View Full Version : Huge Europe Map


Chamboozer
Jul 20, 2008, 05:45 PM
I've started creating a Huge sized Europe map for Dale, or anyone, to release if they might want to. I have one question, though. Is there a way to convert a Worldbuilder map into scenario form? I know that it will require python (which I can't do quite yet) but advance knowledge will be useful. Thanks in advance.

Dale
Jul 20, 2008, 06:09 PM
Save the WorldBuilder file to the RtW PublicMaps folder.

To fully integrate into RtW an amount of Python programming will be needed. Otherwise it's just a map running RtW's colours. ;)

Chamboozer
Jul 20, 2008, 06:11 PM
Save the WorldBuilder file to the RtW PublicMaps folder.

To fully integrate into RtW an amount of Python programming will be needed. Otherwise it's just a map running RtW's colours. ;)

Will that allow you to select your civ? Right now I'm running the WB out of a custom scenario tailored for the map type, which required me to select a civ to play.

Chamboozer
Jul 20, 2008, 06:41 PM
Also, whenever I remove a land tile and replace it with an ocean tile, it turns into a darker blue color than everything around it and seems to sink into the ground more than the surrounding ocean? What is this problem, and how should I go about fixing it?

EDIT: Never mind. This is simply the "Continent Outline" glitch. I fixed it.

Dale
Jul 20, 2008, 07:27 PM
Will that allow you to select your civ? Right now I'm running the WB out of a custom scenario tailored for the map type, which required me to select a civ to play.

I find the best way to make a map is to load a Custom Game of RtW choosing the Civs I want on the map, in the order I want them. Then that way you don't have to worry about being able to choose Civs etc because they are in there from the start.

Otherwise, you could have to manually write up the whole leader/civ header in the WBS file. A nightmare (I had to do that with Desert War).

Dale
Jul 20, 2008, 07:28 PM
Also, whenever I remove a land tile and replace it with an ocean tile, it turns into a darker blue color than everything around it and seems to sink into the ground more than the surrounding ocean? What is this problem, and how should I go about fixing it?

EDIT: Never mind. This is simply the "Continent Outline" glitch. I fixed it.

Yeah, a simple reload fixes that.

Chamboozer
Jul 20, 2008, 07:37 PM
I find the best way to make a map is to load a Custom Game of RtW choosing the Civs I want on the map, in the order I want them. Then that way you don't have to worry about being able to choose Civs etc because they are in there from the start.

Otherwise, you could have to manually write up the whole leader/civ header in the WBS file. A nightmare (I had to do that with Desert War).

That's exactly what I did. :)

My friend and I are measuring everything exactly. 1 tile = 100 miles. We have so much room!

Chamboozer
Jul 20, 2008, 08:14 PM
Oh wow. I just finished making the outline of North Africa and I have to say, I've never seen a more beautiful thing in my life. You guys'll love it.

I don't remember how big the old map was but man, just consider this.

Iberian Pinensula = 18 Cities.
France = 21 Cities

Chamboozer
Jul 21, 2008, 01:51 PM
Here's a screenshot of it so far. Ignore the fact that most of Europe is Ice, I just put it there to get an outline.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183446&stc=1&d=1216666210

Tboy
Jul 21, 2008, 02:03 PM
Sweet... :drool: Looking forward to this one. :)

danrh
Jul 22, 2008, 11:02 PM
An interesting possibility with this map could more open warfare rather than working from city to city. Looks good.

Dan

Chamboozer
Jul 23, 2008, 10:55 AM
An interesting possibility with this map could more open warfare rather than working from city to city. Looks good.

Dan

This will be especially prevalent in west Africa and Siberia

Chamboozer
Jul 25, 2008, 11:53 PM
Screenshot of a partially finished piece of North Africa.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183901&stc=1&d=1217047957

Dale
Jul 26, 2008, 02:00 AM
If I may suggest, try a lower culture value for cities. 50 gives the city cross borders.

That way cities like Gibralter won't be overwhelmed, and from Beta3 culture is pretty much non-existant anyways so you don't need the massive culture values to push borders.

Chamboozer
Jul 26, 2008, 01:25 PM
In africa at least culture needs to be massive to cover all the ground without leaving open spaces. Gibraltar should be getting overwhelmed. Its a small place, and it constantly being in revolt stops people from using it for production, which wouldn't be realistic. Its a base, not an actual city. At least, in its use during WWII. In most parts of Europe the culture is lowered to 50-100.

Tboy
Jul 29, 2008, 06:29 AM
Looks good, but why's the bottom-right 'classified'? My curiosity is piqued...

Maaximillus
Jul 29, 2008, 11:16 AM
Because the rest of the world is still in nuclear winter :P
And btw why there is no northern Finland?

Chamboozer
Jul 29, 2008, 03:01 PM
Because the rest of the world is still in nuclear winter :P
And btw why there is no northern Finland?

Honestly, it's because I ran out of room. However, its only a small part of Finland/Scandinavia that's not there, and you can still easily walk between finland and sweden. It also helps to balance out those countries by not giving them masses more land than the highly industrialized nations in western Europe. The 75% of Finland in this map is about the same size as all of Finland in the normal Europe map.

VeteranLurker
Jul 29, 2008, 06:58 PM
Hmm, though I cannot see it, I would wonder about the top of Scandinavia -- does this mean there is no water route (however simplified/cut-off) around the top of Scandinavia to get to Murmansk? If there will be any modding to add some sort of convoy/lend-lease feature, this would be strategically important.

Chamboozer
Jul 30, 2008, 12:19 AM
Hmm, though I cannot see it, I would wonder about the top of Scandinavia -- does this mean there is no water route (however simplified/cut-off) around the top of Scandinavia to get to Murmansk? If there will be any modding to add some sort of convoy/lend-lease feature, this would be strategically important.

Actually, there is no Murmansk. Only about 4 squares (top to bottom) of the Kola Pinensula is there, and you cannot walk to it. Considering the current type of gameplay that RTW presents you with I thought the extra space would be better used to expand Africa southward a far greater distance. It also helps to make the location of North America more geographically realistic.

Chamboozer
Jul 30, 2008, 07:59 PM
Is it possible to add new civilizations to the scenario after its creation? I think the addition of Saudi Arabia would be beneficial. Didn't think of it before.

Dale
Jul 30, 2008, 09:03 PM
Arabia is in the list of standard RtW nations, which I've used to encompass Saudia Arabia and the other small Arabian penninsula nations.

Easiest way is to define one of the blank teams/civs in the WBS file as Arabia, and give them one unit (you can copy an existing infantry unit and change the UnitOwner to what Arabia is) at plot 0,0 (bottom left).

Start a new game as nation 1 on that map (so no AI has a chance to move anything) go into world builder and remove the unit at 0,0 and setup the cities and units for Arabia where they should be. :)

Dale
Jul 30, 2008, 09:04 PM
BTW, in adding some improvements to DalesCombatMod, and fixing some bugs, I appear to have fixed the mysterious random AI turn crash. :) So I can re-enable StackAttack for RtW after updating the DCM modules in RtW. :D

Chamboozer
Jul 30, 2008, 10:34 PM
Arabia is in the list of standard RtW nations, which I've used to encompass Saudia Arabia and the other small Arabian penninsula nations.

Easiest way is to define one of the blank teams/civs in the WBS file as Arabia, and give them one unit (you can copy an existing infantry unit and change the UnitOwner to what Arabia is) at plot 0,0 (bottom left).

Start a new game as nation 1 on that map (so no AI has a chance to move anything) go into world builder and remove the unit at 0,0 and setup the cities and units for Arabia where they should be. :)

What file should I use to access WBS?

Dale
Jul 30, 2008, 11:03 PM
Notepad is what I use.

sk8er AG
Aug 02, 2008, 01:25 PM
will this map include north africa?

Chamboozer
Aug 02, 2008, 02:56 PM
will this map include north africa?

It will include a signifncant portion of north africa. The Tropic of Cancer is the furthest the map goes southward, so thats 90% of Egypt, Lybia, Algeria, etc.

Here's a new screenshot for you. The feared French Maginot Line!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184669&stc=1&d=1217706952

sk8er AG
Aug 02, 2008, 11:13 PM
Chamboozer-
thanks for the info and screenshot. looking foward to playing the scenario.

Omathaar
Aug 04, 2008, 04:23 AM
This is a beautiful thing you're creating, boozer! :hatsoff:

btw, is there no other way to fill up wide vacant spaces like North Africa, besides just giving the little cities huge culture? (I've been making a LOTR scenario in spare time, and it's tough filling up some vacant places in Harad and such)

ExMachina
Aug 04, 2008, 10:54 AM
Is it not possible to extend the map a bit northward to the tip of Scandinavia, without losing parts of north Africa? I don't know how much I like the thought of Norway, Sweden, and Finland losing half their territory.

The map looks good, though. I look forward to trying it out.

Chamboozer
Aug 04, 2008, 01:06 PM
Dale, I've run into a strange problem. I'm unable to declare war as any civ. It happened after I put the final 2 civs into the game (America & Canada). Any ideas as to why this happened?

sk8er AG
Aug 05, 2008, 09:07 PM
Is the huge europe map included in Ulitmate Editon or sepreatly?

Dale
Aug 05, 2008, 11:30 PM
Chamboozer: when you mouse over the Civs scoreboard does it say "can't declare war"?

Aleenik
Aug 06, 2008, 01:29 AM
Is the huge europe map included in Ulitmate Editon or sepreatly?

it isnt out yet..The Huge Europe map that is

Chamboozer
Aug 06, 2008, 11:22 AM
Chamboozer: when you mouse over the Civs scoreboard does it say "can't declare war"?

Yes ( 10 )

Dale
Aug 06, 2008, 03:11 PM
Okay this is where you need to do some python. The map needs to be linked into RtW so that the mod knows which map it is. The way I set that up is by using plot 0,0 as a key plot (you'll notice on my maps that plot 0,0 is not ocean). Each map has a unique key which is read on loading by python to determine which map it is. Once the map is found out then it sets up everything. Currently the default is to turn diplomacy off until after turn 1 when the player makes their choice (historical, random, open). If the player chooses open, then all the diplomacy is turned back on.

Chamboozer
Aug 07, 2008, 12:53 AM
Okay this is where you need to do some python. The map needs to be linked into RtW so that the mod knows which map it is. The way I set that up is by using plot 0,0 as a key plot (you'll notice on my maps that plot 0,0 is not ocean). Each map has a unique key which is read on loading by python to determine which map it is. Once the map is found out then it sets up everything. Currently the default is to turn diplomacy off until after turn 1 when the player makes their choice (historical, random, open). If the player chooses open, then all the diplomacy is turned back on.

Good thing plot 0,0 isn't ocean here either. Is there a way to temporarily remove this, or will I have to code the Historical/random/open choice box into it now? If it's the latter, I might have trouble because I can't get python to work properly on Vista (tried really simple commands and nothing happened).

Dale
Aug 07, 2008, 01:19 AM
That's strange cuz I did AOP3 & UE on Vista. Had no problems with python.

Anyways, no you will have to link it in as the choice between those three options sets up all the options in the game (turning diplomacy on/off, assigning hidden techs so can build settlers if needed, etc).

Chamboozer
Aug 07, 2008, 01:10 PM
Alright, i'll start by looking into getting Python working then get back to you when I need more specifics on this.

Chamboozer
Aug 08, 2008, 07:16 PM
So what do I do? I assume all it involves is linking the map to some file containing the Gameplay choices, or is it more complicated than that?

Chamboozer
Aug 13, 2008, 12:29 PM
So what do I do? I assume all it involves is linking the map to some file containing the Gameplay choices, or is it more complicated than that?

*coughdalepleasecough*

Dale
Aug 19, 2008, 05:58 PM
I've attached the updated RtW Event Manager. I've set your map to be self.Map == 6.

I've setup Vichy France to occur on 5 French cities occupied, but you might want to change that (in this script). I've also set it as a 1936 map. Didn't know what date you wanted to start in. :)

No events are setup, so if you go through the script you'll see where to put them in (I would suggest using self.Map == 0 [1936 Europe] settings as a template).

IMPORTANT:
Plot(0,0) MUST MUST MUST be TERRAIN_WINTERPLAINS for RtW to detect it correctly. :)

sk8er AG
Aug 20, 2008, 01:53 AM
was just wondern if theres a approx date for huge europe map comin out, lookn foward to playn.

Chamboozer
Aug 20, 2008, 11:39 AM
I've attached the updated RtW Event Manager. I've set your map to be self.Map == 6.

I've setup Vichy France to occur on 5 French cities occupied, but you might want to change that (in this script). I've also set it as a 1936 map. Didn't know what date you wanted to start in. :)

No events are setup, so if you go through the script you'll see where to put them in (I would suggest using self.Map == 0 [1936 Europe] settings as a template).

IMPORTANT:
Plot(0,0) MUST MUST MUST be TERRAIN_WINTERPLAINS for RtW to detect it correctly. :)

Ahh finally! Thanks Dale, i'll get on it immediately.

I don't want to set a release date because it means I might try to rush it, and rushed = lower quality.

sk8er AG
Aug 20, 2008, 11:54 PM
o ok know what you mean

Chamboozer
Aug 25, 2008, 02:19 PM
I'm having a little trouble with Python, so i'm going to postpone the coding of the map untill I can find myself a decent tutorial. However, I plan to release a codeless version of the map soon so people can give me their impuit on terrain/cities/borders, etc.

Chamboozer
Sep 15, 2008, 10:57 PM
Just so you know, this project is not dead. I'll make an attempt to get some new screenshots up sometime tommorow.

Omathaar
Sep 16, 2008, 01:10 AM
Good to know! I was just thinking about this today. Looking forward to the shots! And take your time, we'll be glad to have your best job on it

Chamboozer
Sep 19, 2008, 04:55 PM
I can't get Civilization IV to work on this computer so I'm transfering the map to another. That's why it's taken so long to get screenshots. Expect them shortly.

Chamboozer
Sep 19, 2008, 05:18 PM
Ok, here they are

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189153&stc=1&d=1221862526

The (unfinished) English Channel.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189154&stc=1&d=1221862611

I think Poland's borders are a little more realistic in this version.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189155&stc=1&d=1221862611

Here's Yugoslavia

BLubmuz
Sep 21, 2008, 10:27 AM
Seems interesting.
Could you post a SS of the whole map (satellite view with cultural zones)?
What else do you have to improve?

Chamboozer
Sep 21, 2008, 08:08 PM
Seems interesting.
Could you post a SS of the whole map (satellite view with cultural zones)?
What else do you have to improve?

I'll see about getting the sattelite map.

USSR and USA aren't anywhere near being completed, and I need to finish the French Colonies, Turkey, tile improvements in France & britan, Cities in Scotland, and I'm redoing all of Scandinavia because I didn't get the shape right.

Chamboozer
Sep 21, 2008, 08:08 PM
Seems interesting.
Could you post a SS of the whole map (satellite view with cultural zones)?
What else do you have to improve?

I'll see about getting the sattelite map.

USSR and USA aren't anywhere near being completed, and I need to finish the French Colonies, Turkey, tile improvements in France & britan, Cities in Scotland, and I'm redoing all of Scandinavia because I didn't get the shape right.

Chamboozer
Sep 27, 2008, 12:07 PM
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189806&stc=1&d=1222535144

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189808&stc=1&d=1222535144

REDY
Sep 29, 2008, 09:59 AM
Small note: Czechoslovakia

Chamboozer
Sep 29, 2008, 08:48 PM
If thats the case, then its Dale's fault :)

sk8er AG
Sep 29, 2008, 09:34 PM
Just a minor note. I think Greece should be considered facist. It was under the control of General Mextacas(not sure if spelled right). Thanks for the screenshots, really lookn forward to playn.

Chamboozer
Sep 30, 2008, 05:01 PM
Just a minor note. I think Greece should be considered facist. It was under the control of General Mextacas(not sure if spelled right). Thanks for the screenshots, really lookn forward to playn.

I considered that as well, but for the purposes of gameplay in open mode, I think it should remain as it is.

BLubmuz
Oct 06, 2008, 05:26 PM
Seems interesting, still.
but dammit, Caorle? call it Trieste.
Why not italian names? Venezia, Napoli, Roma... more ralistic, i think.

Chamboozer
Oct 06, 2008, 10:00 PM
Seems interesting, still.
but dammit, Caorle? call it Trieste.
Why not italian names? Venezia, Napoli, Roma... more ralistic, i think.

Not a bad idea, sure makes finding cities on google maps far easier, though, naming Russian cities in russian might be difficult.

Omathaar
Oct 06, 2008, 11:14 PM
This looks amazing. Must've taken you so much effort already.

BLubmuz
Oct 07, 2008, 04:21 AM
Russian cities in russian?
I think russian cities' names are already in russian, of course not in cyrillic.

Chamboozer
Oct 08, 2008, 12:11 AM
I'm currently testing the map in normal Civ IV mode to see how balanced each area of land is for developing civilizations.

Not enough rivers is all that can be said right now. :)

Omathaar
Oct 08, 2008, 10:22 PM
Off topic, but I'm making a mod and want DCM and IDW in it, but, uh, have no clue yet how to put those in. Anyone know?

Fin Imperial
Oct 09, 2008, 12:03 PM
I've been peering into the map for Karelian Istmus (It's kinda small and difficult to spot) and now I would like to ask will Viipuri be Finnish city? (It was taken by Russians after Winter War, Finnish city since independence) I believe that would make game a bit more realistic.

On to the next inquirement:
Does Bulgaria have even the slightest chance of appearing in the map?

PS. Looking great already, holding my breath until its ready:)

Chamboozer
Oct 09, 2008, 07:47 PM
I've been peering into the map for Karelian Istmus (It's kinda small and difficult to spot) and now I would like to ask will Viipuri be Finnish city? (It was taken by Russians after Winter War, Finnish city since independence) I believe that would make game a bit more realistic.

On to the next inquirement:
Does Bulgaria have even the slightest chance of appearing in the map?

PS. Looking great already, holding my breath until its ready:)

Bulgaria will be making an appearance if I can get it working.

Also, Finland is not 100% done at the moment, if the city fits in, i'll include it. I wil make sure the region is Finnish though.

Chamboozer
Nov 02, 2008, 01:12 AM
Ok, bad news. The computer I was using to work on this failed, so I lost the map here. Fortunately, I had already transfered it to another computer so only my ability to make progress on it has stalled, the map is not lost. This just means its gonna take me a little longer than it otherwise would to get it done. No worries.

Fin Imperial
Nov 02, 2008, 10:11 AM
Aww... Hope it doesn't take too long.

Darkshadows
Nov 06, 2008, 06:41 AM
Wouldn't that lag quite a bit?Considering how AI dumbly moves units from city to city each turn.

Chamboozer
Jan 24, 2009, 06:51 PM
Ok. Wow. I don't know what happened here. Somewhere along the line I entirely forgot about this. Is anyone still interested? If so I can get right back to work on it, I still have the file. (plus this time around I have way way more knowledge on Europe's landscape having bought EU3).

kiwitt
Jan 24, 2009, 08:31 PM
I'm in. I add it to my mini-mod. :D

Don't forget the Siegfied line and the Stalin Line near Moscow (which I will add in a later in my WBS)

Chamboozer
Jan 24, 2009, 09:50 PM
Siegfried line was a myth (essentially). But Moscow did have some extra defenses.

I havent even tested what of the map exists, so im not sure how that kind of thing would effect balancing. I'll use what works best, obviously.

kiwitt
Jan 24, 2009, 10:22 PM
Siegfried line was a myth (essentially). But Moscow did have some extra defenses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siegfried_Line

Maybe use forts as opposed to actual fortresses. To indicate the lesser strength.

Chamboozer
Jan 25, 2009, 12:09 AM
I know, that's what I meant. Its not strong enough to make using Maginot forts a realistic reprisentation, but placing actual forts is pointless because the AI will just replace them. Besides, most meaningful Siegfried line construction took place after 1936.

kiwitt
Jan 25, 2009, 02:57 AM
An Alternative would be to use 4 Fortresses for the Maginot line and 1 Fortress per square for the Siegfried, Stalin and Mannerheim lines

Chamboozer
Jan 25, 2009, 12:41 PM
That's a good idea. Though I'll increase the stalin line to 2, and the mannerheim line to 3 for balance fo Finland doesnt get crushed.

Could you please get me a map of the Stalin line? I've only seen it in Hearts of Iron 2, so I can't exactly map it well off of that.

kiwitt
Jan 25, 2009, 01:30 PM
RE: Mannerheim Line. http://www.nortfort.ru/index_e.html Will give you an idea where to put the fortifications

RE: Stalin Line http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin_Line

It was along the Original Border with Poland,Baltic States. However, In 1939 it was broken up and moved forward to make the Molotov Line. Both lines were incomplete. So to reflect it in the game maybe have one Fortress per 4-5 squares.

NOTE: I am going to be giving my fortresses ranged combat of 1

dziban303
Feb 04, 2009, 03:47 PM
I don't often visit these forums, which is why I got my hopes all up when I started reading this thread, only to have them dashed quite thoroughly by the end.

I guess there won't be a huge Europe map for RtW? This is a bummer because I think the included Europe map leaves much to be desired.

Chamboozer
Feb 06, 2009, 12:37 PM
Uhh, no. I just began work on it again a short while ago. Don't expect it within the month, but 2 or 3 months from now it might be finished enough for a beta release. :)

If you'd like, I can get some new screenshots soon, though there's been no changes from before because right now i'm just making a list of everything that needs to be improves/changed. I made a lot of huge mistakes before that I need to change. (Scandinavia is the big one, but Britain looks odd too.)

nutnut
Apr 11, 2009, 04:00 PM
Having seen the Iberian Peninsula Screenshot I think it's brilliant but change Marbella to Malaga. I live next to Marbella and it's filled with nothing but bars packed with expats. Malaga was of strategic importance during the Spanish Civil War and has an airport. Marbella comes under Malaga Province. Other than that looking good. Can't wait to try out this map, if my computer can survive it.

Chamboozer
Apr 26, 2009, 11:49 AM
Ok, I've been looking the map over, and i'm pretty dissatisfied with it, so i'm gonna redo it from scratch. Hopefully it will go more smoothly this way, since I can avoid problems instead of trying to fix them and creating more.

Edit: and I'll be sure to offer screenshots more regularly, too. :)

kiwitt
May 01, 2009, 03:21 PM
I am looking foward to it.

My Mod is * paused * while I work out some bugs.

If the map can be created with no units, I'll do my best to place them accurately on it when it is finished.

Chamboozer
May 03, 2009, 04:05 PM
K, I'll leave the units out.

LaughingTulkas
May 15, 2009, 01:22 AM
Just saying I'd very interested in this map, and Kiwitt's mod and can't wait for them to be out! Your hard work will be very appreciated, both projects look awesome!

Chamboozer
Jun 04, 2009, 09:06 PM
I'll try to get a screenshot of the new outline this weekend, the more responses the better, I need to know what should be changed.

kiwitt
Jun 05, 2009, 09:09 PM
Look forward to it.

kiwitt
Jun 19, 2009, 03:59 AM
See my note: I'll be moving to v3.19 for any futher development and no U.E. 1.1

0.26 is my last release