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Maybe explore down right now, because an immediate Capital site is down right from Dell19's Great Road in the pure green, to get a free shield, Harbor access, 2 Forests, 5 Greens.
Or, straight right to include The Hill.

Of course you can join in although there should be separate threads to talk about these decisions, but they have not been created yet.

Originally posted by GaryNemo
Or, straight right to include The Hill.

I'm assuming that you play more Civ 3 than Civ 2...

Unlike Civ 3, moving onto a Hill square does not reveal extra squares ;)

I think that garynemo is correct. We probably should move our second settle south in view of founding a second city...a second city would help generate more trade and therefore increased research, which would help make up for the turn/turns we did not have a city. And any lag which that would have caused.

I gave up on Civ3.
By moving the Horse down, we explore a potential Capital area.
By moving Dell19's Settler Down Right, it comes to pure green, gaining the city thus founded an extra production etc.
By moving the Settler Straight Right, the city site would include The Hill and it's productive potential.
Ren, what to do with your Northern Settler, I don't know...

This is what I suggest we do. It took some thinking, so I hope it's not too long.


Press the Activate Cheat buttons.

Kill all other civilizations.

Claim victory.

Well that was a waste of a post...

AT - please don't spam up our forum here. We're trying to have some fun here and to play this game properly so that everyone enjoys it and gets something out of it, whether that be a new technique they have not considered before, or a new appreciation for a particular style of play. You may have meant it as a joke, but people have been banned from this site for trying to spoil the previous democracy game by revealing the map and cheating so let this be a warning to anyone who thinks it might be funny to ruin our game.

As I said in the other thread, I'd like to know where the specials are to be found before I build my SSC and with none in sight, I am wary that if we found a city straight off we might spoil the chance of getting a four-special city as the specials may be hidden by the grassland. All I would ask is that the horsemen be moved first on the next turn and then if they spot either a special or a hut Dell consults the grid posted by starlifter to find the fours special locations and builds cities there. We know whereabouts on the map we are, and where one of the huts was so we shouldn't require too much more to work out where the specials pattern will fall. :goodjob:

And I would suggest that we move the horseman ONE space and see what is revealed before taking the second move. It may (or may not ;) ) be important.

That's a good idea, ainwood.

Originally posted by duke o' york
As I said in the other thread, I'd like to know where the specials are to be found before I build my SSC and with none in sight, I am wary that if we found a city straight off we might spoil the chance of getting a four-special city as the specials may be hidden by the grassland. All I would ask is that the horsemen be moved first on the next turn and then if they spot either a special or a hut Dell consults the grid posted by starlifter to find the fours special locations and builds cities there. We know whereabouts on the map we are, and where one of the huts was so we shouldn't require too much more to work out where the specials pattern will fall. :goodjob:

Sorry to rain on the parade, but there is no way we can establish the special pattern from the next two moves, even if the specials are visible (and I think Smash has been sneaky and hidden them all under grass). The likelihood is that we are on the extreme edge of special/hut pattern in which case we have a way to go before finding out what the pattern is.

The big question is how long do we delay founding the capital while trying to establish the position?

Not that long. Its probably more worthwhile to build our capital in the next two turns and then if we find its in a bad spot, then hopefully our second settler will be more successful.

Agree with Dell. There are decent city sites available right now, whatever the specials may prove to be. If we cannot determine the special pattern in the next turn or two, I say we found our capital just to get something going, and then when we do have the pattern figured out, our second settler can (hopefully) found a better city.

I'm in agreement as well, if we wait too long, we risk falling behind in tech and military. Need to get things up and running!

Oh no, Im serious. Press the cheat button. Do it.

by Alpine Trooper:
Oh no, Im serious. Press the cheat button. Do it.


We already heard your suggestion. Good thing I'm not a mod.



BTW, bigfatron is correct about IDing the pattern with certainty in the next 2 turns. There will remain an ambiguity no matter what during the next 2 turns (unless we get lucky and have a river to take us to the proper tiles we need to see to lock it down).

I'd simply slide settler #1 NW and found the Capital after the horseman moves his 4 squares. Fact is we are going to build a city down there sometime (we are not going to ignore that terrain), and it may as well be now.

If a better spot is found, settler #2 can make city#2. Let the horseman pop more huts and get a replacement NONE settler ;).

EDIT: Oops. The "NW" accidently said "NE"... it's fixed now :eek: .

Originally posted by Alpine Trooper
Oh no, Im serious. Press the cheat button. Do it.

You've had some nice reminders, now you get your last warning.

I suggested we use the cheat button? Whats wrong?

I think duke was pretty clear on the issue.

Your posts weren't adding to the game and suggesting doing something that could ruin the game for everyone. That's it, no more discussion about cheat mode. At All.

I have been convinced that we should build the first city after the settler has finished on the road. We will of course have to fill in all the land on our continent and we may as well start as soon as possible. Given that Smash has probably hidden all the specials under grass then I'd think it highly unlikely for there to be rivers anywhere on out starting continent so we will not automatically get any decent trade squares straight off. The road our first settler has been building will be very useful but we may still have to use the sea squares as often as possible to catch up with the AI's tech quite soon. It is no real disaster if we don't make it to philosophy first but if we lose M'sC then we will have a lot of fighting to do before we can start thinking about a good Democracy. If we found the city by the road we have built then we'll get 2 trade, 2 shields and 4 food a turn so it'll only take 5 turns for the first tech (Alphabet it seems) and not much longer for growth. Since we already have a horseman and are well within the turn limit for barbs then I say we should start a settler in the capital and then build warriors and settlers. Once we have grown to size 2 then we can put the extra worker in the sea and get more trade while growing slower! :D

So we will actually have our first city then. It would nice if the domestic advisor made a poll on what we should build in our first city.

sounds like a plan to me.

I have done a few checks and have worked out that the ocean square on the corner is a 4-special location but obviously we can't build there and the next one up is 2 squares northwest of the forest at the top of the uncovered territory although whether it will be possible to build there once we get to it is another matter. I suspect not.

Originally posted by duke o' york
I have done a few checks and have worked out that the ocean square on the corner is a 4-special location but obviously we can't build there and the next one up is 2 squares northwest of the forest at the top of the uncovered territory although whether it will be possible to build there once we get to it is another matter. I suspect not.
How do you work that out? I thought there were still 10 possible locations for us based on the hut/special pattern posted in another thread? But i may well have missed something....

I have made a little graphic of where I am pretty certain we are basically by colouring in the squares on the special grid the right colours for the different terrain we can see but unfortunately all I have at work is Paint so I can neither clip the image smaller than the A4 screen you get automatically nor save it as a .gif so that it can be uploaded to the CFC server but Duke has agreed to do this for me and hopefully all should become clear when he posts it. :D

I have managed, using only Win98 2nd edition & its Paint.
My notes:
Windows Win98 System Incantations
1-26-02 AltPrtSc, then MsWord CtrlV
or IN466 Paint CtrlV, SaveAs Jpg

Which I believe means:
Begin in Civ2, perhaps fullscreen or partial, AltPrtSc
Then in MS Word, which I later discovered didn't matter,
So in Paint, CtrlV Paste and the image appears.
I then clipped, saved, chopped, New and CtrlV again, whatever.
Kept the Civ2 image available, so I could start over.
Finally, SaveAs Jpg, and it works:
<a href="http://www.ePlanOffice.com/Hampton/Greece.jpg" target="_blank">www.ePlanOffice.com/Hampton/Greece18.jpg</a>

I wasn't using Civ though - just an image like the one in this post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=387313#post387313) to show whereabouts I believe we are. My version of Paint only allows the option of saving as a .bmp in varying numbers of colours, and there is no chance of saving as a .jpg
I keep saying .gif instead of .jpg so please excuse me for any confusing mentions I may have made here and elsewhere. :(

Here's duke's picture.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Hut_Pattern.jpg

Good graphic, DoY!

Just so everyone knows, that pattern DoY posted can currently be applied to 10 distinctly different huts in the master pattern. At this time, we can't be narrow it down to the particular hut DoY used for this graphic. But you can "overlay" his color pattern to any of the non-X'd out huts in the master pattern.

A "typical" goal of exploration is to establish the pattern, and know where the huts will be.... and to know which grasslands should be mined/transformed to give the specials they are "hiding".

:)

Well I'm afraid that it has been such a long time since I played Classic, I can't remember whether the world map applies in the same way as the PS version does, but I have assumed that you are always shown on the map whereabouts you are, and it isn't centralised or anything. The graphic is only a small portion of the hut pattern, taken from the bottom centre, which explains why there is only a single hut and a single special on the bottom row. I wasn't going to post the whole lot for the reasons I asked Duke to clip and convert the image for me but this is taken from the bottom middle and it shouldn't be too difficult to work out where we are and plan further exploration from there on the graphic starlifter posted and I linked to up there somewhere. :)
From what the graphic shows, we will get two convertible (;)) specials if we found where we decided to, and be able to build a harbour eventually for the lucrative ocean tiles. :D Does anyone know the special seed so that they can predict which specials will appear in each of the two squares if we convert them? I know that there are two groups and that would help a lot if we can work out which of the two (or either, or neither) would turn into a silk square when forested. This would be a great boost for trade, as I don't think making a hill would be entirely worth our while yet in the hope of some wine. Advice on the special seed would be much appreciated. :goodjob:
So we seem to have decided what to do for the time being - shall we get some extra turns played then?

To clarify, are you asking if anyone knows how to predict what specific special will appear where (for hidden ones in particular)?? I agree - we don't really want to have to wait for terraforming to realise a special.

I've never really studied the specials, and so I have to ask the question: For hidden specials, is the square actually flagged as a "special" or as a specific type of special? Ie - can we forest it to get silk, or hill it to get wine, or do we get what we get? I would presume that it is the latter.

Yes, I am asking whether we will get a pheasant or a silk square if we forest one of the grasslands and whether we get a buffalo or a wheat if we make it a plains. These are the two groups of specials and they will appear in a set order across the map but I don't know if we have to discover one special to know where the others will be for definite or if there will always be the same set in the same place. If you make the whole world plains then you'll see which ones become wheat and which buffalo and I'm pretty certain that these two types are constant for each game but obviously cannot check at work.

Does anyone know the special seed so that they can predict which specials will appear in each of the two squares if we convert them?
I can do that, but will not because there is no way to derive that information from normal game functions. There are 65,536 seed values, of which 65,534 are actually used to create the specific fish/whale combos.

However, you can note the full 8-special contents on "row 1", and that same pattern will be repeated on every other row (3, 5, ,etc.). You can likewise note the internal pattern of the 8-special on the 2nd row, and it will be on the 4th, 6th, etc.

Unfortunately, it takes revealing a lot of the map to have a shot at filling in this level of detail, so I don't normally try and predict whether a specific tile will be a fish-type or a whale-type. I just identify the orientation of the special/hut pattern, then simply mine the grassland, and if it turns out to be a pheasant when in republic or democracy, irrigate it without delay into a buffalo. Silk is almost always good (unless food is critical, then you just irrigate it to a wheat).

:)