http://www.civfanatics.net/methos/hof/staff/gauntlet.gifWhile the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we like to run time-definite competitions between updates that we call Gauntlets. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings will be counted towards the Gauntlet.

(*) Please read the >> HOF rules << (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/rules.php) BEFORE playing!


Settings:

Victory Condition: Score (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
Difficulty: Chieftain
Starting Era: Ancient
Map Size: Huge
Map Type: Any
Speed: Normal
Civ: Any
Opponents: Any
Version: 1.74.002, 1.74.003, 2.13.002, 2.13.003, 3.13.001 or 3.17.001
Date: 10th August to 10th September 2008
Must not play as Inca.

The highest score wins.

I thought the point of playing the major was that they should be difficult? I guess something like big and small might be good for this with sushi.. It'll be boring no matter though and getting as many future techs as possible after you get maximized pop will be key..

This M-Gauntlet will only help to gain the standard QM and low EQMs. I think, the games should be mixed. This evening i shall try to start... i am interested, how many players will submit at the end. My last submission brought only a few points... we will see, what a score will be possible... i bet, that i shall not be the winner... :)

I figured on the heels of the Rome domination on Emperor, I could just continue more of the same. It is going well but damn this is a HUGE map. I think Keshik may be a better choice than Praets though it really isn't about early, its about population. I spent about 6 hours playing last night and still couldn't finish. Once the boss leaves, I'll get rolling again.

I was able to get 370K out of the emperor domination but I suspect that it will be difficult to get that kinda score out of chieftain.

I figure with those setting and month we might see a battle of the in the 500,000 to 1,000,000+ score range. I guess that is just too hard for folks... :mischief:

I figure with those setting and month we might see a battle of the in the 500,000 to 1,000,000+ score range. I guess that is just too hard for folks... :mischief:

Well I wasn't anywhere close to those scores on this one but if my game is accepted, I'll be in first place for a little while since there aren't any games yet.

WooHoo!

First place. I'm 1 out of 1. Bring it on guys if you think you can beat me:king:

I figure with those setting and month we might see a battle of the in the 500,000 to 1,000,000+ score range. I guess that is just too hard for folks... :mischief:

I think that higher difficulties get the higher scores (eg killercane's 1,000,000)because of different modifiers.

Marathon is also better for higher scores (although much more tedious).

I'd guess we might see scores between 300,000 and 500,000 ? in this gauntlet.

The current high score in the HOF for these settings is 70k so it will be interesting to see how it pans out.

Well one of your biggest disadvantages is not being able to run around with settlers for too long on normal speed at the beginning. Doesnt the new patch give more hut gold though? You can keep research up for longer.

I just tried to play some MF-generated maps. Each time I load the next game after more than 1 turn Civ4 crashes:mad: I haven't had any crashes since a very long time - perhaps because I am not playing huge maps. I shut down all uncessesary programs and reduced the graphics to low - no change. The only chance to load a new map without crashing is "Exit to Main Menu" and load from there. Perhaps I should skip this gauntlet :sad:

I just tried to play some MF-generated maps. Each time I load the next game after more than 1 turn Civ4 crashes:mad: I haven't had any crashes since a very long time - perhaps because I am not playing huge maps. I shut down all uncessesary programs and reduced the graphics to low - no change. The only chance to load a new map without crashing is "Exit to Main Menu" and load from there. Perhaps I should skip this gauntlet :sad:
I have had similar problems. It doesnt seem related to map size on my system. You just have to live with going back to the main menu as that seems the best way to assure there arent problems.

I have had similar problems. It doesnt seem related to map size on my system. You just have to live with going back to the main menu as that seems the best way to assure there arent problems.So I am not alone with this "new behaviour" - I can live with the workaround too, its just that I now have to live with the fear of getting an in-between-turns crash :(

I figure with those setting and month we might see a battle of the in the 500,000 to 1,000,000+ score range. I guess that is just too hard for folks... :mischief:

I bet, i won´t be better than 5000 points. Who want to bet against me?:sad:

Well one of your biggest disadvantages is not being able to run around with settlers for too long on normal speed at the beginning. Doesnt the new patch give more hut gold though? You can keep research up for longer.
The new patch limits the # of Corp Executives the same way as Missionaries. Now that sucks, even though the # is higher, like 4 or 5. The old fashioned way of switching to Slavery and whipping like 20 or 30 of them at once no longer works.

The new patch limits the # of Corp Executives the same way as Missionaries. Now that sucks, even though the # is higher, like 4 or 5. The old fashioned way of switching to Slavery and whipping like 20 or 30 of them at once no longer works.
I dont think its too big a factor. You have to build up enough to get to 5, the only problem is travel time, so maybe rails solves the problem. You can achieve maximum spread in 25-30 turns still. That is still pretty fast on marathon, but here it definitely is a disadvantage.

Probably rails + producing exec from city A to go spread in city B and rushbuy instantly a new exec in city C will work.

I dont think its too big a factor. You have to build up enough to get to 5, the only problem is travel time, so maybe rails solves the problem.
In my experience, it is a problem. Whatever rail's help can be, you still cannot spread corps to more than 5 cities per turn. If you have like 100 cities, it is a problem.

Well I tried to bypass the corp completely and just get an early win. I finished a conquest pre turn 200 using a Keshik rush. My score was about the same as a dom with sushi.

The high score in the HOF is a diplo so maybe a peaceful approach. Say maybe AP. Maybe I'll try that next.

Man what a boring game.

I saved it about 200 turns into the monotony. I'm so far ahead of every AI that the game is just boring. I have conquered most of the map. I have one ally, I am finishing up two wars, and there are two other civs left to take after that.

I think I need a beer.

I thought you were going to try a religious win?

I'm trying for a religious win the Catholic way...by force!

So i am gonna try my first major gauntlet. And my first huge map as well (hope my computer can handle it as it would be a shame to crash after 8 hours).

So my strategy will be imperialistic and financial wich gives me victoria. I don't go for roman preatorians as i figure they will be obsolete rather fast on normal speed even with chieftain difficulti i guess. The redcoats won't help me much i think. But financial will later give me the lead i need hopefully. plus that i want sushi or cereal spread fast befor i get the winning land mass. Never tried these corporation to increase score but i heared they work pretty well. Anyway, i try max civs on pangea. Any further sugestion are welcome, i go generate some nice starts now :D.

Hmmm also something to think about, as worker stealing is not mutch of a option... Maybe agrasive barbarians to further more increase the score, as i play with 17 opponents and high sea there isn't to mutch fear for being overpowered by the barbarians. Better rethink this very well....

I finally finished mine at 1600AD with 215K. I played as Asoka (Spi+Org) on Great Plains. I axe rushed 1 AI in the beginning, also popped 9 Settlers and 6 Workers from the goody huts.

Time line of some key events:

1840 BC (turn 54) -- Captured London (1 Axe v. 1 Warrior)
1680BC (58) -- CS Slingshot
1120BC (72) -- The Pyramids
200BC (107) -- Oxford
250AD (125) -- Biology
275AD (126) -- Natl. Park
400AD (131) -- MT
780AD (149) -- Mehmed dead
920AD (156) -- Cereal Mills
940AD (157) -- Justinian dead
1040AD (164) -- Mining Inc
1110AD (171) -- Catherine dead
1240AD (184) -- Isabella dead

After that I beelined to FTs to get some health/happy bonuses, and simply spammed cities and corps as fast as I could until 1600AD (turn 230), where I hit the Domination. At this point my score was still growing, but not so fast, like 0.5K per turn.

Overall, it took about 70 turns to spread Cereal Mills to my 120+ cities, and I tried to do this as fast as I could. Still, due to the new limitations on the # of executives, it took some 30-40 turns longer than usual.

Crap, i failed... tried rushing 3 with charriots but by the time i attacked the 3th he had 3 archers vs 5 charriots, i waited to connect bronze and returned with 6 axes pretty fast but he had build walls with 6 archers so my 5 charriots and 6 axe didn't had a chance. If i had defeated him i would own atleast 1/3 of the continent shame on me... got beaten by AI on chieftain... lol. Next try... was a nice map.. no good huts though...

Crap, i failed... tried rushing 3 with charriots but by the time i attacked the 3th he had 3 archers vs 5 charriots
If you're up to early rushes, try Cyrus, he rocks. Just don't forget about cottages early on, otherwise it'll be hard to stay afloat as your empire grows.

Also, if you play with min. opponents, you'll have a chance to finish the conquest in the BC era.

However Cyrus is not so good at score milking, Imp. sure helps to spam cities, but Cha. becomes pretty useless mid game. I think the most useful traits for this Gauntlet are Spi, Org, and Exp.

If you are not Cyrus, and face Archers, forget it and expand peacefully, remember: 1 Settler requires less hammers than 5 Chariots. You'll have plenty of land, the AIs at this level are too damn slow.

Whoohaa! atleast i broke a record here.... but how? lmao..

I axe rushed 1 AI in the beginning, also popped 9 Settlers and 6 Workers from the goody huts.


9 Settlers from and 6 workers from Huts? Thats bizarre. Based on the odds that means you popped something like 45 huts? :crazyeye:

Whoohaa! atleast i broke a record here.... but how? lmao..
Your settler kicks the bucket after a certain number of turns. Forget what turn number it is for marathon...

9 Settlers from and 6 workers from Huts? Thats bizarre. Based on the odds that means you popped something like 45 huts? :crazyeye:
I dunno how many. I know for sure that I built my capital on turn 11, and the rest of the cities much later. So, all that crazy crowd of Settlers and Workers was running around for the new huts. Indian UU is very good at this, they can make 3 tiles per turn. Excellent scouts.

I got 3 workers and 2 settlers from huts. I have not built any settlers so far.

The game crashed in 1260AD. I am in the process of finishing off Bismark and Mohamed II with my rifelmen (they still have archers and swordsmen defending). I have three civs left to conquer after that and my troops are in position to roll all three at the same time.

Unfortunately the game crashed :mad:. I will continue from my autosave tomorrow night. I think my score was about 40K and growing rapidly as I crashed.

Your settler kicks the bucket after a certain number of turns. Forget what turn number it is for marathon...

What do you mean? I wasn't even building a settler... Is there actually a logical explenation behind this?

And should i spread sushi to my vassals? Atleast, do i get the population of vassals too? Anyway don't be afraid i beat you guys... got 47000 points.... still increasing by +-600 but i won't tag the 500K lol....

Arg managed to get score up a little more each turn.... But the damn sushi corp made me win to mutch land for domination. Just maybe i do another try on a "flat" map but then with cereal corp. Can anyone tell me what map holds the most corn,rice,wheat? 51600... wich probably is good enough for last place... but hey i finished a major gauntlet <now you applaud>... thank you!

-edit-
Well atleast 3.13 counts here... my minor gauntlet didn't count overlooked it.

What do you mean? I wasn't even building a settler... Is there actually a logical explenation behind this?

And should i spread sushi to my vassals? Atleast, do i get the population of vassals too? Anyway don't be afraid i beat you guys... got 47000 points.... still increasing by +-600 but i won't tag the 500K lol....
Well I thought you were talking about moving the settler around before founding a city (to pop huts) but now I see a black outline around your former capital so a barb must have snuck in and taken it.

Arg managed to get score up a little more each turn.... But the damn sushi corp made me win to mutch land for domination. Just maybe i do another try on a "flat" map but then with cereal corp. Can anyone tell me what map holds the most corn,rice,wheat? 51600... wich probably is good enough for last place... but hey i finished a major gauntlet <now you applaud>... thank you!

-edit-
Well atleast 3.13 counts here... my minor gauntlet didn't count overlooked it.
After reading about Andrei's game I had a look to which map Mills might be good on (as I agree Sushi culture is a big pain for score). Rainforest seems to have massive rice for 30-40 food. And it will be easier to acquire a number of these sources than building boats and workboats, etc. The problem is how to promote all your scouts to woodsmen, and I think the only answer there is play with barbarians.

And should i spread sushi to my vassals? Atleast, do i get the population of vassals too? Anyway don't be afraid i beat you guys... got 47000 points.... still increasing by +-600 but i won't tag the 500K lol....


You should not even have any vassals in my opinion. You only count them for 50%. At chieftain level you should be able to do much better than an ai vassal. Spreading sushi to them if you have them may or may not help - depends a lot on the civ their civics and what they do with pop. Better to eliminate them or leave them with a one city backwater for trade.

After reading about Andrei's game I had a look to which map Mills might be good on
I would not discount Sushi, btw.

Forget Railroads, they help but not much. Build Airports ASAP. At this point your research must fly, so if you beeline Flight right after Railroad, you'll get them before the RRs are actually built.

Another thing is how # of instances of crops is converted into # of food. In my game I had:
+6 food out of 16 crops (10 wheat + 6 corn)
+7 food out of 18 crops (10+8)
+8 food out of 21 (12+9) -- that was the max in my game :(

So, it looks like Cereal's conversion factor with these map settings is 0.4.

To get 30 food you're going to need 75 resources. For Sushi, I guess, the conversion factor is worse. On maps like Archipelago/Tiny Islands culture must not be a big problem, the question is how many extra food you can actually get.

As for building those fishboats, I don't know since then, but in the latest patch they can cross oceans after Astronomy, which means you don't have to build them in your island cities, but in high prod coastal mainland cities.
http://www.andrsib.com/pic/Workboat.jpg

I would not discount Sushi, btw.

Forget Railroads, they help but not much. Build Airports ASAP. At this point your research must fly, so if you beeline Flight right after Railroad, you'll get them before the RRs are actually built.

Another thing is how # of instances of crops is converted into # of food. In my game I had:
+6 food out of 16 crops (10 wheat + 6 corn)
+7 food out of 18 crops (10+8)
+8 food out of 21 (12+9) -- that was the max in my game :(

So, it looks like Cereal's conversion factor with these map settings is 0.4.

To get 30 food you're going to need 75 resources. For Sushi, I guess, the conversion factor is worse. On maps like Archipelago/Tiny Islands culture must not be a big problem, the question is how many extra food you can actually get.
Well there are a couple things that go into it. Cereals is .37 FPR (food per resource) and Sushi .25; the best I have had Sushi produce on a non archi map is 45ish food (Big and Small). The best would obviously be an islands map, low food population count (=more score), more free population from water tiles, and high seafood, Ive seen some get 55-60 food there. However, that is a logistical nightmare on huge in putting out ships and things and in general building a lot of stuff you dont have to build on a single landmass map, which takes longer in game and real world playing time.

I looked at Great Plains, there seems to be on average 30 or so CM resources. Rainforest has over 100 at my estimate, done scientifically by counting in Worldbuilder.

Rainforest has over 100 at my estimate, done scientifically by counting in Worldbuilder.
Well, this does sound attractive. Maybe I'll try it as well someday.

Wow, it seems like you are talking about a completely different game than I have with my vanilla version. Will it even be possible to compete in this without the expansions giving "sushi", "cereals" and "Corp Executives"?

I finally finished mine at 1600AD with 215K.

....

...until 1600AD (turn 230), where I hit the Domination.

So "Victory Condition: Score" does not mean you have to win by having the hioghest score in 2050 (or whenever the last turn is) but can win in any you choose?

So "Victory Condition: Score" does not mean you have to win by having the highest score in 2050 (or whenever the last turn is) but can win in any you choose?
No, that would be "Time Victory".

"Score" indeed means any victory condition you like (Dom is the most straightforward, but it could be anything else like Space or Diplo), only this time it is not the finish date which is taken into account, but the score.

I'm not getting anywhere near that score. My current game is on turn 242 with one opponent left for a conquest. My score is about 50K or so.

215 is a pretty decent result. 50 is about an average game I would think if you just play straight on without any attention to pop maximizing which is the critical bit for a really high result.

Whether 215 will win is another matter. There are certainly folks out there who can really ramp scores up - though the huge map with a faster speed presents some challenges. Wastin Time hit 647 awhile back but that was an epic chief on a standard.

I will be surprised if 215K is not beaten. GPlains is a good map for "test runs" due to exceptional production and early science, but definitely not the best one for score milking.

I have been playing on Terra. You can conquer pretty much the entire initial continent and leave the "New World" alone. As long as you leave one AI with a backwards, land locked, city, he will never progress and you will never hit the Dom limits.

Started a rain forest map and had a great start. Tons of production with enough food to support it and a long river nearby just packed with floodplains. Huts kept popping gold or tech (that I was currently researching), but other then that, it had great possibilities.

Then my capital grew and I didn't see the alert.......:eek:

.....check the options screens and realize I forgot to load the HOF mod! :mad:

After reading about Andrei's game I had a look to which map Mills might be good on (as I agree Sushi culture is a big pain for score). Rainforest seems to have massive rice for 30-40 food. And it will be easier to acquire a number of these sources than building boats and workboats, etc. The problem is how to promote all your scouts to woodsmen, and I think the only answer there is play with barbarians.

I just tried a RF map with washington. The jungles really impede growth and you need massive amounts of workers to chop. I stagnated and waited too long to attack anyone so the game went no where.

I still can't see how you can get CM or sids so early that you can take 70 turns to spread it and still finish in 1600.

I just tried a RF map with washington. The jungles really impede growth and you need massive amounts of workers to chop. I stagnated and waited too long to attack anyone so the game went no where.

I still can't see how you can get CM or sids so early that you can take 70 turns to spread it and still finish in 1600.
RF is awesome; cant believe I missed its milking potential until now. I have too many cities to count with 3 or more pigs.

Try an expansive civ (Peter, Pacal, Zulu are all good), build 10 towns with granaries, and figure out how to whip once on a size 4 city and get 2 workers from the one whip. You will have enough workers (at the beginning at least) to get a good start. And 5 or more free settlers helps. Build 2 chariots/impis/holkans asap and send them to 2 nearby capitals. If you take more than 2 maintenance starts to hurt badly since starting city sites are so far away.

Im not participating in the gauntlet, but rather chose to play Marathon Chieftain to try to beat WT's score.

I guess I'll try Mehmed. :)

Since Granaries and Courthouses are the only city improvements I want in every single fracking city of mine, making both of them half priced won't hurt.

:coffee:Well the first attempt rolled up at 207 using Catherine. Only had one free settler. Ended up with about 90 cities give or take a couple. Used a Big & Small with 17 civs and massive continents/tiny islands which didnt end up being quite the configuration I wanted - there being a decided deficiency in the fishing opportunities. So back to the drawing board .... :coffee:

Can someone please explain how it is possible to get such high scores? My scores seldom get out of 4 digits, yet you are talking about 6 and 7 digit scores!

Can someone please explain how it is possible to get such high scores? My scores seldom get out of 4 digits, yet you are talking about 6 and 7 digit scores!For higher levels you can have a look at http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=260902&page=4

For this HoF your 1st target should be a 100k score. To achieve this I propose Darius on "Terra-low sea-no barbs-no city racing" and off course non-protective, non-aggressive opponents. Start researching AH and use your scout to pop as many huts as possible, you should at least get 1 settler and 1 worker so you haven't to produce them yourself. Now go for an Immortal rush to your nearest 2-3 neighbors.

Research as fast as possible to Milit-Trad., upgrade your Immortals to Cuirassiers, and conquer the rest of the continent. Just grant one tiny icy-city to the last civ. Now focus research to Medicine (from Liberalism) and use your GM (from Economics) for Sushi.

Settlers and Managers is now the only thing to produce. New cities get Granaries and Courthouses and after that "Wealth". With all the money you can buy Settlers and Managers and Granaries and Courthouses (Universal Sufferage). Build Cities at every possible spot, spread Sushi, buy infrastructure and check your score each turn. As soon as you notice a decline or drop of it, get this last foreign city ...

Can someone please explain how it is possible to get such high scores? My scores seldom get out of 4 digits, yet you are talking about 6 and 7 digit scores!
It's all about pop, that is, food. Try to build as many cities as you can, farm everything around, run Caste and Merchants for income, also build wealth. If you play BtS, go for food corporations, and spread them to all your cities. Of course, in the beginning you need 2-3 cottaged cities and 8-10 production cities.

Place initial cities near corp resources, then build more cities in between, place them 2 tiles away from each other. To deal with huge maintenance costs, run Free Market, build Courthouses, and all financial buildings in the corp headquarters city.

In addition to food corp you can found Mining, for better production and more income through headquarters. Make sure to found them both in the same city (usually the one with religious shrine) and build Wall Street there.

The new patch limits the # of Corp Executives the same way as Missionaries. Now that sucks, even though the # is higher, like 4 or 5. The old fashioned way of switching to Slavery and whipping like 20 or 30 of them at once no longer works.
Ive figured out that with rainforest, you can found Sushi AND Cereal Mills, and spread them both (10 cities/turn) until you can buy CM out from the sushi cities. Most of your fpt comes from rice anyhow.

But I still can't get a score of more than about 2-3000? Am I looking at the wrong kind of score?

But I still can't get a score of more than about 2-3000? Am I looking at the wrong kind of score?

The score is the finish score the one that posts in the hall of fame. The one that shows in game in is projected forward to "an if you win on this turn score". The two are only equal at the end of a time game. If you are using BTS you can mouse over your score and see the projected result. I don't recall if that applied in Warlords or Vanilla.

But I still can't get a score of more than about 2-3000? Am I looking at the wrong kind of score?
Just hover the mouse over your name and you will see "Score by winning this turn". This will be your score ...

Ohhhh. So you can get a massive score by somehow balancing up Civ point scoring items with finishing really early? So no point in sitting and building a huge empire with large population if it takes you to the 21st century to do it?

So no point in sitting and building a huge empire with large population if it takes you to the 21st century to do it?
Exactly right. You can start as early as 4000BC, and keep going until your score stops growing. Then finish the game ASAP by whatever victory condition.

I decided to try this one since it matches my rusty skill level. I think I ended it too early. I still had a lot of population growth potential. Still I managed to break 100K. :D

Wow, it seems like you are talking about a completely different game than I have with my vanilla version. Will it even be possible to compete in this without the expansions giving "sushi", "cereals" and "Corp Executives"?


Vanilla has no chance to compete. It's not just the corporations, but also BTS scores will be double or more for the same finish date/population, tech, etc.

We just recently had a Chieftain/score gauntlet on standard size :600K +
Huge could beat that if someone has the patience/computer power.

I just spent about 6-7 hours playing it again only to get a lower score (96K). This time I went for suschi and everything. Don't you hate it when you can't beat your first attempt. :sad:

I tried Rainforest as Mehmed, and initially it seemed to be fine, but as I approached 1600AD with less than 100 cities and a score about 90K, even though Cereal was adding about 30 food to my cities, I got a bad feeling. By 1700AD I had about 150 cities, over 2 billion pop, and a score less than 200K and going down. So, I abandoned this one. I guess I'll try sushi on Big and Small next time.

It's been ages since I tried chieftain and it was good fun. I don't normally play huge but it was good to try the infinite city sprawl idea that I've read about on the forums. Unfortunately, I don't have BtS so my Warlords score was about 65k.

I tried Rainforest as Mehmed, and initially it seemed to be fine, but as I approached 1600AD with less than 100 cities and a score about 90K, even though Cereal was adding about 30 food to my cities, I got a bad feeling. By 1700AD I had about 150 cities, over 2 billion pop, and a score less than 200K and going down. So, I abandoned this one. I guess I'll try sushi on Big and Small next time.This is the same experience I had: Playing rainforest takes ages to cut down all the jungles! It is nearly impossible with normal speed to cut jungles, build workers, settlers and executives to get a nice score. I stopped my try on rainforest. Currently I am trying Big&Small with Charlemagne, but again with only 5 parallel executives it takes forever to spread it to all those tiny islands. I think I will try another Terra but with Charlemagne then because the "Rathaus" is really a nice boost to cut down the maintenance; found a city, spread Sushi, build Rathaus one turn, rush-buy it and your new city gives gold from turn 2 after being found.

I guess with Big And Small a change of tactics is needed.

1. Play on big landmass with tiny islands, high sea level.
2. Expand over the main landmass first, build enough Settlers, Galleons, and Workboats, but don't settle on islands just yet.
3. After the main continent is almost settled (enough AIs are killed with Cuirassiers and Cavs), and Sushi is spread to most of the cities, dump all that army of Settlers on islands, and deploy Workboats as well, but don't build the nets.
4. Spread Sushi to island cities, followed by Mining Inc, using airlifting.
5. Build all those fish nets at once.
6. Sit back and wait until the score stops growing.

This way you can cut down maintenance during the spreading phase, and even make a profit from Headquarters.

This is the same experience I had: Playing rainforest takes ages to cut down all the jungles! It is nearly impossible with normal speed to cut jungles, build workers, settlers and executives to get a nice score. I stopped my try on rainforest. Currently I am trying Big&Small with Charlemagne, but again with only 5 parallel executives it takes forever to spread it to all those tiny islands. I think I will try another Terra but with Charlemagne then because the "Rathaus" is really a nice boost to cut down the maintenance; found a city, spread Sushi, build Rathaus one turn, rush-buy it and your new city gives gold from turn 2 after being found.
Well I have 320 workers in my marathon speed game, and its turn 530 and I still dont have all the jungle mowed (but Im almost there). A couple of cities can reach size 60+ if enough future techs can be researched in time (~T600).

Rainforest is still neato however. Its easier to point and click a bunch of workers than have to transport them around to tiny islands for a small score boost from irrigation that annoys you not to have, at least IMO. Overall its just personal preference however, cities will still be at 40+ fpt.

I cant remember if I posted this in that point scoring thread in Strategy and Tips, but the city icon is your friend. You can sort by food and find all those cities that the AI assigned specialists inexplicably to, you can sort by happiness and health, and finally you can sort by build and whip granaries and courts at appropriate times without having to go to each city individually. Its a big help for those who dont know about it.

What actual victory type are you guys using? Domination takes FOREVER.

What actual victory type are you guys using? Domination takes FOREVER.that's right - but as long as the score grows and you can build more cities you are on the right way. As faster as you can settle to reach nearly the domination limit and as more cities you can place with your last turn (and build HG off course) the higher you get your score.

I am halfway to domination but my final score is still projected to be less than 10,000. the 100k plus scores that you guys are talking about sound ridiculous.

I am halfway to domination but my final score is still projected to be less than 10,000. the 100k plus scores that you guys are talking about sound ridiculous.What are your settings? And with whom are you playing?

:( Had a real nice game going 140+ in well before 1000 AD and darn Fay crashed me out a second time :wallbash: Dratted hurricanes ... sigh. Still time for more another shot at least... :coffee:

I'm on Rainforest as Gandhi against Elizabeth, Charlemagne, Hannibal, the Khmer guy, Justinian, Pericles, Gilgamesh and Julius

This stategy won't launch you into truly rarefied air of several hundred k but it should get you over 100 and at least let you see the issues that you face in getting a super high mark.

If you are trying for your first high score game. I don't think rainforest is a good choice. I'd suggest a more normalized map like a pangaea or a big and small with a massive continent. Turn off Barbarians in the options. Set cities to no razing. Pick a creative civ like catherine or zara or the khmer guy suvaranyan. Regen your map til you pop a settler on turn 1. Plop down two cities close together. Build a worker warrior settler granary ( and courthouse once you get Code of Laws) and keep doing that in each new city you lay down and cottage them up. After you have about 5 - 10 cities stop building cottages and starting building farms in the new cities.

In your core you want to build libs and markets and a small army of 6 -12 of your preferred units of destruction. Horse archers or swords or whatever you like to war with. Use the little army to knock off the ai's at a leisurely pace with the emphasis on not losing many units.

Research to get the Code of laws Oracle Civil service leap and after that you should track your research to Biology. You don't even need a corporation setup to crack 100 or 150. If you feel like being more aggressive use 17 civs and start killing off the ai's a bit sooner.

This is very basic plan but if you are having issues getting off the ground maybe it will be of use. There are lots of good articles in the war academy on the refinements and more esoteric approaches.

I'm on Rainforest as Gandhi against Elizabeth, Charlemagne, Hannibal, the Khmer guy, Justinian, Pericles, Gilgamesh and JuliusRainforest is hard. You need hundreds of workers to clean the jungle! I aborted my try with rainforest. The easiest map I had was Terra. With a big oversea landmass you can start to conquer the "old world" without fearing to reach the domination limit. Additionally you can send some scouts over to pop a lot of late game huts (especially for Astronomy).

As opponents I won't choose protective ones (like Charlemagne), nor the backstabbers (like Suryavaraman). If you want the huts for yourself you shouldn't choose the "hunting" civs, so no Pericles.

So my favorites for opponents are Augustus, Julius, if you are fast in conquering before they have praets, but even then you can beat them easily with cuirassiers/cavalery. De Gaulle, Elizabeth, Joao II and Victoria. All of them are non-aggressive, non-protective, no hunting, non-spirit and non-creative. From the point of an attacker, really nice attributes.

Your civ should have a trait or a UB which helps reducing the maintenance cost, so each civ with organized is ok or charlemagne (Rathaus).

Rainforest is hard. You need hundreds of workers to clean the jungle! I aborted my try with rainforest. The easiest map I had was Terra. With a big oversea landmass you can start to conquer the "old world" without fearing to reach the domination limit. Additionally you can send some scouts over to pop a lot of late game huts (especially for Astronomy).

As opponents I won't choose protective ones (like Charlemagne), nor the backstabbers (like Suryavaraman). If you want the huts for yourself you shouldn't choose the "hunting" civs, so no Pericles.

So my favorites for opponents are Augustus, Julius, if you are fast in conquering before they have praets, but even then you can beat them easily with cuirassiers/cavalery. De Gaulle, Elizabeth, Joao II and Victoria. All of them are non-aggressive, non-protective, no hunting, non-spirit and non-creative. From the point of an attacker, really nice attributes.

Your civ should have a trait or a UB which helps reducing the maintenance cost, so each civ with organized is ok or charlemagne (Rathaus).
I dont think you can get a good score with Rainforest/Normal as it is indeed, difficult in a couple of different ways. Heck, take marathon benchmarks and divide by 3; if the result is not feasible on normal speed, its probably not going to work very well. Example is 300 workers by Turn 450 on marathon is turn 150 on normal, and I think that is the number you really need to get the job done. They were still doing work up to the end so even more would have been beneficial (though I got tired when repositioning cities and just automated them and turned on "Dont disrupt old improvements" in the Options. It is pretty hard to get that amount of workers at T150 on normal.

I agree in order of (Score Potential/Ease of Play) Terra is the best, followed by Big and Small. So I would try those if the goal is a couple hundred thousand points.

Rathaus leader has some lousy traits, cant say I like him as well. Zulu is better IMO as you get an additional maintenance saver (that can double as a happiness building w/ Nationhood), and you get at least one good trait in expansive. Other civs are better than that even, but only in my opinion. Here in the Rainforest context I chose Peter for Research Labs and the 2 traits, with the idea being build a bunch of labs early and enjoy many future techs. Really it is difficult to rush all those labs though while trying to build workers at the same time.

Rathaus leader has some lousy traits, cant say I like him as well. Zulu is better IMO as you get an additional maintenance saver (that can double as a happiness building w/ Nationhood), and you get at least one good trait in expansive. Other civs are better than that even, but only in my opinion. Here in the Rainforest context I chose Peter for Research Labs and the 2 traits, with the idea being build a bunch of labs early and enjoy many future techs. Really it is difficult to rush all those labs though while trying to build workers at the same time.To reduce maintenance and save building costs you always have to build Courthouses in each city. Using Zulu you have to build 2 buildings for nearly the same effect (70% reduction) compared to Charlemagne with onyl 1 building (75%). So on lower levels where the unique unit don't count you have a really fast end-game with Charlemagne. Buying barracks and courthouses in all new cities (~150) you really need a lot of money :rolleyes:

To reduce maintenance and save building costs you always have to build Courthouses in each city. Using Zulu you have to build 2 buildings for nearly the same effect (70% reduction) compared to Charlemagne with onyl 1 building (75%). So on lower levels where the unique unit don't count you have a really fast end-game with Charlemagne. Buying barracks and courthouses in all new cities (~150) you really need a lot of money :rolleyes:
True enough but you dont need courts in every city, just enough to count. You can even get away with no courthouses and go on strike and its effect is actually not that bad (but it limits your options in that you cant use caste system). Its a good building but it doesnt make up for essentially no traits on the leader. Traits>any building.

In my mind, and I know WT disagrees, happiness above 20 tiles is important, and the nationhood barracks thing is a cost beneficial way to achieve happiness. The reason I hate having unhappies is that even with Emphasize food and switch off automated assignment of tiles(or whatever the small box is below rush buy in the city screen), when you get to the happiness limit your darn city wants to put everything to specialists. If you keep them happy, all you have to do is sort by your food icon in the All Cities Screen every few turns.

Is there any difference in the rathaus at 75% and a reg leader with org + courthouse? Seems to me the org leader is at an advantage since you dont have to build anything for the basic boost. Charlemagne's protective trait is generally of no benefit at all. Once you reach a certain point even the maintenance is not really a limiting factor, at least in my limited experience.

In addition to organized leaders, there are only a couple that pop up as useful in the milk situation. This changes with difficulty level, but really you never want creative. For below monarch if I had to choose in terms of ease of use, Asoka would be right up there for a Terra or Big and Small.

So I would suggest Asoka and Terra if you wanted to get a pretty good score here when you havent milked so much before. You can just buy cities later, the #1 objective is to get to Sushi fast, and then whip/buy settlers and workers and the workboats. Do all this in the quickest time while keeping under the domination limit and watch that score grow!

Is there any difference in the rathaus at 75% and a reg leader with org + courthouse? Seems to me the org leader is at an advantage since you dont have to build anything for the basic boost. Charlemagne's protective trait is generally of no benefit at all. Once you reach a certain point even the maintenance is not really a limiting factor, at least in my limited experience.

This is the biggest difference you will find. IIRC, Org saved about 1000 maintenance/turn in the late game, but rathaus saved 5000/turn more than a courthouse (that's 15,000 total). You can do a lot with 4000 extra gold/turn.

Is there something messed up with the calculation? 50% and 50 % should be the same as 75% shouldn't they? Or is it strictly the way its affecting the city with the corporations?

Is there something messed up with the calculation? 50% and 50 % should be the same as 75% shouldn't they? Or is it strictly the way its affecting the city with the corporations?

Org is 50% off only on Civic Upkeep, not distance, # cities, or corp

Does that clear it up? or am I missing your point?

Bah. I still can't get anywhere near 10,000. It takes forever to do anything on huge.

This is the biggest difference you will find. IIRC, Org saved about 1000 maintenance/turn in the late game, but rathaus saved 5000/turn more than a courthouse (that's 15,000 total). You can do a lot with 4000 extra gold/turn.I don't have the detailed numbers, but thx WT, that's what I wanted to answer too :D - with 4000 extra per turn and US you can buy like crazy

I think that Washington is a good leader for milking the population score. Expansive and Creative gives you bonuses to both happiness and healthiness. You can get a population of 8 in the very early game and an additional 1-2 population per city in the late game. Even more if you play long enough to get the American special building and build the three wonders (BW, R&R, and HW).

Its a good building but it doesnt make up for essentially no traits on the leader. Traits>any building.Don't neglect the Imperialistic trait of Charlemagne, it gives you 50% bonus to settler production. So in the phase where you spread a lot of cities you benefit from it.

The reason I hate having unhappies is that even with Emphasize food and switch off automated assignment of tiles(or whatever the small box is below rush buy in the city screen), when you get to the happiness limit your darn city wants to put everything to specialists. If you keep them happy, all you have to do is sort by your food icon in the All Cities Screen every few turns.I must agree here, it's a hard work to check a lot of cities each turn for reaching unhappiness. You really learn to use the functions of the "city advisor" effectively :cool:

This is a really time consuming gauntlet. I made my final try with Charlemagne to see the benefit of Rathaus. I played on Terra with low seas and 10 opponents. I warrior rushed 2 neigbors, researched to Paper and got Education from the Oracle. I then focused on cuirassiers and then cavalery and conquered the rest of the 1st world. The rest is settling cities on every possible tile and spreading sushi.

The experience

- the earlier you conqured all civs the better the score, so
- don't use "low seas". It takes too long to get the whole continent
- waiting for cuirassiers takes too long, better get a civ with an early UU which can move 2 tiles
- Rathaus is great :) Together with Kremlin you can rushbuy everything you can imagine in the end-game, even expensive wonders are done in 2-3 turns.
- I delayed growth to long to get an overwhelming settler army to settle the new world in the last turn. This only gave me 3000 points.

The question
How could I prevent the AI to build HG? In all my (3) tries the AI built it before I were able to conquer them. With 10 AI I don't collect the spy points fast enough to see where the HG is being built!

This is a really time consuming gauntlet. I made my final try with Charlemagne to see the benefit of Rathaus. I played on Terra with low seas and 10 opponents. I warrior rushed 2 neigbors, researched to Paper and got Education from the Oracle. I then focused on cuirassiers and then cavalery and conquered the rest of the 1st world. The rest is settling cities on every possible tile and spreading sushi.

The experience

- the earlier you conqured all civs the better the score, so
- don't use "low seas". It takes too long to get the whole continent
- waiting for cuirassiers takes too long, better get a civ with an early UU which can move 2 tiles
- Rathaus is great :) Together with Kremlin you can rushbuy everything you can imagine in the end-game, even expensive wonders are done in 2-3 turns.
- I delayed growth to long to get an overwhelming settler army to settle the new world in the last turn. This only gave me 3000 points.

The question
How could I prevent the AI to build HG? In all my (3) tries the AI built it before I were able to conquer them. With 10 AI I don't collect the spy points fast enough to see where the HG is being built!
You have to kill enough AIs to consolidate your EPs going to just a couple of them to see HG. I built it before the end in my aforementioned game as I did not want to fool with keeping more AI cities in regards to maintenance.

I have finished about 3 more of these plus numerous aborted attempts. I can't come close to my first attempt. 4th place but I keep expecting someone to bump me down. Nevermind trying to break into 3rd. One more try using the total conquest approach mentioned above. I have been taking vassals but I guess that isn't such a good idea after all. :blush:

I have finished about 3 more of these plus numerous aborted attempts. I can't come close to my first attempt. 4th place but I keep expecting someone to bump me down. Nevermind trying to break into 3rd. One more try using the total conquest approach mentioned above. I have been taking vassals but I guess that isn't such a good idea after all. :blush:
If your score is near 150k I don't expect a lot more guys to bypass you. With 3 submitted games and 3 aborted ones I won't try another in this gauntlet. Managing more than 150 cities at the end is really "not amusing".

Finally finished this mammoth gauntlet. Only one attempt but it took two weeks. My final score was only 4,721 so clearly I took completely the wrong approach to this gauntlet but I do not have the patience to try again. I need to go and play a small map to get my sanity back.

....lol?

I just broke my personal record (witch isn't much, worth 9th place now). I played big 'n small, had sushi spread almost every where had loads of cities some tipped lvl 30. Still had to conquer some civs, was just doing justantine wich had like 6 fish resources nearby. I scrolled.... quicktime autoupdate popped up (i always put those off) and crash.... about 7 hours waisted (yeah slow wanted to micro this very and possibly well and learn some more. It's a cruel world we live in... well atleast i don't live in new orleans.

Just maaayyyybeeee another try, i do like this all overpowered feeling you get on these low levels :D.

If your score is near 150k I don't expect a lot more guys to bypass you. With 3 submitted games and 3 aborted ones I won't try another in this gauntlet. Managing more than 150 cities at the end is really "not amusing".

You of all guys say that? What about saving a build cue? All my new cities where doin, granery, theater, Worker, lighthouse (for coastal), forge, levee, Market, bank, harbor, Wealth. And when i felt the need (wich wasn't strong) i jumped in and changed it.

Anyway, yes it's getting tedious wich can clearly been read like it's a understatement. :D

If your score is near 150k I don't expect a lot more guys to bypass you. With 3 submitted games and 3 aborted ones I won't try another in this gauntlet. Managing more than 150 cities at the end is really "not amusing".It was just 100K but I found that, as suggested, conquering the world first works better. I submitted one just over 170K. (Although, I have to wait for Methos or Tone to accept it, which may be a couple days.)

I can probably do better as I had to throw the finish switch earlier that I wanted. I over expanded and got caught by an impending culture expansion. I didn't have a small city left to gift away. :sad: I am not sure I can play this again, though.

You of all guys say that? What about saving a build cue? All my new cities where doin, granery, theater, Worker, lighthouse (for coastal), forge, levee, Market, bank, harbor, Wealth. And when i felt the need (wich wasn't strong) i jumped in and changed it.

Anyway, yes it's getting tedious wich can clearly been read like it's a understatement. :D

You can change all the build queues at the same time. For example, IIRC, alt-click on your capitol's current build. All cities should be flashing as if selected. Then if you do something like ctrl-Courthouse, all cities that don't have a courthouse will build one first and then continue with whatever was in the queue. I usually end with Shift-Wealth. Is my notation making sense?

You of all guys say that? What about saving a build cue? All my new cities where doin, granery, theater, Worker, lighthouse (for coastal), forge, levee, Market, bank, harbor, Wealth. And when i felt the need (wich wasn't strong) i jumped in and changed it.

Anyway, yes it's getting tedious wich can clearly been read like it's a understatement. :DFYI: I am using up to 5 build queues.

1st: Granary,Courthouse,Catapult/Cannon,Lighthouse,Wealth
2nd: Workboat,(1st)
3rd: Workboat,(2nd)
4th: Harbor,Aqueduct,Grocer (for the 1st health boost)
5th: Supermarket,PublicTransport,Hospital (for the 2nd health boost)

what I meant is that checking F1 statistics each turn to see which city needs what ... boring :cry:

WastinTime: Ow wow thats somethin new. Perfect sense, CTRL to put it in front (cities that have it won't build it and shift wealth to close off all build cues with wealth. I am definetly gonna use that.

HHG: Wow, your checking city advisor each turn? I only do that when determining my specialization cities. What exactly do you look for? Just health and happienes or more stuff?

Anyway it doesn't realy matter what you build in a city for domination score victory right? Just make sure it can grow asap bigger cities with (emphasize food button) the rest isn't that importand i think. And offcourse keeping your economie running but a couple of courthouses, banks and those religion wonder buildings you get from G profits will keep you running. Or am i missing a point here and realy micromanage every single citie each turn will double your score or something?

HHG: Wow, your checking city advisor each turn? I only do that when determining my specialization cities. What exactly do you look for? Just health and happienes or more stuff?As I tried to explain somewhere above, i use the City Advisor Screen (F1) and sort by happiness and check the unhappy cities, I then sort by health and check the unhealthy cities (open city and press the appropriate queue-shortcut). 3rd I sort by maintenance cost and rushbuy Courthouses where needed. To summarize: Most of my cities are building Wealth and if they run into un-happiness/health I either stop growth, raise culture slider or assign a build-queue. For new cities I have build-queues 1-3 ready.

Anyway it doesn't realy matter what you build in a city for domination score victory right? Just make sure it can grow asap bigger cities with (emphasize food button) the rest isn't that importand i think. And offcourse keeping your economie running but a couple of courthouses, banks and those religion wonder buildings you get from G profits will keep you running. Or am i missing a point here and realy micromanage every single citie each turn will double your score or something?Yes - most points you got from early win and population.

@HolyHandGrenade, sorry but I knocked you out of 3rd. place by about 200-300 points.

____________

I was kind of surprised with the score. I was around 146K the next to the last turn. I got everything worked out for the last turn like I heard. i.e. Settling a most of the empty places. Building Hanging Gardens. I even put everything into culture which popped the boarders of most of the new cities.

I am not sure I get the whole build queue thing though. I went for things like granery, aquaduct, lighthouse and maybe theaters. Although the last got me into trouble as the border expansion forced me to go with zero culture and the resulting unhappiness in my biggest cities during the end game. I barely got suschi built and only had time to spread it to a dozen cities.

I concentrated on irrigating everything. Even to the point of replacing cottages. What civics are everyone using?

Civics usually end up being Sufferage Bureaucracy Caste Free Market Free Religion. Earlier i run Representation Serfdom and Org Religion if the occasion makes them useful. Sometimes i use Mercantilism as well if the other civs are few and small.

If you have Redentor, there is no downside to running Representation every other turn to add to your science capacity. Well, at the expense of a few hammers anyways in your cottage towns.

@HolyHandGrenade, sorry but I knocked you out of 3rd. place by about 200-300 points.
It's OK - no problem for me. It was frustrating enough to notice that the fast conquer game with Darius gives me much higher score than the milking game with Charlemagne where I was 200 years later :mischief:

Ok submitted probably my final try. Almost 70K and thats almost 20K more then my previous game. Could have squesed more out of it, but had serious pain getting the right GP. First needed a profet for some extra income and 6 times he didn't came with 50 to 75% chance. I did get 2 artists about 5 to 10% chance :S. Then when i got economics i sent my merchant to rusia, and with about 90% for a GM i get my 2nd profet. I was running about 6 merchants there :S. Luckely just befor i got biology i got my GM from my farm. Well it was fun again but... damn it takes long :S, can't imagine on high dificulty.

gz.

I got a submission in on the last day. Been away from Civ for a bit, and just discovered this major a few days ago. 1808 Cultural with a score in the 9000's

Not a great effort by any means. Wasn't real sure on what kind of victory I wanted to shoot for at first. Decided on cultural, with that huge map and being isolated in a nifty area. However, I made mistakes/wasn't aware, that I needed 12 cities to get my 3 cathedrals in each culturual city, until way late. And, didn't realize I needed 50K for legendary(sure wish this info was readily available somewhere in game, or manual....never sure on this).

So, after those slowdowns we finished in 1808. Not a big deal...my main goal was getting a major for my EQ, and knocking off a few other categories, too.

This Gauntlet is finished. Results:

1st Andrei_V 215,726
2nd Rain 207,096
3rd Denniz 170,903

Contratulations!

:goodjob: Congrats Andrei - think I have a better game in progress but never got it finished in time, still won't be a dramatic change over your score though :)

:goodjob: Congrats Andrei
Thanks, I feel like I lost this one. :lol:

Wow. My 2047 AD finish wasn't the slowest!

And I'm somewhat surprised my score wasn't the lowest:)