http://www.civfanatics.net/methos/hof/staff/gauntlet.gifWhile the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we like to run time-definite competitions between updates that we call Gauntlets. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings will be counted towards the Gauntlet.

(*) Please read the >> HOF rules << (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/rules.php) BEFORE playing!


Settings:

Victory Condition: Religious (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
Difficulty: Prince
Starting Era: Ancient
Map Size: Standard
Map Type: Medium and Small
Speed: Normal
Civ: Holy Roman Empire (Charlemange)
Opponents: Must include Arabia (Saladin), Aztec (Montezuma), Byzantium (Justinian), Egypt (Ramesses II), India (Asoka), Spain (Isabella)
Version: 3.13.001
Date: 25th June to 10th July 2008
Must not play as Inca.

The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker

A very nice task. I think, I will try to submit my first Prince game.
To play Charlemagne and the HRE will be interesting... I think it is impossible to get one of the earlier religions, but we shall see.

What are the tips for this one? How do you race for religious victory whilst avoiding being stomped by Montezuma?

the problem with this one is that half the AIs are going to start on another land mass which means getting a theology beeline then an optics beeline, whilst defending yourself against the AIs who are all nutters

Charlemagne is Imp Pro both of which are useful in this game and starts with mysticism and hunting.

Best plan is perhaps a theology slingshot with the oracle then try not to spread christianity until you are ready

This looks like a cheesy self vote AP win will be out of the question

Imp and Pro both seems like totally useless traits to me :)

the problem with this one is that half the AIs are going to start on another land mass which means getting a theology beeline then an optics beeline, whilst defending yourself against the AIs who are all nutters

Charlemagne is Imp Pro both of which are useful in this game and starts with mysticism and hunting.

Best plan is perhaps a theology slingshot with the oracle then try not to spread christianity until you are ready

This looks like a cheesy self vote AP win will be out of the question

I plan to do a cheesy self vote AP win!

What are the tips for this one? How do you race for religious victory whilst avoiding being stomped by Montezuma?
From the BtS-Beta gauntlet I can give you
- low sea levels to avoid the need for Optics
- no religion until your AP-religion is spread to all opponents
- conquer and grow to finally self-vote

That sounds like a plan. I was thinking of adding a few zealot AIs to be friendlier ones and let them spread the religion to me while relying on Burger King's REXing to give me the pop to win, however this map might not let that happen.

Maybe not so on prince but could you not take Theology from a GP generated by Oracle and Stonehenge GPPs? You could use the free tech to get you out to see earlier.

I am planning for an ASAP rush to the nearest neighbor to allow me to expand the way the Burger King can. They don't call him the Whopper for nothing!

Does the AI start with Archery on Prince?

From the BtS-Beta gauntlet I can give you
- low sea levels to avoid the need for Optics
- no religion until your AP-religion is spread to all opponents
- conquer and grow to finally self-vote

I tried a game with low sea levels, I ended up on a continent with saladin and there was absolutly no way to get to the other continent :(

Do you need loads of luck to make low sealevel connect the continents?
Do you need special type of continent setting? I think I had normal continents, other options were Snaky continents, Unpredictable and islands

That sounds like a plan. I was thinking of adding a few zealot AIs to be friendlier ones and let them spread the religion to me while relying on Burger King's REXing to give me the pop to win, however this map might not let that happen.
From what I remember this is not a good strategy, each additional civ requires one more missionary to be build and one more diplomatic opponent to calm.

Maybe not so on prince but could you not take Theology from a GP generated by Oracle and Stonehenge GPPs? You could use the free tech to get you out to see earlier.I think I made CS slingshot and used a GP for Theology in the BtS-Beta

I am planning for an ASAP rush to the nearest neighbor to allow me to expand the way the Burger King can. They don't call him the Whopper for nothing!If you plan a Axe-rush, this seems doable, warrior rush may be really difficult, normal speed and starting with a scout will not give enough turns to build a warrior and reach your nearest neighbor.

Does the AI start with Archery on Prince?As far as I know, the AI won't have Archery at Prince (and I am pretty sure...)

Before everyone is asking - here is the helpful discussion of BtS-Beta 8

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=254134

My first attempt did not go as well as I hoped. I finished in 1935n not a stellar time I know. I did not have enough population to self vote, but at least I was the only candidate. I had to butter up two AI players into voting for me too. Not an easy task since most of the AI players started on the other side of the world and all shared a religion that I did not have!

I will try low sea level next time. I will also try to REX more so that I have a high enough population to self vote.

Thanks for the link HHG.

You have been just as helpful to me in this thread as that one, even answering my same question twice!

I do find Religion to be one of the more frustrating victory types, as sometimes you just have no control over religion spread. What if your opponents are on Theocracy or something by the time you get there?

I do find Religion to be one of the more frustrating victory types, as sometimes you just have no control over religion spread. What if your opponents are on Theocracy or something by the time you get there?
You do have few options :
option 1 : gift them a missionary
option 2 : take them down (and spread your religion to their cities). Having a vassal is also cool.
option 3 : build a settler and a missionary. Plant a worthless city right under their nose. You will be asked to "liberate" the city. Do it just after spreading the religion.

You do have few options :
option 1 : gift them a missionary
option 2 : take them down (and spread your religion to their cities). Having a vassal is also cool.
option 3 : build a settler and a missionary. Plant a worthless city right under their nose. You will be asked to "liberate" the city. Do it just after spreading the religion.

I usually go for option 1. I might try option 3 in the future to limit their votes. Thanks for the advice.

Imp and Pro both seems like totally useless traits to me :)

Imp is useful as you can get your early cities up and running quickly. It also makes the settler missionary trick to give the AIs the exact number of votes to allow you to pull off the self vote exploit easier. But even without this borderline cheating more votes are better and Imp lets you get more cities out faster.

Pro is useful as it gets you cheap walls and better archers and you may well need them with Monty etc out there

From the BtS-Beta gauntlet I can give you
- low sea levels to avoid the need for Optics
- no religion until your AP-religion is spread to all opponents
- conquer and grow to finally self-vote

you need to be in a state religion whilst you build the AP, I think targeting a christian AP is probably the way to do this. as usually the AI will be in the other religions and once its built switch to the most popular religion, as the AP builder you don't need to be in its religion to win

Before everyone is asking - here is the helpful discussion of BtS-Beta 8

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=254134

Thanks for the link HHG.

You have been just as helpful to me in this thread as that one, even answering my same question twice!yw - to prevent answering most questions several times I searched the link above. I think EVERYTHING is answered there. It was a very valuable discussion in that thread revealing all not visible backgrounds of religious victories.

Imp is useful as you can get your early cities up and running quickly. It also makes the settler missionary trick to give the AIs the exact number of votes to allow you to pull off the self vote exploit easier. But even without this borderline cheating more votes are better and Imp lets you get more cities out faster.I think the starting position is more important in this task. Read the thread mentioned above and the really detailed walkthrough of Andrej and you will agree with me

Pro is useful as it gets you cheap walls and better archers and you may well need them with Monty etc out thereYou don't need walls and Archers. My strategy will be:
- CS slingshot
- conquer the initial continent
- Theology with GP
- infiltrate each reamining civ with a Conf-missionary
- switch to Conf - build AP
- switch to NoReli - build HG until 1 turn to complete
- when vote comes in: switch to conf, complete HG

This is the theory - lets see what the reality reveals :crazyeye:



you need to be in a state religion whilst you build the AP, I think targeting a christian AP is probably the way to do this. as usually the AI will be in the other religions and once its built switch to the most popular religion, as the AP builder you don't need to be in its religion to win
it is better let the non-AP-religions spread througout the world, and only infiltrate the smallest cities of your opponents with the AP-religion. With this strategy you can self-vote ;)

I'm in first place. That's what hapens when you are the only one to submit a game so far. I'm sure to have a better date than 1935 by the time other submission start coming in.

I'm in first place. That's what hapens when you are the only one to submit a game so far. I'm sure to have a better date than 1935 by the time other submission start coming in.if it's BC you are the king :king: - if it's AD you will keep your current last place :joke:

Hmm I played a game that went quite ok. I finished apostic palace by about 300 AD, and all other civs were infected.

However, When the inital vote came on I switched my religon to no state religon or something, and the result was that no Apostic Palace Resident was elected at all. Needless to say this totally messed up my game and no victory vote was possible. By the time the second vote for Apostic palace resident came around it was 1100 AD and I could not get majority on victory vote.

Anyone know what may have gone wrong? On which turn (after the completion of AP) can you switch religon without messing things up?
What is the vote schedule after AP is complete?

Hmm I played a game that went quite ok. I finished apostic palace by about 300 AD, and all other civs were infected.

However, When the inital vote came on I switched my religon to no state religon or something, and the result was that no Apostic Palace Resident was elected at all. Needless to say this totally messed up my game and no victory vote was possible. By the time the second vote for Apostic palace resident came around it was 1100 AD and I could not get majority on victory vote.

Anyone know what may have gone wrong? On which turn (after the completion of AP) can you switch religon without messing things up?
What is the vote schedule after AP is complete?As far as I remember you should wait for "no religion" until after the initial vote results show up.

this happened to me once as well, its irritating but if you wait till the results are in before switching its ok after that

Had a pretty sweet game, but the date of 16xx can and will be beaten. I had a continent with Izzy, Ramses and Asoka. I managed quite a few firsts: 1st religion founded, Oracle, Music, Liberalism, Economics (was a tie, but I got it). The EPs really help you with races.

I also founded Monotheism, Col, Theology and Philosophy - missing out on DR by a few turns, but I only tried when I thought I could switch and beat the AI...I could have had it way back.....and after losing both the SM and Versailles races to that Wonder monster Ramses, I may go for it with the GPs next time.

I had to gift missionaries to all the other guys. First one failed Arabia. The second boat should have been send MUCH sooner. I really didn't rush for Astronomy much, so I know I can do better. It's really not that bad, it's likely that you can get everyone on your continent with the same religion. I built the AP as a Christian but got Spain and Egypt to be Jewish. I even converted Asoka from his Buddism, but not until after a diplo penalty for not switching to his earlier. If you can get Ramses on your land mass, you should get a huge bonus for OR....he loves it! I had to turn down Izzy a few times with her Theocracy, but I did do another switch she asked and give in to a few demands. I later signed a DP with her.

Monty start on an island of his own, so that made for a very peaceful game over all. I am sure next time will be different.

I finally managed to do this on my 7th attempt. 1980AD for me, but I'm really not sure I have got the hang of this religious victory condition.

I've installed the 3.17 patch. Does that invalidate any games submitted with the 3.13.001 HOF Mod:confused:

yes I think the mod won't work with it properly

Played with a terrible hangover but I manged to win by 960 AD
It was the second vote that yielded my win. I had +5 with Asaoka and pleased, so I thought he would vote for me and I spread to some of his cities. Then he abstained :(

Anyone know what the trigger for having the AI voteing for you is? Second vote I was +8 and pleased with Asaoka and then he voted for me.

usually they only ever vote for me at friendly

yes I think the mod won't work with it properlyThanks Bestje; I tried loading the HOF mod and starting this game, but it crashed, so I guess the 3.17 patch nerfed the HOF Mod :sad: I guess they'll be updating the HOF mod soon to make it compatible with the 3.17 patch.

Noob question for future reference: How do you gift units/missionaries to the heathens? I set up a test game with the 3.17 patch, and tried to give a christian missionary to Budda-loving Isabella, but couldn't figure out how to do it. Isabella was/is annoyed with me (usually happens every game, not unusual:rolleyes:) Do I need to be on better terms with the AI civs?

How do you gift units/missionaries to the heathens?

You will need to sign open borders with the heathen, then move the missionary into their territory and hit the gift unit button, which is a unt action button with the little gift wrapped present on it...

Thanks Blunt Axe! I didn't have the open borders treaty, since Isabella was annoyed with me. Never noticed the gift box before, shows I never gave units away before :blush: I guess that's why the Caravels are needed; get into their territory without OB treaty and then gift the missionary????

I guess that's why the Caravels are needed; get into their territory without OB treaty and then gift the missionary????

I have never tried this before so i don't know if it would work, can someone help here? I assume that you would need to get the missionary on land first?

I believe that is correct. You still need OBs to get the missionary on land.

Yes, you need OB so the caravel freedom of movement is not that relevant.

I dont get it, I just had another game where I was not allowed to become the president.

The AP was finished and I voted my self for president, however, the votes were never counted and time just went on without anyone being elected.

This time I did not switch religon after AP was built. Anyone know what is causing this?

I dont get it, I just had another game where I was not allowed to become the president.

The AP was finished and I voted my self for president, however, the votes were never counted and time just went on without anyone being elected.

This time I did not switch religon after AP was built. Anyone know what is causing this? I assume you currently own more than 75% of "AP-religion" votes. Because you are the owner of the AP, your votes are counting twice. So switch to "no religion" (this halfes your votes), wait some turns until the Diplomatic vote comes in, and after voting for yourself, switch to the AP-religion in the same turn.

The 2nd possible reason could be that not all opponents have at least one citiy with the AP-religion. Each civ, even if vassalized, must have at least one city with the AP-religion to enable AP-diplomatic.

that doesn't sound like what he's asking. I've had this happen to me once and I put it down to the religion switch but as you say you didn't do this, i'm not sure.

Under the resolutions tab does it say who the resident is?
Otherwise either restart or wait for the next election (i think its something like 14 turns)

that doesn't sound like what he's asking. I've had this happen to me once and I put it down to the religion switch but as you say you didn't do this, i'm not sure.

Under the resolutions tab does it say who the resident is?
Otherwise either restart or wait for the next election (i think its something like 14 turns)

It didnt say that anyone was president, and the screen with the votes counted never came up :(

Anyhow I dunno... I may have spread my religon to a new AI on the turn in question if this can have an effect?

I was also at war with one AI on the turn in question.

I'm not playing this gauntlet, but the exact same thing happened to me in a GOTM. I think this victory condition is plagued with bugs - maybe they fixed it in the last patch?

that doesn't sound like what he's asking. I've had this happen to me once and I put it down to the religion switch but as you say you didn't do this, i'm not sure.

Under the resolutions tab does it say who the resident is?
Otherwise either restart or wait for the next election (i think its something like 14 turns)Sry - I confound president with leader. Nevertheless I never had this problem ...

I am 2nd now with 1430AD. Played the strategy mentioned above, but not planing well ahead. I researched too much and made the mistake of trying to get as many religions as possible. So the other continent was totally Budhist and I don't need the different missionaries for false-religion-spread. I will try another one not focusing on religions. So the civs on the other continents may have some fights belonging to different religion-blocks :D

PS: What is the current date to beat?

I believe ssjos has 960 or something. I have tried again several times, but Ramses always beats me to the AP. I will be happy if I can keep 3rd, but will keep trying in order to do my best to ensure I keep it.

I was supposed to be packing and moving out of my apartment and getting ready to travel for a few months, but you all know how it is.

I believe ssjos has 960 or something.Ouch - this will be very tough to reach - even with "low sea" I needed caravels, and by conquering the initial continent I had to drop the science slider ...
I have tried again several times, but Ramses always beats me to the AP. I will be happy if I can keep 3rd, but will keep trying in order to do my best to ensure I keep it.With my tries I never had some1 else building AP. I am always going for Oracle->Theology and then chopping AP in capital.
I was supposed to be packing and moving out of my apartment and getting ready to travel for a few months, but you all know how it is.Wish you a nice trip :cool:

Oracle for CS, tech for optics and then get theology :)

hello all :) after an 8 months break its time to come back to these gauntlets :cool:

I submitted a 1440 AD win - would have been 9 turns earlier if my last religion spread would not have fallen into the same turn of the vote and thus canceled it :gripe: this bug should be gone in 3.17 :please:

anyway: I started out with Rameses, Saladin and Justinian on one continent - and we where a happy hindu family apart from five turns during which I switched to christianity to complete the AP in the one true faith ;) - after that I spread christianity throughout the continent but making sure to not spread it to so many cities that one of the others would switch out of hinduism - all 3 of my buddies voted me to the win with me having just about half of the necessary votes myself...

so thats what causes the bug though I think changing out of the AP religion also triggers it.
thats a really bad design flaw :gripe::wallbash:

the bug I am referring to is one where adding a new member to the UN or the AP (by colony formation or religion spread) on the turn of a vote causes this vote to be canceled - in case of the first resident/secretary general vote it even disables the AP/UN if it happens. This bug should be fixed in 3.17 - I have not seen it happen by religion changes and I don't believe that it works this way.
The real design flaw was using Vanilla code (for the voting) and not updating it to the BtS features that allow for new members to arise (in Vanilla and Warlords its impossible for this situation to occur) - but then again there is no use to :gripe: about things that should be fixed by now :)

the bug I am referring to is one where adding a new member to the UN or the AP (by colony formation or religion spread) on the turn of a vote causes this vote to be canceled - in case of the first resident/secretary general vote it even disables the AP/UN if it happens. This bug should be fixed in 3.17 - I have not seen it happen by religion changes and I don't believe that it works this way.
The real design flaw was using Vanilla code (for the voting) and not updating it to the BtS features that allow for new members to arise (in Vanilla and Warlords its impossible for this situation to occur) - but then again there is no use to :gripe: about things that should be fixed by now :)Hi Ori, welcome back

never heard of this bug, but well, this could explain some strange behaviour in my games, where I expected a vote and it never comes up :crazyeye:

Had a great start for this one, 5 FP, 2 gold, corn and cows. Oracled Theology and had the AP in 150BC. 500 AD had optics. Spread Confucianism to the other continent by 950AD and got the vote in 1150AD. 8 votes short since Monty converted in time for the vote.

Thats when the "fun" began. For the next vote Rammy, converted and had spammed conf. so it was a split vote. Then he moved into the palace but wouldn't proposed a vote. I spammed the dominant religion to him and used a spy to convert him but then he changed right back. I used another spy (third try) to get him back to hindu for good. Good the palace back and had friendly with all but monty for a win in 1760 (Blah).

Had a great start for this one, 5 FP, 2 gold, corn and cows. Oracled Theology and had the AP in 150BC. 500 AD had optics. Spread Confucianism to the other continent by 950AD and got the vote in 1150AD. 8 votes short since Monty converted in time for the vote.

Thats when the "fun" began. For the next vote Rammy, converted and had spammed conf. so it was a split vote. Then he moved into the palace but wouldn't proposed a vote. I spammed the dominant religion to him and used a spy to convert him but then he changed right back. I used another spy (third try) to get him back to hindu for good. Good the palace back and had friendly with all but monty for a win in 1760 (Blah).For that reason I normally conquer my starting continent and going for self-vote. This costs something around 200 years, but it gives a guaranteed win.

For that reason I normally conquer my starting continent and going for self-vote. This costs something around 200 years, but it gives a guaranteed win.

Good plan. I'd try that but it looks like I ran out of time working on my Rock of Ages for my EQM (still can't get the modern win on monarch).

:crazyeye:

Good plan. I'd try that but it looks like I ran out of time working on my Rock of Ages for my EQM (still can't get the modern win on monarch).

:crazyeye:

Don't feel too bad. I wasn't able to finish a Space Colony game before the update either. That is the only thing I need to be (Warlord) EQM. I think that my Space Colony game for QM was won on a duel map.

Even with the lovely wife out still no luck?

Even with the lovely wife out still no luck?

Finished it, maybe even in time for the update. I decided to drop from Monarch to Warlord for an easy Space Colony victory since Warlord is the highest level of EQM that I can finish this update. My Rock of Ages is complete for Monarch though...Askoka didn't beat me to a spaceship victory ;).

This Gauntlet is finished. Results:

1st ssjos 960 AD
2nd HolyHandGrenade 1140 AD
3rd Mesix 1330 AD

Congratulations!