Alright, last time you guys helped me with one too (I won a conquest victory eventually), so I'm asking for help a bit earlier in this game.

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/1153/totmapuu8.png

Here's the island. As you can see, it's entirely grassland. Nearly all flat too, just a few hills.

Now, what to do with this island? Should I run a SE (lots of space for farms, quite a bit of food) or a CE? (tons and tons of grasslands to cottage)? What wonder should I go for? Great Lighthouse? Colossus? Pyramids?

Where should I put my cities? :confused:

I made a small dot map...

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/2149/zotmaprm5.png

(btw, there are no resources cut off from the picture or anything, and I finished researching bronze working to find no copper)

I'm thinking Moai Statues for city red or blue? Which would be better?

London seems like an obvious GP farm...are pink and orange okay with no food resources?

The island is very weird. Only one seafood resource?

I'm kind of lost, so I'd like your help! :)

P.S. Map is Tectonics Islands, so the other AIs probably have pretty lousy starts too, but most likely better then this.

P.P.S. If you want to play this from the start, I can attach the 4000 BC save

Of course I want to play it :p.

I'd list mids a no-go here. You might be able to get them but non-industrious w/o stone on mostly flatlands :(. It'd cost too much IMO and you might miss them regardless.

I'd settle the gems early for some :) and when I try it i'll probably mostly cottage - this is the kind of game where I like going stonehenge and using it for a theology bulb. With the gems it may be possible to oracle theology directly though - and the AP hammers could wind up pretty helpful. The happiness definitely will. Monarchy is next, currency/CoL are less of a priority because your economy isn't going to crash with a bunch of flatlands and commerce resources - I'd probably go calendar after monarchy.

From there just work towards optics/astro, unless border pop lets you attack with galleys - in that case you may want to alter tech path for construction and crush your neighbor (put FP there).

Edit: The island is so small you can ignore all non-economy techs - You can remove both land barbs and galleys with warriors exclusively before you ever see a single one - and I advise doing so.

Just cram in as many cities as you can possibly get space for and get great lighthouse / a religion / university of sankore / spinal minaret / apostolic palace./ collosus.. There should be space for 6 more cities. (not sure how you are going to build all the wonders without any hammers though).

I'd put the pink city 1 NW for 2 more land and less overlap. You're obviously going to have some significant production problems.

Moai Statues in the Blue City if you plan on that city working the overlap between that and pink. Otherwise, put it in the Red.

London is a good GP farm location. But cottage mostly everything, mine the hills and Iron if it pops on a grassland.

Also, that start isn't too bad (Albeit a bit small) compared to what I've gotten. 98% of the island was Jungle... It sucked early game, but cottage the heck out of it and run US.

Moai statues should go in the city on the tip of the land tounge imo... that city will work almost only water titles...

Just cram in as many cities as you can possibly get space for and get great lighthouse / a religion / university of sankore / spinal minaret / apostolic palace./ collosus.. There should be space for 6 more cities. (not sure how you are going to build all the wonders without any hammers though).

The AI likely has lands like this too (He makes island maps like this...I played one earlier when he was egypt). The AI often is isolated also and techs comically poorly even on emperor on this kind of map when it is. Better yet, the AI doesn't overflow whip hammers into wonders or plan for the limitations of this kind of map, which means if you plan even a little bit you can take another island or two in the renaissance. If you take 2 though...get divine right for Versailles. You don't want to pay colonial maintenance on 5 cities, it hurts badly. FP and Versailles make other continents viable sooner than communism would allow. IMO save prophets for bulbing - shrines won't be worth a great deal on this kind of map anyway.

On this map, Prophets should be settled, not bulbed. ;)

As should Engineers, except in the case of rushing wonders.

Personally I'd rather bulb the (very) few prophets I get for some techs I can make use of before the AI, later trade them for some backfill, and use the early advantage to take OTHER people's settled prophets.

Good tips everyone.

Now, what victory? I'm thinking I should try for culture. With cottages helping up the slider, and GA's being farmed in London, it should be kind of easy.

I don't think I have enough production for space race, domination or conquest...

Move orange city 1S, pink city 1W (maybe even 1SW) to gain riverside access and minimize overlap. Might even want to put red city 1E (on the sugar) -- you have happiness out the wazoo but are very health-poor, so it's important to give each city fresh water access. (Very odd that you have only one seafood resource...)

Only two hills on the whole island?? I predict a lot of whipping in your future. :mischief:

grab the gem like ASAP
your capital is like a great combo commerce and GP farm ( 2 sugars, corn and clam...yummy)


imo, try to do astronomy slingshot
calendar, writing, compas, machinery, optic
lightbulb astronomy with a GS (+few turns research)

DO NOT research meditation nor theology
because it will open path to philosophy and paper, which you dont want

i dont know what difficulty is this?
i mean in monarch and below, you could easily found many religions which you need to make cathedrals (so you dont need the early astronomy)

too bad you didnt chose elizabeth

Culture should be doable, but you really miss production for early wonders. With guilds and caste, workshops will be able to do the trick, though.

What's wrong with this start? You have so many grasslands and decent food.

What's wrong with this start? You have so many grasslands and decent food.

No production...

Good tips everyone.

Now, what victory? I'm thinking I should try for culture. With cottages helping up the slider, and GA's being farmed in London, it should be kind of easy.

I don't think I have enough production for space race, domination or conquest...

If you post the save, I'll absolutely go for domination or conquest ;).

No production...

Slavery. Unless you're worried about wonders or some nonsense like that.

Pottery is an immediate priority, you need to get those cottages up and growing quickly. Granaries are also important, although essentially every tile you'll be working has a food surplus health will quickly become an issue and 2f tiles still take forever to grow once you have larger cities.

Calendar is more distant but also an important tech with 5 tiles of resources right there. I suggest teching towards astronomy asap. Colossus would be great if you weren't isolated but you need astronomy, which obsoletes the colossus and you'll need every hammer you can muster. Be prepared to crack the whip often to get libraries and such up.

Slavery. Unless you're worried about wonders or some nonsense like that.

Given his civ, I'm thinking draft, TBH. Although I suppose you could use some slaving to get the boats ready. Alternatively, one city (like the capitol) can just crank out a decent number (6) of galleons while teching to rifling. Maybe even some frigates if things go well.

Either way, I can imagine 18 drafted redcoats doing fairly well against most things the AI can put out - remember that without pure hammers the AI will struggle with production also - much more so than they player.

like vicawoo has already said, whip
with those foods and hereditary rule, it would be so easy to build city

if you want some early wonders, you could beeline MC fast (since you dont need alphabet with that map)
whip and build a forge, wait few turns and wait for a GE to pop out

If you post the save, I'll absolutely go for domination or conquest ;).

I'd upload it before I go to bed, so you'll have it for the weekend. ;)

Anyway, why would I want to beeline Astronomy? There'll probably be no land to colonize, so...

I'd upload it before I go to bed, so you'll have it for the weekend. ;)

Anyway, why would I want to beeline Astronomy? There'll probably be no land to colonize, so...

Astronomy is a very powerful tech on most maps - you get intercontinental trade routes (which, if you DO get glh, can be pretty strong!) and the ability to build observatories.

This can often vault a player into a further tech lead, such as privateers vs pre-frigate AIs. That's ugly. Especially on this kind of map.

You need to jam maximum cities in. With only 2 health resources pre-guilds and only one extra post guilds health will be an issue. Geat lighthouse should be top priority. You can worry about rexing afterwards. a few warriors to fog bust then TGL. Get a workboat out there to scount around for little islands. You can tell if they are nearby, by the number of commerce. Anything that has 2 commerce is coastal and thus reachable by galley.
Beelinging astronomy will let you grab any islands out there. there is usually a couple landmasses that can support 2-3 cities.

looks interesting, looks fun, can't wait to see that save.

Noob Question: Why not move Pink 1 NW? That will reduce overlap, allow you to get the forest (for 1 :hammers:) and allow Pink to be a better Maoi statue city (if you can use the forest until just when you need it, and then chop it... and then whip). Voila!! Your production problem solved!

Of course, then you will miss the central grassland, but who cares? As is, you will miss out on a forest AND a grassland, and then you will have much smaller cities than you need to have...

Noob Question: Why not move Pink 1 NW? That will reduce overlap, allow you to get the forest (for 1 :hammers:) and allow Pink to be a better Maoi statue city (if you can use the forest until just when you need it, and then chop it... and then whip). Voila!! Your production problem solved!

Of course, then you will miss the central grassland, but who cares? As is, you will miss out on a forest AND a grassland, and then you will have much smaller cities than you need to have...

Because I would like to have six cities, for Oxford/Globe. :)

Also, save.

If you settle on the gems you get space for one more city(7 total), in adition the red city should prolly go one e(on top of the sugar...).

You're not isolated... look at the NW corner of the island

You're not isolated... look at the NW corner of the island

I played a few more turns and found

Qin Shi Huang. Or as I like to call him, Quincy Hang. I had to quit then and decide what to do next.

I'm in the mid 1800's...I'll post the summary in spoilers a bit later. I didn't worldbuilder this to emperor/epic - it's normal speed but what difficulty? The AI doesn't seem like it knows how to tech on maps like this.

Part 1 - 4000 BC to 50 AD

I'm going to admit that I've copied a lot of DaveMCW advice lately as I seem to prefer cottages to extra specialist micro. Among his tidbits is to explore along the coast. I pretended I didn't know the island and went warrior first, scouting along the coast with the starting one after settling in place. I popped sailing from a hut which was very cool. Went for BW then mysticism/agriculture. Also:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/togepiengland/3400bcanothercoastalsosailingfromhu.jpg

That's coast over there. There's another island. We'd soon find ourselves NOT isolated.

I decided to go cottages this game. This would, of course, make me hammer poor until US. For this reason, I decided to bulb theology for the AP. The method of doing this is the same as my APG games:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/togepiengland/2320SH0000.jpg

Settled the gem city early and emphasized iron working to use them - good for both :) and massive food-neutral commerce. Also started to found and cottage other cities:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/togepiengland/1240bc0000.jpg

Monarchy is the top tech for CE:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/togepiengland/600bcmonarchy0000.jpg

And here we are at 475 BC: A prophet to bulb theology. If I'd have known oracle was going late for SURE (probably should have known) I'd have oracled theo directly. Oh well...henge isn't bad.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/togepiengland/475bulbtheology0000.jpg

And the empire at 50 AD:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/togepiengland/50adempire0000.jpg

Pretty standard CE fare - after theo went for calendar to hook up the multiple resources it offers for :) and commerce. Then went for currency/col/CS as you can see here. The tree:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/togepiengland/50adtech0000.jpg

Ah yes, as you can probably guess, Willem is on that island too. We're far from isolated although the AI is so tech poor it doesn't have alphabet yet so I haven't traded anything.

Part II - 50 AD to 1685 AD



Grabbed the AP in 475 AD, which is usually possible on emperor+ as long as you get theo first and the AI sour-grapes the tech.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/togepiengland/475adAP0000.jpg

I'm teching toward lib pretty well and even accidentally found taoeism:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/togepiengland/700adaccidentaltaoism0000.jpg

Bureaucracy capitol:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/togepiengland/1080capitol0000.jpg

and the lib tech race:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/togepiengland/1080techs0000.jpg

Er...ok I'm in excellent shape. I will invade with galleys once I get my bearings to do so.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/togepiengland/1210MTfromLib0000.jpg

There are basically 4 renaissance units that can beat down earlier stuff pretty easily: Cannons, Rifles, Grenadiers, and Cuirassers. I chose the last of those with my lib tech (MT) as they're easy to get quickly.

And I go after Willem:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/togepiengland/1260ADDoWWillem0000.jpg

I take 2 cities and take peace - got a few unlucky breaks in the war and whatnot, so I'm massing up more horsie death. Back at it:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/togepiengland/15452ndwarwillem0000.jpg

In 1615 AD Qin decides to backstab me and take a weakly defended border city. Well Qin, that's ok. I'll have it and your head soon.

Willem is finished off in 1630. His capitol:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/togepiengland/1630willemdeadcapitol0000.jpg

In 1685 The war is over. Their island is mine now, and they're off the map...idiots.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/togepiengland/1685waroverenemylands0000.jpg

It's hard to imagine that anything could be better than covering every single tile of this island with cottages, except for the gems, pig, corn, one dye, one sugar, and enough farms to grow/whip your cities. (Which will be paved over with cottages once your cities are grown)

Don't bother with specialists, except to consume your natural food surplus. Don't waste your terrain by building farms to support extra specialists! London should run 5-7 specialists, but only after reaching full size. Similarly, pig city should run 3, and maybe 1-2 in the others.

Don't worry about the lack of production. Just try to have universal suffrage before you have any substantial need for hammers. :) Mines are okay if you really need some early production, but I would think they're better as cottages in the long run.

As the others have suggested, you need to settle your great people -- that effectively expands your civ beyond what the terrain allows. The only exceptions I can imagine would be to make an academy, or to rush a wonder that would be really, really helpful. (I'm having difficulty imagining what wonder would be really, really helpful, though) I can't imagine how bulbing could help at all -- that poster suggested trading to backfill techs, but that's kind of hard when you don't know anyone!

The 5 cities you suggested aren't enough. Not only do you not claim your entire island, but you will be limited by your population. You really do need to fit 6 cities into your island, if for no other reason than to work 20% more cottages for most of the game. And you need 6 for your national wonders too.

Settling 7 cities by putting one on the gems seems somewhat extreme; it might be better in the long run, but it seems wasteful to give up what is effectively a turn-1 town. Fortunately you can settle 7 cities without putting one on any resource -- it's quite probably worth doing so, although I admit I would be hesitant. (This feat is achieved by placing one city 3 tiles West of the capital. The placement of the rest should be clear)

Your biggest priorities are to grow big, fast, so you can work more cottages. :) After getting iron working, worker techs, and maybe writing, I would beeline Monarchy, Mathematics, and then Calendar. Monarchy to grow big, Mathematics for healthiness, then Calendar to get your other resources. (I'm assuming the happiness cap will be the limiting factor before the healthiness one will be)

After that -- my inclination is to aim for compass (harbors!), then optics to meet people, and finally astronomy for trading (money and happiness and healthiness! Oh my!) and observatories. An alternative tech path might be to beeline, in some order, to printing press, liberalism, and democracy, to maximize the power of your cottages.

-----------------------------------------

And now for something completely different.

It strikes me that a cultural victory might be feasible. London can serve as an artist farm, and there's plenty of terrain to cottage up for your second and third culture city. You might not even need to bother with more than 3 cities, although they still might be useful to help with research.

-----------------------------------------

As a final comment, it saddens me that your only units are a two warriors and a settler. :( Your capital is sorely hurting from the fact it doesn't have three mines, and a farm on that corn would have helped too. And your second city will be very bad without a worker to improve it.

The rest of my stuff even though the game isn't technically over. I don't need more screen shots after this:

I traded for maps, switched into democracy civics + free market/free speech/free religion.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/togepiengland/1824rushbuycavalry0000.jpg

Later on I just rush buy a ton of cavalry/galleon/frigate/sotl as you can see above.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/togepiengland/1840DoWthevassalcluster0000.jpg

I can remake stacks like that every 10 turns or so via rush buy. I'm going to finish off domination in a bit - but I don't think you need an update really for that - this game is over :p.

Fun map as usual, Togepi...the island maps are just silly but fun to play sometimes!

That Tectonics map script is really weird. I started a game once where three AIs and myself all started within 5 tiles of one another on an island near the south pole, and there were just vast expanses of ocean (and I had it set on "Earth-like"). Resource clusters are also incredible. Your write up was still good, TheMeInTeam, so thanks for sharing it.

Toyed around with the map for a bit...

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/4616/civ4screenshot0015yj9.th.jpg (http://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0015yj9.jpg)

I managed to get both the Great Lighthouse and the Collosus up in my game. Would definitely recommend going after them on this kind of map. I also got a lucky draw from the great people randomizer, spawning me a great engineer. I used him on the city shown above to get the Moai Statues up early. (it was built quite a bit before the picture was taken. Unfortunately the city has had to go through a phase of slow growth before it could get to it's current size)

Does anyone know why this city doesn't have any trade routes to foreign cities? My capital has trade routes to Chinese and English cities all over the place. What is this city missing...? I don't get it. Harbor? Is it that the AI's haven't discovered this city (very unlikely)? My other (non-capital) cities are also suffering from this deficit.

@Monsterzuma, you realize that after all this time, Moai is still only giving +3 hammers? You'd be better off settling the engineer. ;)

Hmmm; it's a matter of short-term vs. long-term investment. Frankly I find myself absolutely not agreeing with your assesment that +3 hammers early beats tons of hammers later on. What would I do with the 3 hammers, build me a library...? I can get a whole army of cavalry out if I just wait a bit for the city to grow. Given that the rest of my empire is largely hammer starved, having a second city with decent production capabilities on line will decide the difference between long dragged out war and an efficient blitzkrieg.

Thought some more on the issue....

I take it the plan you're advocating is to settle the GE early, then build the Moai Statues manually. Ultimately you'd end up with a hammer situation +3 above what it maximally is in my game. The question is wether building the Moai's is worth waiting for at 7 hammers/turn. I'll have to run some tests in game to see how it pans out. In any case, thanks for the input.

On an entirely different note, does anyone know why the city isn't trading with any foreign cities? Is it that I don't have enough of their cities explored or something?