


Where would you suggest a fourth (production) city? I am playing along with the thought of having a fourth city before attacking. Not 100% sure, though.

What do you think about this city? Several farms you could throw down initially + corn and more with CS. Not to mention the 5 hills. Not too far for maintenance, may be a little high.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181135&stc=1&d=1214400457

That is not a bad city. I don't think there's enough coastal tiles to justify a Moai Statues but it would still be useful as a production city. If I found that city, then I will need to found the horse city 1east of the horse instead of 1w-2n of it. Actually, it's more likely that I will found the horse city first (closer to Darius, helps me block his expansion, and then I can backfill that city you displayed as a fifth or sixth city.

The city proposed by royal62184 would be even better 1E.
Extra hammer from building on plains hill is not to be scorned... And if you want it to be a production powerhouse, screw those ocean tiles!
You'd need to abandon your cow city,,, but that location sucks terribly anyway.

Interesting game so far and nice job dividing up the flood plains. Cottaging both those cities is probably the best idea and will soon support 2 prod cities in the north.

As for settling, I would say, 1) 1NE of the horses. It trades sheep for cow (1C for 1H, IIRC) but that is fine for a prod city. 2) 1E of royal's spot (where Yeekim suggested), if only because it gets another riverside grassland for farming.
The other prod city is good but it can wait, same with the fish city.
As for a GP farm, I'm not really sure. I suggest scouting the coast near the barb city before you decide. If there is a fish near Magyar it might be a good spot.
Also, make sure Mao doesn't grab the dyes spot, it will be great after calendar (as long as you have enough workers).

About war vs. peace, I suppose with as much land as you still have maybe (*sigh*) peace is best for now, planning on a curaissier war against Mao. Also, though it seems like you have some slow settling by the AIs, I'll bet they are just heading east more aggressively, probably better land there. If you do decide on war I wouldn't found more than the 2 prod cities before gearing up. Perhaps some more scouting will reveal the best course of action.

Good luck!

The city proposed by royal62184 would be even better 1E.
Extra hammer from building on plains hill is not to be scorned... And if you want it to be a production powerhouse, screw those ocean tiles!
You'd need to abandon your cow city,,, but that location sucks terribly anyway.

Another advantage of moving 1e is that it will get an extra grassland like jbossch mentioned. I am leaning towards founding the city in that location after founding a city near the horses beforehand.

Interesting game so far and nice job dividing up the flood plains. Cottaging both those cities is probably the best idea and will soon support 2 prod cities in the north.

As for settling, I would say, 1) 1NE of the horses. It trades sheep for cow (1C for 1H, IIRC) but that is fine for a prod city. 2) 1E of royal's spot (where Yeekim suggested), if only because it gets another riverside grassland for farming.
The other prod city is good but it can wait, same with the fish city.
As for a GP farm, I'm not really sure. I suggest scouting the coast near the barb city before you decide. If there is a fish near Magyar it might be a good spot.
Also, make sure Mao doesn't grab the dyes spot, it will be great after calendar (as long as you have enough workers).

About war vs. peace, I suppose with as much land as you still have maybe (*sigh*) peace is best for now, planning on a curaissier war against Mao. Also, though it seems like you have some slow settling by the AIs, I'll bet they are just heading east more aggressively, probably better land there. If you do decide on war I wouldn't found more than the 2 prod cities before gearing up. Perhaps some more scouting will reveal the best course of action.

Good luck!


Unfortunately, it looks like Boudica's warmongering will need to wait a while. I've got plenty of land and am not boxed in, with a protective neighbor nearby, so yeah, peace does look best for now. Your plan for founding cities is pretty good, so I will follow that (most likely, unless iron changes anything).

For a GP farm, I am thinking of a city 2E of the fish below Bibracte (city 3 that I proposed in my dotmap in the first round) which will take the wheat away from Vienne when Vienne is at its happy cap and working enough cottages. That barbarian city is just too far south to be of any use to me.

Oh yeah, and this also gives me 6 cities. Nice! Though I'll probably get a seventh or eighth if possible.

I took a look at your game and have a few comments:

Generally the area around the capital is outstanding mid-term but actually not so hot short term. You only have one big food tile and you face the normal gold issue--working the gold crimps your growth. But having the gold allows you to reach further and claim several sites without worrying about crashing the economy.

1. Why did you research mining first? Since you can't work the gold for a while AH is much better.

2. I would have settled up by the horse for city 3--I think it's unlikely Mao would have claimed your site as he has the southern horse/silk area still to claim. While there is a long term problem with a plains city like that--short terrm you need the horse and the production. If you make it to the long term you will have won easily.

3. Too early for a gran in capital--you need more workers/settlers/defenders.

4. I would have researched IW very early here. Probably I trade for it 90% of the time but I just think this is one of the minority. You have great land, powerful traits but if you don't get metal you could have an early accident.
You needed to know where the iron was by now--do you need to rush to claim it or is it secure? I didn't look that closely so not sure when I would have put it in but definately before pottery/writing. Nothing wrong with farming a few FP to let the capital grow a bit or add to settler/worker prod.
I'm a cottage addict but remember you have gold and are short food/prod so I think too early for cottages.

Anyway good luck with the game!

1. I researched mining before AH because if I went AH and worker first, the worker would have been idle for a few turns after pasturing the pigs and waiting for the mining tech to be complete (I think--my calculations might be a bit off).

2. I will be aiming for that horse city next round ASAP (well after I let my capital grow a bit).

3. I agree that it is a bit too early--I inserted it in the build queue and IIRC there are no hammers invested into it. I am planning on working mostly floodplains in the capital while it grows to maybe size 5 and do another round of worker/settler.

4. IW...I don't know...we have archers and water is surrounding my land in the west and part of the north and south so there doesn't seem to be a need for metal this quick. My neighbors also aren't the most aggressive type.

Thank you for your advice! :)

I wonder if Boudica's lack of economic bonuses would be a strike against playing peacefully until the renaissance? In contrast, if you are able to engage in steady warfare during the earlier time periods you will be able to eventually have an incredibly strong army of aggressive/charismatic units.

I'm trying to get better but immortal seems so uphill :rolleyes:. Anyway I gave this another shot. I've at least improved a little, as I have something worth putting here now.

I've played up until 520 AD, and would appreciate pointers as I'm not sure if my position is even winnable, I don't have enough immortal experience to tell:

To start off with, I settled 1 W. After moving the scout to see ivory it seemed ok to split the flood plains. Opening techs were AG and Mining.- flood plains then gold. I wanted to do the opposite of DMOC - early rush!

As anyone who's payed attention to the above can see, there's no bronze. Now, in the immortal Pacal game ABigCivFan (Who from my understanding is a consistent deity player normally? Sick) settled some commerce niceness and teched ironworking for his early attack. Indeed, here I have gold in the BFC and plenty of whipping food, so what they hey?

I managed to pop wheel from a hut, allowing me to go clean at IW after agriculture. I settled my first city to grab some more flood plains and wheat to the east of the capitol. By the time I had my 2nd settler whipped out i'd teched IW and saw some NW of the capitol, so I settled between the iron and livestock for food/production/iron access. Not much else to say here. I did lots of 2 pop whips and as Mao expanded into me I decided I was going to expand through the unfortunately protective Chinese.

I started this war around 700 BC ish. It's 520 AD and it's still ongoing. Unfortunately this map is not good for a sword rush since China settled pretty much every city it could on hills. Still, with CR II and especially III swords and their equivalents can get over 50% odds, it just isn't ideal.

I took a lot of Mao's cities. I've recently finished up CoL and am whipping more units/courthouses. I'm trying to tech construction but the immortal AI is just techs so fast.

Pacal declared on me because mao decided to be his voluntary vassal. So far I've seen very little from Pacal, but this makes the war more complicated. For one, I can't fleece techs off Mao and redeclare later now that he capitulated. I'd love to fight pacal but I'm not sure how long I'd be able to before I had maces and crossbows breathing down my neck - Mao is very behind because I'd been stomping him.

Here's some basic screen shots of my 520 AD situation:

Northern Empire
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/DMOC%20Boudica/520ADnorth0000.jpg

Southern Empire
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/DMOC%20Boudica/520adsouth0000.jpg

Tech Screen :(
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/DMOC%20Boudica/520ADtech0000.jpg

I have some WW, some "brothers and sisters of faith anger", and of course some whip anger :). I can fight a little longer, but not sure if that's optimal. Hell, at this level I'm not sure if I'm screwed already and it doesn't matter.

On the bright side, Mao had built the mids so those are mine now.

181289

I wonder if Boudica's lack of economic bonuses would be a strike against playing peacefully until the renaissance? In contrast, if you are able to engage in steady warfare during the earlier time periods you will be able to eventually have an incredibly strong army of aggressive/charismatic units.


Yeah, but the thing that contradicts it is the map gave me some room to expand and nice floodplains which take time to use to their full potential. :crazyeye:

@ TMIT: Man, I wish I could see your spoiler... :lol: but I won't.

1. I researched mining before AH because if I went AH and worker first, the worker would have been idle for a few turns after pasturing the pigs and waiting for the mining tech to be complete (I think--my calculations might be a bit off).

actually you wouldn't have idled the worker at all and
a. if you had it would have been worth it anyway to work the big tile a lot sooner.
b. you were only at risk of losing one worker turn as you could camp the ivory

2. I will be aiming for that horse city next round ASAP (well after I let my capital grow a bit).

Seems a little dangerous to wait and the risk/ reward is not worth it.
With gold and only one food, it just takes you too long to grow to work another FP cottage (and a mess of worker turns as well).


4. IW...I don't know...we have archers and water is surrounding my land in the west and part of the north and south so there doesn't seem to be a need for metal this quick. My neighbors also aren't the most aggressive type.

you don't need it immediately but you have choices as to where to settle next. The AI will know where it is by now and you may lose it. You're not really sure how the game will play out and you could find yourself without any metal at all (which could be OK since you have ivory--or not)
As for your neighbors--I think Darius is not too aggressive but Mao is a possible backstabber and he's the closer one.
Again I rarely research it myself but here you have:
1. gold+countless FP
2. no bronze
3. a choice of settling locations with no choke

At this point, however, you might be better off with your alpha-trade plan.


Thank you for your advice! :)
can't guarantee I'm right on these points but just my .02:)

This is definitely a very difficult map, and more so because the skill level is Immortal...

But what catches my eye on this map is the good number of Dye and Silk tiles, along with the surrounding grasslands, to the southeast.

If you are to overcome Boudica's lack of economic bonuses, these would be one way of doing so.

This is definitely a very difficult map, and more so because the skill level is Immortal...

But what catches my eye on this map is the good number of Dye and Silk tiles, along with the surrounding grasslands, to the southeast.

If you are to overcome Boudica's lack of economic bonuses, these would be one way of doing so.


Agreed. Though it may not be priority #1, you don't want to let Mao get the spot (nor the barb city).

Mao will definitely get the silk. He already has one city (Shanghai) near there and a border pop will mean he is 1 tile away from obtaining the silk. I'm not a fan of cultural battles, so settlign the silk might not be viable at this point. I do want to aim for the dyes, though, if possible. The dyes city could act as another cottage city so maybe I could use one of my floodplains cities for a GP farm.

Will play next round today, should post it sometime later.

Round 3: 1850 BC to 1025 BC (34 Turns)


Basically, this round was some more expanding and cottaging. No wars, though. :( But interesting things did happen.

I began by adjusting my capital to build another archer. I needed another fogbuster near my horse-city site so barbarians wouldn't ruin my day.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0042-1.jpg

After the archer was complete, I grew the city to size 5 by building something for 1 turn then going worker > settler. I really needed another worker as my two other, smaller cities, had to grow.

In terms of research at this point, I spent 3 turns at 100% wealth to accumulate some gold, then went on with Alphabet normally.

The following screenshot shows just one example of why archers were so necessary.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0043-1.jpg

The archer won his battle and has achieved enough XP for his next promotion (I haven't promoted him yet, though).

Along the way, my scout in China met Sitting Bull (Philosophical/Protective). Yeah, yeah, three protective leaders this game.... The only good news is that he and Mao are worst enemies! Now Mao shouldn't be targeting me if he goes into WHEOOHN mode. If he does, I'm screwed anyway as his power is miles beyond mine.

I also received an announcement that the Oracle was built by Pacal II so now he's ahead even further (he's #1 in GNP obviously). :(

Here's a view of the empire in 1350 BC just to give a little update. To be honest, not much happened between 1850 BC and 1350 BC.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0044-1.jpg

Vienne and Tolsoa (or something like that) both had to make 1 worker for me this round because the capital was slow-growing as a result of working the gold. My future plan is to have Vienne produce my first GS for an academy in the capital while Bibracte continues with military/workers/settlers.

Here's a view of Mao's land.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0045-1.jpg

It's not that great, but it is very foresty.

More bad news: Mao captured the southern barb city. :(

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0046-1.jpg

That is his seventh city.

Oh look, another barb city appears (barbs must love this map).

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0047-1.jpg

Thankfully, though, I can still build my future horse-city which will be 1 NE of the horse.

And it's another barb city...

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0048-1.jpg

Both cities have 4 archers in them. I'm thinking that once I have horses connected, I should send a couple of chariots to each city to see if I can capture/raze them after failed attacks by the AI. Agreed?

An interesting turn in this round was in 1075 BC when Mao converted to Judaism, Pacal II got the Buddhist shrine, and Darius I completed the Pyramids. Darius is looking more and more like my first military target. Mao's conversion also made him and Pacal cautious with each other.

Meanwhile, Alphabet was done.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0050-1.jpg

Unfortunately, even though I was first to Writing, Pacal researched Alphabet on the same turn as me, and Darius and Saladin were so close to finishing it that none of them were willing to offer techs like Masonry for Aplhabet. Perhaps going for Aesthetics would have been better.

The only thing that I could get out of Alphabet was in this trade with Sitting Bull. Mao, by the way, hasn't even researched Writing yet.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0051-1.jpg

I suffered no diplomatic demerits with Mao and I have iron north of the capital! :goodjob:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0052-1.jpg

After Alphabet, I chose to research Masonry as it was on the way to Construction which I would need sometime.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0049-1.jpg

I played another turn so that I could get my horse-city founded.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0053-1.jpg

Hopefully it will gain 150 culture before anyone captures the barb city so it will automatically flip/raze. EDIT: Never mind, the city won't flip if I get 150 culture--I'll have to either attack it or get my city to 750 culture.

And at this point, I ended the round.

[To be continued in next post]

[Continued from previous post]

Game Information

Current capital. I am planning on growing to size 6, doing another round of worker/settler, then completing the library again.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0056-1.jpg

Vienne, which will complete its library soon (should I do it by whip?) and generate my first GS.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0057-1.jpg

GNP (I am third out of seven).

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0058-1.jpg

Power (I'm last of course).

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0059-1.jpg

Maps of north and south. They are in spoilers because I made them bigger than the other images. The map of the north has no resource indicators so you can easily see my cities' populations.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0054-2.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0055-2.jpg

Things to remember or are important


I will have horses in 6 turns exactly
I will have iron in approximately 10 turns (give or take several turns)
No one is in "We have enough on our hands now" mode
There is one more AI left, and hopefully it will NOT be a protective AI
Most AI's have 5-7 cities, but Darius I has TWO cities. Yes, only 2 cities. ???
The dyes are unclaimed by Mao, and I plan on having my capital produce another settler to claim the dyes site
A barbarian city is making my northern production city invalid



My questions to you

-Where should the city near the dyes be located? I'm thinking of putting it on the river and having it coastal, which means it will be 5 tiles south of Vienne.
-What should my tech path be? My take is Masonry > Currency > Code of Laws Should Mathematics or Aesthetics come between/after those? I am a huge fan of chopping so perhaps Math before Currency? Math also reduces the time for currency IIRC, and no one has Aesthetics so I could possibly use it for trade value.




AND THE SAVE:

Does anyone hate Darius?
If no, open borders with him and send a unit scouting, so you'll have an idea about his military. Or even better, send a Spy along. I'd also focus espionage points on him.

Taking Pyramids should be the top priority right now. I wonder, if a quick attack to capitol using Spy-caused revolt would be possible?

Agree about the tech path.

Yeekim, at the moment, no AI is lower than Cautious with Darius and 1 or 2 are at pleased with him (I believe Sitting Bull?).

Yes, I will want to scout Darius' defenses. When my scout no longer needs to fogbust (he's at the dyes) I will move him to Darius' cities. The good news is that according to the power graph and demographics, I'm seventh in power and Darius is sixth. I'll probably adjust my espionage points so that I can incite one city revolt but I'll probably just use catapults mostly.

Oh, by the way, I'm thinking that since I'm such a big fan of chopping (I usually chop like crazy especially on high levels), maybe Mathematics should come after/before currency? And should Aesthetics be another target for trade value?

:bump:

Any more advice?

:bump:

Any more advice?

1) In about 2 turns you will no longer have to worry about where to found the dye city because Mao is going to get it (you can see his settler on the first turn of the save). On the plus side he puts it in the place you wanted so you won't have to raze it. :)

2) Switch research to maths. You should be able to trade for masonry and sailing on the way to construction or currency, depending on how long you want to put off the war.

3) Get some swords together ASAP and raze the northern barb city to make room for your prod city. You will need them for Cyrus anyway.

4) Found a city 2E of the fish (GP farm), then a city on top of the iron (prod).

Just my thoughts, feel free to play it like you see it. Good luck!

Round 4: 1025 BC to 65 BC (51 Turns)

Well, let's move on.

JBossch mentioned that Mao would take the dyes city from me, and unfortunately, that was right.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0125.jpg

Don't worry, we'll take care of Mao someday.

I whipped a library in Vienne so it could produce some Great Scientists.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0126.jpg

Along the way, Mao asked me to cancel deals with Sitting Bull. I oblige, as Mao is close to me and I have no idea where Sitting Bull is. Plus, half the civs here are annoyed with SB.

I finished Masonry, and then went for Mathematics, which would take a little under 20 turns due to my improved economy.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0127.jpg

Sitting Bull is the only AI who had Mathematics at that time, and he was still the only AI to have it when I finished the tech (SB would later go and research Metal Casting afterwards).

I ran 2 scientists in Vienne to earn my first Great Scientist in 25 turns.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0128.jpg

I finally got horses and started to crank out a chariot for barb defense. I later got iron and produced mostly Gallic Warriors for my military.

My scout exploring Mao's territory met the last AI - Gilgamesh (Creative/Protective). Okay, this made me REALLY mad. This is the foruth protective leader in this map, and Gilgamesh happens to be the BEST "protective" AI because he has the creative trait which pretty much automatically makes an AI a great land grabber and thus, more powerful (though Hatshepsut might be an exception to this rule). It turns out Gilgamesh is the founder of Hinduism, and far, far away from me.

Darius built his third city on top of a hill, with a sword guarding it.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0129.jpg

I decided to convert to Judaism, as my neighbors were Jewish.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0130.jpg

Mao and Saladin became pleased, and soon I begged Polytheism from Mao and he gave it to me.

My chariot got some action.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0131.jpg

Barbarians this round were actually a boon. I managed to get this one chariot to 9 XP so it can become Combat 3, and barbarians also reduced Darius' power graph by 20-ish percent even though Darius built the great wall! Here's why:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0134.jpg

Darius decided he wanted that barb city on a hill in a desert in a crappy location. And it was guarded by 5 archers. Um, okay...I positioned my troops to prepare to take the city after his attack. Lo and behold, Darius lost every single one of those troops during his failed attack. Nice going. I couldn't take the city since all the archers got promoted as a result. This is yet another reason why barbs were so helpful.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0136.jpg

Before that failed barb attack, I got Mathematics on the same turn Pacal built the Temple of Artemis.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0132.jpg

I then researched Construction for catapults.

Pacal demanded Mathematics, and I gave it to him. His power is double mine.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0133.jpg

I finally got my first Great Scientist who went to Bibracte for an academy. That shot up my beaker count from 44 to 50 if I recall correctly.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0135.jpg

Construction was completed, and I researched Currency to increse my GNP. Here was the tech situation at the time. Pacal has founded Confucianism so he has Code of Laws.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0137.jpg

A few turns later, Pacal founds Christianity. :rolleyes:

I finally garnered enough swords (Gallic Warriors) to raze the nearest barb city. It was defended by two archers.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0138.jpg

The reason it was defended by two archers was that I sent a warrior on one of the hills near the city and two archers came out of the city trying to chase the warrior, meaning that only two archers were left, and my Gallic Warriors entered the city outflanking those two archers chasing my warriors. AND the warrior also ran to the safety of 2 gallic warriors which easily disposed of them, giving them both 4 or 5 XP total. This is why the barbs were so helpful this round. :p You can see those two stupid barb archers on the very bottom of the last screenshot.

Here's the blow-by-blow.

My first Gallic Warrior attacked with 98.3% odds. If you're wondering how he got to CRII already, and you guessed barbarians, you're right!

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0139.jpg

My second Gallic warrior attacked at 86.7% odds, and the city was razed. That was easy, and it left room for me to found city #5 (Camulodunum), a destined production city.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0140.jpg

I then finished Currency and ended the round at that point. Oh yeah, Mao completed the Great Lighthouse, like that matters.

[To be continued in next post]

[Continued from previous post]


I will be inserting all images in the second part of the round by putting them in the spoiler to counteract somewhat image-heavy pages.

Defenses in Persepolis:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0142.jpg

Current tech choices:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0141.jpg

Technology situation (better than it seems since I have Construction and Currency on pretty much everyone except Sitting Bull and Darius):

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0144.jpg

GNP (3rd):

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0143.jpg

Power (neck-to-neck with Darius):

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0145.jpg

Map of north followed by south without resource indicators:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0146-1.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0147-1.jpg


Additional Information


Darius has 4 cities.
Most AI's have around 8-9, with Gilgamesh having the most.
Pacal is hogging most of the wonders and will continue to do so as he is first to Aesthetics and is researching Literature.
Sitting Bull is the worst enemy of Mao and Saladin.
I have no AI's that are annoyed or furious with me, and Darius, Mao, and Saladin are all pleased. Therefire, the diplomatic situation is favorable.
I have 46 more turns to go for my second Great Scientist who will bulb Philosophy.



So here's my plan:

Get some catapults and gallic warriors to invade Persia next round, razing Susa but keeping Persepolis of course (it's got 2 wonders!). Then I'll probably take peace or keep going depending on the situation.

My capital is building a settler to found the souther fish city, which will be a long term GP farm (I will farm those jungle tiles). After that, though, the capital will build catapults/gallic warriors.

In terms of technology, I'll probably go Priesthood > Code of Laws > Civil Service, probably grabbing Sailing and Meditation somewhere.

Overall, this game is sure shaping out to be fun! I've got a strong cottage system back in my three core cities which have high populations due to the charismatic trait, and I have a small army here:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0148-1.jpg

Hopefully we can see some action next round.

The save:

@ TheMeInTeam:

I checked out your game, and here's my thoughts:

1. Maybe you overextended yourself militarily? You've got plenty of cities from Mao and it would probably be best to take peace and get a tech out of the war while you rebuild during peace.

2. Quick settling is key on high levels. Darius I is very strong in your game (unlike mine) because he had all this free land up in the north.

3. Try and get a Great Scientist to bulb Philosophy. No one has founded it yet, which is amazing.

4. I know you have the Pyramids, but cottaging on the floodplains is probably best. You also have lots of unimproved land in formerly Chinese territory, so you need more workers.

Good luck! :)


On a completely unrelated note, I've finally finished my FIRST immortal game here when I played as Darius. Feel free to check out the game by clicking on my signature.

Heh, good luck with Darius wasting his army on barbs:D
Agree about further steps and Code of Laws being next priority.

However, is it necessary to self-research Priesthood? I'd shop around a bit to see, what trades you can get.

After the war you'll probably want to focus on civil builds (courthouses) and at this time Organized Religion would be handy. So trading for bunch of cheap tech against Currency with sb may be an option and you might just get Priesthood on top of others this way.
On the other hand, trading cheap techs builds against WFYABTA...

Another stray idea would be to try bribing Mao to attack SB. Let them build up mutual hatred and drain themselves...

I am planning on researching Priesthood since it lets me build temples for even more happiness (as you can see my three home cities have high populations already) is a prerequisite of Monarchy and Monarchy is a bit more expensive so trading to acquire it may well be worth the WFYABTA. Also, does Priesthood reduce time for Code of Laws? I know it is an optional prerequisite, but does it reduce CoL time?

Monotheism will need to be put in my tech plan sometime for OR. Or maybe I'll just skip straight from Paganism to Pacifism.

Yes, I will hopefully be focusing on courthouses after the war with Darius.

I did attempt to try and bribe Mao to attack SB. Mao's diplomatic screen shows that he is actually willing to declare war on EVERYONE. However, he won't do it for Alphabet and Mathematics combined.

AFAIK Priesthood does reduce CoL research time. All prereqs should count, even optional ones.
But playing Pacifist Boudicca is ... well... just counter-intuitive. :rolleyes: Especially since you seem to be running CE.

After CoL I would go for Feudalism rather then CS, and use Pyramids for Police State rather than Rep.

That is, switch into relentless warmongering mode, apart from whipping courthouses. Of course, with these Protective civs right and left, that is going to be tough... But then again, waiting is not going to make this easier.

Good luck.

I will check the research time for CoL before Priesthood and after Priesthood, and hopefully no other AI will know CoL which would reduce the cost and make math difficult.

Actually the reason I want to go to Pacifism is to generate lots of Great Scientists in one city (probably Vienne). I don't know if I would want to go to Feudalism, though. I'm a fan of researching CS soon.

I will probably play the next round today. Hopefully someone else posts so the next round will be on the 4th page (less images per page).

Actually the reason I want to go to Pacifism is to generate lots of Great Scientists in one city (probably Vienne).

Well, that is obvious :) However, you need to carefully balance the opportunity cost: lightbulbs vs increased army maintenance (imho if you plan to continue any sort of warmongering after destroying Persia, you will bankrupt yourself with Pacifism) and giving up OR. Also, value of bulbed techs is smaller in this particular game, since you probably will have very few trading partners, hence not much brokering...


I don't know if I would want to go to Feudalism, though. I'm a fan of researching CS soon.

I'd like to hear a 3rd opinion on that one... Vassalage and option to vassalize an enemy sooner would be helpful as well. Bibracte would become a powerhouse with CS, but then again free units from Vassalage would maybe offset the commerce bonus...
And each free Exp point is more valuable with Chm...

Well, that is obvious :) However, you need to carefully balance the opportunity cost: lightbulbs vs increased army maintenance (imho if you plan to continue any sort of warmongering after destroying Persia, you will bankrupt yourself with Pacifism) and giving up OR. Also, value of bulbed techs is smaller in this particular game, since you probably will have very few trading partners, hence not much brokering...



I'd like to hear a 3rd opinion on that one... Vassalage and option to vassalize an enemy sooner would be helpful as well. Bibracte would become a powerhouse with CS, but then again free units from Vassalage would maybe offset the commerce bonus...
And each free Exp point is more valuable with Chm...

Don't worry, I don't plan on doing anymore warmongering after Persia until the Renaissance or so where my economy is booming.

Well, I do like the vassal situation, but the problem comes with diplomatic demerits. You automatically get +1 and some AI's who look "plesaed" with me may actually be "cautious" if they are annoyed with my vassal. The extra experience is good, though, especially with Charismatic. Hm...

I've played the next round. Things are looking good -- Mao and I are teaming up and smacking Darius around. :goodjob:

Round 5: 65 BC to 385 AD (31 Turns)

Well, we finally got to see some wars go on.

First of all, to begin the round, I researched Priesthood knowing that it was an optional prerequisite of Code of Laws and therefore it would reduce the time needed for CoL.

Well...it didn'nt. CoL cost 852 beakers before Priesthood and afterwards. ???

Anyway, I finished the tech in a timely manner, with only Pacal II knowing it prior to my discovery.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0149.jpg

Next up, Civil Service.

Sitting Bull asks me to cancel deals with Mao...no no no.

I made this deal with Gilgamesh.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0150.jpg

I have two wine sources in my territory. By the way, that trade above was full price (Gilgamesh had 100 gold in his treasury).

Finally, after some chopping, whipping, and slow, slogging production, I managed to muster enough forces to feel safe for a declaration of war.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0151.jpg

Darius I has monarchy, but not feudalism, so I shouldn't be seeing any longbows (and I didn't this round).

I also bribed Mao in the war. Mao was either pleased or friendly with Darius when I bribed him (I swear that at one point he was friendly with Darius this round, though it might have dropped to pleased for that one turn. What a backstabber). In the future, with Mao in the game, I will definitely try and use him as bribing bait considering that he's willing to declare on anyone at pleased stance (check the screenshot). The weird thing is, he's annoyed with Sitting Bull yet Mao won't declare on him.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0152.jpg

I also made this trade with Pacal, again at full price.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0153.jpg

Several turns into the war, I managed to reach Susa, and was surprised at how weakly defended it was. Darius didn't even try to whip some units.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0154.jpg

At the cost of one catapult, I captured the city, and kept it, knowing that if I razed it another AI would just resettle a city there.

After a few turns of healing/recuperating (I forgot a medic! :mad:) I assaulted the capital, which was also weakly defended. This must explain why Darius and I were neck-to-neck on the power graph. He should have whipped another crossbow considering he had Machinery for a while.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0155.jpg

At the cost of two catapults, I attacked the city and burned it to the ground.




















Kidding, I kept it. Check out the loot!

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0156.jpg

2 wonders and a scotland yard! No more barb concerns now.

Mao also proved he was no slouch either and captured a marginal southern city of Darius, who is now reduced to two cities.

Civil Service was researched while the bulk of my forces were resting in Persepolis, and I ended the round. I was first to Civil Service, by the way.

[To be continued in next post]

[Continued from previous post]



Note: All images in the second installment are in spoilers again since I made them bigger and the pages in this thread are likely to be image - heavy.

The main decision that I have now is whether to continue the war or not. On the plus side, Darius is weakened so there is likely to be little left of him. On the minus side, one of his cities is poorly placed. If I continue the war, it will likely be to capture the northern city, Pasargadae, which is a great cottage site despite that its got some impassable ice. Darius, as of now, has three cities left (one isn't visible -- it's to Pasargadae's west).

Here's the city Mao captured:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0159-1.jpg

Nothing particularly dangerous.

Darius is willing to throw in the towel.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0161-1.jpg

I could probably see if I could get some more expensive techs, seeing as the gold Darius is offering is all he has left. If I am forced to take this, I will just remove Meditation because I can research it quickly.

My plan, though, is to continue the war, scouting out Darius's new capital. If it's capturable, I will attack it. If not, I will sue for peace as Darius won't ever be a threat again.

In terms of technology, here's what I can research.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0158-2.jpg

I'm thinking of going the Aesthetics/Literature path to unlock the epics and then from there go Paper > Education. Pacal II is the only AI with Aesthetics (and Literature as well).

I also have a settler hanging around, waiting for this city to be founded.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0160-2.jpg

The settler has been there before the war, and now that it is nearing completion, I will probably settle the city first thing next round, but cottaging it. Vienne, one of my three core cities, is producing enough Great Person points and has enough food.

------------------------------------

Now for some in-depth stuff.

Domestic advisor.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0165-1.jpg

Technology advisor. I have Civil Service on everyone.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0166-1.jpg

Power graph. See Darius' drop in power.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0164-1.jpg

Map of my west lands, which is producing the vast majority of my commerce.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0162-1.jpg

Map of the east.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0163-1.jpg

----------------------------------------


So this is my plan that I will follow. Feel free to add/criticize/congratulate (especially congratulate).

I will basically check to see if I can capture Pasargadae. If I can, then I'll do it and keep it as it is another great commerce site. Persepolis is even better with its two irrigated corn. After capturing Pasargadae, I'll just raze Darius' last two cities if Mao hasn't gotten it already so my cities aren't unhappy.

In terms of research, go Aesthetics/Literature then Paper/Education. I shouldn't have much of a problem raising my beaker count. Charismatic is doing a GREAT job here as you can see my top 3 cities are all size 9-10 and Vienne could be size 11. With representation, that's basically 3 extra population points for me, so my cities will have very high populations pre-1000 AD.

For Great People, Vienne is 16 turns away from my second Great Scientist who will bulb Philosophy. At this rate, it looks like Liberalism is in the bag.

Civics. I now have the Pyramids and will switch to Representation/Bureaucracy/Caste System (a 3 civic switch) first thing next round (it's actually better to do civic changes in war than in peace since in war little research gets done anyway). Unfortunately, Pacal II and Gilgamesh have Hereditary Rule as their favorite civics so I'll be missing out on that.

I think I am relatively safe in terms of diplomacy. I have 2 annoyed AI's, 2 cautious AI's and 2 pleased AI's. Sitting Bull and Darius I are the annoyed ones but Darius is a non-factor and Sitting Bull is the worst enemy of 3 leaders. Gilgamesh and Pacal II are cautious--that's fine with me as both are kind of far away. Mao and Sal are pleased, which is great since Mao is the closest to me.

The save, as usual, and awaiting your comments. :goodjob:

First of all, to begin the round, I researched Priesthood knowing that it was an optional prerequisite of Code of Laws and therefore it would reduce the time needed for CoL.

Well...it didn'nt. CoL cost 852 beakers before Priesthood and afterwards. ???

It doesn't reduce the beaker cost of the tech but it adds a bonus to your science. If you check the research bar every turn you'll see that you gain much more per turn than what you see in the upper left corner. It's the same thing with civs knowing the tech.

Didn't get to read everything nor look at the save yet so I'll save further comments for later.

It doesn't reduce the beaker cost of the tech but it adds a bonus to your science. If you check the research bar every turn you'll see that you gain much more per turn than what you see in the upper left corner. It's the same thing with civs knowing the tech.

Didn't get to read everything nor look at the save yet so I'll save further comments for later.

Really? Wow, I didn't know that. Thank you for sharing it.

Does this apply to ANY tech that has multiple prerequisites?

Darius' new capital would certainly be worth it, since it's green lands rather than the plains you seem to get on this map. The risk of dangerous troops (xbows) is not present since he no longer has iron, so my vote would be for continuing the war.

And yes: Mao is a backstabber. So... don't forget to guard your borders with him.

Really? Wow, I didn't know that. Thank you for sharing it.

Does this apply to ANY tech that has multiple prerequisites?

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/tech_research.php

Yes as long as they are arrows on the tech graph. You get an additive 20% bonus per tech with arrow.

Note this means that you always have at least one 20% modifier except for those with no "arrows" going in (starting techs, Divine Right, Astronomy, any others?)

Darius' new capital would certainly be worth it, since it's green lands rather than the plains you seem to get on this map. The risk of dangerous troops (xbows) is not present since he no longer has iron, so my vote would be for continuing the war.

And yes: Mao is a backstabber. So... don't forget to guard your borders with him.

I forgot about crossbows requiring iron so I will definitely go after Darius' new capital.

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/tech_research.php

Yes as long as they are arrows on the tech graph. You get an additive 20% bonus per tech with arrow.

Note this means that you always have at least one 20% modifier except for those with no "arrows" going in (starting techs, Divine Right, Astronomy, any others?)

I will remember this for the future. :goodjob:

I will post the next round by Monday, or Tuesday.

It seems to me that there are 3 Persian cities to the north: one to the west of Pasargadae and one probably on a small island off-shore.

It seems to me that there are 3 Persian cities to the north: one to the west of Pasargadae and one probably on a small island off-shore.

Nope, you can see it in his trade screen, just Ecbatana and Gordium are remaining apart from Pasargadae. The Persian borders in the sea result from the capture of Persepolis (haven't readjusted yet).

didn't take a look at the save but at glance it seems clear to finish him.
All you get from leaving him is -happy and culture problems.

I'm hoping mao will help get the job done by razing the southern persian city. If not I guess I'll have to do it myself. I would like to get some technologies for peace, hopefully something like machinery.

Definitely finish the Persians. Is Mao still in the war? If so, you will want to make sure he doesn't grab any more of Cyrus's cities.

Good job so far!
Certainly finish off Darius.

I was little bit surprised to see you did not use War Elephants, but I get it now - you have no Horseback Riding. Pity, these beasts rock!

On a related note, I see that Mao has neither ChukoKoNus nor longbows yet:scan:... If there are any juicy cities he has, I would even consider going for HBR while you mop up Darius and then hitting on Mao hard and fast, before he gets to his UU.

Dunno, maybe I'm too belligerent, but I would very much love to see Boudicca's traits played to the maximum.

And, you want to switch out of Slavery? Heretic! Why not whip some infra into your captured cities first?

Round 6: 385 AD to 990 AD (46 Turns), Part I


Moving along here since I need to finish this game by a certain date unless we want this game to last until the middle of August.

I first started off with a double civic switch.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0167.jpg

Representation for increased happiness/beakers and Bureaucracy to boost my capital. I still needed to whip some buildings in my cities so I stuck to slavery.

I also founded Verlamion.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0168.jpg

It will be a decent city. I was thinking about cottaging it but later on near the end of the round I was thinking of converting it to a future Globe Theatre city for drafting.

Oh, by the way, barbarian cities have culture?!?

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0169.jpg

This is only the second time I have seen this happen.

Anyway, back to the war. I rested/healed most of my stack and moved them to capture Pasargadae, but unfortunately, Darius gave me a surprise when he discovered Feudalism and has several longbows defending!

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0170.jpg

There actually should have been 1 more longbow in the city. Where did that one extra longbow go?

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0171.jpg

I moved my scout to that hill, and a longbow decided to chase after him. Maybe he was scared of my scout who can't attack? :lol: Well, I wasn't complaining.

Breaking through Pasargadae was, as expected, difficult. I only had three catapults available, and I was attacking across a river as I didn't want to risk wasting an extra turn moving a tile north.

I decided to attack the city with all three catapults first, fully expecting them to die -- and they did. After the catapults did their duty, this was what Pasargadae's defenders looked like.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0172.jpg

At the cost of several swords, I captured the city. I took advantage of the fact that I had a chariot with me to steal one of Darius' workers, bringing my total to seven.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0173.jpg

My stack was now basically ruined and injured, and there was no way I could capture another city (Darius' city of Gordium up north had several defenders IIRC not including that extra longbow and swordsman outside of the city. I sued for peace despite that I only needed 3 more XP to my first Great General.

Darius offered this at first.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0174.jpg

I switched the peace deal so he would just give me Sailing and Monotheism.

Mao also made peace with Darius soon, without vassalizing him.

On the tech front, I finished researching Aesthetics and went on to Literature to unlock both epics.

Pacal, meanwhile, captured the barb city.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0175.jpg

Once again, barbarians have proven to be extraordinarily helpful on this map. Mao lost 5 troops trying to capture this city (horse archers and chariots). Pacal now has 15 cities!

Literature didn't take very long. Up next was Paper.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0176.jpg

Midway through discovering Paper, I traded away Civil Service to three leaders, Darius, Gilgamesh, and Saladin, neeting Machinery, Feudalism, Calendar, and Horseback Riding from them (I also had to include some extra gold on my side of the deal in several cases). This had the effect of putting Pacal II in his limit for "We Fear You Are Being Too Advanced," but everyone else is still willing to trade, except for Sitting Bull but who cares?

I used that Woodsman II scout, the same one which fooled Darius' longbow, to explore. He found Gilgamesh's territory to the east of Pacal II.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0177.jpg

Not much really happened now that there was peace. In terms of Great People, Vienne soon generated my second Great Scientist, and what did he do?

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0178.jpg

So now I am the first to Philosophy. Is it just me, or is the tech pace in this game really slow? Perhaps it has to do with the abundant plains on this map. Anyway, I adopted Pacifism and Caste System to quicky generate lots of Great Scientist specialists in Vienne.

There was also some good news, albeit rather insignificant when concerning my empire, on the diplomatic front. Sitting Bull declared war on Gilgamesh (655 AD). It wasn't a phony war as proved by the two or three great generals born out of the conflict.

Darius continued to be a pain by founding a stupid city taking Persepolis' culture.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0179.jpg

Lest I forget, Pacal II continued to be a wonder-whoring maniac this round. He constructed the Sistine Chapel and the Hagia Sohia, just to name a few. He also constructed the Apostolic Palace in Mutal.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0180.jpg

I voted for him, of course, to gain the +2 diplomatic points. He still remained at cautious, however.

While I was exploring, I couldn't resist laughing at Gilgamesh's capital.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0181.jpg

This reminds me of Gilgamesh's capital in the Charlemagne (Carolus Magnus) Immortal University. :goodjob: This capital, though, is MUCH better.

While I was researching Education after Paper, I managed to get my THIRD Great Scientist.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0182.jpg

He bulbed the rest of Education. This is why I kept my science at 0% so that I could accumulate wealth and the scientist would waste minimal beakers from bulbing.

And if you can believe it or not, after 18 turns of construction in Bibracte:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0183.jpg

I completed the Great Library. Pacal II is STILL the only AI who has knowledge of Literature, and this was perhaps the one wonder he decided not to build.

Soon after the construction of the Great Library, Mao declared war on Sitting Bull. I will join in if he or Gilgamesh asks me to. Also, Darius I became a free state (he vassalized voluntarily to Saladin in the middle of the round) again which means I can target him again, and I think I will, considering it's just three cities I have to deal with now.

I researched Liberalism until there was one turn left to completion, and then I ended the round.

[To be continued in next post]

[Continued from previous post]

Round 6: 385 AD to 990 AD (46 Turns), Part II


We're onto the second part of the round and that means it's time for all the boring stuff like advisors, etc etc etc.

Domestic Advisor

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0184.jpg

Civics

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0185.jpg

Technology

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0186.jpg

Trades

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0187.jpg

GNP Graph

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0188.jpg

Power Graph

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0189.jpg

Map of my empire

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0190.jpg

Map of the world

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0191.jpg


Well, it seems like I'll have to conquer quite a bit of territory for domination, as I only have 14 percent land area at the moment.

However, this is my immediate plan, and of course, as usual, feel free to congratulate or disagree/criticize/suggest :goodjob:.


I will finish Liberalism and pick Nationalism as the free technology. As an alternative, I could research Nationalism and pick up Military Tradition as my free tech, which is more expensive. This has the benefit of letting my Camulodunum city develop itself a little further to build the Taj Mahal.
I will build the Taj Mahal in Camulodunum, which is the northern coastal production city.
I will convert my southern fish city to Globe Theatre
I will somehow obtain Engineering/Theology/Drama for the upcoming wars.
I will use Theology to adopt Theocracy to get Saladin to friendly and make 5 XP macemen to upgrade to rifles.
I will tech to Printing Press > Replaceable Parts > Rifling and amass an army of riflemen to take over Darius and then Mao.


Just for additional information, my next Great Scientist is due in 25 turns in the capital. Saladin and Mao are also still pleased on the diplomatic front.

Save:

However, this is my immediate plan, and of course, as usual, feel free to congratulate or disagree/criticize/suggest :goodjob:.


I will finish Liberalism and pick Nationalism as the free technology. As an alternative, I could research Nationalism and pick up Military Tradition as my free tech, which is more expensive. This has the benefit of letting my Camulodunum city develop itself a little further to build the Taj Mahal.
I will build the Taj Mahal in Camulodunum, which is the northern coastal production city.
I will convert my southern fish city to Globe Theatre
I will somehow obtain Engineering/Theology/Drama for the upcoming wars.
I will use Theology to adopt Theocracy to get Saladin to friendly and make 5 XP macemen to upgrade to rifles.
I will tech to Printing Press > Replaceable Parts > Rifling and amass an army of riflemen to take over Darius and then Mao.




Are you sure that Macemen can upgrade to Riflemen? I thought that they upgrade to Grenadiers (I'm not 100% sure though).

As for choosing between Military Tradition and Nationalism, remember that Boudica's Aggressive trait applies to gunpowder units, but not mounted units. So maybe try to leverage Aggressive by building primarily gunpowder units. I therefore don't see much use for Military Tradition in the short term, compared to some of the economic techs that you can research next. My suggestion, therefore, is to get Nationalism as the free tech and follow up with Gunpowder (or maybe trade for it) and economic techs.

Check diplo with Pacal for cash. If he was building the GLib he will have a bunch of gold on hand for trade if you want it. Just an idea.

Given your pretty healthy tech situation, would you consider teching Nationalism then let your Great Scientist give you printing press (or a good portion of it)? You can then use Liberalism to get Replaceable parts and leapfrog into rifling? Saladin would be the only threat to getting Liberalism first, and you'll know when he gets Education on board.

Or is that too risky on immortal level?

@JBossch - the tech screen shows Pacal with only 50 gold.

Are you sure that Macemen can upgrade to Riflemen? I thought that they upgrade to Grenadiers (I'm not 100% sure though).

As for choosing between Military Tradition and Nationalism, remember that Boudica's Aggressive trait applies to gunpowder units, but not mounted units. So maybe try to leverage Aggressive by building primarily gunpowder units. I therefore don't see much use for Military Tradition in the short term, compared to some of the economic techs that you can research next. My suggestion, therefore, is to get Nationalism as the free tech and follow up with Gunpowder (or maybe trade for it) and economic techs.

I am 100% sure macemen upgrade to both grenadiers and rifles. I actually do the process of getting a bunch of macemen to city raider 2 and then using the great merchant from economics to get enough money to upgrade them all to rifles in my offline games.

You do have a point. Military Tradition is not very appealing since Boudica won't get the extra combat promotion to cavalry. She will, though, get them for macemen which I can upgrade to rifles. I think I will get Nationalism as the free tech. :goodjob:


Given your pretty healthy tech situation, would you consider teching Nationalism then let your Great Scientist give you printing press (or a good portion of it)? You can then use Liberalism to get Replaceable parts and leapfrog into rifling? Saladin would be the only threat to getting Liberalism first, and you'll know when he gets Education on board.

Or is that too risky on immortal level?

@JBossch - the tech screen shows Pacal with only 50 gold.

I was thinking about self-researching Nationalism and using Liberalism for something along the road, but after pondering for a while, I don't think I will do this. It's not that risky in this particular immortal game but it's just that Replaceable Parts and Nationalism have the same beaker price IIRC, and if I get Nationalism sooner, I can start the Taj Mahal sooner and that golden age will boost my research while I tech to Rifles. :goodjob:

By the way, I don't have a Great Scientist, I used it to bulb Education.

---------------------------

In terms of military, I'm thinking of adopting Theocracy ASAP (which will make Saladin Friendly towards me) and making an army of CR2 C1 macemen to finish off Darius. Those macemen will then be experienced veterans that will be upgraded into more potent riflemen.

And to pay for the upgrades, I'm going for Economics. I'm pretty sure I have no threat to getting that free Great Merchant.


By the way, why does Sitting Bull tech so horribly? It's 990 AD and he doesn't have POLYTHEISM. :lol:

I was thinking about self-researching Nationalism and using Liberalism for something along the road, but after pondering for a while, I don't think I will do this. It's not that risky in this particular immortal game but it's just that Replaceable Parts and Nationalism have the same beaker price IIRC, and if I get Nationalism sooner, I can start the Taj Mahal sooner and that golden age will boost my research while I tech to Rifles. :goodjob:

By the way, I don't have a Great Scientist, I used it to bulb Education.



I thought Replaceable Parts was pricier in terms of beakers, so that makes sense - unless you were really feeling wild and wanted to hold off and get rifling as your Liberalism tech. Probably not worth it - not sure if rifling is more expensive either. On lower levels I sometimes head for steel if I have a tech lead like this with Liberalism one turn away. Cannons are great and unaffected by the flanking damage, and some of the pre-reqs are very tradeable.

I know you used the GS for education, but you said you had GS coming on board in about 25 turns if I recall. Thought it would work out given that would be enough time to tech Nationalism and a portion of PP before that scientist could be used to complete PP. Moot point anyway.

I thought Replaceable Parts was pricier in terms of beakers, so that makes sense - unless you were really feeling wild and wanted to hold off and get rifling as your Liberalism tech. Probably not worth it - not sure if rifling is more expensive either. On lower levels I sometimes head for steel if I have a tech lead like this with Liberalism one turn away. Cannons are great and unaffected by the flanking damage, and some of the pre-reqs are very tradeable.

I know you used the GS for education, but you said you had GS coming on board in about 25 turns if I recall. Thought it would work out given that would be enough time to tech Nationalism and a portion of PP before that scientist could be used to complete PP. Moot point anyway.


Rifling is more expensive than Nationalism by about 1000 beakers (epic speed), but this may be off.

Oh yes, forgot about that great scientist. :D I think I will use him to bulb Printing Press (after picking Nationalism as free tech I will begin to tech towards Economics which gives my GS enough time to appear to bulb Printing Press).

I've finished the next round, which ended on the brink of war with Mao (NOT Darius as you will find out things went differently than expected). Will post it in the morning.

Round 7: 990 AD to 1455 AD (67 Turns), Part I


To start off the round, I first chose Nationalism as my free technology from Liberalism.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0192.jpg

There wasn't a better alternative and I didn't want to grab a later technology since they weren't that much more expensive than Nationalism. After Liberalism, I teched towards Drama (theatres) then Guilds (on the way to Economics).

Sitting Bull loses a city to Mao. This game doesn't seem to be going well for him.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0193.jpg

A few turns later, an AP vote ended the war between the two (but it DIDN'T end the war between Sitting Bull and Gilgamesh). Great, now Mao needs to be bribed again to war.

Speaking of our Chinese neighbor, I made a trade with him to get Engineering. Mao is one of the more backward AI's on the map (but the most powerful).

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0194.jpg

Once I finished researchign Guilds, it was on to Banking. I was the first to Guids, by the way.

Along the way, Gilgamesh founds Islam. :rolleyes:

Banking in, go for Economics and the free Great Merchant. Still, no AI has Guilds at this time.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0195.jpg

An interesting AP vote came up.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0196.jpg

I voted to give the city back to Sitting Bull. This would just make Mao less powerful (what I want) and Sitting Bull more powerful (what I want). It isn't much, but I'm hoping Sitting Bull can keep Mao and Gilgamesh distracted while I prepare for my war with Mao.

Speaking of war preparations, I switched to Theocracy after I had several cities ready to build units (i.e. 1 turn away). Saladin is now friendly and is willing to sign a defensive pact, which means he somehow teched Nationalism and Military Tradition. I accept a Defensive Pact.

I finished Economics in 1240 AD (IIRC, no AI had Guilds. The tech pace in this game is incredible) to get the free Great Merchant. Does anyone know a fast and efficient way to see how much gold a GM will get from a city without having to go and manually check every city? I tested the GM at Beijing, Mecca, but settled on Mutal (Pacal's capital with the 10 or so wonders in it).

After Economics, I tech to Gunpowder. Meanwhile, Mao declares on Sitting Bull again. Excellent!

A Great Scientist was soon born out of Bibracte (because of the Great Library) and I used him to bulb a healthy portion of Printing Press.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0197.jpg

Saladin, however, already had Printing Press by that date, and maybe one more AI (Gilgamesh?). The effect of Printing Press was substantial when it was researched, raising my beaker count per turn from 402 to 446 at 70% research. After Printing Press, I researched Replaceable Parts (I already had Gunpowder) and then to Rifling.

I get a random event and take the free scientist. Other options were to have happiness for a short burst of time and something else.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0198.jpg

Now I came to a significant decision point. Darius' three cities were culturally pressing two of my cities and I was preparing to war with him. However, Darius was willing to be my voluntary vassal.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0199.jpg

I checked the diplomacy situation and accepted. Saladin was the only AI I really cared about upsetting at this point and Saladin was Friendly towards Darius, which meant that Saladin would still be "Friendly" with me despite having a vassal. As a bonus, I now was able to fully utilize Persepolis and Pasargadae's fat crosses.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0200.jpg

This, of course, meant that Mao is the next, immediate target.

To make Mao busy, I bribe him to war with Pacal II. Pacal II was in a Golden Age and his demographics were skyrocketing so he needed some slowing down. The war resulted in Great Generals from both sides, and a couple of cities being captured/recaptured. Nothing particularly major. The good news, though, was that Mao lost his stack of doom, which I FINALLY managed to find with my scouts in Chinese territory.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0201.jpg

Pacal II became annoyed at this time, so I thought it was best to use the Great Merchant NOW than risk losing Open Borders. I obtained 2550 gold.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0202.jpg

Now, the reason Pacal's demographics skyrocketed was that he completed the Taj Mahal in Mutal (yeah he beat me to it) so he now had the Golden Age. Speaking of which, Pacal completed the Spiral Minaret, Versailles, the University of Sankore, Angkor Wat, and possibly a few others that I forgot.

To somewhat compensate for the lost golden age, I generated a lot of Great Merchant specialists in Persepolis, hoping to burn one for a Golden Age. I got a Great Engineer instead from the Pyramids. I was really tempted to use him for a later wonder but decided that it was best to just have a golden age.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0203.jpg

This, of course, skyrocketed my GNP as I have a lot of cottages.

Finally, the most important tech of the round was researched.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0204.jpg

Kind of ironic who said that quote above. :lol:

No AI had Replaceable Parts, so I was feeling confident with my soon-to-be rifle army.

I researched Chemistry after Rifling.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0205.jpg

I got a really nice random event which gave +1 happiness to EVERY city. I wish I get those kind of events more often.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0206.jpg

I finished Chemistry soon after and began Optics as it was a prerequisite for Astronomy which everyone else had (even though it's next to useless on a Pangea map).

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0207.jpg

Once Optics was in, I opted for Steel. No AI had it and I was hoping to use Steel to backfill several techs I had missed along the way, which will be shown in the technology advisor screen in part II of this round.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0208.jpg

With all the gold I had in hand, I upgraded 10 mostly City Raider 2 maces to rifles, which cost 2000 gold. I also upgraded 6 Gallic Warriors (all city raiders) to rifles, costing 2010 gold.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0209.jpg

And I forgot to mention that during the Golden Age, I switched to Nationhood so that I could draft units. I didn't build the Globe Theatre in the southern fish city (took too long) so I went for the horse city in plains. Yes, it's a horrible GT location but it was a horrible city anyway and it provided me with virtually free rifles every turn or two.

As a result from all this army build up, my stack looked like this.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0210.jpg

In Part II, I will talk about my war plan.


[To be continued in next post]

Round 7: 990 AD to 1455 AD (67 Turns), Part II

[Continued from previous post]


I will show some statistics first then lay out my plan.

Domestic:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0211.jpg

Foreign:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0216.jpg

Technology:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0215.jpg

Civics:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0214.jpg

GNP:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0212.jpg

Power:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0213.jpg


All that military has catapulted my power rating, but it's not near Mao's. I don't really think that will be an issue, though.

So basically, war with Mao is inevitable next round. I've mapped out his territory.

http://i272.photobucket.com/a