(Preview #1 here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=278304))
(Preview #2 here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=279623))

Let's see how the RFC RAND world looks like.

The biggest priority is to ensure that the world contains all the civs at the same time.
Randomly generated maps usually fail, because their % of land is very low (the huge size can contain up to 11 civs), unless the size is exaggerately big.

This is the typical result of the Terra mapscript:
http://rhye.civfanatics.net/civ4/RAND/terra.jpg
The ocean is 20 or more tiles wide.

RFC uses a different script, based on Terra, but that ensures that water coverage is limited to 60-65%.
A parameter called "Earth likelihood" (is it grammatically correct?) sets how much the world generated is similar to the Earth or more random.
Eventually, an algorithm checks that the two biggest groups of continents are separated by at least 5-6 water tiles.

http://rhye.civfanatics.net/civ4/RAND/RFCterra.jpg

This screenshot not only shows the landmasses. A few comments can be added:
- Oceans are enough big to separate the two "worlds"
- Terrains are disposed as shown in preview #1: big areas
- The equator isn't actually centered, but in this case, it's more southwards. Because of this fact, the (in this case) northern hemisphere is more comfortable (except for tundra and marshes), while the southern one offers a lot of jungle and desert
- This map is actually smaller than the one in the first screenshot!

Can't wait to play it, great job :goodjob:

Looking great. Cant wait to get it :)

Deffinately looking good.

Smaller "world"-separating oceans, and proportionally more land sounds fantastic to me. Keep up the awesome work :D

Looks amazing Rhye, I'm as excited for this as I was for RFC in BtS!

Are we still going to have the same continents as in the real world? (e.g. no European civ cities in South America for Inca)

looks very promising :)

Looks great!

I really think that you should do an sprit that make a "crosspoint" between continents, so just the new world civs will be alone... and Turkey should spawn right in that crosspoint!

But i am liking it so far, awesome :D

You have just proven the falsity of every single monotheistic religion in which god is not you, Rhye.

All hail Rye!

Also, may I suggest that plains form a buffer zone between tundra and grassland on the earth-like map. I can't think of anywhere on Earth where you go suddenly from very fertile food-crop-producing land (grassland) to snow-covered which can barely support a settled population (tundra).

In answer to the grammar question, 'Earth likeness' is better than 'Earth likelihood'.

Also, may I suggest that plains form a buffer zone between tundra and grassland on the earth-like map. I can't think of anywhere on Earth where you go suddenly from very fertile food-crop-producing land (grassland) to snow-covered which can barely support a settled population (tundra).


Tundra isn't snow covered: at least in the Earth map, it's the buffer zone between grass and snow, no?

Tundra isn't snow covered: at least in the Earth map, it's the buffer zone between grass and snow, no?

Well, snow-covered for a large part of the year at least :). The point was just that tundra = bad farming land due to the cold climate; the land next to tundra shouldn't be of the most fertile kind realistically.

It looks good, but why does the Old World continents are seperated by ocean? they can't reach each-other until optics (or by the Leif Erikson exploit).

It looks good, but why does the Old World continents are seperated by ocean? they can't reach each-other until optics (or by the Leif Erikson exploit).

If I remember right, civs from different continents continents don't have a lot to do with each other directly in RFC before Optics anyway, with the exceptions of Persia, Carthage, Egypt, the Mongols, and the Arabs. Even in those cases most of what happens is in the pursuit of UHVs which (I think?) won't be in RFCRAND.

I think it'll be OK, generally speaking (unless you're going for an Empty Earth Challenge, then you just get to suck it up and try harder!).

Of course, I haven't played Civ at all in a year now, and might be saying something controversial :)

Will the civs be tuned to certain land types? e.g. will we see Arabia in a desert, Brits on an island etc.?

Can't wait to play!

It looks good, but why does the Old World continents are seperated by ocean? they can't reach each-other until optics (or by the Leif Erikson exploit).

It's just a case. Sometimes they are attached. A thin line of ocean is passable anyway (it just has to be within borders)

Will the civs be tuned to certain land types? e.g. will we see Arabia in a desert, Brits on an island etc.?

This is something for the next preview

It's just a case. Sometimes they are attached. A thin line of ocean is passable anyway (it just has to be within borders)



This is something for the next preview

...AWESOME :D

Rhye, you're amazing.

I presume this game will still have UHVs, but they will have to be massively overhauled, surely?

I presume this game will still have UHVs, but they will have to be massively overhauled, surely?

I think it was decided not to put in UHVs. But that was over a year ago, so Rhye might have changed his mind.

Plus, we could always mod them in, though it may be quite a challenge.

Maybe UHV could be implemented, with a few simplifications regarding territorial objectives, such as :
- Control x% of land size
- Found x colonies in other continents
- Be the first to found a colony in the new world
- No other civilizations in your own continent
- Vassalize and/or destroy x civilizations
- ...

For religious, builder, cultural, demographic, financial, scientifics and ressources objectives, they could be kept as they are. Actually, most of the UHVs could be directly implemented without modifications.

It would be quite a shame to play Rhye's and Fall with the so ordinary victory conditions.

But it could also be a good opportunity to introduce new ones, not related to geography. Can anyone post all the UHVs which related ot geography (i cant access Civ from here)?

http://wikirhye.wikidot.com/start

This link should help you.

OK, ones that would have to be changed, due to being linked to Earth map

China - No city lost to barbarians or to Mongols before 1400 AD - How about build 3 Gorges and Apollo prog by certain date?

Babylon - Make Babylon the most populous city in the world in 700 BC - not really viable on a random map. Open to suggestions, I odnt know enough about Babylonian history to suggest

Carthage - Secure 3 dye resources by 350 AD - Maybe something to do with having Carthage linked to road to 3 cities? Control 5 coastal cities in the Mediterranean in 350 AD - Make it 7 Coastal cities instead? Control a certain number of water tiles?

Rome - Control in 450 AD all the area historically comprehended in the Western Roman Empire - Build AP?

Japan - No foreign culture in any plot of Honshu (Japanese main island) in 1700 AD - See Japanese UHV thread

Ethiopia - No European colonies in east and subequatorial Africa in 1500 AD
No European colonies in east and subequatorial Africa in 1910 AD - Allow no enemy soldiers on your soil for more than 3 turns (reflecting their long standing sovereignty)

Vikings - Be the first to found a city in America - First to found a city at least half way around the world from your capital?

Arabs - Control or make vassal states of Egypt, Spain and Carthage by 1300 AD - Never allow European or American soldiers on Arab soil?

Spain - Be the first to found a city in America - Have an explorer pop at least 7 goody huts?

No English, or French, or Dutch cities in the Americas in 1700 AD - Same, but with any cities on any other cotinent than their own

Control Aztec and Incan territory in 1760 AD - control at least 3 cities founded by Aztecs and Incas by 1830

France - Colonize Quebec, the Hudson Bay and Louisiana by 1760 AD - Capture Moscow and hold it for 15 turns

Germany - Control Greece, Rome and France in 1870 AD - 3 cities founded by each in same time frame?

Control England, Scandinavia and Russia in 1940 AD - Have an army of 35 Panzers by the year ___

Russia - Colonize Siberia by 1700 AD - Force at least two European civs to adopt State Property by year ___

Netherlands - Be the first to found a city in Australia - Be first to adopt free market?

Secure or get by trade 7 spices resources by 1775 AD - No ideas

Inca - No European colonies in South America (except Brazil) in 1600 AD , No European colonies in South America (except Brazil) in 1800 AD - No ideas

Mongolia - Control China by 1300 AD - Capture at least one city at least 20 tiles away from your capital by year ____

Aztecs - No European colonies in Central America and Southern United States in 1700 AD - Lose no more than ___ units to plague

Turkey - Control the Bosporus (the Istanbul Strait) by 1500 AD - Build Hagia Sophia by year ___

Control the Balkans, the Black Sea and Mesopotamia in 1700 AD - no ideas

US - No European colonies in the whole American continent in 1900 AD - Produce more hammers than all European civs by year ___

Rome - Control in 450 AD all the area historically comprehended in the Western Roman Empire - Build AP?


Maybe it could be something like having the biggest territory in the world/continent (the former might be too hard) by AD 120. It'd also force us to do it through conquest if they spawn in a crowded area, which would be neat.

US - No European colonies in the whole American continent in 1900 AD - Produce more hammers than all European civs by year ___

Wouldn't that have the same problem as the Babylonian UHV?

Wouldn't that have the same problem as the Babylonian UHV?


Yeah, true. Maybe something to do with aircraft carriers?

I see an exploit coming with that Viking suggestion and for Rome how about have the largest empire in the world in 450 A.D.

More comments to come later but must leave now.

As I've said, these were just proposals off the top of my head, I'd love to hear suggestions on how to improve them or even alternate ideas

China- Never collapse(China was constantly changing ruling families so maybe this could be a What If UHV) or build 3 gorges dam and control 25% of worlds population by 2000. Maybe even just lose no cities to barbarians.

Babylon-Build the Hanging Gardens by 600 B.C.

Carthage-Control 7 coastal citys sound good and maybe conquer one civ by 150 B.C.(Punic wars)

Rome-Have the largest empire landwise/be the closest civ to a domination win by 450 A.D.

Japan-See Japanese UHV thread.

Ethiopia-Allow no enemy soldiers on your soil for more than 3 turns (reflecting their long standing sovereignty) sounds good.

Vikings-Be the first civ to found a city on a continent seperated from yours by ocean tiles.

Arabia-Have 4 or 3(your call) vassals by 1300 A.D or be the highest in score in 1300 A.D.

Spain-found 13 colonies on seperate continents or RedRalphWiggums idea. Control the core areas of two civs native to a foreign continent by 1760. No cities on any other cotinent than their own.

France-Found 6 cities on another continent that is seperated from yours by ocean tiles by 1760.

Germany-control 3 civs core areas by 1870. Panzers idea sounds awesome and goes with tech goal.

Russia-Be the largest civ in the world landwise in 1700 A.D.

Netherlands-I don't see why the spices one won't work unless there aren't 7 spice resources in the whole RFC Random world which isn't very likely but might occasionally happen. Be the first to adopt free market sounds good. Build 20-30 East Indiamen by 1700/1800 A.D.?

Inca-No colonies on home continent in 1600 and 1800 A.D.

Mongolia-Control all of the nearest civ's territory by 1300 A.D.

Aztecs-Have 3 vassals in 1500 A.D.(surrounding tribes) or no colonies on their home continent in 1700 A.D.

Turkey-Control the nearest civs capital by 1500 A.D.Control three civs core areas by 1700 A.D.

America-Control your entire home continent in 1900 or no foreign civ's cities in the home continent in 1900.

Netherlands-I don't see why the spices one won't work unless there aren't 7 spice resources in the whole RFC Random world which isn't very likely but might occasionally happen. Be the first to adopt free market sounds good. Build 20-30 East Indiamen by 1700/1800 A.D.?

How about:
Netherlands - build Trading Company by 1600AD (or perhaps some other more appropriate date)

1600 AD is good since the VOC was founded in 1602.

Some other suggestions:

Persia: Have 2 vassals by 300 BC

Rome: Capture 4 cities by 100 AD

Arabia: Don't loose a holy city until 1500 AD (you have to control one either, otherwise it will be too easy)

Inca: Control your continent for 50 % at 1600 AD

England: Be the first to settle / control a city in every continent larger than 20 tiles.

Yeah the trading company one for Holland is a good idea. but bear in mind Metal Alloy Man that there will be no core areas (unless I'm missing something) so the turk one would be unworkable. but I like the Babylonian and Chinese suggestions

I thought spawn areas were considered core areas and RFC random will have spawn areas right? We need them to make re-spawns possible and RFC just wouldn't feel right without re-spawns.

Instead of fixed goals, why not randomly generate 3 uhv conditions? To quote myself:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6411778&postcount=1

AP, i like that idea. Would make every game's goals unique. The UHV conditions could either be introduced at the beginning of the game, or present themselves as quests that must be accomplished for the victory.

The only problem is this would be very complicated though it is by far the best idea so far. I'd absolutely love if it could be implemented. The question is do we want to do it like Random Events where there are several set events that have a chance of happening every turn or do we want there to be a random generator that generates these, somewhat like in AnotherPacifists post. The first one is much easier to implement so I suggest we use it and imitate the random events system. Now we need ideas for "UHV's"(I wouldn't really call them UHV's anymore, more like UV's[Unique Victory] anyone?

P.S. Yes I know quite a few were suggested in AnotherPacifists post, but for system one to work I don't think we can have any variables, correct me if I'm wrong.

I think we need more details on the basic mechanics of the game before going into detail (how will spawns/re-spawns work and core areas and the like).

Plus I suspect that guy Rhye might have some ideas :P

Russia :
- Built the Kremlin
- Be the largest civ by 1950
- be the first to discover Satellites (beep, beep, beep)

Carthago:

-Control 5 Coastal Cities by 150 BC ??
-Be the first to circumnavigate
-Defeat Rome (no specific date)
(I assume that also in the random world the civs that are close to each other on the earth map, will be close to each other)

This could also be the UHV for Rhyes on Earth Map.

with RFC random, there is no more reason to exclude Italy.
Leader: Yoda Andreotti and Testa d'Asfalto (Asphalted Head, AKA Silvio B.)
UB: Recycling Square (Replaces Recycling Center and creates the new resource -trash- which is used by the new Mafia corporation).
UU: Turist (Combustion, 0 strength, 2 moves). Has a small chance to cause civil unrest if it spends a turn in foreign cities.
UHV:
1- be the first civ into Renaissance
2- own the three most cultural cities in 1527 (or build Colosseum, Leaning Tower and Sistine Chapel by 1483).
3- found the corporation Mafia and spread it to every other civ still in the game by 1930.

Plus I suspect that guy Rhye might have some ideas :P

Clever Umarth, that's probably why he hasn't responded to any of our ideas yet.

I am a bit confused, will this be a patch for RFC or a new mod or "expansion" of sorts?

I love what i see.

with RFC random, there is no more reason to exclude Italy.
Leader: Yoda Andreotti and Testa d'Asfalto (Asphalted Head, AKA Silvio B.)
UB: Recycling Square (Replaces Recycling Center and creates the new resource -trash- which is used by the new Mafia corporation).
UU: Turist (Combustion, 0 strength, 2 moves). Has a small chance to cause civil unrest if it spends a turn in foreign cities.
UHV:
1- be the first civ into Renaissance
2- own the three most cultural cities in 1527 (or build Colosseum, Leaning Tower and Sistine Chapel by 1483).
3- found the corporation Mafia and spread it to every other civ still in the game by 1930.

:goodjob:
When Mass Media is disovered, the dynamic name could switch to "Empire of Freedoms" or "Berlusconia", or "Banana Republic of Italy"; depending on the government type

I am a bit confused, will this be a patch for RFC or a new mod or "expansion" of sorts?

I love what i see.

Let's call it "a stand alone expansion"

Rhye, you read to much colonization reviews (will there be a Rhye's and fall of colonization?)

after Colonization comes out you mean? I don't know, we'll see.

Surely not for its release, as I'm out of the group of Firaxis testers.