View Full Version : great wall?


Gwynnja
Jul 12, 2008, 08:55 AM
So I figured that without any real form of diplomacy I'd just build the great wall and rex until i ran out of room. Everything was going just fine but eventually my neighbors decided to stop standing in awe of my great wall and dowed me. what gives? does the wall become obsolete with a certain tech?

Caluin
Jul 12, 2008, 09:09 AM
Yes. It'd be OP otherwise.

Think it's Invention that obsoletes it, which is a relatively early tech. Fourth or fifth tier.

I've found that in Deity games, by the time you've finished the Great Wall, an AI has already decided to bee-line to Invention and is only turns away from making it obsolete. Better to just build an army and prepare for the inevitable DoW.

bonafide11
Jul 12, 2008, 10:51 AM
Other than the World Bank, I have yet to build a single wonder in Civ Rev. :)

Widowmaker313
Jul 12, 2008, 10:04 PM
WHAT?! You must be a domination N00B! =D I have built nearly all.

Wavebird99
Jul 13, 2008, 12:48 AM
I built all of them when I went for a cultural victory with the Romans.

tonycz
Jul 14, 2008, 02:38 AM
Roman kick ass. Half price wonders is simply too good an advantage to be true. Some of them are amazing. Double science in a city. Double your economy. Double culture. + 50% pop in that city. A nuclear weapon. Seriously, some of this stuff just can't be ignored.

slugster
Jul 14, 2008, 06:45 AM
The Great Wall is too expensive to be worth its time. I would rate it among the worst wonders in the game.

Maybe we should have a poll on worst/best wonders? I'm personally a sucker for Hanging Gardens. It is a little risky since the AI tend to favor it as well. But when you manage to time it with an early pop booming city you can get to 15 in pop very early. Thats nearly a game winner on any difficulty.

TooTrickyFoU07
Jul 16, 2008, 02:16 AM
Its weird though. They say your Wonder does not get obsolete when you reasearch the obsolete tech yourself, yet the AI still attacks you some turns after the Great Wall is built. Btw, don't build the Great Wall on team battle, an oppenent did it and it was the stupidest thing I've seen yet.

Mcswifty
Jul 16, 2008, 08:42 AM
Just for the record, it's Engineering that Obsoletes Great Wall not invention.

kingoftroy33
Jul 16, 2008, 09:42 AM
Great Wall is a great wonder if you are playing on a lower level. The other civs gain technology very slowly on Chieftain and Warlord, but even on Warlord it may not be worth it. As others have already said, engineering obsoletes the Great Wall, and engineering is a fairly early technology. Unless you are playing on Chieftain, don't waste your time on the Great Wall. By the time you build it, some other civ will have gotten engineering and you will have just wasted a ton of turns.

mystiqblackcat
Jul 17, 2008, 11:43 AM
I'm not really proficient yet but I played a game last night on King as Egypt and bee-lined for the great wall and got it built pretty fast. It was the first time I have built it and I found it beneficial. I got to rex without the a.i.'s dow'n me. Afterwards I went to war with my neighbor, Lincoln, and had to get peace for a few turns to get cats. He gladly took peace for nothing. By the time it was obsolete Washington and Miami were mine. That gave me 5 cities with enough room for each to have its own fat cross. I steamrolled the rest of the comps after that.

ydejin
Jul 17, 2008, 05:39 PM
Other than the World Bank, I have yet to build a single wonder in Civ Rev. :)

I haven't found many of the Ancient Wonders to be particularly useful (except for the Hanging Gardens which is instantaneous they don't tend to last long enough to justify the cost). However some of the Medieval Wonders are really powerful. For example the Trade Fair of Troyes last a long time and can have a huge impact on gold production. The East India Company is also a great, relatively long-lived medieval wonder. Leonardo's Workshop is awesome. In fact I'd say all the Medieval Wonders are very good. While I've built all the Modern Wonders at one point or another, the game is often winding down as I'm finishing them up (in particular the Internet, Hollywood, and Apollo Program tend to be afterthoughts for me as I'm finishing winning the game -- if I'm losing, I've got other things on my mind like building military units to stave off one of the other players).

bonafide11
Jul 17, 2008, 07:11 PM
Yeah I've built some more wonders now because I occasionally get a Great Builder, but I still prefer not to waste my hammers on the wonders. The Trade Fair of Troyes is probably my favorite wonder.

Rixa
Jul 18, 2008, 01:36 AM
In Chieftain Ive got im from some ruins when I was exploring fog of war. So nice bonus to get early in game, but I wouldnt build it.

I would play higher levels but I just want to get every medallion in every level thats why I play Chieft. atm.

mystiqblackcat
Jul 18, 2008, 09:17 AM
Yeah I've built some more wonders now because I occasionally get a Great Builder, but I still prefer not to waste my hammers on the wonders. The Trade Fair of Troyes is probably my favorite wonder.


After a few more games I have come to the conclusion that its not worth hammers vs. having a stronger military. I still am going to build it one game just so its in the trophy room. The only exception would be if I got a great builder and I already had the Hanging Gardens. I could see having total peace from my neighbors being very beneficial for 15, 20, or more turns.

Side note: Hey Bonafide11, your sig sounds familiar. Is that your quote or is it from some other source? Sound's like a Saul Williams lyric.

tonycz
Jul 18, 2008, 10:09 AM
The quote is from the bible - Ecclesiastes 1:9. If it has been performed in any song since then, it has been copied word for word from there.

ydejin
Jul 18, 2008, 12:16 PM
After a few more games I have come to the conclusion that its not worth hammers vs. having a stronger military. I still am going to build it one game just so its in the trophy room. The only exception would be if I got a great builder and I already had the Hanging Gardens. I could see having total peace from my neighbors being very beneficial for 15, 20, or more turns.
It doubles the gold output of a city, so combined with a Bank and we're talking 8x normal gold production. By mid to late game the Trade Fair of Troyes can easily be earning you an extra 50 to 100 Gold per turn. Over the long run you can more than makeup the units you could have built with the hammers spent on the Trade Fair by taking gold from the Trade Fair and rush building units.

Say you've got a city working 8 ocean tiles, that's 16 trade points then with a Bank and Troyes Trade Fair it's 16 x 8 = 128 gold per turn (with 64 of it earned from the Trade Fair). Try combining it with East India Company and build it in a city with a lot of Ocean tiles and you'll be earning crazy amounts of cash. Again with our 8 ocean tile example we've now got 3 trade per tile so 24 for 8 tiles or 192 gold per turn (with 96 of it earned just from the Trade Fair). You can easily get a city to work more than 8 ocean tiles, so these are actually rather conservative examples.

With a lot of wonders you need to worry about when they obsolete. But at least in my games half the time we don't even get to Globalization (the Fair's obsoleting tech) by the end of the game. The Trade Fair's doubling effect lasts for pretty close to the whole game.

mystiqblackcat
Jul 18, 2008, 03:12 PM
The quote is from the bible - Ecclesiastes 1:9. If it has been performed in any song since then, it has been copied word for word from there.

Well the artist is a preacher's son so no surprise there ;).

At Ydejin:

I was referring to the Great Wall in the quote you used, amending my previous post on it. I completely agree with the Trade Fair, great wonder for my financial city.:king:

ydejin
Jul 18, 2008, 11:31 PM
At Ydejin:

I was referring to the Great Wall in the quote you used, amending my previous post on it. I completely agree with the Trade Fair, great wonder for my financial city.:king:

Ah, that makes sense. I'm not sold on the Great Wall myself.

Peachrocks
Jul 20, 2008, 11:04 AM
I had a city giving 900 gold+ a turn with Trade fair/east india/bank/aztec modern bonus :|. Needless to say an ecomomic victory came very soon after. I had so much money I didn't know what to do with it :|

bonafide11
Jul 21, 2008, 11:11 PM
The quote is from the bible - Ecclesiastes 1:9. If it has been performed in any song since then, it has been copied word for word from there.

Yep, he's right there. :D It's a great quote, I'm not even a religious guy, but I think the quote describes the world so perfect.

Oh, and about the Great Wall, is it useless in multiplayer? I built it once in multiplayer and was unable to get peace with either civilization I was at war with. What's the deal? That makes the Great Wall worthless in multiplayer.