Has anyone else had this? I had a vassal that was friendly to me, but I got WFYABTA. The only possible explanation I could think of was that it functions similar to whether an AI will DOW you or not based on having other vassals (I had more than 1) - he might have shown friendly but not been?

Otherwise it makes no sense at all to me.

AFAIK if your friendly vassal is <=pleased with one or more of your other vassals you will get a WFYABTA denial from him.

If you've got more than one vassal and they are not friendly you will get a WFYABTA denial.

What WFYABTA means?:)

We fear you are becoming too advanced, message you get from particular AI when the artificial limit of techs that AI's are willing to trade with you has been filled - it has nothing to do with how advanced you are actually, so it's kinda stupid.

Mansa does not suffer from this limit. ;)

We fear you are becoming too advanced, message you get from particular AI when the artificial limit of techs that AI's are willing to trade with you has been filled - it has nothing to do with how advanced you are actually, so it's kinda stupid.

Mansa does not suffer from this limit. ;)

No, Mansa does have a WFYABTA limit. However, it's the highest of all the AI's.
If you hit Mansa's WFYABTA you've really tech-whored too much.

No, Mansa does have a WFYABTA limit. However, it's the highest of all the AI's.
If you hit Mansa's WFYABTA you've really tech-whored too much.

Mansas ass would be really sore after that. :lol:

I stand corrected and think that he does not suffer from the limit where he would actually have to know another AI for trading monopoly techs? :goodjob:

Mansas ass would be really sore after that. :lol:

I stand corrected and think that he does not suffer from the limit where he would actually have to know another AI for trading monopoly techs? :goodjob:

That is correct. Mansa does not have a 'We don't want to start trading this technology away just yet' limit. Mansa has a 0% known limit so he will trade even if nobody knows the tech yet.

Compare to Toku, who will only trade if everybody else knows it...

It's quite telling that Mansa is usually one of the better AI's techwise despite his empire size...

Another note, what has been said here about vassals also counts for PA team mates.

If you've got more than one vassal and they are not friendly you will get a WFYABTA denial.

Actually, the attitude of my other vassals towards me is irrelevant. Only the vassal with the desired tech needs to be friendly with me and all my other vassals.

Gah, and I just recently discovered Scientific Method so I can't even try to convert my capitulatee to the same religion as me and my tech partner. Guess I'm on my own for the rest of the game.

Gah, and I just recently discovered Scientific Method so I can't even try to convert my capitulatee to the same religion as me and my tech partner. Guess I'm on my own for the rest of the game.

OR still lets you build missionaries without monasteries. Online monasteries still allow those cities to build missionaries.

Mansa has a limit, but it's 30.

OR still lets you build missionaries without monasteries. Online monasteries still allow those cities to build missionaries.
True statements.

But riddle me this, why do I face 50+ years of wfyabta by the entire world only to have Hammurabi show up when our relationship is at its worst--in the entire history of time,+2--and suddenly not care I'm still on the top of the scoreboard. I haven't advanced an age for the forget factor. Last turn he feared I was becoming too advanced as everyone else in the world continues to. But today he's gonna cut me a deal it seems.

It's wild. My friendly ally won't trade . .. .. .. . with me, but the cautious guy has a big heart.

;7052801']Mansa has a limit, but it's 30.

The leaders have base values of 5, 10, 15, and 20 (only Mansa) for iNoTechTradeThreshold, these base values are increased according to your difficulty level (+100% Settler ... +20% Deity).

I haven't advanced an age for the forget factor.
Every leader has a 5% chance (MemoryDecay MEMORY_RECEIVED_TECH_FROM_ANY=20) to decrease the counter each turn, this has nothing to do with you entering a new age/era, so Hammurabi just "forgot" by dicing a 0 out of [0..19].

The interesting fact is that all forget-chances per turn do not scale with game speed, so WFYABTA should be less problematic on marathon--can anyone confirm this?

Dan, you're the man. Knows the facts and figures like the back of his hand. If you don't know the answer he'll help you understand, he's Dan.

Mansa does not have a 'We don't want to start trading this technology away just yet' limit. Mansa has a 0% known limit so he will trade even if nobody knows the tech yet.

He will still red-out a tech if he's building a wonder enabled by that tech.

On a side note, it would be interesting if the strategic/health/happy classification for resources was applied to techs as well =)

He will still red-out a tech if he's building a wonder enabled by that tech.

That's "We have our reasons" IIRC.

On a side note, it would be interesting if the strategic/health/happy classification for resources was applied to techs as well =)

Kinda hard to apply that to techs. A better classification would be military/economical/cultural (and maybe some extra, I dunno).

It would make sense, though. I can be quite stingy with trading away military techs but usually don't care much for the cultural ones. If AI's are planning on war with you they should not trade away their military techs to you.

I do understand how it works now, btw...I HAVE been reading the thread, thanks all!

So......does anyone think they'll do anything about the "that goes against everything we stand for!!!" bug? Once an AI gets into its favorite civic, it reds out ALL civic changes - pretty stupid IMO, even if there are workarounds.

" Free speech "


That would go against everything we stand for!


Never gets old.

I have a situation right now where Saladin, who has been friendly with me for ages won't trade with me (WFYABTA) now that Izzy capitulated to me (Sal is cautious toward Izzy).

So if I understand correctly, I have to get Sal's relationship toward Izzy up to pleased for him to trade with me again? I bribed her into me and Sal's religion (which put Izzy's relationship toward Sal at pleased, but this is irrelevant right?). There is no way for me to affect their deals any other way right?

This sucks so bad. If I had known I wouldn't be able to trade with anyone I would have razed her two pathetic tundra cities instead of letting them capitulate.

You have to get Saladin up to Friendly with Isabella to avoid WFYABTA.

I agree that this behavior is kind of broken. I think they should do away this bizarre relationship averaging and just increase the "You have a vassal" (or whatever it's called) diplomatic penalty when a civ hates your vassal.

Z

You have to get Saladin up to Friendly with Isabella to avoid WFYABTA.

I agree that this behavior is kind of broken. I think they should do away this bizarre relationship averaging and just increase the "You have a vassal" (or whatever it's called) diplomatic penalty when a civ hates your vassal.

Z

Or, they could just remove the averaging for CAPITULATED vassals (as it makes a lot of sense with voluntary), since capitulated vassals are basically just your puppets now anyway.

It's annoying because sometimes if you don't take a vassal via capitulation it will vassal to someone else and get you in war or drastically increase WW as you hunt down that last city.

Sometimes after I take enough cities I just take peace (aka knocked someone off the continent or removed culture pressure issues) - someone else can wipe out those crappy little cities or whatever later or I can once WW dies down and I feel like it.

You have to get Saladin up to Friendly with Isabella to avoid WFYABTA.

Yeah thats not happening. They hate each other. This is a totally broken game mechanic.


It's annoying because sometimes if you don't take a vassal via capitulation it will vassal to someone else and get you in war or drastically increase WW as you hunt down that last city.
This is probably the most annoying thing in civ4, imo. I have become annoyed enough to quit games when an AI vassals to my best friend the turn before I take their capital, even though I thought one of the updates was supposed to make them want to capitulate to the civ that dealt them the most damage. :mad:

Sometimes after I take enough cities I just take peace (aka knocked someone off the continent or removed culture pressure issues) - someone else can wipe out those crappy little cities or whatever later or I can once WW dies down and I feel like it.
I am starting to think this is often a better option in many cases. In my original example culture pressure was too much of an issue.