This is a SG especially for Sirp and me, and some others (I'll have to talk to Sirp about the number.....), where I'll be the novice who gets checked out by Sirp.......... he wants to see what I do to invite massive AI sneak attacks :)


Player order:

Killer
Sirp (up now)
William
SirJethro

yes, I'm in :)

Killer, I don't consider you a "novice"; you sound like you know what you're doing, I just want to resolve the rather different games we seem to be playing. I'm using the latest patch btw (whatever number it is - the one just released), so I hope you are too. Anyone who wants to play will have to be.

What civ are we using?

Hey Sirp, great! The novice thing was just a joke :lol:

1.29 it is, the latest.... I found that i get far less sneak attacks if I am aggressive - that is stack my meager troops at the border. Strange behaviour of the AI.....

I would say random, see what the 'puter hands us......... OK?

I would like to join, I've nothing to do for the next 5 weeks!

ok William, you're in. I suspect that Killer and I will want to keep the game moving pretty fast.

:D

ok, so I suggest without further ado, we get this one rolling; I assume the order at the moment is:

Killer
Sirp
William

unless you'd like me to start Killer?

Does the usual rules aply?
24 hours to comfirm, and 48 hours to play?

You guys still open for players?

SirJethro - welcome, I'd say..

Sirp: I'll start early tomorrow morning with a game like those where I had the snaek attacks.

Welcome SirJethro.

Thanks guys.

Lt. 'K' .... can you send me a link to the list of changes in your MOD so I can hone up on them? Do I need to download anything to play or will the savegame include the modifications to the rules?

OK, here's the game, I will then post the changes asap. No need to DL anything - just play the game. I recommend battle animation off though.....

We are the Aztrecs, map is standard size, continents with little water, Monarch level, 7 random opponents, culturally linked is off, respawn is off.

IMPORTANT CHANGE: graasland, floodplain, plain give NO defence bonus!!!!!



(1) 4000 BC - start is one tile off the coast near a river. move settler 1 tile inland to no-bonus grassland.

(2) 3950 BC - Tenochtitlan founded, science at 100% --> Pottery (cheapest)

(3)-(7) nohting

(8) 3700 BC - Jag Warrior produced, another ordered, moves to hut and gets Bronze Working

(9) 3650 BC - moves

(10) 3600 BC - hut w barbs

(11) 3550 BC - promotion to elite, wines in the northeast

(12) 3500 BC - another JW, moves

(13) 3450 BC - moves

(14) 3400 BC - moves

(15) 3350 BC - moves

(16) 3300 BC - 3rd JW goes west, 1 more ordeded, then settler.

(17) 3250 BC - Wheel from hut, French (?) are in the norhteast.

(18) 3200 BC - red borders in the south, France gives Alphabet, Masonry and 10 GOld for Wheel, Ceremonial Burial and Warrior Code.

(19) 3150 BC - we find Pottery and go for Mysticism (cheapest) @ 100%. Riding from hut, JW fortified in Tenochtitlan, settler ordered. Rome contacted. They have nothing to offer, we are 5 tech ahead. Budget -1 due to too many units.

(20) 3000 BC - running past Rome, JW withdrawn from French territory.



all for now, here's the save:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/KS1-3100BC.zip

if we stick to the playing style that got me sneak attacked all the time in my last games, we should expand at all cost, but not go to war. Be friendly and so on..... :lol:


Looks rather nice once we get out of Despotism, quite a growth potentail in the vincinity of the capital.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/KS1.jpg

red dot marks game, blue one Horses (Rome has them, too), green marks wine.

+ is possible city location.

Sirp, you are up next.
Getting the horse isn't going to be easy, hope there's iron near by.

OK player order: Sirp next, then Wiiam, the SirJethro....

changes:

I based the game on my mod, which has the following changes:

- Ancient tech except Monarchy and Republic + ~1/3 cost.
- Max research time 50 turns.
- Hills can be irrigated
- Tundra gives no food, but 1 tax (so roads ar buildable)
- Desert gives no food, but 1 tax (roads buildable)
- no towns in deserts and Tundras!!!!!
- Resources give more bonus (now it`s worth fighting for them even if they aren`t strategic)
- AI-AI trade is 100% on Regent, 110% on Monarch and so on.
- Bombard changed accordingly.
- 2 new cultural levels, 1 at 5:2, one at 3:2 so rate can be judged better.
- more Uumpfff for battleships (bombard now 1,5 times that of cruisers)
- age bonus (1 to 4 HP) for advanced units,
- better attack for nuke subs and subs,
- changed HP to conscript=4, regular=6, veteran=8, elite=11
- changed bombardment accorgingly,
- added bombardment for all bow-equipped units and all fast units with guns plus tank and Modern armour,
- added free units / town for Republic since now often Monarchy is preferable over Republic because of large Military.

yup, I will play shortly. Killer, you didn't tell me about these rules! What's with the insane number of hitpoints? Please list *all* rules changes :)

btw, what graphics mod are you using? It looks nice.

There's some fertile land out towards those frenchies, but I suspect they will get it first. There's still plenty more land to explore where there could be more horses.

oh and I will likely veto the settler in tenoch and get a granary instead; I always get a granary before the first settler on a low food start, and on monarch level (I usually play on emperor or deity) there is even more reason to do so because of the extra content citizen.

Sirp: that's all in changes (IIRC).... I said see k2 thread above... :lol: (in the 1st post, before I now edited it)

btw, the HP aren't insane, I wanted a stronger punsh for modern units adn for elites - and double +1 for elites is the best I could do. 2,3,4,6 would make elites too strong! The thinking was a catapult in the city doesn't fully negate the advantage an elite troop has - thus more than 1 HP difference for elites from vets

killer: yeah sorry I posted before you listed all the changes. Personally, I almost always play the game with the default rules, but very well; we shall play with your rules and I'll see if I like them :-)

btw you still didn't mention what graphics mod you're using! :-)

oh, snoopys mod I think. always forget the name... :blush:

I am so used to the mod now I never mention it anymore :lol: the entire DS and K sries are based on it......... I'll have to check on naval movements, they are upped a little, too I think.... gimme a sec (am at work and can't start games and so on right now as long as my boss is in the room.....)

Yep, ship moves are changed, too ( :blush: ). I am using too many different mods atm, trying out too much stuff...

all moves are doubled, carriers have two more moves now than transports and battleships and so on (realism question here).

Galley 6
Caravel 6
Frigate 8
Galleon 8
Ironclad 8
Transport 10
Carrier 12
normal sub 9
Nuke Sub 10
Destroyer 10
Aegis Cruiser 10
Man-o-War 8


I hope you do not feel forced to play with this now :blush:...... this is the mod that got me the infamous attacks....

This should be a interesting game, I usually play by standard rules as well.
I agree with you, the carrier is a bit too fast.

Well modern carriers can outrun any other ship afaik..... i once saw a TV thing about the Washington, and they had those easy to read instruments. Current spped was shown as a dugutal readout (showed 32 knots!!!) and also as filling in a triangle. It was about half full!!!!!

AFAIK no other ship can go that fast, and Carriers CAN go faster but hardly ever will... So I wouldn't leave a Carrier unprotected, but if the escorts are fought down it should be able to run like hell.....

Killer: it's ok :) unless there's a bug in the game, I couldn't imagine that the changes would affect diplomacy etc. The main problem I could see with them is a fear of the AI not being able to handle them properly and thus being at a disadvantage. Anyhow, I am happy to play with them. I might even like them, we'll see :)

Others can make up their own minds. I'll be doing my turns real soon now.

Sirp: as far as I and all other users have seen it the AI uses them just fine :D

ok I wasn't sure how many turns we're meant to go for...so I decided to go for the upper limit and picked 20 :)

I think we should have 10-20 turns, at the player's discretion. Maybe 20 turns in the ancient age; slow to 15 in the medieval age, and then 10 once we hit the industrial age (although at monarch level, I hope to have this one over before that even eventuates :) at the player's discretion, of course.

PRETURN - veto settler in favour of a granary.

3050BC (1) - jag near France rests, Jag by Rome moves out of Roman territory and explores west

3000BC (2) - ok, there is an abudant source (4 lots) of gems to our south-west; but in the middle of jungle. Gee it takes a long time for an elite warrior to recover with this mod.

2950BC (3) - I flirt with sending the jag on exploring without recovering fully, but decide he should be at full strength. Tenochtitlan grows to size 3. The second mine near tenoch is completed.

2900BC (4) - I send the elite jag exploring even though he's 1 hp short of being fully healed.

2850BC (5) - Dark red borders sighted in the far south. This river near France is pretty long; we should be able to sieze at least some of it before they do. We can make contact with the Japanese. We have a huge lead in technology, and no-one has a second city yet.

2800BC (6) - Our jag near japan enters a village and is surrounded by evil barbarians. He's on mountains though, should survive. Road complete near tenochtitlan.

2750BC (7) - the jag defends against the barbarians and is now elite. Course that means a period of convalescence. Another goody hut sighted near Rome.

2710BC (8) - the French found the town of Orleans, west of Paris, in the fertile region. I meet with the Japanese, and they have two cities now as well; as do the Romans. Now the Japanese have a worker to sell. We don't have enough money to buy it, but we have techs. I decide to sell him warrior code for the worker and 10 gold. Warrior code because it's the cheapest tech everyone else has but he doesn't. The extra worker will help nicely, and really slow the Japanese down.

2670BC (9) - the new worker is now helping build mines near tenoch. Spices sighted just outside of the Japanese border.

2630BC (10) - Tenoch has finished building the granary, and I set it to building a settler.

2590BC (11) - We get maps from a village to the east, which shows some land on the other side of a sea gap. The land is on the same continent as us, but on the other side of the French. It contains at least 3 sources of spice.

2550BC (12) - Brown borders sighted near Japan. English maybe?

2510BC (13) - Tenoch grows to size 4; turn luxury slider up to avoid disorder. Mine near tenochtitlan is finished. We contact the English, who are behind us Masonry, The Wheel, Warrior Code, and Ceremonial Burial. They do have three cities to our one.

2470BC (14) - More exploring, sending Jag to patrol region south-west of the french, ready to plant a city there.

2430BC (15) - Settler complete. Set to build a jag then will build another settler. Settler is sent to build city, with tenoch's jag as escort. We are paying 2 gold unit costs until this city is founded; luxuries taken down, but so is research.

2390BC (16) - continue moving to city location

2350BC (17) - Jag in tenoch complete; set to building a settler. Ugh, we spot a barb encampment on a mountain a few squares away from our planned city site. Jag will stay back for defensive purposes, until the city is founded, then attack.

2310BC (18) - Settler one move away from second city location.

2270BC (19) - Settler on city location. Barb encampment in the south reached before the english could get to it; 25 gold. Science turned back up. Workers move to build a road to the new city.

2230BC (20) - The Aztec people recognize the prosperity of the Killer-Sirp dynasty, and our brilliant strategies to protect against surprise attacks so much that they offer to extend our palace! Our second city is founded. We attack the barb encampment and win, just; promote to veteran.

The french now have 3 cities, as well as the English. The Japanese and the Romans still now only have two. Horses seem to be a little rare; I found no more sources of them. We now have a good basis in tenochtitlan for building more settlers, and I suggest we make an aggressive push for the Orleans area.

Sirp: nice play :D good call on the Granary, too.

Here is the screenshot with a primitive dotmap. The five dots show crucial city sites. They are all important, and I'm not sure how to best prioritise them. I would say that the blue and purple dots are the two most important, the blue dot gets us horses, and the purple dot is in a valuable strategic location to deny French expansion, as well as being on damn fertile land, of course.

The red and green dots are also important, being next to resources. One could argue that Teotihuacan should have been in range of the gems, but I wanted it in range of the game and near the capital. The green dot is near to Teotihuacan as to not waste an enriched grassland, and so it has access to fresh water. The black dot (a bit hard to see, just south and west a little of the purple one), is a further city site that is lower priority but still good. There's lots of jungle for long-term expansion, of course.

The game forest near Teotihuacan should be cut down, to produce grassland which should be irrigated. This will make Teotihuacan into a settler/worker factory that doesn't need a granary for a while, if at all. Production in Teothuican could be changed, since the jag to its south could be moved back as its garrison.

be carefull cutting the forest, I modded them up (see above!)

I toally agree on all the dots, also like Teoti where it is :D expansion is more important than gems right now.

Killer: I don't see any modification to forest listed. Please let us know what the forest stats are now, and please don't tell me they are good enough so that we will be sending workers around planting forests all game long :)

though...that'd be good for a Lord of the Rings mod or something though, if you could have different civs treating terrain differently. The elves would be much more productive in forest than in grassland, and would spend the game planting forests everywhere :) the dwarves would be much more productive in mountains than anyone else, but um....they wouldn't be able to build mountains of course :)

So William, you're up!

oh, doesn't it say resources modded up????

wait one....

killer: it says resources modded up, forests are not a resource. Please let us know the changes to forests, as well as all resources :)

honestly though killer, I think bonus resources are already important enough to fight over. Increasing their strength just makes it even more frustrating if you are in a resource-sparse area, and makes the importance of starting near good resources even more crucial. Anyone who starts next to cattle or wheat already has enough of an advantage without increasing it!

OK game has a food bonus of 3 now.
Gold commerce +5
Wheat food +3
Cattle food +3 prod +1
Fish food +3 commerce +1
Whales food +2 prod +1 commerce +3
Gems +0+1+4
Silks +0+0+4
Ivory +0+0+3
Spices +0+0+3
Incense +0+0+2 (must have forgotten to up that one)
Dyes +0+0+2
Furs +0+1+2
Wines +1+0+2
Uraniuzm +0+1+1
Aluminium (Aluminum to Illiterate Americans ;)) +0+2+1
Rubber +0+0+3
Oil +0+0+2
Coal +0+3+1
Saltpeter +0+1+1
Iron +0+2+0
Horses +0+1+1

Sirp: i find that aside from the start, the AI often plant cities so the res are in unused spaces in between. Since I modded them up, the AI places cities a lot better - and is a lot mroe competitive about good spots. Just a feeling, can't be prooved, but tiu looks a lot better now how they go about it.

Also, a bonus of 1 so often is negated in despotism that it gets really frustrating, becasue stupid cover-it-all placing is often more effective than smart placing....

Killer: ok thanks for posting that, but have you changed the stats for forests? Because if you haven't my advice to cut the forest still stands, with game having a bonus of 3, my advice stands even more so; once converted to grassland and irrigated, that will be giving off 5 food per turn under despotism! Remember, game does not disappear when you cut down the forest it's on; it just stays on the resulting grassland or plains, thus early in the game you should almost always cut down gamed forests, to make a bonus food resource. Bonus food resources are incredibly valuable early on, and are even more so now that getting to monarchy/republic will take longer!

btw, it gets very challenging if you start res-poor, but since I tend to play with many civs, it usually hits me or doesn't matter since the weak civ isn't in early contact with me.

Killer: yes that's what I was thinking, and we are fairly resource poor! The game is the only decent bonus resource near us! :-/

ohhh btw, good call on the aluminium thing, and Americans who can't spell :)

Killer....interesting Mod. This is the first time I will have played on non-standard rules, so it should be interesting. I have a couple questions:

- Healing: do units still only heal one per turn? If so, the add'l hitpoints practically doubles the value of SunTsu's AoW.

- What was the AI trade rate for Monarchy before your mod (are the more or less aggresive now)?

- Irrigate hills?? More of a comment than a question...not as big a fan of this one. Does the AI use it?

- Age bonus: age of unit or age that unit type applies to?? Does this mean elite tank gets 15hp...or a 5,000 year old Spearman gets 15hp?

- Do the units that you added bombard to give bombard damage at the same level as the artillery unit of that age (cannon, art., etc.)? I would imagine it is less, but wanted to verify.

Thanks.

actually, just a thought, wrt the unit bombardment, I would imagine the AI does *not* use this effectively, or even at all, since the AI is very bad at using artillery.

Just came back, I've picked up the game, should be playing in a bit.
:)
This mod is interesting, a lot of resourses' bonus and long battles.

Something just came up, I'll probably play tomorrow, but no worries.

hey killer, I got surprised attacked in a game again today. This was on deity. I was going pretty well, building up an economy, but naturally my military was pitiful. I violated my own rule about not building near other civ's cities a little though. The Japanese decided they would surprise attack me. Warriors don't fight well against cavalry :-/

I was slaughtered, my second city was razed to the ground on the second turn of the war, my capital was captured on the third, and my entire mainland was overrun in just five turns.

Ahhh well, I'd have done the same thing to them. But, I did get the English and Egyptians in on my side, not that it helped much :-/

Sirp: sorry for you :(

SirJethro: healing: normal. in stpes of 3 (and more later when age bonus comes), but elites take 1 turn longer due to extra HP I think.

original AI-AI is 140!

Irrigate hills: AI uses this to get water to otherwise cut-off places, as I intended.....

Age bonus: modern units get +1 HP, +2HP and sdo on. So, elite Cav has more HP than elite Spearman...

bombard: less IIRC.

Sirp: about bombartding: the AI makes no difference, but I had to up bombard a little because it will give a chance of hitting two times if doubles....

OK, here's the game after my 20turns to end the long wait, sorry I took quite some time.

But......

How do I Attach a file?????:confused: :confused: :confused:

And how do I post a picture???:confused: :confused: :confused:
It asks for a Internet address, but the picture is not on the Internet.:confused:

william: if you are using ie, you should be able to put "browse" and it will open a file dialog and you find the file and attach it. If you still can't do, it email the file to me, - dave@whitevine.com and I will post it for you.

browse

william: umm...I didn't mean you type browse, I meant there should be a button next to the file entry which says "browse". You press it and it will open a file dialog. You pick the file you want to attach. hmm...maybe you better email the file to me :)

william: type: [*img]http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/filename.jpg[*/img] without the *s in your post. Upload the pic via the easy Upload feature (click the link at the bottom right of the page, then follow instructions, clcik browse and so on).

for the file, simply upload it, too, as a zip file(!) (so zip it first), then type

htt*p://ww*w.civfanatics.net/uploads/filenam.zip
again without the *s
be carefull, the server is case sensitive (so S is not the same as s!!!)

well, to be practical about it, William, send me the file; I will upload it to get things moving quick, then you can practice uploading it yourself for next time you need to do it.

What is ie? and I can't find a button that says browse and don't know where to put it.

I have emailed it to you though, with the picture, thanks for putting it up.

Here's the game report:
2190BC (1): SW Jag moves S, Babs sighted. SE Jag moves East, onto Ivory forest outside

England. E Jag moves to forest near france (was on purple spot). Teoti Jag skips turn. 2

workers starts to build the great Teno-Teoti road.

2150BC (2): SE Jag moves north. SW Jag prepares to fight Babs. E Jag fortifies in the

forest. Teoti Jag fortifies. Settler produced in Teno, ordered to move to the purple dot,

worker ordered in Teno.

2110BC (3): SW Jag fights Babs to the east, heavy damage taken, but wins the fight. SE Jag

moves north. Mysticism research finished, Iron Working is the next objective(38turns).

2070BC (4): Worker produced in Teno, Jag produced in Teoti, Settler ordered for Teno, and

barracks for Teoti. SW Jag fortifies to heal. New jag fortifies in Teoti city. The Jag near

Teoti goes out to explore (from now he's J3).

2030BC (5): SE Jag near veii told to get off Roman land, Ceasear is annoyed!! I give them 5

gold and says sorry, he's still Annoyed(some people....). SE Jag moves out(from now he's

J1). Science reasearch speeded up(to 90%), we'll have iron in 23 turns, at -2gpt. SW Jag on

half health moves east (from now he's J2), more Englishes sighted!!

1990BC (6) : J1 now NW of Veii. J2 sights Nottigham with spearman.

1950BC (7) : J3 moves S, sights Babs on mountain to SW! J1 sights wine 6 squares NE of Rome.

1910BC (8) : J2 fortified near Nottigham to heal. J3 attacks Babs and wins. J1 tells us

there's only one way to France, through the semi-choke-point of Orleans.

1870BC (9) : Barracks in Teoti finished, Teno is pop 2 growth in 4turns. Teoti is pop2

growth in 8turns. Cutting down of the game forest begins, should finish in 20turns.

Tlatelolco built on the purple spot, renamed to TlateWill, Settler ordered, Jag fortifies

there. J3 skips turn to heal. Iron is now in 12turns -1gpt.

1830BC (10) : Antium built by Rome by a river, 2 squares to wine. Teno-Teoti road finishes!

J2 moves west sights Bab warrior 2 squares south.

1790BC (11) : Teoti produces Jag, who's told to move to the blue spot (horse), should be

there in 6 turns. J1 moves west. J3 moves south. J2 moves south then SE, sights Bab hut.

1750 (12) : J2 kills Bab then takes the hut, only 3 HPs lost! J1 moves west, sights Bab hut

in jungle, fights and dies!!

1725 (13) : Jag produced in Teoti, settler produced in Teno, Jag told to move to Black dot.

Settler to blue dot (horse).

1700BC (14) : Spearman in Edo sighted, by J2. J3 moves to near Jap borders.

1675BC (16) : Jag produced in Teoti, told to guard the Gem. Spearman sighted in Tokyo.

1650 (17) : Jag fortifies on blue dot. J2 and J3 explores Japan.

1600BC (18) : English starts on Colosus!! J3 moves East, j2 explores Japan. Jag fortifies on

the Gem. Gets Writing and Iron Working for Pottory and Contact with Rome from the French.

1575 (19) : Builds embassy in London(40Gold), Paris(31g), and Rome(30g).
Gets ROP with England and France, for contacts.

1550BC (20) : Boring.

Looks like you guys are still working on posting the file. I'll check again tomorrow morning and if its here should have time then to play my turn.

William, I'm sorry but I didn't get your email. Did you mail it to dave@whitevine.com ?

ie is "internet explorer", by far the most popular web browser, so it's probably what you're using. When you go to "post reply" (you can't use the quick reply) it should have an "Attach file" option where you can type the path to your file, but there should also be a "browse" button which you can click on to bring up a dialog that lets you choose the file.

Here is the file!

Thank you for all your patience!

ok, glad you worked it out William :)

SirJethro: Whenever you're ready! :)

Sirp, I did e-mail you, with the file and a screenshot; but it's all right now, I've get the save up here :). The picture should follow soon :).

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/KS1.2.jpg

Here you go. I haven't figured out the screenie yet.

1525 - French settler spotted. Heading for our wine site, I think. Teo: settler/spearman. French building Pyramids. Setter sent to Green dot. Sent some JWs down south towards home.
1500 - zzz
1475 - Japan demands Masonry. Told to stuff it....shrinks away. Teno: settler/barracks. Sent settler west from Teno to settle near iron source. Should be good production city near cap. Tlateolco (Temple) founded on horse. English building Pyramids. Our people want FP.
1450 - Texcoco (Temple) founded near Gems.
1425 - Barbs near Texcoco. Road to Tlate complete.
1400 - Tlaxcala (Barracks) founded.
1375 - Dead Barbs. Teo: spearman/settler. Treasury running low, slowing research.
1350 - Horse-Barb near Tlaxcala...moving JW
1325 - Teno: Barracks/Spearman.
1300 - Dead barb. Green grass on palace lawn. Looking for barb camp.
1275 - Found camp.
1250 - zzz
1225 - Teno: spearman/settler. Teo: settler/temple. Tlax: Barracks/Spearman. Unsuccessful at barb camp...JW retreated. Sending another.
1200 - zzz
1175 - Romans building Pyramids. Building road to gems.
1150 - zzz
1125 - zzz
1100 - Barb camp destroyed. Teno: settler/settler. Sent just SW of Teno...good production. Calix (worker) founded (black dot).
1075 - Tlatewill: settler/settler. Sent towards grouping of Gems (many workers are foreseen). Texcoco: temple/barracks.
1050 - ROP England..expires. ROP France...expires. They want to extend. I'll let the next guy decide. England had CoLaws, France has Philosophy. Tlax: Spear/spear.

So, this'd mean that you're up, and I'm on deck, right killer?

hmm...when it was my turn we were 3-4 techs or more ahead of every other civ, how'd they get to tech parity all of a sudden??

It is unfortunate that the French beat us to those wines. Now we're only going to have one type of luxury (gems). Not good. It's a bit cramped, so once we get our economy going strong I think we're going to have to take out at least one of these other Civilizations. My proposal would be France. They have lots of land, nice land, good resources, and they're wimps.

If people demand gold or an already-shopped technology, I say generally give it to them. They rarely ask for anything substantial, so it's better just to make peace with them. Remember to mark a big red cross against their name for when we are deciding who to attack though :)

The new tech costs make a big difference on strategy. When I started my turn I think there were 30-something turns left on our tech and we were at 90% research! In that situation in my own games I would have set tech to minimum, picked it up under the 40 turn cap and saved some dough in the meantime to buy other techs.

However, when I tried putting the slider down here, I had forgotten about the 50-turn minimum, and I didn't feel comfortable waiting that long for one tech.

The fact that we don't have any luxuries within the borders of our productive cities is hurting us on tech. We don't have a lot of high-gold tiles.

SirJethro: yup it does; basically it makes going at minimum rate prohibitive I think. We should be able to take a tech lead, push for it; remember that researching in 10-20 turns is now respectable. There is also alot longer time before units become obsolete.

btw, I suggest that we plan for an attack on France, once we're gotten a decent little economy going. What do other people think? We'll get everyone else on our side against them too. Any comments on this plan?

Sirp: France - why not? :D

France- here we come!

ok cool, it's agreed.

So killer! You do realize it's your go, right? :)

Oops..... sorry :blush: :D

could someone email me the game? or upload it on the file server? i can't DL attachments for whatever reason... :(

or simply skip me.....

killer: gee...I hate that...feels like a game of chess when you both think it's the other guy's move and are thinking "hmm...he's taking a really long time to move!!!"

I'll happily email it to you but umm...I'm afraid I forget your email address so could you post it here please?

hey actually killer, I can play now, so since I'm after you anyway we'll just switch turns this go. I'll play now, and when I see you post your email address I'll send you the game after I've played it...

ok here's my report, Killer I am searching for your email address so I can send you the game, but I've also attached it here.

preturn - micromanage the slider to give us some extra gold. Barracks in Texcoco vetoed in favor of a worker. We only have 2 workers at the moment and 7 cities, with 2 more on the way! That's an insanely poor ratio. Veto spearman in Tlaxcala in favor of a granary. Our military production simply doesn't have to be high at all; trust me :)

Rome threatens us for Mysticism. I give it to him. Makes him polite, and it's not a really vital tech.

1025BC (1) - start irrigating in the north-east. Gee we really do need LOTS more workers!

1000BC (2) - gems roaded up. Science slider micromanaged. I'm not sure where this settler is meant to go, but I'm going to put him near pompeii, to snatch the iron. 2 squares away. Would be nice to get the fresh water, but that would require being 1 square away, and that's against my rules of being nice; I think the Romans would be very inclined to attack if we did that.

975BC (3) - Teotihuacan finishes temple, I set it to build a worker. I just noticed that one of the settlers is on goto. Who did that?

950BC (4) - Tenochtitlan builds a settler. Now I set it to building a horseman. Why? We want it to get some population in it before we build another settler, and if we want to build military, it is the city to do it in. We complete mapmaking. Texcoco completes worker; we'll have another one of those please.

925BC (5) - We trade map making to the english for code of laws, world map and 7 gold. We then trade code of laws, map making, world map and 20 gold to the french for world map and philosophy. None of the other Civilizations have anything to trade for our superior technology, but I do give Mysticism to the Japanese as a gift. They are the only ones who don't like us, and it's a backwards tech anyway.

900BC (6) - Teotihuacan finishes worker, another one of them please! Tlateloco finishes temple, this will get iron within range soon. We need workers in that region, badly, so that's what I order up next. Settler in position to build city getting iron off pompeii.

875BC (7) - oh gee, I forgot that you can't found cities on desert in this mod...move him one square south west.

850BC (8) - Calixtlahuaca builds a worker. I order another one. I change TlateWill from a settler to a temple, we are filling out with cities at the moment, but need culture to compete with Orleans. Found Xochilco and there is a Roman warrior-settler pair right next to it. Undefended at the moment, building jag. Irrigation complete next to Teotihuacan. This will be a worker factory.

825BC (9) - Texcoco builds a worker, I order a granary. Tlacopan founded on the west coast. Building a worker in it; this region needs LOTS of work done on it. At the end of the turn, the Roman settler-warrior pair head south; apparently we've settled out enough of this region to make them disinterested. Teotihuacan builds another worker. I decide we should let it grow a bit, build a granary and then it can be an every-other-turn worker factory. Granary ordered. The egyptians complete the pyramids in Thebes.

800BC (10) - we are losing too much money, 4 gpt with just 19 gold in our treasury, so I take the science slider down and we are balanced.

775BC (11) - everyone cascades to the Oracle. Frankly, they can have their oracle. Ancient age wonders aren't that great, with the exception of the pyramids. I prefer to just focus on economic growth, several hundred shields early on invested in extra settlers, workers and improvements makes a huge difference. I whip the temple in TlateWill, at the expense of one citizen. We want our culture getting there asap, and we want to move on to building workers in the region.

750BC (12) - Tenochtitlan builds a horseman, I am not sure whether to build another horseman, or a temple, I choose the temple. TlateWill is set to building a worker after completing its temple

730BC (13) - Atz-something-or-another is founded over to the west, a fishing village in the middle of the jungle. Whales in range upon expansion. I set it to build a galley, we really need one. Tlatelolco completes worker. Set to build a granary.

710BC (14) - England completes the Colossus. Hmm...the AIs made it to mathematics before us. Damn.

690BC (15) - keep workers working. hmm...our iron city near Rome is going to have a bit of cultural pressure against it. Hope it doesn't flip. We discover mathematics. Bleah. We go for currency next. The AIs usually go for construction first, so we might be able to get currency and trade for construction.

670BC (16) - ok, we're hooking up two sources of iron at once now. Tenoch builds its temple, I set it to building a settler to fill out the remaining gaps. English city of London completes the Oracle.

650BC (17) - blah

630BC (18) - Jag complete in Roman Iron City. Set to building a temple. Will probably whip it.

610BC (19) - one source of iron hooked up. The french have discovered literature. They will trade it for iron and horses. If Joanie didn't have a big red bullseye on the middle of her head, we might consider it. As it is, sorry, but no. We can afford to wait on that one. Hmm...the Romans seem to want to come through our territory to settle somewhere...

590BC (20) - I trade world map with france for our world map and 26 gold (umm...all we have) meaning, I leave us broke. ahh well...happens.

Killer: The game has now been emailed to you.

Sirp: thanx!

email will go into signature :blush:

good idea on switching! And you got me with that chess thing ;)

preturn: looking at the map, I see a nice little gap in our cities that can be very well used to pressure us culturally - make a note to found a city there as soon as we have a settler over. Slider 10% down so we get +2 Gold - need some incase some cities shrink due to diseases or so....
Another city can go into the Tenoch-Teoti-Calix.. triangle once we have a Courthouse in the two outlying cities.

(1) 570 BC - yes, the Romans want to settle into the gap in our territory..... Luckily, we get a settler in the capital (Horseman ordered). Use Workers and Horseman to deflect Roman settler.

(2) 550 BC - Heliopolis completes the Lighthouse. The settler turns towards Teoti, thus we will get to the spot first :D
Not hooking up third iron near Calixtlahuaca, but mining all irons (what isn't hooked can't be extorted :D) Mining will turn cities with iron into
production powerhouses. TlateWill mivromanaged to speed up Worker, then, Barrakcs and Horsies can follow ;)

(3) 530 BC - Granay finished in Teotiuhacan, Spearman ordered (need military police there), then will follow that with Woker and Horsemen - Joan is going to have a bad hair day :D If we are fast they won't even have Horses hooked up when we strike :D
Diplo-check: get Territory Map and 5 Gold for World Map from England, World and 7 from Rome, Map from France, gift of WM makes Japan polite :D

(4) 510 BC - nothing.

(5) 490 BC - settler in place. Cannot avoid slight gaps, but room not sufficient for two cities.TlateWill starts Barracks, some roading there to increase commerce.

(6) 470 BC - another Spear/settler combo shows up near Xochi.. Tzintzunzen founded, JagWAr ordered.
liz has the Republic, will not trade and is annoyed. Even present of WM doesn't help :(

(7) 450 BC - Roman settler turns back.

(8) 430 BC - Granary in Texcoco and Tlaxcala. Texcoco set to Barracks, Tlaxcala Temple. I do not know ehre the second Roman settler is headed, the first is withdrawing but No. 2 keep coming...
Galley built, another ordered. Temple rushed in Xochi (would take 20 turns to build). We have road connection to Neapolis, won't be long unitl we can deal with Rome (which we should before their UU comes online and they start looking for targets).

My finest hour - I can't believe the luck i had!!!!

(9) 410 BC - Japan wants Math and Map for Map, tell them no, get 1 gold for Map. Xochi builds the Temple, ordered to Courthouse. Tlacopan Worker, ordered Temple. Izumo shows on a different continent - but Japan can't trade any contacts. Decide to suicide the Galley, maybe we can get a coup here :D
YES!!!! Sight Zulu town!!!!! Tehy give us contact with the Egyptians and 5 Gold and their World Map for Contact with both Japan and France.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/mapks1.jpg

What to do... contact with the Iroquese - if our Galley survives, we can get it without trade very soon since Oil Springs is only 1 turns move away.

I know I could have held back on trading contact to speed up our and only our science, but since the Japs have a city over there i didn't think it wise, sell while you have something to sell is the word.....

Egypt is way ahead in science, they have literature, Polytheism and The Republic. Whatever i offer, they want to sell us Contact with the Iroquese. I give them WM for that and all 9 Gold they have.
I then sell them three contacs (not France) for Polythesism after checking that France gives us Literature and WM and 110 Gold (!) for contact with Egypt and the Iroquese. Sadly, no deal was possible giving us Republic :(
All three contacts left gets us Territory Map and all their gold (179) from the Iroquese.
I collect another 2 Gold+Map from Rome for contact with the Zulu and Map+30 Gold from England (she is still angry, as is Cleo). Polytheism gets us 111 Gold (all) from France and 50 from England (out of 53).

Results: France is broke (they even offered wines and 60 Gold for Poly, didn't take it but money instead because i didn't want a 20 turn deal).
Engalnd is broke, and still angry, Republic ahead but Literature behind.
Everyone else is broke, too, and most are a few tech behind. Egypt will be a real problem though.

90% gets us Currency in 7 at -10 (we haev 513 Gold atm). i think we shoudl spend it asap so it can't be extorted out of us. 100% is still 7 turns.

(10) 390 BC - Jag Warrior in Tzintzunzen, Granary ordered. 2 Horsemen compelted, one more ordered, Teoti changed to worker (unhappiness).
Galley has survived, will now try to cover as much map as possible to go map broker.

(11) 370 BC - the Romans run around as if they had a plan. Don't like that. Nice little island discovered south of main Zulu/Egypt/iroquese one - settler ordered in Teotich after Worker completed.

(12) 350 BC - Orleans shifts border towards us - need to attack soon :mad:

(13) 330 BC - Barb Galley attacks us and dies. English start Great Library.

(14) 310 BC - buy worker from England for WM and 12 Gold - to make her happy. She has a settler near Calix... Give WM to Japan, still annoyed. France already has Construction and 57 Gold in the bank - how do they do that? The Iroquese give 19 Gold for the map.... Rom also has Construction.

(15) 290 BC - Rome starts both Great Library and Great Wall. Horsemen stockpiled in TlateWill. Micromanage slider. French have Horses.

(16) 270 BC - f-ing French complete Great Library, Egyptians cascade to get Great Wall. France deals us Construction and 110 Gold and Map for Currency, they even offered two luxuries. Sorry, but there's no better target atm..... The WEnglish give us Ivory, 30 Gold and Map for Currency, are still Construction behind. Caesar gives Wolrd map and 30 Gold - all othrs offer ****. Prepare to strike Tours (Wines) next turn.

(17) 250 BC - Tlaxcala Temple-Worker, Tenoich Horseman-Horseman, TlateWill Barracks-JW (for defence). Workers moved into cities. Declare war on France, then enter their lands.

(18) 230 BC - one retreat, no losses gives us Tours, two Spears one Archer killed, two Workers captured. Move towards Orleans. Japan gets our second Gems and Currency for Spices to keep them out of the war.

(19) 210 BC - the one resistor in Tours gives up :D Three hurt Horsemen moved from there to Tlatewill to heal in Barracks (two where at 1 HP and would have taken three turns to heal). Settler boards ship.
Trade Map all around and get some gold.

(20) 190 BC - still no serious French troops in view. 6 Horsemen in TlateWill will be full strength next turn, 1 will need to rest to heal (killed a French Warrior that came over). Spearman ordered in Tlateloco becasue French Warrior is approaching.

I would recommend moving the Horsemen onto the forest, then get Orleans the nex turn. Do not quit if possible - Paris has Great Library. Monarchy is 11 away at 100%.

The Galley has crossed over to near Izumo, can now run south. The corssing can be done without risk (6 moves - remember!) as indicated:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/crossing.jpg

I'd stay away from the other big island, instead try to cover the small one completely with maybe three cities as indicated.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/smallisland.jpg

here's the game: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/KS1-190BC.zip

have fun!

changed the image a littel, now the three cities will cover the entire island without overlap excepzt fot the tundra square with the wood on it with 1 border expansion.

ok, great set of turns Killer. I had forgotten that galleys can now move so fast.

William, you're up now!

Sirp
Killer <-- just played
William <-- up now
SirJethro <-- on deck

I'm just going to pick up the game.

I've only played 15 turns, the war with France is going well generally, but we are loosing too many units, so I've decided to hand it over to SirJethro.;)

Here is the save, the report is coming soon.

Here is the save:

William528: I don't see the save. You can email it to me if you want, and I'll post it, or you can work out how to post it yourself :)

my email address is dave@whitevine.com

-Sirp.

Killler....nice turn. Guys....please skip me when I come up. I have family staying at my house this week.

IMO, if we are planning on truely hitting the french hard here, go ahead and set science slider to 0%. As soon as we take their shiny new Great Library, we'll catch any ground we lose in the meantime.

well Sirp, you again!

Here is my report:

Preturn: Established Embassy in Egytp and Iroquios. There's 5 spearman in each!! and Thebes has

17spt, Salamance has 13spt.

170BC (1): Spearman produced in Tlatelolco. Courthouse ordered. Horsemen moves into France.

150BC (2): Rome demands gold I dont give it to them, they become anoyed. Battle of Orlean the

city was taken easily with one horseman. speaman from tlatlocoswas killed by French horsemen! We

have our revenge, and get an elite horseman. Settler lands on the northern dot.

130BC (3): French requests to talk, I refuses to. Then Joan sends horseman, who's killed by our

vet(now elite) horseman:). Malinalco founded on the north of the island. Reinforcements are on

the way from Teno and Teoti. 6 Horsemen and on Jag sorrounds Paris, ready to attack, 2 heavily

injured horsemen rests in Orleans.

110BC (4): England demands tribute of 39 gold, I gives them what they want to keep them happy.

Battle of Paris begins!! We takes heavy causualty (2 horsemen killed, 2 retreats, 2 wins but

heavily damaged). Kills 4 enemy Spearmen and 1 Warroir. We takes Paris and the GLibrary, which

gives us "Republic". There's 3 resistors.

90BC (5): The revolution begins then ends, We are now a Republic. We get embassy in Japan and

signs a ROP.

70BC (6): Our army rests outside Paris, starvation in Paris.

50BC (7): 2 Horsemen comes from Teno and Teoti, we begins on the Hanging Gardens.

30BC (8): Battle of Dijon: after a long fight we enters the town, then my army razed it without

my permition.

10BC (9): French warroir kills my horseman!! I get my revenge and an elite. Kills 2 more Archers

south of Paris.

10AD (10): More horsemen produced.

30AD (11): --------------------------------------------------------

50AD (12): Brits build Brighton where Dijon was. 7 divisions mass near Lyons, I want the other

horse.

70AD (13): Battle of Lyons: We take Lyons with 2 injuries and no loss. Kills 2 Spearmen.

90AD (14): Battle of Grenoble: 1 horseman lost, 2 injuries, kills 2 Spearmen. There's a archer

near by, my Jag kills it.

110 (15): 7 divisions ready to attack Marseilles. We get Feudalism, Monotheism in 11 turns. We

fet ROP with Egypt, Cloe's Polite again. Civil disorder in Teno, quite bad; I'll leave it to Sirp. Good luck with the battle of Marseilles!

The attachment is on page 4. you should be able to see it, it's the second last post.

hey, nice work!

William: yeah, sorry, it is too; I will be doing my turn in due course.

btw guys I didn't actually mean to attack the French so soon! But oh well, we seem to be doing well :)

Sirp: nor did I, but either now or spoil the gain from the Library..... I was surprised they got i..... and the boost of the contact selling was sufficient to make the war viable.

Our score is quite low, I say we should take Marseilles then sign a peace treaty, for gold and Chanty so we can produce more settlers to fill the island and the empty spaces in France, and also concentrate on the wonders' race.

Or we can change to Monarchy and produce more troops, conquer the whole of France, then go for Rome with our Knights.....

I haven't played many Monarch games, so........

BTW, the I can't find Sirp's website(the one in your signiture); is the address right?

William: personally I don't care about score. I only care about winning or losing. I have played many games, and I don't think I have ever played a game where I cared about score. I see it as if you're playing soccer and you are up and you decide you want to win 10-0 instead of 5-0. I don't know about you, but I find that boring; to me, winning is winning and losing is losing.

Anyhow, I'm playing now :)

Also you were right about my website. I don't know what I was thinking when I typed that url in. Thanks for letting me know, it's fixed now.

Pre-turn (110AD) - Science turned off; we have the GL now. Sigh, tenochtitlan in civil disorder. I veto Sun Tzu's in favor of a marketplace. Also set marketplace in Teotihuacan. Tzintzun is building a horseman when it doesn't have a barracks, so I change it to barracks.

130AD (1) - Defending spearman loses to french archer. We lose our supply of ivory. Deal ran out I guess. We trade gems and wines to the English for more ivory. They have monotheism, but their asking price is waaaay too high, so we'll wait on that. Tenoch builds marketplace, and is now set to build Sun Tzu's Art of War. We attack Marseilles, and capture it without loss (only retreats). Temple rushed in Paris, and city being starved; we have to minimize the chance of a culture flip.

150AD (2) - move troops around, preparing for an attack on Chartres next.

170AD (3) - still massing for attack on Chartres.

190AD (4) - Teotihuacan builds marketplace; set it to produce a horseman. Calix set to build a marketplace. We don't want to "waste" our golden age just on military units! We capture Chartres without loss. Looking to attack Rheims (French capital) next.

210AD (5) - Still assembling attack force to take Rheims. Gee from just building a few marketplaces, our surplus has soared from ~89gpt, to 149gpt! Now before we start researching again, we want lots of libraries.

230AD (6) - Paris' border expands. Now there is no cultural pressure on it. One more turn and it will be down to size 1. The city of Tula (at last, a short city name!) just before the English settler gets there.

250AD (7) - Teotuhican builds a horseman. I think our military is big enough for the moment, with 17 horsemen, I set it to build a library. We attack Rheims, and lose two veteran horsemen to spearmen who were down to just 1 left. But then we capture the city. And hmm...this cuts our trade route with the English. We get a message saying we lost our source of ivories. Hmm...I thought you couldn't have trade routes through enemy territory? Or is it only if you're both at war with them?? Anyhow, we don't have a connected harbor yet! I rush one in another one of our cities.

260AD (8) - blah

270AD (9) - Also switch Texcoco to building a library after it completes another horseman. Egypt completes hanging gardens. I talk to the English, who now want 5gpt plus two luxuries for their ivory. I grudgingly agree. After we lose two horsemen auto-razing Rouen, Joanie is willing to give us both her remaining cities in exchange for peace. I decide to agree. We'll wait out the 20 turns, and then just take her out I think.

280AD (10) - Our analysts are claiming that our "golden age" has ended. Who are these "analysts" who would dare to deprecate the power of the mighty Aztec empire, anyway?

290AD (11) - I notice that there is some unsettled land on the other continent that has sources of silks, I quickly build a settler to try and secure this land. Start building the Forbidden Palace in Orleans; due in 50 turns. Settler rushed in Malinalco (our city on the island).

300AD (12) - We get monotheism and engineering from the Great Library. We could research chivalry at 10 turns, with a balanced budget, but I think we'll just keep hauling in the cash. We have 13 horsemen who could immediately translate into 13 knights with the kinda cash we're going to have. Considering Rome doesn't have a source of iron, 13 knights would probably demolish them in 3 turns.

ok, I decide to leave it there for the next player to pick up. Egypt is the only decent Civilization besides us, and compared to them our military is considered weak. I suggest finishing off the French after the 20 turns expires, and waiting for chivalry; once we have chivalry, we should have the cash to upgrade all our horsemen to knights, and overrun the Romans.

So, Killer, when are all these surprise attacks I was promised going to start happening? :)

-Sirp.

ok, and now killer is up again! I will email you the save too killer.

6 cities in 9 turns!:goodjob:

killer, I believe you are now past 24 hours to claim; what's the story?

It's Killer's turn?! I think we should all state the queue very clearly at the end of our reports (just a thought).

I already played, since Telefragged moved the server I couldn't get to CFC..... sorry - I assumed everyone else had the same problems....

here's the turns:

preturn: veto Forbidden Palace in Orleans - we doN#t haev a leader to rush it. Buy Courthouse instead.
veto the forest cutting near Teotihuacan - that city has enough growth potential already, but too few two-prod tiles! We need these Forests, because we need several strong producers to grab as many wonders as possible in the middle ages! Also, the town will build a Cathedral now, to strengthen culture and to up happiness.

I see Rome has no iron.... :D
Chivalry in 10 @ 60% with +2 income.

(1) 310 AD - Orleans Courthouse --> Marketplace, Calixt.. Marketplace --> Cathedral. want that town in WLTKD soon, then go for wonders.

(2) 320 AD - moves

(3) 330 AD - Teayo founded. Iron near Calix.. exhausted :mad:

(4) 340 AD - Tecoco Cathedral --> Collosseum.

(5) 350 AD - Japan complains about troops, but signs ROP.

(6) 360 AD - Teotihuacan starts Courthouse after Cathedral. Tlaxcala has Marketplace, starts Horseman.

(7) 370 AD - nothing

(8) 380 AD - last city on island, Cempoala, founded. All Horsemen that aren't needed as garrison sent to Texcoco....

(9) 390 AD - Egypt offers ROP, pays 1 gold per turn for it. They have Invention now. Chivalry found, science back to zero.

(10) 400 AD - Tlaxcala will stay on Pikemen which will be used as garrison in captured French cities.

(11) 410 AD - Tlatewill has MArketplace, starts Cathedral. temple bought in Chartres, now Cathedral. Update three vet Horsemen to knights, elites will not be upgraded since Rome has Spearmen as best defenders.

(12) 420 AD - Courthouse in Teotihuacan, Palace as placeholder started. One more Knight upgraded.

(13) 430 AD - we get Theology and Invention. War with Rome. I want a leader for a Knight Army, then take more land and use the next leader to rush the Palace in Cumae. FP in 29 in Tlatewill, where I bought Courthouse (WLTKD is out of question there).
Fights: Horseman - Spear won, Knight - Spear retreat with only two HP off the Spear, Horse - wounded Spear won, Neapolis ours.
Roman Horseman in the open killed by Knight.
Horesman retreats, Knight wins + promo, Knight wins, Horesman wins, Pompeji ours.

(14) 440 AD - Pikeman produced in Calixt.., goes to threaten Hispalis, Horseman in Calixt ungraded, to go there, too (avoid attack there by therteniung the town). Our knight which killed Roman Horseman survives counterattack and goes elite :D. Warrior near Lutetia is killed by our Horseman. Other troops all inot towns to heal.

(15) 450 AD - some Roman troops show up. Elite knight kills Warrior, no leader :(. Elite Horseman kills Horseman - leader, sent to Pompeji, Army formed.

(16) 460 AD - healing turn, 1 defender of hispalis killed

(17) 470 AD - healing turn.

(18) 480 AD - our leader-producer is upgraded. run a risk, leave pompeji empty to mave all troops at Rome. Neapolis by now covered by Pikeman from Tlaxcala.

(19) 490 AD - we get Gunpowder from the GL. Two elite knights and 1 veteran take Rome, army (with only 1 veteran Knight) and elite Horseman kill tow Roman archers going for pomeji. Lutatia taken by Horseman.

(29) 500 AD - peace with France can be honorably cancelled now, move upgraded Knight there :D Killing roman troops gets us another leader by a horseman (named "elite", I'd suggest upgrading soon :D), leader stashed in Texcoco.



Suggestions: try to take Cumae soo, maybe use the leader on wonder and then fight on until we get another. Then, we shoudl take over our continent entirely and rush Palace in Cumae (best position if FP is in Tlatewill. We will get Sun Tzus in a few turns, maybe you could then rush Leos or Sixt. Chapel....

The Roman capital will jump to the other continent, which is fine, if we then make peace and sell (or even give for free) them iron, they can get a serious pain in the ass of Cleo ;)

I loaded only 1 knight into the army since i didn't want to wast our precious elites - remember, a unit in an army cannot generate a leader :(

Japan lacks iron, too - go get them :D

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/sp1-500AD.zip

btw Sirp, if you checkt the 'automatically parse URLs' option for your sig, or if you write: [URL*]http://www......[/URL*] (without the *) there will be a clickable link to your page in your sig ;)

ok, the order:

Sirp
Killer
William <---- UP NOW

SirJethro <--- Being skipped til further notice

I've just downloaded the save, should be playing in a few hours. but may take a little time till I post it, but it will definitely be here in 36 hours.

I've just played 8 turns, I don't think I'll play more than that this time.
I've lost Sun Tzu's art of war and got education. Sorry.
Here is the save:

Here is the report:

510AD(1): Roman horseman lands near Avignon. We take Hispalis with no loss and get an elite, loaded 1 knight into the army, now building FP in Paris. Up graded three knights.

520AD(2): Healing.

530AD(3): Hurries Loe's with the leader in TlateWill:).We kills 4 spears and takes Veii.

540AD(4): We kills 2 spears in Pisea. And three in Antium, takes Antium, gets saltpeter.

550AD(5): Egpt beats us to the SunTzu's by one turn!!!!!!:eek: :( We takes Pisea, and kills one spear in Cumae.

560AD(6): We takes Cumae. And finishes on Sinister Chapel;)

570AD(7): Loose a knight at Ravenna. Finishes Heroic epic.

580AD(8): We get Education (at 0%science!)!!!:eek: Now we starts to do some research into Banking, get it in 10turns at -5gpt.

Sorry, I've lost two wonders, but Rome is nearly wiped off the continate, and we've 17(?) knights, fancy a piece of Japan?

I'd say take Ravenna then sign a peace treaty.

btw, I may have used a few goto orders.

Hey, William, no sweat on the Academy. **** happenes, and Egypt is strong....

Good call on leos, if the Power-distribution stays we should be able to take a bit out of Japan and get another leader for the palace.....

ok, I'm up now.

1. Sirp <--- UP NOW
2. Killer
3. William

btw, I will look into that thing about the urls killer...thanks...just sometime when I'm not so busy! :)

I will probably play in around 12 hours.

umm...is it just me or is this game kinda a breeze?

Sirp: yep, we had a good start, yep we lucked out and got iron, yep, we never lost the initiative.....
essentially: it is a breeze....... I also play emperor atm and it's a breeze, too..... the AI is just too bad....

So killer, now you, like me, are saying that the AI is too easy, rather than too hard? Glad to hear it :-)

Sure we have iron, but we didn't even use iron to crush france, we used horsemen. We could have used either swordsmen or horsemen to do it of course.

But, winning doesn't just depend on "getting lucky" with a decent start and good resource access. If you want to see an example of a game where I had a bad start, and poor resource access, see my Epic5 results. The start was dismal - horrible land, lots of jungle, stuck on the end of a peninsula with the Greeks to my north. I built a city near iron, but it flipped to the Greeks, leaving me with no iron. I still managed to squeeze out a win though.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for these sneak attacks, but even if they happen; who could blame the AI for doing so? We are being aggressive, attacking other civs for no reason. Who could blame the other civs from deciding they wanted to do our legs in from behind, before we come after them?

Also, if you find Emperor easy, try Deity. It's not the fiasco it used to be, it seems pretty well-balanced in 1.29f.

I'm playing around with the idea of trying an emperor Always War game soon. That should be a real challenge. Alternatively, Always War on Deity level, on an archipelago map (making sure I have an island all to myself) could be an interesting option.

-Sirp.

Sirp: you make exactly my point, just backwards. You say we do not get sneak attack, thought you wouldn't blame the AI - I say I do get sneaked when I give no reason. When I play peacefull, I get attacked, when I play agressive (like this game), I do not get attacked - and this is my gripe with the game. It foces you to play aggressive as in this game. If we hadn't run over France, if we hadn't attacked Rome, one of the would have come for us soon.

Let us play the same game peacefully and you will see......

As for Deity - I will. Emperor with no additional starting unit for the AI is simple with a good start, challenging with a bad one :) Now, I will try Deity, then maybe give the AI 1 settler extra.....

Killer: You didn't say you only get sneak attacked if you play peacefully and not aggressively! You said it happens to you all the time. *sigh*! :-)

Anyhow, what is a guy with "killer" in his name doing playing peacefully? :-p

btw you should go and look on apolyton where people are playing games where they NEVER build any military units. Now they totally rely on the naive belief that the AI will be nice to them :-)

So uhh....did people still want to keep playing this particular game??

Originally posted by Sirp
You said it happens to you all the time. *sigh*! :-)

It cannot happen while at war ;)

Anyhow, what is a guy with "killer" in his name doing playing peacefully? :-p
one day I'll tell you the story behind that nick

btw you should go and look on apolyton where people are playing games where they NEVER build any military units. Now they totally rely on the naive belief that the AI will be nice to them :-)
plan to play a game like that, too :D

So uhh....did people still want to keep playing this particular game??

???? I hope so - maybe decide on a special victory type now to add challenge?

killer: ok sure, I dunno I just thought that since we hadn't really proved the point the game was meant to prove interest might have been waning! nah we'll just wipe them all out :) - unless you have good ideas for a special victory option.

uhh...do you want to go before me this round killer? I'm kinda tied up at the moment, but can play after you.

-Sirp.

fine with me, Sirp.... can you mail me? next game deity? or unmodded Emperor? or in between? (i.e. unmodded except for no AI additional units? or modded with additional units????

OH FU*CK!!!! corrupt savegame!!!!!! I have to play the turns again :mad:

I had captured half of Japan when I had to run errands - when i came back and wanted to load (turn 18!!!!!!) it didn't work....... and i do not have any intermediate saves - because they might tempt me to cheat...

:aargh:

OK, went toally different when the iroquese went to war against Egypt. Couldn't repaly the first time after that.

why are we building the FP too far northeast? It should be in Tlatewill or
Calixthuaca (there ordered).
Move Knights to attack last Roman city on our continent.

Cleo tries to extort us, then prolonges ROP :confused:
Veii flips to the English!!!!! :eek:

(1) 590 AD - lucky me - I moved all troops out of Veii - and it flips to the English! One defender of Ravenna killed, Knight now elite. Temple bought in Antium.

(2) 600 AD - one more defender killed. Iroquese go to war with Egytp (at
that point I knew I wouldn't be able to replay the original turns - a pity since the first time I got 3(!) leaders :()

(3) 610 AD - Ravenna taken, 1 promotion, 1 leader (first try I got two in that turn!!!!! :cry: )

(4) 620 AD - moves, buy Temple in Cumae

(5) 630 AD - Rome gives us Viroconium for peace. The city will not last long with us probably, but while we have it we have silks :D rush worker there.

(6) 640 AD - moves, get ready to kill Japan. Since we ahve ROP, I try to get them angry. they give us WM and 2 Gold for nothing.

(7) 650 AD - and again japan coughs up its gold

(8) 660 AD - moves

(9) 670 AD - England doesn't prolonge the Ivory deal - sorry Liz, but now you die! (this is different from the last game, where i got Japan to declare war, then bought England into the fray so Japan couldn't buy iron anymore). Some moves, buy Cathedral in Cumae, then will go for Barracks, then Pikemen. Banking found, go for Economics.

(10) 680 AD - getting ready to go for England. Japan deals us furs for two lux and 200 Gold flat.

(11) 690 AD - one more turn......

(12) 700 AD - decide to wait some more until FP is done... Then, we can rush palace in Cumae, then attack and get more leaders.

(13) 710 AD - Palace rushed, declare war on England after trying to extort. Brighton taken, Veii taken (1 loss), Hastings (defended by Spearmen!) taken, two promos :D

(14) 720 AD - :aargh: Palace completed before Calxthuaca was up - need 5 turn now for FP :( never mind, if we do get a leader it's worth it, if not t doesn't hurt becasue of the lower flip risk in the war zone. Two workers captured.

(15) 730 AD - kill several defenders in York and one in Warwick. Need to cut them from iron ASAP.

(16) 740 AD - take Warwick, one Spearman kills one of our Knights :mad: as

a revenge, I start a suicidal attack on York (I was angry), one Knight dies, but a 2HP elite knight kills the last defender :D York is ours!!!!!

(17) 750 AD - Tokugawa pay 13 gpt for ROP :D England signs peace with the iroquese. We kill three english Longbowmen and get a leader :D 3 turns to Economy, this coincides nicely with a healing time for our units

(18) 760 AD - the Egyptians start Magellans Voyage. I buy (for 1000 Gold and World Map) Astronomy so i can then trade Economics for Navigation in two turns - after all we're at war and may get more leaders.

(19) 770 AD - FP completed, Egypt are not willing to give us navigation no

matter what.

(20) 780 AD - Sell them Economics for 200 Gold, Map and 18 Gpt. Move troops towards London. Music Theory in 4 despite positive cash flow. Printing Press ever cheaper, go for that, then demo, then deal that to Egypt.



We need to up culture - I have started some libraries, then Cathedrals should follow. Once we have them everywhere we need not trade for luxuries anymore, thus denying the others the benefits of them.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/KS1-780AD.zip

ok, on my go we wiped out the English and are now looking to attack the Japanese, but have deals with them, so we can't for around another 10 turns. We got another great leader and used it to rush copernicus' observatory.

For some reason we were researching printing press; I don't know why we are researching technologies like that when there's cavalry to be gotten :-)

I switch our tech strategy to a beeline for military tradition. Should be able to take out the Japanese with ease, and then send boatloads of them to take out the Egyptians. The Iroquois are big enough to be a valuable ally when we want to attack Egypt.

880AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/ks1-880ad.zip)

I've got the game, will post in less than 36 hours.

Sirp: Printing Press to trade - all civs research towards Military Tradition, often i can get Gunpowder and another tech, sometimes even Banking for Printing Press and some gold - definately faster than researching. But if you killed the English off all the way I agree with the bee-line.

I'm playing now, I think we can go to war with the Japanese.

Played 8 turns, here's the game:

We've just decleared war on japan, with 23 cavs but not quite in good positions. On my last turn, we've take Osaka, Satsuma, and Edo in one turn.

Good luck!

BTW, is Sirjethro next?

it is indeed SirJethro!

I think I can play either today or tomorrow afternoon.

Guys...I'm not going to be able to play this afternoon. If anyone else is available to play, please don't wait on me. :sad:

Well I'm sick at the moment, on a course of anti-biotics, and after finishing a round of RBE1, I do *not* have any energy to play just now. If William or Killer want to play, go for it; otherwise we're happy to wait on you SirJethro.

William? How about you? I can't, so we gotta wait or you play....

This is is kind of falling apart, I was just going to say that skip me for a turn but looks like I'm the guy with most time on my hands, it's 9O'clock here, so yes, I will play tomorrow, but probably won't post in 24 hours.

I will leave for a holiday tomorrow, back Monday evening in a week.

If you can simply push me back in the rooster until i come back I'd be obliged.

My internet is out, I'm posting this from the library, I don't think I'll be posting any time soon.

back

welcome back Killer. Now, does *someone* want to have their turn? :)

ok, me :)