View Full Version : RoM 2.0 Civics balance discussion


0100010
Jul 19, 2008, 09:10 AM
I am going to rethink the civic changes I suggested earlier, (not necessarily that my suggestions wouldn't change but because I want to take a different approach to the analysis)

Here's the approach I want to take on suggesting balance changes to civic.

What geographic and demographic variables need to be considered when taking a look at how your empire is situated, and how you want to govern it.

1. Size: small to large (# of cities, main modifier maintenance for # cities)
2. Expanse: concentrated to spread out (city placement, main modifier palace distance)

3. Neighborhood: scale: Isolated to Lots of neighbors.

Government Styles:

Domestic policy emphasis: Production, Commerce, Science, Culture, or Balanced.

Foreign policy emphasis: Aggressive, Peaceful

These are broad categories but suggest other choices that you can think of

IMO, among a set of different combination of civics there should be a "best" fit for a combination of the example variables above, based on the era you are in. That way you can answer the following question: (or ones similar to it)

What is the best choice of civics for a small, isolated scientific emphasis peaceful empire in the classical era?

Or what is the best choice of civics for a large, production emphasis aggressive empire with lots of neighbors in the medieval era?

What is the best choice of civics for a [small, large], [Production, Commerce, Scientific, Culture, Balance emphasis], [aggressive, peaceful], empire with [zero, lots of neighbors], in the [Ancient, Classical, Medieval....] era.

There are 3 other main things that IMO need to be addressed overall.
1. In general there are too many bonuses of various type among the civis, and they all need to be toned down a bit because even with small numbers they are overpowering.

2. Choosing once civic over another should not be an automatic choice (in most situations) but based entirely on what government style you want to achieve. There are too many where a civic is better off outright skipped, or automatically switched to when it becomes available. IE they need to be better balanced with each other.

4. I think this is critical, the Pyramids, Marco Polo's embassy, and even wonder that makes all religious civic available (although to a far lesser degree than the other two) are too powerful. No wonder should be able to give you the ability to make all civic of a given category available during any era. Only research should make them available. Others have made similar comments, and provided alternatives benefits for those wonders. If they retain these abilities then they screw with the choice balance concept by era presented above.

0100010
Jul 19, 2008, 09:12 AM
Here is a list of modifers that can be attached to civic (as pulled from the Despotism example in the XML

<iAnarchyLength>1</iAnarchyLength>
<Upkeep>UPKEEP_LOW</Upkeep>
<iAIWeight>0</iAIWeight>
<iGreatPeopleRateModifier>0</iGreatPeopleRateModifier>
<iGreatGeneralRateModifier>0</iGreatGeneralRateModifier>
<iDomesticGreatGeneralRateModifier>0</iDomesticGreatGeneralRateModifier>
<iStateReligionGreatPeopleRateModifier>0</iStateReligionGreatPeopleRateModifier>
<iDistanceMaintenanceModifier>0</iDistanceMaintenanceModifier>
<iNumCitiesMaintenanceModifier>0</iNumCitiesMaintenanceModifier>
<iCorporationMaintenanceModifier>0</iCorporationMaintenanceModifier>
<iExtraHealth>-2</iExtraHealth>
<iFreeExperience>0</iFreeExperience>
<iWorkerSpeedModifier>0</iWorkerSpeedModifier>
<iImprovementUpgradeRateModifier>0</iImprovementUpgradeRateModifier>
<iMilitaryProductionModifier>10</iMilitaryProductionModifier>
<iBaseFreeUnits>0</iBaseFreeUnits>
<iBaseFreeMilitaryUnits>0</iBaseFreeMilitaryUnits>
<iFreeUnitsPopulationPercent>0</iFreeUnitsPopulationPercent>
<iFreeMilitaryUnitsPopulationPercent>0</iFreeMilitaryUnitsPopulationPercent>
<iGoldPerUnit>0</iGoldPerUnit>
<iGoldPerMilitaryUnit>0</iGoldPerMilitaryUnit>
<iHappyPerMilitaryUnit>0</iHappyPerMilitaryUnit>
<bMilitaryFoodProduction>0</bMilitaryFoodProduction>
<iMaxConscript>0</iMaxConscript>
<bNoUnhealthyPopulation>0</bNoUnhealthyPopulation>
<iExpInBorderModifier>0</iExpInBorderModifier>
<bBuildingOnlyHealthy>0</bBuildingOnlyHealthy>
<iLargestCityHappiness>2</iLargestCityHappiness>
<iWarWearinessModifier>-40</iWarWearinessModifier>
<iFreeSpecialist>0</iFreeSpecialist>
<iTradeRoutes>0</iTradeRoutes>
<bNoForeignTrade>0</bNoForeignTrade>
<bNoCorporations>0</bNoCorporations>
<bNoForeignCorporations>0</bNoForeignCorporations>
<iCivicPercentAnger>0</iCivicPercentAnger>
<bStateReligion>0</bStateReligion>
<bNoNonStateReligionSpread>0</bNoNonStateReligionSpread>
<iStateReligionHappiness>0</iStateReligionHappiness>
<iNonStateReligionHappiness>0</iNonStateReligionHappiness>
<iStateReligionUnitProductionModifier>0</iStateReligionUnitProductionModifier>
<iStateReligionBuildingProductionModifier>0</iStateReligionBuildingProductionModifier>
<iStateReligionFreeExperience>0</iStateReligionFreeExperience>
<YieldModifiers/>
<CapitalYieldModifiers/>
<TradeYieldModifiers/>
<CommerceModifiers/>
<CapitalCommerceModifiers/>
<SpecialistExtraCommerces/>
<Hurrys/>
<SpecialBuildingNotRequireds/>
<SpecialistValids/>
<BuildingHappinessChanges/>
<BuildingHealthChanges/>
<FeatureHappinessChanges/>
<ImprovementYieldChanges/>

Cuteunit
Aug 02, 2008, 02:59 AM
Dial back all the huge % bonuses out of all civics. Leave percent bonuses to buildings.

+25% wealth from free market is probably the most game breaking "rush into the Singularity" event in ROM.

Make civics affect Culture rates, Production and possibly Happiness ONLY. No +Science, no +Wealth. The government spends money, it does not earn it.

Any Happy bonuses should come relevant to resources. an Agrarian society could have happiness based on Food resources the empire owns, for example.

LtChambers
Aug 09, 2008, 11:51 AM
Dial back all the huge % bonuses out of all civics. Leave percent bonuses to buildings.

+25% wealth from free market is probably the most game breaking "rush into the Singularity" event in ROM.

Make civics affect Culture rates, Production and possibly Happiness ONLY. No +Science, no +Wealth. The government spends money, it does not earn it.

Any Happy bonuses should come relevant to resources. an Agrarian society could have happiness based on Food resources the empire owns, for example.

I disagree. Your free market example is a good one. Free market is far superior to the alternatives for generating wealth. You can either represent that by a -% to the alternatives and no modification to free market, or by no modification to the alternatives and a +% to free market. And if you do the -%, you have to rebalance the rest of the game (when free market isn't available).

For the OP's suggestion, I think that some civics should be simply better than the alternatives, although I agree that it may vary depending on the context. For a small warlike nation, despotism/monarchy is a lot better than representation/democracy.