I've gone through the list a few times, trying to narrow down who i think would be best for me, while still displaying good overall ability. I currently am only playing on monarch...and have adopted a few strategies that i normally implement. I follow the city specialization technique...although, I'm still rusty with it...and probably make a few mistakes. Because of this, I've really grown to like the financial trait. In addition, I strongly favor the early rush to alphabet in order to leverage a few techs for others. I've found that I'm probably a pacifist to a fault. I will give techs away to stay out of war, devote only enough to military to defend myself, and will only attack for strategic purposes. What I've used and am still considering (please correct any misconceptions I have about these leaders/civs):

English Empire: I like both victoria and elizabeth. i think I prefer victoria to elizabeth. I like the philisophical trait...but I find that imperialistic greatly eases the pressure early game to expand. On the offchance that I start near fish or clams, it's nice to be able to pop out a workboat from the get-go, as well. I'm like the unique building...but I'm not a real fan of the unique unit. I find that rifling takes a while for me to get normally...and by that time, I'm almost far enough to get infantry. I've almost exclusively used the English Empire...with the exception of using darius once or twice.

Darius: Darius is well on the path to the alphabet from the start. He gets a scout, which helps to establish an early position of tech leveraging. The unique building is meh. The immortal is ridiculous if you have horses. I definitely prefer the immortal over the redcoat. His traits are solid. Although, -50% civic upkeep isn't huge, I don't think. And while the decresed cost for the factory, and specifically the lighthouse, are awesome...I hardly ever build courthouses...and because I'm not a conqueror, I don't find myself being hurt too often by maintenance costs.

Hannibal: I've been thinking about trying hannibal out. The charismatic trait seems very useful, possibly. I'm not big on monuments, currently. I suppose if I adjusted my playstyle to use them, it could double the effectiveness of the trait. The unique unit seems pretty lack-luster from what I can tell. It's a less powerful horse archer with +50% against melee. Not bad...but certainly not great, I don't think. The unique building is pretty fun.

Huayna Capac: Industrious and Financial. These are two pretty strong traits for me, i think. They focus more on infrastructure than battling. They don't have much synergy, but they're both independently useful. The unique building has potential, I think. Granaries are pretty solid in a number of city types. And because I'm not a big fan of monuments, I find myself making libraries a lot to expand my boarders and get access to new tiles. This might alleviate that necessity. I have no clue about the unique unit. I normally find that barbarian archers are knocking on my door right after I've built my 3rd city. The UU might help to protect an early worker strategy...but I'm not sure how much it will hurt me to not have a UU later game.

Willem von Oranje: Meh UU, situational unique building. But, the cultural trait is intriguing. This, too, might eliminate my need to throw a library in 3/4 of my cities just to get some new tiles.

Feel free to suggest other civs I might like, as well.

I'd give Pericles a try. I really like him :).

For you, I'd go Financial/Charismatic. I'm not entirely sure, but I think that's Hannibal, so go with him. Just beeline for Stonehenge and the Eiffel Tower. Financial lets your science go through the roof with some towns, some gold mines, and some spices.

Darius: Darius is well on the path to the alphabet from the start. He gets a scout, which helps to establish an early position of tech leveraging. The unique building is meh. The immortal is ridiculous if you have horses. I definitely prefer the immortal over the redcoat. His traits are solid. Although, -50% civic upkeep isn't huge, I don't think. And while the decresed cost for the factory, and specifically the lighthouse, are awesome...I hardly ever build courthouses...and because I'm not a conqueror, I don't find myself being hurt too often by maintenance costs.


Maintenance costs go up as you rank up in difficulty, so you generally want to have a courthouse in every city


Persia is extremely powerful for the first 30-50 turns in the game - If you're on a continent with another civ, all you have to do is get 1-3 immortals, and you got yourself an isolated start.

Well, I'm like you, I like financial leaders. Here are my opinions on each of them:

Victoria: I wouldn't play as her, because her Imperialistic Trait is more of a military trait. Elizabeth is better

Elizabeth: If you plan on Building a lot of wonders, or a hybrid economy (part cottage, part specialist), then go with her.

Darius: Darius is a good idea, I guess. I don't really care for him that much (that and he looks like a mummy)

Hannibal: My personal favorite, but that's because I like to have some military dominance (I'm a wannabe Warmonger, but a builder at heart. When I want more quality land, then I crush them all)

Huayna Capac: Ah, yes, Wonderhoarding. Not a bad idea.

Willem von Oranje: Good if you want to start expanding cultural bounderies. Your cities will always be producing culture. I think I'll try him myself

Ragnar: I don't like the aggressive trait, I feel it's to limited (compared to charismatic, which affects ALL units)

Wang Kon: I never used the protective trait, so I don't know

Pacal: Same as above

For you, I'd suggest Willem only if you plan on building many cities. Otherwise
choose darius, for maximized revenue.

Wow, there are 10 Leaders w/ the Financial Trait, and you recommended 9 of them.
:goodjob:

The missing leader? But of course, the illustrious Mansa Musa.

I bloody Hate Mansa Musa.

nonsoup,

The great thing about Civ IV is that as you aquire more skills, the game takes on yoru personality. The downside is that for a question like yours, you will get as many answers as the people answering you.

Rather than advise you which leader you should take, I will tell you what my experience has been:

If I want to play a "peaceful" game, I can aim for either space race victory or for a culture victory. The traits I found useful for these are:

Space Race:
Philosophical: GPs will give you tech leads, you can also try getting GSs and build academies, free univ also increases research)
Financial: more commerce = more research

Culture victory:
Spiritual: cheap temples means you spam temples, then build lots of cathedrals which are the most powerful cultural buildings
Philosophical: Great prophets will help you found more religions which means more temples and more cathedrals
Financial: More commerce also can give you more culture PLUS it will help you expand faster
Creative: Cities get culture bonus + cheap theaters and libraries
Industrious: Fast wonder building does wonders to your culture

As for me, I go for a culture victory and must have spiritual trait and opt for one of the other ones.


I do not have that much experience as a warmonger but whenever I played WM, I have found Genghis to be a very good one. Keshiks are very powerful and move very very fast. On forums I have seen people raving about Caesar's praetorians.

Here, more than the trait, you have to look for powerful UUs. As far as trait is concerned, aggressive is a given. You can opt for financial as I found supporting unit costs is the most important consideration. However, I think one has to first consider UU and compromise on the 2nd trait if needed.


Hope all this helps though I already told you - everyone will give a different opinion to your question.

I pick leaders that I find "fun". Not so much oh they have to have a specific trait. And "fun" is most certainly something that is very subjective and hard to quantify :-) Especially to someone else.

This year I've played a lot of Spiritual leaders, though I did have a pretty cool game with Brennus. Right now it's Ramesses II. I'm certainly not going to tell anyone 'how they should play - but I think you may be missing out if you are just looking for the best instead of the most fun.

@ OP: Looks like Victoria is indeed the perfect match for you; despite the increased GG rate I don't necessarily consider IMP a warmongering trait. Its early game boost is even greater for a peaceful player who nevertheless wants a reasonably sized empire; the savings on chopped/whipped settlers are huge.

One important question: What's the target size of your empire? The benefits of Financial and Organised scale with empire size, those of Industrious and Philosophical don't.

thanks for all the input. I decided I would just try the civ's out, and see what i thought. I started a game last night as huayna capac...and i love the style I used to adapt to his strengths. I'm playing a huge/epic, 18 Civ game...and ended up on a continent with 3 other civs. I'm currently ranked 1st in population, and top 5 in most of the big stats. I LOVE the terrace...the mix of granary/culture is lovely. And I'm making very effective use of wonders because of the industrious trait.

While the period of usefulness for the UU was short...I took huge advantage of it. I'm not a warmonger...but, when catherine settled on the only horses on the continent in the first couple of turns, I spammed out quechuas, and attacked her 3 pop city with a stack of 10 plus and archer. Those were able to hold off her counterstack, and I quickly made peace, and gave her writing as an olive branch.

Good stuff. I can't wait to see if I can find a way to get stonehenge while using Hannibal. I have my doubts.

I disagree with Iranon: Imperialistic is definitely a warmongering trait. Granted, it will give you a slight benefit in terms of Settler production in the early game. However, I think you can roughly get a similar experience by using an Expansive leader, leveraging that trait to build more Workers, and then using the extra Workers to chop more Settlers.

Regardless, once your REX is done and you're hemmed in, if you play peacefully (which you indicate is your preference), then you're playing with one hand tied behind your back, because your leader effectively has only one trait. The only way to leverage Imperialistic after, say, the 100th turn or so is to war, war, war, and earn Great Generals out the wazoo.

Charismatic is also a warmongering trait, so I don't know if Hannibal will suit your style of play any better than Victoria--again, you'd be reducing the leader from two traits to one with peaceful play. I even kind of regard Spiritual as a war trait, since the best way to leverage it is to switch into "war civics" (Police State, Vassalage, Slavery, Theocracy) to whip out a promoted army, then switch into economic and/or ww-combating civics.

Pacal and Huayna both strike me as excellent choices for your play style. As you've noticed, Huayna's Industrious trait is fun for wonder-whoring. Pacal is Expansive, and that's one of the most underrated traits in the game--its power comes from the cheap granaries, which allow you to start whipping sooner. The extra health benefit kicks in during the late game where it's most beneficial.

I even kind of regard Spiritual as a war trait, since the best way to leverage it is to switch into "war civics" (Police State, Vassalage, Slavery, Theocracy) to whip out a promoted army, then switch into economic and/or ww-combating civics.
I never really looked at it like that, but this is true. Even when I'm not necessarily war-mongering, I pre-build Armies (3-4 in the queue of my higher production cities, 1-2 in the queue of the lesser cities) prior to switching up civics for the +4XP.

William of Orange does NOT have a meh UU. He is damn strong, especially on island/archipelago style maps. I'd even go as far as to say his unique building is the most overpowered in the game if you pick him in archipelago maps...
Again the East Indiamen is about personal taste. I personally play on Marathon game speed. So it still does take a minor amount of time to get frigates. Even after i have obtained frigs, i still have a strength 6 unit capable of destroying caravels with ease, holding their own against privateers, and carrying 4 units, just like a transport. that is a very useful trait to have.
but an earlier poster is absolutely right, it is all about your personality. i like creative civs on marathon since i cant be bothered to waste 30odd turns building monuments left right and centre. and on my island maps, oranje is strong too...the leader you pick will best suit your style, it'll come naturally im sure to you.
(do u ever play random leaders?) thats great for working out strengths/weaknesses of leaders.

I never play random leaders or maps. i don't think I'm nearly good enough for that. And, after reading a few other threads, it looks like huayna capac is generally seen as the most powerful, if not the most powerful, leader. Now I feel cheap, haha. I might have to try and start a new game where I won't feel like i'm cheating.

I never play random leaders or maps. i don't think I'm nearly good enough for that. And, after reading a few other threads, it looks like huayna capac is generally seen as the most powerful, if not the most powerful, leader. Now I feel cheap, haha. I might have to try and start a new game where I won't feel like i'm cheating.

I don't think he's the most powerful leader, but he's acknowledged as a very good leader because he's so flexible. You can go the military route, leveraging his UU for ultra-early rushes; you can wonder-whore thanks to Industrious; and/or you can leverage financial to gain a tech lead and power yourself to a space victory, or any victory you choose, for that matter.

The flip side of this is that playing as Huayna may leave you with a lack of focus as you attempt to do everything--build every wonder, conquer the world, lead in techs, etc.

;6966675']I bloody Hate Mansa Musa.


If you can manage to build the Pyramids, Mansa Musa really shines. Spiritual/Financial works amazing with having all the government civics in the early game ... Financial + the Mint UB means you can rush all kinds of things with gold + universal sufferage (in addition to whipping) right from the Classical era ... and no anarchy with Spiritual, so you don't actually have to stay in Universal Sufferage much, just switch over for a little rushing and then switch back to something else.