http://www.civfanatics.net/methos/hof/staff/gauntlet.gifWhile the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we like to run time-definite competitions between updates that we call Gauntlets. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings will be counted towards the Gauntlet.

(*) Please read the >> HOF rules << (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/rules.php) BEFORE playing!


Settings:

Victory Condition: Diplomatic (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
Difficulty: Monarch
Starting Era: Ancient
Map Size: Large
Map Type: Any
Speed: Quick
Civ: Any
Opponents: Any
Version: 1.74.002, 1.74.003, 2.13.002, 2.13.003, 3.13.001 or 3.17.001
Date: 25th July to 25th August 2008
Must not play as Inca.

The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.

Nice setup. Any map type + any civ = good for my EQM box checking :) Shall try Celts/Lakes. Almost sounds like last NBA finals. :)

Finally, a major gauntlet at Monarch. First one since I started at the HoF that hasn't been higher or always war. (I'm pretty new here) I might even tackle this one if I can find the time while trying to complete my civ3 time game.

Strats: I think vanilla or warlords for this one. I want Liberalism to grab Radio for me and a great engineer or two in the wings to help rush the UN. Not sure if the CS slingshot using Oracle is possible/desirable at this level. Could also use the oracle for philosophy... on the way to liberalism.

Map type? Civ? Maybe I'll try Hannibal/Ice Age as I don't expect to win this one anyway but the Financial trait should help offset the poor terrain. I'm not sure I can win one at Monarch but maybe it is time to find out.

General tech path - worker techs, alphabet, oracle for cs slingshot, tech up the optics branch and to education, bee-line mass media, get liberalism for elec or radio. Quick will be quite the challenge as I learned in my recent quick/religious game. Often the time it takes to build relationships in that game was greater than the time to research. Probably not as bad in a UN victory though. But probably will be a very peaceful game...

Looks like an OCC to me...but then almost everything looks like OCC to me.

I've never tried a OCC. What is the benefit?

I've never tried a OCC. What is the benefit?

I've started a few OCC runs myself. With quick speed it's harder to grab land by force, so the player could be better off focusing purely on research. You won't need to bother building settlers, troops etc. I've been trying to Oracle/CS, sidetrack to Drama for GT then Paper/Edu (Oxford).

But still haven't been able to regenerate a decent start. Maybe I should dump my above stated non-optimal maptype/leader choice and go for a really good combination like Gandhi on Inland Sea.

I have another question, though: is the % pop required for the diplo victory dependent on the # of AI's? If so, how much? It seems to the less players the easier to keep the required % friendly, so it would be a subtle trade-off.

OCC gets extra national wonders in the city and Oxford U only needs one university, etc.

Unfortunately, quick speed greatly favors vanilla/warlords. BTS will have a hard time competing...unless the national park can make up for the timeline differences. It think it comes too late to have a large enough effect.

Nice setup. Any map type + any civ = good for my EQM box checking :)

Mehmed - check
Highlands - check

;)

Might have another stab with a better leader and map type as well.

Would OCC be better at Monarch? You should be able to grab enough land to be able to have a better research rate with multi-cities.

Just for clarification (first HoF game, counting down to Methos welcoming), Diplo victories via the Apostolic Palace are classed as religious and NOT eligible for this, right?

Just for clarification (first HoF game, counting down to Methos welcoming), Diplo victories via the Apostolic Palace are classed as religious and NOT eligible for this, right?

Welcome aboard :)

That is 100% correct. Have to win via UN for this one.

I aborted my EQM box-checking attempts and went for a quickie OCC with Gandhi on Warlords, which has put me currently @ #1.

Quickly ran through 1410 AD OCC. Lotsa way to improve (BTS).

Edit: Wow, that hit first place. Used inland sea and Mansa Musa. BtS is quite simple as there are so many favorable leaders, I didnt have to pull to democracy even.

Some mistakes I made: Messed up with GPP production and delayed academy few rounds. Didnt gift techs enough early enough to get AI research useful techs. Got granary resources traded late in the game.

Things that went nicely: Slighshot to CS, Hanging gardens for GE (actually got two but 2nd was for GA). Research heavy start plot with 2 gems, gold, pig, ivory. Outside fat got still more ivory, gems and late copper.

Gotta try vanilla and also try rushing.

-Dracandross

Managed to snag 1st with Bismarck/warlords/inland sea/OCC. I hadnt really played for fast diplo before so it took some games to learn what to do and what not to...

In the end heavy cottaging seemed the way to go, with scientists on the side whenever possible. The late techs are so expensive that a very high bpt is required. I managed to reach 700bpt by the end.
My other big goal was to get the AI to democracy, so you can just buy the damn UN if a GE fails to pop (which is good early - scientists settled will produce quite a lot of beakers by the end).

My first games I foolishly spent ages building missionarys, bribing civs to wage war etc. but in the end getting everyone happy just more or less happens on its own with free religion and some selective civic choices. (And lots of trading and gifting)

Also, I dont know if this is related to the leaders or the version, but in warlords there seemed to be much less hate between the AI. Very few instances of "we demand you cancel your deals with X" and such.

A nice game to get back to playing again :)

I dont think you get those problems if you pick right leaders. Also I used Monty to be the public punching sack. Makes certain you get enough diplo bonus and they have something to do. Although that lowers land for others and as you cant trade with monty it makes game bit slower but as said it makes life easier.

Pick Eliz, Mansa, Gandhi, Asoka, Frederick, Darius (bts), Hammurabi (bts), Lincoln (bts),

Roos and Hatty are strong picks but you cant get civic bonus for those (or lose it for mansa with roos at least). But most likely you dont need all to be your side. Most potent opponent to get against you in the vote is AI neighboring you as you dont take land they get it more.

Gotta hit another OCC run today. Tried 7 cities tactic (BTS) but failed miserably with 1500+ or so. It wasn't optimal start site but still ages later than OCC and way much work.

-D

Vanilla 1310 with OCC Mansa Inland Sea. Quite nice start with 2 golds, corn, 3 flood plains. 3 Incense, copper, few cows outside fatty to give trade power which was enough to keep people happy and didnt build theatres. CS sling, went for Hanging too and got GE as 3rd GP, after scientist & priest. Wasted 3 rounds on UN as didnt have workers placed well enough and had to chop in addition to GE. Got democracy few rounds before vote to pull all civs to friendly. Again had Monty to make life easier so I didnt have to try to make def pacts for few relation points.

Didnt mark down any special dates though :(

Wont go this route again, but still room for improvement for few rounds. Coulda still gift techs more aggressively. Wonder what place this gives.

-Dracandross

Vanilla 1310 with OCC Mansa Inland Sea. Quite nice start with 2 golds, corn, 3 flood plains. 3 Incense, copper, few cows outside fatty to give trade power which was enough to keep people happy and didnt build theatres. CS sling, went for Hanging too and got GE as 3rd GP, after scientist & priest. Wasted 3 rounds on UN as didnt have workers placed well enough and had to chop in addition to GE. Got democracy few rounds before vote to pull all civs to friendly. Again had Monty to make life easier so I didnt have to try to make def pacts for few relation points.

Didnt mark down any special dates though :(

Wont go this route again, but still room for improvement for few rounds. Coulda still gift techs more aggressively. Wonder what place this gives.

-Dracandross

How were you able to get the UN so early? I also used the CS slingshot, plenty of trading, and the only detour i made was for drama and music (total of 12 turns) and paper, education, liberalism, which cost me about 12 turns but sped up my further research. I had 3 gems in my fatcross, but still didn't get the UN before around 1500

And then, of course, Vicky had expanded into where monty had been (always fun to use him as whipping boy). So instead of Hatshepsut being my voting oponent, as i had prepared for, viky suddenly was the other candidate. Once i had that sorted out, Washington was becomming a troublemaker and didn't want to vote for me as supreme ruler. Took a while before i decided to just have everyone war him and get his votes that way, so i lost around 100 years after getting the UN :-/

How were you able to get the UN so early? I also used the CS slingshot, plenty of trading, and the only detour i made was for drama and music (total of 12 turns) and paper, education, liberalism, which cost me about 12 turns but sped up my further research. I had 3 gems in my fatcross, but still didn't get the UN before around 1500

And then, of course, Vicky had expanded into where monty had been (always fun to use him as whipping boy). So instead of Hatshepsut being my voting oponent, as i had prepared for, viky suddenly was the other candidate. Once i had that sorted out, Washington was becomming a troublemaker and didn't want to vote for me as supreme ruler. Took a while before i decided to just have everyone war him and get his votes that way, so i lost around 100 years after getting the UN :-/

Firstly 3 gems is not enough, you need food (preferably granary resource, floodplains will do too) to get pop fast up. You lose loads of rounds going for 2 food to increase instead of 5-6. More pop faster get cottages up and then work those mines. Tech lead is not essential as you will lead anyway alot. Nice to have if you can: stone (oxford,hanging), marble (oracle), loads of forests which you outside cross to get more prod.

Paper-edu-liberalism is quite must, you seemed to think its detouring.

Try to trade more, give techs freely when ever its not risking 1) you getting oracle or hanging gardens (mostly for free gpp for engineer to make easier to get it, if not enough production forget it, +1 pop is icing) and 2) Liberalism. Anything else is best to give away as soon as possible (as long as you have 1-2 tech lead so you can trade those techs they invent) so AI will research techs faster and help you.

You need decent start position with food capacity to support enough pop and possibly pump early them up to happycap so you get cottages improved.

I'd need to know what you do before I can say what is wrong. 1400 shoulda be easily doable. Dont go for drama/music you dont need GA for anything you will pop 3 gpps quite easily for 1 GA.

Happiness is useless, build warriors so you can trade all happy resources for food resources (and dont get archery as then you cant build warr but gotta go for archer).

Votes shoulda be easy, hatty is bad opponent as shes org relig and doesnt fit your free relig, Vicky is sometimes aggressive. To get +10 you need: either shared war or favored civic (or def pact but its way too slow to get in this), try to improve you voting too, its annoying to lose due votes.

In the end im only on 2nd place so someone else is better to answer this ;)

-Dracandross

Firstly 3 gems is not enough, you need food (preferably granary resource, floodplains will do too) to get pop fast up. You lose loads of rounds going for 2 food to increase instead of 5-6. More pop faster get cottages up and then work those mines. Tech lead is not essential as you will lead anyway alot. Nice to have if you can: stone (oxford,hanging), marble (oracle), loads of forests which you outside cross to get more prod.

Paper-edu-liberalism is quite must, you seemed to think its detouring.

Try to trade more, give techs freely when ever its not risking 1) you getting oracle or hanging gardens (mostly for free gpp for engineer to make easier to get it, if not enough production forget it, +1 pop is icing) and 2) Liberalism. Anything else is best to give away as soon as possible (as long as you have 1-2 tech lead so you can trade those techs they invent) so AI will research techs faster and help you.

You need decent start position with food capacity to support enough pop and possibly pump early them up to happycap so you get cottages improved.

I'd need to know what you do before I can say what is wrong. 1400 shoulda be easily doable. Dont go for drama/music you dont need GA for anything you will pop 3 gpps quite easily for 1 GA.

Happiness is useless, build warriors so you can trade all happy resources for food resources (and dont get archery as then you cant build warr but gotta go for archer).

Votes shoulda be easy, hatty is bad opponent as shes org relig and doesnt fit your free relig, Vicky is sometimes aggressive. To get +10 you need: either shared war or favored civic (or def pact but its way too slow to get in this), try to improve you voting too, its annoying to lose due votes.

In the end im only on 2nd place so someone else is better to answer this ;)

-Dracandross

Thanks for all the advice - though i already did most of what you suggested. Especially early-mid game i gifted away anything besides alphabet (you'd give that away too?) and liberalism and had no problems getting the oracle. Though of course, whenever possible i'd also take something in return for my techs.

Votes indeed aren't much of a problem as long as you plan ahead a bit.. but perhaps the way i got the votes is slowing down research. I basically get Monty in as whipping boy and as soon as possible have everyone fight him to get the +4 boni. I try to keep the civ i will probably face in the elections out of the war. Since i need philosophy and CoL first anyway, i use the two religions discovered there to keep the other civs at different religions and switch mine as i need for the moment. Usually i also get theology, cause i pop grat prophets all the time anyway and it just costs one. All that helps me make sure they vote for me - but perhaps the costant war with monti and the stronger dislike between the civs does slow down research a bit.

I guess i'll try again using an easily accessible food source on top of gold/gems, a more slim research path, and perhaps a different leader. I'm not sure why you picked Mansa (financial so that the increased commerce speeds up research?), Saladin with his Philosophical GP increase seemed perfect to me initially.

I did have a very promising game after my last post, but unfortunately played it wrong. I had taken Julius into the game cause he is easily convinced to start the world war against monti, but he ended up next to me and overran my city with praets instead. Never leave your back open to a roman mercenary. :-/

Well my finish was 1310 too, so only a score difference :P
Agree with your advice almost completely. However I never go for HG, seems like I have to delay useful stuff to fit it in, and I dont really care for the GE anyway, as the UN can be bought outright with democracy.
I had both Mansa and Ghandi in, and with agressive tech gifting/selling they will get there in time.
Of course if you play Ghandi you cant have him in... I used Bismarck for the wonders and expansive trait. Liz is probably the better choice. Maybe I will try regenerating a really good start with her and get a better date.

Edit: Salomo
I had no trouble getting the votes even with no war ever fought, i think that is better to keep the tech pace up amongst the AI. Also i never built a missionary.

Update:

Version: 1.74.002, 1.74.003, 2.13.002, 2.13.003, 3.13.001 or 3.17.001

But I dont get democracy at least not before UN is built. I research it while I wait for last vote. Theres usually enough time to fit in building hanging and chop rest of the forests.

Great game damn it was so close then.

-D

1250 OCC as Vanilla Liz. Shoulda been 1190 but I wasn't paying attention to relations and ended 3 votes short the first time. Winning time should be well before 1000AD. My start only had 1 gold, plains hill sheep and 4 floodplains. I had no stone or marble. And I popped 2 prophets from the Oracle. Had to self-research from MC up through Optics too.

Some observations:

1) Spiritual (i.e. Mansa) is not the best second trait. You tech to MM so fast you only really need 1 civics change to HR+Beauro+slavery/caste or pacifism/OR. Philo trait will save you more turns than a freebie into FM+FR since you can't run FR until you are researching MM. Plus if you play Mansa you can't do trick #3.
2) Using Lib for Radio is not difficult.
3) Trade CoL only to Mansa until he pops a GS and bulbs philo. Now you can trade for it.
4) Feed Mansa and whoever is researching the fastest the prereqs for the optics line.
5) Don't pollute the gene pool with Oracle. Instead try to get Mansa priesthood but not writing and hope he oracles MC for you. In any case make sure you found confu before the oracle is up.
6) If you have marble build GLib.

eh, couldn't you have made that post a few hours earlier

I just played liz on vanilla too, but again i only managed 1595, just like in my first try with saladin. But then again i did basically none of the things you suggested there and actually messed up with liberalism (wanted to use it for astronomy but forgot 1 prerequisite).

Perhaps i should just go back to domination wins... these diplomatic wins are a lot harder than i thought.

eh, couldn't you have made that post a few hours earlier

I just played liz on vanilla too, but again i only managed 1595, just like in my first try with saladin. But then again i did basically none of the things you suggested there and actually messed up with liberalism (wanted to use it for astronomy but forgot 1 prerequisite).

Perhaps i should just go back to domination wins... these diplomatic wins are a lot harder than i thought.

You're probably self-researching too many techs. As Liz, go wheel-pott-writ-alpha-lit(if marble)-CoL-CS-paper-edu-lib(don't finish)-pp-astro-sci meth-phys-elec-lib(finish)-radio(free)-mm. Divert only for pre-reqs you need but can't trade for in time.

Hi FiveAces - can't argue with your strategy since I finished in 1250 too but wouldn't have made the earlier date so you have this bolted down much better. I played Mansa, on the basis that the timing makes those few turns out of anarchy more valuable than Liz' philosophical trait, but that might not be right. The one thing I'm wondering about is recommending Great Library with marble - so how would you work that without a great engineer to rush the UN? In this game I couldn't see how to get enough gold to rush-build the UN with suffrage since the AI really doesn't build up much in the way of funds - are you advocating the Great Engineer Gamble?

The GE is not a gamble if you build the Pyramids and a Forge (to run an Engineer specialist) in the same city. That is 5 GE points per turn unpolluted. If you are Philosophical 10 points per turn. Build (or capture) the Parthenon in another city...you get the idea. I always have at least one GE by mid game.

Hi FiveAces - can't argue with your strategy since I finished in 1250 too but wouldn't have made the earlier date so you have this bolted down much better. I played Mansa, on the basis that the timing makes those few turns out of anarchy more valuable than Liz' philosophical trait, but that might not be right. The one thing I'm wondering about is recommending Great Library with marble - so how would you work that without a great engineer to rush the UN? In this game I couldn't see how to get enough gold to rush-build the UN with suffrage since the AI really doesn't build up much in the way of funds - are you advocating the Great Engineer Gamble?

We'll see how my current attempt pans out. I am going to gamble the last great person with engr and HG - Mesix is right it's much more likely with 5base gpp. If it's a GA/GS, I still think I can chop/build (don't see the AI researching democracy by then) the UN in <10 turns. I am certain GLib/philo saved that many - I double bulbed edu saving 6 turns which by itself saved 10 total turns after accounting for the lost beakers from the 2nd bulb. Also if the last great person is a GA or GE that alone offsets the spiritual trait.

Misotu is your 1250 in 2nd or 4th?

Twice I have found that I could haved chop the whole UN - if I had managed to do it right. It was an Inland Sea map and with 4 expanions there are alot of trees to cut.

1130 with Liz on warlords OCC.
I find I often lose the race to lib if I want to get radio, but it's worth it. Won on the second vote:p so I could have done it better.

The game before Gandi attack me:eek:. It was like being kicked by my grandmother.

Good time AAA and thanks for mentioning your date. I'm currently around 250AD on astro with PP and a GS in hand and a GS/GA next turn. Sounds like I might need a GE to make it close, although I do have a ton of trees.

My 1250 is currently showing as 2nd, so I guess AAA's submission hasn't been checked yet :) I'm sure you're right about Liz vs Mansa, but I don't think I'll be giving this one another try ... too many games still to play for EQM!

I also disagree that getting oracle-CS and polluluting GE pool is bad thing. It might mess your game but if you want to be 1st you have to take chances. Risk for bad GP is there but you can pop 3 GPs quite easily if you build hanging or pyramids. One GP can be used for GAge (at least with BtS).

Seems like Ive gotta give this another run as competition goes up.

Inland is quite nice for this although pangaea gives more variety, woulda be nice to get marble,stone and few gems&gold (whoaoaa dream on)

-D

Im down to 1190, and it is showing first atm. I actually hit 1190 thrice now, but none of them really close to the earlier cutoff (1130?)
OCC liz warlords inland sea also.
I have not been able to push lib further than physics or electricity, Mansa always gets there too fast. He is often the only one that gets prereqs in time, so I have to trade with him. Once he start getting the guilds path, there are very few turns left. I had a promising game ruined by him beating me to lib even though he didnt have philo and edu when i only had 5 turns to physics and one to lib.
What sealevels do you play with? I couldnt figure out if high or low was beneficial so u just kept it medium. I guess that could influence AI research somewhat.
One thing that has worked for me is pyramids on high food starts, running several scientists. But it seems situational, Oracle and Glib likewise.

Mansa is great trader but there are enough trading usually around. Is there any leaders that favor optics path over some other advancepath who are also diplomatically acceptable. Also option to get HR right away (or if oracle CS HR is not available at that time even) is nice as sometimes its problematic to get enough happiness.

That is most slowing part of game anyway.

Has someone counted is it worthwhile to play Vanilla, WL or BtS on this, there was those tables but cant remember how they went and rounds/time is not only factor anyway as techs have diff cost and GA is nice for fast univ/oxford/research.

-D

I have no clue about the subtle differences, and I dont even own BtS, but Warlords seems to work well.
I just submitted a 1070 finish. The lib -> radio worked for once (Mansa had poor lands). Built Oracle and Pyramids and was fortunate with GPs. But this was even with just one gold and 6 river cottages and no stone/marble. Lots of food and settled on PH gold though. Sub 1000 should be doable with luck.

I also disagree that getting oracle-CS and polluluting GE pool is bad thing. It might mess your game but if you want to be 1st you have to take chances. Risk for bad GP is there but you can pop 3 GPs quite easily if you build hanging or pyramids. One GP can be used for GAge (at least with BtS).

Seems like Ive gotta give this another run as competition goes up.

Inland is quite nice for this although pangaea gives more variety, woulda be nice to get marble,stone and few gems&gold (whoaoaa dream on)

-D

Build the Oracle in a different city than the Pyramids. It is best to specialize your GP points in different cities. That way you can plan for you GP instead of relying on luck. Having GP to build holy shrines is always good for y our economy.

@Mesix: most of the last posts are talking about OCC, so Oracle and Pyramids must be in the same and only city :)

Gah, sometimes i really hate this game!

I decided to try a different approach and started off pretty well, despite having suboptimal lands. Then asoka beats me to lib while i try to finish scientific method to at least get Physics free, and completely out of the blue Vicki attacks me. Not that she had any reason to attack me, i fulfilled her every wish and she was very very pleased with me, but somehow the stupid game decided it was time for her to attack me.

The people that coded the way friendliness suddenly turns to war in civ should get a treatment of that themselves.

I use high seas, slows the AIs down abit so they don't get lib on you.

With lots of trees you don't need a GE, with liz I get 10+ GPs (I build the great library, t of artemis and any other wonder I can get) then use them on any tech I can.

I'm having a hard time convincing Vic or Wash to vote for me:cry:, are there better leaders?

Ha! 1250 again. Although I had to self-research more techs and didn't get a GE. Was only 6 turns to chop/build UN though, and last GS saved 2 turns since he came in time for electricity. So with GE and trades for philo/monarchy would be close to AAA date.

So... I think I will combine the best of both attempts and oracle CS then build GLib and hope for no prophets.

AAA - hatty is good because of HR fav civic if she doesn't end up as your opponent.

But I cannot get anobody to research any of the astro pre-reqs. Even if I trade them all the available techs, they go for stuff like feudalism, music, etc before MC and by then I have edu and am out of stuff to research.

Also both times nobody had edu by the time I finished electricity so I am not sure why anyone is being beat to lib by then. Maybe they prioritize paper more on Warlords?

But I cannot get anobody to research any of the astro pre-reqs. Even if I trade them all the available techs, they go for stuff like feudalism, music, etc before MC and by then I have edu and am out of stuff to research.


I had the same problem until i just replaced asoka, ghandi and mansa with bismarck, liz and catherine. Perhaps it was coincidence, but by the time i was ready for astronomy, they had cleared the astro path for me.

Though it didn't help. My game is simply cursed. I've completed 4 games now, and every single one of those times i won in 1595. It's like anything else just isn't meant to be for me. The funny thing is, one vote before 1595 even people with friendly status might not vote for me, while in 1595 even people who i was only +8 with voted for me. It Just makes no sense whatsoever to me :-(



Also both times nobody had edu by the time I finished electricity so I am not sure why anyone is being beat to lib by then. Maybe they prioritize paper more on Warlords?

I play vanilla and at the latest whenever i'm studying physics someone else is about to discover lib. It got better when i took mansa and ghandi out of the game, but asoka and cyrus do like that direction of research too.

I guess either I am choosing the wrong AI leaders (does anyone have ideas for diplomatically compatible, peacemongering (or at least not irrationally attacking me) AIs that do not include mansa, ghandi, asoka, and cyrus?), or perhaps stopping to trade just before paper isn't early enough. Or perhaps i'm just cursed.

I think if i try again i will try an even more different approach. Perhaps pick monti, toku, alex, julius, djingis, etc. and try to keep them at constant war or something.

I had the same problem until i just replaced asoka, ghandi and mansa with bismarck, liz and catherine. Perhaps it was coincidence, but by the time i was ready for astronomy, they had cleared the astro path for me.

Though it didn't help. My game is simply cursed. I've completed 4 games now, and every single one of those times i won in 1595. It's like anything else just isn't meant to be for me. The funny thing is, one vote before 1595 even people with friendly status might not vote for me, while in 1595 even people who i was only +8 with voted for me. It Just makes no sense whatsoever to me :-(

I play vanilla and at the latest whenever i'm studying physics someone else is about to discover lib. It got better when i took mansa and ghandi out of the game, but asoka and cyrus do like that direction of research too.

I guess either I am choosing the wrong AI leaders (does anyone have ideas for diplomatically compatible, peacemongering (or at least not irrationally attacking me) AIs that do not include mansa, ghandi, asoka, and cyrus?), or perhaps stopping to trade just before paper isn't early enough. Or perhaps i'm just cursed.

I think if i try again i will try an even more different approach. Perhaps pick monti, toku, alex, julius, djingis, etc. and try to keep them at constant war or something.

Hmmm. Bismark is a very good idea. I'm playing Liz against hatty, ghandi, asoka, wash, roos, cyrus, and fred. Mansa I won't replace - he's by far the best chance of getting poly, monarchy, and philo early. Maybe drop cyrus. Cathy is good for trading but will cause worst enemy relations problems which you can't afford without favorite civics bonuses to offset.

I think you're problem with beating beat to lib is that you are not researching fast enough. Make sure you prioritize academy, CS, and edu if you're not already.

+8 (including hidden modifiers) is all that is required for the vote. +12 is required for friendly. The only reason a friendly AI will not vote for you is that they have higher relations (again including the hidden modifiers) with your UN rival. That's probably because of shared religion - bribe one civ into FR and you should get the vote.

I played liz against Mansa, Ghandi, Asoka, Roos, Wash, Fred, Vic, Churchill. Never lost vote and never got DOW'ed. But ofc some trouble with liberalism.
Some games someone gets MC fairly early but wont trade. I was still able to trade Mansa for it in time mostly, and sometimes machinery too.
I'm curious to the effects of high seas. I think it could be a double edged sword, as it probably increases the risk of war, and and AI might be more inclined to build wonders early if there is no room to expand. But I will probably try it and see if the AI techrate slows enough to matter. Faster contacts should be useful too.

Well you could just try vanilla - I'm playing low seas and not having a problem with liberalism. The "forgotten" AI don't even have CoL by the time I get MM. Course I haven't been able to trade for MC yet, much less machinery.

Another potential vanilla benefit - the attempt that i didn't build oracle it wasn't built until i had 5 turns left on paper, meaning that if that wasn't a late time for the AI (don't know when it usually gets built on monarch) it might be possible to slingshot education. Now that would certainly be worth the gp pollution.

Build the Oracle in a different city than the Pyramids. It is best to specialize your GP points in different cities. That way you can plan for you GP instead of relying on luck. Having GP to build holy shrines is always good for y our economy.

You cant build 2 cities if you play OCC :) And for this game OCC is at least equal to multicity.

-D

I use high seas, slows the AIs down abit so they don't get lib on you.

With lots of trees you don't need a GE, with liz I get 10+ GPs (I build the great library, t of artemis and any other wonder I can get) then use them on any tech I can.

I'm having a hard time convincing Vic or Wash to vote for me:cry:, are there better leaders?

Hmm thats really different approach. Gotta try similar GPs rock anyway. Which version u play. WL? as wash is good on vanilla and bts has loads of leaders?

Use monty for general war! Its fun to be war for 2000 years and never see his troops (slows AI down btw too)

-Dracandross

Ha! 1250 again. Although I had to self-research more techs and didn't get a GE. Was only 6 turns to chop/build UN though, and last GS saved 2 turns since he came in time for electricity. So with GE and trades for philo/monarchy would be close to AAA date.

So... I think I will combine the best of both attempts and oracle CS then build GLib and hope for no prophets.

AAA - hatty is good because of HR fav civic if she doesn't end up as your opponent.

But I cannot get anobody to research any of the astro pre-reqs. Even if I trade them all the available techs, they go for stuff like feudalism, music, etc before MC and by then I have edu and am out of stuff to research.

Also both times nobody had edu by the time I finished electricity so I am not sure why anyone is being beat to lib by then. Maybe they prioritize paper more on Warlords?

Well it depends on landmass and amount of leaders. I had trouble on some settings but on some they dont stand a chance. I sometimes get them to research a thing or two but then they wont want to trade those, GNN.

Hatty is good if you dont have to pull democracy else it blows. Usually avoided her just in case game goes badly.

I've actually tried a number of different things by now and didn't finish every game, cause in some i already saw early the time would be awful.

The main constant is that i play Inland Sea with high sea level.

In most games after the ionitial experiments i played Liz and had a variety of Asoka, Cyrus Ghandi, Frederick, Mansa Musa, Vicki, Washington, Roosevelt, Bismarck and Tokugawa (every world needs a bad boy) as AIs. Getting them to vote for me never was a problem, but of course i finished much later than most here. Although the leaders listed there add up to 10, i always played with 8 oponents - but i switched the AIs slightly now and then.

In my last game i changed that to Playing Saladin with Washington, Roosevelt, Fred, Cyrus, Vicki, Liz, Toku and catherine. That worked out well for keeping the AIs more on the optics path, but Catherine wouldn't fit in with the other AIs and stirred problems.

I also tried both building SH early and bulbing CoL, as well as reasearching CoL. Researching actually was faster, but also left me with less trading material. Probably still the better choice.

At first i looked for starting positions with gold or gems (usually gold cause i played most in a temperate world). Later, especially when playing Saladin, I looked for a Plains Hill with at least two food resources and at least two Flood Plains in order to build up a good specialist economy. My conclusion was, that the optimal starting position probably is plains hill, 4 flood plains, 2 wheat corn or rice, 1 gold, and 2-3 mountains and as much forest as possible in the fat cross, but i never found a starting position like that. (Edit: of course even more food resourcesor more gold is better, but finding those 3 resources together already seems difficult enough.)


Ah well, tomorrow i will try again to at least beat my very poor personal record... today i got to get some work done.

I decided to try to get optimal start loc on Rainforest. With few reloads I had easily 3 pigs and 2 other foods but luxury is very hard to come by. Wont get city growing pre HR max speed due that. I thought to give a shot with FIN/CHA leader (hannibal?). That would give happiness of base 5+CHA+Obelisk+1 resource=8. With 3 pigs or similar around that would be veeery soon and would give edge of 1-2 pop depending on map/leader for cottagespam. As all squares are technically all but hills are 2+ food and theres plenty of wheat, rice, corn, pigs and bananas for health (start 5, aque 2, res 8 nets 15 and no floods around)

Another option is to give Eliz a shot and try AAA chop method but rainforest is very forestpoor and chopping UN with 1 rnd might be impossible, maybe just try to get lucky GE then ;)

For optimal start you need alot of food and alot of research and preferably a hill or two for building when growth is capped or build is needed. I had 3gem, 2 sugar, corn but I failed to pop GE (had hanging, specialist and oxford) so my UN got screwed as I didnt get enough chops in time. I had 20 pop so it was pretty decent popwise.

-Dracandross

Well for my doing i'm playing a pretty good game. Got the UN in 1810, i won the election big time vs issabela. Made 1 more friendly to certainly get the victory votes i need. Then i got the leader resolution, but i was up against jao also huge empire like me and issa, but isa hates me and joao loves me.... why did it change to joao instead of isa? I would have won if it was vs me and isa.... :(

And how the **** do you get the UN befor 1600? I did the trick with getting astro line from the other civs and i was constantly in a minor lead... until now where joa has like 300 points more (becaus i gave all my stuff to him to surely get his vote) and issabela has a minor lead on me now....

Ow and one of my best friends rooseveld is now a vassal to issabela... should i play without vassals?

errr... and now my cities with 50+ culture get crunched by lvl 6 cities, english, russian, portugees and spanish... Got all the culture buildings build. 1 city has 123 culture with a cathedral and hermitage but it has lost 5 squares already. Most of my cities have starvation now....

-3th edit lol-
What does OCC means? realy tried to figure it out but it seems importand in this gauntlet.

OCC is one city challenge. Check it from start box and you cant build more than 1 city but you can build for example oxford university with 1 university.

You need only good starting point (try inland sea) and pick all but 1 friendly leader and 1 aggressive who everyone beats.

-Dracandross

OCC is One City Challenge. You only have your capital but are allowed more National Wonders in it. I've not played it but heard about it. I assume the AI also only have one city.

What I need to know from all these posts is how to get everyone friendly enough to vote for you. I tried a game in Vanilla as Liz on Inland Sea as other people have done and got UN built but although I could get voted leader, they wouldn't vote for the victory. How do you know in advance who your opponent will be and get everyone to be more friendly to you?:confused:

Thanks,
To get a leader vote for you they must be friendly or realy close to friendly, joao voted for me close to friendly. You probably know this but... you can pick the civilizations yourself but that probably isn't what you mean by "how do you know in advance who your opponent will be".

How about "no vassals" it is allowed, and i probably would have won with that option checked. If issa didn't vassal rooseveld i atleast came realy close to victory.

Most are more friendly to you as you are leading in techs and due that fact they ask 'give me this and that' which you ofcourse do.

Also if you have agressive civ who everyone else hate dow them (they need to be far away though) and bribe everyone to attack that. Most likely as you have longest war as its going all the time you get most + of it.

You can manage civs to get you chose our favorite civ to get most bonus outta it. Pick leaders who support that aim (you want to run HR, Burea, either Org rel/pacifism or free rel in the end)

To get them vote you pick friendly civs (those who have base relations +1 or +2) it applies to all relations thus making it easier to get it to friendly.

Also easy way to get votes but not optimal leader is Mansa (at least eliza strategy seems very solid). You get to change civics and relig as others ask it for extra relations.

-D

How do you know in advance who your opponent will be and get everyone to be more friendly to you?:confused:

On the F8 victory screen, the AI with the highest population is shown. This will be your opponent in the UN election. This can change and I've lost games by my opponent switching just turns before the election.

Alright, I managed to beat my 1070 date... But only by a better score. This time with an almost ideal run.
Two things went wrong. Third GP was a prophet instead of a GE, which sucked because i had to run an engineer until next pop, which is otherwise useless at this point (after Oxford). And of course missing out on a scientist.
The other thing was that Mansa was particularly fast this game, and forced me to use lib on Electricity. He was about three centuries faster than usual...

Ok so I'll just give a quick rundown.

Continued with OCC Lizzie on Inland Sea with high seas and all peaceful opponents.
Startposition had 3 gems, corn, banana and loads of rivergrass. No jungles in BFC but plenty otherwise, which meant a lower than usual number of forests.
Oh and stone in the third expansion (essential).

My early game strategy usually doesnt change.
Worker-warriors(work maximum food to grow to happycap ASAP)-library(immediately run 2 scientists)-workers(when capped, need at least 3)-wonders (Oracle and HG/Mids)
I decided 3 gems was enough to gamble with a education slingshot.
Tech path ag-ah-writing-alpha-myst(traded)-med-PH-CoL-Math (noone wanted to trade it)-CS (revolt to Bureau/HR/orgrel/caste)-paper.

It think I was lucky to make it, someone could have easily got it by then. Having to research CS without Bureau means it is only a small advantage. And you can easily use a scientist to speed up edu anyway.

Then chop like mad to finish HG/forge/Oxford/warriors (stone available around edu). I dont remember the dates but Oxford was completed in the BC years.

Techpath after edu: MC-machinery-PP-compass-optics-astro-philo (only 1 turn, hoping that Mansa would go for something else)- lib until 1 turn away-sci-phys (use 2 saved scientists)-finish lib->Electricity-Radio(ugh)-MM

Did get an engineer 2nd try fortunately. Settled the Physics scientist since another one was due, and used that one (and the prophet) for a GA during Radio, saving me one turn. Just enough forests left to ensure UN the turn after MM. But needed 3 turns in the end to make the earlier cutoff.

No trouble getting the votes although Churchill decided to hate Asoka, getting me -4 for trading with worst enemies.

I tried again last night and got a 1770 finish which is very good for me. Usually play prince level. Currently 10th place.

In that game I was crowded quickly between Fred and Mansa and only managed to get 5 cities so no Oxford Uni. No metals at all and struggled to get horses so I was vulnerable militarily.

All was going well till Monty came with hordes of Knights (Cathy let him through), razed Hastings which had my horses and ivory then captured York, the confucian holy city. Fortunately Fred beat up his forces for me and I took York back with a grenadier which I just traded techs for and upgraded a longbow.

Then I thought Roos would be my opponent in the vote as he had the biggest score so I changed civic to HR to please Cathy, then found she was the opposition! So I changed back ASAP to Univ. Suffrage so Roos would vote for me and that did it.

Eargh I cant understand how you pull out 1070. I had 3 gems, corn, sugar, ivory*2 on fat and farther cow, pig, dye*2, uranium, wheat. Ok I had 2 plains and 6 hills, theres slight disadvantage on those, 1 floody. No stone or marble though

Used Mansa, Joao, Hammurabi, Zara, Roos, Hatty, Wang and Monty for easy and certain votes.

CS sling, then took metal casting to make building fast and that was REAL fast (I cottaged hills as I had way too much hammers)
Oxford at 1AD, coulda ran few more scientists, I popped 3 GEs as with hanging only.
Trading really didnt give much boost, philo, myst, mono/polyteism, masonry and iw (popped bronze i think)

Actually I got about 10 huts and 2 scouts, some gold, 3 more exps, 1 tech. Coulda hit more techs and for right path with all those.

Finished 1220

Sidenote for those who have trouble on votes: Try leaders who give bonus to 'better rank difference' (bts). When gained all useful techs gift all away to get them above you and collect +1-4 relations cheaply. Also when they have that side + worse rank diff is +0 or negative so your opp certainly wont get votes.

-Dracandross

Wonder if I get more promising map and need to try again...

In vanilla/warlords votes come each 4 turns. How is it in BTS? IIRC there is a longer interval, but can't honestly remember.

My early game strategy usually doesnt change.
Worker-warriors(work maximum food to grow to happycap ASAP)-library(immediately run 2 scientists)-workers(when capped, need at least 3)-wonders (Oracle and HG/Mids)
I decided 3 gems was enough to gamble with a education slingshot.
Tech path ag-ah-writing-alpha-myst(traded)-med-PH-CoL-Math (noone wanted to trade it)-CS (revolt to Bureau/HR/orgrel/caste)-paper.


How did you manage to revolt to HR when you neither got Monarchy nor Pyramids? Or were you lucky enough to get it traded to you?

Edit: Damn, where is the function to delete this post? Overlooked the "-wonders (Oracle and HG/Mids)"

On the F8 victory screen, the AI with the highest population is shown. This will be your opponent in the UN election. This can change and I've lost games by my opponent switching just turns before the election.

Thanks Ozbenno, I didn't realise that it was so simple to find out. I always thought it was to do with their score.

I think I messed last save so I had to give another shot.

Tried carthage on rainforest for very high pop premonarchy and even higher afterwards.

Start 4gems (1 popped later), pigs, rice, close by silk, 1 plainhill(popped gem), 2 grass hills with 2 gems and rest grassland, loads of rivers, 1 lake (whine), some forests like 4 few farther.

Had to rely on engineer hit for bureau then metal cast and let hg and spec do the trick. Map is bit bad for food resources if you dont get them as I traded only 1 banana. City was real small max pop was 17 as health capped it. One more pig woulda been great but cant complain with 4 gems. Wasnt really style I thought it would play I thought Id get 4 pigs and go for 20 cottages.

Won at 1200 AD but most notoriously my opponent was MONTY?? We had ages of wars with multiple opponents. Well none voted him.

At least that gives few extra points for rain & carthage as they sucked Qscore wise.

-Dracandross

How did you manage to revolt to HR when you neither got Monarchy nor Pyramids? Or were you lucky enough to get it traded to you?

Edit: Damn, where is the function to delete this post? Overlooked the "-wonders (Oracle and HG/Mids)"

Actually that was just saying i build either. I didnt have mids that game, but the extra turns before revolting by having self researched CS instead of Oracling it made it available for trade from several AI.

1070 with liz again
An interesting strategy that worked to well on a different game - temple of artimis plus great lighthouse, 40 gold from trade, I was over 600beakers per turn. I got to Mass Media so fast that I wasn't ready for the UN or vote, so I tanked the fiinish and wasted 10 turns.

It is unfortunately hard to come up with a good water start on inland sea,

maybe I'll run mapfinder all night:)

Alright, i give up without even submitting my lousy 1595 wins :-(

I just can't figure out what i'm doing wrong. Up until my last game i thought perhaps high sea level made it harder in my previous games, but with low sea levels the only difference was that it took much, much longer to find an acceptable starting position. I ended up taking one with 2 gold, 1 sheep, 4 Flood plains and plenty of forest inside the fat cross and a corn just outside, because that simply was the best one i could find after several hours of searching with mapfinder.

I built a worker first, irrigated 2 flood plains and mined the gold, built a library as soon as i could, got got orcale and then hanging gardens, etc... My research was geared directly towards lit or drama or other things (except for lib, of course). There was nothing i could have reasonably left out and i don't really see how i could have employed more scietists or sped up research other ways.

What could have happened differently and probably would have saved me some years: (1) AI researching differently so that i wouldn't have to get the entire astronomy branch myself (2) I popped 2 great prophets, 2 great engineers and 1 great artist (built heroid epic, or whatever that thing for +100% GP points is). Had they all been great scientists i could have teched faster... but that seems to be mainly luck and nothing i can influence. At least i haven't figured out how to influence it besides sacrificing oracle/HG or trying to get great library fast.

1070 with liz again
An interesting strategy that worked to well on a different game - temple of artimis plus great lighthouse, 40 gold from trade, I was over 600beakers per turn. I got to Mass Media so fast that I wasn't ready for the UN or vote, so I tanked the fiinish and wasted 10 turns.

It is unfortunately hard to come up with a good water start on inland sea,

maybe I'll run mapfinder all night:)

Real decent and quite cunning plan. Anything else differently than usual. 600 beakers is quite impressive.

What btw you search for when running mapf? Sounds like waterbonus at least for that strat is nice. Doesnt placing along coast hurt slightly although then harbor is kinda nice health bonus, did you go for colossus? Might be too timetaking compared to total rounds and effect though.

-Dracandross

Alright, i give up without even submitting my lousy 1595 wins :-(

I just can't figure out what i'm doing wrong. Up until my last game i thought perhaps high sea level made it harder in my previous games, but with low sea levels the only difference was that it took much, much longer to find an acceptable starting position. I ended up taking one with 2 gold, 1 sheep, 4 Flood plains and plenty of forest inside the fat cross and a corn just outside, because that simply was the best one i could find after several hours of searching with mapfinder.

I built a worker first, irrigated 2 flood plains and mined the gold, built a library as soon as i could, got got orcale and then hanging gardens, etc... My research was geared directly towards lit or drama or other things (except for lib, of course). There was nothing i could have reasonably left out and i don't really see how i could have employed more scietists or sped up research other ways.

What could have happened differently and probably would have saved me some years: (1) AI researching differently so that i wouldn't have to get the entire astronomy branch myself (2) I popped 2 great prophets, 2 great engineers and 1 great artist (built heroid epic, or whatever that thing for +100% GP points is). Had they all been great scientists i could have teched faster... but that seems to be mainly luck and nothing i can influence. At least i haven't figured out how to influence it besides sacrificing oracle/HG or trying to get great library fast.

You dont irrigate FP if you want to get good score. Therefore you need food resource to get early growth . I get bearable maps within 10 mins so you definitely look something wrong (map that can go for 1400> easily). Also sounds like you had sheep on a hill(?), it doesnt give pop growth.

Why you go for drama? Go for HR and build 10 warriors and trade all lux resources away. Drama is completely waste of time tech, that tree has only GrLib for good. Also you had 2 prophs for nothing, artist is nice for MM. (well 1 proph for GA). You surely popped scientists too, right?

Also problem could be that you dont have enough cottageable squares and have too many hills. You definitely need pop around 17 to make decent run. Trade health for money / lux resources to allow growth. Sell loads of techs to support that, keep research at 100%

More info is needed for better analysis.

-Dracandross

You dont irrigate FP if you want to get good score. Therefore you need food resource to get early growth . I get bearable maps within 10 mins so you definitely look something wrong (map that can go for 1400> easily). Also sounds like you had sheep on a hill(?), it doesnt give pop growth.

Why you go for drama? Go for HR and build 10 warriors and trade all lux resources away. Drama is completely waste of time tech, that tree has only GrLib for good. Also you had 2 prophs for nothing, artist is nice for MM. (well 1 proph for GA). You surely popped scientists too, right?

Also problem could be that you dont have enough cottageable squares and have too many hills. You definitely need pop around 17 to make decent run. Trade health for money / lux resources to allow growth. Sell loads of techs to support that, keep research at 100%

More info is needed for better analysis.

-Dracandross

From what you say, it sounds like i need at least two good food resources (i.e. corn, wheat or pigs on grass). With the early reseatrch bonus gems or gold give, i need that as well. How in the world do you find a map with that - and enough other health resources around the fat-cross and some flood plains and hills within the fat-cross - within 10 minutes?

I've tried inland-sea and pangea. Tried both on low, medium and high sea levels as well as temperate and tropical climate. Yet in hours of map searching, i haven't found a single starting location like it seems i need.

Sheep on hill at least gives 4 food - but yeah, it is probably one of the worst food resources... but what to do when you get nothing decent?

And yeah, i popped some sci's too, but every non-sci popped puts me back 1k research points, so i only mentioned the non-scientists.


As to the drama&Lit... that was miswritten by me, i meant to say that it was geared directly to MM without going to drama or lit.

From what you say, it sounds like i need at least two good food resources (i.e. corn, wheat or pigs on grass). With the early reseatrch bonus gems or gold give, i need that as well. How in the world do you find a map with that - and enough other health resources around the fat-cross and some flood plains and hills within the fat-cross - within 10 minutes?

I've tried inland-sea and pangea. Tried both on low, medium and high sea levels as well as temperate and tropical climate. Yet in hours of map searching, i haven't found a single starting location like it seems i need.

Sheep on hill at least gives 4 food - but yeah, it is probably one of the worst food resources... but what to do when you get nothing decent?

And yeah, i popped some sci's too, but every non-sci popped puts me back 1k research points, so i only mentioned the non-scientists.

As to the drama&Lit... that was miswritten by me, i meant to say that it was geared directly to MM without going to drama or lit.

Two good food yes or one and floods but thats still suboptimal but they can be found easily. Then throw in gems or gold and voila. Inland has quite easily gold or gems. I just put mapfinder for 1gems or 2 gold (or manually) and pick best ones as visibility might reduce enough choosing (specially gems come in stacks).

+4 food is nice but for fast growth you need +5 or +6 it stacks up quite fast.

Decent research 1k research is 2 turns so that doesnt make big of a difference when you are round 1600 instead of 1200.

If you have to settle on start like that just dont farm those floods anyway. Growth is lower but at least research gets up (2 farms mean you start cottages when you hit 3rd pop by that time cottages have grown to give +7 coins which means +5 more than with farms).

So Id say you just need to think what you need on start or leave comp on for nite. Game takes about 2h to finish so its better get good map than play 3 bad ones.

Inland gives easily better maps than pangaea, also as you know map shape its easier to find trade routes. I dont see big difference with temperate or tropical.

In the end AAA would be better suited to answer this ;)

-Dracandross

Real decent and quite cunning plan. Anything else differently than usual. 600 beakers is quite impressive.

What btw you search for when running mapf? Sounds like waterbonus at least for that strat is nice. Doesnt placing along coast hurt slightly although then harbor is kinda nice health bonus, did you go for colossus? Might be too timetaking compared to total rounds and effect though.

-Dracandross

I rarely build the colossus as I try to never work a water tile unless it's a resourse. The coast is good for the extra health and trade, so I try to look for a location that actually looks like a harbour, so that only a couple of tiles are water. But with the Temple of Artimis plus a harbour you get approx 10 gold per trade route.

As for Salomo questions --do you have mapfinder? I remember going through map after map manually, mindnumbing! And then reading about other peoples starts and thinking Ahhh!! where do they come from?

The start you need is as you say -- two food, gold or gem, plus lots of river. Build a worker first and get on a food then cottages right away after awhile the second food and mines( lots of trees and jungle can be a problem as you can't build cottages right away). I tech straight for Alphabet then trade for all the starting techs.

If you set mapfinder to look for mining resources, it will find gold, silver, or gems. Those are the only mining resources visible at 4000 BC. Look for two food and one mining resource and you should find plenty of maps. I like to also throw in no jungle tiles...that will ensure that the gems are available at the beginnning of the game as they often spawn in jungles.

I rarely build the colossus as I try to never work a water tile unless it's a resourse. The coast is good for the extra health and trade, so I try to look for a location that actually looks like a harbour, so that only a couple of tiles are water. But with the Temple of Artimis plus a harbour you get approx 10 gold per trade route.

As for Salomo questions --do you have mapfinder? I remember going through map after map manually, mindnumbing! And then reading about other peoples starts and thinking Ahhh!! where do they come from?

The start you need is as you say -- two food, gold or gem, plus lots of river. Build a worker first and get on a food then cottages right away after awhile the second food and mines( lots of trees and jungle can be a problem as you can't build cottages right away). I tech straight for Alphabet then trade for all the starting techs.

So in the end your start positions are just bit more optimal it seems. At least those words are just like Id done them but still 100 years behind. Gotta load one of your maps and give it a shot to see if I lose on that 200 years too ;)

-Dracandross

This Gauntlet is complete. Results:

1st Fluroscent 1070 AD - 28520 pts
2nd AAA 1070 AD - 27276 pts
3rd Dracandross 1200 AD

This one was real close. We had to go to points for the tie breaker. Congratulations!

Congratulations!


(And yeah, i have mapfinder, but i guess i don't use it effectively enough. I always ran it via the alt+m command while sitting next to it, and stopped whenever i saw a gold or gem. Probably better to indeed play with the rules a bit and let it run over night, or something... ah well, there will be another gauntlet to try that :-) )

Ah 3rd, not bad. Specially as both 1 and 2 were so far away that it woulda been hard to press over those.

Congrats for Fluoro and AAA.

-Dracandross