This idea started from another thread...(

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=275946&page=9 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=275946&page=9))

...where it was proposed to use the Vassalage + Pacifism combo. Now, I never tried this combo myself. And I've never finished a game with Tokugawa before, but I'm now up to the challenge.

The idea is to aim towards using a Vassalage + Pacifism combo with Tokugawa in particular. The reasons for choosing this combo are several:

1) Because Tokugawa lacks economic bonuses, having the +100% GPP bonus of Pacifism will be a big economic advantage.

2) Pacifism's only weakness is the extra +1 gold upkeep for military units. Taken in context, however, Pacifism begins with no upkeep apart from this extra upkeep for military units. In order to minimize the effect of this weakness, it is necessary to limit the size of one's army. This is a more realistic goal if you have the military bonuses of Tokugawa (Aggressive, Protective, and Samurai UU).

Because using Vassalage + Pacifism as Tokugawa hasn't been proved yet, it may take several tries before seeing this idea come to fruition.

The major challenge of this strategy is to consistently achieve military success while strictly controlling the size of the army. We can try to draw strength from the Protective trait through cheap walls and stronger archery units. Building Walls and Castles will be especially important when using Pacifism, in order to maintain a sufficient level of Power without incurring excessive upkeep costs from military units.

Garrison units will also need to be streamlined, and the number of garrison units used will need to take the free CG1 and D1 promotions into consideration.

Another major challenge is maximizing the free unit bonus of Vassalage. In order for this bonus to become significant, the total population of all cities under our control will need to be large enough. This probably means we need to achieve early expansion through an axe rush or other means. After this early expansion is achieved successfully, it will then be necessary to tech towards Philosophy and/or Feudalism to unlock Vassalage and Pacifism.

The current skill level is Emperor, with Normal game speed, as in the Alexander game in the original Leveraging Vassalage thread.

Feel free to discuss this strategy, or how I could possibly change/improve it!

i just feel that with tokugawa nationalism is so powerful: you can draft protective aggressive riflemen (or samurai if you get there early enough). this isn't really a comment on your strategy (it might work brilliantly) but i just love that kind of combination.

i guess though this is more of a challenge than a strategy. good luck

AFAIK, vassalage free upkeep and pacifism free upkeep are two different numbers, and do not have synergy.

The point is that the free units of Vassalage somewhat mitigate the extra cost of units under Pacifism (though the costs are based on different things, they both relate to the number of units you have), and the No Upkeep and High Upkeep balance each other out to an extent, leaving you with more highly promoted units and more rapid Great People production. I'm interested to see how it actually works out.

can be a good idea, but this strategy is not really 'leveraging' toku (as someone pointed out, when you got the UBER gunpowder units, you dont want to control the size af the army, you want to spam the world with them)

any protective leader would fit as well as he does, I think sitting bull can fit even better :
SB bows can be upgraded for all the game, and they are better in garnison than toku rifles (and since the bows are better, you even need fewer of them)

with philosophical you will be able to run 2 or 3 golden ages.

Tokugawa is good for a baseline reading because there are no economic traits to skew things one way or another.

can be a good idea, but this strategy is not really 'leveraging' toku (as someone pointed out, when you got the UBER gunpowder units, you dont want to control the size af the army, you want to spam the world with them)

any protective leader would fit as well as he does, I think sitting bull can fit even better :
SB bows can be upgraded for all the game, and they are better in garnison than toku rifles (and since the bows are better, you even need fewer of them)

with philosophical you will be able to run 2 or 3 golden ages.

:agree: This is particularly true since Feudalism, the tech that enables Vassalage, also unlocks longbows. Also, for concept reasons, I can see Sitting Bull using Pacifism and Vassalage together.

The other issue I have with your concept is the abandonment of Bureaucracy, which pairs with Pacifism much better than Vassalage.

Tokugawa can't afford to REX.

When a Samurai sheathes his katana, he often does so because he knows that the job is already done before either making another swing or even merely taking another look at his opponent...

...that is the theory behind the Vassalage + Pacifism strategy with Tokugawa.

Tokugawa can't afford to REX.

He can research pottery instantly...

Also, map terrain can allow ANYBODY to REX.

:agree: This is particularly true since Feudalism, the tech that enables Vassalage, also unlocks longbows. Also, for concept reasons, I can see Sitting Bull using Pacifism and Vassalage together.

The other issue I have with your concept is the abandonment of Bureaucracy, which pairs with Pacifism much better than Vassalage.


Sitting Bull has built-in economic bonuses from Philosophical, so there's a lot of freedom to make different kinds of choices and still maintain a strong economy.

Tokugawa, on the other hand, is notorious for his lack of economic bonuses. This strategy is an attempt to give him a helping hand economy-wise.

As for using Bureaucracy or Vassalage, I assure you that I will definitely use Bureaucracy the next time I play a Financial leader, such as Hannibal. However, using Bureaucracy + Pacifism loses the +2 XP of Vassalage, which can be valuable especially when going for CR promotions (Aggressive gives you free C1 but doesn't make you closer to the next CR).

I'd say Toku is better at drafting than any other leader. He's got three really good units to draft, his musket, rifle and infantry. By all means use Vassalage and Pacifism to get to Liberalism first and take Nationalism. But then once you have Nationhood and Theocracy it's time to draft and stay drafting (every 10 turns in most cities) until the game is over.

I find it hard to imagine that Vasslage will compete with Nationhood in the middle game, and Pacifism begins to run out of steam after a few GPs have been produced. Toku works well with a mixed economy of cottages and specialists. His troops are so good that he doesn't need a technological advantage; just parity and good production, which comes from farms and whipping and drafting from smallish cities.

I'd say Toku is better at drafting than any other leader. He's got three really good units to draft, his musket, rifle and infantry. By all means use Vassalage and Pacifism to get to Liberalism first and take Nationalism. But then once you have Nationhood and Theocracy it's time to draft and stay drafting (every 10 turns in most cities) until the game is over.



That is certainly the intended goal of using Vassalage + Pacifism...so we can win the Liberalism race and be strong enough technologically to even build Musketmen, Riflemen, or Infantry.

But before we get there, however, I think we'll be relying heavily on the Samurai to carry us through the Pacifism years. We will also be relying on the Longbowman, obviously, on the defensive front.

I'm wondering whether some part of the tech tree can be ignored temporarily, in order to speed up teching towards Philosophy and Feudalism.

Toko's ability to research pottery from the beginning lays a strong base for CE. His UU is unlocked with CS (and Machinery). Bureaucracy +Theocracy is much stronger than Vassalage+Pac in a CE. And as Uncle JJ points out Nationhood is preferable to both once gunpowder units arrive on the scene. If you start with stone in the BFC or the 2nd city for the mids, then an SE might be feasible. One of the drawbacks to an SE is the lack of freedom in goverment civics. Leaving representation seriously crimps your research rate. And HR is extremely powerful for dealing with WW.

Chopping walls (especially with stone) makes it very viable to REX. You can easily power to monarchy or more off of one or two cities' forests.

Toko's ability to research pottery from the beginning lays a strong base for CE. His UU is unlocked with CS (and Machinery). Bureaucracy +Theocracy is much stronger than Vassalage+Pac in a CE. And as Uncle JJ points out Nationhood is preferable to both once gunpowder units arrive on the scene. If you start with stone in the BFC or the 2nd city for the mids, then an SE might be feasible. One of the drawbacks to an SE is the lack of freedom in goverment civics. Leaving representation seriously crimps your research rate. And HR is extremely powerful for dealing with WW.

With Tokugawa, I don't see any realistic chance of building the Pyramids to completion. So we will be running HR, most likely.

However, I think you are overlooking the potential of using some the extra GPs gained from Pacifism to do a few lightbulbs. Since Philosophy is directly on the path to Liberalism, I see a big savings there if we make Philosophy the first priority. These two factors should give us a good chance of winning the Liberalism race.

Most likely, we will be running a hybrid economy with at least 3 cottages in the capital, and other cities as well.

As for the Samurai, I see it competing with the Mustketman, so I think there will be no hurry to switch to Nationhood until Riflemen become available. We may get delayed access to the Samurai early on, but we can extend its window of usefulness into the gunpowder age.

I checked the 1000 AD save of the recent Alexander game, to compare the upkeep costs of the different civics.

At that year, Organized Religion had an upkeep cost of 14 gold, and the army size was approximately 30 units. This means that using Pacifism at that point would have added an extra 30 gold in upkeep, which is 16 more than OR. A lot of that can be eliminated by deleting some old Archer units. Also, I used a very high number of axemen in that game.

I think we can go slightly higher than the upkeep cost of OR, in terms of total military units. The reason I think we can go a little higher is that we save gold on normal unit upkeep by having a smaller army than normal.

For example, with 7 cities we might be able to use 24 military units total. They will be as follows:

7 stationary garrison units (CG3D1 Longbowmen)
3 mobile garrison units (CG1D3 Longbowmen)
8 main attack units (C1CR2D1 Samurai)
3 siege bombard units (CR1A Catapults)
3 siege attack units (CR2 Catapults)

Of course, we can expect many casualties on our side, but this is necessary in order to keep unit upkeep costs down. The main goal is to have a subset of our army steadily gain XP, while other units die.

Ideally, the siege attack units and stationary garrison units should take the most casualties, while the main attack units should take the least casualties. But there will be exceptions, of course.

An alternative promotion for the siege attack units is Barrage. For the first try, however, I might keep it simple and use CR.

Vassalage's free units is mitigated by its high upkeep unless you have a very small amount of very high pop cities, I'm led to believe.

Vassalage's free units is mitigated by its high upkeep unless you have a very small amount of very high pop cities, I'm led to believe.

Yes, we shouldn't expect much from this bonus in the early stage of the game. The main reason of having it is the +2 XP bonus.

Even though our army size will be limited by Pacifism, we will get a lot of casualties in battle, due to the small size of our army. Hopefully, these casualties will occur primarily to the "green" units with only 5 XP. On a positive note, the casualties we face in battle will serve to control our army size, and hence, upkeep costs.

anyone ever tried running an economy with tokugawa? it is painfully slow work. unless you grab the pyramids or the GLh, it takes ages to research anything. my (few) good experiences with him have come from teching (slowly) to gunpowder and nationalism and then not stopping warring until the world bows before me.

So I started playing the first game. Depending on how this game turns out, I may play a few more games using the same concept, but different map.


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%207/settings.jpg

The start was coastal, which played right into Japan's starting tech of Fishing:


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%207/map1_4000bc.jpg


With Fishing and The Wheel as Japan's free starting techs, I began research with Agriculture, Mining, and Bronze Working.

A source of Copper was found nearby, not too far from the capital...

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%207/map1_2440bc.jpg



It was settled as Japan's 2nd city so we could get early access to Copper. With Japan's starting techs, this can be a useful thing if we want to temporarily delay Hunting and Archery. Hunting won't have much economic benefit in this game, as there are no appropriate tiles in site.


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%207/map1_2200bc.jpg


We also met our first neighbor, Shaka, who was separated from us by jungle. It's obvious, however, that his edge of the jungle has some juicy resources that we might want to deny him.


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%207/map2_2200bc.jpg



After losing a Warrior stationed near those resources, we carefully advanced a new Settler, escorted by an Axeman, towards that site.


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%207/map1_1440bc.jpg


Our 4th city was settled on a plains hill NE of the capital. With one remote city already settled, I didn't want to push the envelope any further with maintenance costs, at least until we get Code of Laws.


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%207/map1_1160bc.jpg


With two Warriors already killed by barbarians, our military was getting very thin. But our newly produced Axemen, boosted by the free C1 promotion, took the military burden entirely on their shoulders...


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%207/map1_975bc.jpg


Meanwhile, we continued research with Mysticism, Pottery, Animal Husbandry, Writing, Meditation, and Priesthood.

With the science slider now stabilizing at 40%, I see 3 different choices we can take as the next tech: Hunting (followed by Archery), Iron Working, and Masonry.

With Hunting+Archery, we can build some Archers with free CG1+D1 promotions to protect our cities. With Iron Working, we can clear some jungle and maybe discover some Iron. And with Masonry, we can build some Walls to boost our power rating and protect our cities.

I played on for some time but then fell behind...

In order for the strategy to work, you need to get both Feudalism and Philosophy, which is in itself not an easy task.

So I might try a new map...we'll see.

Try a CE. Toko is not a great leader for an SE

under vassalage + pacifism, serfdom can be considered since it allows you to have some less workers, and therefore some more units.

Try a CE. Toko is not a great leader for an SE

I think using a CE to tech towards Philosophy or Feudalism sounds like a good idea, but the point of having Pacifism+Vassalage is to have faster generation of great people using specialists (mostly from libraries).

Once I have, say, 4 cottages (or other high-commerce tiles) on average per city, I'm estimating those cottages could fuel research towards Philosophy. Perhaps the capital alone can run specialists until that point, so that I can bulb Philosophy.

Then, once I get Philosophy, hopefully I can trade it for Feudalism. I can then begin to use more specialists in each city, and thus utilize the Pacifism bonus.

I think a HE works best for Toku in most games. That means a few cottages spread about if there's no other source of commerce. A full blown CE requires Free Speech to be worthwhile and that conflicts directly with Vasslage. In some cities you'll want to use farms rather than cottages either to provide extra food for :whipped: or to run another specialist or two with Pacifism, so again cottages conflict with the need for more farms. Generally the number of cottages should be kept small and just enough to keep the economy afloat during trying times. If you have the choice a farm is preferable.

When I play Toku I emphasise espionage and use that to steal a few techs and to see what my intended targets are doing and maybe what they have inside their cities. The fact that Toku is behind in techs isn't that important as he can win wars with the same technology relying on quality plus quantity from better production (using Slavery early on fuelled by farms). But of course I do use Nationhood as soon as it's available :p and the +25% EPs is a useful bonus. Once Toku gets to Constitution the combination of jails and spy specialists under Representation and Nationhood is quite powerful and taken together slow self research, plus trading some techs and stealling others works well. However in this case the espionage and normal research strategy is a lot less attractive with Vassalage. So it doesn't quite all fit together with Toku, Vasslage and Pacifism :(

under vassalage + pacifism, serfdom can be considered since it allows you to have some less workers, and therefore some more units.

It's worth trying. I think the lower upkeep of serfdom along with the lower maintenance from fewer Workers can provide a bit more breathing room for upkeep.

But I'd definitely want to have Slavery for whipping courthouses and maybe a few markets before the switch to Serfdom is made.

I think a HE works best for Toku in most games. That means a few cottages spread about if there's no other source of commerce. A full blown CE requires Free Speech to be worthwhile and that conflicts directly with Vasslage. In some cities you'll want to use farms rather than cottages either to provide extra food for :whipped: or to run another specialist or two with Pacifism, so again cottages conflict with the need for more farms. Generally the number of cottages should be kept small and just enough to keep the economy afloat during trying times. If you have the choice a farm is preferable.

When I play Toku I emphasise espionage and use that to steal a few techs and to see what my intended targets are doing and maybe what they have inside their cities. The fact that Toku is behind in techs isn't that important as he can win wars with the same technology relying on quality plus quantity from better production (using Slavery early on fuelled by farms). But of course I do use Nationhood as soon as it's available :p and the +25% EPs is a useful bonus. Once Toku gets to Constitution the combination of jails and spy specialists under Representation and Nationhood is quite powerful and taken together slow self research, plus trading some techs and stealling others works well. However in this case the espionage and normal research strategy is a lot less attractive with Vassalage. So it doesn't quite all fit together with Toku, Vasslage and Pacifism :(
HE and espionnage looks incompatible to me ^^ (you cant build espionnage)

@artichoker : serfdom comes with feodalism, therefore you should use slavery at least until feadalism (and on normal speed you can only switch 2 civic at a time if you want to keep only 1 anarchy turn, so it will need 2 moves to go to vassalage / pacifism / serfdom )

HE and espionnage looks incompatible to me ^^ (you cant build espionnage)


HE = Hybrid Economy for me, not Hammer Economy.

I think a HE works best for Toku in most games. That means a few cottages spread about if there's no other source of commerce. A full blown CE requires Free Speech to be worthwhile and that conflicts directly with Vasslage. In some cities you'll want to use farms rather than cottages either to provide extra food for :whipped: or to run another specialist or two with Pacifism, so again cottages conflict with the need for more farms. Generally the number of cottages should be kept small and just enough to keep the economy afloat during trying times. If you have the choice a farm is preferable.


I'm open to a transition from Vassalage to Free Speech, which would especially be useful with Pacifism for a cultural victory. In this case, using a CE under Vassalage wouldn't be out of the question.

But I agree, a hybrid economy with cottages and farms should work best. Early development of a few cottages seems to be the best compromise, and specialists can be used more once Pacifism is adopted.


When I play Toku I emphasise espionage and use that to steal a few techs and to see what my intended targets are doing and maybe what they have inside their cities. The fact that Toku is behind in techs isn't that important as he can win wars with the same technology relying on quality plus quantity from better production (using Slavery early on fuelled by farms). But of course I do use Nationhood as soon as it's available :p and the +25% EPs is a useful bonus. Once Toku gets to Constitution the combination of jails and spy specialists under Representation and Nationhood is quite powerful and taken together slow self research, plus trading some techs and stealling others works well. However in this case the espionage and normal research strategy is a lot less attractive with Vassalage. So it doesn't quite all fit together with Toku, Vasslage and Pacifism :(

I think the plan in these games will be to use Nationhood at some time, and that time will come when drafting is needed to prepare for war. The transition from Vassalage to Nationhood is similar to the transition from Bureaucracy to Nationhood in that they come at approximately the same time.

However, I might want to try leveraging the Samurai for a bit longer than I would with just Macemen. In that case, it becomes an alternative to the Musketman for building up an army, especially considering the ability to gain CR promotions.

As I understand, both Musketmen and Riflemen each cost 1 pop to draft. So if an optimal hammer/food ratio is desired, it's probably best to go for Riflemen.

@artichoker : serfdom comes with feodalism, therefore you should use slavery at least until feadalism (and on normal speed you can only switch 2 civic at a time if you want to keep only 1 anarchy turn, so it will need 2 moves to go to vassalage / pacifism / serfdom )

At this stage of the game, there will be 4 civics switches:

Hereditary Rule
Vassalage
Serfdom
Pacifism

So the way to minimize anarchy would be to take 2 civic switches at a time, and do the other 2 later.

My guess is that Hereditary Rule and Vassalage should be adopted before Serfdom and Pacifism. Delaying the Serfdom switch allows you to stay in Slavery a bit longer, possibly allowing you to whip courthouses and markets.
And delaying the Pacifism switch allows you to make new Longbowmen (and other medieval units) while under Vassalage, allowing you to strengthen your existing army in preparation for the downsizing that is expected to occur after adopting Pacifism.

Toko's strength is in his military. By making that side trip for philosophy you fall behind in military techs. You need to research exactly ONE tech for a CE when playing toko. After that it's war war war. Vassalage/Theocracy 7xp out of the box plus free promos. Toko is one of my favorite leaders. The reason people have such a hard time playing him is because they try and derive complex economic plans. Build units, kill stuff. You just need to stay focused. No wonders. Troops and lots of them.

My guess is that Hereditary Rule and Vassalage should be adopted before Serfdom and Pacifism. Delaying the Serfdom switch allows you to stay in Slavery a bit longer, possibly allowing you to whip courthouses and markets.
And delaying the Pacifism switch allows you to make new Longbowmen (and other medieval units) while under Vassalage, allowing you to strengthen your existing army in preparation for the downsizing that is expected to occur after adopting Pacifism.
just an idea : the point is to use the pacifism to get some eco boost. yet it is obvious that post nationalism you will want to draft units.
i think the earlier you get pacifism the better, so why not trying to get the Paya ? it would save you many 'useless' tech (aesthetics, drama and philo) and allow you to switch to pacifism earlier in the game.

so you would be able to go to HR/pacifism first and then vasselage/serfdom when you reach feodalism.

Toko's strength is in his military. By making that side trip for philosophy you fall behind in military techs. You need to research exactly ONE tech for a CE when playing toko. After that it's war war war. Vassalage/Theocracy 7xp out of the box plus free promos. Toko is one of my favorite leaders. The reason people have such a hard time playing him is because they try and derive complex economic plans. Build units, kill stuff. You just need to stay focused. No wonders. Troops and lots of them.

Philosophy is not really a side trip. It has optional prerequisites...and Code of Laws is the quick way (relatively speaking) to get it. Because that's such an essential tech, it's really just a matter of spending a GS to bulb Philosophy once you have Code of Laws.

just an idea : the point is to use the pacifism to get some eco boost. yet it is obvious that post nationalism you will want to draft units.
i think the earlier you get pacifism the better, so why not trying to get the Paya ? it would save you many 'useless' tech (aesthetics, drama and philo) and allow you to switch to pacifism earlier in the game.

so you would be able to go to HR/pacifism first and then vasselage/serfdom when you reach feodalism.


Your idea seems good provided that you are very confident your military is strong enough before you get to Feudalism. For example, if you had an isolated start, it would make sense to go for early Pacifism.

As I wrote in the previous post, however, Philosophy has optional prerequisities, and using Code of Laws to get there seems to be the best way.

It would really depend on how safe you are from your neighbors. If you're very safe (for example, if you're in isolation) then early Pacifism sounds like a good plan. If you are close to several rival empires, however, it might be wiser to go for Vassalage first because of the military benefits it provides (you get +2 XP and also unlock the Longbowman).

just an idea : the point is to use the pacifism to get some eco boost. yet it is obvious that post nationalism you will want to draft units.
i think the earlier you get pacifism the better, so why not trying to get the Paya ? it would save you many 'useless' tech (aesthetics, drama and philo) and allow you to switch to pacifism earlier in the game.

so you would be able to go to HR/pacifism first and then vasselage/serfdom when you reach feodalism.

Isn't Paya enabled by aesthetics?

Isn't Paya enabled by aesthetics?

youre right... since I often research aesthetic early and rarely build wonders I always thought only meditation was required :D

So I started another game with a new map.

It seems that this time around, terrain and diplomacy are slightly in my favor, even though I'm in the middle. Much of the terrain nearby is desert, but the numerous flood plains more than make up for that.

I'm uploading the screenshots right now and will give an update shortly.

In this game, Mansa Musa is to the north behind a jungle and Genghis Khan is directly to the south.

As you can see in the tech screen below, Mansa Musa is slightly ahead in tech, as expected, although we have Mathematics. On the other hand, Genghis Khan has put all of his research into military, going for Horseback Riding and Construction while neglecting Mysticism.



http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%208/techs_200bc.jpg



Order of technology acquisition was:

Wheel (free)
Fishing (free)
Agriculture
Pottery
Hunting
Mining
Mysticism
Bronze Working
Archery
Animal Husbandry
Writing
Masonry
Iron Working
Meditation
Priesthood
Alphabet
Monarchy (traded w/Mansa Musa for Alphabet+Meditation)
Sailing
Mathematics
Currency



http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%208/map1_200bc.jpg


As you can see, there's a lot of useless desert on this map, but our two southern cities were able to achieve rapid growth and commerce thanks to the flood plains nearby.

We have a source of Iron near Tokyo, our southernmost city, and another undeveloped source near Satsuma, our easternmost city. There are also several hills near our two southern cities, providing the basis for solid production.




http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%208/map2_200bc.jpg


In the capital, we have a good balance of growth, commerce, and production. There's a spot 1 NW of the corn on the edge of the jungle to the north that we will be settling shortly.

Judaism has been spread to us by Mansa Musa, and it's now our state religion.
If we can tech to Feudalism without any problems, we will be in good position to do long-term tech trading with him.



Several turns later at 50BC, Genghis Khan's forces are already massing near our borders. He hasn't declared war on us, but his strategy up to this point has clearly been geared for war.

Fortunately, we have several Spearmen and Archers in our two southern cities, with Walls and 50% culture to boost their defense. It looks like we will be using those high production tiles heavily in the next several turns.


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%208/map1_50bc.jpg


If Genghis Khan declares war on us, he will be in for a bloody battle against our Protective-boosted Archers and Aggressive-boosted Spearmen, not to mention our heavy fortifications.

If he doesn't, then his backward tech position will easily allow us to tech to Feudalism before he does, enabling us to go on the offensive with 5 XP military units and Longbowmen for defense.


The screenshots from 200 BC to 50 BC show our score taking a slight dip, but I think this will change after we settle our new city to the northeast in the next few turns.

We made it through a crucial phase of development from 50 BC to 600 AD. Genghis Khan's horde of Keshiks crossed the border, but there was no declaration of war. Instead, he demanded tribute, exactly in the amount of the Mysticism tech. I paid it in full, in exchange for a 10 turn peace treaty. Meanwhile, as his force of 8 units moved northward, it became increasingly obvious what his true intentions were...


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%208/map1_325ad.jpg


I had already sold Mathematics to Mansa Musa for 240 gold after asking 120 gold from him as a friend. After trading Currency for Code of Laws, we now raced to Feudalism at 80% science. The move paid off, as were able to gain Metal Casting and Aesthetics from Mansa Musa for Feudalism + 140 gold.

Then I switched to Hereditary Rule and Vassalage, on the same turn that I made the Feudalism trade with Mansa.

That was in the year 450 AD, almost 300 years earlier than in the Alexander game. Clearly, it helps to have a good tech trading partner in this phase of the game.

I then continued with Calendar, hoping to develop a few high-commerce tiles in Japanese territory. A few turns later, our first GS came out, which I used to bulb Philosophy, immediately founding Taoism.

I then looked at the expense sheet and decided the time wasn't yet ripe to switch to Pacifism, since we will need more military units if we want to knock out Genghis. That's OK...if we make the switch at 1000 AD I think it will still be worthwhile.

At 1 turn before finishing Calendar, here's the diplomacy screen:


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%208/diplo_600ad.jpg

And some maps of our territory...


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%208/map1_600ad.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%208/map2_600ad.jpg


After the workers are done developing the 2 Gem tiles and our Calendar resources (3 Dye + 2 Silk), it's time to send out a Settler to found our 6th city. I think I'll put it near the northern edge of the jungle, a few tiles away from Mansa's borders.

From 600 AD to 940 AD, we made judicious use of the whip in our 4 biggest cities to create an army to knock out Genghis. He and Mansa Musa were fighting an extended war, when finally I was persuaded to jump in.

It wasn't exactly according to my own timetable, but I felt the need to help a friend in danger. Genghis quickly deployed his Keshiks to bravely invade Tokyo's borders...

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%208/war1_800ad.jpg


As they say, the bigger they are, the harder they fall.

Meanwhile, the city we tried to found to the north was already founded by Mansa Musa, just several turns after the original city was razed...

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%208/map1_800ad.jpg


So I took the low-maintenance alternative of founding a city much closer to the capital, but claiming the coast. You will see this city in the 940 AD map. I'm thinking that this city can become the Moai Statues city.

In 840 AD, our forces began to establish a foothold on the outskirts of Genghis Khan's closest city, Turfan.


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%208/war1_840ad.jpg


It would take a few more turns for the newly-built Catapults to arrive at the battle scene.

In that same year, I took the opportunity to make my most profitable trade yet with Mansa...


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%208/trade1_840ad.jpg


This had the perfect timing of happening right when we were researching Civil Service, which brings us to the military unit we've all been waiting for...


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%208/map2_940ad.jpg


I don't see any chance of Genghis Khan surviving this upcoming attack, unless he has amazing combat rolls.

The low-maintenance city I mentioned in the other post is called Nara, situated on our western coast and only 3 tiles away from Kyoto. It's our best candidate for the Moai Statues, with 9 water tiles.


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%208/map1_940ad.jpg



A quick look at Genghis Khan's garrison troops shows that he is not ready to give up his city just yet...


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%208/war1_940ad.jpg


For the sake of building up the drama (and also for saving a few lives), I think I'll wait for the Samurai to come out before ordering the attack.


The tech screen shows that we are on an even keel with Mansa Musa technologically, even without having his economic bonuses...


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%208/techs_940ad.jpg



After burning our first GS to do a Philosophy bulb, I pulled all of our specialists to run a full CE, supplemented by lots of high-production tiles for war production.

My reasoning behind pulling the specialists was that by holding back our second Great Person, the advantage we gain later by adopting Pacifism will be greater because of the relatively cheaper cost of getting the next GP.

Besides, the extra tiles we work instead of running a specialist will directly contribute to immediate production for the war effort.


As I said earlier, 1000 AD is the target year for switching to Pacifism. I think it's actually time when our forces cruch Genghis Khan's forces. It will be sometime between the capture of this first city and the capture of the Mongolian capital.

At that time, we can disband the unneeded military units, such as level 2 Archers and Spearmen.

the problem with toku is his lack of an early game economy. if you start on the coast, the GLH can help a lot. if you start inland with a commerce capital early monarchy and CS is really valuable--more valuable, and picking up CoL on the way, than vassalage imo. bureaucracy can really help drive your economy.

some of my toughest games with Toku have been when I get a production capital. i think in those cases you're better off spamming wonders a la obsolete than going on a war rampage. warring before currency/col with Toku can be disastrous imo.

the problem with toku is his lack of an early game economy. if you start on the coast, the GLH can help a lot. if you start inland with a commerce capital early monarchy and CS is really valuable--more valuable, and picking up CoL on the way, than vassalage imo. bureaucracy can really help drive your economy.

some of my toughest games with Toku have been when I get a production capital. i think in those cases you're better off spamming wonders a la obsolete than going on a war rampage. warring before currency/col with Toku can be disastrous imo.

Production capitals call for getting a settler out ASAP to found a commerce city.

A little late, but there was a discussion on this before. Here's the link (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=240340&highlight=vassalage).

Might be helpful.

A little late, but there was a discussion on this before. Here's the link (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=240340&highlight=vassalage).

Might be helpful.

Thanks for the link.


I think the real key to getting the most out of Vassalage + Pacifism will be troop management. It basically comes down to the timing of when you make the switch to Pacifism.

Even when you're fighting a war, the state of the war at some point may allow you to disband some units without risking your safety. Even better is when you sacrifice some weak units in an attack to kill or weaken enemy units. In that case, those units have served their purpose, but no longer become an economic burden thereafter...

For the record, the tech path up to now is:


Wheel (free)
Fishing (free)
Agriculture
Pottery
Hunting
Mining
Mysticism
Bronze Working
Archery
Animal Husbandry
Writing
Masonry
Iron Working
Meditation
Priesthood
Alphabet
Monarchy (trade w/Mansa Musa for Alphabet + Meditation)
Sailing
Mathematics

Currency
Code of Laws (trade w/Mansa Musa for Currency)
Polytheism
Feudalism
Metal Casting, Aesthetics (trade w/Mansa Musa for Feudalism + 140 gold)
Philosophy (bulb with GS)
Calendar


Construction
Literature (trade w/Mansa Musa +50 gold for Construction)
Machinery (trade w/Mansa Musa for Philosophy)
Civil Service


Interestingly, both Monotheism and Theology are missing from this tech path. This is because with my specific game plan in mind, I know beforehand that I won't be using the civics enabled by these two techs, nor building wonders. It's definitely something to keep in mind when weighing between Bureaucracy+Theocracy and Vassalage.

this is more like hedging than leverage.

The power of 2 samurai was all the boost we needed to cut through Genghis Khan's determined defense...


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%209/war1_1040ad.jpg


...and it proved to be just enough to do the job.


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%209/war1_1050ad.jpg


with the small army approach to warring, it took two turns of attacking to conquer the city.


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%209/war2_1050ad.jpg


The second and third target cities were taken with a limited supply of catapults, requiring an extended period of bombardment to take down city defenses.


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%209/war1_1140ad.jpg


But our new samurai reinforcements tilted the outcome inevitably in our favor...


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%209/war1_1170ad.jpg


...and then we were finally ready to make the switch to Pacifism while downsizing our forces.

Before the switch to Pacifism, we had 38 military units, and 7 non-military units.


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%209/military_1170ad_A.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%209/expenses_1170ad_A.jpg


Total upkeep from units was 8 gold and civic upkeep was 44 gold. (these numbers are pre-inflation).

After switching to Pacifism, but before downsizing the military, our upkeep costs soared temporarily...


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%209/military_1180ad_B.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%209/expenses_1180ad_B.jpg


Upkeep from units was 32 gold and civic upkeep was 33 gold...for a net gain of 13 gold in upkeep, even including the lower cost of Serfdom!


The military was then downsized to reduce costs...


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%209/military_1180ad_C.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%209/expenses_1180ad_C.jpg


Five archers and one chariot were disbanded from the army.

Unit upkeep was therefore reduced to 22 gold while civic upkeep remained at 33 gold...compared to the pre-Pacifism numbers, this was a net gain of 3. Remember, however, that our religion civic was still Paganism, so this is still much cheaper than Organized Religion, or even Theocracy.

With the military scaled down, it was still much stronger than Genghis Khan's forces, after being decimated of course.


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%209/war1_1240ad.jpg


We had achieved the magic number of 7 samurai.

Since the rest was just mop-up work, our tech efforts were focused on winning the Liberalism race...


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%209/war1_1280ad.jpg


With 1 turn left to go for Liberalism, and the prize still unclaimed, we now had to decide which tech to grab as the free tech from Liberalism.


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%209/war1_1350ad.jpg


I took Printing Press, because it would help me tech towards Rifling.

Meanwhile, I signed a peace treaty with Genghis to grab Horseback Riding.

The war contined 10 turns later, however...


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%209/war1_1490ad.jpg


Mansa Musa remains a friend, but it may not be in Japan's best interest to keep him as such...

Why is there a sunbtraction labeled "handicap cost". I have no idea what that is.

Why is there a sunbtraction labeled "handicap cost". I have no idea what that is.


I'm trying to figure that out as well.

From what I can gather, it's a variable number that increases with the non-discounted upkeep.

First, the non-discounted upkeep is computed from 2 components:

1) the basic unit cost

2) the Pacifism military unit cost

Then, after 1) and 2) are added together, the handicap cost (really a discount) is then subtracted from the sum to get the total unit upkeep.

For the 3 sets of data we have from the screenshots, the numbers are summarized as follows:


basic cost pacifism cost discount
11 0 -3
11 29 -8
5 23 -6


I wouldn't be surprised if the discount also depends on difficulty level.

Even with the extra tech from Liberalism, we had stiff competition in tech research. Mansa Musa was the first to make contact with the other continent, so he gained a tech advantage from the resulting tech trades.

Despite this, Tokugawa's military bonuses were ready to be activated at full throttle, as we raced towards Rifling.

To supplement our tech advance, I sent a caravel to meet the other civs myself and made some profitable trades...


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%209/trade2.jpg



The +100% GPP bonus from Pacifism proved to be useful toward giving us a handful of great people, including 3 great scientists, 2 great merchants, and 1 great prophet.
1 great scientist was used to build an Academy in Kyoto, and our last great person, the great prophet, was used to start a Golden Age. The remaining 2 great scientists and 2 great merchants were settled. In addition, as a result of capturing the Mongolian capital, we also gained an Academy, 1 settled great scientist, and 2 settled great generals.


Now that we had Nationalism and Theology, as well as Constitution, all the gears were in place to make a switch to Representation, Nationhood, Slavery, and Theocracy, while keeping Mercantilism, and utilizing the no-Anarchy of the Golden Age we had just started.


As you can see in these screenshots, we have been producing quite a few Samurai up to this point. With their free Combat and Drill promotions, they can gain CR1 and CR2 before being upgraded to Riflemen. This cannot be said of newly produced Musketmen or Riflemen, however.


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%209/map1_1675ad.jpg



After recently gaining Constitution through trade, we've taken the opportunity to build Jails in several cities. The switch to Representation on the next turn proved to be a major improvement to our research power.


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%209/map1_1680ad.jpg




With Steam Power and Assembly Line as the only techs between Mansa Musa and Infantry, we will have to act fast with our military buildup, and use drafting to speed up the process. Fortunately, the 2 GGs we captured from Genghis should improve our buildup efficiency a bit. Also, since Mansa Musa is now researching Scientific Method, his choices for the next tech will be many, thus decreasing (hopefully) the chance that he will research Steam Power and Assembly Line.

I traded Military Tradition to Mansa for Chemistry, keeping in mind that he has no Horses for cavalry. This allowed me to switch research to Steel, giving my trebuchets an opportunity to upgrade to cannons sooner.

He can research pottery instantly...

Also, map terrain can allow ANYBODY to REX.

But can he build a worker instantly?

The tech-happy Mansa Musa was intent on using Scientific Method as a springboard to research technologies that gave free prizes to the first one to get there -- Communism for the Great Spy, and Physics for the Great Scientist. All of this while Japanese forces waited for the right moment to pounce.

Intelligence indicated a good 8 turns for Mansa to research Communism, even with his high-powered economy... giving us the cruical window of time to research Steel, with a hefty gold surplus. When intelligence again indicated that his next tech was to be Physics, requiring 9 turns, the time couldn't have been riper for an invasion with Riflemen and Cannons...


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2010/map1_1735ad.jpg


With 3 cannons armed with the Accuracy promotion, Mansa's 60% culture cities were taken down with just these 3 cannons. The remaining cannons were kept as reserve, as our CR3 Riflemen had excellent odds by virtue of their own ability.


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2010/war1_1745ad.jpg


TORA! TORA! TORA!

Although this wasn't a naval attack like Pearl Harbor, it achieved an element of surprise on the same level or greater!
Who says you can't bite the hand that feeds you!!!? Now you tell me whether that is more American or Japanese!


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2010/war1_1760ad.jpg


Mansa's defensive effort was too little, and too late.

I had to stop here, because of the intricate micromanagement of warfare.


But I do have one more comment...seeing espionage reports of Mansa's cities switching their production to Riflemen is the best indication of the desperation he's facing now...so much for the free Great Merchant, Great Spy, and Great Scientist!

After taking the 1st main objective, our army split into two parts to speed up the conquest of cities.


The primary stack faced some modest resistance before taking Mansa's capital.
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2011/war1_1790ad.jpg


...while the secondary stack handled the cities on the opposite side of the previous objective.
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2011/war1a_1790ad.jpg



After a brief period of rest and reinforcement, we attacked the next two objectives...

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2011/war1_1806ad.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2011/war1_1808ad.jpg


The Grassland Hills tile underneath this city was one of the few challenges faced in this war...
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2011/war1a_1808ad.jpg
...if you can call that a challenge, that is.



As I realized later on, the real prize of the war was this pair of cities on the far side of Mansa's territory.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2011/war1_1828ad.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2011/war1_1836ad.jpg


...which were, together, home to the shrines of three established religions: Judaism, Confucianism, and Christianity.

After a peace treaty with Mansa Musa was signed, there was a brief period of coexistence of the Malinese and Japanese empires. We used this to help our newly conquered cities recover from the heavy whipping we applied to them, out of necessity.



http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2012/map1_1850ad.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2012/map2_1850ad.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2012/map3_1850ad.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2012/map4_1850ad.jpg


And then the peace was inevitably broken.
Stalin fired the first shot, but then I stole his thunder...


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2012/war1_1868ad.jpg



As a result, the worst enemy of both Stalin and Brennus was destroyed. However, by "process of elimination",
their anger had to be taken out against someone...


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2012/log1_1870ad.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2012/war1_1870ad.jpg


If you notice in the second screenshot above, both of my Infantry are wounded...and that's even after claiming their new promotions.
It goes to show how tough battle can be against 15 attackers, even for a pair of CG3 Infantry!


In one fell swoop, Brennus's entire invasion force was decimated by that one defensive stand, on the first turn of the war. Stalin's forces were eliminated in similar fashion by a group of 2 Infantry and 1 Riflemen, but that battle was not as spectacular since Stalin's forces were outdated (he had mostly Catapults).

The religious shrines gained from Mansa are lucrative, but not as lucrative as our home-grown Wall Street city...

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2012/djenne_1878ad.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2012/kumbi_1878ad.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2012/tokyo_1878ad.jpg



Our HE city has West Point and 1 settled GG, along with a Military Academy...while our Ironworks city has 3 settled GGs (2 of them gained from Genghis), but is waiting to establish a Military Academy. Both cities are producing level 4 units for the upcoming invasion.


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2012/satsuma_1878ad.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2012/karakorum_1878ad.jpg



With Industrialism waiting to be finished, we will be soon be switching to mass production of Marines.

I decided it was time to give Brennus a taste of his own medicine...a "slice of heaven", as he is all too familiar with.

Keeping the new 3.17 rules in mind, I assembled an invasion force that included a modest 18 Artillery, with the bulk of the forces being the Infantry I accumulated throughout the prior wars, reinforced by fresh production from my dual level 4 military production centers--which in total numbered 37. A small group of 11 Marines would be spearheading the single amphibious assault I would be executing. 6 Anti-Tank units would supplement the defense, and 5 Tanks would be supporting the offense. 2 Great Artists and 1 Medic III Knight joined as support units. The navy consisted of 9 Destroyers and 20 Transports. These ships would soon be joined by new Battleships, Carriers, and Destroyers.



http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2013/fleet1_1909ad.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2013/fleet1_1914ad.jpg



One lone Destroyer ventured forward after the DOW to assess the enemy position.


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2013/war1_1914ad.jpg



And then Brennus saw a slice of heaven on the horizon...


Can it really be that Artillery units cannot swim?

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2013/war2_1914ad.jpg

I guess so...

...but Marine units are a whole different matter...

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2013/war3_1914ad.jpg

There are marines, and there are MARINES!

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2013/war7_1914ad.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2013/log1_1914ad.jpg

With the beachead secured, the air units were now ready to join the war, and the main stack began its advance.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2013/war8_1914ad.jpg




Brennus's response was aided by backward brother Stalin, who insisted that Cossacks were the answer.



http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2013/log1_1915ad.jpg

7 Japanese units were lost in the initial onslaught, but they destroyed 23 Celtic units in return.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2013/log1_1917ad.jpg

The Russian response was a variation on Russian Roulette, but with a "loaded" barrel always set to hit...the aggressor, that is.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2013/log1_1918ad.jpg




After resting on a hill for a few turns, Japanese forces enjoyed the massaging healing of our one and only Medic III Knight...the master of Japanese Shiatsu.


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2013/war1_1920ad.jpg


And then it was time...for the Celtic forces to show what they were made of...



http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2013/log1_1919ad.jpg

...defeat.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2013/war1_1921ad.jpg




We found the Statue of Zeus in the newly captured city, so I thought it would be best to fortify this city even more securely than the first city we captured.

Handicap cost is a level dependant discount on units. On noble it is -50% on deity it is 0%. Not sure what it is at the other levels though... You should always count this when calculating cost of pacifism of course...

As the game draws ever nearer to a domination win, I think I'll take a few moments to make some observations in hindsight:


1)
In this game, it would have been safer to get Feudalism even sooner than was actually achieved. Fortunately, I avoided an early war by making a timely, inexpensive tribute to Genghis. I could have shaved off a few turns by delaying Polytheism and Sailing until Feudalism was in the bag. Mathematics and Currency could have been delayed as well; however, in this game I was fortunate to trade Currency for Code of Laws with Mansa.

Of these aforementioned techs, 2 of them (Polytheism and Sailing) can definitely be delayed until Feudalism, while Mathematics and Currency probably will depend on which techs are available for trade. In this game, I researched both Mathematics and Currency, and then obtained Code of Laws through trade w/Mansa Musa for Currency. Had I instead researched Code of Laws--and delayed Polytheism, Sailing, and Currency--I might have been able to finish research before Mansa. Then perhaps I might have been able to gain Mathematics in trade.

So the actual tech path that was taken:

Alphabet
Monarchy (trade w/Mansa Musa for Alphabet + Meditation)
Sailing
Mathematics
Currency
Code of Laws (trade w/Mansa Musa for Currency)
Polytheism
Feudalism

could have been altered to this:

Alphabet
Monarchy (trade w/Mansa Musa for Alphabet + Meditation)
Code of Laws
Feudalism
Sailing
Polytheism
Mathematics
Currency

This would have resulted in gaining Feudalism earlier, which would have allowed for an earlier switch to Hereditary Rule/Vassalage. It also would have unlocked Longbowmen sooner. The combination of these two factors would have allowed an earlier commencement of defensive buildup--in preparation for a transition to offense.



2)
The Philosophy bulb using the 1st GS was crucial in maintaining a technological edge during the military buildup, particularly in trading for Machinery (to unlock Samurai and Crossbowmen) or Civil Service (if Machinery had not been available for trade). If enough spare hammers (for missionaries) are available during peacetime, a Taoism shrine using a Great Prophet gained with Pacifism can help boost the economy. This is probably the one religion that can be reliably founded successfully.



3)
A non-Liberalism based tech path is a possible alternative, especially when a wholesale trade of Liberalism to Financial leaders is undesirable. In this game, Mansa Musa was that leader. He quickly adopted Free Speech and Free Religion after I traded Liberalism to him--turning him into a tech monster--but fortunately, I was in very good position to wipe him off the map before he could gain anything useful from it.




After the game is finally wrapped up, I think I'll try the same strategy using different map types besides Continents. I might consider Fractal or Pangaea as the next map type.

Well, there you have it...


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2014/win1_1930ad.jpg




Actually, it wasn't that simple. This win was done on a reload from 1917 AD, which was 3 turns before the Celtic city of Bibracte was taken. If you notice in the earlier screenshot, I was researching Plastics.

Well, it turns out that if I had kept playing from 1920 AD, Saladin would have won an Apostolic Palace victory. And being new to BTS, I neglected the danger that he could achieve such a victory despite my overwhelming position.

Bibracte was home to several wonders, and I took a closer look at each one of them. Besides the Statue of Zeus, I saw a few other wonders, including...lo and behold, the Apostolic Palace.

But merely capturing the Apostolic Palace wasn't enough to prevent Saladin from winning by the AP. So seeing the technicalities of this nitpicky rule (which goes beyond my imagination), I saw that the AP is made obsolete by Mass Media.

So I went back to the 1917 AD save and switched from Plastics to Mass Media, and turned up my slider to 100%. On the turn after capturing Bibracte, the Apostolic Palace was mine, and it was obsolete as well since I finished Mass Media.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2014/war1_1925ad.jpg

I then proceeded to vassalize Stalin, and captured a 3rd city from Brennus. I burned by 2nd great artist on that 3rd city, and then vassalized Brennus. My land was at 63%, barely below the 64% necessary for domination.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2014/declare1_.jpg

So I declared war on Saladin a few turns later, and promptly marched my SOD across Brennus' railroaded land (after signing Open Borders with him), and then caputured Saladin's city on the same turn.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/Artichoker_Photo/Vassalage/part%2014/war1_1929ad.jpg

On the next turn, I got the domination victory.

So, there's BTS for you...

So, now that I've posted several online games, I think I'll go back to Photobucket and clean up my old images and albums.

I'll keep the 2 most recent games available at a time...the rest will probably be deleted to clean house.