I was running some tests with a new mod to see how the AI would get along, and noticed that within a dozen turns or so there would be a couple of armies running around. Thinking there was no way the AI was getting elite promotions already, I turned on debug mode to keep a closer eye on them. The Army units would pop up in capitals seemingly at random. I then realized I had Scientific Leaders enabled, which must be the cause- but why? In C3C the SGL unit doesn't even appear in the editor, its traits apparently hard-coded. In a modified BIQ, does it default to the battle-created unit (which is the Army in this case)? I could simply disable the option, but I'd like to include SGLs if possible (only for wonder rushing), and this is a very curious bug. Can someone explain this behavior?

I was running some tests with a new mod to see how the AI would get along, and noticed that within a dozen turns or so there would be a couple of armies running around. Thinking there was no way the AI was getting elite promotions already, I turned on debug mode to keep a closer eye on them. The Army units would pop up in capitals seemingly at random. I then realized I had Scientific Leaders enabled, which must be the cause- but why? In C3C the SGL unit doesn't even appear in the editor, its traits apparently hard-coded. In a modified BIQ, does it default to the battle-created unit (which is the Army in this case)? I could simply disable the option, but I'd like to include SGLs if possible (only for wonder rushing), and this is a very curious bug. Can someone explain this behavior?

as far as I know, SGL cannot create an army, only MGLs can do that, so I wouldn't imagine that is what is the cause behind this.

in the Editor, SGLs and MGLs both are the 'leader' unit, so I'd imagine that if you set the battle creation unit to produce an army unit, and then went into the 'leader' unit and turned off the "Build Army" option, that would work, and you can leave the hurry production.

I'm not 100% sure of the answer, but now you got ME interested in this, and I wanna' know the answer :rolleyes:

The armies are autoproduced by buildings. There is no restriction in the number of armies when they are autoproduced. As they pop up in the capitals it could be that it´s the palace, that autoproduces them.

As the SGLs are enabled, the mod was created with at least a last use of editor 1.00 of C3C (the editor that came with vanilla C3C) as in the last patched version of C3C the SGLs are broken.

Does the Ai put units into the Armies?

If it does I want the AI to have Armies, if all I have to do is make the battle-created unit an army rather than a leader, that would work for me, as the majority of the time I would use the leader to make army anyway, so this would make an army the only option which evens the playing field.

Please tell me the AI actually uses these armies.:please::please:

Edit:

I enabled army rather than leader for the battle created unit and I disabled scientific leaders.

What happens now is leader shows up in my build queue and says that it takes one turn to build a leader. Any ideas on why that happens.

Never got to seeing if armies are produced yet, too early in the game.

Edit:

I did a bit of testing. Enabling army rather than leader in the battle created unit field puts leader into the build queue. The question is why is the AI building armies in your game, because it never uses great leader to make armies.

Does the Ai put units into the Armies?

If it does I want the AI to have Armies, if all I have to do is make the battle-created unit an army rather than a leader, that would work for me, as the majority of the time I would use the leader to make army anyway, so this would make an army the only option which evens the playing field.

Please tell me the AI actually uses these armies.:please::please:[/B]
The AI does use armies. It will load units into the army, but there's a bit of a flaw in the hard-coding. Basically, I'd recommend you give armies a capacity of 1, then give them a +8 HP bonus.

Keroro is correct the AI uses armies but has difficulty loading more than 1 unit effectively into an army so the best workaround is decreasing the number of units an Army can load and increasing the HP's.

Thanks, I will set up armies that way.

I simply got rid of the leader by making it unavailable to all civs, since battle created units will now be armies and leaders are out of the game.

Testing.

i've seen all of these issues, too, at one point or another, especially the mysterious army unit showing up in the capital.

a few observations:

Marine Corps pointed out to me a while ago that problems arise by setting the battle created unit as an army unit (as was the case in AoI). by this i mean that if an army unit is spawned in one of those rare elite unit victories, it is the only one able to be spawned going forward. now, the bottom line is that once that first army unit is there, it is the only one you'll get until it perishes. MC explained to me that he thought the cause of it was b/c battel created units need to be "cashed in" in order to spawn the next one. so it is not a matter of cities needed per army (as was my original thought). so the moral of this stroy is to not set the battle created unit as an army unit and instead leave it as a great leader and then 'cash' it in for either an army unit or for a wonder rush.

wrt AI use of armies - yes, it is problematic. but what Kerero and BK noted is what i also subscribe to. i mean, i set the capacity at 1, ramp up the HP bonus (to simulate 3 or 4 unit's worth of HPs), and flag them to only carry foot units. now, an extra step must be taken here to flag only the units one wants inside of army units. in my example, i want to limit it solely to infantry type units (and not armor or mech units).

in addition, we've seen in the past that the AI likes to load fast units into armies (i.e. ones w/ higher mvmt pts). so this applies in cases where there's no restrictions in place for units that can actually load into army units. this was the genesis for us in terms of limiting which units we wanted to go into these armies.

Keroro is correct the AI uses armies but has difficulty loading more than 1 unit effectively into an army so the best workaround is decreasing the number of units an Army can load and increasing the HP's.

I've never seen the AI have a problem with that! In the FF mod, armies are autoproduced by the military academy (which only requires the military tactics tech to build), and virtually every AI army I've encountered was fully loaded, although not necesarily with the best units that could have been used for that purpose.....

I've never seen the AI have a problem with that! In the FF mod, armies are autoproduced by the military academy (which only requires the military tactics tech to build), and virtually every AI army I've encountered was fully loaded, although not necesarily with the best units that could have been used for that purpose.....
When you say they were full but not with the best units, what do you mean? Do they mix infantry and cavalry?

Going into the AIs workings, it seems that the AI is reluctant to load units that will reduce the speed of the army. Therefore, if the first unit it loads is an infantry then the second (and any further units) will have to have a movement of 2. If the first unit has a movement of 2 then any further units would have to have a movement of 3+. If the AI starts an army by loading it's quickest unit then it seems that it will stop there and never load anything else, since even another unit of the same type appears to the AI to be slower than the army. What this means in practice is that the AI doesn't produce armies with the same type of unit in. That's my experience, I'd be interested if anyone's found anything else?

I actually use the same system as El Justo - armies only carry foot units, and only certain infantry are flagged as foot units.

All in all, it appears that the armies were hardcoded for an earlier version of civ 3, back when armies did not get a bonus to their movement.

I've changed the way Armies work in the mod. I don't plan to even have a MGL unit, unless that causes problems. There are 2 Army units, one for the battle-created unit and one for the build-Army unit which will be built at a Military Academy. Both hold only 1 unit and have a large HP bonus. As El Justo said, there can only be one battle-created unit at any time. This is intentional, as the battle-created Army has more HP than the one from the Military Academy, and should be rare.
I started a new test game with SGLs disabled, and no Armies appeared. Is it part of the brokenness of SGLs in C3C 1.22 that it will use the battle-created unit? I was under the impression that the only thing wrong with them was that the science age ability did nothing, and planned to use them to rush wonders only.

I've changed the way Armies work in the mod. I don't plan to even have a MGL unit, unless that causes problems. There are 2 Army units, one for the battle-created unit and one for the build-Army unit which will be built at a Military Academy. Both hold only 1 unit and have a large HP bonus. As El Justo said, there can only be one battle-created unit at any time. This is intentional, as the battle-created Army has more HP than the one from the Military Academy, and should be rare.
I started a new test game with SGLs disabled, and no Armies appeared. Is it part of the brokenness of SGLs in C3C 1.22 that it will use the battle-created unit? I was under the impression that the only thing wrong with them was that the science age ability did nothing, and planned to use them to rush wonders only.

I am playing a game right now with the same setup you are describing and the AI has produced a battle created army and is using it.

Could you give more detail on what you are going to do with the Military Academy, will the academy spit out a an army or will you be able to build/buy and army in the build queue. My concern being that the AI doesn't build armies in its build queue.

When you say they were full but not with the best units, what do you mean? Do they mix infantry and cavalry?


Not so much that... What I mean is that they'll have DEFENSIVE units mixed with OFFENSIVE units, as well as armies completely loaded with Offensive units, but include OBSOLETE units with the new ones, and these armies were created long AFTER the tech that made the newer units available was researched.....

....Generally, I load Mage type units (since they do not upgrade to anything, and are still useful even in the modern era) until I get Marines, then I make sure I have a few Marine armies for coastal assaults.... I'll also load armies with whatever is produced by the alignment-specific government SW (Turks, Crown Guards or Citizen Militas), since they are also some of the best units available at the time and are still able to function well in the modern era.

That's interesting Hikaro. I've found the AI seems to hate loading an army with duplicated units and had figured it was something to do with movement speeds. This might be worth a bit more testing.

For the moment I think I'll stick with the single unit/HP bonus, which makes thing nice and simple. I'll experiment a bit at the weekend with different set-ups.

I agree with you that marine armies are fantastic. :) One of the first mods I played for civ 3 with RFRE, and Scipio's armies in that can do coastal assaults. They make taking cities so much easier than just using average marine units.

Something further to report:

The battle created army, as stated above is the only one that has appeared. I have seen one other AI with an army as well.

I just completed the military academy and I should now be able to build armies in the build queue, my army has been victorious in battle and I do have more than the required cities (about 15 currently), but army does not appear in the build queue for the city with the military academy.

This would mean for sure that no civ would have more than one army at a time with this setup. Unless of course I am overlooking
something.

Edit: One further thing, if I disband my single army, it still won't allow me to build armies with the military academy, maybe the battle created army I have hasn't been flagged as a victorious army even though it has won many battles.

Something further to report:

The battle created army, as stated above is the only one that has appeared. I have seen one other AI with an army as well.

I just completed the military academy and I should now be able to build armies in the build queue, my army has been victorious in battle and I do have more than the required cities (about 15 currently), but army does not appear in the build queue for the city with the military academy.

This would mean for sure that no civ would have more than one army at a time with this setup. Unless of course I am overlooking
something.

Edit: One further thing, if I disband my single army, it still won't allow me to build armies with the military academy, maybe the battle created army I have hasn't been flagged as a victorious army even though it has won many battles.

Having only one army max per civ might actually be better for the game and stop one civ from running away with too many armies.

I know that once you get on roll with a lot of armies, you have got the game in your pocket, I stopped using armies because it just isn't fun anymore with the AI not building armies. Maybe I will give it a try again with your setup.

Pounder, that's one of the reasons that I put auto-produced armies into the FF mod, as well as "army" units... I.e. single units (auto-produced, of course) that used Munit graphics (hero party for good guys, mercenary company for neutrals, and barbarian hordes for bad guys) with HUGE Att, Def and HP bonuses, as well as Makou Cannons (an immobile, airliftable defense only unit with about 150 bombard strength, 50 ROF, 50 range and lethal land and sea, plus 2 "movement" and blitz so that you can fire it twice per turn... great for thinning the ranks of approaching enemy stacks... the AI also uses them rather well, as I've seen transport fleets redlined by an AI civ that had accumulated only two of them).

The Final Fantasy Mod is all about fun. :D

...And yes, I'm still hoping to have it out by the end of the month or something like that....

I eagerly await, for one! :D

Ooo? So soon? Cool!

Oo!

Pounder, that's one of the reasons that I put auto-produced armies into the FF mod, as well as "army" units... I.e. single units (auto-produced, of course) that used Munit graphics (hero party for good guys, mercenary company for neutrals, and barbarian hordes for bad guys) with HUGE Att, Def and HP bonuses, as well as Makou Cannons (an immobile, airliftable defense only unit with about 150 bombard strength, 50 ROF, 50 range and lethal land and sea, plus 2 "movement" and blitz so that you can fire it twice per turn... great for thinning the ranks of approaching enemy stacks... the AI also uses them rather well, as I've seen transport fleets redlined by an AI civ that had accumulated only two of them).

The Final Fantasy Mod is all about fun. :D

...And yes, I'm still hoping to have it out by the end of the month or something like that....

I can't wait, I am a huge fan (like many).

I made the Army the battle-created so that (a) there could only be one army per civ in early stages, and (b) to prevent the AI from wasting its MGLs on rushing improvements. The build-army unit is a different Army unit, identical except for a lower HP bonus (they only hold 1 unit, but make it much more powerful) because they are more common and easier to get. If the AI doesn't build Armies at all, which I suspected, then I'll make the Academy spawn them every once in a great while. I still don't know why the game is creating Armies instead of SGLs when they are enabled, but I suppose it's no big loss to leave them turned off. I have a feeling that going back to an older editor to enable them would break other things anyway.

Have been playing the AoI scenario for some time now, very in deapth and fun game.
? Has anyone seen or made any changes to have the AI create Armies during game play?

Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their Finest Hour. Sir Winston Churchill