I've recently played two games starting with 19 civilizations on a small map. In both games, the Ashen Veil and evil civs in general grew rather powerful. The Ashen Veil had a spread percentage of around 25 to 35%. And in one game 1/3 of the civs were Ashen, and in the other probably 3/4 IIRC, with the whole world turned into Hell and all good civs eliminated! Yet in those games the Armageddon Counter just stayed hovering around respectively 15-25 and 30.

Is it normal that the Armageddon Counter doesn't rise high under these circumstances? Or is this some consequence of the unusual combination of a small map with 19 civs?

If it's the latter, what is the suggested GLOBAL_COUNTER_LIMIT_PER_PLAYER to have a more normal Armageddon experience?

Why was the Counter tied to the number of players again??

It's tied to the number of players so that it will not go up too rapidly or too slowly in most situations.

How does number of players affect the Flowering Counter going up or down? What problem needs to be corrected?


Edit: In a distant past, didn't the Armageddon Counter rise or drop if a good/evil civilization was destroyed? This is currently no longer the case, so wouldn't it make more sense to connect the Flowering Counter to map size? And let certain events (heroes and religions being founded) be completely mapsize independent?

having 19 players on a small map is damn crowded, even if there is little actual water on the map.

@Maniac: Flowering Counter??? I know you mean the AC, but why did you call it the flowering counter?

I guess I'm a masochist, especially since I suck at early rushes.

It just sounds wierd to call the Armageddeon counter the Flowering counter, but whatever you want to call it.

Err... woops?

Do you flowing counter?:confused:

The problem is the number of players. I've changed GLOBAL_COUNTER_LIMIT_PER_PLAYER to 10 myself, usually playing with twice the standard number of civs for a mapsize. Even on my crowded settings I'll see the horsemen when I still have tier 2 units or as I'm just getting tier 3. So maybe 10 would work for your settings as it's even more crowded. Unless you like them that early, like I do ;)

Basically, the more civs there are, the higher the 'true counter' is for each event. The displayed counter is a percentage that reflects where the true counter is. Since you've got like 3-4 times the standard number of civs on your map, the true counter is going to run from like 0-700 or something, so individual changes will be very small percentage-wise.

If you've noticed why Maniac's not been seen much round these FfH parts lately, you'd know why he's talking about the Flowering Counter :)

It's affected by the number of civs because in theory each civ will contribute some amount to the AC as it goes about its business. That kind of falls over when they're all crammed onto a small map though.

I really don't care whether he calls it the Flowering Counter or not, and no I don't know why Maniac's not been around the FFH regions lately.

You would think such a high number of civs on a small map would soon get culled down to a more manageable level for coexistence.

I've changed GLOBAL_COUNTER_LIMIT_PER_PLAYER to 10 myself, usually playing with twice the standard number of civs for a mapsize. Even on my crowded settings I'll see the horsemen when I still have tier 2 units or as I'm just getting tier 3. So maybe 10 would work for your settings as it's even more crowded. Unless you like them that early, like I do ;)

Thanks. I'll give it a try.

It's affected by the number of civs because in theory each civ will contribute some amount to the AC as it goes about its business.

But is that theory correct? Seems to me only Beasts of Agares' influence are number of civ-dependent.

You would think such a high number of civs on a small map would soon get culled down to a more manageable level for coexistence.

It went down to ten civs - only eliminated one civ myself. But I assume the armageddon counter depends on the starting number of civs?

But is that theory correct? Seems to me only Beasts of Agares' influence are number of civ-dependent.Don't forget events, as well as the Sheaim/Elohim mucking with things. Mostly though the only things that have a significant effect on the AC are spreading/purging AV and the Prophecy of Ragnarök, neither of which is #-of-civs-dependent. Human players also have the option of pursuing a Scorched Earth policy of conquest.
It went down to ten civs - only eliminated one civ myself. But I assume the armageddon counter depends on the starting number of civs?
Yeah, as far as I can tell. Otherwise most of my games would end with an AC over 100 :D

Don't forget events

Ah true.

as well as the Sheaim/Elohim mucking with things.

That's not number-dependent. :confused:

Human players also have the option of pursuing a Scorched Earth policy of conquest.

That's number of cities-dependent, and thus dependent on map size and percentage of land/coast.

Wouldn't it be better/possible to differentiate the size of different Armageddon effects dependent on number of civs, map size or nothing at all?

That's not number-dependent. :confused:
Only indirectly, in that the more civs you have the more likely you are to have each of them.

And yeah, razing cities to raise AC isn't #-of-civs dependent, sorry if I seemed to say it was.