i hope civ IV colonization will go with new features.first of all this game must look to the native population with other eyes. the diplomacy between natives must be in the game, the war between natives too...it's historical, the iroquois fought the hurons, the susquehannocks, the mahicans...the abenakis etc... the european powers must have the ability to recruit natives for his army...this game must improve his ancestor. and the cream of the cream we must be allowed play the natives.

I de-bolded your entire post to make it easier to read.

I do not think native actions/behaviors will change at Civ 4-Colonization. I think everything will be and should stay same. It was funny with that old style. We only want better graphics no change in game play.

I want change in gameplay. I'd be nice to have more interaction of native tribes among each other and more diplomatic options. I also prefer the civ4 combat system to that of old school colonization. looking forward to the remake and how they will mix the old with the new.

It would be fun if we could recruit some natives to fight again them own tribe

It would be really fun if we can control the natives tribes to fight them invader

It would be really fun if we can control the natives tribes to fight them invader

Agreed. It would add a new dimension to the game and at one fell swoop get rid of the ridiculous racism accusations.

I do not think native actions/behaviors will change at Civ 4-Colonization. I think everything will be and should stay same. It was funny with that old style. We only want better graphics no change in game play.Eh?

So even if you have peace with another european nation, you still want them to be able to block your roads like in the old version, because you could not occupy a square where any unit you couldnot control was present?

You like the poor pathfinding, resulting in units shifting back and fortch because they could not figure out how to use roads properly?

You liked the way the game handled the tooltips over the way civ4 does that sort of things?

You like not being able to use stacks of units?

And so on... The game could use a major overhaul to get it up to civ4 standards and worthy of the name.

i hope civ IV colonization will go with new features.first of all this game must look to the native population with other eyes. the diplomacy between natives must be in the game, the war between natives too...it's historical, the iroquois fought the hurons, the susquehannocks, the mahicans...the abenakis etc... the european powers must have the ability to recruit natives for his army...this game must improve his ancestor. and the cream of the cream we must be allowed play the natives.

I de-bolded your entire post to make it easier to read.



Wow, I like that idea! It would be fascinating to play as a native tribe, allying with one colony against another. I think that could be great fun.

How would the mechanics of playing the natives work? What would the victory condition be, high score? The European powers cannot kick even each other out of the New World, and you have nobody to declare independence from. Or do you steal shipbuilding technology, amass a fleet, and set sail to colonize Europe?

Playing them in multiplayer might be interesting. Only the problem then is that the AI natives are intrinsically friendly until the Europeans upset them, but all the native player has to do is rush at the first settlement, never allowing the Europeans to gain a foothold.

Yes, you can play the colonys off against each other, conquer your native rivals, but if the goal is to finish as an independent state, you essentially need to assimilate the colonies they get settled in your territory.

How would the mechanics of playing the natives work? What would the victory condition be, high score? The European powers cannot kick even each other out of the New World, and you have nobody to declare independence from. Or do you steal shipbuilding technology, amass a fleet, and set sail to colonize Europe?

Playing them in multiplayer might be interesting. Only the problem then is that the AI natives are intrinsically friendly until the Europeans upset them, but all the native player has to do is rush at the first settlement, never allowing the Europeans to gain a foothold.

Yes, you can play the colonys off against each other, conquer your native rivals, but if the goal is to finish as an independent state, you essentially need to assimilate the colonies they get settled in your territory.

Like in history the goal of the native peoples was survive. in the game they at last must maintain some territoy and some degree of independence(vassals, or paying tribute or something...). The iroquois for example until the american revolution were a state inside the british territory. They gain some victories in the early colonization period absorving the population of his enemies and get tribute from the others. playing with the natives is not necessarly the same has playing with the europeans...diferent goals different way of play. play with the natives give another dimension to the game. Imagine you play with one tribe, you have to trade with your neighbours and fight them at the same time. when the europeans arrive you have another people who want your territory. you must decide; make war or ally with the invasors to wage a devastating war against your native brothers?
to do that you must put your hunters in the woods hunting everything to supply the europeans with pelts to the european markets. trade these pelts for muskets. If your enemies, natives or europeans are to strong, remove your villages to safe location, redefine your territory. In the end you must survive in the turmoil of the new world. If you can´t retire to safe locations use diplomacy with the invasor. Pledge mercy, give tribute in pelts or human slaves...or give some of your territory, or acept living in a reserve. If this is impossible, then pledge to a friend tribe the inclusion of your tribe with them...if all this was impossible...them fight to the end... better death like a warrior than live...like a slave!

ps: i'm portuguese, so excuse my english!

Will it be posible to "convert" whole native settlements in settlements of your own?

I mean, if in original Colonization you could stablish a mission and get converted natives and since Civ4 engine allows you to culturaly "integrate" other player´s settlements, why not native (or other european) cities?

Will it be posible to "convert" whole native settlements in settlements of your own?

I mean, if in original Colonization you could stablish a mission and get converted natives and since Civ4 engine allows you to culturaly "integrate" other player´s settlements, why not native (or other european) cities?

Besause is not historical...the creation of praying towns in early new england or the moravians towns inside the delaware tribe proves that the full integration of one tribe in the european culture was impossible. If the mecanics of the game permits that they must be deleted.

the natives in the original colonization existed only for trade, because his influence in times of war is remote, my proposition is that in this new version they have more power to decide the fate of the continent.

I've seen screenshots in which native villages had been 'absorbed' into the territories of European colonies. However, I don't know how this affected the villages themselves. I can't say I'd be happy if those settlements could be manually controlled by the player. :undecide:

Besause is not historical...the creation of praying towns in early new england or the moravians towns inside the delaware tribe proves that the full integration of one tribe in the european culture was impossible. If the mecanics of the game permits that they must be deleted.

the natives in the original colonization existed only for trade, because his influence in times of war is remote, my proposition is that in this new version they have more power to decide the fate of the continent.
I can counter-exemplify that with the Mexican case.

Cortés was able to defeat the aztecs maily because he suscribed and alliance with most of the tribes under aztec control (mixtecs, zapotecs...).
After the succesful siege of aztect´s capital, Tenochtitlan, putting the rest of the population in Spanish´s hands was not hard.

By "integration" I do not mean a peaceful cultural exchange, I mean a non-military way of absorption maily dealing with aculturation.

I can counter-exemplify that with the Mexican case.

Cortés was able to defeat the aztecs maily because he suscribed and alliance with most of the tribes under aztec control (mixtecs, zapotecs...).
After the succesful siege of aztect´s capital, Tenochtitlan, putting the rest of the population in Spanish´s hands was not hard.

By "integration" I do not mean a peaceful cultural exchange, I mean a non-military way of absorption maily dealing with aculturation.

but what you do with a lot of natives in a city? the process of aculturation deals with a lot of time, for me the "run of the natives to the woods is the best process"... perhaps dealing with the diferent levels of the tribes is a good idea, for example...the conquest of a algonkin or a iroquois village put the natives running to the forest, but the conquest of a inca or aztec city, with other level of development, maybe the aculturation process is posible.

but what you do with a lot of natives in a city? the process of aculturation deals with a lot of time, for me the "run of the natives to the woods is the best process"... perhaps dealing with the diferent levels of the tribes is a good idea, for example...the conquest of a algonkin or a iroquois village put the natives running to the forest, but the conquest of a inca or aztec city, with other level of development, maybe the aculturation process is posible.

I´m sure you have seen The Mission. ;)

The game could deal with this in the form of the spanish "reservas" (Bartolomé de las Casas´ style or sort of) to aculturate natives.

Of course it should be a hard and slow process and natives could just rebel against that, but since in the constitution screenshots I saw you could grant native rights, well... it would be nice to turn natives into your citizens.

I know this is heavily ahistorical but you can go really ahistorical in civilization series. :)

I´m sure you have seen The Mission. ;)

The game could deal with this in the form of the spanish "reservas" (Bartolomé de las Casas´ style or sort of) to aculturate natives.

Of course it should be a hard and slow process and natives could just rebel against that, but since in the constitution screenshots I saw you could grant native rights, well... it would be nice to turn natives into your citizens.

I know this is heavily ahistorical but you can go really ahistorical in civilization series. :)

yes, in the end it's just a game.;)
but what is the advantage to aculturate the natives in the game?
if you conquer them you steal his land. the only minor advantage is the surplus of population to your empire...but what to do with a lot of acculturated people with no specialist function? perhaps incorporate them in the army?

You pointed at one of the advantages, yeah; more food for the guns...

But well, you can get a nice boost in population in general and perhaps, some of your new citizens are specialists, plus you get their comodities...

Anyway, the point was giving the game more posibilities to interact or to try besides the "forget them" or "smash them" approach. :p

good point i agree with you. i think the programmers must give a central position of the natives in the game. when the europeans arrive they were there. that was his land and they were a major participant of the social, politic, military encounters of these new land. give them a mere position of trade to enrich the european nations is a shame to this game. the natives were a major force in this struggle and my war is the recognition of that in the game. and of course imagine the possibilities and the fun you get from that...

Natives were important in the original Col for getting experts, and if friendly you could arm them and they'd fight your enemies but it was all constrained by the tech limitations of that original game.

In this version, think Civ4 functionality!

playing as the Natives will be like playing the Turks or East Balkans in WWII - tedious!

Making the natives playable means a lot more than simply changing the appropriate flag in the civilizations XML. As it stands, if they were playable, they wouldn't be very fun, and gameplay would be quite shallow compared to the Europeans. There's nothing to strive for except killing all the foreign colonists, and at most ally the other tribes to do so.

Playing the natives is a completely different perspective that'd need a lot of work to be properly implemented, worthy of an entire expansion. There's no motherland, no independence to strive for, no plausible naval action, no founding fathers, no immigration and only basic industries. The whole game would be more or less like the war of independence: using your inferior units and the terrain against the Europeans.

People complain about a single victory type, a military one. And in the natives case, it would make even less sense to have more than that. Once the Europeans came, they started progressively taking over all the land. Sure, you can trade and all, but in the end it's all to get muskets and horses to use against their former owners. Native players wouldn't be able to truly claim a victory until America was theirs again, and no economic, cultural or even diplomatic achievement would manage that: only war!

And the Europeans wouldn't back down just like that. Eventually you'd have all the Royal Expeditionary Forces fighting against your Mounted Warriors, which'd still be no match for regulars (it's difficult enough with continental soldiers!).

So, in the end, your only chance for victory would be attacking the European settlers unrealistically early, which'd bring successful games to an end before the 100th turn mark. But there's still the problem of the REF, which'd still be pretty damn powerful, despite being smaller in numbers than in the late game.