http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v367/amethystjewel/zoceanic.png

Doesn't look bad, does it? Well, play the game. Within 20-60 turns you WILL realize why it is so awful.

I tried it five times, trying a different strategy each time. All lost. It's not just the start that's bad either, the entire map is possibly THE worst I have EVER seen. (and I specialize in making AWFUL maps)

I never actually got to see the full world map, I just entered worldbuilder to see it. :lol:

Well, good luck. I'll post some more thoughts and details in spoilers later once some of you have tried it.

P.S. Settings are Noble/Normal.

The starting island doesn't look too bad with the clams for food and hill/forest for production. But I'm guessing the entire map is made of islands about that size, eh? :P

Are those the only three pre-Optics islands?

Are those the only three pre-Optics islands?

Open up the save. ;)

Also, it's not just the geography that is bad for the player. (although the map is very, very bad)

Open up the save. ;)

Also, it's not just the geography that is bad for the player. (although the map is very, very bad)

Rrgh. I'm really tempted to stick my nose in here now and see what's so bad... but I want to finish the game I'm already playing, I'm actually proud of my progress so far for a change.

Next game I'm gonna stick my head into this map. Let's see if I can't pull a miracle of some sort and actually -win- :P

I can't seem to open up the save. Gives me a runtime error. Although I'm still using 3.13. If you're using 3.17 I bet I'm just incompatible and that's the reason.

NintendoTogepi,

I tried loading it and it gave me a runtime error and crashed Civ. Could you try dumping it into a worldbuilder file please?

Edit: You're giving me Elizabeth on a Water start with 3x coastal resources on Noble. Not only am I sure I could win this, I'm pretty sure I could win this with only one city, without ticking OCC (meaning only two national wonders in that city.) I'd really like to give it a shot.

I'd like to try it but I don't have BtS yet... someone reveal the big secret. (I'm guessing its isolated like Nixon said)

I can't really ignore this...

NintendoTogepi,

I tried loading it and it gave me a runtime error and crashed Civ. Could you try dumping it into a worldbuilder file please?

Edit: You're giving me Elizabeth on a Water start with 3x coastal resources on Noble. Not only am I sure I could win this, I'm pretty sure I could win this with only one city, without ticking OCC (meaning only two national wonders in that city.) I'd really like to give it a shot.

Are you running 3.13? If so, try and upgrade. If not, I'll try and make it into a scenario tomorrow. (I'm pretty tired tonight)

I can't really ignore this...


ya rly...

we've just been handed a challenge gentlemen (and ladies), lets see if we can rise to the occasion.

Maybe not as hard as I first thought. I tried it for the sixth time and I did two things I never managed to do in the previous five attempts...I saved and quit to try some more tomorrow.

It'd probably be easy for you guys, but I had a lot of trouble with this as it does not play to my strengths.

Conquest victory. Fairly easily. I never even researched archery, animal husbandry or a lot of other things. Had 2 great Engineers and a Great merchant sitting around in cities at the end as well as a GG I didn't bother doing any thing with. I knew the game was in the bag from about 1000 BC, maybe earlier so i sort of fiddled about.

If you're having trouble with these isolated small landmass starts. You might want to stop creating maps with high sea levels.

CivCorpse beat me to it by a little bit. But I have pictures!

Only from liberalism on though. Domination victory. I don't want to do the write up so I'll just post some highlights:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/nintog3/1480libwinastro0000.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/nintog3/1806capitol0000.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/nintog3/1806empire0000.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/nintog3/1832ottomansscrewed0000.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/nintog3/1876invadewangkon0000.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/nintog3/1905DoWCathy0000.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/nintog3/1905tech0000.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/nintog3/1914declareonrometoo0000.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/nintog3/1918adromedeadcathyoffhermainland00.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/nintog3/1929Domination0000.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/nintog3/1929capitolfinal0000.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/nintog3/koreandeath0000.jpg

The only truly meaningful thing I did was shoot straight for metal casting (for colossus) and use triremes to blockade mehmed for basically the entire game until I attacked him. Cyrus is pretty peaceful, mehmed is a stabber. AIs get MC really late on noble so mehmed was never able to tech that once I blockaded him and removed basically all of his commerce and pop.

Used the Moai to help wonderspam - NE was the other national wonder and since I got parthenon the GP's came pretty nicely. I got a lot of wonders because nobody else really had great hammer land either.

Getting to infantry before anyone had rifles represents a pretty big tech gap - the AI isn't built for this kind of map and without bonuses it's screwed :p.

Not too challenging - with the caveat that you must take a careful early tech path and strategy to get a good jump.

In retrospect, it was probably possible to warrior or archer rush with a galley, and that would have been pretty funny. Oh well, this way was fun too.

Why in the bejesus did you make such small islands?

I went BW first while building a work boat. Grrrr@no copper on the bare hill. I then took a stab @IW. Bare hills like that in the bfc usually mean copper/iron/coal. Teched sailing while my worker built the mine. Built 3 galleys while teching whell and building the road...built whipped 6 swords....mehmed go bye bye, lost 3 swords. Built/whipped 3 more swords and attack cyrus the turn he finished his iron mine. Pilliaged it then too the northern city...built whipped 2 more swords and cyrus was dead. Built TGLH Tech was then writing/metal casting for two workshops on London's Island...then beelined to monarchy for HR after that it was optics/gunpowder/astonomy. Finished liberalism and took steel. Built privateers and choked down Seoul to POP2. Also blockaded Moscow/survyman's capital and rome. I built way to many redcoats and cannons. Once I started attacking. I took every AI city in about 40 turns total. Most of which was sea travel/marching to the next city. I never teched archery/agg/AH. I think i demanded AH as tribute because I was bored. I never built a courthouse/colseum/aquaduct/market. just a few buildings and then galleons and troops. I probably could have won much earlier with maces/muskets and cannons if I hadn't went for rifling before steel.

;7028521']Why in the bejesus did you make such small islands?

The map did, not me :D.

Anyway

My problem was Mehmed/Cyrus. I could never successfully go to war with them. TWO archers took out EIGHT AXEMEN! If only catapults could still work amphibiously...I also always ended up being way behind by the time I met Catherine. In my current (sixth :lol:) try I have rushed Mehmed with four swordsmen and with two very nice cities I should be able to win (maybe).

I will say this, it is by far the most sea heavy map I have ever seen. EVER. :O

Also, interesting how you never took Cyrus out, Meinteam. Perhaps that's where I went wrong?

Seriously i see no reason whatsoever that this city won't win the game alone on the given settings...

Are you running 3.13? If so, try and upgrade. If not, I'll try and make it into a scenario tomorrow. (I'm pretty tired tonight)

NintendoTogepi,

Yes, and I'm not going to upgrade, because my Prince Praetorian rush game is still in progress and probably still will be for a few more weeks.

done and done, was a fun little romp

i worked my magic similar to civcorpse, sailing and IW for swords, then bye bye mehmed and cyrus, after that it was just a roll to the finish line, dom victory 1947, would have been faster, but i just didnt build enough redcoats and galleons for sury, wang, cathy and jules and was slowed down by amphibious losses.

The map did, not me :D.

Anyway

My problem was Mehmed/Cyrus. I could never successfully go to war with them. TWO archers took out EIGHT AXEMEN! If only catapults could still work amphibiously...I also always ended up being way behind by the time I met Catherine. In my current (sixth :lol:) try I have rushed Mehmed with four swordsmen and with two very nice cities I should be able to win (maybe).

I will say this, it is by far the most sea heavy map I have ever seen. EVER. :O

Also, interesting how you never took Cyrus out, Meinteam. Perhaps that's where I went wrong?


Why are you using axemen when you have swords? Secondly, you shouldn't be attacking amphibiously. It's a quick walk from the tip of Mehmed's Isalnd to his capital.

Why are you using axemen when you have swords? Secondly, you shouldn't be attacking amphibiously. It's a quick walk from the tip of Mehmed's Isalnd to his capital.

Because they were using mostly Melee units in my previous attempts, so axemen did more work. And I had to attack amphibiously, Mehmed and Cyrus had units on every tile. And if they didn't, when I landed my units, they attacked them and weakened them really badly.

Anyway, you guys have to keep in mind I am not a warmonger, and while Noble is probably VERY easy for you guys, it's my normal difficulty. :P

What settings were used to make this insane map?!

What settings were used to make this insane map?!

Tectonics, High Sea Level, Islands, Wet Climate

It makes maps like this routinely, but this is by far the worst (most water filled) I have ever seen.

Financial leader on a water map who starts with Fishing and a bunch of sea food nearby? What's there not to like?

Financial wasn't very important. I missed hanging gardens, unfortunately.

I managed to win this one by Conquest in 1862AD, I think - thank you for posting this game, hadn't previously seen the Conquest movie :)

As soon as it became apparent that I had 2 neighbours within sane distance and an unforested hill nearby, which was likely to conceal a resource, I went after them with sharp objects ASAP.

Mehmed was asked nicely to vacate his city first. Cyrus took a while longer as I didn't bring enough troops to empty his capital; instead I razed his second city (twice) and stopped him from hooking up the iron by taking Ceasefire instead of Peace every time. (I'm really not that good at early wars/rushing; I either bring too few units and get slaughtered or build up a massive force and find my enemies are at Longbows...)

After the initial islands were taken, the next task was Optics (find the other civs, who I guessed were in the same situation given the scenario description), then Astronomy, then teched/bulbed my way up to MilSci and Grenadiers.

After that everyone kind of fell over. Wang Kon (who built GLH and the AP, as well as founding almost every religion) gave up once I'd relieved him of his capital. Catherine (the only one who'd traded with me to any extent before, as she wasn't isolated) did the exact same thing.

Julius would probably have capitulated but he only had the one city, so once I took it he gave up leadership for a quiet life fishing.

Sury-what's-his-name was a bit more stubborn - after taking his capital he didn't want to just roll over and die. So, off my forces went to his second city, where he hit my stack with most of his remaining forces.

Next turn, he wanted to capitulate for some reason... maybe because he hadn't got an army anymore. Should've thought of that before attacking my stack, hmm?

With the Khmer exterminated the game was won. This sort of map works well with a military strategy as long as you go for it fast enough to have the necessary tech lead (no other ocean-faring civs, nor even a single Musket made it to the front)

It must be a really weird map to be completely unwinable on noble.

Well, I managed to win.

After I rushed Mehmed, I built up units. I managed to rush just in time to get Cyrus, he delayed IW in this game unlike the previous games. From this point I got tons of wonders, and founded Taoism and Islam in Persepolis. Late in the game I founded two cities on two one tile islands so I could build more cathedrals. I also used Universal Suffrage to cash rush every building I could build in each of my cities. I won a fairly nice culture victory, my fourth highest scoring game :eek:

It must be a really weird map to be completely unwinable on noble.

It really isn't. I just suck.

Mainly, this map is all about the timing. I got the timing wrong on all of my previous attempts.


Take a look at the map though, it's awesome :D

... yeah, I also wonder. How cruel can the map generator be? Probabely just as cruel as the RNGod deciding over battles :rolleyes:

I've never won domination with such little land....:lol:.

I'm probably the only person who kept one of the closer AI's alive, too. What I did to the other was just dirty :p.

So Tectonics is still making these 95%+ water maps. :sad:

I'd kind of hoped that'd be fixed before they included it in the official patch.

Using the unofficial version last year, I remember seeing one even worse than this - it had the same amount of land, but almost all of it (except the civs' starting BFCs) was tundra, ice or peaks.

The biggest problem is that it totally screws up the AI to have so little space. Unlike a human player, it simply can't adapt to an environment where land is scarce. Give it room for five tightly-packed cities, and it'll only manage two or three. :smoke:

The biggest problem is that it totally screws up the AI to have so little space. Unlike a human player, it simply can't adapt to an environment where land is scarce. Give it room for five tightly-packed cities, and it'll only manage two or three.
... where max one is coastal :lol:

It took me many games, and a very long time, before I realized the value of delaying your early game rush so you can rush with swords rather than axes in lower difficulties, when your enemies would probably be using archers.

... where max one is coastal :lol:
And the other 2 are 1-tile off the coast and still have 12 coastal tiles in the BFC, heh. (ok, that my not even be possible, other than a 9-tile square island with the city dead center)