Another much-maligned feature of civ4, but I love 'em.

The past few games I've built 5 monasteries in my bureaucratic capital and added the Great Library and Parthenon and run Representation. Later adding Oxford when I can. Wow. That's powerful, I've found myself researching everything else but SciMeth, putting it off as far as possible. I've found that I cruise past the other AI's, and when I go as far as I can, it's a simple matter to trade for SciMeth and the few subsequent techs unlocked to me. I maintain an overall lead, and at the same time rack up quite a bank.

It's such a disappointment when I finally have to take scimeth bcz I take such a significant hit.

Monasteries are great.

Its not usually easy to get 5 religions in a city though. On harder difficulty levels you can't found all the religions.

Yer lucky to get One or Two religions at Monarch and above. At the crazy difficulties - I imagine you sometimes need to cross your fingers for an AI's religion to spread to you :-)

Its not usually easy to get 5 religions in a city though. On harder difficulty levels you can't found all the religions.
You don't need to found them; getting them to spread to you is enough.

I hate that Scientific Method disables building new monasteries. I end up putting it off for a while as well, often hoping that I can get an AI's religion to spread before that, so that I'll be able to produce my own missionaries for it. I generally prefer running Free Religion, so I want as many as I can get (not to mention being able to build more temples for further increased happiness).

I'm finding that putting off Scientific Method for too long can bite me in the behind, though. Even when I end up with an overall tech lead, I find myself losing out on getting the Rock and Roll, Broadway, and Hollywood wonders (which give you some great trading resources, as well as the happiness).

I wish there was an easier way to produce missionaries, post-Scientific Method tech (I hate switching around my Civic/Religion to do it).

I edited the game to never make monestaries obsolete.
I can imagine why they should go obsolete, but i like building them so much as well as well as spread religion late game (without having to switch to organized religion) i changed it.

If you want i can send you the xml file.

I edited the game to never make monestaries obsolete.
I can imagine why they should go obsolete, but i like building them so much as well as well as spread religion late game (without having to switch to organized religion) i changed it.

Monasteries retain the ability to build missionaries w/o org rel even after SciMeth, provided monastery was build before reaching the tech.

i played a game on monarch once.... i was going for a cultural victory (my first ever) and for some reason the AI were inclined to spread 4 religions into my cities, which already had one religion.
this helped very greatly.

I hate losing the SM and UoS bonuses from monastaries.

If they have monasteries in the game, there should also be nunneries. Shows how sexist Firaxis is.

No. Shows how sexist MANKIND was over the course of history. Many religions did have monasteries, but not nunneries. And nunneries were rarely the centres of learning that many monasteries were, simply because it was not expected of women to become highly educated, even if they were nuns (though there are always exceptions, of course, like Hildegard von Bingen).

Unless you were just joking (oh please, don't let me answer seriously to a joke again! :lol: ), I can see your point, I guess. Sexism in games is bad. However, I would say that depicting (alternative) history in a way which makes it look less sexist is also dangerous. It's like a medieval novel in which every Christian likes and respects Jews - sure, gives you a better feeling, sets a good example, etc.. But in a way, it is ignoring the suffering of millions over the centuries.

Well if Buffalo is serious...
Theres only one of the religions that would even qualify for a "nunnery"
And not like the Monastery in civ states "men" only.
Theres also no Deacon, Minister, Evangelist or Altar"Boy" Buildings either.

Theres the:
Temple -> Citizens go to Worship.
Monastery -> Where the "priests" study/live.
Cathedral -> Where the Pope hoards the tithes the Religion collects :-)

Those three represent a game mechanic and an actuality in history.

If a building can't be realistically portrayed by all the religions, it doesn't represent a logical game mechanic. And I quite think there are enough - if not too many - religious buildings already.

Is there a way of building monasteries after Scientific Method, and lose just lose the science boost. You can never let them go obsolete but then you have the 10% :science:

How about creating a building available with SciMeth that allows building missionaries but doesn't provide a science boost.

is a good idea, "New Monasteries"

How about creating a building available with SciMeth that allows building missionaries but doesn't provide a science boost.

Is there really any point in building missionaries after scientific method?

Yes. Money, happiness, dilpomacy, AP votes/production.

Cathedral -> Where the Pope hoards the tithes the Religion collects :-)

That would be a Basilica, a special kind of Cathedral for the pope.

How about creating a building available with SciMeth that allows building missionaries but doesn't provide a science boost.
Something like that would be nice. I think it'd be fine if it just obsoleted the science boost of all Monasteries, but allowed you to still build them.

Is there really any point in building missionaries after scientific method?
Yes. It allows you to build more missionaries in more places (especially if an AI's religion spreads to your empire around the time of Scientific Method being discovered). Using those missionaries to spread religion(s) means you can:
1) Build more churches to increase happiness.
2) Build more cathedrals (since you're able to build more churches).
3) Get more votes for the Apostolic Palace.
4) Increased happiness if you're running Free Religion (and I pretty much always do). This happiness "stacks" with that of more churches as well.

Something like that would be nice. I think it'd be fine if it just obsoleted the science boost of all Monasteries, but allowed you to still build them.


Yes. It allows you to build more missionaries in more places (especially if an AI's religion spreads to your empire around the time of Scientific Method being discovered). Using those missionaries to spread religion(s) means you can:
1) Build more churches to increase happiness.
2) Build more cathedrals (since you're able to build more churches).
3) Get more votes for the Apostolic Palace.
4) Increased happiness if you're running Free Religion (and I pretty much always do). This happiness "stacks" with that of more churches as well.

5) If the religion is founded by you more money in holy city.

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Monasteries retain the ability to build missionaries w/o org rel even after SciMeth, provided monastery was build before reaching the tech.

just stating the bleeding obvious huh?

What i ment was... ill give an example:
if you conquer a civ that has , for example islam as a religion, and they are on another island, and you dont have any cities which had build monestaries for islam, and you are beyond SM: you cant spread the religion.

Uh... yes you can, you jsut have to switch civics into organised religion.
If you are not spiritual you could burn a golden age to prevent the anarchy. I find that airports are especially useful for this (can airlift spread to any of your cities anywhere on the map)

You can expect to spread 1.5 missionaries/turn, (only 3 max missionaries/religion may exist at any one time) if there is a one turn delay between producing a missionary and settling. (just get one city to build missionaries at a rate 1turn and another one at 2 turns) per religion.

So even without the mausoleum, with airports in your missionary producing cities over the course of an 8-turn golden age you could get 7x1.5= 10 spread attempts per religion, more if you are spreading to close cities (build/settle on the same turn) (railroads anyone?). With the mausoleum you can do much better with 11x1.5 = 16 spreads. Just remember that the odds of succesfully spreading a religion drop as more religions are present. I believe the odds are something like 9% failure rate giving a 100%, 91%, 82%, 74%, 65%, 57%, 48% with 0,1,2,3,4,5,6 other religions present (not that this formulae also applies to corporations too)

see
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=237869
For more religion details
(Note: cannot build missionaries on the final turn of golden age as you must switch out to avoid the anarchy)

GooglyBoogly said
Uh... yes you can, you jsut have to switch civics into organised religion.


stoney said:
I can imagine why they should go obsolete, but i like building them so much as well as well as spread religion late game (without having to switch to organized religion) i changed it.


already stated that i dont wanna ;)

no biggy though.

and yeah you can Burn a GA for it, but then you can spread religion 24 turns (with mauss on marathon) before switching back. just isnt enough imho.

@OP: You must have had a crazy tech lead to put off SciMeth for so long. I need to know where oil is ASAP so I can be sure I secure it via colonies or violence. Oil is way too important in my games since they ALWAYS go until at least the modern era .

Speaking of Monestaries, how come as soon as they are obsolete, every natural disaster seems to destroy them?

Late game religion spreading seems a little unnecessary. If you're going for shrine gold, I'd rather found a corporation and spread that. It gives much more gold AFAIR and can damage a rival's economy if you spam it to their cities.

@OP: You must have had a crazy tech lead to put off SciMeth for so long. I need to know where oil is ASAP so I can be sure I secure it via colonies or violence. Oil is way too important in my games since they ALWAYS go until at least the modern era .

Yes, of course I did. Admittedly, the game is only at monarch level (and is therefore quite easy), but consider 5 monasteries in your capital city (the palace gives 8 commerce) with several settled GS's, several science specialists, and Representation. All that boosted by an additional 50%. With 5 monasteries in such a city, teching is a breeze. When I had finally reached my max, I started selling my techs at a discount to the AI for the sci meth techs and still maintained a substantial lead.

Late game religion spreading seems a little unnecessary

disagree

specially if you have captured some nice holy cities and they have finished their markets, grocers and banks. spreading the goods can really save yr economy in late game. and by then you build missio's in 1 turn most of the time. (even on marathon) so thats 1 extra gold/turn/religion + bonus

i say thats worth it.

disagree

specially if you have captured some nice holy cities and they have finished their markets, grocers and banks. spreading the goods can really save yr economy in late game. and by then you build missio's in 1 turn most of the time. (even on marathon) so thats 1 extra gold/turn/religion + bonus

i say thats worth it.

For obvious reasons, I always build WS in my holy city. That's an extra 3 gpt (rather than 1) for each spread. Plus, ppl forget the culture aspect. I often find myself fighting culture wars over terrain, and need the extra culture from a cathedral.

For obvious reasons, I always build WS in my holy city. That's an extra 3 gpt (rather than 1) for each spread. Plus, ppl forget the culture aspect. I often find myself fighting culture wars over terrain, and need the extra culture from a cathedral.

yup, i build WS there too, but during the game you will have several holy cities if all goes well.

more reasons to keep spreading :)

there is also the happiness. If you have a good cereal mills or sushi corp going with like >+20 food, cities will grow huge. having for instance 5 religions in the city is 5 temples, and with free religion thats 10 happy faces which you'll need in cities with size 40. especially during wartime.

I have been playing the current gauntlet non-stop lately (Deity, Cultural ...) and I recently had a monastery dilemma. I needed to both spread several religions ASAP so that I could get temples and Caths. going but at the same time I needed to keep pumping out GAs. So I'm in Pacifism and can either build monasteries to build the missionaries or switch to OR take the anarchy hit and get the missionaries without wasting the build time on monasteries and still keep getting the pacifism bonus.

It was a tough decision but I went with building the monasteries. Inevitably I lost anyway.

So what are your thoughts? Did I make the right choice?

Going with the monastaries is a better option IF.
1. Not spiritual (otherwise free switch)
2. Not philosophical (only a 50/33% loss in GPP)
3. Less than 1/3rd of your cities will be pumping those missionaries (2 lost turn is too high, in and out cost)
4. Anarchy for civ switch 2 turns+ (Standard speed)
5. The AP matches the monastary religion
6. You have one or more of, The Sistine chapel, the spiral minnaret, the university of sankore

I see you were going for a cultural victory. If the game was at less than 800AD then you would also be missing out on a decent chunk of culture if you bypassed monastaries

Is making monasteries not get obsolete and easy fix or does it require a lot of editing?

its a pretty easy fix.

took me just a few minutes (like 3 or so, most time is spend searching for the file, and i think its buildings.xml or something)
just replace the techname in the xml that obsoletes the building with "NONE"

and you'll have that building for life.

i did it for walls to. sure i can fire a gun, but i can also still build a wall.

Making them not obsolete (at all) is editing 1 or 2 XML files, from memory its the buildings .xml file and technologies .xml - though may just be the latter.

Making it so they just lose the +10% Research bonus would be more complex. Leaving them in game with the Research bonus with no other Tech cost changes, would skew the game quite badly.

@Stoney_the_I, yeah I recently got quite annoyed at the obsolesence of walls... I wanted to build up some more castles and could not as those cities didn't have walls yet.