GAME STARTED

If you need help connecting talk to aybraus@msn.com or email me.
Check out the game progress on CivStats.com (http://www.civstats.com/viewgame.php?gameid=1049)

================================================== =

Number of players - Granted, this is probably going to be determined by the number of people who post in this thread, but still input would be nice.
Speed - Normal
Map - PerfectWorld.py, Huge, starting on Old World.
Options - No tech trading, city gifting, perm alliances, or vassalage. Barbs, huts, events, on.
Difficulty - Emperor
Peak time - Meaning, when we all get online. I'm a high school student in California, so in GMT, I can play any time from 0300 to 0600 onward any day except Friday. Also, I can play from 1500-1800 on Saturday and Sunday.
Manners - No wars until 3000BC, no double moving in wars.
Turns - Simultaneous turns with a 14 25-hour limit sound good?

Players:
Aybraus - Sitting Bull
Zekrazey1 - Elizabeth
Rusten - Pacal II
Quotey - Justinian
Elkad - Hannibal
Whiplash - Hyuna Capac
Slaze - Random
Ozyar - Victoria
Levgre - Ragnar
Classical Hero - Gilgamesh
Ronnie1 - Catherine
Munro - Willhem van Oranje
IanDC - Random
DanDRidge - Wilhem van Oranje
Hoplosternum - Mansa Musa

Doubt many would be willing to play with a 14 hours limit but i am up for it... If this is a normal game or a ffh game will make alot of things different though... I really don't like tech trading in mp as it is quite unbalancing so i would like to have this swtiched off. Also vassal states don't belong in game between humans and should probably be swtiched off as they can only lead to abuse. I don't like goodie huts or barbs because i feel they are unbalancing. I am fine with permanent alliances and random events on even though playing with permanent alliances might be quite weird, especially on a smaller map... What is perfectworld.py? I like normal speed myself. As for manners i would like to include no gifting of cities while you are in war to a party that is not at war with whoever you are at war with(to bump out the attacking party's units), and in general people should avoid things that can be considered exploits. I think no double moves in war will be almost impossible to enforce with 14 hours time limit(this means that each player have on average 7 hours to take his turn in war, with work and/or sleep this is not really possible)...

I am interested. But I agree with most of what oyzar says.

14 hour turns is usually doable but it won't be combined with double moving in war for most people. And that is very important if you don't want the lameness of double moving which dominate wars if allowed.

And it will mean a lot of missed turns. These are not crucial outside of war but are in war time. When people are enthusiastic at the start it may work but it is a long game and many of the players will realise from fairly early on they are unlikley to win this one. You don't want them missing turns half the time otherwise you are better off playing the AI. Unless you have an unusual set of players Pitboss rarely runs smoothly under a 24 hour cycle so a timer of 20 - 24 hours would be better IMO. It also allows you to enforce the no double move rule fairly which is a good thing. But I am happy to give 14 hours a try if you are really hooked on it.

I like events on. There is a killer early event (one of the early barb uprisings is usually fatal in mp as you can't afford to be cautious enough to play for it). So if you do play with this it is quite likely someone will be knocked out by this event. Only one of the barb uprising events comes too early to be handled. The others are simply annoying and can hurt the unwary. But the very early one has knocked out a nation in two of the games I have played with events on (which I think is out of a sample size of 3).

Normal is a good speed for Pitboss. I prefer Epic single player but I think normal is OK in Pitboss to keep the game moving.

I definitely agree with no tech trading. It just makes the game tech much too fast. And while it does make you use diplomacy, it is so essential that anyone locked out of the tech alliances is out.

I also don't know the map.

Personally I prefered standard crowding rather than a lot of crowding. Being very close to neighbours just increases the luck factor and further favours early UUs.

FFH is very different but I am sure you will get plenty of interest in that. I am interested in ffh or normal bts.

Barb events were changed in 3.17 so they are no longer as bad..

Personally i like fairly spaced maps with alot of rooms to expand but i am fine with whatever...

I'll also be interested in both types(normal or ffh).

*slams gavel*
It's decided then. Standard spacing, no tech trading, and 25 hour turns. Everything else--still up for discussion.

As for the PerfectWorld question, it's one of my favorite mods. It creates a terra map, only based on tectonics simulation. The maps are beautiful but merciless, as there are large deserts and the "New World" is very difficult to settle without a group effort.

25 hours is more like 30 hours of real time.. I would feel more comfortable playing 20 hours which is close to 24 hours real time(with 12 hours to move when moving first in a turn to avoid double moves, or maybe rollbacks if this is not possible). You pretty much need to decide if you want to play ffh or not, as people will base their signup on that...

I'm interested. but what is ffh?

I would definately prefer that the game have session times predetermined before sign up. I am self-employed and can play just about anytime I like but most people have more restricted time schedules.

I'll play. 14 hour timer is fine with me. I'm in one with a 12 hour timer.

The 5 of us could probably work out on a 14 hour schedule where we just reload anytime a double move would happen... Would be better than playing 20+ hours imo..

I'm interested. i like the 20 hr timer. No tech trading? how about no tech brokering?

I'm interested. i like the 20 hr timer. No tech trading? how about no tech brokering?

what made you like tech trading? :p

I'm in this current game where I'm about to get feudalism up on everybody but when I'll trade it away for metal casting and construction I know the whole world will have it before long. Man, it'd be so much nicer if I could dictate who gets feudalism and who doesn't.

I'm in this current game where I'm about to get feudalism up on everybody but when I'll trade it away for metal casting and construction I know the whole world will have it before long. Man, it'd be so much nicer if I could dictate who gets feudalism and who doesn't.

Or even better if you couldn't abuse tech trading alliances at all imo :p. Obviously no brokering is better than no restrictions at all but no tech trading is even better as you can still form backbreaking tech allinaces which aren't very fun...

I know, tech trading is great because it makes synergy. But I agree that it would be FAR too easy to abuse.
If only there was a mod that made it so that giving a technology only gives the person like 50% of the "test tube" for that technology.

i'll play

(10 characters)

If you can get FFH (Fall From Heaven mod) to work I'd be all over that. I just did some experimenting in Pitboss with it and hit some showstoppers. The main one being repeated OOS errors after the very first login.

Bernout

i'm intrested but i haven't played FFH yet.

Also interrested.

I am interested in a FFH game.... I played it a couple of times in single player and looks very interesting...

Doubt a ffh game is doable in pitboss though.. you would have to go to pbem for that...

Doubt a ffh game is doable in pitboss though.. you would have to go to pbem for that...


Hmm..why not?

Because of the oos issues, see bernouts post...

Because of the oos issues, see bernouts post...

Ok, I will do some testing and come back with the results, I was thinking of starting a FFH2 pitboss myself once Arboria is over...which should not take that long it seems...

I would recommend 18 hours per turn, as that would be 22 hours in reality (due to a sort of delay in the game, as we are not talking of atomic clock here).

I think "Tectonic" world could be interesting as well, or Hemispheres.

Tectonic is totaly unbalanced...

Yeah, I have found that in trying to test a few games for Pitboss that Im might be playing in, so I would discount that.

I'm interested in playing, no FFH, 20-24 hr timer, no tech trading for the reasons already submitted.

What is happening to this?

Obviously the host went MIA... I sent him a pm and an email so he might show up or he might not... by any rate if you guys are looking for a new pitboss game there is one starting up here http://www.tacticalgamer.com/civilization-iv-game-planning-coordination/ .

Well, if you go back to the OP he said the game would start Aug 20, so he's probably on vacation until then. No need to trip, we just gotta wait.

Well we can thrash out the setting while he is not here.

With 14+ people we are probably looking at a large or huge map(i would prefer huge). Permanent alliances seems rather abusive with no tech trading as such i don't think it is a good idea to have it on, if you want a teamer you should make it as such... As for manners i would like to add no city gifting that can lead to situations that are just an explot of the game system(break free of vassalage if that is on and bump people out of wars...). Random leaders or chosen leaders is the same to me, but i don't think it is a good idea to have unrestricted leaders on. For map choice i am pretty much fine with anything but i tend to like highlands, innland sea, hemispheres in that order...

I think a huge map would be good for this game. I don't think a teamer game would be good, so definitely no PA's allowed. No city gifting, that is just a nono. Cities can still flip though. I would like to have a random leader, because it seems that I do better when I play without a fixed method before playing. For the map I would like to play a Hemisphere map.

City gifting certanly have its applications... For peace treaties or border disputes they work perfect, but gifting cities to game the system shouldn't be allowed...

Well, if you go back to the OP he said the game would start Aug 20, so he's probably on vacation until then. No need to trip, we just gotta wait.

You are quite correct.

So how many players do you want? i don't think filling up this game(with 18) would be hard if that is what you want...

Alright. I hope you all don't mind--if you do, sorry--but the game has not started YET.

Send me an email at aybrdogaus@gmail.com, minus the name of an animal, to play. Include your choice of leader and anything you'd like to recomend options-wise.
I'll send you the server info in a reply, and we should be able to get the game going in a week.

Also, tech trading, city gifting, vassalage, and permanent alliances are out.

Some form of city gifting should be allowed, for example between two nations sharing borders when both are at peace or when people are at war with each other, however it should be not be allowed to be abused...

e-mail addy doesn't work.

Did you take the dog out :)

Did you take the dog out :)

yep.......

yep.......

Well it worked fine to me to just send to his username at gmail ...

yep.......

Odd. Well, give me your preferences and count yourself as in, I just don't want the thread flooded with signup posts, and I check my email more often than I check my PMs.

Well you can set the forum to send you an email every time someone post in this thread or pm's you...

It seems to have worked on the second try, so you should have my preference.

So is this going to be a FFH game or not?

So is this going to be a FFH game or not?

It won't be a FFH game.

I'm going out of town this weekend, I'll be back prolly late afternoon california time. If we start, can you wait untill late saturday night/Euro morning?, that way I can get in on the tail end of the timer sunday.

Sorry for the inconvenience. I suck :(

Ooh, I'd like to play. This'll be my first pitboss game.

Would be nice to have a list over current settings and what exactly people have chosen and who are in so far in this thread at least...

Okay I'll make the player list. The current settings I put on the OP.

I doubt with as many players as we'll be that we can get any live sessions going.. You should have scheduled them beforehand if that is what you wanted...

bob cash = whiplash btw. Also i am pretty sure i sent you an email, you didn't get it? I chose viccy anyways... I guess i'll try to resend. Maybe it landed in junkmail?

Will barbs and huts be on? I prefer them off...

My e-mail addy is whipdoglash@wi.rr.com. Take the dog out. :lol:

Okay! Game's all filled up as ten players should be plenty.NO!

I'll send you the server information in a jiff and start up a mini-game so you can test out your connection.

Just saw that the first post has been edited a few mins ago to say the game is now full, but you can put me down as a reserve in case anyone drops out anytime soon (or in case there is still room, then sign me up).

Bascially agree with oyzar's posts about game settings etc. The Perfect World map script looks really interesting. :)

Ian Narin = IanDC . Also pretty sure that Quotey wants to change to justian. Also most of the people who posted in the thread originally are certanly still interested. Hellwitch is away for the weekend(just as slaze), but sure he is interested still. Also pretty sure hoplosternum and classical hero are interested. Anyways you are host so you decide. How big map are you looking at? Large with 10 people maybe? Getting the full 18 wouldn't be a problem if you wanted to(but some people like smaller maps). Obviously with 10 people it is alot easier to arange live sessions.

I would like to play if you are still recruiting people. Or put me down as a sub.

Mali please. Or Carthage. Or Random....

I would like to play if you are still recruiting people. Or put me down as a sub.

Mali please. Or Carthage. Or Random....

The game isn't full. Send me an email and you're in.

After our discussion earlier... I thought of a setting that might work well if we decide to go with terra. We could start in the renaissance era, so we don't stop war, yet we still get to astronomy and colonization relatively quick.

Ian Narin = IanDC . Also pretty sure that Quotey wants to change to justian. Also most of the people who posted in the thread originally are certanly still interested. Hellwitch is away for the weekend(just as slaze), but sure he is interested still. Also pretty sure hoplosternum and classical hero are interested. Anyways you are host so you decide. How big map are you looking at? Large with 10 people maybe? Getting the full 18 wouldn't be a problem if you wanted to(but some people like smaller maps). Obviously with 10 people it is alot easier to arange live sessions.

Actually Ian Nairn is me, not IanDC. His surname is Curry I think. I got in and we use DirectIP, no LAN as instructed in the Email. Make sure that it is simultaneous turns.

I also able to join the test game, also with direct IP rather than LAN.

I entered the test game with no problem.

I've been considering joining but hadn't sent in any preference, I guess the choice you have down for me is CHero's.

Thanks for the connection details. I was able to get into the test game fine.

Since the size hasn't been announced yet, with 14 players (all starting in the Old World) can I assume we will we be going for large size or huge?

- If we are going for large size, I chose Pacal II (Mayans)
- If we are going for huge size, I chose Willem Van Oranje (Dutch)

Cheers,
Munro

Do we really want to use the PerfectWorld map script? I'm fine with playing alternative maps, but after downloading and opening a map with this script in world builder I can't say I'm that enthusiastic.

Here's three starting locations--these are all from the same map.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh206/Rust1/pw10000.jpg

The northern start has 5 gems and 2 coastal fish and the south-eastern one has no resources at all.

Here's another one from the same area.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh206/Rust1/pw20000.jpg
Sure, civilization isn't balanced like competitive RTS, but this is a little over the top--I can't see it work out.

Alright. Everyone check the OP to make sure that your leader choices are correct and tell me if they aren't. If I haven't sent you connection instructions, notify me of that as well.

The northern start has 5 gems and 2 coastal fish and the south-eastern one has no resources at all.

What, you don't count Uranium? :P

Im new to hamachi and not able to connect. Probably my ignorance and nothing more, just may need a little hand holding to get connected.

I still need connection instructions

I don't see a list in the lan lobby

The server isn't running right now. Sorry!

Well, good to know

Im new to hamachi and not able to connect. Probably my ignorance and nothing more, just may need a little hand holding to get connected.

Pretty sure anyone of us could help you over msn... https://secure.logmein.com/products/hamachi/vpn.asp?lang=nb you download hamachi here...

Do we really want to use the PerfectWorld map script? I'm fine with playing alternative maps, but after downloading and opening a map with this script in world builder I can't say I'm that enthusiastic.

Here's three starting locations--these are all from the same map.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh206/Rust1/pw10000.jpg

The northern start has 5 gems and 2 coastal fish and the south-eastern one has no resources at all.

Here's another one from the same area.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh206/Rust1/pw20000.jpg
Sure, civilization isn't balanced like competitive RTS, but this is a little over the top--I can't see it work out.

Wow, that's a lot more unbalanced than I was expecting. I assume you're using the latest version of the map script? I do remember reading that the script adjusts starting resources based on how 'good' the start is (including land available for expansion) which could be what's going on in the first screenshot - since one start is 'isolated' on a small island (but sailing clearly makes it unbalanced). That may be something we can work around by tweaking the map settings / regnerating a few times, but if we use this script we should definitely have an independent 3rd party vet. the map for fairness before we start.

Looks like some careful experimentation with the mapscript settings is necessary, and then perhaps autogenerate 5-10 different starts and have an independent 3rd party chose the fairest one (perhaps with minor tweaks to resources if needed, or even an extra settler or starting worker or tech or something like that if justified anywhere - e.g. if there is a minority of starts that're clearly under powered / over powered)? That'd take some care but I don't think it'd be too hard to find someone willing to do that.

Anyway, it'd be nice to use the perfectworld script if we can - the maps look really interesting (but agree with Rusten that it needs also to be viable as an enjoyable but competitive game).

Another potential solution might be to play in teams of 2, to help smooth out the worst effects of randomness. That would obviously be quite a different game though, so that might not be an option unless everyone was keen.

I belive we already got someone to regenerate a map that would be somewhat balanced for everyone(aka no modifications but no insanely bad starts either), just regenerations.

Ok, I've made the WB save at aybraus request for this ( nothing too crazy in terms of starting positions, but some are clearly more challenging than others ) ;) Before sending it to him I just wanted to ask if someone wants a particular color or artstyle for their civ. I recommend this especially for the doubled civs , to avoid confusion in game ( the game autoassigns a diferent color style in that case, but you might not like it..... )

The possible colors are defined in CIV4PlayerColorInfos.XML in Beyond the sword/Assets/XML/Interface. If needed I can post the colors in here...... Primary color is the main color of flag and of border, secondary color is the color of the flag symbols
<PlayerColorInfos>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_BLACK</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_BLACK</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_WHITE</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_BLACK_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_BLUE</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_BLUE</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_WHITE</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_BLUE_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_BROWN</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_BROWN</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_YELLOW</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_BROWN_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_CYAN</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_CYAN</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_BLACK</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_CYAN_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_DARK_BLUE</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_BLUE</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_YELLOW</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_BLUE_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_DARK_CYAN</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_CYAN</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_WHITE</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_CYAN_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_DARK_GREEN</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_GREEN</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_YELLOW</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_GREEN_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_DARK_PINK</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_PINK</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_YELLOW</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_PINK_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_DARK_PURPLE</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_PURPLE</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_YELLOW</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_PURPLE_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_DARK_RED</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_RED</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_YELLOW</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_RED_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_DARK_YELLOW</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_YELLOW</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_RED</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_YELLOW_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_GRAY</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_GRAY</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_BLACK</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_GRAY_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_GREEN</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_GREEN</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_BLACK</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_GREEN_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_ORANGE</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_ORANGE</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_WHITE</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_ORANGE_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_PEACH</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_PEACH</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_BLACK</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_PEACH_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_PINK</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_PINK</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_RED</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_PINK_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_PURPLE</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_PURPLE</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_BLACK</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_PURPLE_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_RED</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_RED</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_WHITE</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_RED_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_WHITE</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_WHITE</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_RED</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_WHITE_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_YELLOW</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_YELLOW</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_BLUE</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_YELLOW_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_LIGHT_GREEN</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_LIGHT_GREEN</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_BLUE</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_LIGHT_GREEN_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_LIGHT_BLUE</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_LIGHT_BLUE</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_BLACK</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_LIGHT_BLUE_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_LIGHT_YELLOW</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_LIGHT_YELLOW</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_BLACK</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_LIGHT_YELLOW_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_LIGHT_PURPLE</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_LIGHT_PURPLE</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_BLACK</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_LIGHT_PURPLE_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_LIGHT_ORANGE</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_LIGHT_ORANGE</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_DARK_GREEN</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_LIGHT_ORANGE_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_MIDDLE_PURPLE</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_MIDDLE_PURPLE</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_GOLDENROD</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_MIDDLE_PURPLE_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_DARK_GRAY</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_GRAY</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_YELLOW</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_GRAY_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_MIDDLE_GREEN</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_MIDDLE_GREEN</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_CYAN_TEXT</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_MIDDLE_GREEN_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_DARK_LEMON</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_LEMON</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_BLACK</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_LEMON_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_MIDDLE_BLUE</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_MIDDLE_BLUE</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_RED_TEXT</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_MIDDLE_BLUE_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_MIDDLE_CYAN</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_MIDDLE_CYAN</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_MAROON</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_MIDDLE_CYAN_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_LIGHT_BROWN</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_LIGHT_BROWN</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_BLACK</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_LIGHT_BROWN_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_DARK_ORANGE</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_ORANGE</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_BLACK</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_ORANGE_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_DARK_DARK_GREEN</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_DARK_GREEN</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_PALE_RED</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_DARK_GREEN_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_DARK_INDIGO</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_INDIGO</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_PALE_ORANGE</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_INDIGO_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_RED_AND_GOLD</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_RED</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_YELLOW</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_RED_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_GOLD_AND_BLACK</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_GOLDENROD</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_BLACK</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_GOLDENROD</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_GREEN_AND_BLACK</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_GREEN</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_BLACK</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_GREEN_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_DARK_CYAN_AND_LEMON</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_CYAN</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_LIGHT_YELLOW</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_CYAN_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_BLACK_AND_GREEN</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_LIGHT_BLACK</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_MIDDLE_GREEN</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_LIGHT_BLACK_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_GREEN_AND_WHITE</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_GREEN</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_WHITE</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_WHITE_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_CYAN_AND_GRAY</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_CYAN</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_GRAY</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_CYAN_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_DARK_INDIGO_AND_WHITE</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_INDIGO</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_WHITE</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_INDIGO_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_ORANGE_AND_GREEN</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_ORANGE</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_GREEN</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_ORANGE_TEXT</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>Two players already asked me to change colors ;)

Well hey! It's the 27th in GMT. Let's get this party started!

And it's ready! Two things though before you connect:
1) Instead of joining an LAN game, join a direct IP and use the IP of pitboss host as indicated by hamachi.
2) Use the same password that the hamachi network has to join the game.

I have a question for you. See your MSN

Can you put up Civstats?

Why did i start with 2 warriors? Also changing color would be nice(but by no means needed).

I have 2 warriors as well. Maybe we all do?

I'd call my start acceptable, but it sure doesn't follow the normal rules (some generally unpermitted terrain in my FC)

Well if you had tried test generating a few map you would see that you can easily get desert / thundra / ice / peaks / jungle in the starting bfc with this map generator... The point is not to remove this but to make sure all starts are acceptable.

Also civstats is definatly needed...

I didn't start with 2 warriors. That is strange. Perhaps Ricardo gave people an extra warrior to fine-tune the balance. If it really is a mistake, I'll have to ask you all to delete that unit.

Added the game on civstats. Password is the usual.
http://www.civstats.com/viewgame.php?gameid=1049

we still have an unclaimed leader... Munro

Oh good, I was wondering how to check if the turn had ended without logging in.

I also have 2 warriors, but my start seems ok ... Should I wait (to see what we're doing with it) before I take my next turn?

[edit] It seems other people have taken their turn, so I've taken mine as well.

I have 2 warriors (and a decent start) as well.

Hmm i am wondering if we maybe got different difficulties(Aybraus maybe forgot to set this up when he made the game)? Easiest way to check this is to compare tech cost(or maybe it is writted in settings). So for example what does agriculture cost for everyone(it should be the same)?

f8->settings tells me emperor difficulty.

Just so you guys know - I'm Munro's back up player, and just logged in to test the connection. I'm not some random person joining the game :)

Just so you guys know - I'm Munro's back up player, and just logged in to test the connection. I'm not some random person joining the game :)

I seldom bother with fixing substitues before i am actually away :p. One thing i do wonder about though is why munro didn't end his turn when he logged in as last in the previous turn. I doubt he is in war atm...

Hmm i am wondering if we maybe got different difficulties(Aybraus maybe forgot to set this up when he made the game)?

Something comes you to suspect that?

Something comes you to suspect that?

Well only the warrior issue...

The warrior issue is actually my fault :blush: I misnamed one of the files and sent one with 2 warriors for all the Aybraus oponents..... If needed I can send the actual save :p
I misnamed the save that I obtained before cleaning the units ......

Why was that save file even made I wonder? lol

Anyway, please delete your extra unit.

You have to make that save file first, then clean it up... He didn't have to make it emperor though...

I seldom bother with fixing substitues before i am actually away :p. One thing i do wonder about though is why munro didn't end his turn when he logged in as last in the previous turn. I doubt he is in war atm...

Actually, I am away over the weekend (this monday is a national holiday here in the US). So that's why I needed a sub so soon. Also, I did end-turn after logging in last (because it rolled over to the next turn and I played that as well) but if I didn't end the second turn as well, that was a mistake. I'll check it more carefully in future.

Finally, just to be clear about the warriors - starting with two warriors was unintentional, and anyone who has two warriors should delete one right away, correct? Sounds like that applies to everyone except Aybraus.

What about my Mech Inf do I have to delete him as well?
:shifty:

Don't you think it'll be a little hard to coordinate 18 players to delete a warrior? I trust the norweigan fellers as far as I can throw them. I'll do it though.

I'll delete the warrior alright, but not sure if everyone are even readint this thread reguarly...

I got 2 scouts, decent start. I can delete 1 if that is what we decide. Ill have 1 be stationary until i hear for sure.

EDIT: Everyone in this game should subscribe to this thread!

I think the host has our e-mails (from sign-up) -- he could just send another group message about the warrior issue.

Or I could just have it be the MOTD

I am not sure people read that though :p

I dont even know where to locate the MOTD!

What if a bear deleted one of my warriors for me already :P

Thats a pretty early bear! Im only on T2, and animals dont usually show until about T6-7.

the MOTD shows up when you first login, same place you all the other messages regarding the game (wonders built, etc)

One warrior deleted as per motd.

One warrior deleted.

one scout deleted

7 people have yet to delete their warriors... Thats not to mention the people who haven't deleted their scouts... Please at the very least send out an email about this...

I deleted a warrior, and found a scout in a hut with my other warrior :P.

Deleted one warrior.

BTW, who is playing the MOTD? :mischief:

Why was that save file even made I wonder? lol


It was done :p I'll upload it to this post as soon as I get home, just to take the suspicions of me :p

You know, someone was pressing me via MSN to send the save ASAP.... :p

Just kidding ;)

Deleted the extra Warrior. Looking the info screen my Soldiers value dropped from 4000 to 2000. But how the best rival has a Soldier value of 10000 (that was already on the 1st turn btw)?

It was done :p I'll upload it to this post as soon as I get home, just to take the suspicions of me :p

You know, someone was pressing me via MSN to send the save ASAP.... :p

Just kidding ;)
Listen, no hard feelings. If it was an accident it's forgivable. If it was a prank it's hilarious.

We'll leave it at that.

Deleted the extra Warrior. Looking the info screen my Soldiers value dropped from 4000 to 2000. But how the best rival has a Soldier value of 10000 (that was already on the 1st turn btw)?
That's over 9000! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBtpyeLxVkI). But to be honest, this is just going to have to be something for the honor system to sort out. We must trust in the honor system.

Deleted my extra warrior.

Deleted the extra Warrior. Looking the info screen my Soldiers value dropped from 4000 to 2000. But how the best rival has a Soldier value of 10000 (that was already on the 1st turn btw)?
Some techs add to your power/soldiers.

Quite a map btw! After 3 turns of scouting and getting a map from a hut I haven't seen a single resource tile:lol:

Are there any resources at all on this map:confused:

top soldier value is hoplosternum with wheel + mining + 2 warriors = 10K

Are there any resources at all on this map:confused:

I see a seafood, but thats it so far for me.

Quite a map btw! After 3 turns of scouting and getting a map from a hut I haven't seen a single resource tile:lol:

Are there any resources at all on this map:confused:

If you have no resources at all(and no floods or the like), i'll find it hard that rolo didn't regenerate your start, that said i've seen two resources so far and those are both in my capital bfc...

I have 1 resource so far, but it's a rather poor one.

I deleted 1 scout. From what ive read here, i got a very good start! It looks like my settler landed in a clam bed! :lol:

I'm hoping AH reveals horses in every tile in my BFC..

I can't finish connecting when trying to join the game. It gets to 'connected to host' but no further.

Getting that as well here.

yup, server appears to be hung

Probably some error message from the pitboss program that causes it to hang... Host probably just have to click it. Or maybe someone exited to desktop instead of main menue and caused the connection to hang that way...

The culprit seems to be Metacomet

metacomet is the host himself... so i kinda doubt that

I have two rather useless ones for growth, but great for other things, but I do have two fishes, but only one is workable, no matter what I did. It is not the best map so far. Well he is the last one to play.

Probably some error message from the pitboss program that causes it to hang... Host probably just have to click it. Or maybe someone exited to desktop instead of main menue and caused the connection to hang that way...

Fixed it.
What does exiting to the desktop do (I've... done that)?

It might cause the connection to hang...

Not might, it does cause it to hang. Which is why you must first exit to main menu and then exit from there. It is a flaw in the program, b ut something that you get to live with and I do it by force of habit now and exit to main menu when in SP games now.

Not might, it does cause it to hang. Which is why you must first exit to main menu and then exit from there. It is a flaw in the program, b ut something that you get to live with and I do it by force of habit now and exit to main menu when in SP games now.

Yeah, me too.

Anyway, just confirming that I deleted my second warrior (before moving on turn 2, as soon as I saw the MOTD).

I have an interesting start, but not unreasonable.

Well the connection was down for the second time in the past 24 hours, this time for a different reason. Shall we go back to the most recent save?

If it didn't cause anyone problems it should be fine, that said you should reboot the server / pitboss(and cistats) program regurarly. They are both rather unstable and can't handle running for too long at a time...

No need to reload that I can see.

I deleted my second quecha.

If it didn't cause anyone problems it should be fine, that said you should reboot the server / pitboss(and cistats) program regurarly. They are both rather unstable and can't handle running for too long at a time...

Would once a week be good?

Capsavian Hopewell is subbing for me. Having some difficulties life and computer wise. Should hopefully not be too long.

I'll try not to run your country into the ground too quickly.

Wishing you a speedy return, Quotey!

And a "hello" to everyone else in the game.

Would once a week be good?

Should be fine.

by the way, deleted the spare warrior, as per the instructions from King Quotey and this thread itself. (in case anyone cares!)

Why so paranoid about the warrior? There's no need for all that.

It's just to be fair.

Why so paranoid about the warrior? There's no need for all that.

an additional warrior (or in my case, scout) could equal extra techs, gold, etc. Early on a second unit is pretty nice.

The game is down.

Indeed it is. Unfortunately, you'll have to wait until tomorrow for me to reboot it. Sorry!

Server's up again! Hoorah!

The pitboss host is not on hamachi...

The uploader is down also.

Oh for pete's sake. I just fixed it.

Hmm... I'll have to check out what's going on when I get home from school (9 hours from now). Hopefully it's just a coincidence and not a consistent problem.

Well it is unstable... But if you rebooted the computer it shouldn't crash every day...

As I discovered, it wasn't crashing, it was sleeping! I inadvertently set it to sleep after an hour.

need a replacement for slaze http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=291090 check here...

Yes, sub needed...

I can take over for Slaze

I can take over for Slaze

All you, lemme send you the info.

I'm considering turning this game into a sort of hybrid between a pitboss and a pbem using a shared DropBox (http://getdropbox.com) folder. In short, we'll be able to enjoy the "simultaneous turn" perk of pbem games while not having to worry about all the technical problems that Pitbosses suffer.

I'll be checking if it's possible. If it is, expect the server to shut down some time in the next week. So download dropbox, and give me your email address if I don't already have it.

What exactly does this mean? I would not be interested in playing if you turned this into a PBEM...

Count me out if it is not a Pitboss

I'm not interested in it as PBEM either. Besides slowing the turn sequence down (by a lot), it makes it impossible for people to login at the same time for trading, wars, etc.

im not interested in pbem either

Good news! I can't do it.

Bad news, the server is down.

Good news! I fixed it.
Bad news, our cable modem was turned off accidently but the server was still running, so people have missed their turns.
Good news! I will restore the server to the most recent backup if anyone lost a crucial turn as a result.

This caused me to miss a turn completely! It's early, so I'll let it slide, but in the future, you may need to add some time to the timer, or back up far enough to make sure no turns are "lost".

I'm having internet problems. They're going to last about 2 weeks. It connects fine but loses connection while transferring the data. I'll try a few more times, but I may have to find a sub.

[update]
Setting the connection option in civ to modem seems to work.

Omg i hate barbs.. they've eaten two warriors now...

I shall be away from the 3rd to the 11th. As the animals have eaten most of my warriors is it OK if I just queue up my orders? Or do I need a sub? Or even go AI for a few days?

Civstats says the game is down, BUT IT IS NOT, the problem is at civstats, so keep playing!!!

I shall be away from the 3rd to the 11th. As the animals have eaten most of my warriors is it OK if I just queue up my orders? Or do I need a sub? Or even go AI for a few days?

I would get a sub for the weekends, during the week the turns take around 25 hours anyway.


I'll fix the uploader, but yeah, keep playing. The server is going to be off on Friday from 4-11 Pacific at most, because I'm going to be using it for other things.

FYI - I'm going to be away again this weekend. adrianJ is subbing for me as before. Back sunday evening.

Cheers,
Munro

The people I hoped would be able to take over can't. So I have no sub :(

I have left my password with Aybraus so he can either turn me AI or give it to a sub if one should show up. Otherwise I am back on the 12th.

The uploader is down with only a bit over two hours left with the host, mikeyia and whiplash still to play.

The game is still running! Only civstats is having an issue, so keep playing, and checking back into the game as necessary!!

The game is still running! Only civstats is having an issue, so keep playing, and checking back into the game as necessary!!
Thanks for posting about this yesterday -- I would've missed my turn if it wasn't for your previous post. :)

Server is offline and paused. Will be back online in 5 hours at the most

Technical problems again! Server is back online and restored from an autosave made at 5 AM on October 5th PST

Wasn't there a more recent autosave? There should be an autosave from the last time each player logged in at the following location, no?

\My Documents\My Games\Beyond the Sword\Saves\pitboss\auto\

This has the potential to be quite game changing for me since the animals now have a second chance to eat my settler.. :sad: :(

This is the turn the game went down so not sure what the problem is...

No, it wasn't the turn that the game went down. adrianJ was subbing for me, and he had already played in that turn, hit end turn, and played in the turn afterwards as well. So the reload was back 2 turns for me.

Regardless, the net effect is that I replayed my moves and this time, incredibly, the panther DID eat my warrior + settler (on a forested hill, with 1.2% odds). That's not how it happened originally. The first time around, the warrior won (at 98.8% odds).

Now, I don't want to sound like a bad sport but this is obviously
- a) game changing
- b) unfair

I understand there are going to be technical problems but losing a settler at 1.2% odds because of a reload is ridiculous. Sorry to have to ask this, but please can I request a reload so that I can replay my moves as they actually happened?

Thanks,
Munro

I would have to agree with munro on this one!

I've got no problem with a reload.

I'm fine with a reload as well.

We should reload instead of continuing....I also want to note that I was looking on civstats...and it says there is a "Turn Limit" for this game at 127 turns....the game itself says a 500 turn limit as a normal length game...which is correct?...if that is truly the case(127), then continuing a game that will "end" in another 86 turns is kinda pointless.

the game itself is correct of course... civstats is something you set manually...

I guess Aybraus is away? I did also PM him about the reload but haven't heard anything back.

I have an out of town trip starting early tomorrow and will be back on Oct 21st (11 days). I have a sub lined up but if I don't hear back before I leave, I'll just kick it to AI since I am not really that interested in playing on as things stand.

Hopefully we can still get this sorted out though. Aybraus?

I received a response from Aybraus:

Hi,

Just wondering if you saw my post in the pitboss thread? That last reload screwed me over - I replayed my turns but they turned out completely differently and I lost my settler + warrior to a panther at 1.2% odds.

Please can you reload it again from the same point so we can recreate it how it originally happened? I am not really interested in playing on as it stands.

Thanks,
Munro
I reloaded the turn without knowing that it would impact you, so it's completely fair play if you happened to be less lucky on the reload. It's like messing up when dealing a poker hand--it doesn't matter if one player had a royal flush, the cards have to be redealt because one player got an extra card.

I'm not going to reload the turn precisely BECAUSE you had bad luck. I have to be fair to the other players, who have exposed themselves to such randomness as much as you have.

Aybraus, I take your point but I don't think this is the same. In the poker hand, it's not possible to 'replay' the original hand on discovering the extra card, since knowledge of that card fundamentally affects the way that hand will be played. That's not the case here - the only thing preventing us from replaying the moves as they happened is your unwillingness to do so.

Secondly, it's not true that everyone is equally exposed to risk from the reload, since there is very little combat this early in the game. Most likely everyone else was able to replay their moves without any additional risk - certainly not of losing a city or a settler or anything close. So the reload unfairly impacted me (by giving me another chance to lose) - and (most likely) me alone.

If the boot was on the other foot and it was YOU that had lost your settler or city at 1.2% odds due to a technical problem, I would have no objections to a reload, and it seems from the posts above that at least some of the other players feel the same.

If there are (still) no objections from other players, is there any chance you will reconsider? It's supposed to be fun after all.. this is not going to make for an enjoyable game for me.

Just asking out of ignorance...but do "other" player moves affect the RNG for Munro's game.

If that is the case, then even if he replayed exactly as before, someone else taking advantage of the reload to "explore" in a different direction, or changing a worker action could cause big problems.

If that is not the case, then i assume that munro/adrianj did not re-execute the moves exactly as intended.

I still favor a reload no matter the circumstances, as munro got totally hosed the second time around through NO fault of his own. If there had NEVER been a reload to begin with, we would not be having this discussion.

The RNG would be exactly the same if everyone did exactly the same in exactly the same order... Given that it is terribly unlikely that everything do everything in the same order even if they do the same moves it'll be hard to recreate exactly what happened at any given point in time...

No, it wasn't the turn that the game went down. adrianJ was subbing for me, and he had already played in that turn, hit end turn, and played in the turn afterwards as well. So the reload was back 2 turns for me.

Regardless, the net effect is that I replayed my moves and this time, incredibly, the panther DID eat my warrior + settler (on a forested hill, with 1.2% odds). That's not how it happened originally. The first time around, the warrior won (at 98.8% odds).

Now, I don't want to sound like a bad sport but this is obviously
- a) game changing
- b) unfair

I understand there are going to be technical problems but losing a settler at 1.2% odds because of a reload is ridiculous. Sorry to have to ask this, but please can I request a reload so that I can replay my moves as they actually happened?

Thanks,
Munro

Thing is, what if the first time your units were killled by the panther? Would we reload 100 times until we got the same result again?
The pre-reload game becomes non-existent. The reload becomes the actual game.

Personally I think the policy is that whatever happens during the reload should stand, although we could make an exception in this case since we haven't discussed it yet and made a rule.

Well, strict rules can be useful, but they should also be reasonable and fair - otherwise the game just stops being fun. And in the case of reloads, IMHO that should mean making a reasonable effort to ensure that no player is unfairly or excessively penalised (or receives an unfair or excessive advantage) as a result of a reload that they had nothing to do with.

Late in the game that probably does mean that the reload should always stand, since there is no practical alternative (and the impact of each individual RNG is so much less anyway) - but here we could easily have honoured the original (and overwhelmingly likely) outcome, and allowed my game to remain competitive and fun.

Anyway - that's just my view, but this issue (and the clear differences in philosophy by which this game is being run) have killed my interest in continuing. Sorry to throw an AI into the mix, but I am going to be retiring from the game instead.

Good luck with the rest of the game, and sorry we couldn't reach an agreement on this.

Munro

I really don't like an AI being in the game already because it can screw up the balance, it is basically free land and cities for anyone near Munro's civ.

Can we reload this one time? It is going to decrease the quality of the game, I believe, and it all was just a matter of luck.

I dont mind taking over AI, if you want me in??

As someone obsessed with mathematics and probability, I know that this is NOT fair to the other players, and I consider it bad sportsmanship to quit the game after a stroke of bad luck.

But worse than an unfair game is a nonexistent game, and I should have made that clear. I'll do the reboot on October 12, when I'm able to access my server. Until then, create alternate history I suppose. From now on, all reboots are final for everyone.

This is actually probably a good thing, since I've been on a short-term-notice trip since yesterday and have had my (civ iv tenderfoot) sibling play for both me and holplos. She's been following my directions via phone, but still...

should we make a rule though, that if at war a person can not make different moves after a reload? Because they might have discovered new information after their previous move... they shouldn't be able to take that information into account, I think.

No answer to if you want me in or not??

It was oyzar who asked me.

should we make a rule though, that if at war a person can not make different moves after a reload? Because they might have discovered new information after their previous move... they shouldn't be able to take that information into account, I think.This SHOULD always be the case, even when not at war IMO. Just like a reload from an autosave during a GOTM or SGOTM caused by a computer crash. You are supposed to recreate the moves EXACTLY as the first time around.

I agree, though I don't know what a GOTM is.

Bjarkekr, you're in if Munro doesn't reply by the time I reboot. Did ozyar tell you all the details?

I guess Aybraus is away? I did also PM him about the reload but haven't heard anything back.

I have an out of town trip starting early tomorrow and will be back on Oct 21st (11 days). I have a sub lined up but if I don't hear back before I leave, I'll just kick it to AI since I am not really that interested in playing on as things stand.

Hopefully we can still get this sorted out though. Aybraus?

did you even read his posts? He is out of town for a while, he have a sub in most of his other games...

I agree, though I don't know what a GOTM is.

Bjarkekr, you're in if Munro doesn't reply by the time I reboot. Did ozyar tell you all the details?

I got the login details for hamachi, thats it.

the game / civstats pw etc is all the same as the hamachi pw ...

ok.. Tell me when to take over the AI.

Hi,

I am back from my holiday but my password no longer works. I am happy for The Sub to continue playing my civ, and of course happy to continue myself, but currently I can't....

Thanks for finding me a sub by the way :)

I agree, though I don't know what a GOTM is.

Bjarkekr, you're in if Munro doesn't reply by the time I reboot. Did ozyar tell you all the details?
GOTM stands for Game Of The Month, SGOTM adds Succession to the beginning, (though succession games typically run for 3-4 months).

These are competitions that are planned/prepared and hosted by the fine folks that host this fine forum site. There are standard rules of conduct that can be found here http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/1st_visit.php#rules.

Bjarkekr, you're in if Munro doesn't reply by the time I reboot. Did ozyar tell you all the details?

As Oyzar pointed out, Munro isn't available at the moment, although I have been subbing for him in his other games, and in fact subbed for him earlier in this one.

I believe that with the reload going ahead, Munro intends to play on. So I think passing his game to another player is a bit hasty.

"this issue (and the clear differences in philosophy by which this game is being run) have killed my interest in continuing"

Well Munro did say he was quitting, not just conditionally, so I think bjarkleman should permanently sub in for Munro.

I'll reboot the server tonight.

Can I rejoin the game? Or has the Sub taken over permenantly? I am happy either way. My old password does not work so I can no longer play turns....

Haha! The panther ate the warrior/settler again (same odds). Go figure.

Sorry to bother you guys since I'm only a sub and not really a part of the game - I don't want to get too involved in this discussion. Was the game reloaded at the start of the turn where the settler is dead, or the end of the turn before? It seems that either the game reloaded with the dead settler already saved, or the RNG had already been set to give the same inevitable result.

It's interesting that at one point in time the warrior/settler did survive, and somehow the RNG changed to give the new result that's happening now. I guess if it comes to votes - 2 dead vs 1 alive you'd have to go with the dead result.

I think it was reloaded to after the panther incident. I was online both times the game got reloaded and this time the turn had (seemingly) passed while the previous time it was loaded to before CH and Munro had taken their turns (1 turn before this one).

It had to have been reloaded 1 turn too late....that also shows that somewhere along the line...(who knows where), someone did NOT recreate their turn as they did the "1st time" through to change the RNG.

fix the turn and give hoplo back his civ.. little point in reloading if you are not doing that... Ronnie1: someone doesn't even have to change their turn, just have to change the line...

game down? unable to connect

It had to have been reloaded 1 turn too late....that also shows that somewhere along the line...(who knows where), someone did NOT recreate their turn as they did the "1st time" through to change the RNG.

Oh gosh what year should I reload back to?

Hmmm, my repeated log in / log out on civstats must seem strange. My connection keeps on failing at the "Transferring game data to" stage.
I've had this happen in another pitboss game, but not so frequently as this...

EDIT: I finally managed to log in, and I replayed the moves exactly. The only thing I think that can save that settler from the wrath of the RNG gods is if players have played their turns in a different order. Oh behalf of myself and Munro, thank you Aybraus and everyone for your extreme patience playing out this reload.

My comp is down for a while. Boot me to AI.

My comp is down for a while. Boot me to AI.

But you need to repeat your turns!

:rolleyes:

The settler survived!

And there was MUCH rejoicing.

Still have to see if i pop a tech from a hut again. May need to reload if not.
:sarcasm: Seriously won't matter to me if not.

you made my heart skip a beat there.

I wasn't able to repeat my turn the same because there was a bear on the tile I moved my scout to last time... seems it didn't matter though.

My warrior that survived last time this time died to a bear...

My warrior that survived last time this time died to a bear...
The reload has proved to be shitty for me too. :(

Somebody please send or post the connect data. Abry's e-mail does not work.

OK, I have the connect data; the host needs to boot me to AI so that I can join.

Maybe I will complain a bit about the reload. Instead of popping a free tech I let loose a barbarian horde and lost a warrior. Oh well crap happens.

Thanks for reloading. I'm back from my trip, so will plan to play on unless I hear otherwise. Sorry to everyone who had already played several turns before the reload happened with better luck than now.... :(

Unless the host gets his act together real quick I will leave this game permanently. He has taken over my civ and refuses to release it back.

You are currently AI so i have no idea how you can't take back control...

Uh oh. Maybe Aybraus doesn't have 'take over AI' enabled? Neither of the two AI civs show up in the leader selection screen, which means that now they've been kicked to AI, no-one can take them back. :(

As far as I know, the only way to fix this is to reload to before they were kicked to AI (and it also means no-one can ever be kicked to AI in the future). Unless anyone else knows of another way?

Fortunately, it looks like they were only kicked to AI last night at about 1:13 am US eastern time (less than 24 hours ago) so the reload shouldn't be too painful. In fact, according to civstats I was the last person to play before the host kicked both civs to AI, so the last autosave before then would be:

\My Documents\My Games\Beyond the Sword\Saves\pitboss\auto\Recovery_Munro.CivBeyondS wordSave

Aybraus: any chance you can reload from here? I will avoid logging back in again in the meantime to avoid overwriting the autosave.

Anyone who's played since then will need to replay their last turn.

Make a copy of that autosave munro!

It's a file on Aybraus' pitboss server - that's just the default location for where they go.. I can't access it though. But hopefully it's there. :)

Yes. I was wondering why I had been removed from the game....

Still I was coming last anyway with a fairly crappy start :)

Not having take over AI enabled in such a huge game is a rather big mistake... Maybe we even have to restart...

The host now has me disconnected from the Hamachi network.

I'm out of here!

Aybraus: what's going on in with this game? It doesn't look like you've played your turn in at least the last 2 turns and we're waiting to hear from you about reloading to before you kicked Hoplosternum and whiplash (if he still wants to play) to AI.

In the meantime, I'm not able to log in and play my turns either because it'll overwrite the autosave so that's at least 3 of us that aren't able to access the game right now.

Are you there?

In the meantime, please can someone else (anyone but me, Hoplosternum or whiplash) log in and pause the turn timer so we don't have a bunch of meaningless turns rolling over in the meantime?

I've been doing homework like crazy for the past week, everyone. I'm very sorry.

And I didn't turn on Take Over AI?!? Crap crap crap.

I'm turning the server off, and I fully plan on letting Hoplos and Whiplash access the game again, but I don't know what we should do at this point... What do you all propose?

The only option I see is to reload back to where Hoplo and Whip have control of there civs. Then there is no way to kick to AI so that leaves finding subs when you are away or the terrible option of queuing up future moves.

The last and possibly best option would be a complete restart.

The last and possibly best option would be a complete restart.

This game has been really messy and seeing as the settings are messed up this seems best to me too.

IMO we should change the map as well. If not I'm not sure I'll want to join in on the remake.

Okay we'll change the map. Any suggestions?

I was just about to settle on an excellent site for a city. :mad: Sure my capital is not the greatest, but it has some good things about it.

Are we restarting from scratch?

Actually, to be honest, guys, I don't really feel like running the server anymore. It's a combination of the amount of work I have to do (last push for getting into colleges), the situation at my house (my parents are responsible for one of the server crashes), and the fact that I have a lot of games to play already atm. Lastly, and don't take this personally, I would have liked to have a few people I know from RL in the game, and they just flaked out.

I'm really glad you all participated, and I admired how all of you were so dedicated to playing the game fairly. I may come back someday to join or host a new pitboss game, but not for a while. When I do, I'll likely have a better server setup, too.

This thread is locked, then. I guess I can't do that. PM me if you still want to voice anything.