Okay, I have Map Finder now. I have searched the forums and can't seem to find a good tutorial on how to use it. Can some one please point me to a thread that breaks down the finer points of the Map Finder plug in?

Here's what I was able to figure out on my own:

1. Open Map Finder from the desktop. From the file menu, choose Rule Builder.

2. In the Rule Builder, you will see several pre-made groups, with rules in each group. Later, when you run Map Finder in Civ4, Map Finder will save any start that meets all of the rules specified in a group. You can Add/Delete groups and rules with the buttons on the right. If you click on a rule, you can change that rule using the drop down menus at the bottom. You can make a rule to look for a certain number of flood plains, or freshwater corn, or pasture resources, etc... Be sure to specify the Min and Max of that type of tile/resource you're looking for. After you've built all of the groups you want Map Finder to look for, save your changes.

3. Close Map Finder and start up Civ4. Start up a game with your desired settings. After the game begins, press Alt-M to start Map Finder. You should see the game begin to Regenerate the map, over and over again. It will keep a running count of how many games it has regenerated, and how many of those it has saved (because it fit one of your groups). You can change the maximum number of regenerations and the speed of regeneration in the Options menu, HOF3 tab. Let it run for a while (unfortunately, it wont run in the background). When you want to take a look at the saved starts, press Alt-X and quit Civ4.

4. Open Map Finder from the desktop again. Click on the Civ Version Menu and choose the Civ version you are using. The saved games should display in the rows below the resource icons. You'll be able to see a screenshot, and the table will list the resources that appear in the shot. If you're ready to play one of the saves, you can rename the weird file name and move it to a desired folder.

Thanks, I'll give that a try.

Try this FAQ thread, it has a Map Finder section: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=260678

Thanks for the help. I figured out how to work most of the functions in Map Finder now.

For some reason the preview pane is always black when looking at the maps that have been saved. I can read what resources are present and statistical information about the number of various tile types, but I can't see the saved map start location unless I start a game. I think that the map finder is not moving the viewable area when it regenterates so I am seening the fog of war in the location where origional the start location was before turning on map finder.

Is there a setting that I can change that might fix this?

Thanks for the help. I figured out how to work most of the functions in Map Finder now.

For some reason the preview pane is always black when looking at the maps that have been saved. I can read what resources are present and statistical information about the number of various tile types, but I can't see the saved map start location unless I start a game. I think that the map finder is not moving the viewable area when it regenterates so I am seening the fog of war in the location where origional the start location was before turning on map finder.

Is there a setting that I can change that might fix this?

You could try slowing down the regeneration speed (in the HOF3 tab). Maybe the regeneration is happening too fast to move the viewable area to the new starting location.

I have a really strange issue with mapfinder.

I can run it and modify rules etc. but when I run the mapfinder from inside civ4 (bts) it loads the default rules every time, and save starts accordingly.

I did change the rule "path" to the one I wished to use and in the text that is shown when mapfinder is initiated it claims to load my rule file. Still, mapfinder only refers to the default rules when it evaluates a startlocation.

I have even tried to overwrite the default rules with my own set of rules with no change in behavior. When I deleted the default rules then MF didnt function at all.

Anyone got any tips?

EDIT: After having reinstalled and used an older version messed with many things it seems to work for now. No clue what fixed it...

I have a really strange issue with mapfinder.

I can run it and modify rules etc. but when I run the mapfinder from inside civ4 (bts) it loads the default rules every time, and save starts accordingly.

I did change the rule "path" to the one I wished to use and in the text that is shown when mapfinder is initiated it claims to load my rule file. Still, mapfinder only refers to the default rules when it evaluates a startlocation.

I have even tried to overwrite the default rules with my own set of rules with no change in behavior. When I deleted the default rules then MF didnt function at all.

Anyone got any tips?

EDIT: After having reinstalled and used an older version messed with many things it seems to work for now. No clue what fixed it...

Have you tried to "update rule-path" inside of MapFinder? This works for me :)

I have a really strange issue with mapfinder.

I can run it and modify rules etc. but when I run the mapfinder from inside civ4 (bts) it loads the default rules every time, and save starts accordingly.

I did change the rule "path" to the one I wished to use and in the text that is shown when mapfinder is initiated it claims to load my rule file. Still, mapfinder only refers to the default rules when it evaluates a startlocation.

I have even tried to overwrite the default rules with my own set of rules with no change in behavior. When I deleted the default rules then MF didnt function at all.

Anyone got any tips?

EDIT: After having reinstalled and used an older version messed with many things it seems to work for now. No clue what fixed it...

Have you tried to "update rule-path" inside of MapFinder? This works for me :)

I had to use a really strange python function to get it to loop across regenerations. No matter what I tried, I never succeeded in getting it to read a another rules file once Civ4 starts. So if you want to change a rule file you must exit Civ4 for the change to take effect.

Here is an interesting screenshot of my mapfinder not showing a proper screen grab of the starting location.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii295/Mesix_Orion/MapFinder.jpg

Who is that with all the records there?

You can't run Civ4 minimized or in the background when using map finder (Alt-X). It takes a screenshot of the desktop.

It's not minimized. Civ IV is running full screen mode and I can watch the maps as they generate. Map finder displays this (or whatever is on my desktop) after Civ IV is finished generating maps. Unclethrill's computer does the same thing and the only two things our computers have in common are Vista and the nVidia 8600M graphics card.

It doesn't matter if Civ IV is the only application running or if there are other things up (like Map Finder and Internet Exploder as in the screen shot). Map finder takes a screen shot of whatever is on the desktop behind Civ IV running with the startup bar for Civ IV in the middle of the screen.

It would be nice to get it working properly, but it really isn't that big of a deal. It still generates plenty of maps for me to use. I just have to sift through the results reading the displayed statistics.

Are you running in full screen mode? Someone had a problem with windowed mode and screenshots at one point. I think the power options was the fix there but you never know you might have found a new one.

I believe that the screenshots are taken by a freeware code/app that Dianthus added to the DLL. I will have to see if there is an updated version that has support for Vista.

I have the same problem with the screenshots. Also running Vista. Anyone found a solution for this issue?

And I have an other problem with the mapfinder. It stops regeneration randomly. Sometimes after 2 or 3 regeneration. Any idea?

It will stop regenerating if two civs are in contact. There is a bug where the contact is not cleared properly. There should be a message saying it cannot continue. Check the log if you miss it.

Dennis, thank you for the answer. I looked in the mapfinder folder but can't find a log file there. Can you tell me, where the log is located?

Dennis, thank you for the answer. I looked in the mapfinder folder but can't find a log file there. Can you tell me, where the log is located?Sorry, I was talking about the in-game log. If you miss the messages on the screen you can see them in the in-game log screen. Once you close the game they are gone.

So if you want to change a rule file you must exit Civ4 for the change to take effect.I'm trying to understand how the rulebilder works, does this mean that I have to restart Civ every time i want to test a new rule?

If so, it could be a good idea to add a notice about this in the FAQ :)

I have tried to use Alt-X, change rule and then Alt-m and it doesn't works so I will now try to restart Civ after changing rules.

After installing BtS i have a problem with mapfinder: I start it via Alt+m andf it regenerates the map once. However, then it does nothing anymore.

It is still running, because alt+x still deactivates it, but it does not regenerate the map anymore. I already tried setting the delay to 1, but that doesn't change anything either. I also already installed the newest version of map finder and the latest HoF patch.

Does anyone have an idea how to solve this?

Edit: Never mind, for some reason it works now... strange, but problem solved.

Is this legal in HOF games, given your playing with knowledge of the map your using?

Is this legal in HOF games, given your playing with knowledge of the map your using?Since Map Finder is a feature of the HOF Mod, I think you can assume that it is legal. :mischief:

Seriously, the only information you get on a map is what you can see when you generate the map. (i.e. only visible tiles) All Map Finder does is take the tedium out of generating a lot of starts looking a good starting position. It levels the playing field for those that don't have a lot of time to do that.

Since Map Finder is a feature of the HOF Mod, I think you can assume that it is legal. :mischief:

Seriously, the only information you get on a map is what you can see when you generate the map. (i.e. only visible tiles) All Map Finder does is take the tedium out of generating a lot of starts looking a good starting position. It levels the playing field for those that don't have a lot of time to do that.

Or you could say it tilts the playing field against those who don't know what a good start should have in it. :eek:

Or you could say it tilts the playing field against those who don't know what a good start should have in it. :eek:Ah, but that is what Civfanatics is all about. All you have to do is ask. :D

Are you running in full screen mode? Someone had a problem with windowed mode and screenshots at one point. I think the power options was the fix there but you never know you might have found a new one.

I believe that the screenshots are taken by a freeware code/app that Dianthus added to the DLL. I will have to see if there is an updated version that has support for Vista.

Hello,

I have the same problem with Mapfinder on Vistas. The Screenshot comes from the Desktop. Game is running in full screen mode. Is there a solution now for this problem?

I'm trying to understand how the rulebilder works, does this mean that I have to restart Civ every time i want to test a new rule?

If so, it could be a good idea to add a notice about this in the FAQ :)

I have tried to use Alt-X, change rule and then Alt-m and it doesn't works so I will now try to restart Civ after changing rules.

Yes. Civ 4 has to be restarted after a change in rules.

Hello,

I have the same problem with Mapfinder on Vistas. The Screenshot comes from the Desktop. Game is running in full screen mode. Is there a solution now for this problem?There may have been something but I don't remember what it was maybe someone with the isssue can post about it.

I believe that running civ4 in windowed mode is a workaround.

There may have been something but I don't remember what it was maybe someone with the isssue can post about it.

I believe that running civ4 in windowed mode is a workaround.

Installing XP worked for me. It is a wonderful workaround for most of the problems caused by vista.

Can I use map finder to find "hidden" resources like aluminium, iron, copper (like I do for marble, stone etc.) for ancient starter (OCC) or is that only an option for future start?

Map finder will only find resources that are visible at the start of the game. In an ancient start, the only mining resources that are available are gold, silver, and gems. In later era starts, additional resources (copper, iron, etc.) will be visible based on the techs of that starting era.

While I was running mapfinder, it suddenly displayed a "you have been defeated" and then shut down. Why would this happen?

While I was running mapfinder, it suddenly displayed a "you have been defeated" and then shut down. Why would this happen?I guess it was a REALLY bad position. :mischief:

Seriously, I wouldn't have thought that was possible. There is no code to shutdown Civ4 in the HOF Mod. Even when you lose a game you still have to exit the game manually. If I had to guess, you must have run into an error handling routine in the exe somewhere.

I guess it was a REALLY bad position. :mischief:

Seriously, I wouldn't have thought that was possible. There is no code to shutdown Civ4 in the HOF Mod. Even when you lose a game you still have to exit the game manually. If I had to guess, you must have run into an error handling routine in the exe somewhere.

It didn't shut down Civ IV, but did force me to exit to the main menu. It did this once after generating 100 or so maps and then again after only 37?! Of course, it also went all the way to 1000 too. Wierd.

It didn't shut down Civ IV, but did force me to exit to the main menu. It did this once after generating 100 or so maps and then again after only 37?! Of course, it also went all the way to 1000 too. Wierd.
Well if it had said unable to regenerate or something like that then that would make sense. Sometimes two civs will be set up sight of each other. Civ4 doesn't clear the contact info properly when you regenerate. The HOF Mod doesn't allow you to continue to regenerate when that happens.

Ah....Thanks! Just damn bad luck.

On the plus side, I can now run Map finder completely in Linux!!!

I just ran mapfinder overnight (got 85 saves to look at!). So, did the usual think of taking a peek at the jpgs via file explorer. The first 6 show the save as expected but saves 7 to 85 are identical pictures as #6. The file size is the same, the pic is the same. It looks like the image got stuck somehow.

BTW: running vista. I've used MF in the past and never had this problem.

I just ran mapfinder overnight (got 85 saves to look at!). So, did the usual think of taking a peek at the jpgs via file explorer. The first 6 show the save as expected but saves 7 to 85 are identical pictures as #6. The file size is the same, the pic is the same. It looks like the image got stuck somehow.

BTW: running vista. I've used MF in the past and never had this problem.Nevermind. :blush:

oh well - no problem. I think the save games are different so I will just have to check each manually.

Thanks Denniz.

I had this problem as well. The jpgs were all the same but the game info as seen in map finder (resource information etc) was all correct.

Well if it had said unable to regenerate or something like that then that would make sense. Sometimes two civs will be set up sight of each other. Civ4 doesn't clear the contact info properly when you regenerate. The HOF Mod doesn't allow you to continue to regenerate when that happens.

That's a bugger. No way around it but restarting the regen then? It happened on me three times in a row already and all times at less than 100 regens

I recently installed Civ IV and HOF on my family desktop computer. I get this message when trying to run Map Finder.
The application failed to initialize properly (0xc0000135). Click OK to terminate the application.

I recently installed Civ IV and HOF on my family desktop computer. I get this message when trying to run Map Finder.
The application failed to initialize properly (0xc0000135). Click OK to terminate the application.Have you installed .NET 2.0 or greater?

That was the problem. Map Finder is working now. Thanks for your help.

I'm curious what the difference is between screenshots on BTS and Vanila. I have started to run Map Finder on Vanila to get a Space Race VC, and all of the screen shots are properly displayed. As I had stated (much) earlier, BTS Map Finder displays screnshots of my desktop for some reason. Apparently, what ever causes this phenomenon with Vista is unique to BTS...at least on my POS laptop.

The Cliff's Notes digest version: Vanila and BTS screenshot behave differently in Map Finder.

Any ideas?

Not really sure why it would be different. Is that a vista PC? You might want to turn on logging to see if there are any python errors.

To get the BtS screenshots to take in Vista, you need to run Civ IV in a window, you can set this up in the .ini file. As for why it is only BtS that this happens in, I have no idea. I know the fix came from Sun Tzu Wu, maybe he knows the answer.

To get the BtS screenshots to take in Vista, you need to run Civ IV in a window, you can set this up in the .ini file. As for why it is only BtS that this happens in, I have no idea. I know the fix came from Sun Tzu Wu, maybe he knows the answer.


Ozbenno, you are absolutely correct on all points you made above.

When using MapFinder inside BtS using fullscreen mode, it generates JPGs of your desktop rather than the BtS custom screen as it should. As a work-around, just ensure that the game is being displayed on your desktop by using windowed mode. This works best when the BtS window is maximized to cover your entire desktop screen.

Just as Ozbenno described above, I modified the CivilizationIV.ini in
"C:\Users\<username>\Documents\My Games\Beyond the Sword" as follows:

; Specify whether to play in fullscreen mode 0/1/ask
FullScreen = ask

When I'm starting to BtS to run MapFinder, I select Windowed mode in the requester that pops up. When I start up BtS to play a Game, I simply select Fullscreen mode instead.

Note that MapFinder and either Vanilla or Warlords will work fine on Vista in fullscreen mode. It is only MapFinder in fullscreen BtS that has this issue with Vista.

Sorry, I don't know what causes this bug. However, the above work-around has worked very reliably for me for over a year of using MapFinder on BtS on Vista. I have heard that it also works well for other BtS players using Vista.

Sun Tzu Wu

After installing BtS i have a problem with mapfinder: I start it via Alt+m andf it regenerates the map once. However, then it does nothing anymore.

It is still running, because alt+x still deactivates it, but it does not regenerate the map anymore. I already tried setting the delay to 1, but that doesn't change anything either. I also already installed the newest version of map finder and the latest HoF patch.

Does anyone have an idea how to solve this?

Edit: Never mind, for some reason it works now... strange, but problem solved.

Well, this problem has cropped up on mine.

If I manually regenerate the map when this thing happens, then MapFinder kicks in and works again for some random time. Time between each halt seems to be about 5-10 minutes.

What map are you using. There is a bug on flat maps.

Pangaea, High.

:hmm: You may need to turn on logging to find out what is going on.

Change your CivilizationIV.ini file as below. It is in your "My Games\<expansion>" folder (i.e. "My Games\Beyond the Sword").
; Enable the logging system
LoggingEnabled = 1

; Overwrite old network and message logs
OverwriteLogs = 1

Once you encounter the problem, you can find the log files you My Games\<expansion>\logs folder. Send the ones with Python in there names to hof.civfanatics@gmail.com.

Cool, I'll do it next time I play a round of games - exam season at the mo. :)

OK, I'm sure I'm having a noob problem, but I can't get map finder to run at all.

When I installed it, there seem to be two locations specified in the instructions depending on where you look. One is C:\Program Files\Civ4_Map_Finder, the other, the default when you run the installation program is C:\Users\*name*\Documents\My Games\Civ4_Map_Finder. That is where I put it. I run Vista:(

Ok, when I start up BtS, I can hit control-alt-G and start the map finder running. I had to change the location in the options to make this work. But when I try to start up map finder directly so I can set up the rules etc. I get a small window, Registry Path Error "Cannot Find Civ4 Path". I don't see anywhere to set this up. Civ4 and the two expansions were installed in the default locations.

Any help appreciated, I hate windows and Vista in particular but am stuck with it to run Civ4.

OK, I'm sure I'm having a noob problem, but I can't get map finder to run at all.

When I installed it, there seem to be two locations specified in the instructions depending on where you look. One is C:\Program Files\Civ4_Map_Finder, the other, the default when you run the installation program is C:\Users\*name*\Documents\My Games\Civ4_Map_Finder. That is where I put it. I run Vista:(

Ok, when I start up BtS, I can hit control-alt-G and start the map finder running. I had to change the location in the options to make this work. But when I try to start up map finder directly so I can set up the rules etc. I get a small window, Registry Path Error "Cannot Find Civ4 Path". I don't see anywhere to set this up. Civ4 and the two expansions were installed in the default locations.

Any help appreciated, I hate windows and Vista in particular but am stuck with it to run Civ4.It needs to read the HOF ini file to find where you are putting the saves. You might what to download the latest MapFinder utility (1.8) as I made some changes to improve the Vista registry lookup. (32-bit registry entries are strange on 64-bit vista.) Did you have to tell it where to install? The Setup tries to find your My Games folder to install as that is the preferred location. (easier to load saves from there. ;))

Also, which version/edition of Civ4 (i.e. original cd, Gold, Complete, Steam, etc.) are you using? I haven't heard of any problems with the differences lately but sometimes they change registry keys names with the different editions. Steam has addtional complications. :crazyeye:

Ok, first I use 32 bit Vista.

Second I use the original retail CD's. I did try Steam for a bit but when the latest update removed the requirement for a CD I switched back to the CD version. I'm pretty sure I removed all traces of the steam version, I haven't had any problems until now.

Third, I'm not sure were my HOF ini file is. I installed the HOF Buffy mod into c:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods

Fourth, where do you get version 1.8? On the HOF Map Finder page the latest download is 1.7.1. I didn't have to tell it where to install the Map Finder, I used the default. I tried copying Map Finder to the \Program Files directory, but no difference.

Ah, I hadn't added v1.8 to the mods page. (I posted a link in the Buffy thread, originally pending feedback.) It is updated.

You hadn't specified BUFFY so I wasn't sure which version. If you switched back from Steam you probably didn't have any other HOF mods out there, which explains the unable to find the HOF ini file message.

BUFFY changed the ini file. It is UserSettings\MapFinder.ini. MapFinder V1.8 (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/mods/Civ4_Map_FinderV1.8_Setup.exe) will find it there now.

Sorry to be such a noob. But I can't even find a folder named UserSettings anywhere. I did download 1.8, didn't help.

update:
I did find the UserSettings folder in the BuffyMod. Looking at that now, I see the MapFinder.ini file, it has the correct path to the mapfinder in it. Is there another ini file I should be looking at?

I probably am making this statement out of total ignorance, but if the MapFinder can't find something it needs to start, shouldn't it ask for the location instead of just failing?

And just to make things clear, I am still getting the same error when I try to start mapfinder by clicking on the .exe file. "Cannot find Civ4 Path"

I assume that we start still talking about the MapFinder utility failing because it can't find the ini file. I am guessing that the Steam registry entries are still there and it is finding those. You will have to get rid of it. Try downloading a registry cleaner utiltiy if you aren't comfortable messing with the registry yourself.

Prompting for the path to the mod when the registry lookup fails didn't seem worth it when you consider how rarely it fails to find it. Coding for every eventuality is fairly time-comsuming. This isn't commercial grade software, after all. ;)

OK, finally got it working. Thanks for your help Denniz. While I am not a complete computer noob, I don't like windows so haven't tried to learn how it works. But using your hint I looked up some registry utilities, and discovered that I had not removed the steam versions of vanilla and warlords. Up to now I had only played BtS, so I hadn't run into any problems. Anyway, got MapFinder running now, so have to figure out how to use it again (I knew how a couple years ago).

My first problem was letting it run and having the screen saver or display dimmer kick in. So now I'll have to load each saved file and look at it in the Civ program. As I understand it I can load and reload the initial file as long as I don't make any movements, right? Next time I'll remember to turn off the screen saver.

As I understand it I can load and reload the initial file as long as I don't make any movements, right?

Good to see you got Map Finder working :goodjob:

You are right, you can load up any map finder saves and look at them and exit, as long as you don't make any moves (warrior/scout/settler etc.).

i just installed Map-finder on my pc and i cant get it to generate any saves by using ALT_M ingame - do i need to install another mod or am i doing something wrong?

Are you using the HOF mod (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/mod.php)? Mapfinder will only work with this mod. If you are using the latest version of the Mod (BUFFY for 3.19 BtS) the key was changed to Ctl-Alt-G to start and stop.

Nevermind.

Hi

I just installed map finder - great idea, brilliant tool.
I have one problem though. I can use Map Finder inside BTS with the newest buffy mod, but I can't see the screenshots/saves inside the map finder program. I can find them manually in the save folder.
I think it is because Map finder cannot detect BTS as I am unable to choose it inside the program (in the file menu 'version' Beyond the Sword is greyed out).
Does anyone have an idea why it is unable to detect BTS?
Is there anything I can do manually?

If not, I'll just have to check the screen shots one at a time.

Thanks
D

Oh, and it would be cool if Map Finder could make the settler build a city, so that you could see the whole area. It is after all possible to regenerate manually after having built your city.

I can't see the screenshots/saves inside the map finder program.

I (and others) had the same problem. The work around (that worked for me anyway) is to run Civ IV in windowed mode (set civ.ini to ask to run in full screen or windowed mode) while running map finder and when you're playing the game run in full screen.

OK, I have re-formatted my hard drive, reinstalled everything, CivIV, Warlord, BTS, using the "buffy" HOF mod, etc. etc. Everything works fine.
When I press [Alt]-[m] in the game to start map finder, I get this thing asking me to tell it in how many turns do I want an alarm to go off.

I apologize if this has been covered already.

Also, I tried to install the .net 2.0 thing, but got an error because I already have later versions than that installed.

The map finder program seems to work fine, but I can't activate it when in the game.

OK, I have re-formatted my hard drive, reinstalled everything, CivIV, Warlord, BTS, using the "buffy" HOF mod, etc. etc. Everything works fine.
When I press [Alt]-[m] in the game to start map finder, I get this thing asking me to tell it in how many turns do I want an alarm to go off.

I apologize if this has been covered already.


Map Finder now both starts/stops via pressing the CTRL-ALT-G key combination.


Also, I tried to install the .net 2.0 thing, but got an error because I already have later versions than that installed.

The map finder program seems to work fine, but I can't activate it when in the game.


Newer versions of .NET should work fine. Denniz or another staff person please confirm.

Sun Tzu Wu

Map Finder now both starts/stops via pressing the CTRL-ALT-G key combination.Correct. I think EF changed things a bit for the uncoming .002 release. Did you check out the Beta to see if that's in there? The latest (Beta2) is out there now. (see the beta thread.)


Newer versions of .NET should work fine. Denniz or another staff person please confirm.Also, correct. The requirement on the mod page says "Microsoft .NET Framework Version 2.0 or higher is required for this version."

Don't know where to post this...

I find MF really useful for the HOF like everyone but one thing bugs me. When I've chosen a game to play, I click the load button with "Move First" on and have to navigate through the directory tree every time to locate my Bts save folder, which is where I want it.

So, in a future update of MapFinder, would it be possible to have it remember your target from last time or have a setting for a default location? Please? :cool:

hi, not sure if this should be here - i've installed mapfinder to the default location (my civ4 installs are on a different hard disk), and when i load beyond the sword with buffy 002, and hit CTRL+ALT+G, i get a message saying "mapfinder path is invalid: C:\Program Files\Civ4_Map_Finder"

Anybody any ideas what i'm doing wrong?

hi, not sure if this should be here - i've installed mapfinder to the default location (my civ4 installs are on a different hard disk), and when i load beyond the sword with buffy 002, and hit CTRL+ALT+G, i get a message saying "mapfinder path is invalid: C:\Program Files\Civ4_Map_Finder"

Anybody any ideas what i'm doing wrong?

If you go into options (Ctl-Alt-O I think) and select the map tab. You'll find a section where the directory that Buffy thinks Map Finder is installed in. Just put the correct directory in here.

cheers, that's worked. :)

I generated a load of maps for the modern age so I tried to add oil to the columns displayed in the main map finder screen. When I did this, all the values in the screen disappeared, so it no longer displayed for each map how many of each resource type it contained. The boxes were all blank, but it still displayed the thumbnail view of the map.

Since I'd messed up mapfinder, I reinstalled it hoping that I'd get the proper display back, but I didn't. I deleted the old files before reinstalling and took the opportunity to download 1.8 and install that. I get thumbnails, but no values in the boxes. They are all blank. What did I do wrong? I've always been able to fix problems like this in the past by reinstalling ... :confused:

I generated a load of maps for the modern age so I tried to add oil to the columns displayed in the main map finder screen. When I did this, all the values in the screen disappeared, so it no longer displayed for each map how many of each resource type it contained. The boxes were all blank, but it still displayed the thumbnail view of the map.

Since I'd messed up mapfinder, I reinstalled it hoping that I'd get the proper display back, but I didn't. I deleted the old files before reinstalling and took the opportunity to download 1.8 and install that. I get thumbnails, but no values in the boxes. They are all blank. What did I do wrong? I've always been able to fix problems like this in the past by reinstalling ... :confused:You probably didn't remove the right folder or there is some access issue. The columns displayed are in the "MF_Grid_Controls.dat". The original file should have a datestamp of 6/17/2006. You might try finding that file to see if you have more than one copy out there.

I did as you suggested - 1 file found on my system with a datestamp of 9/17/2006. Anything else I could try? :(

I did as you suggested - 1 file found on my system with a datestamp of 9/17/2006. Anything else I could try? :(You have the original file. (I had the wrong month above.) A couple of things to try:

Try generating another save to see if that one displays the columns.
Check the text files in your save game folder. There should be one for each save with the same name as the save and the jpg. Do it have anything in it?

Could you post screenshots of what it looks like. Both the main screen and the column dialog.

I have reinstalled yet again and tried running mapfinder - no improvement unfortunately.

Here's the main screen:
240768

I wasn't sure what you meant by the column dialog - do you mean the screen where you change which columns are displayed? (Sorry for being dense). If so, that's in its default state, I haven't touched it since I upgraded to 1.8 in an effort to sort out the problem. It looks normal to me but I can post a screenshot if that's the screen you mean.

The save files are fine - the text is in the file and anyway, you can see that the values for each resource type are displayed as normal in the box on the bottom right of the main screen but, confusingly, not in the grid. The thing is that it was working absolutely normally, all the correct values were displayed fine, until I added the oil column. When I did that, all the values that had previously been shown correctly disappeared, leaving the blank boxes you can see in the screenshot. It happened immediately - I hadn't exited the program. So I wouldn't have thought that the problem lies in the .txt files generated by MapFinder? (But then, what do I know :lol: )

What I don't understand is why the problem persists despite a reinstall. I've tried reinstalling several times now with no joy so it looks as if something has changed that isn't contained within the MapFinder files. Could it be something in the .ini file for example? Or ... :confused:

I keep thinking that I must have done something really stupid, but I can't imagine what :blush: Thanks for your help Denniz

Thanks for the screenshot. I wasn't clear on what you were seeing. The column setup isn't the issue. Something else is going on. The grid is an old v6 control. Usually when people have a problem with it the program crashes. Try changing the ini file to 'GridVersion=Text'. You will lose the icons but it might start working if you use the more modern, less capable, grid.

If that doesn't work, I am not sure what to tell you. The values in the bottom right imply that there is nothing wrong with the file format as you noted. What version of Civ4 and Mod are you using?

I changed the ini file as you suggested. Instead of blank boxes, every box now shows "0" as the value :(

I've reinstalled yet again but still no joy. I am using Buffy 3.19.002. BtS is patched to 3.19.

I'm pretty sure that Misotu has found a bug in MapFinder that is caused by the comma (after July) in the file name.
In the save file, the file name is listed, followed by all of the values to go in the grid. It's a comma-separated list, and the comma in the middle of the file name is throwing it all out.


I just ran a test on my (working) copy of MapFinder and got the same result!
See:
240807

My hero :)

So ... er ... how do I fix it? :mischief:

Sounds like a bug in .002. We are planning to release .003 in a couple days. I will get the fix in there. Thanks.

Well, given what AgedOne has tried, I just did a couple of things:
a) Generated an ancient-start mapfinder save
b) Edited the game, txt & jpg file names of a modern-start game to remove the comma
c) Edited the game, txt & jpg file names of a modern-start game so the date read simply "1918-AD" with the underscores in the correct places
d) Generated a modern-start game using the default rule file rather than the oil rule file (wild, I know, but I'm getting a bit desperate)

The result was: a) Displayed the correct values in the grid :band:

BUT b, c and d are still broken :crazyeye:

What does this mean??? And why did the modern starts work fine up until the very moment that I asked mapfinder to display an oil column???

The file name is the issue. I am not sure about the timing of the display. If you had Map Finder open while generating new maps then your column change probably cause the list to update bringing the modern starts to the top.

Aha!
As I just pm'ed to Misotu, I can't tell from this description whether the contents of the txt file have been edited to match the new filenames. They must match for it to work.

The big, big mystery is why this appeared exactly as the column change was made! I can see that it would go wrong with these filenames whether the columns had been changed or not.
I can see that you uninstalled / reinstalled / upgraded MapFinder during the whole problem, Mis. Maybe the answer is in this sequence somewhere...

Doesn't really matter why the bug manifest when it did. Fixing the cause makes it moot.

@Agey: Oh, no. I didn't edit the content of the files, only the names. So that's presumably why it doesn't work.

@Denniz: I wasn't generating maps while in MapFinder and the only maps in the save directory were all modern era, all with the same settings, and all displaying absolutely fine until I changed the column setting.

As you say, fixing the cause is the key thing. But what I'm really saying is if it's the file name (and the evidence suggests that it is a problem) then why wasn't it always a problem? Why did MapFinder cope with modern maps just fine and then suddenly not cope with them if the problem is as fundamental as the filename? :confused:

Of course, if this is the fundamental problem then it would explain why reinstalling didn't fix it. But it's still a bit perplexing ...

Edited to add: Sorry Denniz, I missed your earlier post saying you'd get a fix into .003. Thanks ever so much for that :thanx:

I did a quick fix to the MapFinder VB program. There is a 1.9 version out there (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/mod.php?show=mapfinder#download) that won't be bothered by the extra comma in the text file.

Still looking into the comma in the file name itself.

Wow. Really fast work, Denniz!
That works fine.

I haven't got any old modern era Mapfinder saves for comparison purposes. Was that the problem, then - that older versions of BUFFY running MapFinder did not put the comma in the filename?

There really wasn't much to it once I looked. I changed a "<>" to a "<" in one test related the number of columns in the text file row.

I don't really know when the commas started. I have a fix for BUFFY.003 from ruff_hi so we are covered on both ends, now.

Ozbenno, you are absolutely correct on all points you made above.

When using MapFinder inside BtS using fullscreen mode, it generates JPGs of your desktop rather than the BtS custom screen as it should. As a work-around, just ensure that the game is being displayed on your desktop by using windowed mode. This works best when the BtS window is maximized to cover your entire desktop screen.

Just as Ozbenno described above, I modified the CivilizationIV.ini in
"C:\Users\<username>\Documents\My Games\Beyond the Sword" as follows:

; Specify whether to play in fullscreen mode 0/1/ask
FullScreen = ask

When I'm starting to BtS to run MapFinder, I select Windowed mode in the requester that pops up. When I start up BtS to play a Game, I simply select Fullscreen mode instead.

Note that MapFinder and either Vanilla or Warlords will work fine on Vista in fullscreen mode. It is only MapFinder in fullscreen BtS that has this issue with Vista.

Sorry, I don't know what causes this bug. However, the above work-around has worked very reliably for me for over a year of using MapFinder on BtS on Vista. I have heard that it also works well for other BtS players using Vista.

Sun Tzu Wu

I've tried setting this

; Specify whether to play in fullscreen mode 0/1/ask
FullScreen = ask

so as to run it windowed, but i never get the requester - just throws me straight into the game full screen. I'm running Windows 7 btw.

Anybody any suggestions?

Did you check that the changes were actually made (I find with Vista, unless you change the file name some changes are not made when saving). If they are, maybe you'll have to manually change the setting to 0 or 1.

Well, I've closed and reopened the file to find that they stay as i've changed them, however, they seem to overwritten when i start the game. and if i change the file name, surely the game will struggle to recognise it?

I've tried setting this

; Specify whether to play in fullscreen mode 0/1/ask
FullScreen = ask

so as to run it windowed, but i never get the requester - just throws me straight into the game full screen. I'm running Windows 7 btw.

Anybody any suggestions?


Check the Civ4 executable properties. On the Compatibility Tab, be sure that "Run this program as an administrator" is checked. (I also run from an account with Administrator privilege and it wasn't the account the system creates on first boot.)

I got the Civ4 Complete Edition running on laptop now with MS Windows 7 64-bit. I've had no issues running BtS on it. I simply followed just Step "2. Execution Permissions" of:

http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/mod.php?show=vista

The Game does write to the CivilizationIV.ini file when it runs, but it should not over-write your settings with something other than what you select in the Custom Game GUI. You need to diagnose how your ini file is being overwritten and fix that issue.

Please inform us of your progress or lack of ...

Best of luck to you!

Sun Tzu Wu

I did a quick fix to the MapFinder VB program. There is a 1.9 version out there (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/mod.php?show=mapfinder#download) that won't be bothered by the extra comma in the text file.

Hi Denniz, thanks so much for this. Have installed it, and it works perfectly. Thanks for taking the trouble to give a link to 1.9.

I'm getting the "cannot find civ4 path error" as well. Likely because the registry entries don't exist. Rather than reinstalling civ4 every time windows blows up and I format my C: drive, I just keep civ4 on a different drive.

Is there a way to point it to the civ4 directory by hand? Or can you tell me what key it's looking for and I'll edit it into my registry?

It would be great if the MapFinder doc was updated to reflect that Ctrl-Alt-G is the new way to initiate map generation (with Buffy). Maybe I missed something, but I had a surprisingly hard time to find that information.

http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/mod.php?show=mapfinder

It is still valid for Vanilla and Warlords. All the hot keys are available in the hover text within the options screens.

I am trying to set up mapfinder for a Warlords HoF game. It will not accept my save file path. It states that it is invalid. It accepts my Mapfinder path and rule file. This is the file location. It is the same for my Buffy mod.

C:\Users\Shulec\Documents\My Games\Civ4_Map_Finder\Saves

Any suggestions?

Sounds like a Windows Vista/Windows 7 issue, they can only write to subdirectories I believe.

I am trying to set up mapfinder for a Warlords HoF game. It will not accept my save file path. It states that it is invalid. It accepts my Mapfinder path and rule file. This is the file location. It is the same for my Buffy mod.

C:\Users\Shulec\Documents\My Games\Civ4_Map_Finder\Saves

Any suggestions?


That looks correct to me.

I'm using exactly the same Save Path, except my username is different:

C:\Users\<username>\Documents\My Games\Civ4_Map_Finder\Saves

I'm using an older release of the MapFinder application (stand-alone application that allows one to view previously generated MapFinder Maps). After one selects Warlords, it will verify that all MapFinder paths in the HOF Mod are valid and will correct them. It will sometimes setup the Default Rule though, which you can change by Saving the Rule file you want to use within the MapFinder application.

I use the same back rev'ed MapFinder application for both Warlords and Buffy. I have to manually edit the Buffy Mod Path, since the older rev MapFinder application doesn't know anything about the Buffy Mod, whereas the current one does. I've simply not bothered to upgrade my MapFinder application, since I like that fact that it knows nothing about Buffy and thus can't mess up the Buffy Mod's paths; "If ain't broken, don't fix it." is a motto I live by, most of the time that is ...

BTW, I'm using MS Windows Vista.

Good luck!

Sun Tzu Wu

I am trying to set up mapfinder for a Warlords HoF game. It will not accept my save file path. It states that it is invalid. It accepts my Mapfinder path and rule file. This is the file location. It is the same for my Buffy mod.

C:\Users\Shulec\Documents\My Games\Civ4_Map_Finder\Saves

Any suggestions?

I am using Microsoft Windows Home Premium Vista 64 bit and Map finder 1.8. I have Mapfinder set to Warlords.

Sounds like a Windows Vista/Windows 7 issue, they can only write to subdirectories I believe.

What are subdirectories? And if is the issue, how can it be remedied?

Update!

Problem solved! I applied illogic, tried random nonsense manipulations and Voila! I have disproven the theory of "Garbage in = Garbage out!"

Problem solved! I applied illogic, tried random nonsense manipulations and Voila! I have disproven the theory of "Garbage in = Garbage out!"


I gather that you used some sort of Magic to solve a Classic Computation Theory Problem (CCTB) related to Warlords and MapFinding, but there are very few practicing Magicians among the Civfanatics' Faithful. Can you please rephrase your Solution in terms Non-magicians can understand? Also, please provide your counter-example that disproves "Garbage In = Garbage Out". Finally, many of us Mathemagicians would love to see your new Illogic Theory (IT)!

Sun Tzu Wu

Hello - I want to start playing some HOF games. I'm trying to get Mapfinder to work. I at least believe I have MF regenerating maps automatically. I haven't had a mapped save yet which is really the main reason I'm posting my question here. I have an idea of what I'd like for this start, but in terms of the rule builder, i don't know if I'm being unreasonable. Here's an example of the current rule I set up:



http://a.imageshack.us/img201/9832/mapfinder.jpg



Obviously, there are a couple of resources I really want in this start. Other priorities are food, of course, and general terrain features. Not to picky about terrain as long as I get a few hills. Now, I did just delete rules related to copper and iron as I believe I read that on ancient starts this would register as a negative.

So my questions are:

1) Is this rule I set up completely unreasonable or illogical? Is there a better way to do this? Should I have more rule groups like the default with what appears to be diminishing returns?

2) Is there some forum regarding Mapfinder with more detail discussion on setting up rules for particular starts?

thanks

Well, I think you are looking for a start with 3 food resource, marble AND stone. that's a pretty unlikely set of circumstances, to be honest.

i usually set up my searches for 1 food resource. I am not sure I have ever seen a start that would match that.

Yeah, I guess I'm looking for examples on what are reasonable starts to request.

Also, the saves I do get from MF only show the BTS loading screen, not the map. Any idea why this happens.

Yeah, I guess I'm looking for examples on what are reasonable starts to request.

Also, the saves I do get from MF only show the BTS loading screen, not the map. Any idea why this happens.

I usually go with 2 commerce resources and then review the maps to see what else it has on it.

As to the loading screen, it is a known issue. If you only run MF when you have BtS running in a window, rather than full screen it will solve the problem (can change civ.ini to request full screen on starting).

I usually go with 2 commerce resources and then review the maps to see what else it has on it.

As to the loading screen, it is a known issue. If you only run MF when you have BtS running in a window, rather than full screen it will solve the problem (can change civ.ini to request full screen on starting).

thanks...I did read about that windowed deal, but that it was something different. I trying out different rule combinations that are less restrictive.


Is it okay to change the default MF save directory in BUFFY? The BUFFY default directory and MF default are different - bit of an annoyance.

Is it okay to change the default MF save directory in BUFFY? The BUFFY default directory and MF default are different - bit of an annoyance.

It is no problem to change the save directory in BUFFY.

It is no problem to change the save directory in BUFFY.

I tried this but it didn't work at all. Doesn't stick with in-game options and Map Finder doesn't like it when you change the BUFFY MF ini - doesn't work anyway. Not sure if anyone know how to do this. Currently, I have to redirect the save directory in MF every time I open it which is a tad annoying. Is that normal for everyone?

I thought maybe I could install MF differently, but the thing that is really odd is that MF in BUFFY Options points to two completely different directories.

I tried this but it didn't work at all. Doesn't stick with in-game options and Map Finder doesn't like it when you change the BUFFY MF ini - doesn't work anyway. Not sure if anyone know how to do this. Currently, I have to redirect the save directory in MF every time I open it which is a tad annoying. Is that normal for everyone?

I thought maybe I could install MF differently, but the thing that is really odd is that MF in BUFFY Options points to two completely different directories.


I just start up BtS, start a Game and press CTRL-ALT-O to get to the BUFFY interface. Click the Maps Tab and change the Civ4_Map_Finder Viewer application Path (C:\Users\<username>\Documents\My Games\Civ4_Map_Finder\) and Civ4_Map_Finder Viewer Saves Path (C:\Users\<username>\Documents\My Games\Civ4_Map_Finder\Saves) and current Rules file. For me, I just point the two Paths to the Civ4_Map_Finder location and the Save folder under that. The Rules file is the only thing I regularly change based on what kind of Game Starting Position I'm looking for.

In case of multiple Civ4_Map_Finder Viewer application installations, use the path of the one you most commonly use. For me that's in the same Folder where all User Profile Data for CivilizationIV is located in ((C:\Users\<username>\Documents\My Games\).

Good luck!

Sun Tzu Wu

Well, I've read through this thread, and I've read through all the documentation I've been able to find about Map Finder, and I still can't get it to work. ALT + G just acts like regenerate map in the options menu, and CTR + ALT + G does . . . nothing?

I've got XP, and BTS, and BUFFY .003 loaded, and the latest Map Finder loaded. And a recent enough .NET. And I've got Map Finder enabled in the BUFFY options. And the paths there (in My Documents, much like in the threads above) match the paths I installed MapFinder to. Oh yes, I've made sure I'm pointing to the Default.rul

I found the Map Finder settings in the Buffy Mod folder, and saw it said something about the default path being in the Program Files, so I re-installed Map Finder to there. Still no dice.

Actually, I've uninstalled and re-installed Map Finder about 6 times, lol.

I'm assuming I'm just cursed to hand regenerate maps for the rest of my now-blighted HOF career. Can anyone think of something else I could be trying?

Well, I've read through this thread, and I've read through all the documentation I've been able to find about Map Finder, and I still can't get it to work. ALT + G just acts like regenerate map in the options menu, and CTR + ALT + G does . . . nothing?

I've got XP, and BTS, and BUFFY .003 loaded, and the latest Map Finder loaded. And a recent enough .NET. And I've got Map Finder enabled in the BUFFY options. And the paths there (in My Documents, much like in the threads above) match the paths I installed MapFinder to. Oh yes, I've made sure I'm pointing to the Default.rul

I found the Map Finder settings in the Buffy Mod folder, and saw it said something about the default path being in the Program Files, so I re-installed Map Finder to there. Still no dice.

Actually, I've uninstalled and re-installed Map Finder about 6 times, lol.

I'm assuming I'm just cursed to hand regenerate maps for the rest of my now-blighted HOF career. Can anyone think of something else I could be trying?BUFFY uses differenr hotkeys. I can't remember it off the top of my head. If you go into the BUFFY options and click on help you can find the hotkeys there.

Thanks for the quick reply, Denniz. I know you've long since stopped working on these mods (I love BUFFY by the way). . . .

I looked where you suggested and no dice. Nothing there that indicates that anything but CTR + ALT + G is the hotkey.

I've tried quite a few likely combos, too. Nothing I've tried works as the Map Finder toggle--though I did find out that ALT + F4 is a quick way to exit the game :crazyeye:

Anyone out there using Map Finder with BUFFY? If so, what's the Map Finder hotkey?

Thanks for the quick reply, Denniz. I know you've long since stopped working on these mods (I love BUFFY by the way). . . .

I looked where you suggested and no dice. Nothing there that indicates that anything but CTR + ALT + G is the hotkey.

I've tried quite a few likely combos, too. Nothing I've tried works as the Map Finder toggle--though I did find out that ALT + F4 is a quick way to exit the game :crazyeye:

Anyone out there using Map Finder with BUFFY? If so, what's the Map Finder hotkey?

The BUFFY Map Finder "Hot Key" is no longer a toggle:

CTRL-ALT-G starts MapFinder from within an initial Start position.

CTRL-ALT-SHIFT-G stops MapFinder.

Note that you can't simply hold down the modifier keys CTRL, ALT and optionally SHIFT and then press the G Key like you should be able to do. You have to press the keys more or less simultaneously to get the desired effect (MapFinder ON/OFF).

Also, note that when stopping, the "CTRL-ALT-SHIFT-G" is received immediately, but the current Map generation will complete anyway. This can be a long time for larger Maps. Thus, it can literally be 1-2 minutes before you see MapFinder finally stopping. Starting should be immediate (unless one is still waiting for a previous stop to complete ;) ).

Finally, MapFinder in BUFFY only works properly when BtS is started in Windowed Mode. It will not save any JPEG images of the Saved Starting positions in Full Screen Mode, but does otherwise work, but you can't see it working other than noting file creations in the MapFinder Save folder.

Sun Tzu Wu

Ah, the necessity of pressing CTRL + ALT + G simultaneously was what I was missing. Thanks STW! :D

Ok....after years of playing Civ 4, I'm trying out Map Finder for the first time, as I was pondering efforting the Challenger 10 Deity Religious game, which as I've read necessitates just the right sort of starting point.

Does Map Finder really just sit there and regenerate maps for hours on end? I finally gave up and quit after watching it do this for over an hour. 200 maps and like 70 saves. I would rather watch paint dry, I think. I'm all for better starting points, but I guess maybe I don't care enough that it has to be perfect.

Unless I'm doing something wrong, that is. I know I can change the Rules settings for searching. But, that doesn't change the fact that it just keeps regenerating the map, right?

Is this really what everyone does? I can't imagine. Not what I'd call fun, when I want to play a game.

The idea is to run the program when you are not using your cpu, like overnight or at work. Then you come back to the mapfinder program to sort the maps and choose the ones you want to try.

If I am lucky, overnight I will get 1-2 good maps. Here are my rules:

http://i942.photobucket.com/albums/ad265/shulec/Mapfinderrules.jpg

I get a lot of saves that I don't use. Some of them that don't look super turn out well once you clear some of the fog.

The idea is to run the program when you are not using your cpu, like overnight or at work. Then you come back to the mapfinder program to sort the maps and choose the ones you want to try.

If I am lucky, overnight I will get 1-2 good maps. Here are my rules:

http://i942.photobucket.com/albums/ad265/shulec/Mapfinderrules.jpg

I get a lot of saves that I don't use. Some of them that don't look super turn out well once you clear some of the fog.

Yeah, but I play on my laptop now, and don't want to wake up to it smoking! But truly, it also needs to rest when I sleep:)

Seems like this utility just isn't for me. Seems like it's a lot of rigamarole, when I can just regen the map a few times and find a decent start. Might just not be able to win at those ultra high levels. But, I don't think those levels aren't really about playing the game, anyhow. More like gimmicky play, in order to win.

Seems like this utility just isn't for me. Seems like it's a lot of rigamarole, when I can just regen the map a few times and find a decent start. Might just not be able to win at those ultra high levels. But, I don't think those levels aren't really about playing the game, anyhow. More like gimmicky play, in order to win.


Yes, you can just regenerate the map a few times, but that completely misses the point of MapFinder.

There are apparently some players that can and do regenerate the map thousands of time for the "perfect" start. However, most HoF players either work or go to school full-time or both and really can't keep up with the few "full-time" manual map regenerating players. It is for the rest of the serious HoF players that MapFinder was created for; so we can also compete almost fairly with these players that seem to have nearly "infinite" time to manually regenerate a thousand maps per HoF table slot.

MapFinder is an essential tool for the serious HoF player and shulec gave you a good tip and screen shot example of how to effectively use it. This is the "Map Finder Help" thread; your post didn't even have a hint that you appreciated shulec's help.

It is fine to say that MapFinder doesn't fit your style of play, but your comments that it is "lot of rigamarole" and "... gimmicky play ..." goes a bit too far, perhaps. There are more politically correct ways to say you think MapFinder gives HoF players an unfair advantage.

If you do sincerely want help with MapFinder, just ask; I'm happy to help as well.

Sun Tzu Wu

Yes, you can just regenerate the map a few times, but that completely misses the point of MapFinder.

There are apparently some players that can and do regenerate the map thousands of time for the "perfect" start. However, most HoF players either work or go to school full-time or both and really can't keep up with the few "full-time" manual map regenerating players. It is for the rest of the serious HoF players that MapFinder was created for; so we can also compete almost fairly with these players that seem to have nearly "infinite" time to manually regenerate a thousand maps per HoF table slot.

MapFinder is an essential tool for the serious HoF player and shulec gave you a good tip and screen shot example of how to effectively use it. This is the "Map Finder Help" thread; your post didn't even have a hint that you appreciated shulec's help.

It is fine to say that MapFinder doesn't fit your style of play, but your comments that it is "lot of rigamarole" and "... gimmicky play ..." goes a bit too far, perhaps. There are more politically correct ways to say you think MapFinder gives HoF players an unfair advantage.

If you do sincerely want help with MapFinder, just ask; I'm happy to help as well.

Sun Tzu Wu

Well, sorry to hear you think that way. I didn't mean it to come across like that. And, undoubtedly, I appreciate any and all help I get at this site.

I'm just saying, it just appears this utility is not for me.