I am far from being an excellent warmonger, but I am one at heart. Many experienced players here have mentioned the importance of fast wars, cutting through your enemys empire before he can whip defenders and/or switch civics. I still find myself dragging wars out longer than necessary, because they're fun to me and I'm reluctant to take peace when I want a vassal or obliteration. Especially in the medieval era.

In this thread belongs everything you have found makes wars shorter - besides loosing them of course. :spank:

Those are mine / the ones I've learned here:

Use super healers (woodsman3/medic1 OR GG medic 3) to heal troops faster
Use spys to lower defense instead of cats / trebs and capture the cities with mounted troops (alternate strategy)
bring enough siege and use CR/accuracy if needed
attack, take peace when you can't advance any further. Reinforce and repeat. (watch diplomacy)
use amphibious attacks around his empire. ships can move a lot faster than units in enemy territory
Of course attack when you have a tech advantage, rifles being the most obvious one
What did I forget?

Your points, Everest, are good. A few of mine to add:

- Always use multiple stacks if possible. This confuses the AI, meaning you can attack multiple cities simultaneously while the AI doesn't know how to defend itself. Also you'll find more defenders on the way to a city so you can kill them more easily.

- Don't promote your units too early. Promoting a unit is a great way to clean off collateral damage or random counterattacks.

- Don't build up your forces mindlessly, meaning if your opponent has no horses, you don't need spears/pikes. Also, use your promotions according to the units you're facing.

- If you want your war to be really quick (but more expensive hammerswise usually), use mounted units (with spies). Cuirassiers/cavs etc an cut through your enemies like butter if you have the support they need (spies...). Thing only is they're expensive to build and thus aren't always possilbe. If you have several great commerce sites but few production sites, you can also try to build "old" mounted units (chariots, HAs, ...) and upgrade them.

i agree with mystfly's last point very strongly. I never used to use mounted units because it was always easier to just either tech rifling or CS and use superior troops just running up against archers/longbowmen but since i started to use mounted troops especially with charismatic leaders as they get an extra 2 xp. starting out with CIII 2 movement knights is very good

Some comments from a sloppy but rather effective marathon speed war-monger.

1) I have given up on the super-healing chariot and prefer to settle the GG. More experienced troops from the start work better I have found.

2) Bring overwhelming forces, let the injured heal while the uninjured move on to a weaker secondary target. I do not suicide all seige weapons, preferring to sent some on with teh second wave.

3) Using spies to produce a revolt and sending Amphibious assaults within the same continet are excellent ideas. Unfortunately I forget or don't bother. A I said I am sloppy at war-mongering.

4) I send multiple stacks aganist multiple targets. The AI generally throws their defense into one city, thus only 1 stack is tied up.

5) Take time to dismantle the AIs counter attacks before they counter attack. Diverting your knights/crussairs/Cavalry to open land AIs reduces their forces alot.

6) Rifles against Longbows, yes this is good!

7) Theaters/Colesiums/and 20% culture ar great ways to entertain your people so they forget War Weariness.

8) If you plan on absorbing a large empire, make sure you are either Organized/in State Property/ or have a mega Shirne (or the AI does).

9) Make sure the attacked AI does not have strong friends.

10) Be prepared to finish the job regardless of how long it takes. A half dead snake can still bite you on the heal when you are distracted.

- Locate the AI's biggest stack before attacking, and try to destroy it ASAP (if the stack is in a border city, try to take that city first). This way 1) you drop the AI's power rating quickly so he's willing to sign peace faster, and 2) there will be less counter-attacks from the enemy.

If you can destroy the AI's SoD in your initial strike and quickly move on, you'll find the rest of its cities guarded by relatively few defenders. Don't avoid that big early battle - bring enough units to win decisively.

Scouting ahead is important. Know what units you're going up against and where they are concentrated. Are the AI's cities on hills? Do they have walls? Castles? High cultural defense?

Have a plan. Alt+S lets you place sticky notes. Set up rally points, decide what cities you're going to keep or raze, decide what order to take cities, and decide when to stop before you go to war. Your plans may change, but going in without a plan is a good recipe for disaster.

The scouting pre-war surely is important but even more so is during war: Use spies to watch stack movements and try to predict where the AI will counterattack. Especially when using mounted units: You can look where the defences are low and quickly change targets.

The scouting pre-war surely is important but even more so is during war: Use spies to watch stack movements and try to predict where the AI will counterattack. Especially when using mounted units: You can look where the defences are low and quickly change targets.

Right. And air units once those become available. Even airships, though nerfed last patch, make excellent wartime scouts.

+ Push your cultural borders towards the city where the AI has its offensive SoD stationed, then annihilate @ war turn 1 with enough siege.
+ Just before you DoW the AI use spies or trades to get them out of hurry-able civics (Slavery, Universal Suffrage, Nationhood (does the AI ever draft?)) and strip them off excess money, so they can't upgrade old garbage (should they have such units).
+ Paratroopers.

What did I forget?

Hmm - how about the March promotion, especially when you already have the advantage of the next generation and or enough siege to sustain the attack.

And later Blitz, but that's no longer available in the medieval era, I suppose.

You've already mentioned this, but amphibious attacks.
If you can take multiple cities amphibiously on the first turn of war while at the same time moving your land forces across your borders, the AI essentially freezes up and holes in their cities.

Given, this is somewhat harder in the medieval era since Galleys can only carry 2 units and essentially become expensive and weak blockaders. But if you can manage to get 2 galleons on each coastal city with 3 or so spies to drop culture, that's usually enough to take it.

You've already mentioned this, but amphibious attacks.
If you can take multiple cities amphibiously on the first turn of war while at the same time moving your land forces across your borders, the AI essentially freezes up and holes in their cities.

Given, this is somewhat harder in the medieval era since Galleys can only carry 2 units and essentially become expensive and weak blockaders. But if you can manage to get 2 galleons on each coastal city with 3 or so spies to drop culture, that's usually enough to take it.

Pillboxes! Put some troops that can be promoted to CG in these.

It's not hard to predict counter attack locations from the AI, the most important thing is finding and destroying their SoD that actually moves. Of course, sometimes you won't have to, one way that really speeds up wars is to :backstab:.

It's more a global approach, but one thing I've learned from Rusten's games is to focus the whole empire 100% on military buildup and war. Don't be afraid to draft/whip your cities aggressively and stagnate in tech for a while. The purpose of the war is to destroy a rival and get their cities working for you as quickly as possible. The faster you can field as many units as possible, the quicker that will happen.

It's more a global approach, but one thing I've learned from Rusten's games is to focus the whole empire 100% on military buildup and war. Don't be afraid to draft/whip your cities aggressively and stagnate in tech for a while. The purpose of the war is to destroy a rival and get their cities working for you as quickly as possible. The faster you can field as many units as possible, the quicker that will happen.

I agree. My warring was good before but drafting put it up a whole new level. Draft + whipping is really powerful even though it's an all-out maneuver.

I find it interesting, because suddenly those spots in between cities that you need CS just to farm can become useful. If you plan ahead, these cities can be good for 4-5 units each in war prep :eek:!

HUGE number counts of troops helps a lot. I still don't know how Rusten manages such incredible tech rates (understandably immort/diety AI techs faster, but his BPT at like 100 AD is over 200 without going mids or anything - that's incredible). I need to learn how he does it because getting gunpowder or whatever before 500 AD seems like I'd have a huge draft/whip/kill window. I had a lot of success in a recent emperor game winning lib @ 1130 ad and merely taking nationalism. The drafting still allowed plenty of damage before the AI caught up. What if I could start drafting in 800 AD?!:rolleyes:

++ Just before you DoW the AI use spies or trades to get them out of hurry-able civics (Slavery, Universal Suffrage, Nationhood (does the AI ever draft?)) .

The problem with this approach is that you can only switch them to civics you are currently running. Which means you also lose those hurrying abilities. Might be worth a shot if you are spiritual or have Cristo Redentor.

The problem with this approach is that you can only switch them to civics you are currently running. Which means you also lose those hurrying abilities. Might be worth a shot if you are spiritual or have Cristo Redentor.

I can think of times where I'd be running caste for war prep. Especially later when the means of fast production is drafting, it's easy enough to bump them out of military civics, or at least slavery.

^ Thing is, on the higher levels your teching is faster anyway - if you're behind, you get discounts. You then can with a well timed bulb and trading get up to equality again and with some beelining (rifling for example) create an opportunity. If you're already ahead, you can easily get money by selling techs to the AI. On lower levels the AI usually doesn't have that much money (only after a wonder has been built probabely) so this isn't nearly as effective.

RE drafting, I find that several times in my last games, I had my GPFarm build globe (besides the NE) to leave oxford for my cap. When I started drafting, I could easily draft like mad and when I'm done I can easily continue teching. Regarding junk cities: If you're interested in how mass drafting looks, I have several links of ICS games in my sig, where we used an unusual way of teching and then took over by beelining rifling and massdrafting (ICS 1 + 2 were success (emperor + immortal) with Teh Religious Economy, ICS 3 religious economy fail on deity, now ICS 4 under progress with TRE).

I might be wrong but can't the AI switch back instantly? At least when you convert it it won't have anarchy either.
What I always do is preforming Counterespionage, this is vital if you want to keep your cities and improvements safe from harm.

I might be wrong but can't the AI switch back instantly? At least when you convert it it won't have anarchy either.
What I always do is preforming Counterespionage, this is vital if you want to keep your cities and improvements safe from harm.

Unless it's spiritual it will still have anarchy for doing it. There's nothing stopping you from doing it repeatedly even during the war also. How much anarchy does the AI tolerate? Who knows, but you can't whip in anarchy!

I know teching is faster on higher difficulty (I run most of my games at emperor though!), but regardless he was getting 200 BPT at 100 AD! Tech will never be as fast below deity because the trade potential isn't there, and granted some techs unlock more teching potential. However, that seems an AWFULLY big disparity from the 45-80 BPT I see around then. Disparity that doesn't seem to fit with only the difficulty variance as the explanation.

Granted, my research takes off pretty quickly after this and I often see 150 BPT (and rarely around 200) around 700-800 AD when I'm doing well. I often wind up ahead of the AIs. However, it seems like if I could even get 2/3 of the beakers Rusten was getting in his last game at any given time, I could RUN AWAY IN TECH on emperor so bad the game would be almost unplayable in terms of how easy it would seem. This is, perhaps, why Rusten considers immortal to be a "more relaxed" difficulty...I'm led to believe here that he'd very easily manage 2/3 of those beakers or more even on emperor, and it would result in a blowout victory. What I (and probably 98% of the people on the forum :lol:) want to understand is how to attain such an absurd tech rate (or at least closer) consistently.

I won at immortal due to an early axe rush, unit spam, and war backstabs, coupled with a BIG, zealot ally who voted me an AP win. I did not win by running away in tech and blowing everyone out in a "relaxed" game, although I did see some warring success due to spam.

Unless it's spiritual it will still have anarchy for doing it. There's nothing stopping you from doing it repeatedly even during the war also. How much anarchy does the AI tolerate? Who knows, but you can't whip in anarchy!
The AI is only in anarchy when switching back to its original civic (if it does so).

RE teching: I rarely look at the demo screen, only if I want to know how strong #1 AI is relative to me. I don't look at it and say "wow 100 mfg, that's strong" as every game is different. I only compare values of the same game. 100 hammers on map x with leader y and opponents z can be strong and on map a with leader b and opponents c rather poor. I can't comment that closely on Rustens game as I merely read the reports (didn't look at the saves and read the comments inbetween sets) as I was busy my exams and SGs.

Also, these values you see in the screen compared to the AI isn't everything, it depends on the kind of economy you use. Say you use a SE and you use your GSs for bulbing and trading (remember how unconquered sun managed to get back to tech pairity with deity AIs after insane rexing in 320AD?? - only with a philo bulb and trading around!), or you use an EE and you used one of your GSpies to infiltrate, these values don't exactly show the situation. However, if you use a CE or a TRE, your teching will be rather constant (or constantly growing) so these values are saying a bit more.

A big thing (I believe) that makes those differences is MM. The more time you spend MMing, the more you can get out of your civ. I nowadays play deity sometimes to see how I'm doing (a bit pathetic atm to be honest but who cares :lol:), otherwise on Immortal. If I'm concentrated and motivated I'm doing way better than otherwise. I go trough all my cities usually until ~1000AD and do stuff like turning research off before I build my first libraries or do queue swapping to save maintenance, using binary science and working undeveloped cottages when slider is on 0% and the city only has a library, etc. The more time you spend on doing boring MM the more you can get out of your civ and are thus able to get such high beaker or hammer outputs. A great way to save time when already spending lots in MM is BUG mod of course which I greatly advise.


Now, back to topic? :mischief:

The AI is only in anarchy when switching back to its original civic (if it does so).

RE teching: I rarely look at the demo screen, only if I want to know how strong #1 AI is relative to me. I don't look at it and say "wow 100 mfg, that's strong" as every game is different. I only compare values of the same game. 100 hammers on map x with leader y and opponents z can be strong and on map a with leader b and opponents c rather poor. I can't comment that closely on Rustens game as I merely read the reports (didn't look at the saves and read the comments inbetween sets) as I was busy my exams and SGs.

Also, these values you see in the screen compared to the AI isn't everything, it depends on the kind of economy you use. Say you use a SE and you use your GSs for bulbing and trading (remember how unconquered sun managed to get back to tech pairity with deity AIs after insane rexing in 320AD?? - only with a philo bulb and trading around!), or you use an EE and you used one of your GSpies to infiltrate, these values don't exactly show the situation. However, if you use a CE or a TRE, your teching will be rather constant (or constantly growing) so these values are saying a bit more.

A big thing (I believe) that makes those differences is MM. The more time you spend MMing, the more you can get out of your civ. I nowadays play deity sometimes to see how I'm doing (a bit pathetic atm to be honest but who cares :lol:), otherwise on Immortal. If I'm concentrated and motivated I'm doing way better than otherwise. I go trough all my cities usually until ~1000AD and do stuff like turning research off before I build my first libraries or do queue swapping to save maintenance, using binary science and working undeveloped cottages when slider is on 0% and the city only has a library, etc. The more time you spend on doing boring MM the more you can get out of your civ and are thus able to get such high beaker or hammer outputs. A great way to save time when already spending lots in MM is BUG mod of course which I greatly advise.


Now, back to topic? :mischief:

Thanks for the tips :).

Civic swaps are cheap (I forget how much actually, but they're easy enough) so it's not a reach to just slap the AI out of slavery the instant it tries to go back. If it keeps revolting it will experience anarchy for the whole war...I don't think the AI will do this typically, but if it does the EP points are well spent IMO as then not only is it not whipping, it isn't making ANYTHING at all. I get the feeling the AI usually will just stay in caste if it isn't spiritual.

I'd also say the AI doesn't switch back quickly (probabely unless its favourite civic?). But I'd rather have EPs for one more city revolt than have the AI whip 5 more units (that are unpromoted usually).

If you want fast wars then it is important to use fast-moving units or multiple stacks. If you think one stack of one-move units will conquer an entire empire quickly during the medieval era, it's rarely going to happen :lol: For really fast wars I prefer cavalry or tanks/modern armor when I have a tech advantage. A couple stacks can rip through an enemy empire quickly.

For later in the game, it can be helpful to send a pile of marines in ships around the coast of your enemy to take the coastal cities while your main stack(s) conquer inland. This can help things proceed more quickly as coastal cities can be off in obscure locations.

In general, a tech advantage or overwhelming numbers is going to speed up wars. If you don't have one or the other, you could be in for a dogfight, especially during the medieval era.

Tanks + bombers can conquer incredibly fast btw.

If you can get them to switch via a trade, then the AI assesses the new civic as better than the old one and will not switch back. They just didn't do by themselves because of the negative Anarchy value. Otherwise they will just say ("This would go against everything...").

Switching will guarantee a minimum of 6 turns (non spiritual AIs) without any hurrying of units in ALL AI cities. I think this is worth the EPs and very much in line with the idea of a swift and decisive war.

Switching will guarantee a minimum of 6 turns (non spiritual AIs) without any hurrying of units in ALL AI cities. I think this is worth the EPs and very much in line with the idea of a swift and decisive war.
The AI usually only whips in threatened cities so it's not that much of a deal. Usually your second wave is before turn 6 (assuming low casualties and fast healing) but your 3rd attacks will face whipped defenders IF the AI switched back.

Well once the AI's offensive SoD is gone this approach allows to split your own stack further and threat more cities simultaneously (best done with amphibious task forces). Overall one has more success with multiple mini stacks.

the battle of Tours proved a civ4 adage- destroy the big stack first and clean up later.
Martel was allowed to find a good defensive spot-and the Arabs allowed him to build it up while they pillaged around in southern gaul.
Course i raze all enemy cities so it is not really tactical issue.

Thank you guys for your input. I'll try it out in my next games. :)

One thing that wasn't mentioned:
in later wars (renaissance+) the AI normally has a good sized SOD and collat units. If you do the rifle rush you don't have to worry about the collat--they shouldn't have cannon yet.
Facing a strong AI, one strat is to declare then wait for the SOD to come to you. You'll get it on your turf which will help WW a lot and the AI doesn't normally start whipping until its cities are threatened. Once the SOD is gone you can split your stacks much easier.

I can't believe nobody mentioned running universal suffrage. All you need is one city in your opponent's territory and you have reinforcements on the go. Useful for continent maps

;7000082']I can't believe nobody mentioned running universal suffrage. All you need is one city in your opponent's territory and you have reinforcements on the go. Useful for continent maps

I used to like doing this and still do occasionally, but with sufficient forces/naval logistics it's not as powerful as just traditional shipping!

Airports are handy for flying in troops from the home continent to a newly captured city, to give it a defender or otherwise reinforce the stack.

Airports are handy for flying in troops from the home continent to a newly captured city, to give it a defender or otherwise reinforce the stack.

That they are, that they are. I love airlifts.

Also, does anyone have a link to this Rusten game that's being talked about, 200bpt circa 0 AD seems like a technique worth learning.

I hate tech trading.

The things that I make sure to do in wars now are bring defensive units. I know it seems obvious but when you're cranking out your offensive troops its easy to overlook. This is after a game where I captured and immediately lost 3 enemy cities...

Also I use planes, especially when I have a tech lead (no SAMs). Especially bombers!

That they are, that they are. I love airlifts.

Also, does anyone have a link to this Rusten game that's being talked about, 200bpt circa 0 AD seems like a technique worth learning.

I hate tech trading.

He had a buearocracy capital with monasteries/academy/cottages. This was about 150 BPT. Then each city farmed and whipped, so they added about 20 research due to the riverside tiles. Also, it was 250 cause the slider was pushed up to 100%.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=279847

Don't attack as a stack.

What I mean is pick the unit individually that you want to attack with, the computer makes poor choices when you let it pick which unit is attacking, since it will always pick the one with the highest odds, even when it's a sure defeat.

1. If you want wars fast, bring more troops. The bigger your army, the quicker the war. Often this goes to extremes for me in the modern age when I attack with 100+ units.

2. If you need more troops without being behind in science all game, you need to ramp up quickly before the war. Which means slavery in early game, drafting in mid game, then rushbuying in late game. Ruthlessly and relentlessly no matter what the short term cost.

2. If you need more troops without being behind in science all game, you need to ramp up quickly before the war. Which means slavery in early game, drafting in mid game, then rushbuying in late game. Ruthlessly and relentlessly no matter what the short term cost.

This takes practice and is counterintuitive. "What? Whip down my cities to half population? 5 unhappy faces from whipping? I'll never recover!!"

In 10 turns, whipping 5 times (once every other turn so as not to get the "no hammer in the queue penalty") lets you crank out about 7-8 classical age units (5 from whipping, 2-3 from the overflow).

Do this in 4 cities, and you have about 30 units. This is sufficient to deal with most classical foes, especially if you have construction.

The unhappiness is painful and your production will be in the toilet for a bit, but it's usually worth it. Just make sure your gpt doesn't crash so hard you can't pay the maintenance on your whipped army.

build roads. lure out enemy soldiers with workers. bribe someone into another war first.

This takes practice and is counterintuitive. "What? Whip down my cities to half population? 5 unhappy faces from whipping? I'll never recover!!"

In 10 turns, whipping 5 times (once every other turn so as not to get the "no hammer in the queue penalty") lets you crank out about 7-8 classical age units (5 from whipping, 2-3 from the overflow).

Do this in 4 cities, and you have about 30 units. This is sufficient to deal with most classical foes, especially if you have construction.

The unhappiness is painful and your production will be in the toilet for a bit, but it's usually worth it. Just make sure your gpt doesn't crash so hard you can't pay the maintenance on your whipped army.

Exactly - its extremely powerful.

Add drafting for another 30 units in 10 turns once you have that tech.

Add rushbuying for another 40-50 units in 10 turns in the late game.

I've added 90 units in the space of 15 turns - enough for a modern age war with the power leader.

The advantage of this approach is that you are not paying maintenance on your troops for a long time. And you can use your war civics so that you get more promotions.

My typical situation is either one city full time building troops - my HE city in peacetime. Or all cities building troops as fast as they can - before a war (or if I screw up during one).

Income from pillaging, taking cities etc can help pay for the war.

Long wars are generally losing ones - if the war goes on too long you are probably falling behind the AI. Exception would be defensive wars and protective leaders but that is another strategy.