If i am tech leader, should i even build this (to deny others it, as a hatebuild)?

To my understanding, it gives each civ every tech that 2 civ's both have. Or am i wrong? If i am wrong, this is the right move, but if im right, all i am doing is helping everyone else.

No...

It gives to the owner all of the techs that atleast 2 civs have until the end of the game ( or until the owner loses it ).

No...

It gives to the owner all of the techs that atleast 2 civs have until the end of the game ( or until the owner loses it ).

How can this happen--where is it??? As I understand it, it isn't located in a city so that it could be conquered/razed.

I'm also missing a screen that lists infos on projects (like who has SDI?), I mean for Wonders there is F9, but for projects???

Build it to prevent other civ's from catching up to you in the space race

I've never conquered a city said to have the internet in it, believe it's just a one-time bonus

Build it to prevent other civ's from catching up to you in the space race

This is what I do if I can.

Welcome to the Forums Frankthetank. :beer:

I've never conquered a city said to have the internet in it, believe it's just a one-time bonus
it is not a one time bonus.....

In the F9 wonders screen there is a drop-down above the wonders listing that allows you to choose projects. Even though a particular CITY does not have the project is still is owned by the player who built it.

As r_rolo1 said, it is a continuous benefit. Every turn each opposing civ is checked for unknown technologies and if two of them have the same technology in that last then you get it for free. Once a project like the Internet is completed there is no way to get rid of it. During its construction you can "sabotage project" in ANY city belonging to the constructor and you may be able to destroy it the same way though I've never tried for non-spaceship projects.

In the F9 wonders screen there is a drop-down above the wonders listing that allows you to choose projects. Even though a particular CITY does not have the project is still is owned by the player who built it.
:eek: cool! been playing civ4 for years and never noticed that, thanks!

As r_rolo1 said, it is a continuous benefit. Every turn each opposing civ is checked for unknown technologies and if two of them have the same technology in that last then you get it for free. Once a project like the Internet is completed there is no way to get rid of it. During its construction you can "sabotage project" in ANY city belonging to the constructor and you may be able to destroy it the same way though I've never tried for non-spaceship projects.

Very nice to know. i thought that it was a one time thing as well. That makes The internet a more interesting choice now.

It seems to come too late in the game to be much use.

I preferred the Great Library in the original Civ. That came early, and was probably the most important wonder in the game. (It expired mid-game, though.)

^^That is exactly why the Internet comes so late.... it had a huge impact in the game coming that early

Obviously if you have a comfortable tech lead, the Internet is indeed "too late t make a difference", and building it is a bit of an afterthought--as you said, a "hatebuild" just to deny it to the AI.

On the other hand, if you're trailing in techs, then a desperate Internet bee-line may be just what will save your sorry butt. Check the Carthage ALC game for an example.

It's also conceivable to build the internet and then stop teching, if you're having a fnancial crisis or just want to dump espionage and go a war route.

Hate building sorta depends.

If everyone's pretty close in Techs, give or take this or that, definitely hatebuild. But if it's just your closest competitor that can even build it, let him have it he won't gain much if anything at all.

I'd probably build it, either way, just because I'm a wonderhog.

Nothing wrong with a hatebuild if you can afford to tie up a city doing it. It's equivalent to 10 mech infantries or about 8 modern armors (~6 and 5 if you have copper, which you probably do that late in the game). If that number of units isn't going to make a big difference in the outcome of the game, or your next war, by all means, build it.

internet comes definitely too late and it is way too expensive, besides normally the tech-leading civ is the one that builds it, what reduces even more its effect...

I've built The Internet and shut off research before. I used the money to fund massive infrastructure construction, and then switched to Vassalage, Theocracy, turned up espionage and every single city starts pumping out units (which are, of course, generously rush funded).

During this period of time I also converted most cities into production centres. Although I'm not sure if it would have been more efficient to just screw production and go all out on cash, and rush buy everything after one or two turns of building.

The Internet is extremely powerful. If I'm behind in tech I beeline to computers and build it. Of course this only works if you are not too far behind, but then it works most of the time because the AIs don't beeline. I've had quite a lot of games where the internet put me back on track technologically. If you know you're going to get it, you can concentrate your research on advanced techs nobody else has - you will get all the other techs for free from the AIs. In one stroke you will become the techleader :goodjob:

You guys are forgetting the most important thing.

You get to brag to the world that you CREATED THE INTERNET!

You guys are forgetting the most important thing.

You get to brag to the world that you CREATED THE INTERNET!
I look forward to the Global Warming project in Civ V. :mischief:

EDIT: I was wrong!

Building the internet gives the owner 2 techs from any leader that the builder chooses. It does NOT grant ALL the techs from any 2 leaders.

This would literally be a horrible game breaking wonder. You could literally spend all your time slowly teching to just keep up with military techs and building massive armies to deter anyone from attacking. Using espionage, you could steal certain necessary techs to keep working towards the internet. Even attack a few weaker civs without batting an eye, making tons of money because of slower teching, and then trade up money for techs, and bee line the internet having your most productive city build it. Now you have all the techs from the tech leader and you can upgrade your best troops and surge towards a Space Victory. Besides being totally unbalanced, it's completely unrealistic. Important technologies that are security-sensitive won't be found on the internet.

Thank God that's not how it works! Only 2 free techs from whichever civ you want.

Uh... careful there, blitzkrieg. From the 'pedia: Effects: Grants all Technologies by 2 Known Civilizations

I've used it as a game-breaker before, after falling behind to a crazed Mansa Musa and his three vassals around the time rifling was coming online... by keeping the peace and beelining computers, I ended up backfilling something like a dozen techs, and leaping up to modern warfare the moment construction completed. You can then shut off tech and go completely espionage/culture/wealth, which IMO is the greatest reason for building it in the first place.

It is indeed powerful, but it comes so late that most games don't make it to that point, and it's prohibitively expensive. As for realism: you don't think the Internet contains detailed instructions on sensitive military secrets? Spend five minutes on Google, and see if you can't find detailed instructions on how to put together a low-yield nuclear bomb, or source code for military-grade cryptology. Granted, you'll still need a worker to mine that uranium just outside your BFC, but there are some things you can't get over fiberoptic wire :)

Uh... careful there, blitzkrieg. From the 'pedia: Effects: Grants all Technologies by 2 Known Civilizations

I've used it as a game-breaker before, after falling behind to a crazed Mansa Musa and his three vassals around the time rifling was coming online... by keeping the peace and beelining computers, I ended up backfilling something like a dozen techs, and leaping up to modern warfare the moment construction completed. You can then shut off tech and go completely espionage/culture/wealth, which IMO is the greatest reason for building it in the first place.

It is indeed powerful, but it comes so late that most games don't make it to that point, and it's prohibitively expensive. As for realism: you don't think the Internet contains detailed instructions on sensitive military secrets? Spend five minutes on Google, and see if you can't find detailed instructions on how to put together a low-yield nuclear bomb, or source code for military-grade cryptology. Granted, you'll still need a worker to mine that uranium just outside your BFC, but there are some things you can't get over fiberoptic wire :)

Good call on the Civilopedia! Never got the internet without having all the techs anyway.

As to your realism: Nuclear technology is 65+ years old with respect to research. We have no idea the stuff they are working on now and have just come out with in the last 5-10 years. They keep that stuff pretty sealed up. I was a NUC in the Navy, and even a lot of that information is still NOT present in any google searched information. The internet is deceptive. It ain't as informative as people wish to think.

That is why granting ALL the techs from ANY 2 nations is sorta completely f////d with respect to realism.

It is powerful in BtS, it comes earlier. When it came with Fiber Optics then it was too late and not worth to build it. When you beeline internet then sometimes you get more than 10 techs in the turn when it was built.

Any way to change this in the game? I want to only allow 4 free techs to the builder of the internet. In the modern era, 4 techs could allow a slightly backwards but productive civ to win a space race victory without ALSO allowing it access to all military techs. I mean if a civ needs to grab 10-15 techs in order to catch up with the tech leader, I don't think that civ deserves to win the game. Plain and simple, human or AI. If you need that many techs to catch up, you should try starting a new game.

Any way to change this in the game? I want to only allow 4 free techs to the builder of the internet. In the modern era, 4 techs could allow a slightly backwards but productive civ to win a space race victory without ALSO allowing it access to all military techs. I mean if a civ needs to grab 10-15 techs in order to catch up with the tech leader, I don't think that civ deserves to win the game. Plain and simple, human or AI. If you need that many techs to catch up, you should try starting a new game.
Grabbing the techs is one thing, leveraging them is another. If you build the Internet and obtain Superconductors and Robotics, good for you--but if the board/tech leader has already build Laboratories, the Space Elevator, and all the space ship thrusters, then you still have your work cut out for you. Building the Internet does not guarantee a win.

To my mind, the main reason it's there is to make the potentially-dull end game more exciting. If you're the one who's behind, it encourages you to stick with it in the hopes you can pull off a come-from-behind victory. And speaking as someone who's used it to that effect a couple of times, it feels tremendously satisfying. The flip side, if you're ahead and a rival civ builds it, is that suddenly you've got a race down to the wire on your hands.

hmmm. Game balance... check. Aight. I see it. Still quite unrealistic... but I'm always the advocate for game balance, so my verdict:

Civ 4 Internet, :goodjob:

Any way to change this in the game? I want to only allow 4 free techs to the builder of the internet. In the modern era, 4 techs could allow a slightly backwards but productive civ to win a space race victory without ALSO allowing it access to all military techs. I mean if a civ needs to grab 10-15 techs in order to catch up with the tech leader, I don't think that civ deserves to win the game. Plain and simple, human or AI. If you need that many techs to catch up, you should try starting a new game.

The balance doesn't seem all that broken... if you're far enough behind in tech that you're having to slingshot ahead by 5 or 10 techs, you're probably also well behind the AI in starting construction of the spaceship. If you're relying on the Internet for a SS win, you're in trouble from the start.

Personally, I've always thought that the right balance for it would be to factor in # of civs on the map when deciding what the cutoff was--if you're playing on a small Pangea map with 3 other civs, you get up to 2 techs, as long as 1 other civ knows them. On a Huge Terra map with 17 other civs, you get up to 15 techs, but only if 4 or more others know them. That adds in a measure of reality--if 1/4 of the world already knows about it, chances are it's out there somewhere on the Interwebs, even if Google doesn't know about it.

Speaking of, I like to think that they (correctly) envision the Internet as being more than the World Wide Web--it's the connectivity that's being captured, which is why it's a Project and not a Wonder built in a city. That way, you can think of it as having strictly military application too: the whole world is wired up, and you've got the best guys under your control, who can break into rival nations' computer systems to ferret out any advances they've made.

I like your solution Mayor West. It seems less OP and more realistic while not capping the # of techs given to 4 on a huge map with 17 civs (which would be very UNDERpowered IMO).

Although outside networks usually aren't connected to any networks with Confidential Secret or higher information. That's kept on a separate internal server on-site for the most part and are designated with stickers on machines/servers/hard drives/disks etc their level of confidentiality.

That adds in a measure of reality--if 1/4 of the world already knows about it, chances are it's out there somewhere on the Interwebs, even if Google doesn't know about it.


You cannot deny the omnipresence of Google.

haha, realism. Complain about the internet while the Eiffel Tower builds a radio tower in all the cities, and the Pyramids allow a police state government...

If you have a tech lead, I find it is best for military and cultural games. but of which, you can pretty much turn off research at this point. At the same time, you keep up the pace of the second fastest AI, so you don't fall way behind and pumping your score. And especially for military, go all out beeline to a military tech (i.e. composites, robotics) and still get the other techs.

Space race, it isn't as useful as I want as big of tech lead as possible, and wont want to wait for the AI to research techs I want.

When the game was between me (if I get the internet first I am usually the tech leader), and 2 or more civs almost as technologically advanced as me, I will go for it (happens a lot when you don't have No Technology Brokering on, fairly rare when it is on). If I am behind, but have a clear ability to beeline to whatever it is (I forget if it's computers or fiber optics, or something else) and build it before anyone else, I will do it then as well. Otherwise I don't bother.

I just wanna say you can't "take" the internet. It's not a building, so once a civ gets it it's theirs until the civ is dead. I just played a game where Elizabeth got it while I was at war with her(she beelined through robotics to get Mech Inf before anyone else! I still beat her though!), I took all her cities except two(a single tile island city and a tundra peninsula city) before she capitulated. No Internet benefit for me.

The Internet does not show up on the top 5 cities/wonders screen nether. You can't acquire it.

I nearly always get the Internet but I do find it annoying when you aren't given lower teams technologies.

I got the Internet in my last game and I was 1st in score - the person who was 8th in score had Medicine, yet I didn't get it - I find it annoying that it only appears to take techs from the 2 leading teams - which especially with vassal situations aren't necessarily ahead in technology. Is there anyway round that?

I nearly always get the Internet but I do find it annoying when you aren't given lower teams technologies.

I got the Internet in my last game and I was 1st in score - the person who was 8th in score had Medicine, yet I didn't get it - I find it annoying that it only appears to take techs from the 2 leading teams - which especially with vassal situations aren't necessarily ahead in technology. Is there anyway round that?
The Internet gives you any technology known to at least 2 other civs, regardless of their position on the scoreboard. However, I think in team games each team is treated as a single civ in this regard, so at least one other team would need to have Medicine for you to get it.

You cannot deny the omnipresence of Google.

As Yahoo! found out. :)

Welcome to the Forums CLST. :beer:

is it a one time grant, or a living grant?

I get the net, yada yada.

5 turns later, 2 civ's learn a tech i don't have - is it mine, or was it one time only?

I like the idea of the net being a national wonder think like this.

First to build it, gets all techs known by 2 civs
Second gets techs known by 3
Third gets techs known by 4

so on, so forth. the value of it goes down and it might not even be worth it for the second or third on down builders of it.

I like the idea of the net being a national wonder think like this.

First to build it, gets all techs known by 2 civs
Second gets techs known by 3
Third gets techs known by 4

so on, so forth. the value of it goes down and it might not even be worth it for the second or third on down builders of it.
Funny--this would trigger an avalanche, once a tech is known to two players, the first internet will give it to its owner which means, the tech is now known to three players, ...
= all internets are equal.;)

lol. True.

And yes, teams only count as 1 civ rather than poly civs.

The Internet is a great tool for an espionage strategy. If you fall behind in tech, it can become almost pointless to do research, while espionage becomes cost-effective. It can leverage a high-production city into tech parity, and that can make a big difference.

Also, computers are on the bottom of the tech tree while the AIs tend to go for the top of the tree, rocketry and satellites. If you know that you're ahead on getting to Computers, you can beeline it and skip a lot of research.

If I'm leading in tech, I'd definitely build it to deny it to an AI, who otherwise will catch up. If someone else has it, it messes with the tech-selling strategy. I can't simply sell a tech to someone without also giving it to the Internet owner, and thus the value of selling it drops. I must sell it to the Internet owner, whatever the offer, because it is better than getting nothing for it.

As for realism, the Internet offers benefits to espionage, trade, and generally enhances communications. Whoever creates it has a foot in the door in every nation which joins into it. You could model this with bonus trade and espionage directly, but the free tech is both interesting and less overpowering for a tech leader, who doesn't need so much free technology.