http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads/orbibanner_DxQ.jpg

The purpose of this mod is to add more flavor to economy, combat and civilizations in Fall from Heaven 2. Some mechanics from warlords & BtS that are not used in FfH were added.

Download here: 0.22 (http://files.filefront.com/OrbisSetup022exe/;13509658;/fileinfo.html) (changelog in the next post)
Patch: 0.22 b (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=10008) (breaks saves)
Quickfix (requires full patch): None ATM
Detalied documentation (outdated...): Orbis documentation 0.14 c.pdf (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=10000) (Pdf reader required)

Installation: Just download and follow the instructions. It does not overwrite FfH directory, but you have to install FfH 2 (040) and patch it to y (http://kael.civfanatics.net/files/FfH2040y.exe) first.
Note: Be sure to check if the right folder is chosen ("Orbis"). The default one might be Fall Further or an earlier version of Orbis.
Also, RUN ONE GAME IN PLAY NOW MODE TO CLEAR GAME OPTIONS (you do not have to play it, just start one). If your units can't heal, you can't build anything or research is disabled you did not do it and some options from other mods are messing with Orbi options. More info here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7580362&postcount=460).

Up to date source included in the main downloads, can be found in mod folder
The most heavily changed xml files are in Orbi.xlsm, a modified FfH editor. Look for red (changed) & green (added) parts.
You can get it here: Orbis.xlsm 0.22 b (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=10083) (office 2007 required)

Main Features

New civilizations:
Mechanos (steampunk civ)
Scions of Patria (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=300307) by Tarqueline (from Fall Further)
Mazatl - jungle lizards (from Fall Further)
Flavoured Doviello - totems, werewolves & shapechanging mages
More magic for Amurites
11 Guilds – 9 BtS-style (corporations), 2 "flavor" ones. Guildmasters have unique abilities.
Three-field order – food stock, farmer can discover new farm/plantation resources
Bank of Vivaldi – bank network, banker can improve economy of the city
Hansa – merchant company, trader is a combat unit, can conduct trade missions
Prospector’s Guild – dwarven miner’s guild, prospector is dwarven combat unit, can discover mine/quarry resources
Globe troupe – wandering artists, thespian can add culture to a city
Circle of transmuters – alchemists, provides reagents, alchemist can add research
Order of Arches – architects and cathedral builders, archtect can hurry building
Intricate Weavers – cloth makers, weaver can establish a temporary tapestry workshop
Circle of Eight - mages, magister can cast metamagic I & II spells

Guild of the Nine - expanded mercenaries (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=285468)
Ratcatchers Guild - thieves, espionage

Cult of the dragon as unadoptable religion
Civ-specific pagan temples for all civilizations
Added many and changed even more buildings
Reworked units – no more melee domination. Ranged attack for archers & siege engines
Melee – city attackers and mounted counter (polearm line is back)
Archery – city defenders, ranged attackers
Mounted – field domination, hit & run tactics (increased withdrawal rate, both attack & defensive - be careful with these wolf riders...), siege engines counter (flanking)
Siege – no more direct attacks; have weak strength and powerful ranged attack; need to be guarded all the time, unless you want enemy to capture them; get some free xp to compensate for not being able to fight
Naval – deep changes, some ships removed, some added; have ranged attack, do collateral damage
Great generals generated form combat experience
Explorable animal dens
More diverse terrain
New feature – swamp
Forest & jungle gives normal commerce bonus at the river bank, jungle +1 hammer
Added several new resources, one removed (gunpowder)
Trolls and their ruins in the swamps – only removable with swamp draining
Tech tree and technological requirements changed, rebalanced civics
Spell changes - no more priest/mages, each priest has set number of spells.
Other flavor additions: more unit graphics, more civ-specific art styles .
Tweaked Lairs

And much more...


Credits:
Fall from Heaven Team - the greatest of all mods
Fall Further Team - I am stealing a lot ;)
Main Menu theme: image Dana Daukshta, music Host of Seraphim by Dead Can Dance
Mechanos theme - Ben Houge (the wheel clan theme from Arcanum), leader art by Justin Sweet
Ideas stolen: Fall Further (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=292120), Apepis (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=261997), , sputnik 323 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=295902), Marnok, Tarqueline (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=270138), MagisterCultuum, Jabie, MaxAstro (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=7409557#post7409557)
Graphics:seZereth, Woodelf, Danrell, Hrochland, C.Roland, Master Lexx (GreenMod), Psychic_Llamas and whole Warhammer Mod, Vehem and Fall Further modmod, Refar, Chamaedrys, Chuggi, GarretSidzaka, Rishardas
Code help: Xienwolf, Sto!

Also: my girlfriend for suggesting troll lairs. If you do not like trolls and swamp ruins, I will let her know ;)
Included mods:
Expanded mercenaries (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=285468) by westamastaflash
FlavourMod 2 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=282901) by Jean Elcard

Changelog moved to separate thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=315884)

CotD & guilds in 0.14 and beyond
In addition to old Orbi guilds I have kept some 0.33 ones.

Cult of the dragon
Unadoptable religion, founded by event only possible for dragon owning civilizations: Kuriotate, Sheaim and Mazatl.
Spreads just like other religions, but no disciples (high autospread).
Retained all 0.33 unrest events (above mentioned civs and Illians do not get them)
Cult of the dragon promotion is granted to 20% units build in the city (actually 20% of the ones that did not get other religion). Roar makes them to convert, but also scares other units

Circle of Eight
Founded by great sage, requires sorcery. Uses metamagic, mind & enchantment mana plus reagents, produces science. Arcane units build in cities with CoEi get some XP and potency promotion for free (might change it to let amurite get bonus too)
Spread by acolytes (arcane unit, starts with Metamagic I & II, but without free promotion, can build mind, metamagic & enchantment nodes, upgrades to mage)

Ratcatchers Guild
Spy Guild. Requires poisons, ratcatcher (guildmaster) can conduct espionage missions

Guild of the nine
Works as in 0.13, with expanded mercenaries and standard mercenaries as separate spells (because of the OOS caused by expanded mercs)

I quite like the look of some of these. I'll have a play and then give some proper feedback.

Looks interesting. I was planning on making the same basic changes to the units as you did, and might even decide to go ahead and include this whole modmod in my modmod.


Just to be clear, these 8 guilds are in addition to the normal FFH ones, not replacing them, right? I don't want to get rid of any of the current ones, but adding new ones could be nice.

Looks interesting. I was planning on making the same basic changes to the units as you did, and might even decide to go ahead and include this whole modmod in my modmod.

You are welcome. It probabably needs a lot of playtesting to balance, but so far works fine.

Just to be clear, these 8 guilds are in addition to the normal FFH ones, not replacing them, right? I don't want to get rid of any of the current ones, but adding new ones could be nice.

I have not touched any of the normal guilds (well, I included the fix for circle of gaelan by Xienwolf). That are the addition, that is why I need another row. Now the line is very long and I had to resize the icons down to make them all display in the city screen.

In general, I tried not to remove more than a few units or buildings if I decided they are not needed (siege workshop for example - I merged it with mechanists shop).

sounds interesting - especially the new guilds

So far I'm loving the modmod. It feels a lot more like FfH did back in 0.16 (when I first started playing FfH, before Kael tried streamlining everything), plus most of what I liked about BtS. I do think I'll probably simplify the tech tree a little though, and rename/rebalanced a few things when I include in in MagisterModmod.

I like the new features and resources. Could you see about adding a Coral Reef feature? I've added one in my version (which adds a hammer but is more noteworthy for being impassible to ships), but the xenofungus graphics I borrowed from Planentfall really don't look right. You seem better with graphics than I am. (I tend to avoid them entirely, and usually not even borrowing from other mods.)

Edit: I just noticed that it is now impossible to use Inquisition, as Inquisitor requires channeling 2 and no disciple has this promotion.

So far I'm loving the modmod. It feels a lot more like FfH did back in 0.16 (when I first started playing FfH, before Kael tried streamlining everything), plus most of what I liked about BtS. I do think I'll probably simplify the tech tree a little though, and rename/rebalanced a few things when I include in in MagisterModmod.

Thanks :) I like diversity, especially if it serves something and there was too much streamlining in FfH for my taste recently.
As for the tech tree, what would you cut? I think I added 4 techs total. Also, what do you think need rebalancing?

I like the new features and resources. Could you see about adding a Coral Reef feature? I've added one in my version, but the xenofungus graphics I borrowed from Planentfall really don't look right. You see better with graphics than I am. (I tend to avoid them entirely.)

Well, I am not so good at making graphics either. Most of them I got from this site or from other mods. I just could not stand 5 buildings in the city looking like barracks.
As for the coral reef, I will think about it, but I do not recall anything that would look good as it. I also think about adding kelp as a coast feature - adding some food and possibly slowing down ships. I loved planting it everywhere in alpha centauri...

Edit: I just noticed that it is now impossible to use Inquisition, as Inquisitor requires channeling 2 and no disciple has this promotion.

Yeah, it is been a while since I used it so I forgot to change it when I moved from direct xml editing to using Kael's editor. Quick fix below - requirement moved to divine.
Edit: no longer needed - fix included in the patch

nice looking mod here, a lot of things that youve fixed were bugging me (archers being crap and melee dominance for instanc), and ive never been a fan of the useless guilds as they are.

I've been pleasantly surprised that Naval battles have been rather important so far. It could always be improved though. Some suggestions:

Let Naval units get Blitz (Firaxis did this in BtS anyway)

Add Fireships, which are weak but (like Pyre Zombies, and probably using the same python code) explode when defeated.

(If this were FF, I'd probably suggest adding this ability though a promotion, but the python post combat tags don't exist in the vanilla schema.)

Let the Strongest Naval and Siege units using Bombing instead of (or in addition to) Bombarding.

Give the Amurites some magic-based naval UUs, which should at least have access to air magic.

Make most ships (but not Ironclads) weak to fire.


Make Boarding available to Melee units, requiring something like Military Strategy and the Amphibious and Combat V promotions. (Amphibious is weaker in FfH, because Water Walking performs the same function and more. This woud make the promotion more valuble)

Make the Lanun Harbor UB grant Boarding. Also, it might be a good idea to remove the Boarding Part UU and allow the Lanun build their Champions (and Pikemen) without needing a harbor (since that weakens them on maps with little water).

I'm thinking it could be good for (most) ships to gain the ability to move in oceans at Astronomy.



I'm thinking that I don't really like the Guild Executives having a unitcombat or strength. I was thinking it could be cool of Miners could build Mines (maybe even on peaks? I'll probably edit the SDK to make this possible, and to make things like mithril more common there.) and Architects could build Forts faster than workers can. It might be nice for all the executives to have some other abilities. Maybe architects could rush (a little, not as much as Soldiers of Kilmorph), traders could perform trade missions (like great merchants, but less gold), Actors (which should be renamed Thespians) could give a little culture, etc. It might be good for some executives to be able to upgrade to appropriate units.

I'm not a fan of the name Intricate Weavers. I'm thinking "Lords of the Loom" could be nice.

"Hansa" doesn't seem descriptive enough, imho. I'm not sure what I'd like to call it though.

I was just thinking that it could be nice to implement the Balseraph religion, The Stewards of Inequity, as a guild. Most of those who follow Mammon don't realize they are participating in a religion anyway, viewing it instead as a guild to serve to keep themselves rich and the poor poor. What would be a good implementation for that? Creating crime/corruption, using up luxury resources, creating happiness in the headquarters and unhappiness elsewhere? I think it has been said that Mammon's followers have very important positions in every guild, so maybe this guild could synergize with others instead of competing? Or steal their profits? It should probably also be tied to the Undercouncil somehow.

It seems odd to me that Alchemy Labs have no real connection to the Circle of Transmuters. I'd probably try streamlining a lot of things to make guilds more integrated in the main game instead of simply being additional features.




Edit: I don't like how the barbarian warriors look.

Did you mean to allow mines to be built without clearing forests?

Thanks for all the good words people. Especially for suggestions and checking the mod, Magister :)
I like many of them. Not all though. But keep them coming :D
Let Naval units get Blitz (Firaxis did this in BtS anyway)
Add Fireships, which are weak but (like Pyre Zombies, and probably using the same python code) explode when defeated.
I did not even noticed that they can not get blitz. Fixed it.
As for the fireships, not a bad idea. I am thinking on the kamikaze ship that explodes when reaching target. But will it be really useful?
Let the Strongest Naval and Siege units using Bombing instead of (or in addition to) Bombarding.
Give the Amurites some magic-based naval UUs, which should at least have access to air magic.
Make most ships (but not Ironclads) weak to fire.
I am not sure if it is possible to enable bombing for non-air units. Also, they already have strong ranged attack. Will it change that much, except the ability to destroy improvements?
The amurite wind ship is a great idea, frigate or clipper replacement UU? I think rather frigate, as it would come earlier and clipper is not a real combat ship.
The fire weakness makes sense, but don't you think it will make arcane barges too strong? And make fire sphere even more powerful than it is?
Make Boarding available to Melee units, requiring something like Military Strategy and the Amphibious and Combat V promotions. [...] it might be a good idea to remove the Boarding Part UU and allow the Lanun build their Champions (and Pikemen) without needing a harbor
Well, in my mod neither lanun champions or boarding party need harbor. I also prefer to keep boarding a lanun-only. Also, imagine water walking boarding phalaxes... I will give boarding parties 50% bonus against mounted - less than other pikeman, but still something.
As for the amphibius, I will give it bonuses to fight in the swamps. Not much bonus, but always something.
I'm thinking it could be good for (most) ships to gain the ability to move in oceans at Astronomy.
I do not want ocean-travelling galleys. Most of the other ships already can cross ocean squares, so only the cog remains. And when you have astronomy, you should already upgrade everything to ocean travelling vessels anyway, as they come with optics.
I'm thinking that I don't really like the Guild Executives having a unitcombat or strength. It might be nice for all the executives to have some other abilities.
Great ideas :) The only thing I am worried about is if it will cause any problems - that is why it was removed from hunters etc.
Any suggestions for the upgrading paths?
Actors renamed, your name is much better :)
I have removed unitcombat. They do not already have strength,but I am thinking of introducing it for a trader.
I'm not a fan of the name Intricate Weavers. I'm thinking "Lords of the Loom" could be nice.
"Hansa" doesn't seem descriptive enough, imho. I'm not sure what I'd like to call it though.
Well weavers come from intricate webweaver, a trait from crusader kings ;). But I will not stick to it. Well, but I do not like "Lords of the loom" either...
And Hansa is named after the first european trading organization and a great naval power. It was main trading power in the northern Europe and a reason for a few wars... I really like the name, and I do not think all names should be descriptive. It might be even better if they do not.
I was just thinking that it could be nice to implement the Balseraph religion, The Stewards of Inequity, as a guild.
Good idea, something in line with cult of the dragon - foundable only by Balseraph?
Synergy with other guilds and esus is a must in my opinion. But then we would really need a second row of guild icons, as it would be the 16 ;)
I need to read more about it before I will try to implement it. Any place I should check?
It seems odd to me that Alchemy Labs have no real connection to the Circle of Transmuters. I'd probably try streamlining a lot of things to make guilds more integrated in the main game instead of simply being additional features.
Well, I am not sure if alchemists should have another bonus - they already provide reagents. But if you think so...
As for the streamlining, it is a good idea. I would also like some guilds to come earlier, as now a few are at the end of the tech tree.
Edit: I don't like how the barbarian warriors look.
Did you mean to allow mines to be built without clearing forests?
Barbarian warriors are warhammer orcs - do not fit as good as I would like them to but I quite like them anyway. What is more important, I have nothing to replace them if I want to have all melee orc have unique look. The old warriors are pikman now ;)
And mines under forests is intetional - mine was also reduced by 1 hammer (but it gets other bonuses with techs). You need to decide if to cut down this hill forest for immediate hammer gain or keep it for later and health bonus.

Edit: this is a looong post ;)

Thanks for all the suggestions and checking the mod :) I like many of them. Not all though. But keep them coming :D

I did not even noticed that they can not get blitz. Fixed it.
As for the fireships, not a bad idea. I am thinking on the kamikaze ship that explodes when reaching target. But will it be really useful?
I think so. I was thinking it would be a cheap, very weak unit, which poorer civs would use to defend against stronger navies. You could also make it an upgrade for the early ships, so you could get some use out of these obsolete vessels for a nominal upgrade cost (every upgrade costs at least 5 gold). (Or you could implement it via a promotion in FF.)

I am not sure if it is possible to enable bombing for non-air units. Also, they already have strong ranged attack. Will it change that much, except the ability to destroy improvements?
I thought it would work fine, but I just checked and it doesn't seem possible. I glanced at the SDK and I think that commenting out a single if statement would allow it. I'll be using a custom DLL (mostly the Fall Further DLL, but with a few minor changes) anyway, but I don't think it is worth it for this modmod.

The amurite wind ship is a great idea, frigate or clipper replacement UU? I think rather frigate, as it would come earlier and clipper is not a real combat ship.
The fire weakness makes sense, but don't you think it will make arcane barges too strong? And make fire sphere even more powerful than it is?

I hadn't really decided which unit it should be. Just for testing, I gave them a Man O War UU with arcane, channeling 1-2, fire 2, air 1, and meta magic 1. Having more than one arcane ship UU would be fine by me.

I don't think it would be too strong if the other ships had more greater base strength. I also don't consider Fire all that powerful--that is, compared with the other spell spheres in my version.

Well, in my mod neither lanun champions or boarding party need harbor. I also prefer to keep boarding a lanun-only. Also, imagine water walking boarding phalaxes... I will give boarding parties 50% bonus against mounted - less than other pikeman, but still something.
As for the amphibius, I will give it bonuses to fight in the swamps. Not much bonus, but always something.

How exactly would the Phalanx become Water Walking? (It might be possible in my version, but not without some downsides.)

I was saying it should have very high requirements (although you modmod would let it come sooner, and so it should probably be moved.)

Yeah, a bonus in swamps would be nice. Maybe a bonus in Jungles too? Real life jungles tend to be flooded much of the year Oh, and Flood Planes to.

Great ideas :) The only thing I am worried about is if it will cause any problems - that is why it was removed from hunters etc.
Any suggestions for the upgrading paths?
Actors renamed, your name is much better :)
I have removed unitcombat. They do not already have strength,but I am thinking of introducing it for a trader.

I'm not really sure what caused the problems before. I think it may have had to do with them having both combat and worker AIs. Hopefully a non-combat unit wouldn't cause such problems. Unfortunately, I suspect it probably will; letting Great Engineers build things caused WoC errors last time I tried it. I'll test it, but may have to remove it. If it does cause problems, you could give the builds to seperate units that also rely on the guild, or make the guild be spread though a spell instead of the normal mechanism.



Good idea, something in line with cult of the dragon - foundable only by Balseraph?
Synergy with other guilds and esus is a must in my opinion. But then we would really need a second row of guild icons, as it would be the 16 ;)
I need to read more about it before I will try to implement it. Any place I should check?

Maybe, but on the other hand more people in more empires (unknowingly) worship Mammon than any other god. (His hell gets perhaps more souls than all the other evil gods' combined.) As such, it might be appropriate for it to be availible even when the Balseraphs are not there.


I thought I remembered reading more about the Stewards, but this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6416917&postcount=6) is the only post I could find where Kael explained them. (Most of what I found in my search had been written by me.)


Well, I am not sure if alchemists should have another bonus - they already provide reagents. But if you think so...
As for the streamlining, it is a good idea. I would also like some guilds to come earlier, as now a few are at the end of the tech tree.

Barbarian warriors are warhammer orcs - do not fit as good as I would like them to but I quite like them anyway. What is more important, I have nothing to replace them if I want to have all melee orc have unique look. The old warriors are pikman now ;)
And mines under forests is intetional - mine was also reduced by 1 hammer (but it gets other bonuses with techs). You need to decide if to cut down this hill forest for immediate hammer gain or keep it for later and health bonus.

Edit: this is a looong post ;)

Many thanks for sharing this Ahwaric. In my opinion you've made a great mod push towards perfect. :goodjob:

I've barely been able to finish one game but so far I've encountered no serious bugs. Just a few entries in the Civilopedia that seem to have been displaced.

I too was pleasantly suprised to see the difference in naval warfare, and if this is something you have time to improve further then that's excellent news. Fits perfectly with the "Hansa" as well. ;)

I'm not too sure about the fireships idea. Sounds like something that the AI could handle a bit too well, so to speak.

Love the facelift you did on the barbarians. Less spiky, more thuggy.

Many thanks for sharing this Ahwaric. In my opinion you've made a great mod push towards perfect. :goodjob:
Thanks a lot! :blush: And at last I am sure Magister is not the only one that tried my modmod ;)

I fixed some problems and added some features. The patch a is in the first post, I have added changelog to the second one. I have also listed what I am trying to do now.

I too was pleasantly suprised to see the difference in naval warfare, and if this is something you have time to improve further then that's excellent news.
I'm not too sure about the fireships idea. Sounds like something that the AI could handle a bit too well, so to speak.

Yeah, suicide attacks are part of AI's personality. I am not sure about fireships either. Have to think about it and probably do some tests.
I definitely want to further improve naval combat (and land one, too). If you have any ideas, I will be happy to hear them. Right now I am out of mine...
I thought about ships and fire weaknes - it would require adding a promotion for all the ships. So the ironclads upgraded from earliel ships would inherit it too. I am not so sure they should have it - if ships do, why not catapults or almost every unit that is in the city (flame inside the city walls, in partially wooden city, is disastrous...)

Apart from the things listed in "working on", I am thinking if to make every guild present in a city provide a low (5%) bonus to city defences.
In the city I live, towers of the city walls were named after different guilds responsible for defending/guarding them in case of a siege. I think it was quite common in medieval/renaissance period. So, stronger merchants in the city & better guild organization - better city defence :)
That would mean improving the brotherhood of wardens bonus, too - currently it is just 10%

I still like the idea. They should probably be limited to coasts (these are either very old or very cheaply made ships, so they aren't very seaworthy), be slow, have basically no defensive strength, and maybe have a national limit.

Just wanted to drop in and show my appreciation. I really enjoy the tweaks & additions that you're making. Glad I stumbled across your modmod. I haven't had a chance to get far into the game as yet but I'll let you know if I have any insights or requests.

The only thing I've seen that I miss somewhat are palisades. Granted, I'm no great strategist when it comes to this game but I simply liked the idea of an early, cheap, defensive wall that can be improved.

Keep up the good work. :goodjob:

I have removed palisades because I have already added 10% defense bonus for every city - so let's say palisade is included in the settler starting package.
I just want every city to be a better place for defending than open field. I was thinking of making palisade really cheap. But as there is no way to remove building after building another one (is there ?), I decided that I prefer this way than having both palisade and walls in one city...
I have also reintroduced citadel, so the city defences can be upgraded :)

Ah I see. Sounds good. :D

Next thing I noticed so far is that you can't delete battering rams. I'm gathering quite the collection heh. I'd like to be able to dismantle those guys if possible.

Thanks Ahwaric.

After a day of hard work I have finally finished making more or less detailed documentation of this modmod. It is linked in the first post. I hope it helps :)

I have found some minor (?) bugs on the way and fixed them. Also, I did some minor rebalancing on pagan temples. I will include all this stuff in the next patch.

As for the battering rams, this is probably a result of treating them as equipment which allows them to be carried as a promotion. I will try to find a way to destroy them. If the normal way will not be possible, I will do it the spell way.

Will try to post a fixed version tomorrow.

But as there is no way to remove building after building another one (is there ?)

There is, but it's not that "tidy".

(a) Hook the cannotConstruct function in Python to check that the city doesn't already have walls when it tries to build a Palisade (block the Palisade if it does).
(b) Hook onBuildingBuilt such that when Walls are created, Palisades are removed.

The combination of the two means that you can't rebuild Palisades after walls are constructed.

Nice mod Ahwaric
a few things i noticed so far
1.) there is a bug with the lairs you can pillage where you get insane amounts
of money (17000000+ i think i read somewhere in the marnok thread about it)
got this with the bannor only so far
2.)many events like the mushroom spawning and vulcanoes eruption trigger
often but in player territory there is only the first time any effect
3.)i really like the guilds (i play preferably on huge earth maps and conquest
win option) but i think the alchemist guild should be a bit rebalanced
i got more than 600 research in every city i spread it to(with 30 citys on the huge map not beeing much) thats a lot of beakers and even on marathon speed you got nearly every tech in only one turn
4.)about the fireship mentioned above
i think it shouldn´t be a unit itself but maybe a spelllike promotion available
with millitary strategy or warfare, which makes any ship you activate it on a fireship
maybe a new tech: naval tactics, new building: marine academy which adds the promotion to ships build in this city

5.)don´t know if you did anything to the Ai and it´s naval tactics but at least if the Ai found a guild by itself it build up huge fleets and you´ll see a constant traffic of all availlable ships on your coasts
spreading the guild, also they try to use it in war
last game as the bannor, Amelanchier was a naval power rivalling my best Lanun Games and often transported stacks of up to 12 units into my not so well defended backcountry, not mentioned how annoying it was finding all his little citys he settled anywhere on far away small islands
all in all i like how the ai use the navy now

6.)about the Amurite Frigate: i really like the idea (one of my favorite civs),do you think it´s possible
in the future to use the techunits replacements for them as well? (Warwizard, Siege-Mage)

@ Rawn
1.) that is a known Marnok Mod(Explorable Lairs) bug. I'm not sure if Marnok has fixed it in more recent versions of his modmod, but I do know that Ahwaric didn't create that bug.
2.)That is a well known FfH bug, not specific to any modmod

4.) I think that it would probably be better to work though a promotion too, but the schema doesn't really permit that. Ahwaric would have to use a custom DLL to allow this. (He could just borrow the Fall Further DLL.)

@ Magister
1.) i didn´t follow the marnok thread recently, so i don´t know if he has fixed it was just a thing i noticed

2.)didn´t know that, was just the first time i noticed it

4.)i don´t know what is possible to do or not to do in creating such abbilities
i thought it maybe could be done like the pirate-raid promotion he already use

A comment about Battering Ram; they really need to expire somehow, perhaps be destroyed when their host unit is destroyed. I've gotten to the point of using Soviet conscript-style Mercenary-Battering Ram swarm with over 30 Battering Rams, despite having not built a single one.

Also, melee units that simply have +x% collateral damage don't actually seem to do collateral damage. (This also happens with Mimics who defeat catapults in normal FFH.) I think they might be missing some flag or promotion that allows them to do collateral damage in the first place. This means the +10% collateral damage from the battering ram has no noticeable effect.

You can also "pass around the Ram". Bombard, split the Ram. Have another unit take the Ram, Bombard again. It essentially allows you to use a Battering Ram twice a turn. I might've seen the AI do this once.


By the way, this is a great mod. If only there were a way to combine this with FF. =)

Just about to try this out. The changes look awesome from the documentation I've read...

Also... you've included magocracy... I love you :D

Al

I was just looking through the main text file and found there are already a few references to the Stewards of Inequity


Commerce is the lifeblood of an empire. A farmer sells his prize horse to buy seed for next season, and the tax collector takes enough off the top to equip a footman. A noble buys a tapestry imported from across the continent, and the King's campaign can continue for another month. As such, it is not discontent that is the greatest threat to a ruler's ambition. Bread and carnivals can asuage unhappiness, or garrison troops should those measures fail. Rather a people's satisfaction has the potential to deplete the treasury and starve an empire. If the farmer is content with a smaller gain, from where does the soldier's arms come? If the noble is pleased with his bare halls, shall the war end sooner? Indeed, if the soldiers themselves do not yearn for a better life than their fathers, why will they quite the farm for a mercenary life?

In light of this, the Stewards of Inequity make an offer which even rulers devout of Junil have a hard time declining. Let the royal market be seeded with a relic of the King of Avarice here, or one of his praying acoyltes there. Let his temples be unmolested in your capital. The people's hearts shall take up a little-- just a little--greed. So will their labors be intensified with avarice, and the nation profit.

Alas, such hubris has brought down empires. There is no such thing as a little greed, for Mammon is not a master content to share his subjects, and a people enslaved by their own base appetites are rare to rouse to the nobler callings of man.

Your financial advisor reports that the economy of %s2_city is suffering. It could be the work of a few corrupt merchants, or the actions of the Stewards of Inequity. How should we respond?


1.) There is little we can do.

2.) For a slight bribe the Ratcatchers Guild can handle this for us.

3.) The priests of Kilmorph will not be happy to learn that their tithes are being stolen, allow them to deal with the situation as they please.

Consider this: The value of the coins I hold just now is completely illusory. They only have value because the majority of citizens in our society recognize them as effective bargaining material, but the moment a disaster strikes--drought, war, revolution, flood or famine--our money will be worthless, as it has no practical value in the following struggle for survival.--Dengrahl Lern, Stewards of Inequity


If there is a finite amount of a resource, then it cannot be equally allocated. As with water where there are oceans there will also be deserts. What better method do we have to see that gold is distributed unevenly than the hand of government and the concept of taxation?--Dengrahl Lern, Stewards of Inequity


I think that an actual Stewards of Inequity guild should be relevant in all of these places. Currency and Taxation should of course be important techs for the religion, probably meaning you need Currency to found it and Taxation for its unique building.

I'm leaning towards making The Bazaar of Mammon once again be a world wonder instead of being a national wonder, and having it also found the Stewards. You leave it buildable, or require a great merchant to found it. I was thinking ti would be appropriate for it to boost the commerce you get from Merchants/Great Merchants (and Bards/Great Bards?) (similar to the Guild of Hammers, Great Library, and Theatre of Dreams), but also decrease the yields/commeces of Priests/Great Prophets (and Sages/Great Sages?). Then, just to make sure it is overpowered, why not go ahead and make it provide Mind mana? If it is buildable and not made by a Great Merchant then requiring Mind mana to build it would make sense too.

I was thinking it would make sense for the Stewards UB to grant something like +4 happiness in that city and +1 unhappiness in all cities. Their whole philosophy is that life is a zero-sum game, in which they must work to make themselves better off at the expense of others. Whatever this Guild does to make some happy makes more unhappy. Those hurt by their greed are forced to compete by acting exactly the same way, which makes things worse for others and and means they need to be more ruthlessly greedy too.

Naturally, it should cost money in the cities and generate in in the Headquarters, like all the BtS guilds.


I'm thinking there should be multiple versions of that corrupt merchant event, with some of them tied to the Stewards and others not. If you own the headquarters of the guild, then you would get some very favorable options (like taking a cut of the merchants profits) from the merchant's illicit profits. If the merchants aren't already in the guild, perhaps you would have the option of inviting them to join, spreading the guild there and maybe giving you the building for free.










Completely unrelated, but since you got the mushrooms to look like mushrooms in the city screen I assume that you are better with tga files that I am. I really think that the Religions should be rearranged in line with their alignments, instead of Fol -Order-OO-RoK-AV-Empyrean-CoEsus is a really odd order. It is very easy to rearrange the order that these religions appear in in the religion screen by rearranging them in CIV4ReligionInfos.xml, but when you do that they don;t use the right Icons. You have to also rearrange them in the tga file. I tried doing this once, but messed up. (Using my tga, the Order's symbol was a banana.)

Using my tga, the Order's symbol was a banana.

Sounds about right to me.

Patch b is linked in the first post. It does not break save games.

I fixed (hopefully) battering ram problems. Also, circle of transmuters will not grant instant techs any more.
Prospectors (renamed from miners) can now actually discover new resources. I could not (do not know how) prevent doing it on already existing resources, so be carefull.

This patch is bigger, as I have included editor in it. I will post it separately from time to time from now on. Package includes documentation, but documentation link was updated too

Thanks guys for all your support and bug reporting :)

@ Vehem
Good to know there is such a way and thanks for letting me know. But as my python skills are bad, I will keep it as it is. I quite like it anyway.
By the way, thanks for letting me to use Maztal in this modmod. It will probably take some time, but I will try to get lizzies here :)

@Raize
I have nothing against using this mod or it's parts in other mods. But it will take some time before I will merge it with FF, if I ever do. It should not be so hard though, as I do not use SDK, and if I do, it will probably be Vehem's.
As for the collateral damage, battering ram promotion does not give it. It only gives some bombarding ability, which is only used against walls.

@Rawn
As Magister said, most of it is not my fault and I tried to fix what is mine in patch b. But I will check Marnok's thread and fix it here if he found what is causing it.

@Magister
Thanks for the info. I really like the idea of Stewards. I am trying to find a way for it to interact with other guilds, but for now I can't find an easy way of doing that. I will keep on trying ;) But I do not think I will change bazaar to a world wonder, I like to have national wonders to specialize cities.
As for the rearranging religions icons, editing res files is a real pain. I think even the original ones from FfH are not perfect. I may try do it, but it takes time and I am a bit short on it now. Just in case, do we agree on the order: order/empyrean/RoK/FoL/CoE/Overlords/Veil?

Edit: regarding the Ai, I did not really do anything. I just tried to choose the right unitAIs for my new ships. Maybe the increase in usefulness changed this? Or is it the new Ai that Kael written for FfH. Anyway, I am glad it works better.

You got it backwards. AV/OO/Esus/FoL/RoK/Empy/Order :p

Not sure why, but I always list them in order by alignment myself, and always start with Evil (maybe alphabetical influence? :dunno:)

Actual reason you have it backwards though: The further Esus is from the front of the list, the worse your chances of a Unit adopting them as a religion upon building. Thus your way you have to keep 4 mostly beneficial religions out of the city, my way you only have to keep 2 out of the city, and 1 you don't want there to begin with (AV, due to Hyborem's Whisper)

I was just looking through the main text file and found there are already a few references to the Stewards of Inequity


I actually had a lot of Stewards of Inequity implemented as a religion before the release of Fall Further 030 (Mammon linked), but some of the DLL code added for them was causing trouble so I pulled it out and tabled them to work on later.

That implementation basically revolved around extra gold for certain "dubious" buildings (Public Baths, Gambling House etc) though in hindsight I suspect the Stewards would have their fingers in quite a few more legal pies as well.

Dengrahl was to be the "religious hero", though his role was very much as a "city booster/exploiter" rather than a front line warrior. Tax-collector units also featured heavily and allowed a Stewards player to raise a lot of gold at the expense of city happiness (with a chance of temporary revolt if exploited too often).

The main reason I haven't gone back to working on them so far though is that I felt they still lacked some "key feature" that made them interesting and unique enough to deserve a place.

OK I must say... I LOVE THIS MOD :worship:

There is so much more flavour and so much more to do. Haven't tested the guilds yet but I know what they do... and they seem awesome! :)

OK gonna go attend to my Amurite tea plantations now :D

Al

Looks like a lot of cool stuff in there. Good show!

My friend and I have been playing a few MP games with no real technical issues. We always play with events off (even vanilla FFH as OOS are just too risky with them on) but other than that the rest of the mod seems to be working fine.

I'm not sure if I'm seeing a bug, but the sidar seem completely unable to adopt the AV. It has spread to all of their cities and they still haven't converted :s

Also, I assume that you've allowed all civs to build mines in forests?



Another issue is that I'm not seeing any kelp or swamp (or reagents for that matter). I'm using the PerfectWorld map script. Any advice on how I can get these features into my game?

Al

I have set Sandalphon to -99 weight for Ashen Veil. This way, while human can adopt it, Ai will never do. I just thought that if they want to extend their lives as much as they can, they would not want to bring hell to Erebus.
They are heavily weighted towards CoE and to lesser extent to RoK and FoL.
If you guys think it is excessive, I will lower his animosity towards AV in the next patch.

I changed the religion weigths for all the leaders. So, you should not see many of them converting from good to evil or vice versa. But there are variations between the leaders of the same civ, i.e. Falamar is for CoE and Hannah for OO, while Amelanchier is the only Ljosalfar leader that can adopt AV. As the AV goes, only Calabim, Sheaim and Balseraph really like it.
If you do not like this, it can easily be changed in CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.xml

As for the mines in forests, it never made much sense for me to remove forest to dig under it. Most mines I know (and I know a few ;) are under the ground... I also made them provide just one hammer, not two.
Also, this is part of making FoL usefull for non-elves, too. You can build mines on hills and foresters on flatlands (or if you need more food and do not want to go RoK or cut forests down).

Swamps and kelp do not appear on most of the custom map scrips :( They do on all the standard scripts I tested. I think I have read that reagents not appearing is a common PerfectWorld mapscript problem (Circle of transmuters was thought partially as a solution for this).
Unfortunatelly, I never really edited mapscripts, so I can't help you. If any of you know what have to be changed, I would gladly add edited mapscripts for Orbi mod.

Glad to hear MP is working good. It has been some time since I did it and I have added some stuff since then. Unfortunatelly, I think there will be the same amount of OOS as in the main mod. If only I could find a way do remove it...
There should not be more of them, though. I tried to make it as code light as possible (which is good judging on my code abilities ;) and also use the build-in BtS and Warlords features whenever possible.

I have set Sandalphon to -99 weight for Ashen Veil. This way, while human can adopt it, Ai will never do. I just thought that if they want to extend their lives as much as they can, they would not want to bring hell to Erebus.
They are heavily weighted towards CoE and to lesser extent to RoK and FoL.
If you guys think it is excessive, I will lower his animosity towards AV in the next patch.

I changed the religion weigths for all the leaders. So, you should not see many of them converting from good to evil or vice versa. But there are variations between the leaders of the same civ, i.e. Falamar is for CoE and Hannah for OO, while Amelanchier is the only Ljosalfar leader that can adopt AV. As the AV goes, only Calabim, Sheaim and Balseraph really like it.
If you do not like this, it can easily be changed in CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.xml

As for the mines in forests, it never made much sense for me to remove forest to dig under it. Most mines I know (and I know a few ;) are under the ground... I also made them provide just one hammer, not two.
Also, this is part of making FoL usefull for non-elves, too. You can build mines on hills and foresters on flatlands (or if you need more food and do not want to go RoK or cut forests down).

Swamps and kelp do not appear on most of the custom map scrips :( They do on all the standard scripts I tested. I think I have read that reagents not appearing is a common PerfectWorld mapscript problem (Circle of transmuters was thought partially as a solution for this).
Unfortunatelly, I never really edited mapscripts, so I can't help you. If any of you know what have to be changed, I would gladly add edited mapscripts for Orbi mod.

Glad to hear MP is working good. It has been some time since I did it and I have added some stuff since then. Unfortunatelly, I think there will be the same amount of OOS as in the main mod. If only I could find a way do remove it...
There should not be more of them, though. I tried to make it as code light as possible (which is good judging on my code abilities ;) and also use the build-in BtS and Warlords features whenever possible.

I like your reasoning about Sandalphon and the AV. It would make sense also that a lot of leaders would not adopt AV. Hmm... I'm CoE and a neighbour of Sandalphon... looks like I'll be sending a few Nightwatch over :D

Wish I had known about the mines earlier. I would have built all of mine (pun intended :p) IN the forest... rather than on open hills :blush:

I'll try and figure out what is stopping the kelp and swamp appearing in the game. I don't have much time atm (am moving house and jobs), but will get round to it as soon as I can :)

Keep up the good work! I love this mod. It's so much harder to wonder-rape also ;)

Just managed to get the arches guild... mmm I have so much copper and marble :D

Al

Hello, i have a bug to report even if it doesn't affect a lot of people. When i install your mod, i got no text at all on either the menus or in game screens. I'm playing with a local version of CIV4 (french one actually). The name of the file which is causing the issue is CIV4GameText_FForb as i can play after i delete it =)

I think all you have to do is to add French, German, Italian and Spanish sections in the latest parts of the file where only an English section appears.
At least i think it's the problem as every other text file which is working always has all these sections.

Thanks for reading me and keep the work going :)

Playing a Balseraph SP game on perfect world and I found a bug when I switched to Hyborem. I spawned near Amelanchier so I declared war and conquered a nearby city. However I have no city interface! http://screenshot.xfire.com/screenshot/natural/04624e54e792cd103f3b338aff815e20bd1e5417.png

I tried quitting and reloading and that just gave me this: http://screenshot.xfire.com/screenshot/natural/f17afd7c37b0f0798d648abc38b8fc7b8e4492ed.png Wierd... so I exit that screen but the city interface problem persists :(

The file CIV4GameText_FForb in text folder, as well as GameText_orbi.xml in the main xml folder (not the one in the Text folder) should not get in the zip file of the modmod at all. That are old, experimental ones. Please delete them, as I can't do it via patch.
I think I may release a new mod zip, i.e. with the next patch, to fix this. This mod is not so big after all, so I hope it will not be a major problem.

As for the missing city and tech screens, I found the problem. One s too many in the art define of infernal chariot... :(
Use the file in the attached zip and it should fix the problem. The file goes to Fall from Heaven 2 032\Assets\XML\Art. Let me know if it did not help.

Anyway, thanks for reporting both issues. And sorry for inconvinience :(

is it just me or does this mod mess up map generation? i have swamps all over the world including in tundra!? and im getting dyes and suger in snowy forests, and mushrooms in desert hills... seems all a bit too chaotic really...

other than that the changes made here are brilliant, i really like the tech and unit changes. i have yet to found a guild... but they look like fun :)

Been playing a few games SP and 1 game MP (haven't finished them yet) but one concern I have is with all the XP gaining buildings combined with settled great generals.

It is still relatively early in the game and I can build unis with 13xp out the door (2 great generals, training yard, apprenticeship, and a command post). As the Sidar that is already half-way to waning. I think these buildings should be more expensive and/or great generals should come at half or even a third frequency.

Psychic_Llamas, what map scrip do you use?
Wetlands are a common feature in tundra and mushrooms can grow under the ground (caves - that is why mushrooms are hills only bonus, they can also appear in hilly tundra & ice). Both changes are intended and working fine in my opinion. I just forgot to mention tundra swamps in the documentation.
I allowed sugar to appear on the featureless grasslands but not in forests. Probably the forest spread to the tile later. Snowy forest is wrong regardless, so I changed the maximum latitude for sugar to 50. 90 was just plain wrong and I forgot to change it.
Dyes have been changed to appear on swamps & drier forests, too (plains are ok terrain). Tundra is not allowed. So, there is a marginal possibility to get dyes in snowy forest but not on tundra. If you got it different, I do not know what is causing it.

@ MrPopov
The extra xp from buildings & such is meant to be able to slightly specialize units build in the late game, which are way behind in xp to the early ones. I do not want to lower xp or increase the building costs as the problem youn mentioned is influencing only Sidar. I will probably increase wane requirement to 7 level (50 xp).
The great general treshold increase is already 50% higher and base treshold is almost doubled from the default BtS values. I think generals are fun and not so powerful, so I do not want to decrease their appereance further, unless you people think there are too many of them now. I play mostly builder games so I am not sure how does it work for a warmonger.

Psychic_Llamas, what map scrip do you use?
Wetlands are a common feature in tundra and mushrooms can grow under the ground (caves - that is why mushrooms are hills only bonus, they can also appear in hilly tundra & ice). Both changes are intended and working fine in my opinion. I just forgot to mention tundra swamps in the documentation.
I allowed sugar to appear on the featureless grasslands but not in forests. Probably the forest spread to the tile later. Snowy forest is wrong regardless, so I changed the maximum latitude for sugar to 50. 90 was just plain wrong and I forgot to change it.
Dyes have been changed to appear on swamps & drier forests, too (plains are ok terrain). Tundra is not allowed. So, there is a marginal possibility to get dyes in snowy forest but not on tundra. If you got it different, I do not know what is causing it.

techtonic is my current map script of choice. and ok, that clears that up a fair bit :) thanks, thought the tundra swamps still bemuse me completely, wouldnt a swamp in tundra just be permafrost???? ice and dirty snow? id much prefer it id swamp latitudes were reduced to say 60 or 70

I can't seem to be able to build centaurs. I am Kuriotates (of course) and have researched the wheel but I can't build a centaur. Also in the pedia it shows a centaur as upgrading to a centaur.

Oh and I agree with changing wane to level 7.

techtonic is my current map script of choice. and ok, that clears that up a fair bit :) thanks, thought the tundra swamps still bemuse me completely, wouldnt a swamp in tundra just be permafrost???? ice and dirty snow? id much prefer it id swamp latitudes were reduced to say 60 or 70

I'd expect these tundra swamps to be Peat Bogs. Those usually occur in cold environments. I don't think they are usually frozen solid (although perhaps they are in the winter), but they are at temperatures low enough to prevent them from releasing too much methane. One of the major concerns of global warming is that if these warm up then they would serve as a excellent habitat for microbes that release large amounts of greenhouse gasses.

Wetlands are a common in all climates. In fact probably the largest one is part of the taiga in the West Siberian Plain in Russia.

Tundra in Civ is not an area of frozen ground - that is ice. Tundra terrain covers areas of severe winters and short vegatation period, but forest can appear on it, so I guess it represents both tundra (devoid of larger trees) and taiga (coniferous forests in cold regions) biomes.
Permafrost is quite common in such areas, but it is below the ground during summer or even the entire year. In fact it keeps the water just below ground as it can't go deeper (and even adds some from permafrost melting). Thus, it even helps wetlands forming.

Typically, swamps are considered different than peat bogs. But judging from my experience from northern Finland, peat bogs are still quite rich compared to the vegetation around. So, maybe the general term wetland suits the feature better, but the swamp sounds better and it works a bit alike.
As for the jungles, there are many different kinds of them and only a few are a really wet. Most are just very rainy.

Sorry for the long explanation. Such things are part of my real life occupation and I wanted to explain my reasoning clearly... :crazyeye:

There is no easy way to limit feature to certain latitudes. And 70 is on standard settings close to ice/tundra border I think.

As for the centaurs, I found the bug. It was in the CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml The right file is below, but I am not 100% if it will not break the save games.

I rearranged the religions from AV to Order and all is working fine. By the way I tracked the bug that made air mana display in three-field order civpedia. It was from unmodded FfH I think.
I added some new things too. I hope I will release next version tomorrow or on Sunday.

Wetlands are a common in all climates. In fact probably the largest one is part of the taiga in the West Siberian Plain in Russia.

Tundra in Civ is not an area of frozen ground - that is ice. Tundra terrain covers areas of severe winters and short vegatation period, but forest can appear on it, so I guess it represents both tundra (devoid of larger trees) and taiga (coniferous forests in cold regions) biomes.
Permafrost is quite common in such areas, but it is below the ground during summer or even the entire year. In fact it keeps the water just below ground as it can't go deeper (and even adds some from permafrost melting). Thus, it even helps wetlands forming.

Typically, swamps are considered different than peat bogs. But judging from my experience from northern Finland, they are still quite rich compared to the vegetation around. So, maybe the general term wetland suits the feature better, but the swamp sounds better and it works a bit alike.
As for the jungles, there are many different kinds of them and only a few are a really wet. Most are just very rainy.

Sorry for the long explanation. Such things are part of my real life occupation and I wanted to explain my reasoning clearly...

no worries, im studying biology at uni so i found it interesting, i never would have thought of swamps in the tundra :crazyeye:

Hi, this looks interesting, just downloaded for a look.

First thing - the function marnokSpawnMonster is missing. It's one of the supporting functions and means lairs can't spawn monsters properly!

Thanks for the info, I will fix it in the next version. And sorry for butchering your code like that... :mischief:

As you can easily learn from the above, I know next to nothing of the python coding. Unfortunatelly, I am too short of time now to learn it... :(
And I have a problem right now I can't seem to solve on my own.

I try to make Bazaar of mammon to incorporate stewards of inequity to the city it was build, but keep it as a national wonder. I think it is possible and I have already tried it using mage guild code for circle of gaelan in "def onBuildingBuilt" section of theCvEventManager.py
It works if I keep it dependant on the circle of gaelan headquaters (which I put in another city via worldbuilder):
if iBuildingType == gc.getInfoTypeForString('BUILDING_BAZAAR_OF_MAMMON '):
if CyGame().isCorporationFounded(gc.getInfoTypeForStr ing('CORPORATION_CIRCLE_OF_GAELAN')):
if CyGame().getHeadquarters(gc.getInfoTypeForString(' CORPORATION_CIRCLE_OF_GAELAN')).getOwner() == pCity.getOwner():
pCity.setHasCorporation(gc.getInfoTypeForString('C ORPORATION_STEWARDS_OF_INEQUITY'), True True, True)
but fails if I remove it:
if iBuildingType == gc.getInfoTypeForString('BUILDING_BAZAAR_OF_MAMMON '):
pCity.setHasCorporation(gc.getInfoTypeForString('C ORPORATION_STEWARDS_OF_INEQUITY'), True True, True)

So the question is, what am I doing wrong?

I also want expanding stewards guild to a city to grant a free building in this city, as I can't do the things I want with CIV4CorporationInfo.xml alone. Any ideas (or preferably a piece of code with instructions where to put it ;) )

And while we are at hat, any ideas what should be done in CvMainInterface.py to make guild icons in the city interface to appear in two rows instead of one. There are 16 guilds in this mod already and I think it need this fix badly...

Any piece of advice helps.I really need the above fixes or at least part of them for the next version...
Thanks!

Well, I would think you might need the corporation to be founded before it can be spread. So look at the code for the Guild of Hammers instead to found a guild when it is built.

I found it :)

All works as supposed. In fact guild of the nine is spread without founding headquaters, too. The above code is correct, just missing one comma at the last section ;)

pCity.setHasCorporation(gc.getInfoTypeForString('C ORPORATION_STEWARDS_OF_INEQUITY'), True, True, True)

But if soemone can help me with the free buildings on corporation spread, it would be appreciated

I found it :)

All works as supposed. In fact guild of the nine is spread without founding headquaters, too. The above code is correct, just missing one comma at the last section ;)

pCity.setHasCorporation(gc.getInfoTypeForString('C ORPORATION_STEWARDS_OF_INEQUITY'), True, True, True)

But if soemone can help me with the free buildings on corporation spread, it would be appreciated

There's onCorporationSpread in CVEventManager.py
pSpreadCity is taken in that function as the city spread to;
should be a doddle to pop a building up in that city.

If you want it to found the Headquarters the first time someone builds the Bazaar, you might want to borrow soem code from the Spread Aerons Bounty spell:def spellAeronsBounty(caster):
iAeronsBounty = gc.getInfoTypeForString('CORPORATION_AERONS_BOUNTY ')
pCity = caster.plot().getPlotCity()
if CyGame().isCorporationFounded(iAeronsBounty) == False:
pCity.setHeadquarters(iAeronsBounty)
pCity.setHasCorporation(iAeronsBounty, True, False, False)

I'm of the opinion that the Stewards really need a Headquarters, since think that is important in letting a guild's headquarters boost one city's economy at the expense of others.

Hi...
Can you make next patch more Linux-user-friendly?? (Meaning CaSeSeNsItIvE) - When I extract ORBI mod and then patch I've got two XML folders ("XML" and "Xml") and some other files has also two names with another case letters ... ):

Thanks for pointing to the right direction Marnok. I found it it made the following:

def onCorporationSpread(self, argsList):
'Corporation Has Spread to a City'
iCorporation, iOwner, pSpreadCity = argsList
player = PyPlayer(iOwner)
iSteward = gc.getInfoTypeForString('CORPORATION_STEWARDS_OF_I NEQUITY')
pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(iOwner)

if iCorporation == iSteward:
city.setNumRealBuilding(gc.getInfoTypeForString('B UILDING_STEWARDS'), 1)

if (not self.__LOG_RELIGIONSPREAD):
return
CvUtil.pyPrint('%s has spread to Player %d Civilization %s city of %s'
%(gc.getCorporationInfo(iCorporation).getDescripti on(), iOwner, player.getCivilizationName(), pSpreadCity.getName()))

Unfortunatelly, it does not work :( (the extra spaces in words INEQUITY & BUILDING are here only, in python file it is ok).
This is anything but easy for me... And I did not even added the condition that Bazaar can't be in the city..
Can someone check this short code and tell me what am I doing wrong?

@Magister
I do not need a code for establishing a headquaters when a building (in fact world wonder) is build as it is the default method of corporation founding, easy to use via Xml. The problem I had (and fortunatelly already solved) was to make a national wonder spread corporation to a city it is built.
Stewards in my mod do not have a real headquaters, but all bazaars benefit form all the cities that have this guild - so it is exactly what you wanted, but instead of one per world it is one per civ.
The problem I have now is to make other cities suffer or get mixed blessing from Stewards spreading to them. And for that I need the above code, as I need buildings spawned when the guild spreads...

Edit: added tags for the code above

Oh. Does that work? Is it ok to have multiple headquarters-founding buildings, and multiple headquarters? That wouldn't cause a problem like when you get a religion founding tech first after spreading the religion in worldbuilder?


you should probably start using tags, possible within . That way it is easier to read and we can tell how things are indented, which is important in finding python bugs. ( tags were used to make show up.)

It works, and this way Stewards can spread to every player that builds the Bazaar.
I checked it and seems to be fine, but you never can be too sure. As for the techs, corporations/guilds are not really tied to them, but to buildings founding them. My method does not allow to create a real headquaters as only unique world wonder can do that, but it is not really needed. Buildings do all the job in fact. Some of Keal's guilds do not have headquaters either, i.e. Guild of the nine I think.

As for the tags, I am not sure what do you mean.
My only experience ever with the python is this mod and I do not really understand it. It is all blind guesses.
So, can you help me with the above code? I can really use some help with making it work and adding a block for spawning BUILDING_STEWARDS in the cities with bazaar.

Edit: OK, I see now :) I tried to do it in the previous post... Hope that helps.

The tags I was reffing to aren't in python (xml uses tags, python does not), but in the manner in which you post things in this forum. When you use or [spoiler] tags around you code it messes up how you code is displayed, ignoring indentations. Using instead preserves the formatting of whatever you pasted there, which would help us help you.



Presumably, you would probably have to edit the onCorperationSpread and onCorperationRemove defines in CvEventManager.py


def onCorporationSpread(self, argsList):
'Corporation Has Spread to a City'
iCorporation, iOwner, pSpreadCity = argsList
player = PyPlayer(iOwner)
if (not self.__LOG_RELIGIONSPREAD):
return
CvUtil.pyPrint('%s has spread to Player %d Civilization %s city of %s'
%(gc.getCorporationInfo(iCorporation).getDescripti on(), iOwner, player.getCivilizationName(), pSpreadCity.getName()))

def onCorporationRemove(self, argsList):
'Corporation Has been removed from a City'
iCorporation, iOwner, pRemoveCity = argsList
player = PyPlayer(iOwner)
if (not self.__LOG_RELIGIONSPREAD):
return
CvUtil.pyPrint('%s has been removed from Player %d Civilization %s city of %s'
%(gc.getReligionInfo(iReligion).getDescription(), iOwner, player.getCivilizationName(), pRemoveCity.getName()))


to something like this
def onCorporationSpread(self, argsList):
'Corporation Has Spread to a City'
iCorporation, iOwner, pSpreadCity = argsList
player = PyPlayer(iOwner)

pSpreadCity.setNumRealBuilding(gc.getInfoTypeForSt ring('BUILDING_STEWARDS'), 1)

if (not self.__LOG_RELIGIONSPREAD):
return
CvUtil.pyPrint('%s has spread to Player %d Civilization %s city of %s'
%(gc.getCorporationInfo(iCorporation).getDescripti on(), iOwner, player.getCivilizationName(), pSpreadCity.getName()))

def onCorporationRemove(self, argsList):
'Corporation Has been removed from a City'
iCorporation, iOwner, pRemoveCity = argsList
player = PyPlayer(iOwner)


pSpreadCity.setNumRealBuilding(gc.getInfoTypeForSt ring('BUILDING_STEWARDS'), 0)

if (not self.__LOG_RELIGIONSPREAD):
return
CvUtil.pyPrint('%s has been removed from Player %d Civilization %s city of %s'
%(gc.getReligionInfo(iReligion).getDescription(), iOwner, player.getCivilizationName(), pRemoveCity.getName()))


That is assuming that this define is actually exposed to python. I believe I've run into situations before when what I wanted to do wouldn't work because somehting still found in this file was no longer checked in the SDK, because Kael thought it slowed things down too much and he didn't intend to use it himself.

200 turns into my first game and I'm having a great time. Many, many good new features. Love the new units, buildings, and resources.

I was lucky to pop a Great Engineer early on, and since then I've been spamming Prospectors. I have some ridiculously rich cities -- e.g. one has five gold mines and another has four iron mines and three copper mines. Most of the Prospectors eventually get trapped and killed, but they are easily replaced. I happen to be playing the Balseraphs and so I have a stack of Taskmasters who are able to enslave the Orcs, capture the Spiders, and kill everything else. After I lost a city to 7 Lizards, I learned to do my prospecting before founding the city. (I was a little concerned about building the Guild when it said it would 'consume' resources, but so far I don't seem to be running out. Another bit of miswording comes when you get Marble, which it says can be 'mined' instead of 'quarried'.)

There does seem to be a graphics glitch that makes some units have a red or black 'puddle' at their feet. I've also noted that after a successful dungeon exploration, the unit's turn does not end normally and you have to click on another one to move on.

I'm sad to say that I've encountered a fairly big bug. Late game (370-450 turns) I get a crash to desktop due to graphical error. First time I thought it was just a wierd fluke, since noone else had reported such a bug, but after three more games ended the same way I think it's safe to say that somethings up with OrbiMod. I assume there's something wonky about a lategame unit (since the crash comes so late and irregularly) but is there any way I could narrow it down? Sort of a crappy bug report as it is. :(

Looks Like I might need to lower the discover chance and increase monster spawn rate ;)

Do you remeber what exactly the Marbel text said? I do not recall adding "mining" information. And do you remeber what buildings and units have that glitch? I am going to release the next version tomorrow, but would like to check it before.

I have finally finished work on the first version of Stewards of Inequity.
More info is in the second post of this thread (0.11 changelog). Unfortunatelly I could not get it to influence or be influenced by other guilds.

@MagisterCultuum
Thanks for help, exactly what I needed. It works as it should :)
I changed pSpreadCity to pRemoveCity in the "def onCorporationRemove" part, but this part is not used yet anyway.

@Wauthan
Glad to get to know it before releasing next version. I will try to nail it down.
Can you post a save just before that happens?
If not, at least give me some info on the civs in the game (especially if mercurians & infernals are in and for how long), what guilds & religions are active and general tech level (how late is late... ;) )
It will help a lot in testing what is causing it.
I guess it is the unit or building art missing, but there are plenty to check.

Edit: Did you apply the infernal chariot fix I posted a few days ago?

Good news. It was indeed the Infernal Chariot that caused the problem. I only looked for updates in your first post. :hammer2:

Damn good thing you had a fix already in place. Kickass game in progress and I'm not sure I want to go back to "vanilla" FFH now that your mod is out. :thumbsup:

Looks Like I might need to lower the discover chance and increase monster spawn rate ;)

Do you remeber what exactly the Marbel text said? I do not recall adding "mining" information. And do you remeber what buildings and units have that glitch? I am going to release the next version tomorrow, but would like to check it before.

I have finally finished work on the first version of Stewards of Inequity.
More info is in the second post of this thread (0.11 changelog). Unfortunatelly I could not get it to influence or be influenced by other guilds.



The 'mining' text is the one that comes when you discover Marble. It says something about all the fine stuff you can carve. One other thing, after prospecting and coming up empty, you get a message at the top saying that the game was saved, but there's no entry in the autosave to indicate that this happened.

The Acrobat has a red puddle. The black one may have been the Adept and/or Puppeteer, but I'm not sure about that. Buildings are OK as far as I can tell. I'll make notes next time I play.

Changing the discovery chance or monster spawn may only slow down the exploit. With my Taskmaster escort, the more monsters the better -- more slaves, more Spiders, and more EPs. Other civs might not find it so appealing. You might look at increasing the cost of the Prospector to make replacing losses more painful. Or possibly limit the player to one unit at a time instead of four. While you're at it, maybe allow the Prospector to get a few simple promotions. I have one Prospector/Adventurer with 15 EPs and nothing to use them on.

Cheers!

I've seen workers with the red/black puddle (I call it a dress :P)

^me to. I've also seen mushrooms on mountains thanks to an event, Besides that lovin' the mod!

I have uploaded new version of the mod. Unfortunatelly, it is new base version as it contains some fixes that can't be delivered via patch.
More info in the first two posts.

The mushrooms on peaks are unmodded FfH2 issue. Some people like it and I have not yet decided if I want to fix it.
I think I will just accept whatever Kael will do with it.

As for the graphics problem, I can't reproduce it. Can someone post a sreenshot showing it? And while we are at it, savegame wouldn't hurt, too ;)

I hope you like changes in the update :)

i've tried to test your mod-mod but when i launch it, no word appear in the main interface, in units and in civ-pedia also.

it' s a truoble that same mods have with italian version of civ, but FFH2 and same other mod-mod work fine. not yours

Get the new version (0.11) linked in the first post. It should work for non-english versions too.
You need to do a clean install on FfH.

I cheated in one game and looked in the world builder and observed a copper resource near my city :mischief: I resumed playing as normal and had the mushroom event on that tile thereby replacing the copper resource with mushrooms. Just wondering if that is intentional cuz from now on I am going to wonder what resources I am losing to mushrooms :crazyeye:

Playing the latest .11 release (thanks for the quick updates btw, I have almost completely replaced my normal FFH playing with this version :D )

in this same game I have experienced a bug where I can't convert to Empyrean which I just founded. I am playing as Kuriotates and am not agnostic or anything. The religion is in both of my cities (I don't have any settlements yet either). I have tried saving and reloading and quiting CIV and reloading but the problem persists.

Screenshot (http://screenshot.xfire.com/screenshot/natural/6ca5ff8ae5644a13f4f18a7559d76bbb8d3191d5.png)

here's the save if anyone is interested

I checked your save, but unfortunatelly I have no idea what is the cause of the problem... If anyone have any clues or experienced simillar problem, please let me know. I can't think of anything I changed that could cause such problems. The religions were just put in the new order, nothing else was changed. Cardith has even some positive affinity for Empyrean...

As for the mushrooms, I think I had fixed the event so that it should not spawn mushrooms on top of other resources. I fixed some problems with elephants & prospecting while at that.
As I have not immediate plans to add anything to the changelog, I decided to release it at last. It is linked in the second post.

Thanks for the support :) I tried not to remove anything from the base FfH, just add some stuff and fix things that I do not think work right, so I hope you do not miss anything...
If anyone have any ideas for this mod, i.e. have any ideas for the weaver & banker, or just anything not related, please let me know.
I still seek new things to include here. And it is quite quiet recently...

I have quite important question. Are there people that would be interested in Fall Further version of Orbi? I can't promise anything, but Xienwolf's dll is tempting (I like some options, like broader alignments), so I will probably use FF sdk anyway.
Even if I will make the conversion, do not expect it in the close future. I have a lot of real life work, unfortunatelly... :(

More on the graphics glitches. Balseraph Scout had a red puddle, but not until returning from a reload. The Scorched Staff from the event was just a large red puddle, totally obscuring the city.

While I've got you here, my top wish for new feature would be assimilation (as described in Kael's thread).

ideas for the Banker unit:
-a inspiration like ability which adds +x commerce and +x great merchant points
-make it able to remove foreign guilds from your citys
-a bribe skill which works like charm(cheap) or domination(expensive)
which costs xxx money
-use it like a balseraph gypsy maybe with a bit higher value

Weaver:
-quality sails: could add a promotion to ships( +mov, and/or withdraw chance)
-exquisite clothing: could add command to disciple units
-maybe you´ll say the weavers are blabbers so you could add a skill which adds unhappiness to a foreign city due to bad rumors

edit: about the graphics glitches: the Amurite Archmage (always) has no graphic neither in game nor in the civpedia (missing graphic?)

scouts (sometimes) so far i noticed it only after any events or after exploring lairs
that they miss their feets but only this unit, not all scouts
but after reloading all seems normal (restart civ, not only load the save)

I was just thinking that it would be really cool if normal inflation were eliminated, and inflation was tied entirely to the Stewards of Inequity. I'm not quite sure how to do this, but since there are events that effect inflation I guess this could work mostly though Stewards-related events.

A typical event could allow you to "borrow" a large amount of money, but cause inflation for everyone at the same time. I'm not sure if borrowed money should have to be payed back or not. If so, this would probably be done though another event, which could require paying back more money, "selling off" some of your units/cities/buildings/resources/techs (perhaps going to the barbs or to other civs), or take out another loan requiring you pay back more money in a future event.

Perhaps it could also be tied to the Undercouncil, perhaps even to a new resolution.

I am still seeking the source of the graphics bug. I suspect that there is a broken art file somewhere, but so far I could not locate it. It is hard, as it works fine for me. Sometimes I have problems with city art after reload, but nothing that restarting civ do not cure.

I found the amurite archmage bug. I will fix it in the next patch, ut if you want it now, just apply the file below. It brings amurite mages and govannon in line with basic FfH (fortunatelly Kale at last decided to use the nice units seZereth made a long time ago).

@ Rawn
Thanks for the ideas. I currently think of the inspiration thing, also a way to remove stewards from a city for banker. I do not think if removing other guilds from a city is really usefull. But if you think different, let me know.

As for the waevers, I am still looking. Currently I think of letting them to build a permanent building - weaver workshop adding commerce to a city.

Any thoughts on letting Three-field order guildsmen (millers at the moment ;) ) to discover food and plantation resources, just as prospectors discover mine & quarry ones.

Any ideas and opinions welcome. No one has any thoughts?

@ MC
Interesting idea, but there are some problems. First, I do not know how to do it. Second, inflation for everyone is a bit too much for my taste.
I think I prefer what Vehem told of his attempt to get Stewards into the game. Tax-like ability (extract money ;) ) that causes unhappiness.

Have you tried any of the changes I recently implemented? Any thoughts on the fireship? I will probably get rid of it next time I will release save-breaking patch. And what do you think of the current implementation of the Stewards?

@ charleswatkins
I will probably not include assimilation. Unfortunatelly it requires SDK and as I can't edit it right now, it would block me from using Xienwolf's one, which I prefer. I am also not so sure if it is a good thing for balance and flavour for FfH. There are rumours that it can be added by Kael in the 0.33 as an option, but even if not, I do not think that I will get it here.

I am always around - even if I do not post, I check this thread from time to time :crazyeye:

thx for the quick fix

i agree with you about the inflation, the impact would be really hard
i prefer to play on huge terra maps and usuallly finish the whole techtree
on marathon speed, before i take aggression by myself
so i usually have 40-60 citys by this time and such an event will surely ruin the empire

about the weavers: i don´t think they shall add a permanent building
they already have the clothhall
i would prefer if they add something if they stay in the city (manage the clothhall for example) which could give a much higher bonus than a everywhere building (i like specializing citys)
but thats my opinion

i didn´t use the Fireship so far (still thinking it should be a abbility not a class by itself) and didn´t see a use for it either, in my last games the Ai didn´t build a significant Navy (and again the only one who had a reasonable seaforce was the Ljolsafar)
for any reason the Lanun Ai can´t manage it to build a Fleet even if they are mainly settling the coast or Islands so far i observed mainly reconline units
mainly rangers and some assassins

about the stewards: i did build the Bazaar but i spread it very late in game
and if you got about 4000gold each turn (50/50 science/tax)
you don´t care about 50 more or less per city
i miss some more uniqueness (events/skills/spells etc.) i´ll think about it

edit:
the millers: surely it´s a good use to make them prospectors for agricultural resources
but also in this case i tend to wish they could have a "inspiration"-like thing which adds some food
to the city (if possible keyed to different techs to make it more usefull on higher tech levels
or keyed to levels like the magic line, Adept=Farmhand,Mage=Miller, Archmage=Agriculturalengineer....maybe a idea for all guildspeople, and some more use for it if you´re not the founder of the guild)
downside: i think this could be go much too complex and i don´t know if there is any chance that the Ai can handle this, not mentioned if it´s evenpossible to create it and if it´s worth the work

I just noticed that my Evil leader was not allowed to adopt RoK. In the past, that would have been allowed and would have shifted alignment to Neutral.

Yes to your proposal. I would be interested in having FF for Orbi.

I just wanted to say thanks for making this modmod. It does like half the things I ever wanted in FFH, and that's a lot XD

Keep up the good work!

edit: Espcially love what you did with priests. Always wanted to do something similar myself but I lack skills for it :(

Just stopping back by to show my appreciation once again and give a small update on a few things I've noticed.

I'm not sure if this has the desired effect (my mod skills are non-existent), but I edited the gamespeedinfo.xml barb percent. What I hoped to achieve was to give the AI a little break from the powerful and persistent barbarians (which I really like by the way). I play on epic speed and the AI seemed to have a little trouble expanding early on and a civilization would sometimes get wiped out early from barbarians. After raising the barb percent to 250 for epic, things seem to be going good so far (noble difficulty).

I've also encountered a merchant's war event. It seems to be a chained event. Some of the listings for choices have [happy_icon] or [unhappy_icon]. Honestly not a problem, just thought I'd post it for the sake of thoroughness. The followup event, says "Conflicts between the merchants in %s2_city and your capitol have escalated...". Again, not a real problem at all.

Thanks again, I really appreciate your modmod.

I decided to take a short break from RL work and did some updates to the mod. The patch 0.11 b is linked in the first post, for changelog check the second post.

Sorry for the long silence. I did read all the posts, just did not have time to post something longer.

@ Rawn
Thanks for the feedback! I really like some of the ideas, but I currently do not know how to add food to a city short of event. I will need more time than I have now to try to figure it out.
As for the Stewards, I really want to have some events etc., just wanted to have other guilds more or less complete first.
If anyone has any ideas for the events or other ways to spice stewards (or any other guild), post it here :)

@ charleswatkins
I still try to find what is the cause of your religion problems. So far, without succes. If anyone has simillar problem let me know.
RoK should work exactly as you described and there are no evil leaders short of Hyborem that can't adopt RoK.

@ Quetz
Half the things? So what the other half is ;) ?
In fact, this mod started as my personal fix for the things I do not liked/missed first in Vanilla civ, then I moved it to FfH. I only decided to release it after I added guilds and pagan temples, as someone might find a use for this part. I am glad some people really like it.
It is great that you like priest changes. It is probably not the most elegant solution, but I still think it is better than psuedo-mage priests we currently have in unmodded FfH. And sanctify is a must for a good/neutral priests :)

@ Dzhel
I will look into the barbarian thing.
Both this one and the other two are straight from base FfH.
The [happy icon] happened to me too and I think it was posted in the bug thread, but currently I do not know how to fix it.
Flying unit fix is already in the patch (I guess you have seen it as it is gone from your post)

I have added missing abilities for the guildsmen so I hope it is better balanced now.
I also tried to add some more unique art or match it better with the civ lore or existing art. That is the reason for Grigori change.
If you think that some of the art do not really fit, please do not be shy and post it here.

I hope to post some more than just bugfixes, but unfortunatelly summer is a busy season for me. So we will see...

something different:
since you brought back the polearm line,shouldn´t be the Phalanx the high end unit of it? (+x against mounted instead of city attack)

balance:
maybe increasing city defenses against archery bombardment?
if you have stirrups and can build horsearchers it´s nearly not necessary
to have any other unit
especially these slow siege weapons are totally useless in comparrisson to them
at least other civs than the hippus should be weakend to keep their uniqueness

i think palisades or walls should give an impressive cover against it
until they´re reduced with siege engines (does the +% city def count against Archery bombardment? lessen or even negate the ranged damage?)

Phalax, or spartatoi as it was called before, never had any bonus against mounted units, even when polearm line was still in. They are supposed to be good all-around, especially at city storming.
They also defeat easily everything mounted that is not a knight. And knight is supposed to be hard to kill - it is the most expensive non-hero unit in the game. Ranged attack and then pikeman or phalanx should work though.

Defence from ranged attacks when in walled city is a good idea. Unfortunatelly it requires SDK changes I think and I am not sure if I will be able to convince xienwolf to include it as it is not used in Fall Further.

As for the horse archers, you are right that they are too usefull. I will lower their ranged attack to 2 (from 4) and limit it to 20% or even 15% from the current 40%. Hope that helps. I will probably lower war chariots ranged attack a bit, too. This way archers will be a lot more useful.
As for the siege engines, I think they are still much better than both archery units and mounted archers in ranged attack, especially regarding collateral damage (mounted archers do not do it at all). Remeber that they can use enemy roads, so can be quite fast.

ok with the Phalanx was just a thought (if i hear Phalanx i always have the picture of an ancient Greek Pikewall in mind, and a Pikewall is the Bane of any mounted unit)

about the city def, i can only make suggestions, i don´t know what is possible
or nessessary to implement it (i´m happy if i can manage to correctly installing mods)

did you ever take a look at Tarquelne´s Holy Warriors or his Techunit Replacements for the Amurite?

edit: btw Magister have made some interesting suggestions in the FF thread (page90, three links)

Just wanted to drop by and let you know that know that 0.11 seems to be stable and very enjoyable. A few questions though.

1. Resources seem to be abundant regardless of mapscript. Have you tinkered with the propabilities or is it just caused by the new resources being added in addition to the old?

2. Castles seem to be crazy good improvements. I find myself castle farming instead of town farming. Good resources, can be built in any tile and gives a solid defence bonus against raiders. I think they could use a bit of restriction. Either castles can't be built on every kind of tile or there should be a minimum amount of tiles between each castle (2 tiles?).

3. Swamps are currently a bit too good in my opinion, and swamp castles are a suprisingly nice combination. Considering just how unpopular swamps are in RL, with huge areas being turned into farmland, perhaps they should simply be "wet tundra" instead? 1 food plus disease, but can have fur, iron, ivory, deer, fish, clams and pearls resources.

4. Where do you get the graphics for the units? I recognise a few from other mods, like Varietas Delectat, but some I haven't seen before. Do you create them yourself?

5. What are your future plans? I know that naming mods is no exact science but since you are currently at 0.11 it makes me wonder what your vision is for version 1.00?

Many thanks for sharing your hard work and I look forward to following OrbiMod on it's journey to the awesomefest. :goodjob:

Just want to say how much I've been enjoying the modmod. The new units, buildings, resources, etc have put new life into the game for me. With ORBI, MARNOK, and FALL FURTHER to choose from (and MAGISTER one of these days), these are truly great times for FFH addicts.

@ Rawn
I think exactly the same while hearing "phalanx", with one difference - phalanxes were very slow and thus vulnerable to flank or rear attacks, especially from mounted units. That is why roman legion tactics was better ;) . Anyway, I think that phalanx is a poor choice of words, I think even spartatoi was better. I will probably change it, exactly the same as champion is now heavy infantry. This name did not fit at all in my opinion.

Do not get me wrong, I am happy with all your suggestions and I really would like to include this one. I just tried to explain why I will not include it right now, which I would like to do. Dll is beyond my skill/time for now, but I hope to change it in the feature. I am learning python right now ;)

As for Tarqueline's mods, I really like siege mages and plan to include them for some time now. On the other hand, Holy warriors seem a bit too complicated. I prefer to have paladins/eidolons of different backgrounds (melee or different faiths) than special units. That unfortunatelly requires upgrading to get the most from them. I even consider making them not buildable and require at least 2 level to upgrade to enforce the extra abilities. Druids are already semi-religious units, as they require FoL or RoK in the city to be build. I have kept dwarven druids as dwarf unique though.
As for MC's suggestions, I will check them out.

Edit: I checked and quite like them (most of them anyway). The problem is they require SDK so I will not be able to include them in the immediate future. But I will keep them in mind.

@ Wauthan
Are you sure you do not have Blessing of Amauthaon checked in? I usually play with it, but I keep my playing files separate to the ones I release. I did not really changed appereance chances (at least I do not recall anything like that). I just changed the valid terrains/features (basicly added some according to my knowledge) and added new resources, so that is possible reason. But everyone gets that so it is more or less balanced so I quite like it... Unfortunatelly with prospectors and millers you can add even more on top of that. I will have to think if need and can be toned down. What do you think?

Castles are strong, I agree. I kept the original defence rates, but added some yelds and they act as cities again. On top of that building forts do not remove feature, resulting in even better defence.
I will probably lower the base defence and think about cutting base yeld and/or feudal contract bonus. I would like to prevent them from being build on adjacent tiles, but it would require changing creation from build order to spell and that I do not want to do. Also, restricting them to a specific terrains will result in areas that can't get castle and some that can get them everyehere. Basically, I think that there are a few terrains that really were commonly used as place for castles: hills, river sides and swampy areas (like teutonic knights or the one from The Holy Grail ;) - including the burned and then sunken one...)

As for the swamps, I think they are quite popular settlement areas, but mostly after draining i.e. the Netherlands. These areas are really productive. I can make a python function that turns every swamp tile terrain to a wettland terrain (like the one from FF). This way after draining swamp you will be able to farm a really good area - a bit like flood plains but weaker (+1 food) and no unhealth. Unfortunatelly it has some drwabacks. It would require additional type of tundra too, to accomodate the swamps on tundra. Also, currently you have to decide whether you want to keep the swamp (+1 food, some defensive bonuses and unhealthiness) or just build a farm there (+2 food with sanitation, civics bonuses, healthy). So, I can go with the wetland area or just lower defensive bonus and increase unhealthiness from swamp. What do you guys think?
As for the sea resources in swamps, it fits them, but after draining it would produce fish jumping from grassland tile and I think and it is not something I want.

The unit graphics come from varied sources. Some ar from firaxis (both expansions and scenarios) and are not used by basic mod. Some are taken form other mods, especially Warhammer. Other are just downloaded from this site, some people have a lot of units posted. I use a lot of danrell's for example - most of elohim and some other are from him.
Some units are from earlier versions of FfH and vere dropped because of gameplay changes, i.e. Bannor spearman was probably made by seZereth (please correct me if I am wrong) and was dropped because of the removal of the pike line. I got it from the vanilla version of FfH (0.23).
I only do simple recolouring (i.e. elohim phalanx is a recoloured holy empire landskneht). Sometimes I also do some removing form the current unit in nifviewer, i.e. infernal archmage and fire elemental both come from the same unit that Kael added in one of the recent patches as a fire elemental. I removed the club for the archmage and get rid of everything except the fire for the fire elemental.
I plan to learn how to add something, but I should work on finishing my thesis so I decided to do it after I finish.

As for the naming, I think that FfH should be now version 2.32 judging from the polish and playability it has. But as it is still 0.32 I do not want to have version 4.0 of Orbi in a half a year or so. ;)
I plan to update to major versions at least with every major version of FfH.
As for my plans, I will keep working on this mod as it is the one I play. So I will probably add the things I like from other mods if the author agree. I also plan to add broader alignements and some civ-specific bonuses for specific terrains (i.e. better tundra yeld for Doviello and desert for Malakim), but for that I will wait for 0.33 compatibile version of Xienwolf's modcomp. I also think of adding unit statistics.
I want to continue balancing & flavoring the guilds, fix bugs and add more flavor to civs - both with unit looks and special abilities.
I do not plan to release many new civs though. I will not survive a competition with all the FF goodness anyway I think :) I will add one civ from FF with a next patch - a slightly modified version of Mazatl. Ever since the vanilla civ4 I wanted to fill the jungle ecological niche - and Lizards are a perfect civ for that. Vehem was kind enough to allow me to use them here (thanks again :) ).
One other civ I think of is agnostic and avoiding magic one - a renaissance one using tech, machines and gunpowder, a bit steam-punkish, something simillar to Vinci in the Age of Legends or some aspects of The Empire in Warhammer. But I have to think about it, both in therms of balance and to fit with FfH setting. The other one would be more feudal one, high middle-ages themed, a bit like brettonia in Warhammer. But it is just creazy thinking for now.
I also need to work on Stewards of Inequity. They are quite dull now and need to given some nice abilities and events.
I do not have set in stone vision of version 1.0 and do not promise all of the above - but that are the things I think about. I hope you like it. Of course, I am open to any suggestions, that is one of the reasons I released this mod.

I am glad you people like it in it's current state. Even too glad as I prefer to work on this mod than on my thesis and it suffers a lot... ;) Damned RL work, who needs it...

Hey guys

Been away for a while. Lots of updates seem to have appeared here. I'll check them out when I'm not working and let you know what I think :)

Al

Also, does anybody know which map script works best with this mod to take advantage of all the cool and crazy terrain features (swamp, kelp, etc). I normally use perfect world, but this won't allow me to take advantage of these features (and also seems to exclude reagents :s).


Also, are there any improved versions map scripts like hub? These cannot be played with large numbers of players without filling the map with terrain :s

Thanks guys :)

Al

Also (sorry for the third post :p), when is patch c expected to be released?

Thanks

Al

Give me an hour...

Edit: ok, here it is: 0.11 c (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=10211)

I did not have much time to test it, but it should work fine. If it does not, let me know.

Also, does anybody know which map script works best with this mod to take advantage of all the cool and crazy terrain features (swamp, kelp, etc). I normally use perfect world, but this won't allow me to take advantage of these features (and also seems to exclude reagents :s).


Also, are there any improved versions map scripts like hub? These cannot be played with large numbers of players without filling the map with terrain :s

Thanks guys :)

Al

I like Sto's 'Full of Resources' series, which despite the name has many more options than resources. With it, you get plenty of swamps, kelp, etc. but no Hell terrain to start with.

Give me an hour...

Edit: ok, here it is: 0.11 c (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=10211)

I did not have much time to test it, but it should work fine. If it does not, let me know.

Woot! This should be fun! :D

I like Sto's 'Full of Resources' series, which despite the name has many more options than resources. With it, you get plenty of swamps, kelp, etc. but no Hell terrain to start with.

Thanks... I'll check it out and see what it is like :)

Will post in the future when I have the internet back in my new location :)

Al

I decided to wrap some bugfixes & changes to deep jungle that I done after 0.11 c and post it as a quickfix.
The next patch will most probably break saves and can take some time to get ready, so I decided to release non breaking fixes separately.
Patch 0.11 c is also quite big due to lizard art, so I will probably just realease a new version with lizards already in, instead of posting the same files over and over.
The fix (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=10225) is very small, but requires 0.11c to work.

I also did some tests on ranged attacks and noticed that actually ranged damage is lowered by defensive structures or even features. The effect is not that great, but it is in.
It is better to be hit while in the castle on the forested hill than in the featureless plain. Same applies to cities - better if they have walls and citadels (not to mention other bonuses you get from this buildings - i.e. it is better to use ranged attack from the city than the other way around due to increased collateral damage city wall defenders inflict).
Note that siege engines ignore building defences, so only culture or terrain/fort bonuses work.
That is not a change I added, it was in all the time. I just decided to inform you how it works as I did a few tests recently and Rawn suggested such mechanics. On the other hand, I hope to increase that effect (basicly to make it double that it currently is).

I just downloaded and played this modmod and found it excellent.:goodjob:

The only thing that bugs me is Standing Stones giving nature mana. it doesn't make sense. Could you remove the mana bonus and give it a large production bonus? Or you could remove the mana from the Gate and boost it's yields a little bit.

Otherwise, great mod, and I'm enjoying using corporations.

Any plans on adding any more civs besides the Mazatl?

i think standing stones are assossiated to druids so nature mana sounds like a logical choice

didn´t ahwaric already give all the unique features some prod and /or food/commerce boni?

i think standing stones are assossiated to druids so nature mana sounds like a logical choice

didn´t ahwaric already give all the unique features some prod and /or food/commerce boni?

There's a good case either way. Druids practiced Geomancy, which drew power from the Earth. The standing stones were situated on 'ley' lines where the earth currents flowed. They utilized the earth magic to make the lands fertile.

There's a good case either way. Druids practiced Geomancy, which drew power from the Earth. The standing stones were situated on 'ley' lines where the earth currents flowed. They utilized the earth magic to make the lands fertile.


sure i agree with you, but since we have here Earth AND Nature mana
and earth will fit a more pure elemental role i think Nature is better suited for the druidic circle

sure i agree with you, but since we have here Earth AND Nature mana
and earth will fit a more pure elemental role i think Nature is better suited for the druidic circle

My reasoning exactly . Note that normal druids have nature mana affinity. In FfH earth mana is a dwarven druid domain and it is all about rocks and inanimate earth. I suppose that dwarven druids gather in underground caverns (in the underdark/underhome...) rather than at circles of stones.
I also like the green glow nature mana gives to the circle ;)

Anyway, if you really do not like it, it is a simple xml change. I think I will keep it as it is.

As for the new civs, I do not plan to add more of the FF ones. I will focus on flavouring the already existing ones and possibly add the two I mentioned in the loooong post a few days ago...

By the way, have you read the 0.33 changelog? Some great changes in there. :)
Too bad I will be out for a week since 18 to 25 august... :(
But as always, some changes I do not like. I already know that serfdom and mechanists shops will be in, as they are quite diffeent in Orbi than in basic FfH. I will probably move crossbowman building requirement to bowyers though, so machinery do not require the bowyers tech any more (and thus allow earlier weavers).

Note: almost 3 years to get my 100th post... quite a long time... :crazyeye:

Just an irrelevant post, nevertheless Ahwaric I have started to play your mod (v0.11b) this Saturday. And it gives lot more flavour and in-depth to the already excellent FFH. Keep up the good work, and I am glad that you do not race down the path of simplification :goodjob:

Thanks for sharing your vision of FFH2 - thus I guess it's time to share some playtesting observations:

- Ljosalfar can't build a Ljosalfar Archery range (but a normal one)

- City states gives +20% culture in all cities - is this intended (instead of -20% culture) ?

- you can also build Hunters and Archers w/o the appropriate building: is this intended, too ? Feels kinda strange for FFH even though you "lose" 2 free exp when building a Lodge or Range

- Ljosalfar can't build a Ljosalfar Archery range (but a normal one)

Yup. My mistake. It was replacing training yard :blush: It will be fixed in the next patch.

- City states gives +20% culture in all cities - is this intended (instead of -20% culture) ?

Yes. It gives -10% to gold and +20% culture. Think of ancient greece. Athens, Corinth, Ephesus... All were city states.
On the other hand, city states may need weakening a bit. What do you think? I almost never use it, just go for god king and then republic. But I do not say it is optimal strategy...

- you can also build Hunters and Archers w/o the appropriate building: is this intended, too ? Feels kinda strange for FFH even though you "lose" 2 free exp when building a Lodge or Range

Also axeman/swordsman, horseman and almost all other units. In fact you only need buildings for some tier 4 units, not all though (if there are any units not following this rule, let me know as this is a bug)
Building requirements are pain for the AI unless you check the AI-no building requirement option. That is why this option is there.
Well, I do not like the prerequisites so I changed it. And also the buildings to make them really worth building. Even for AI. Also, some free xp is supposed to give you a few promos on the start in the late game. First, to specialize your units, second, to give them slight chance to fight this battle hardened 101+ xp units (by the way, that is the xp limit form barbarians here)
I try to keep true to FfH lore, not some decisions that the team makes. I know that they made the lore, too, but actual implementation can differ. And the pre-req buildings are just decision that some people like, but some do not. Not part of the lore.

@Swodhawk
You post is relevant. It feels good if you like the mod and let me know it. :)

Thanks alot for the clarification. I kinda missed the changelog, but found it myself in the editor-file now :)
A huuuge "thankyou" for marking all the changes in there :goodjob:

After playing a few more turns with the Ljosalfar (and researching FoL now) it seems that the "new" Ancient Forest graphics kinda looks like there are more isolated spots of forests instead of a huge carpet covering all.
Any chance to change that back to the old way where all your empire was forested (and looked that way) instead of having lots of A.F.tiles which all look isolated from each other ?
It's just a grafical issue, but it feels strange that even though Ancient forest is thicker and the trees are bigger there, normal forests just look "more forested"

Did you implement the Forrester improvement to encourage other civs to run FoL, too ?
Right now, it feels quite strong playing elves, especially as the food bonus on top of Ancient forests allows for an even easier SE-economy than running farms. (4/2/1 on normal plains , 3/3/1 on hills means food en masse for specialists and on top of that a great production to build SE-allowing buildings)
This is not meant to be some sort of critcism - I didn't play that much yet and perhaps the extrabonus form corporations will make farms (and mines) alot stronger than I can think of right now (due to being able to discover resources). I'm just wondering ... :)

(On a sidenote: Is this also the reason why you removed 1 prod from mines and also changed Arete's bonus from hammers to commerce ? Did you raise the chance to find extra-resources or just wanted to prevent too much production ? Thanks for your insight)


@City states:
I was kinda curious because alot of people think of City states already being very strong in vanilla FFH due to the quite high maintenance costs and you made it even stronger with that culture boost. For my part, I prefer god king with a builder style Civ, too. Gotta have to try City states with a warmongering Civ that conquers alot of cities.
Right now the highened chance to keep obelisks added with City states +20% culture seems to make warmongering alot easier than it already is - but I couldn't test yet and it's just one oponion anyways ;)

about the city states:
mabe not weaken these but tie the minister koun event to it
maybe 2-3 additional minister xys (if that´s possible) depending on map and civ size, to reflect the often changing alliances and agreements between the
citys
maybe they can reintegrate in your civ later (either by diplomacy or by an event)

i personallly nearly never use it prefering godking
and later aristocracy (bannor) and magocratie(amurite) (there must be some roleplaying flavor)

Hi!

Sry for asking, but i tortured my mind to get behind the meaning of the abbreviation of "SE"... "Sonic Election"? "Sinister Erection"? "Slow Extraction"?
...no, no, no!:mad:

thx Tenophis

In Civ IV, SE is usually "Specialist Economy"

Thanks alot for the clarification. I kinda missed the changelog, but found it myself in the editor-file now :)
A huuuge "thankyou" for marking all the changes in there :goodjob:

The changes are in documentation file - the pdf in the first post. I try to update it to every version. There is even detailed info of every improvement, including possible bonuses from techs and civs. Changelog here is in the second post just to inform what was changed with every patch.
And not every change was marked, of that I am sure. I try to, but it is impossible to not miss a one or two. Sometimes I forget to mark it, so be carefull... :blush:

After playing a few more turns with the Ljosalfar (and researching FoL now) it seems that the "new" Ancient Forest graphics kinda looks like there are more isolated spots of forests instead of a huge carpet covering all.
Well, I like the new graphics. It was made by seZereth and I think that it fits quite well. I did resized it down, though, to make things better visible. But I did some tests and if you set it to 0.95 it is quite alright - looks like continous cover while not obscuring view much more than now. I will do it in the next patch
I am aware this graphics not perfect, but the old one was worse. I even tried to just make a golden recoulour of the normal broadleaf forest, but decided that I like the atmosphere of seZereth's one too much.
If you want the old graphics, it just need to be changed in CIV4ArtDefines_Feature.xml to the old one. I may even release it as a separate file if you are interested.

Did you implement the Forrester improvement to encourage other civs to run FoL, too ?
Right now, it feels quite strong playing elves, especially as the food bonus on top of Ancient forests allows for an even easier SE-economy than running farms.
Foresters are meant as something that everyone can build in the ancient forest. In unmodded FfH you can build nothing unless you are playing elven civ. Now you can build foresters everywhere and mines on hills.
For elves it does not change that much, as forester is 1 food 2 commerce at best and farm is 2 food 1 commerce. There are civics bonuses, so you get +1 prod with GoN, but I think of it as a quite weak civic anyway.
Do you think it all would be better balanced if I remove one commerce from forester. Still, for SE farms are better IMHO. Aad you an build farms on hills here.
The arete change is meant to make followers of RoK less dependant on the surface world. Grassland hills mine now can support itself.
Mine production was lowered to compensate for allowing it to be build in forests. I also not like that you basicly use only mines+farms+town+ anything is needed to get that resource. I want some more diversity.
If you do not agree with my decisions, feel free to criticize them. I really want to balance it :)

@City states:
I was kinda curious because alot of people think of City states already being very strong in vanilla FFH due to the quite high maintenance costs and you made it even stronger with that culture boost. [...]
Right now the highened chance to keep obelisks...

The chance to keep obelisks is just the same as in basic FfH. I just increased the chance to keep forges, lighthouses etc. You can't keep barracks, courthouses and such on the other hand.
I tried to make all government civics worthwhile and city states were improved the least I think. On theocracy I still think of.
I personally never use it, but I am a builder mostly. I think it should be changed though, as it benefits warmongers the most and that seems counter-intuitive. I think Rawn's ideas fit well with city-states theme.
Warmongers should go for Theocracy, feudal contract or even magocracy in my opinion.
How do you like labor civics changes? I tried to make them different and emphasize different things. I am tempted to remove apprentienceship. It is a leftover from education civics and do not fit it really well. Apprentience is also quite connected with guilds in my mind. What do you think?

Edit: Another very long post. If you can't stand it I will break it in two the next time... ;)

Well after a lot more playtesting, and a tiny bit of modding, I got some more feedback. I modified swamps to give two food and work as source of freshwater. That worked out pretty nice, and feels thematic as well. This means that swamps less ideal for a settler rush strategy but still a handy source of extra food, especially if you start out in the tundra.

While I can sort of agree that Ancient Forests, odd name by the way, look pretty strange the new graphics are an improvement. I have no idea what they are supposed to look like though, since all forests in civ 4 are ancient by RL standards. Perhaps Ancient Forests might simply look like slightly larger and darker versions of the regular forests? I haven't learned enough about modding Civ 4 to try this myself. How do you change terrain graphics?

Speaking of graphics I sort of modded Flax out. It's a neat resource but looks really odd in game. I would gladly have a go at it in photoshop myself but again I couldn't figure out how.

Heh, I guess it's a good indication about how well the mod works that the only thing I can complain about is the terrain. :D

I modded swamps so that they do not give extra food on tundra, just additional hammer. I think that solves part of the problem
If they end on grassland the terrain changes to wetland. Wetlands have base 3 base food and -1 to hammers.
This makes swamps there not grant any additional hammers. The same applies to wetland forests, jungles, and some bonuses that grant hammers (i.e. metals and horses).
Note it does not apply to additional bonuses from improvements, including the extra yelds from resources.
The biggest problem is that swamp still provide additional food while on grassland, even while not drained yet, and then can drained for even more when improvements are build. It applies to a city center if the city is founded on swamp.
Do you think it is still too much?

As for the graphics problems, I will try to experiment a bit.
To change terrain/feature graphics you have to edit CIV4ArtDefines_Terrain.xml/CIV4ArtDefines_Feature.xml
But the toughest part is to edit the graphics itself. Forest is in fact 15 nifs, but they all use one dds, so it is not so hard to recolor.
As for the flax, by the odd look you mean the base of the resource that obscures all terrain below?
If so, I might have a fix. I will post in soon.

Ok, I did some changes. How do you like it now?

Added some real photos for comparision ;)

Here comes the ancient forest.
I did some graphics tests and used the old golden ones again.
Here are the results.
From left to right: basic FfH, current seZereth's, enlarged seZereth's, broadleaf using seZereth's recolouring, my own copper & golden recoulours.

All screens taken in the same spot, no changes (on the last two added some broadleaf forest for comparision).
Improvements just can't be seen in the first three.

How do you like them. Which one should I use?

Heh, you're like some kind of unstoppable... mod making person. That was fast! :clap:

The new Flax graphics looks just right. Exactly the change I was thinking of myself.

The new ancient forest graphics are a bit of a different beast, since I have no idea what they are supposed to look like. What colour does magic trees have? That said I really like the Creepy leaves.jpg (nr 4). The change is subtle but unmistakeable, and the darker shade makes resources and units stand out far better. The lime green version (nr 1) looks a bit too garish in my opinion, and sort of smothers all other details. The "gilded" versions (nr 5 & 6) both look interesting, and works the magic nature of the forests. But the contrast is a bit stark when compared to rest of the terrain.

Nr 2 and 3 sort of look more like plantations, with trees growing in neat squares. The curse of tile based graphics strikes again. ;)

Your changes to swamps and wetlands sound promising but I'd have to playtest the changes to tell for certain. It's a very tiny detail, and I think I've made too much ruckus about it already. The only real beef I had with 3 food swamps was that it felt odd that was just as productive as a farm on grassland. But variation is the spice of any game and it's nice to be able to grow large cities without bothering with agriculture. Last game I started out on a river, half the tiles swamp, other half forested hills. Went for mining, construction and feudalism. Mines on every hill and castles in every swamp. Best city ever.

i agree fully with Wauthan about the forests
the creepy leaves is a good solution (or making them a tiny bit taller? if thats possible?!? but not so much that you can´t recognize the underlying ress)

i agree fully with Wauthan about the forests
the creepy leaves is a good solution (or making them a tiny bit taller? if thats possible?!? but not so much that you can´t recognize the underlying ress)

except...he mentioned "Magic Trees" i don´t think an ancient forest is made up mainly out of magic trees it´s just veeeryveeery old ....b u t:
maybe you could add a new resource:Magic Wood or smt like that which only appear in ancient forests (either a weaker version of the Yggdrasil, or maybe
a Mithrill equivalent for Archers, or it just give some boni to shipbuilding polearms.... manymany uses...)

Edit: one more
maybe 3 different new woodres replacing the metal line for archers (maybe polearm too?!) or smth combined Metal/wood
...and this could be lead to a new forester guild for example...:)

I like the creepy leaves the best, too. So I will switch to it in 0.12. Unless there are people that strongly disagree...
Unfortunatelly currently I do not know how to make it both adjust to terrain & inprovements and be able to change it's size. It will have to stay this size for now :(

Ancient forest is just what the name says - ancient. There was a discussion if it should be more like Fangorn or Lorien form LotR, and most people (including myself) decided that it should be more like a fangorn.
There are ents in it, but it is not magical itself.

As for the wood resources, I am afraid that 3 different resources may be a bit too much.
Just one on the other side, a magical/special wood would be great. Something like marble is a special stone. Only this one would be harvested by forester/lumbermill :)
It can be made to provide a promotion to archery units. They already can use bronze & iron in orbi, so that would be a mithril replacement... I.e. +1 electrical combat strength ;)
What do you think?

A special wood resource would be great. I always wondered why the Civilization series as a whole never included something like an exotic wood resource. Guess they felt it was redundant.

Bowyers boosted by a rare wood resource sounds like a great idea. Yet another perk for the envorimentalists in FFH. But my own favorite would be a special rare wood that boosts ships. Throughout history the shipyards ate a whole lot of forests here in Sweden. Makes sense that cultivating a supernatural type of tree would in turn let you build an awesome fleet.

Really puts another spin on the Lanun. "We must save the forests!"

My first impression of this mod is quite good, all in all a great improvement for an already great module. Well done. :D

I do have some questions regarding the gameplay, though; firstly, are the swamps supposed to be that abundant? I understand that they can appear on grasslands and tundra, which is fine, but it seems to me that they (and kelp as well) are just too common.
Perhaps this is a result of the map script that I'm using, which leads me to my second question. Right now I'm using the tectonics map script with the flavourmod; which map script and settings do you generally get the best results with?

Yeah, magic wood resources that provide/allow promotions for ships and archers could be cool. For ships it could be nice to give a large withdrawal chance, while +1 range for archers with enchanted bows would be better than lightning damage imho.


I would say it should only be harvested with Lumbermills, except that the Elves might not be able to use their wood this way. Maybe the magic bow wood and the magic naval stores should be different resources requiring different improvements. You don't really have to cut down a tree to take a limb to carve a bow from, so a Forester could be fine for it while a lumbermills would be needed for making ships out of the wood.



The magical wood resources should probably have a change to expire. I'm also thining that there should be events that make Lumbermills cause deforestation, causing you to loose the (ancient) forests and the resource. (Planting a new forests would probably be once option of the event.)


Speaking of Foresters, I'm of the opinion that having them bost the food yields of forests is overpowered. I'd rather them have a more modest bonus, like improving health. (I could have sworn that there was a tag that let improvements boost health, but when I just checked the xml I see thay can only bost happiness. Hmm...)

Throughout history the shipyards ate a whole lot of forests here in Sweden. Makes sense that cultivating a supernatural type of tree would in turn let you build an awesome fleet.

Looks like we are making a little baltic-mod here :D Guess that is because I have included hansa...
I like the idea of special wood improving ships. But I still think it can be one kind of wood, just processed differently... I just do not want to add too much resources. I have yet to find some nice graphics, and that is always easier for one than two.
For ships it could be nice to give a large withdrawal chance, while +1 range for archers with enchanted bows would be better than lightning damage imho.
Yeah, even too good in my opinion ;) range 2 is currently reserved for man-o-war, dwarven cannon and mages (through spells). Other siege engines need to be high level to take increased range as a promotion - and you suggest to give it to archers almost for free.
I think it should rather increase strenght of the unit or make it attack better. Same applies to ships - withdrawal chance I would give for sails (clothhall free promotion perhaps?), but for the hull or mast...
Have to think about it, but all opinions are welcomed :)
As for the harvesting method, I do not agree with the chance to expire. Trees can be planted again, which can not be said about ores and marble. And even for ships you do not need to cut whole forest, just some fine trees. Unless you are building a great fleet at once and do not care for replanting.
The ancient forest thing is the reason I think it must be harvested by both lumbermill (because it makes sense) and forester (to be able to harvest it while in ancient forest). But forester should give lower yelds, i.e. to compensate the improved production of ancient forest.

I will think how to lower forester's usefulnes. The food will probably go, as currently it is +2 food form forester in ancient forest, the same as you can get from farm with sanitation. You are right that something has to be done.
it seems to me that swamps (and kelp as well) are just too common.

I plan to lower the appereance chance in the next version. Kelp already has really low, but I think that map scipts use it to improve starting locations and that is why there are places where it is all over the coast.

It is really silent here recently.
Does it mean that there are no bugs or just no one plays it? ;)

To make this topic more alive I decided to post a new version. It is a high time I release it.
I advise clean install, but it should work if you just overwrite the old one. Some icons (I recall 2) will not update.
For that you need to delete the following dds: erebus_atlas in main art folder and druidic in buttons/promotions.
Depending on the amount of changes required I will post 0.33 compatibile version either as a patch or as a new version, hopefully a few hours after it is avaliable.

I have not the time to update documentation at the moment. Please check the changelog in the second post.

Enjoy!

Still playing with it, great mod, love it. No bugs to report. I find something you know I'll holler at you.

The former. :D

Really, I haven't found a single bug so far. There's the odd "graphic meltdown", were unit graphic is switched with red blobs of doom, and usual CtDs late game on huge maps. But that has nothing to do with your mod. Hopefully the release of 0.33 will help sort that out.

The only things I could post now is feature requests, but it feels goofy to start writing a wishlist. So to turn things around. Do you have any questions for your players?

And don't be too worried about the silence of the lurkers. It's most likely due to the curse of ModMods. Ergo, if you want more noise you got to make more noise. Heck! I would never have known about your mod if I hadn't decided to post a suggestion in the MarnokMod thread. Didn't even know there was such a thing as FFH2 ModMods until then.

I really like your mod, even if I gave up last time because of a few CTD (not repetitive though), some of the features should be put in the original FFH
so I play either this one or Fall further
don't you consider including marmok use of villages ans lairds ?
thanks for the enjoyment

I've been playing ORBI on and off for the past couple of weeks. I've been trying out the guilds and stuff, not really trying to win but still finding myself ahead. Like many new features, the clever human player will find a way to benefit, while the AI ignores them. I suppose I should go up a level or two in difficulty.

Haven't yet installed the new version, but I'll get to that after I finish the game I'm on.

BTW: What does ORBI stand for anyway?

It is really silent here recently.
Does it mean that there are no bugs or just no one plays it? ;)



I´m busy in RL for the moment ,i hope i´m able to play your mod
more extensive in about a week.

for the moment i have only ideas but feedback will come as soon as i´m able to play a few hours undisturbed;)

Found a bug. The Duskwood promotion doesn't seem to work as intended. At the moment it's always available when a unit levels up, regardless of access to the Duskwood resource. And if you have tapped the resource with a forester, only new units get the promotion, the old ones stay unupgraded.

In other words: It doesn't work as the Copper, Iron or Mithril promotion.

I LOVE this modmod, but assassins are still ugly for my Svartalfar people.
So I modded it :D
But the model with "Dark Elf Only Mod 1.1J" isn't so good, so i'm still sad.
Pleeeese, i need a good dark elf assassin! :please:

Really like your mod. Playing the update now.
Thnx

Thanks for all the replies and good words people.
I guess I have sounded a bit desperate... But in fact I thought that you watch the olimpics ;)

Really, I haven't found a single bug so far. There's the odd "graphic meltdown", were unit graphic is switched with red blobs of doom, and usual CtDs late game on huge maps. But that has nothing to do with your mod.

Well, I hope you are right and it will keep it so. I added some graphics and suspected that some of them can be a bit broken. Did you experience the problems without Orbi?

Ergo, if you want more noise you got to make more noise.
Well, I am quite shy in that matter... ;)

As for the features requests, feel free to post them. I can't promise to add all of them, and do not really know if I will have much time to work on them soon, but still would like to hear it.

As for the duskwood bug, thanks for reporting. I will remove it form the list of promotions avaliable with level-ups. Unfortunatelly I currently do not know how to make it being applied to all units when you get the resource. The metal promotions are handled in SDK I think and for now I am limited to python & xml, so I am using the nightmare mechanics which works the way you described. I will try to find a solution though.

I LOVE this modmod, but assassins are still ugly for my Svartalfar people.
I did not really touch the recon line, I did most graphics changes in melee one as I added the polearm line back and had to fill the void. I will look into it, but I am limited to the existing models for now and I think that svart assassin should be something special. I hope seZereth or other real art guys will look into it soon...
In the meantime, can you give me a general idea what you did and wanted to do?

As for my questions for you, I am interested in the general stability, bugs, even minor ones like misplaced icon and such, but the most I need the AI feedback. I tried to use AI-friendly ways of doing things, but spells are AI's weak spot. I guess you do not often see AI looking for resources using prospectors and millers, do you? I am especially interested in the guild balance and AI using them.

The name... Orbi is just "world" in latin. Well, orbis is the proper word, so orbi means something like "for the world". But that was not really intended.
I wanted the name that is in latin to give it a real medieval feel which I try to incorporate here. So, a medieval world, but I messed it a bit ;)
But it is just a name, and not everyone can come to an idea so good as "Fall Further" - I really like that. Well, at least I could not... :(

Not seeing where one could make a resource a prereq. Maybe that is something Xien could add into the schema. Resource prereq's would have to be minoccurs of NONE but could be handy to add to some promotions, heck even be fun to add to some techs. But then again I only looked casually through the XML not the python.

edit:that actually sounds better than I thought. Imagine not researching anything past bronze working if you had to have some bronze first. or horses or reagents etc etc

Added that one in a few days ago actually ;) You can specify as many resources (or as few) as you desire.

The only issue with making the Resource Pre-req be used for the Weapon Promotions is that those are also tied to a unit's WeaponTier. Though I am thinking I might as well add that as a pre-req just so we can get the Weapons out of the Python code as well. Useless tag for much of anything else though sadly. Maybe it can be tied to Unit Tier instead, since I already made that a Prereq option, and it DOES line up fairly well with what the Weapon Tiers typically are. But that leaves you out of luck for the oddball combinations (the few archers & Mounted or Disciple who can use Weapons)

On the other hand. It might be time for me to make the WeaponMod into a reality, even if I haven't completely sorted out how to handle the map portion...

I did not really touch the recon line, I did most graphics changes in melee one as I added the polearm line back and had to fill the void. I will look into it, but I am limited to the existing models for now and I think that svart assassin should be something special. I hope seZereth or other real art guys will look into it soon...
In the meantime, can you give me a general idea what you did and wanted to do?

You are right, I was OT a little :hammer2:
Anyway, I've done my first work, the Svartalfar Nightblade :D
It's just a light (darker :D) reskin of Ljosalfar Assassin, but I think now it's pretty decent for a darkelf army.
http://www.triware.it/ebay/richard/nightblade.jpg

The original post mentions it is for FFH .32 patch L, yet your changelog mentions the Mazatl and swamps. Is this compatible with FF .41?

4.)about the fireship mentioned above
i think it shouldn´t be a unit itself but maybe a spelllike promotion available
with millitary strategy or warfare, which makes any ship you activate it on a fireship
maybe a new tech: naval tactics, new building: marine academy which adds the promotion to ships build in this city


Maybe you turn a boat into a fireship with a spell that can kill the unit like burning blood?

You are right, I was OT a little :hammer2:
Anyway, I've done my first work, the Svartalfar Nightblade :D

Not really OT, I just explained why I did not touch it yet... :P
I quite like your recolouring by the way, it looks much better in game than here. Does not fit perfectly the other svart units, but expect it added in the next version (if you do not mind). It is much better than this leather chick...

Not seeing where one could make a resource a prereq.

There is a tag in Bonusinfo.xml that allows to specify a free promotion the resource grats to a new build unit. If only it could be changed to grant the promotion for already build units, it would be fine.
New python tag would work fine, but that might be too much for such a simple change... Anything that conflicts metal weapons promotions is out of question, as all archers in Orbi can use bronze & iron, some can even get mithrill ones and I would like to keep that as it is.
For now, it will work exactly as nightmares do - only new units get it. sad, but you can get it quite early (with tracking), so it is not so hard to get all your units equiped with better bows or whatever they use (arqebusiers can get it too :crazyeye: )

Regarding the fireships, I am afraid that promotion or spell would make Ai sacrifice all it's ships... Or just not use it at all. When I tried the fireships, AI did not used it the right way. I think the only way would be make a promotion that makes ship explode on lost combat, and that is not exactly what I wanted to do...
I am not conviced for the idea and because of the above issues, it will probably do not come back. It just did not feel right for me, more like cheating, and also do not add too much to combat.

The original post mentions it is for FFH .32 patch L, yet your changelog mentions the Mazatl and swamps. Is this compatible with FF .41?
No. I just added Mazatl civ here because I felt like I needed some civ specialized in jungles and Vehem agreed. But I do not plan to add any more FF civs. Not all of them I do like, also I did not play FF enough to be able to balance this mod in it. So, currently no plans for conversion. Do you think I should base Orbi on FF in more or less distant future ;) ?
I can't support both FfH and FF versions. Too much work in updating and too much differences to make both veresions balanced without introducing big differences

I quite like your recolouring by the way, it looks much better in game than here. Does not fit perfectly the other svart units, but expect it added in the next version (if you do not mind). It is much better than this leather chick...

Yeah, anyway seZ has just promised (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7131387&postcount=1081) a real model, so it's is only a temporary patch ;)

Hey guys

Almost got the internet myself. Looking forward to trying out 0.12. Hope it fixes the issue I seem to run into whereby the game crashes out for no reason :sad:

Not sure whether this is a normal FfH problem or the ORBI mod!

Speak to you soon guys!

Al

just my 2 cents, but on the "to use FF as a base or not" issue, my suggestion is: "definitely make this use FF as a base!" :D it would be awesome imho, cuz the changes in this mod seem to complement those in FF really well. I admit I haven't tried this out yet, but just looking at the changelog is enough to tell ;P

btw, quick question: do the guilds you added overwrite the ones in base FFH, or does it mean that there are more guilds in this modmod?

thanx in advance for your reply and keep up the great work ;)

As I said to Magister a while back, I'm quite happy to have a selection of modmods, each with its own unique features. Using another mod as your base invites complications as it evolves on its own. Isn't it enough having to track updates to the main mod? So make yours the way you want it with whatever components you think would make for a good game and don't worry about keeping up with the others. I'm sure I'll like it.

I am of the opinion that including FF content isn't necessary or even a very good idea, but that using the same DLL and schema could greatly improve your modmod. That is what I intend to do with mine (although I may make minor SDK changes too, at least eventualy). Also, it would make it pretty simple for others to merge Orbi and FF if they so desire.

Do you think I should base Orbi on FF in more or less distant future ;) ?
I can't support both FfH and FF versions. Too much work in updating and too much differences to make both veresions balanced without introducing big differences

No, I was not expecting you to do so if you had not already. I was just confused because I either missed or did not notice that you had added the Mazatl specifically to your own modmod, as opposed to operating through FF.

I have no concerns with Orbi modmod being based on FFH alone.

Back in action after a run-in with particularly bad computer virus. :sad:

"Graphic meltdown" only happens in Orbi. But it's likely a weird bug caused by my aging hardware. Lategame CtDs are actually far less common then "vanilla" FFH, and Orbi seems far more stable then FF. Why FF keeps dying on me is a mystery.

I've got a few suggestions for features but I'm not sure how feasible they are.

- Please remove the instakill result from exploring lairs. It's not fun.

- Add guild specific events. Would gladly help brainstorming.

- Add unique unit spawn from lairs (New feature in MarnokMod). Good fun.

- Change Privateer graphic for one with animated attack. Or drop the unit, since you inserted a promotion that overrides the need for it.

- The Dovellio faction could use a little boost since you gave their advantage to all civs. (Units no longer have building requirements.) Since they got a wolf theme I was thinking that you could add a hero wolf pack unit to their starter army. One more unit that early makes a lot of difference, and their current "hero" could use the support.

- Unique unit recruits. Either through guild events, or through lairs/villages. Or even both. I'm sure you got a bunch of unit graphics that you wanted to add but couldn't fit in with any civilization.

- Remove some promotions from archers. Since you added metal & duskwood promotions as well as ranged attack these units have become far stronger compared to FFH. So if possible remove some of their versatility to compensate. Or give -1 unit strength.

- General promotion overhaul. I have no idea if it's possible but some unit/promotion combinations are very strange and since everything can counter everything the need for a mixed army is pretty small. The AI can not deal with massed archers. Perhaps a system hard counters could be used? But that feels like a heck of a lot of work to fix a nonissue. Maybe for Civilization 5. ;)

- Flying units, or really mobile amphibians. Griffons got all the glory here, and the AI is actually good as using these guys. Clashes between naval armies are a lot of fun but very late game it can turn into a chore. A group of fliers (limited to four per civilization) could speed up the destruction of an already beaten AI, and adds another layer of late game strategy. No dragons though.

- Resurrection ritual, that brings back either a fallen hero (Any fallen hero?) or your highest level unit (No ships). Death by lucky shot is somewhat too common, sort of like having your battleship sunk by pitchfork wielding militia in Civilization 2.

- Interguild competition. There's too much advantage in having as many guilds as possible in your cities. Perhaps some of them don't mix well?

- Wolves, lions and tigers are rare and crappy units. Could you give wolves Mobility 1, Lions combat 1 and tigers Woodsman 1?

Some feedback on the AI:
- AI doesn't know how to use or counter archer type units. High strength units are quickly cut down to size since each cheap archer does percentage ranged damage. Suggestion: -1 unit strength on archers. Locks them into support roles.

- AI doesn't know how to spread guilds. Occasionally uses massed guild units as expensive cannon fodder. Suggestion: Founding city spreads guild like religion.

- AI makes very competent use of naval units. Suggestion: Keep up the good work. :goodjob:

- AI surprisingly unaggressive. I'm nearly always the one who declares war in an otherwise peaceful, not very apocalyptic, world. Hyborem needs to get his act together. Suggestion: Hyborem & Basium in permanent alliance with summoning civilization. Both start with strong armies and immediately declare war on all other civilizations. Doomsday needs a kick start.

- AI does a fair job at using spells. It does a bad job at building prospectors. Suggestion: Drop the spell on prospectors and give the founding building +1 earth mana? Or can you increase the chance of mines finding resources without granting the magic?

I really like Wauthan's suggestion for guild events. For instance a war between two guilds that would require you to exile one or the other, or to pay them both off.

And if you do integrate the enhanced Mercenaries, consider extending it to other guilds that have specialists to offer.

Finally, from time to time I have a Prospector gain some experience points along with the Adventurer promotion. How about an Adventurer 2 promotion or something else to use those EPs on? (And might Explorer be a better term? Less likely to be confused with the Adventurer unit)

Thanks for the sugestions. Keep it up!
I really like most of them, but unfortunatelly I will not have internet acces and time in the next week to work on Orbi. The good part for me is that I will have to update it only once and will skip all the 0.33 patches that will be released this week. :) Also, I should have much more time in september.
I will take a look at the new version of Marnok's mod and see what I can carry over here. Expanded mercs will be in for sure.

Is AI weak in Prospectors, millers & traders only or all guildmasters? I tried to copy everything from BtS (especiall for all except the above three), so AI shoul know how to use them...

In my games, the AI handled the spreading of corporations quite well (in Immortal games). I have not checked for their use of the prospectors' or miller's ability to find new resources. Maybe someone could run a couple of automated games and see what they do with those units? (I already updated to 33, erasing my 32 copy.)
I am relatively sure that the AI has used archers to diminish defenses when attacking cities, although I can't recall right now if the AI has used them to attack units outside cities nor for "softening" units before sending in troops with higher strength.
As I said before, great mod. Great use of resources that might otherwise lie idle.

Thank you.

Hi friends,
I worked hardly with NifSkope & PaintShopPro9, so here is my personal set of Svartalfar units, waiting seZ ;)

Archer: from Dark Elf Only Mod 1.1J, adjusted ears and skin palette
Longbowman: from Dark Elf Only Mod 1.1J, adjusted ears and skin palette
Assassin: from Dark Elf Only Mod 1.1J, adjusted ears and skin palette, retained old model head, added just some red lines on face, changed weapons
Shadow: from Dark Elf Only Mod 1.1J, adjusted ears and skin palette, retained old model head, added cape, changed weapons
Ranger: from Dark Elf Only Mod 1.1J, adjusted ears and skin palette, added cape, changed weapons
Swordsman: great model and texture by neener, adjusted skin and armor palette, added ears and changed weapon&shield
Champion: : great model and texture by neener, adjusted skin and armor palette, added ears and changed weapon&shield

Hey... still no closer to getting the internet! lol

Any idea when the 0.33 compatible version will be out?

Thanks

Al

Well, assuming that Ahwaric is back from his net-less existence it will probably take him at least a week just to catch up with 0.33e. With patch master Kael working his magic FF has changed quite a bit, so I doubt Orbi will "upgrade" smoothly.

But my predictions have been known to occasionally be wrong. :D

I am back :)

In fact I am back for a few days already, but was too busy to post or mod anything.
Fortunatelly I will have more time now, so expect update to 0.33e in a day or two.
I have to check the changes in 0.33 and see what should I change in orbi. I also want to check some other mods development to see what I can get.
If you have some more suggestions post them here.

it's good to see you're still around Ahwaric, lots of good stuff going on in here ;)

Good to see you're back Ahwaric. Looking forward to be playing Orbi again. Got a few suggestions for guild specific events, but those can wait until you're up and running again. But if you do have time to spare it would be neat if you could post some lore or other fluff about the guilds.

Also glad to see you back Ahwaric. Definitely looking forward to the next version. :goodjob:

WOOT! Ahwaric! Ur back! So looking forward to this. Internet arriving soon as well so I'll be able to dl it at home! :D

Al

Howzit coming? (Thought maybe giving the thread a bump might help.)

I am really sorry for breaking my promise. I had some real life stuff that I had to take care first, then took some days of holidays (at last! :)

Anyway, I already updated my files to schema changes in FfH 0.33 and will work on the other things tomorrow, so I hope it will be avaliable soon. No exact terms this time, just in case ;)

Good to see that you are still interested in this modmod :)

Dear Ahwaric:
Great to read you are back. I will be looking forward to the updates.

Regards

No worries Ahwaric, everyone needs some downtime no question.

Glad to see you're back on the case though. :D

Just wanted to let you know that there are those who enjoy your creations and are looking forward to the next version. Your modmod has some fun stuff that we don't get anywhere else. But don't feel like you have to rush.

That was a hard one. It took a while to update Orbi to 0.33g, but it is finally here (http://files.filefront.com/Orbi+013zip/;11910797;/fileinfo.html).
Not many changes this time, apart from the update itself. There are some things I am thinking/working on and I hope to include at least some of them before 0.34. Now when my thesis is finished I hope to spend my time better... ;)
Full changelog is in the second post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7023649&postcount=2), as well as some of the things I am working on.

Unfortunatelly I had not the time to play any FfH game (modded or not) since 0.34 is out, so I just checked some changes. If you find any additions/changes to the basic mod that you think I have missed, please let me know. The same applies to any other bug.

If you have any ideas for guild events, please post them too :) Or any opinion on the things I am working on/should focus on.

Have fun!

Edit:
I accidentaly disabled TumTum for barbarians. Here is a quickfix (deleted)

Edit2:
Found a big bug with somnium (did not start at all). It is now fixed and you can get patch 0.13a here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=10008). Changelog in post 2 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7023649&postcount=2)

Hey Ahwaric, I'm trying to check out the new version, small problem, when I click on the patch a link, it brings me to a screen saying I don't have permission to access it. Looks like it's pointing to a forum post instead of filefront. Any ideas?

My bad. I posted a link to a file while editing - that is why you did not have the permission.
I fixed all the links, so it should work now.
Sorry for the problem.

No luck with download. File Front says it's missing. (7:25pm CST, Sep 28)

That is strange as all the links work fine for me now.
You may try to go to http://hosted.filefront.com/Olchomir and then select Orbi 0.13.

If you still will not be able to get it I will reupload it somewhere else tomorrow afternoon (well, my afternoon anyway...).

It's going now. Must have been an intermittent problem.

I was about to report a horrible CtD class bug introduced by 0.13, but then I noticed that the fan on my videocard was strangely quiet. Damn thing is so strong it sucked the wiring right into the blades. :crazyeye:

It's good to be playing Orbi again. Had forgotten how fun this mod is.

Edit: Hmm... I keep getting early (around 30 turns) cvgamecoredll.dll errors.

I played a bit and did not get the crash you mentioned. Anyone else is getting it? Also, can you give me some info on civs & what was happening in game, or even post a screen?

While hunting for the above bug I have found another one - svartalfar worker art define was missing and causing CtD. I also fixed red blob khazad axemen problem.
The fix is attached below. It does not break anything.

I played a bit and did not get the crash you mentioned. Anyone else is getting it? Also, can you give me some info on civs & what was happening in game, or even post a screen?

While hunting for the above bug I have found another one - svartalfar worker art define was missing and causing CtD. I also fixed red blob khazad axemen problem.
The fix is attached below. It does not break anything.

Man, you are good. I was just about to report the Svalt worker crash.

Since nothing else seemed to work I installed your quickfix. Lo' and behold, the cvgamecoredll.dll error went away. Sort of figures since about 30 turns usually marks the appearance of workers.

hey there Ahwaric, I love most of the changes you made in this mod :goodjob: I was wondering why you decided to take out gunpowder resource though :D

My bad. I posted a link to a file while editing - that is why you did not have the permission.
I fixed all the links, so it should work now.
Sorry for the problem.

No worries Ahwaric, I've got it all up & running now & I'm glad to have your modmod back in action. All's looking good so far but I see you have a save breaker patch in the works so I'll probably hold off on getting too far in my current game till that hits.

Thanks again.

I removed gunpowder for several reasons
1) there is no such resource, black powder was made by mixing charcoal, sulfur and saltpeter. They are common enough to never cause problems in getting gunpowder. I know that FfH is fantasy, but I try to keep Orbi stick with real life in the things that are present in real life ;)

2)Arquebusiers no longer ignore city defences (I find this idea strange, arquebusiers do and longbows do not? judging by the method of shooting it should be the other way around). Thus, they are weaker, but quite cheap. So, I do not want to add rare resource requirement.

3)I added several new resources, so I cut the one I found not needed.

The patch will probably be ready tomorrow. I plan to play a LAN game today. I will test the new features and I am sure I will find some new bugs. After fixing them I will post the patch.

I see, you have a point there. but I like to have gunpowder and arquebusiers as almighty hi-tech units, in vanilla bts I tend to lose interest after the gunpowder "era" kicks in ;) is duskwood the only "strategic" resource you added btw? I like that a lot, special wood reminds me of Patapon, awesome game :D

Do not get me wrong, they are still powerfull. Bit weaker than crossbows, but much cheaper.
I think of boosting them a bit. I just do not want the "ignore city defences" on anything except siege engines. I also do not want any of the units to be self-sufficient. I prefer the need for diversified armies :)
Currently arquebusiers have the same collateral & ranged damage as crossbows (even a bit higher limit at ranged attacks), but have 10 strength instead of 11 and are weaker against melee, no bonus on hills too.

diversified armies are always fun, your reworking of the melee line is great. combat is a little streamlined in base FFH, shock I-II are by far the best promotions availablre imho ;)

I have some kind of a weird error...
I can't play Play Now! because when I select any leader it still shows "random leader" in the center and "Next" does nothing... And if I start a custom game I'm crashed at the beginning...

P.S. Crash is caused by the FFH movie... Let me try to guess it by myself :).
That's weird... I just moved FFH from Laptop to PC and now THIS.

Hey, have you thought about implimenting some of the changes from Mailbox's economy mod? Im not sure it would be compatible just overwriting files because of different improvements. I think it would be cool to mix some of that mod in orbi.

Love orbi... it rocks!

Ok, after some testing I decided to release the patch. You can get it here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=10008).

Seems to be working fine, but the expanded mercenaries feature when used by human player in multiplayer (AI still uses old mechanics) is causing instant OOS. I will try to find a workaround for this, as I really like it for SP and hot seat games but for now, be warned.
I have added Orbi menu theme, and by the way decided to add the s to the name to make it proper latin. So, it is called Orbis in menu (latin - orb, like our terra planet).

I am not sure what causing your problems Dean. Orbi is using resources from FfH 0.33 directory, so if there is none with that name it will not start.

I will check Mailbox's mod, I plan to do it for some time now :)

By the way, have you read the 0.34 changelog? Some great stuff in there. I am a bit worried about guilds removal (hope it will not break mine), but hope it will be ok. There are some new modding options that I plan to utilize, I will also probably re-add some of the removed guilds. I think mostly of mages guild, let's say Circle of Eight ;), using normal guild mechanics. Guild of the nine will still be in. I also want some kind of thieves guild in game, but I think about merging it with Stewards. What do you think?
I will miss Barbatos, too. On the other hand, I was planing an update to Marnok's last release. But now, I will wait and see the version of The Team.

My only problem now is with the intro movie crash every time it starts... So your mod is ok :). Sorry for disturbing you.

I hope .34 doesn't break guilds as well, I like some of the old ones you mentioned, as well as the ones in orbi now. Think you could keep guild of hammers as well? maybe make it spread like corporations for the free forge? - Same with the mages guild, I think if it could get beefed up a bit with a special building and spreadable like religions and corporations.
A new thieves guild is cool, maybe have a random effect where they steal opponents gold for a price and have a chance of getting caught? -4 relations? As well as introduce some of the espionage features (looks like some of espionage is in .34 but how much is still unknown)

Ran into some strange happenings, that I'll report here since it's what I'm playing. But I doubt it is an Orbi problem that causes it. When using Alazkan's Black Mirror to create his illusionary image, a couple of odd things occur: sometimes the image simply refuses to attack an opponent (one that Alazkan himself will attack). This seems to happen when attacking on a diagonal against an opponent on a hill. And when Alazkan and the illusion are on the same space and attack an animal (both have Subdue), the illusion will not kill the animal and Alazkan will. This is normal, but it leaves the subdued animal on the same space as the image, and when the image disappears so does the animal. And finally, when Alazkhan and illusion use their one-two punch to move onto a Lair, and the Lair happens to spawn before the next turn, Alazkan gets kicked back to just outside the border of the nearest City!

Now that patch "B" is out, I'm gonna sit down for a long game. Everything's looking great so far minus a small red blob problem with diseased corpses for the Sheaim. I tried exiting the game & loading the save game fresh but they're still there. I can send you the save if it'd be helpful.

Much appreciate the effort Ahwaric.

anti-blobs solution:
unpack diseased corpse.zip to \Beyond the Sword\Mods\Fall from Heaven 2 033\Assets\Art\Units

:)

For Ahwaric:
dark harvester.zip is my rapid mod for Infernal Assassin, try it ;)

Much appreciate that fix Rishardas, it did the trick.

I am starting to get some CTD's in this last version. I'll see if they're reproduceable and link a save.

Thanks again all.

anti-blobs solution:
unpack diseased corpse.zip to \Beyond the Sword\Mods\Fall from Heaven 2 033\Assets\Art\Units

Thanks for help Rishardas and sorry to be late with the fix. I will post mine anyway (attached below), as your version still has three identical units. That is my fault and it is the hight time I fix it (it is a leftover from my try to include Scions of Patria in Orbi. It is currently on hold, especially that I need to get Tarquelne's approval first).
The fixes are compatibile, no matter what order do you apply them, and does not require each other. Just unpack mine to main orbi directory.

I quite like the infernall assasin. I would prefer something more demonic in appereance (succubus with a whip? ... ehem ... or daggers ;) ), but I will get it into the next version :) But I will try to play a bit with succubus in the future ;)

I do not see a point in another major update before friday, but if you find any bugs I will appreciate if you post them here. All other opinions are welcomed as well, i.e. did anyone check the main menu theme?

Well... the Orbis theme is a bit odd. The music fits the setting well, sounding almost like a requiem, but I don't feel like it fits the image. The image itself is nice but what's the connection to "orbis"? I'm a dofus when it comes to expectations but my minds eye sees a planet when I picture OrbiMod. Possibly a planet suffering under the siege of misfit gods.

Also you're too humble. Everyone that will ever see that theme already know that Orbis is a mod for FFH2. Time to go nuts and create a better tagline. I assume you prefer a quote in latin:

- ORBIS -

A posse ad esse (From possibility to actuality)

Pactum serva (Keep the faith)

Osculare pultem meam! (Kiss my grits!)

Omnia mutantur nos et mutamur in illis (All things change, and we change with them)

Id est mihi, id non est tibi! (It is mine, not yours!)

Post tenebras lux (After the darkness, light)

Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit (To boldly go where no man has gone before)

Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis (You don't know the power of the dark side)

Stercus accidit (. .. .. .. . happens)

Theatrum mundi (The theatre of the world)

I'm sure they're correct 'cause I found 'em on the interwebs. Go here -> http://www.yuni.com/library/latin.html

As for bugs I've just encountered minor ones. Somethings weird with the flames graphic but I'm not sure that's because of Orbi. The text in the Agriculture civic "pop-up" is missing, the one that appears when the civic becomes available. I've encountered a few other bugs but those two are the only repeat offenders.

Are you going to work on the soundsets for the units? With all the changes in graphics some units have ended up with unexpected sounds. Most noticeably are the mannish grunts of elven females, but other oddities occur here and there.

I am glad that you like the music - I have been thinking of changing it. The art is quite close to what I had in mind - a powerfull city during trade activities/siege. It is close but not perfect, so I will keep looking for another art then, especially since you do not like it.

The connection to Orbis is a distant one. I picture Orbis as a mod that gets some more of the real medieval world into the fantasy world of Erebus (FfH world). So, calling it Orbis was a bit of a joke, as I think it is a common agreement that Erebus is flat... So, I have a picture of a city - in fact, it is a real city, Constantinople - the Vasileuousa Polis (Queen of Cities) or "City of the World's Desire".

The name Orbi/Orbis was just a working title... If I would call it today it might be i.e. Theatrum Mundi, but for clarity I will probably keep the old name. No matter how it is called, it just should work.
But I will replace the description in the next version. Thanks for the advice.

I have found some more bugs and decided to put them in another patch, the last one for 0.33 I hope. It does not break anything and you can get it at the usual place (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=10008) (I just replace the file every time I release new patch)

The art is quite close to what I had in mind - a powerfull city during trade activities/siege. It is close but not perfect, so I will keep looking for another art then, especially since you do not like it.

Aw-shucks, man. I didn't say I didn't like it, didn't I? The picture looks fine, if a bit unexpected by yours truly. ;)

Remember that there's no person on this whole planet that play Orbis as much as you do. This means that the main concern is that you feel comfortable with your own mod. You're putting a lot of hours into this, and the work needs to be fun. The second hand enjoyment remains much appreciated though. :goodjob:

I think I may have figured out my CTD's. I think I missed installing the "g" patch from the original FFH. I couldn't remember so I reinstalled that then reinstalled your mod mod and patches. The CTD's disappeared. Don't know if it's coincidence but I'll take what I can get. :D

As far as the menu theme, I really like the artwork you've chosen. It has a "feel" to it, hard to describe but sets the mood. Just like Wauthan points out, your enjoyment is the main thing. It's impossible to cater to everyone's sense of style, they vary too much.

I'm just real appreciative I have some Orbi I can tab too in-between studies. I'm starting to look like :crazyeye: I've been studying so much heh.

Ahwaric, there are red blobs instead of flames... in CIV4ArtDefines_Feature.xml the right fscale is 45 and the right ModelFile is "Art/Terrain/Features/Flames/tribalvillage.nif".

Thanks again for the best mod of FFH2 :goodjob:

Aw-shucks, man. I didn't say I didn't like it, didn't I? The picture looks fine, if a bit unexpected by yours truly. ;)

Remember that there's no person on this whole planet that play Orbis as much as you do. This means that the main concern is that you feel comfortable with your own mod.

No you did not. But I really do want other people to like the changes i do - that is why I released it in the first place. And I really hope that there are people that play Orbi more than I do, as I did have time to play only one full game and a few part ones in recent months... But that has finally changed
So, if you have any opinions, I really appreciate them and try to accomodate - if I feel comfortable with it :)
I probably need to talk more about orbi in the main FfH forum, as there are not many suggestions on the proposed changes here. So, the more I try to take care of the ones I get from you.

I found the flame graphics problem - I did not change it while updating to 0.33... It will be fixed in the next version.
I hope to find a cause for the graphics meltdown, as there are big changes to city art in the new FfH, and I am going to revise unit art one by one.
I really want to update sounds of the units and try to do it, but I will have to seek good soundsets first, as I got the grunts from unmodded FfH...
By the way, do you think I should use different soundsets for different civs? FfH uses arabic most of the time, but I made them unique. So the ljosalfar speak "celtic" and svartalfar speak french ;)

If any of you want to have the right flames model before 0.34, here it is:
Edit: (I had the wrong file for a few minutes so if you got it then, get it again)

D'oh!
Svartalfar Beastmaster have the same model of the Ranger.
So this is a little fix, just a fast work with NifSkope & PSP9.

Waiting seZ's art ;)

nice model, you should try posting it in the main FFH forums as well :goodjob:

Gekko;7348590']nice model, you should try posting it in the main FFH forums as well :goodjob:

I agree. The model is really nice and I do not think Kael visits this thread...
I have already added it and it will be included in the next version.

Talking of which, I have finished updating to 0.34. Or to be more precise, rebuild it from scratch basing on 0.34 files. I fixed some bugs and such on the way, but it surely needs testing if I did not forgot to include something. :mischief:
Currently, I am adding new stuff (changelog is in the second post). I will probably post a new version in 2 or 3 days.

Gekko;7348590']nice model, you should try posting it in the main FFH forums as well :goodjob:

I need more time.... ranger and beastmaster are a lot alike, too much for me.
seZ is the Messiah, but his masterpieces need time to born, so I'll update my temporary pack for Svartalfar (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=10469).

PS: thank you Ahwaric, Orbi rocks!!! :thumbsup:

Im way excited for the new version!
Any chance of making orbi a modmodmod of FF in the future? totally understand if its too much work. Both modmods are awsome and its hard to choose which one to play.

I second sputnik, I'd love to see these two masterpieces merged :)

I still think of merging with FF, but it is a lot of work. I also did not play it for a long time, so it will be hard for me to balance.
To tell the truth, I would probably also disable some civs for my own use - as I have said before, not all are for my taste.

What are the main features you miss in Orbi that are in FF? I am going to keep stealing nice things from other mods, so who knows ;)

I have almost finished the 0.14 version of Orbi. I still have some stuff to change (mostly cosmetic, but not only), hopefully patch g will be released tomorrow so I can update to it.

The detailed changelog is in the second post. If you have any comments, let me know, I might be able to include them before releasing.

the additional civs are all good imho and there's a game option for disabling each one of them so it's not an issue ;)

Civ4lerts is great.

and then of course all the other FF additions... I especially love ranged attack for archers and siege.

btw, FF's XML files are a lot easier to deal with than FFH's and there a lot of additional stuff for modders to play with ;)

The things I like about FF are the new civs (especailly some of the civs comming in the next version that I have playtested), and rituals... and odds and ends like caster range attacks, and teleportation, different spell spheres. As for general combat, techs and map terrain I like the way orbi does things - (although I would like to see horses flanking boosted a bit)
However, if I had to pick between which mods to merge, I would rather orbi merge jeckels fort mod over FF, so I dont know.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=243427 - latest version
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=181921 info on what the mod does
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=169009 more info

as much as I love FF, orbi has stolen my heart... it is really fun to play.

way excited for tomorrow if patch g and orbi .14 comes out!

@gekko - you haven't tried orbi? there are ranged attacks as well - definately worth a download!

Just checked the changelog!!! awesome changes
elves get bear totem unit!
Earth ele bombard
farms on hills - could you add the biology tech - or mix the effects of what biology did to another tech?
lucian hero
stone skin effects stacks
expanded mercs ???

Now even more excited!

BTW Illians have a dragon too, do they get cult?

I think it would also be cool if the circle of eight granted the twincast promotion.

Gekko;7358917']the additional civs are all good imho and there's a game option for disabling each one of them so it's not an issue ;)

I know, and that is probably what I would do in my personal version...

and then of course all the other FF additions... I especially love ranged attack for archers and siege.

Well, I am 90% sure it is one of the things that were in Orbi before it got to FF :D

btw, FF's XML files are a lot easier to deal with than FFH's and there a lot of additional stuff for modders to play with ;)

Really? In fact, I have not seen excel version of FF, and that hurts as I would have transport all things manually.
I am aware of the additions, but they are dependant on sdk. For now, I do not use one and that makes my job easier ;)

I really like Jeckel's forts. The culture part of them for sure. Let me see what I can do.

Sputnik: I thought about Illians, but I think they are too-single minded on the ice things to get cult. But on the other side, Sheaim are probably too...
As for the twincast, I would prefer something that supports other spells, not summons. Especially alteration ones, but this is rather hard to do. Summons are strong already.

Well, I am 90% sure it is one of the things that were in Orbi before it got to FF :D

They were definitely in Orbi before FF, but they were in MagisterModmod long before that. I believe that ranged attacks for archers (I don't think I'd given it to siege yet) is one of the changes that was in the version I actually released, back in January.

just checked the changelog for 0.34 Orbi, sounds great. I'm definitely gonna give this release a try :D

btw, other great features from FF are definitely the new spell spheres and all the changes to the Elohim, and the rituals ( those are great cuz it's something the AIs fully understand so it makes them better ;)

wondering how the progress is comming? wish there was something I could do to help.

I will try to post a new version today. Currently I am hunting for bugs and trying to find unique art for new units.
I decided to implement your animal idea in this version, basic version first, so I am working on it now :)

As for the help, I need ideas and opinions. Also, if you know any steampunk/da vinci style unit art I would appreciate it.
Does anybody know if it is posible to adapt Rise of Legends, Dawn of War or Mark of Chaos art to Civ IV format?

Dont know if this is what you are looking for, but I will periodically post art i find in this post as an edit....

Here is a steampunk unit I found, would be awsome for a long ranged attack hero for your Mechanos civ. Maybe it can do up to 90% damage on most units and up to 100% on lvl 1 units.
artwork: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=270296

Warhammer might have some art you could use... - here is warhammer 1.4 ... http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=232 - but you probably already use this stuff :P

Would you want a flame thrower unit in your mechanos civ? it seems like it is a really late game tech civ...

Glad you liked the animal idea. cant wait to see it!

Unfortunatelly, It seems I will not be able to post a new version today. It is working, but I really want to test it a bit, maybe I will be able to add some better art too.
I just do not want to rush it.
Sorry for the delay.

take your time, and kudos on including doviello morphing into animals, it's definitely gonna be fun ;)

im not positive, but I think Ahwaric is making animals give doviello units power... not allowing them to morph into animals. Although I could be mistaken.

Take you time, its important to have a complete game... however, if you ever need an extra play tester... Im available :)

I had another idea, just throwing it out there - the world improvements that provide mana aren't anything special besides just being an existing mana node. I remember in orbi some improvements gave mana when i think FFH2 didn't. I was thinking... to make those special places more important to capture, it would be cool if improvements that only give mana and no production or commerice bonus would give extra mana. So for example the pyre of the seraphic would give 2 or 3 fire mana. Otherwise, its just a glorified fire node.

Do steampunk graphics from civ 3 work with civ 4? some of the units there look decent, and could be used/adapted?

That is right, I try to implement ideas from sputnik's thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=295902)
So no morphing to animals. But I may think about it in the future.

Currently it works as follows:
Whole thing is connected to subdue animal promotion. You can get it the normal way, plus all doviello melee & recon units get it for free. Same applies to rangers, druids & beastmasters.
This promotion allows you to adopt one totem animal. When adopted it blocks all further adoptions, so only one per unit.
The possible promotions are:
Wolf totem +15% strength, +20% withdrawal
Bear Totem +30% strength
Polar Bear Totem +40% strength, +20% cold resistance
Lion Totem +1 attack strength, immune to fear ;)
Tiger Totem +25% strength, 3 first attacks
Griffin Totem +1 attack & defence strength, +25% withdrawal
Troll totem +1 attack & defence strength, +25% heal in friendly, neutral & enemy terrain, can heal while moving

I am not sure if to do gorilla totem, elephant (it can give resource, so the promotion has to be good), hill giant or even dragon (if I implement smaller dragons at some point, I can't imagine anyone adopt Abashi ;) )

I am thinking of changing griffin type to beast (I think it fits them better) and improving promotion a bit. Ideas?
It will be combined with moving subdue beast promotion to an earlier tech. Currently it is at feral bond (moved from animal mastery), but I am thinking of even earlier one - animal handling.

Unfortunatelly your world improvement is impossible to implement (well, I do not know how...). Sorry. I will check all of them and add some hammer/commerce/food bonuses. I will think of other possibilities.

Civ III graphics is unfortunatelly of no use - the format is completly different (it is 2D). I will probably use placeholder art for Mechanos :(

sounds good, and changing griffin to beasts makes sense to me. gorilla and elephant totems should definitely be in, hill giants not imho ( they are not animals :D )

...for the elephant (...mammoth) totem, perhaps rather than being for combat troops if could be added to Doviello workers to make them more industrious, or to Doviello Settlers providing a one off production & food boost upon city settlement (ie; it's skin, bones and fat provide a production boost, whilst the meat provides a nice little stockpile to bring city growth that little closer)

for the wolf - rather than give a strength boost, perhaps it should give first strikes, or improve visibility (ie; tapping into the wolf's sense of smell)

I am thinking of changing griffin type to beast (I think it fits them better) and improving promotion a bit. Ideas?
It will be combined with moving subdue beast promotion to an earlier tech. Currently it is at feral bond (moved from animal mastery), but I am thinking of even earlier one - animal handling.


I agree that a Griffon should be classified as a Beast, like Giants and other mythological creatures. Ordinary creatures should be Animals. I would also consider placing the Giant Spider in the Beast category.

The barrier to getting Subdue Beast is not the Tech but the unit type, which I believe is either a Beastmaster or a recon hero with Combat 5. I might add Druid to the list, but would not want to have it become a common promotion.

Thats too bad about the civ 3 graphics. Maybe some of the art people can be recruited from FFH2... because you never know if the mechanos civ or its units will be included somehow into vanillia FFH2 - especially if they get the chance to do artwork on steampunk type stuff (Wish I could do the artwork for a hero with a gattlin gun arm!)

I like the totem numbers - and agree that griffons, elephants and gorilla's need to be thought out on their bonus (cause I would rather make an elephant rider out of a captured elephant). what do you think about animal cages being allowed to produce animal units? (with animal handleing tech or higher)
Maybe griffons could add the flying promotion or +50% to beasts and +100% to animals or both or immune to first strikes...

Love the idea for smaller dragons... I have been promoting drakes(baby dragons) and griffons as special mounts or part of the dragon cults or certain civs. how cool would it be to have drake and griffon riders!(and other special mounts)

Too bad about the world improvement problem - adding hammers/com/ect is an acceptable compromise.

what did you think of adding the effects of biology tech to the commune with nature tech?

agreed with charleswatkins that giant spiders should be beasts instead of animals.

and I totally agree with sputnik323 about being able to build farms without irrigation with a suitable tech. I didn't think that was really needed at first, but now that I've thought about it for a while I gotta say I love the idea.

The barrier to getting Subdue Beast is not the Tech but the unit type, which I believe is either a Beastmaster or a recon hero with Combat 5. I might add Druid to the list, but would not want to have it become a common promotion.

Not any more. In 0.34 the requirement is combat 3, subdue animal & animal mastery. Only recon units can get it, but no more hero requirement.
I decided to keep it at feral bond for now, we will see if it is not too late.

I changed griffins & giant spiders to beast type. Small spiders are still animals.



I added some more totems:
Spider: +1 posion strength, 2 first strikes, 20% withdrawal rate
Gorilla: double movement in all types of forest & jungle, 25% extra experience from combat, 50% cheaper upgrades
Elephant: causes fear, revolt protection (will see how this works)
Mammoth: causes fear, revolt protection, 25% cold resistance

Changed:
Wolf - 25% withdrawal rate, +1 xp from combat
Griffin - +1 attack/defence strength, 15% withdrawal rate, blitz

what did you think of adding the effects of biology tech to the commune with nature tech?
Done :)

I want the promotions to be quite rare. Doviello already get many animals (free subdue + worldspell) and I do not want other civs get more. Well, maybe a bit to allow Grant Menagerie.

Nice way to work the totem changes, i think you have balanced them well... I like them! You are right, the totem promotions should be quite rare except for doviello.
Thanks for adding biology back!
After the next version is out, people will probably be able to generate more ideas based on gameplay... especially with the mechanos.

I had a question, is the new version of orbi going to keep the FFH2 version of markets or the .13 version of orbi? I like the ffh2 market in cases where you do not found religions because of the early gold increase helps with expansion... but I wouldn't know how that balances with monuments giving gold... Maybe a smaller gold and smaller commerice percent could balance the 2. ... just a thought.

this new version sounds really good already :D are mammoth in base ffh2 or did you add them in orbi? I don't think I've ever seen one in 0.33 and 0.34 ( if I remember the lore compendium correctly, they were axed and you added them back, correct? )

edit: btw... 0.34 patch H incoming :D

Gekko;7367474']btw... 0.34 patch H incoming :D

hopefully that means orbi .14 incoming! :crazyeye:

Edit: looks like patch h isnt comming out as soon as hoped :(

Hi Ahwaric, I am a big fan of your modmod and will happily await for your new version.

I really enjoy your implementation of the totem animal promotions. Given the added strategic value, it would be interesting to have animals and beasts spawn throughout all the game, as I think (and correct me if I'm wrong) that once barbarian cities/units reach a certain level, animals stop spawning. Also, according to Xienwolf's manual, only bears and lions produce dens, and even then only when they are 4 tiles away from any improvement. Perhaps it would be interesting to allow as a selectable option other animals/beasts produce dens? And reduce the distance requirements to 3? I don't think everyone would enjoy such changes, but including them as a selectable option might please animal lovers out there.

In a Doviello thread, someone suggested allowing them to build shamans shapeshifting abilities, and getting stronger forms depending on their tier. E.g. Adepts could change to wolf packs or mages to polar bears (if they're allowed to have mages at all). Though this seems fun, it chips the "negative uniqueness" of the Doviello, as they did not get magic users at all. Perhaps this may be countered by limiting shamans to their shapeshifting abilites and to a few spell spheres (Body, Chaos, Earth, Spirit, Nature). Given the fact that they are wild by nature and the toll the transformation takes on the mind, shapeshifted shamans might start with enraged, making them stronger than normal animals, but having a possibility of going native while in animal form (enraged removed when returning to human form).

Regards.

shapeshifting would be great but I think Ahwaric has it scheduled for a future release or something ;)

I second the request for more kinds of animal dens though :)

I am glad you like the totems :)
I will try to enable some types of improvements in doviello lands spawn animals (forester & hunters camp come in mind). But have not yet looked into it, so I am not sure what will be possible. Currently, I think that wolf prides spawn wolves, so are some kind of mobile den.
I have checked the den creating requirements and the only improvement they check is the same type. I think the current bear den density is enough :)
The real limiting factor in lion den creating is that it requires lion pride, not just a lion. And there is just 10% to upgrade lion or wolf from combat. I changed that and both lions and wolves have now 35% convert chance. Baby spiders have a bit better chance, too.

Last time I checked Doviello could build spellcasters, and I do not plan to change that. I like Limited shapeshifting idea, but as I said, limited. Without creating a new animal unit, but preserving unit and it's combat type (they are not real animals after all), just adding some bonuses and changing unit looks. That should also limit the unit a bit, i.e. lower spell damage. I thought of disabling spellcasting at all, but it may be too much and what is more important, I think it requires a lot of python checks. Enraged might be a good idea, too.

I will think on it and maybe include a basic version in 0.14, but my priority is to release it as soon as possible, preferably today.

Edit: what do you think of adding Griffin nests?

Edit: what do you think of adding Griffin nests?

I think all the animals and beasts should have homes that spawn them. Giant caves, Griffin nests, Gorrilla huts, and even Dragon lairs(that spawns drakes, not full grown dragons) - then turn on a limiter to when they begin spawning by turn -based on gamespeed (so you dont have a land full of huge badies making your scouts wet themselves)

): I'm unable to download it ... it said that "There were no available download servers." all the time ... (trying 3rd day)

): I'm unable to download it ... it said that "There were no available download servers." all the time ... (trying 3rd day)

are you talking about the old .13 version? I just tried and can download all the necessary files. .13, patch c, and the flames fix.

version .13 is for .33 FFH2 ... the version for .34 FFH2 hasn't been released yet. although Im sure it will be soon, especially if patch H of FFH is done soon.

version .13 is for .33 FFH2 ... the version for .34 FFH2 hasn't been released yet. although Im sure it will be soon, especially if patch H of FFH is done soon.

I decided not to wait for patch h. You can get Orbis 0.14 here (http://files.filefront.com/OrbisSetup014exe/;12130459;/fileinfo.html).

Hope you like it :)

I managed to add shapechanging to doviello. Shamans start with ability to transform to wolf (at least visually - +1 strenght, +1 movement, lower spell damage, much slower node building). When upgraded to mages, they can also change to bears (+2 strength, same negatives as wolf). This is only a basic version, all feedback welcomed.

awesome, thanx a lot Ahwaric. the next FFH2 game I'll play will definitely be Orbi :D

first bug spotted: the duskwood graphics are missing, replaced by the infamous "red blob of death" :D

Note that the installer default is to install to the Fall Further 042 folder. You need to change that to Orbis 014.

@gekko hmm.. I see duskwood... is the improvement red blob? or just duskwood?

Note that the installer default is to install to the Fall Further 042 folder. You need to change that to Orbis 014.

Unfortunatelly, looks like the installer remembers last directory used during installation. As I am using slightly modified Vehem's script, it points to FF 42 if you have installed it. Nothing I can do on this side, I am afraid (triple-checked the script, there is nothing from FF left). Be aware when FF 043 comes out, as it might point to Orbis. I will update installation instructions in the first post. Thanks for the info!

Gekko;7374636']first bug spotted: the duskwood graphics are missing, replaced by the infamous "red blob of death" :D

@gekko hmm.. I see duskwood... is the improvement red blob? or just duskwood?

The red blob problem only applies to civilopedia. The actuall resource uses L-system and it points to right folder, so it looks ok. I will fix pedia problem in patch a.

Are the doviello walls supposed to be purple spikes? - thats what shows up.

Got in about 120 turns with the Svarts last night with no problems. Looking forward to the Mechanos next time.

Can't wait to check out the new version. Too much studying in my near future I'm afraid. Probably be a couple days. :(

repeats to himself... "grades before games, grades before games" :D

it seems like Lanun war tortoises require ivory while war elephants don't, is this intended?

Are the doviello walls supposed to be purple spikes? - thats what shows up.

Spikes - yes, purple - no. Woody texture is missing, will deliver it with patch a.

Gekko;7377917']it seems like Lanun war tortoises require ivory while war elephants don't, is this intended?

Nope, quite the opposite :blush:. That is the downside of making changes in excel, not on the xml file itself. I changed column KB instead of KC. Will change it in patch a.


repeats to himself... "grades before games, grades before games" :D

Exactly my thoughts. I kept repeating "thesis need to be finished first" this summer (it worked... after some time) and "you got to write that article finally" this week. You got 0.14 yesterday. Guess what happened... ;)

Bug: May or may not be specific to Orbi. A Mutated unit got Enraged. After attacking, the Enraged promotion was removed. However, from that point on, spells no longer appeared in the list of actions available for any unit. Adepts could still learn spells, but there was no way to use them. Other kinds of actions stayed and worked properly.

Bug: May or may not be specific to Orbi. A Mutated unit got Enraged. After attacking, the Enraged promotion was removed. However, from that point on, spells no longer appeared in the list of actions available for any unit. Adepts could still learn spells, but there was no way to use them. Other kinds of actions stayed and worked properly.

How long did this situation last? Was there a notification in the lower right of screen? I am just wondering if it could be the worldspell which blocked spellcasting.

How long did this situation last? Was there a notification in the lower right of screen? I am just wondering if it could be the worldspell which blocked spellcasting.

You have solved it, Sherlock. The Amurites had cast Arcane Lacuna. (I did not realize their Worldspell had changed.)

Great updates. I'm having my prospector fix. I may have spotted a bug. Keelyn, my restless neighbor, built strange mechanical-looking contraptions on top of her mana sources. Although I'm not completely sure, I presume this is be the way Mechanos use Mana (given their angel-aversion). If this is correct it may be necessary to disable such ability from adepts other than the ones Mechanos can build.
Regards.

Edit: Two more:
1. Regeneration spell has degenerated. Accessing the Body II sphere with vampires does not allow me to cast it. I can cast all other spells correctly though. A quick review shows me that the spell does not appear listed in the civilopedia nor does it appear listed when reading the description for Body II in the civilopedia either.

2. Building mines with calabim workers in tiles with ancient forest does not clear the forest, although it does clear them if building a farm or cottage.

Edit 2:
Millers and prospectors are getting the crazed promotion after not discovering a resource. Too much pressure drives them crazy?

You have solved it, Sherlock.
Actually it's MARnok. M-a-r... oh nevermind.

It would be nice if the chances for millers and prospectors to find resources were greater. In a multi game, my friend had 3 millers working to find a resource on different tiles around his whole city for 50 turns and never found one... although he lost a ton of millers due to crazed and barbarian spawns. - a ton of production was lost to never find anything.

Also the corp that consumes fish, crab, ect. - would be cool to add a workboat that found naval resources, and could plant kelp.

So far... having tons of fun with orbi - no CTD's

Keelyn, my restless neighbor, built strange mechanical-looking contraptions on top of her mana sources. It may be necessary to disable such ability from adepts other than the ones Mechanos can build

You are right that these contraptions are mechanos replacement for mana nodes. The problem is, I have never enabled it to any unit except mechanos adeptos & tech priest, but I have seen it Sheaim lands, too. I suspect foul event at play, but am not sure.


1. Regeneration spell has degenerated.
Added back :blush:

Building mines with calabim workers in tiles with ancient forest does not clear the forest, although it does clear them if building a farm or cottage.
That is correct. Mines in Orbi do not remove forests, jungles & ancient forests, but initially produce one hammer less.

Millers and prospectors are getting the crazed promotion after not discovering a resource. Too much pressure drives them crazy?

It would be nice if the chances for millers and prospectors to find resources were greater. In a multi game, my friend had 3 millers working to find a resource on different tiles around his whole city for 50 turns and never found one...
The chances for both prospecting & breeding are
5% big bad monster (as in lair exploring)
35% special bad (randomly chosen from a list: crazed, demonic possesion, diseased, poisoned, crazed cannibal, monsters dependant on terrain(lich, minotaur, wolf rider, griffon, treant, vines, lich, minotaur))
30% nothing
20% some gold
10% resource.
Adventurer adds +10 to the result. Also, you will get nothing if there is already any resource in the plot if you should get resource.
I am afraid to increase the chances too much (you get a new resource at the point of your choice after all), but 15% to get resource and if there is already one, some gold instead of nothing, can sweeten the deal a bit. I will probably lower the adventurer effect to 5%.
As for the crazed thing, it is a big pressure - all this time alone, full of greed, in wilderness, surrounded by demons, giants, wolves... It can drive you mad ;) But I will add some possible results to make insane results less common. Ideas?

Also the corp that consumes fish, crab, ect. - would be cool to add a workboat that found naval resources, and could plant kelp.

So far... having tons of fun with orbi - no CTD's
I am not sure if I want to add any resource seeking to hansa - they are trade company, already have special ability (trade mission for some gold). Also from the all sea resources they use only fish.
Sea resources are also quite common and not diverse enough - just fish, crab, calm (pearls if you are lanun), all over the coast.
As fot the kelp planting - I am thinking of it for a long time, now I have a vote to go for it :)
Glad Orbi is stable - that was one of the goals of rebuilding it from scratch, to check for possible bugs.

I think I collected enough for one patch, I will post it later today (want to change some animal spawning rates first and get your opinion on proposed changes...)

Cool. I imagined prospecting might have been given a lair-type mechanism. With the risk of being redundant, maybe adding the chance of discovering a hidden lair would be another possible, but unlikely, result.
If the adventurer promotion increases the possibility of a good result, does that mean that millers and prospectors can also get it from prospecting or they also have to go dungeon hunting. If that is the case, there are usually not many (if any) dungeons left by the time I can found the guilds, so it would be very unlikely that they should get that promotion.
I think 10% is a good chance for finding resources. More might be just too much.
I got the demonic possession event for another unit, exploring a dungeon, and it changed its handsome looks to an infernal UU, it may be interesting if it did the same to millers and prospectors. Mmhh, bread from the Miller from Hell... tastes like despair.

WOW! Ahwaric! A completely updated version. Shame I'm gonna have to wait 8 weeks to try it :(

Look forward to seeing how this develops! :)

Al

10% chance for resource finding does seem like a balanced ammount. Especially because I think you gain access to corporations earlier in the game than before. Although it seems like less than 10% while playing sometimes... rotten luck! :p - To make the crazed promotion have less impact, the loyalty promotion could be added as a rare good result. BTW how do corporate units get the adventurer promotion (never got it before)? do they have to search dungeons or is there another way?

The Doviello now have a special flavor that makes them a lot of fun in the begining of the game - and scary when you are on their bad side. - which is how I think it should be. have you thought about giving their mounted line totems?

Ive also been messing around with the mechanos civ, so far they seem interesting... but I haven't done too much with them yet.

Im also wondering what you are planning for future versions... your ideas with espionage and thieves guild seem fun. Do you have ideas for a corporate unit for the thieves guild?
Im also wondering if you looked into trying to put in jeckels fort mod?
Parts of snarko's mod, the AI deplomacy would also be a good addition to orbi.

Tried this mod for the first time the other day and have to say its great! The additional buildings and other extras make playing builder style so much more fun. I can live without ranged combat though, I personally think it doesn't add anything to the gameplay and just adds additional micromanagement which is not good in multiplayer. I have also adjusted a few other things for multiplayer, like resetting settlers and workers to their normal costs in Civ IV and speeding up tech research and buildings in the GameSpeedInfo.xml - that's something I don't like about FFH, it concentrates on single player epic games.
Anyway, my real concern is that I'm getting a lot of OOS issues with Orbis014, every multiplayer game so far has to be ceased due to OOS issues somewhere between turn 100-200. In FFH 0.34 we're getting an OOS once every 20 games or so. What additional features are the usual suspects here? And is there an easy way to disable ranged combat? I love almost everything else in Orbis 014 though and think a lot of the changes make FFH even better.

Adventurer is avarded for bigbad and big good results. There is no big good chance in prospecting & breeding, so only 5% chance for bigbad counts. Or rather it would if I did not forgot to enable it. It is fixed in patch a.
Great news about doviello :) I have yet to see their units with totems, but I did not play that much. And expanded dens I added in 14a should help that too.
I thought of the mounted line, even disciple in fact. I think it fits melee better, and melee is more in Doviello theme, but I do not say no.

Mechanos are not really finished, but certainly playable, both spell & hero should be ok. But I am seeking ideas for expanding and balancing them.

I have checked the jeckel's forts and like the idea, just try to find a way to implement it (and need some time to actually do that).

@Bulbhead
The OOS is is bad. I did not realize that it is so much different in Orbi than in unmodded FfH. I mostly tweaked things, there is no SDK and only limited python additions. So far I suspect mostly some guilds (guild of the nine, stewards, circle of eight and resource finding), maybe ranged combat too (but it is an option from Final frontier so should be ok). But I need OOS logs to really find out. So, if anyone can provide them I will be glad to check. I do not play LAN & internet games thet much.

Ranged combat is hard to disable, you need to manually edit CIV4UnitInfos.xml and for example set airrange to 0. But Orbi is balanced taking ranged comabt into account and i.e. siege engines with just disabled ranged combat are useless. I also like it - it is great to soften hard enemy & attack great stacks.