Barabarians are one of the most interesting challenges in the early game but they lack in diversity....you already know that hordes of Orcish Warrior and Goblins are going to attack you.
Wouldn't be better if human barbarians would be also added, there are lot of unique units in the vanilla game like the Jaguar Warrior, Quechua or the Indians of America UU which could be used as art for Jungle barbarians.
Celts UU or other UU from middle eastern civs have also a nice art which could be used as barbarians
Barbarian diversity shouldn't be just about art but those units could have different names and different stats to make barbarians challenge more unique and different.

Orthus did seem to be converting humans in his entry, since I don't think there were to many Orcs living right outside Kwythellar. So why no barbarian Humans, just Orcs, Goblins and Lizards?

Wouldn't be better if human barbarians would be also added, there are lot of unique units in the vanilla game like the Jaguar Warrior, Quechua or the Indians of America UU which could be used as art for Jungle barbarians.
Celts UU or other UU from middle eastern civs have also a nice art which could be used as barbarians
Barbarian diversity shouldn't be just about art but those units could have different names and different stats to make barbarians challenge more unique and different.

An excellent idea, orcs and goblins are very predictable, and they aren`t really a challenge. Some diversity and unpredictability would be good I think. I`d like to see some random Barbar heroes (apart from the horsemen) that come at you from the start of the game, or maybe some unique war machines.

If you want an interesting interaction with "Wildlife", there is a simple fix in line with the excellent Background of FFH:

Try Marnoks Mod in the Scenarios & Mods Subforum. It gives much more diversity then just pesky humans :p and adds some really interesting features to the landscape.

Sadly not yet converted to the new CiV-Patch and Version g+ but im sure in a few days Marnok will. Offers all that you wish for really and more + really improves an allready greath game.

So no additional effort on behalf of the FFH2 Team needed. Just get that modmod.



Oh, and Archers / the Archery line are much better there as well without any direct improvement which also helps balance.

I wouldn't mind some more powerful late-game Barbs as well, to spice things up. Many games won't see barbs after turn 250-ish because all the space has been filled in, but Creation or Highlands maps often leave quite a bit of room that's just not worth settling. If there's bunch of open space, I shouldn't be able to park a few Empower-IV skeletons at choke points and know for sure they'll defeat the weak Lizardmen that spawn forever.

Alternately, Barbs could eventually start getting smarter and attacking in more coordinated hordes around the middle of the game. One lizardman every 5 turns isn't scary, but 6 lizardmen every 30 turns is. I don't know how hard this would be to code though....

Honestly, there comes a point where you're sacrificing playability / your core focus in favor of variety. A lot of the mod mods (MagisterCultuum's and Marnok's in particular) veer in this direction, in my opinion: they take the focus off competing with other civilizations in favor of adding more variety and flavor. This can be a little bewildering to get used to, and since the BTS update / cutting down of the magic system FFH is actually quite approachable. To move in the direction the mod-modders want is maybe not the best plan.

That said, once you do know base FFH pretty well I'm sure the mods are a lot more interesting. I've finally gotten around to trying things like the Creation mapscript (which I like) in the last week or so and I have to admit, they're making the game more interesting again... but whatever mod I happen to run tends to dominate the shape of the game to a great extent. This is not a bad thing, just something to consider in feature suggestions.

Goblins / orcs / lizardmen are okay as barbarian threats, though I would like to see the barbs upgrade a little faster. It's not that I mind farming Orcish Axemen and Archers if I've left Acheron's city standing, it's just that it becomes more of a chore than a threat.

Diversity would be nice, but ONLY if it didn't take away from other more important elements of the game, i.e. core focus and playability. Jus make sure those doverse barbs don't interrupt my wars gainst my neighbors too much and I'm ok with em.

I would just like barbarian non-animal/beasts to have a random race. That would be enough diversity for me.

So, like have em have angel, demon, human, elf, etc.? Hmm...even that'd be better than wat we have now.

In order to make Barbarians realistic and flavourful, massive changes to the way they work would be necessary.

Specifically, I would run Barbarians as many "mini civilizations." Each respects only its own interests and wages war against all others in the area, until one gets a few cities and becomes an actual civilization, on the list like all the others.

Especially in FF with the Lizardmen civs, they need to be broken up. (As MagisterCultuum's been advocating for years, now, IIRC) Vehem would be a good person to demo a few possible break-up styles in his mod mod - its not all that clear as to where Barbatos would go, though Acheron (Who I assume is Bhall's....) would obviously go with the orcs...

Barabarians are one of the most interesting challenges in the early game but they lack in diversity....you already know that hordes of Orcish Warrior and Goblins are going to attack you.
Wouldn't be better if human barbarians would be also added, there are lot of unique units in the vanilla game like the Jaguar Warrior, Quechua or the Indians of America UU which could be used as art for Jungle barbarians.
Celts UU or other UU from middle eastern civs have also a nice art which could be used as barbarians
Barbarian diversity shouldn't be just about art but those units could have different names and different stats to make barbarians challenge more unique and different.

Great idea. I think it would add a lot of colour to the mod without adding any more complexity to the beginner.

In order to make Barbarians realistic and flavourful, massive changes to the way they work would be necessary.

Specifically, I would run Barbarians as many "mini civilizations." Each respects only its own interests and wages war against all others in the area, until one gets a few cities and becomes an actual civilization, on the list like all the others.

Wat you're talkin bout sounds to Rhye's. And it could be done like Rhye's. But it'd very complex.

Yeah, exactly. It's the only way to do barbarians with any sense of realism, but it'd take way too much work.

Well, less you fine someone who's got all that much time (And I don't), we're stuck with crappy barbs, guys.

Well, less you fine someone who's got all that much time (And I don't), we're stuck with crappy barbs, guys.

the art is already available, and stats could be changed easily, so it shouldn't require so much time.
The vanilla warrior,axeman, and spearman are no more used in FfH2 so they could be intoduced again as human barbarians so that barbarians wouldn't just be synonimous of Orcish, and vanilla UU particularly of mesoamerican civs could be nice exotic barbarians

I'd like to see a barbarian Shaman with Medic and Channeling 1, plus a spell or two. Also a Berserker type.

the art is already available, and stats could be changed easily, so it shouldn't require so much time.
The vanilla warrior,axeman, and spearman are no more used in FfH2 so they could be intoduced again as human barbarians so that barbarians wouldn't just be synonimous of Orcish, and vanilla UU particularly of mesoamerican civs could be nice exotic barbarians

None of that is the problem. The problem is findin the time to do it. So, maybe you're volunteerin. I can't; I'm already on two mod teams and have to work in RL.

I'd like to see a barbarian Shaman with Medic and Channeling 1, plus a spell or two. Also a Berserker type.

That'd be kinda cool.

Use the beastman and other doviello models for the random human barbs. Consider them doviello outcasts or lost tribes that have gone their own way. Would make sense lore-wise, I think.

And do you have the time to do it? The all repeatin mantra from me's gonna be, "Do you have time? I don't". So, til ya guys find someone other than me to do it, you're stuck with borin barbs.

My buddy has seen barbarian berserkers and beastmasters. That's quite enough variety for my taste.

Hmm...has anyone else? I haven't.

They aren't blocked from building them, but those are very late game units. It is unlikely that they will get the techs they need in most games.

Ah, ok. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

I've seen barbarian Beastmasters in a couple games. That's the strongest normal barb I've seen, though.

I've seen barbarian Beastmasters in a couple games. That's the strongest normal barb I've seen, though.

Me too, actually. Jus this last game with Alexis.