According to this preview (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/sidmeierscivilizationivcolonization/news.html?sid=6193071&mode=previews), the new leaders in Colonization II are:

England
George Washington and John Adams

France
Samuel de Champlain and Louis de Buade de Frontenac

The Netherlands
Peter Stuyvesant and Adriaen van der Donck

Spain
Simon Bolivar and Jose de San Martin


For comparison, these were the leaders in the old Colonization:

England
Walter Raleigh

France
Jacques Cartier

The Netherlands
Michiel de Ruyter

Spain
Christopher Columbus


What do you think of the new choices? Assuming there will be Civ 4-style traits in Col II, what traits do you think each leader will get? This is speculative, of course, since we don't know what Col II's new traits will be (if it has any) but you can probably make some rough guesses. Washington, for instance, will likely receive some kind of military bonus.

It seems that all the new leaders are revolutionaries and the old leaders in the original are founders of the colonies...

I would like to see the originals added as well.

I would like to see the originals added as well.

I agree. I would like the original leaders to be retained.

George Washington as a Revolutionary Leader is interesting, I view him more of a general. And considering he toasted the King for a period even after the war started..

And I also do wonder why they never make a game on becoming a democracy in the non-violent way as some countries in this world, not to mention North America, did. :p

Most of those names listed, i have never heard of.
The only ones I have heard of are the English and one of the french guys

George Washington as a Revolutionary Leader is interesting, I view him more of a general. And considering he toasted the King for a period even after the war started..

Washington was the first president... and he isn't called "Father of the country" for nothing. ;) I suspect that's why they chose him. "First in war, first in peace, first in the hearts of his countrymen."

And I also do wonder why they never make a game on becoming a democracy in the non-violent way as some countries in this world, not to mention North America, did. :p

You're just too much of a monarchist, GM. :D

It seems that all the new leaders are revolutionaries and the old leaders in the original are founders of the colonies...

Quoted for truth.

I'd hope that firaxis go for historical accuracy and not their usual efforts.

It seems that all the new leaders are revolutionaries and the old leaders in the original are founders of the colonies...

Michiel de Ruyter has very little (if nothing) to do with the North-American colony of the Dutch.

Cornelis Jacobsz May was the captain of the ship New Netherlands who delivered the first boat load of colonists to New Netherlands on Governors Island in June 1624. Having so transformed the New Netherlands territory to a province, he was named the province's first director. In 1624 De Ruyter was active in Dublin for a Vlissingen-based Merchant House. His fame came much later.

Peter Stuyvesant was the last Director-General in New Amsterdam. He build the City Wall, and the Canal (which are remembered by Wall Street, Canal Street & Broadway)


In that case he is a far better person than De Ruyter

I LOVE that San Martin is a leader in Colonization. First Argentine leader in a Sid Meier game! :D

I am just curious if they will be 3D LH's Like in Civ4, or a "photo"

If they are just pictures, many people will be mad. But since it is a Civ 4 platform, I suspect they will be animated. (At least it saves Firaxis the extra work of having to do Washington again.)

And we can mod them into CIV

Michiel de Ruyter has very little (if nothing) to do with the North-American colony of the Dutch.

Cornelis Jacobsz May was the captain of the ship New Netherlands who delivered the first boat load of colonists to New Netherlands on Governors Island in June 1624. Having so transformed the New Netherlands territory to a province, he was named the province's first director. In 1624 De Ruyter was active in Dublin for a Vlissingen-based Merchant House. His fame came much later.

Peter Stuyvesant was the last Director-General in New Amsterdam. He build the City Wall, and the Canal (which are remembered by Wall Street, Canal Street & Broadway)


In that case he is a far better person than De Ruyter

Both Stuyvesant and van der Donck are not really good choices. In Dutch history both are seen as rather unimportant. I get the feeling they were only chosen because they were involved in what later would become New York.

All Dutch activity in the Americas was through the Dutch West India Company. A company that was pursuing profits above anything else (such as simple colonization). Primarly the most important activity of the WIC was the conquest of Brazil (1624-1654).

In my opinion Johan Maurits, count of Nassau Siegen and Piet Heyn would be far better choices.

Johan Maurits was the govenor of Dutch Brazil and was enlightened in the full sense of the word. He established the first representative organ in the new world. He tolerated free practice of all religions in his colony (something that was not allowed in the Dutch republic itself). He funded scientific research of natural environment in Brazil. He stimulated contact and studies of the native population. He brought Dutch painters with him who painted the first real sceneries of the new world (at location).

Stuyvesant was a repressive tyrant. Local Dutch colonists hated him and the WIC wanted to get rid of him. New Amsterdam was a little enterprise of the WIC but all its resources were going towards Brazil and the war fought against the Spanish and Portuguese there (The Dutch left in 1654 because investors thought it was a unprofitable venue. The WIC needed money but nobody wanted to invest in a expensive war anymore and it went bankrupt).

Piet Heyn conquered the Spanish silver fleet in 1628. This conquest is still celebrated in the Netherlands. This victory funded ten years of colonial expansion into the new world.

I get the feeling that Firaxis, as an American company, takes a United States point of view historically.

And we can mod them into CIV

I hope so. but we'll see what the shader 1.1 does. but I'm sure it can be exported to blender then reimported without shaders. atleast I'm hoping.

And I also do wonder why they never make a game on becoming a democracy in the non-violent way as some countries in this world, not to mention North America, did. :p
Yay Canada

There should be some sort of diplmatic victory where you join a commonwealth or something.

I sorta don't like how the only victory option inevitably leads to warfare.

I would like to see the originals added as well.
More leaders the better.

Originally Posted by allunderheaven View Post
It seems that all the new leaders are revolutionaries and the old leaders in the original are founders of the colonies...


De Champlain is definitely not a revolutionary. He was an explorer who spent a lot of time scouting Quebec and northern New England. Lake Champlain divides NY and VT and is obviously named after him.

-25
Most of those names listed, i have never heard of.
The only ones I have heard of are the English and one of the french guys

You are lucky, I only know 2 of them. George and Bolivar.

It's to bad that Christopher Columbus isn't a leaders, with him the game was more real.

(Add Portugal)

It's to bad that Christopher Columbus isn't a leaders, with him the game was more real.

Maybe he will be one of the Founding Fathers this time around. I could easily see some kind of exploration bonus connected with him.

Originally Posted by allunderheaven View Post
It seems that all the new leaders are revolutionaries and the old leaders in the original are founders of the colonies...


De Champlain is definitely not a revolutionary. He was an explorer who spent a lot of time scouting Quebec and northern New England. Lake Champlain divides NY and VT and is obviously named after him.


De Champlain also settled Quebec City 400 years ago yesterday.

Just a few months ago, HBO made a miniseries about John Adams. Each of the 7 episodes were about an hour and some, and starred Paul Giamatti and Laura Linney. Considering the marginal roles Giamatti has played, he did really good in this one. The show itself was pretty well written, and cleared up a few things in my mind. Indeed, I didn't even realize his presidency was so tumultuous because of Napoleon's activities, because he's just not that studied.

If you want someone a little more famous, though, Jefferson should be #2.

I suspect that the leaders will have as much to do with this game as they did in the original, which is to say, not a whit. People will think their nation's powers are based on their nation, not on their leaders. It's already been said that Washington's tolerance is what attracts more people to come to "New England".

The only use that could be had from having Leaders is if you can mix and match. Maybe pair Washington with Bolivar and play as the French. It would be nice if a founding nation had a bonus AND each leader had a bonus, to make such a thing notable, and such combinations worthy of consideration. I don't play games like this to repeat history (and is mainly why I choose the Dutch when playing Pirates).

Dutch choises are ok, better then M. de Ruyter (he had nothing to do with New Amsterdam)

Piet Heyn (zijn naam is klein, zijn daden groot, hij heeft gewonnen den zilver vloot) also has 0 to do with New Amsterdam

He was a pirat

I've been looking through their pictures to see if, in the case that the leaders can be modded into Civ, I could use some of those leaders.

I'm planning on Argentine and Venezuelan civs, so Adams, San Martin, and Bolivar are coming in as is.

I think I could probably add Stuy as Johan de Witt.

Dutch choises are ok, better then M. de Ruyter (he had nothing to do with New Amsterdam)

Piet Heyn (zijn naam is klein, zijn daden groot, hij heeft gewonnen den zilver vloot) also has 0 to do with New Amsterdam


Is het een Nederlandse uitdrukking ?

I remember reading that Piet Heyn's silver fleet brought a much needed boost to the Dutch economy in times of war against the Spaniards... and did much to virtually bankrupt the Spanish crown. Still, the poor lad only received a fraction of the fleet in reward (we are talking about less than 10%) which caused him to quit his pirate dayjob.

I hope so. but we'll see what the shader 1.1 does. but I'm sure it can be exported to blender then reimported without shaders. atleast I'm hoping.

Do you think it will be equally easy to import Civ leaders to Colonization? I'm already in the process of planning to mod in several colonial powers...

According to this preview (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/sidmeierscivilizationivcolonization/news.html?sid=6193071&mode=previews), the new leaders in Colonization II are:

England
George Washington and John Adams

France
Samuel de Champlain and Louis de Buade de Frontenac

The Netherlands
Peter Stuyvesant and Adriaen van der Donck

Spain
Simon Bolivar and Jose de San Martin


For comparison, these were the leaders in the old Colonization:

England
Walter Raleigh

France
Jacques Cartier

The Netherlands
Michiel de Ruyter

Spain
Christopher Columbus


What do you think of the new choices? Assuming there will be Civ 4-style traits in Col II, what traits do you think each leader will get? This is speculative, of course, since we don't know what Col II's new traits will be (if it has any) but you can probably make some rough guesses. Washington, for instance, will likely receive some kind of military bonus.

Umm i really havent read into it but i dont think john adams and george washington were british i think the word you were looking for the word america

Umm i really havent read into it but i dont think john adams and george washington were british i think the word you were looking for the word america

Well, technically, they were British up until about July of 1776. British subjects, anyway.

Yes but they were not british leaders i think they should actually use some british leaders because george washington is one of americas favorite presidents and hes british...

Umm i really havent read into it but i dont think john adams and george washington were british i think the word you were looking for the word america

They picked American leaders because they wanted colonial leaders who were revolutionaries. In that case, there is considerable gray area between "British" and "American."

For those who haven't heard of all these people, did you never play Conquest of the New World? They're all leaders on that, apart from the English/American ones. At the time, I'd never heard of them, but now all those names are familiar.

Piet Heyn (zijn naam is klein, zijn daden groot, hij heeft gewonnen den zilver vloot)
Is het een Nederlandse uitdrukking ?
Those are (more or less) the lyrics of a famous Dutch (children's0 song about Piet Heyn ("his name is small, his deeds are big, he conquered the silver fleet")

George Washington started out as a proud British officer... he really was looking up to climbing the ladder of His majesty George II's military

it was George the third.

also, the game is around declaring your independence, Washington and Adams had big parts in that.

Also Simon Bolivar is considered a founding father of most Northern South American Nations, making him also a revolutionary leader.

The french and dutch didnt have Major American Colonies long enough for them to go through revolution.

just saying

it was George the third.

also, the game is around declaring your independence, Washington and Adams had big parts in that.

Also Simon Bolivar is considered a founding father of most Northern South American Nations, making him also a revolutionary leader.

The french and dutch didnt have Major American Colonies long enough for them to go through revolution.

just saying

George the IInd in the major part of the Seven Years War.

Let's play some Jeopardy. And what is Haiti ? Answer : French sugar-cane colony who revolted against France's rule in 1794.

I like the idea of having the new and old leaders.

I really hope they have animated leaderheads. I hate it when i play a mod with unanimated LD's, and a still life photograph pops up on the screen.(espesially when it's one of those where the eyes follow you. those are just plain creepy!!:cry:)

[/QUOTE]Let's play some Jeopardy. And what is Haiti ? Answer : French sugar-cane colony who revolted against France's rule in 1794.[/QUOTE]

Answer: What is a French sugar-cane colony who revolted against France's rule in 1794? :lol:

(my 100th post!!!!!!)

I hope they redo Washington's model. Civ4's is fine and all, but, dunno, it'd look lazy if they left him like that. They redid everyone in CivRev after all!

I hope they redo Washington's model. Civ4's is fine and all, but, dunno, it'd look lazy if they left him like that. They redid everyone in CivRev after all!

You know, I had not really thought about that. Since the graphics version is different in Colonization, there is a distinct possibility that Washington might be re-done, or at least improved.

I wonder if we could mod in Portugal...

I wonder if we could mod in Portugal...
The game will probably be as customizable as Civ4, so you could probably mod in even the Martians, if you wanted. Rayguns vs. muskets! :p

I get the feeling that Firaxis, as an American company, takes a United States point of view historically.


Agreed - Speaking as an Englishman, Washington and Adams mean very little to me as "English" leaders.

It's pretty clear they used revolutionaries wherever possible. The French and Dutch leaders aren't due to the fact their colonies didn't have revolutions like the English and Spanish did.

Bolívar and San Martín weren't born in Spain, just like Washington and Adams weren't born in England.

George the IInd in the major part of the Seven Years War.

Let's play some Jeopardy. And what is Haiti ? Answer : French sugar-cane colony who revolted against France's rule in 1794.


Toussaint Loverture would have been a great choice, but he just didn't form something that changed the world

Sure it was notable that a slave took control of a french colony, but ihe was then killed soon afterward. They probably want a leader who is a notable figurehead in that place, and that place covering a large portion of land, not one that is an Island in the carribean.

It seems that all the new leaders are revolutionaries and the old leaders in the original are founders of the colonies...

I'll add my two cents for the leaders of New-France. While Jacques Cartier "discovered" and explored the St-Lawrence and met natives during his trips, the choice of Samuel de Champlain has a leader is great. Champlain founded Québec (city) four hundred years ago this very year, explored the continent, traded and had extensive diplomatic relations with the natives, ect. He's a terrific choice. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_de_Champlain)

Frontenac was governor of New-France in the late 17th century and is famous for his military campaigns against the Iroquois and his defense of Québec against a british invasion. When asked to surrender he replied: "

I have no reply to make to your general other than from the mouths of my cannons and muskets."

He was gansta.

I would have chosen Vaudreuil(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_François_de_Rigaud%2C_Marquis_de_Vaudreuil-Cavagnal) and d'Iberville(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Le_Moyne_d'Iberville) as far as French leaders go. They were both born in New France, and the second one accomplished quite some feats... They can be perceived as pure colonial heroes like the Americans had.

Interesting choices. Vaudreuil was good and was indeed a product of Nouvelle-France. His clashes with Montcalm are epic. I would approve of him if he wasn't the governor who surrendered to the British in 1760. I'd rather have someone who's not identified as the last governor. Iberville's achievements are numerous but I don't think he has the same prestige as Champlai, Frontenac or even Vaudreuil. I hope they will be in the game as members of the continental congress or some sort of great leaders.

no discussion on the leaderhead graphics we now can see? i'm hoping the new natives will be animated

...i'm hoping the new natives will be animated
I'm fairly certain they will be. They look like models, and there's no point in making models if you're going to use a still picture, at least in this game. Plus, there's Montezuma, Huayna Capac and Sitting Bull, which are quite similar to their Civ4 counterparts.

Not only that, but we got Mangas Coloradas of the Apache... do you think Hiawatha could be in the game?

Because that was a-historical for the time-frame of the game.

A coop victory goal where you score with your patron country would be a good alternate victory though.

George Washington as a Revolutionary Leader is interesting, I view him more of a general. And considering he toasted the King for a period even after the war started..

And I also do wonder why they never make a game on becoming a democracy in the non-violent way as some countries in this world, not to mention North America, did. :p