Greetings! I'm a long-time lurker and first-time poster. I've played civilization 4 since its release back during the heady days of college. A long break separates the then, when I didn't even know for what purpose one might build a cottage, and now, where I handily won a game at monarch difficulty in BtS. As Toku, no less ;)

I've since made the jump to Emperor, and am failing miserably. What I'd like to do is, with the approval of the community, walk through my first several turns in the same style as many of the RPCs and sample games, of which I'm a huge fan. With luck, the community here will be able to pick apart my performance and tighten up my play to the point where I can contend with the Emperors.

As an added draw, the RNG will be selecting my leader. I intend to start the game later tonight, at which time saves and images will be provided. In advance, please forgive the strange times updates occur; as I live on the island of O'ahu, a vast time differential exists between myself and many of the community.

The RNG has spoken. It says:

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc326/pbfish3/leader.jpg?t=1218519969

"KHAAAAAAAAAAN!"


And, our start:

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc326/pbfish3/start.jpg?t=1218520946

I don't believe I've ever seen a more straightforward decision. Considering the forestation and the settler's starting location, there are no resources in the visible tiles. I intend to send the scout up the hill. Barring anything horrific to the south or wondrous 1N 2E from the settler's starting location, I'll settle 1S for a shot at some resources. Additionally, refusal to settle in place frees up the plains hill for a mine in the near future, which will be a major boon for an otherwise production-poor capital. Well, production-poor sometime in the future, rather :whipped:

Thoughts?

Wow... Five food resources, a hill with a fresh water lake next to it. Yeah this is definitly a case of settle in place. I'm in the same predicament as you, leaving monarch but struggling on Emperor. I'm going to follow this one closely.

Settle in place - two cows and a plains hill will give great production and a quick start which is important on Emperor. Lots of forest and you can develop the seafood once you have fishing to make a great GP farm capital. Build worker first while researching animal husbandry. Then fishing. Then up to Bronzeworking. Cows will ensure you get your workboats quickly.

settle in place.
tech AH
build worker

clams are only 4 food, so they can wait (you should favor the 2 cow)

This is a no brainer settle in place, the one extra hammer in the city title is so imense in the begingin it is not funny... with two other hills and two cows you'll have enough production, although obviously it won't ever be a production monster(it'll be a monster gp farm and commerce city though, i guess chopping GL/NE/oxford here eventually might be an idea). Settling in place and teching AH seems like a fairly safe bet. By settling one south you lose out 3 worker turns, one turn of research(thats 10 beakers) and obviously a ton of hammers(4+1 per turn, assuming you build worker first), You won't eve work that plainshill before turn 50, and that won't actually let you catch up all that much as you can always work the clams and such instead... Obviously you also lose 2 health by moving one south, which doesn't seem like a good idea. You also trade one forest for an ocean square although that won't matter before very much later in the game...

You could stop after you got AH in, or you can chose at that point to tech either mining(and then bw) or fishing, both will be needed for this start eventually... I am kinda leaning towards mining -> bw as chopping out those settlers(and also mining that forested hill) can be pretty damn good.. Only problem with that is that you won't have very high food in your capital for quite a while...

Don't move the scout on the hill, just pop the hut with the settler, you can see that there is only grassland forests to the west anyways...

Welcome to the forums! This advice is from a MArathon speed player who wins consistently on Monarch and sometimes wins at emperor.

Emperor requires more patience with tech in my experience. It also requires some early city expansion using whatever your leader and map gives you. Genghis gives you a warring edge as well as the potential the REX alot of cities if there are no nearby AIs.

Commerce and military are important early. Food and production are great (hills/seafood/cows/grassland), commerce limited (although early is great with the seafood), and you have two military options, archery (assured upgrade military) and AH (dependent on location of horses. Also Khan's combat I Warriors are decent defenders, Combat I shield with a barracks are even better Barb protection.

All said and done my suggestion is

AH first, worker first build. AT worse you have 2 strong food/production tiles early (7 food, 7 hammers between the two) , at the best you have instant chariots with your second city.

Use the scout to determine the second tech, if horses are nearby hit fishing, if not archery second or at least third. Also cheack the map, if rivers are present aplenty consider pottery soon to fund early REX.

If stone is nearby consider masonry and making a run at the Great Wall. Imperialistic Khan with teh Great Wall means ALOT of GGs and when combined with the GER and aggressive trait means some of the games best promoted mounted/melee/gunpowder built right away (only Boudica, Tokugawa, and Churchill are better).

If an AI is very close make a beeline to mining/BW, otherwise Ghengis can hold off on those two.

Settle in place, the second hammer from plain hill helps getting the first worker out, research AH. I don't know Ghenghis's starting techs by heart (well huntinfg is obviously one of them) but mining/fishing are first priorities after AH. BW is also very important here (as usual) but i'd start with fishing since the commerce you get from the seafood 'll help you research the other techs.

On emperor i'd try to find copper or horse before going archery, this means you'll have to build some warriors to fogbust the area. Since you start with hunting teching archery early isn't so bad either, early archers is far better than wasting hammers on warriors.

Settle in place, the second hammer from plain hill helps getting the first worker out, research AH. I don't know Ghenghis's starting techs by heart (well huntinfg is obviously one of them) but mining/fishing are first priorities after AH. BW is also very important here (as usual) but i'd start with fishing since the commerce you get from the seafood 'll help you research the other techs.

On emperor i'd try to find copper or horse before going archery, this means you'll have to build some warriors to fogbust the area. Since you start with hunting teching archery early isn't so bad either, early archers is far better than wasting hammers on warriors.

Ghangis starts with the wheel and hunting, so AH as the first tech may get him chariots right out of the gate:D

Archery is always a tough and debated topic on these forums. I find on emperor when I don't tech it early is the time I always want it. The Khans are two Ais who can get away without it early, however it is still needed eventually for Keshiks.

In theory, if he has horses close by he can tech AH/fishing/archery/HBR for keshiks and GERS ASAP. Sort of similar to beelining Iron Working for the Romans or Monty's resourceless UU. HBR is not that much more expensive than IW, and 2 promoted early Keshiks can torch any AI close by.

2 cows + at least 2 mines. you are imperialistic, settlers will be produced at an incredible rate.
(hammers : 2 city tile + 3 plain cow + 2 grassland cow + 6 mines = 13 ;
food : 2 city tile + 4 grassland cow + 3 plain cow + 2 mines + 4 clams - 10 consumed = 5)
13 + 6 (imp bonus) + 5 = 24 --> exactly 5 turns

Looks like an interesting starting position. Could you post the save?

The forum did a lot to help me jump to emperor not TOO long ago :). I will do what I can to help you too on this one.

Anyway, I'm going to have to just throw down another "settle in place" - you have seafood and some decent early hammers here.

I agree with everyone- settle in place, worker first, AH first, fishing next.
Just wanted to say that this is a very suitable start for someone called Mr. Fisher :)

Why would you go fishing before mining -> bw? he got plenty of other titles to work(the two hills and the two cows) which are better when making settlers(due to imperialistic), mining -> bw also allow you to chop trees.

Why would you go fishing before mining -> bw? he got plenty of other titles to work(the two hills and the two cows) which are better when making settlers(due to imperialistic), mining -> bw also allow you to chop trees.

Fishing get's commerce as well as food.

Yeah but it is less production...

Due to overwhelming unanimity, I have overruled my initial intention to settle 1S. Interesting that I'm thinking too long-term. First move will be worker and animal husbandry, as I'd say some REXing is on the menu.

I've attached the save to my initial post.

Ghangis starts with the wheel and hunting, so AH as the first tech may get him chariots right out of the gate:D

Archery is always a tough and debated topic on these forums. I find on emperor when I don't tech it early is the time I always want it. The Khans are two Ais who can get away without it early, however it is still needed eventually for Keshiks.

In theory, if he has horses close by he can tech AH/fishing/archery/HBR for keshiks and GERS ASAP. Sort of similar to beelining Iron Working for the Romans or Monty's resourceless UU. HBR is not that much more expensive than IW, and 2 promoted early Keshiks can torch any AI close by. Indeed there's a lot of debate about archery while it's completely map and level dependent. Initial scouting often points the way if archery'll be needed.

It's now very far into the game (turn 4 to be exact), and a crossroads has arrived.

Our hut popped a map of the lands to the northwest. Meanwhile, our capital is producing a worker and we are researching AH. Our scout is exploring the lands to the west, where we make an interesting discovery:

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc326/pbfish3/Turn4firstcontact.jpg?t=1218557299

She's extremely close, so a rush could well be on the menu. I'm dubious about our chances at copper, though we will see any horses in our area very shortly.

Noteworthy to the west:

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc326/pbfish3/West.jpg?t=1218557426

Stone directly to the southeast of Cathy's capital. I'm thinking if we settle it, we have a very strong chance at the Pyramids, which, coupled with caste system and our capital's prodigious amounts of food, would make for an extremely early pile of beakers.

Our map of the northwest:

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc326/pbfish3/Northwest.jpg?t=1218557547

I want the jumbos and the hut, but nothing nearly as critical as dealing with Cathy or getting that stone, or both.

OK, Cathy starts with archery/Mining/hunting. She needs BW and the wheel to get axes/spears while you need only AH for horses. She's a nasty REXer (believe me I know :mischief:) and will box you in fast, plus she is creative.

So my suggestion

1) Continue AH and the worker.
2) Get both cows pastuerized, tech fishing and build warriors. Start on a workboat once you get fishing
3) Get a settler after the cows and 1 seafood are done (pop 3 or 4), building a few warriors for escourt.
4) Settle ontop of the horses (not on top of CAthy, that's a different matter :mischief:).
5) After Fishing, go for mining and BW, forget archery. Cathy in a sense is a big fogbuster (Well she's a a big ..., er nevermind :mischief:), warriors can fogbust the north and south for now.

Now if you do not have horses, start settling pretty close to her and try to cut off land. Get another settler ready to settle on top of any copper you find. Either way you need to take her out, and fast. A Rush is definitely in order.

I rarely find Genghis without copper or horses nearby (except in that RPC of mine) but if so head immediately for IW. Your agressive axes and swords can still take her out, it will take longer but you won't win this at emperor if she's alive.

EDIT:

Oh, by the way, ignore the stone and elephants. She should be dead by the time you build war elephants or the pyramids.

When you say "on top of the horses", do you literally mean in the same tile?

Yeah no need to pause until AH comes in... Chariot rush might be viable, but with agressive it'll prolly be better to find bronze somewhere.. IMO i'll still favour teching ah -> mining -> bw as you'll prolly have bw in by the time you get your first settler, assuming you grow your city a bit...

I mean ONTOP!!!! You get a hammer bonus, and immediate access plus no stupid barb warrior can meander onto it nor can a swarm of locust eat it. You just need a road to the city from the capital. I know horses are valuable to work in teh BFC, but speed is of the essence here. Settle on the horses, get a barracks done in the capital, chop out 10-12 chariots (you shoudl have BW by then), and do what Khan does best. Pillage, and plunder the fair Russian redhead's lands!

This is not mp... You are way better off settling in optimal position for resources / production.. The AI nor barbs will manage to pillage things unless you are stupid... Pillaging the AI doesn't seem like a very effecient strategy. This is not marathon where you can take your time to spam infinite units and just run over the AI with sheer numbers...

Dissension in the ranks! The Great Khan demands a resolution to this conflict!

Well at any rate we agree on teching all the way to AH and continue exploring / getting huts... There is a hut revealed by the map and there is unexplored map north of you, seems pretty simple to me..

Horses only give an extra hammer if they are on plains btw..

OK, see where the horses are. Certain leader need to be rushed immediately. Shaka and Cathy are two of them, Ghengis is another but that's not an issue here.

fisherpb you are the Khan, make the decision, we are merely advisors.

I have every intention of doing so! ......... after work.

Finish AH, continue teching towards Mining/BW or Fishing. I'm a bit torn on which tech path is best.

I think rushing Cathrine is a very valid option with all that trees.
I wouldn't go for the pyramids if rush is possible.
A city 1S of the riverside cows is ideal if you can get the spot. It would make a great bureaucracy capital (your current capital needs to be a GP farm).
Be careful to watch your power rating with Cathrine, You can't trust her. Even if you decide not to rush, make sure you can defend yourself properly.
The elephants and stone spots are not a priority at the moment in my opinion. Food is the most important factor, so I would aim for cows/wheat city and maybe another corn city.
Try to see if you can find out whether she settled on a hill, that would completely eliminate the option of a chariot rush.
At this point I think fishing->mining->BW, but I might change my mind as things unfold.

EDIT: I wouldn't settle on top of horses if the city spot is crappy. There is enough time to rush with BW, and with good production (and chopping) capital and a 2nd good production city, you can quickly build an army of 10~12 axemen which is like enough to take down moscow, even if she has axes.

His current capital is a very nice burrecracy / gp farm merge... Working cottages and specialists at the same time should work fine...

His current capital is a very nice burrecracy / gp farm merge... Working cottages and specialists at the same time should work fine...

The capital is ok for bureaucracy, but the riverside city is GREAT. If you switch to caste system mid game, the current capital should work only food resources and specialists, getting enough GS to win liberalism in just a few turns.

We will have to wait and see Moscow. If the rush is successful this could be the ultimate new capital.

Regardless of the future capital location, I think this spot is a priority to settle, it has food, production and commerce, and is the best spot I can see on the map. If we are lucky it will also have bronze.

Well he could just do a 3 city rush, with that spot as well as a copper city if he doesn't get copper there..

A Shakespearean turn of events has occurred this round ("A more foul or fair day I have not seen" - Macbeth), warranting a strategic recalculation.

Firstly, Moscow:

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc326/pbfish3/Hill.jpg?t=1218593712

Two major takeaways here: One, Cathy has BW on turn 8. Yikes. Two, Moscow itself is located on a hill, making a chariot rush unlikely to succeed.

However:

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc326/pbfish3/FarWest.jpg?t=1218593815

Coastline to her west and north. The tundra to my south means that we're on the southernmost tip of our continent, thus I can marginalize Cathy by REXing her immediate area, preventing her expansion. Ultimately, she will need to be eliminated, as her Emperor-level production and creative trait mean she will be oozing culture, but it can wait for a while.

My goals are therefore now securing Cathy's surroundings with settlers at key positions, then securing the stone, then securing the Pyramids, all the while exploring the north. All things considered, why risk losing the early war against archers on a hill when I can make a very clean, solid run at the mids?

I have a sinking feeling that this continent is tiny.

I guess that means Ghangis has no nearby horses! I say fishing/mining/BW and still take it to her. Hill, bah, agressive axes are enough, just pump a few more units into the horde!

Rexing is definitely a priority, followed by axe rushing. You will probably have time to settle 2 cities before bronze is ready. I wouldn't settle near stone with the first 2 cities. Cow+wheat and riverside corn seem more appealing to me
She is an awful neighbour to be near, and even though she is on a hill, enough axes will do the job. After all you are aggressive. The important thing is to attack the capital fast with an overwhelming force of maybe 15 axemen.

The continent is indeed tiny, which is why building a workboat for scouting is also very important (I assume it is fractal map). the continent is good enough though for a nice mostly cottage based empire. Pyramids are not that important IMO. If bronze is available, rush her. Even if there is no bronze, I might go for the great lighthouse here (especially if you meet neighbours on another island)

All things considered, Mad, that's now a necessity. It is now turn 42. Tech path has been AH, Fishing, Mining, BW.

Firstly, another arrival:

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc326/pbfish3/Toku.jpg?t=1218597571

In our initial move to block Cathy, we settled here:

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc326/pbfish3/NorthernSettlement.jpg?t=1218597650

A view of Cathy's newly-settled St. Petersburg, complete with a picture of southern copper (though due to its location it is irrelevant compared to the northern copper near the jumbos):

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc326/pbfish3/SouthernCopper.jpg?t=1218597674

Lastly, the Khan sights horses!!! This I wish would have happened several turns ago.

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc326/pbfish3/Horses.jpg?t=1218597757


So, sitrep: We have immediately available copper, but can still seal off Cathy reasonably well. She, however, has set at nines my ideas to capitalize on the stone to build the Pyramids. As such, perhaps 15 or so axemen are in order to wipe her from the earth sooner rather than later? I am leery about that for two reasons: one, I'm very late with BW. I have it on turn 42, she has had it since turn 8. Two, both her cities have high cultural defense and are settled on hills. These will be a veritable nightmare to conquer.

You're not building pyramids because it's a good idea, you're building pyramids because you saw stone and can. The enemy is less than ten tiles away, you don't even know whether or not she has copper. Her capital has 40%, not especially high, and will not reach 60% any time soon. Her 2nd city has had one border pop, so it's still only at 20%.

People may disagree with this, but you should not have teched fishing if you teched animal husbandry before bronze working and especially if you're considering a rush. I find bronze working first for imperialistic leaders is preferable since you can chop settlers while growing (for a REX). Animal husbandry was right though, since you needed either fishing or animal husbandry for food, and animal husbandry is a worker reliant build and gives decent food.

Over the course of teching both mining and BW, taking on these settings roughly 20 turns, I recoup fishing's 40 beakers by working a single clam. Net turns lost by going Fishing before the BW line is zero, and sped my settlers along.

Additionally, concerning pyramids... The representation gambit is not one that I ordinarily go for. In fact, I tend to not build any wonders at all. In this case, however, the capital itself has food enough to power nearly 10 scientists. Given the presence of stone and the above, how are the Pyramids not at least worthy of consideration, when at the time I believed I could box Cathy in, claiming the stone and nullifying her in the process?

Pyramids is a decision to make only after Cathy is dead. If you were to kill her quickly (which I think would have required different decisions) then it would still be on the cards.

However I think you have made a big mistake in your build orders if you are planning an early rush.

Teching fishing before mining/bronze works for me - you have no other source of commerce and as you point out the beakers get paid back.

But I think you built the settler too early and put it in the wrong place. I would have built workboats until at size five I was working two cows and three seafood. Then another worker (chopped once bronze was online). And only then a settler - in time to settle copper when you discover it. Putting a ring of cities around Cathy is playing her game - you can't REX an Emperor level Cathy. The Khan's game should be to settle only one extra city on copper and chop axemen. Now you need to create a second settler which slows down your rush a lot.

Delaying your second city also means your research doesn't get cut - I suspect the cost of working substandard tiles while you produced a settler and additional maintenance costs of settling a city a long way from your capital has slowed your progress towards bronzeworking. Working more seafood earlier would have been better IMO. And as you didn't find any gold huts you don't have any buffer to help pay for an early city.

With two workers in your capital the settler should get chopped very quickly - and can be followed by a chopped swarm of axes.

Since bronze is discovered your next tech shouldn't be ironworking - but rather pottery or writing. You will need at least one of these techs to stand a chance of rescuing your economy after crashing it by building a big army and capturing Cathies cities.

I would suggest going back to the point where you researched animal husbandry and either going for the northern horses or continuing as I suggest and waiting for copper. Otherwise I think you will be on the back foot for the whole game.

when at the time I believed I could box Cathy in

Thats the problem - there was no way you could box Cathy in. She will have four cities before you have three.

I've reached a dead-end. My attack launches with 14 axemen around roughly 1000 BC. All have at least city raider one.

They raze St. Petersburg to the ground, but then break like waves against a sheer cliff against Moscow. In the process, I discover Cathy has two additional cities, iron, and chariots.

I'd be happy to post the screenshots, but all things considered, I'd say the game is academic at this point. Perhaps a restart is in order.

This start was fairly harsh given the fact that even if you did rush her earlier, Toky wouldnt trade with you. I got to writing and Alpha......traded Alpha to Cathy for Ironworking and Pottery. I can still rush her, but my happiness cap is terrible and our leader doesnt have good land nor neccesary teching traits...ie....Financial, Industrious, Philo, Org. There is enough land to the north to expand without taking out your only trading partner.

I would like to see someone take the save, rush Cathy and still be able to recover.

This start was fairly harsh given the fact that even if you did rush her earlier, Toky wouldnt trade with you. I got to writing and Alpha......traded Alpha to Cathy for Ironworking and Pottery. I can still rush her, but my happiness cap is terrible and our leader doesnt have good land nor neccesary teching traits...ie....Financial, Industrious, Philo, Org. There is enough land to the north to expand without taking out your only trading partner.

I would like to see someone take the save, rush Cathy and still be able to recover.

If you leave Cathy though she'll just make your life a misery. Toku isn't close enough to distract her so expect a DOW at some point.

At least with her gone you can tech to Monarchy (this would be my priority rather than Alphabet, COL or currency) and run big cottage cities to recover an economy. You should still be able to outtech Toky, but if there are financial AIs on the other continents they might be racing ahead. Definitely a tough situation.

Once you get to Caste System and have a large capital running a ton of scientists then I think you could get back in the game by lightbulbing your way up to Liberalism and teching to Optics - effectively playing like an isolated start. If you lightbulbed Philo then there is a chance of getting trading going with Toku by sharing a religion. Although by then I doubt he would have anything to trade.

Yeah should have settled near the copper first, now chaty might even claim it first... Also not showing build orders in your city seems very strange as they'll affect alot of things... What exactly did you build and when? And what did your worker do?

I've played through it again, with the same initial techpath. I successfully knocked out three cities, kept two (including Moscow). I feel, though, that the game isn't worth a thread due to it being "tainted" by me knowing where the copper and horses start.... though I do intend to finish it out.

It's turn 81 and I have horses, archery, and HBR. Cathy has two cities remaining, one decent and one in tundra, and we are at peace. I intend to finish her out with Keshiks and then hunt for Toku, developing the jungle to the north as I go for cottage lands.

Skip the expansion and go straight for the capital from the corners (to minimize whipping defense). Promote the suicide axes with cover. Chop rush your attack, and get a road to the corner your attacking from.

I can't bring myself to play out the rest of the tainted start. However, I'd like to give this another shot. Same settings, random leader.... details forthcoming.

Looks like this time I'll be playing as the vampire.

Our glorious leader:

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc326/pbfish3/justinian/Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg?t=1218639726


And our start:

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc326/pbfish3/justinian/Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpg?t=1218639747

There's a hill available, so I'll be sending the warrior up it, but right now I see no compelling reason to do anything but settle in place. As I'm not aggressive, I'd prefer to avoid trying to smack someone early on, but time will tell.

Where is the save? and you should move the warrior NW before deciding where to settle.. E / W / NW / NE / NNE / NNW might all be better places(depening on the hills), but of course you can't check everything, moving the warrior NW would give you the best visbility of where to settle though E could also reveal things..

Out of personal interest (and my dedication to the Great Khan) I'll try to play out a shadow to the Khan start and see if I can get the early rush done.

I suggest starting Justinian in a new thread for clarity.

I have no advice on Justinian as I have struggled myself with him at emperor. I guess farming first and see what other resources you have. AH next as you have the wheel. Worker should be first build. One advice, do not go for an early religion with him (he will be too far behind in worker tech and military) and do not ignore pottery too long (but after BW here).

Unfortunately, I neglected to save on turn 1.... hence, no save. I believe as a result I'll just run through this game silently, and post a new one in a new thread later on.

Thanks all for the advice, and hopefully the next game will end better. Next time, I'll be sure to include what my worker is doing as well as what the city is building.


Good luck with the shadow, mad... I'd love to see how you do.

Unfortunately, I neglected to save on turn 1.... hence, no save. I believe as a result I'll just run through this game silently, and post a new one in a new thread later on.

Thanks all for the advice, and hopefully the next game will end better. Next time, I'll be sure to include what my worker is doing as well as what the city is building.


Good luck with the shadow, mad... I'd love to see how you do.

you always got an automatic save on the initial position.

This time with justinian you shuold play shorter rounds, and read carefully what is been said here, with the khan you played it alone and found a city no one would have considered :(

Okay, lesson learned then... Imperialistic does not mean "spam settlers"

Okay, lesson learned then... Imperialistic does not mean "spam settlers"

yes it does ! but building a 2nd city far away from your capital with no strategic ressources is a bad move.

+ when you try to box an AI, it always ends in a DOW. You'd better let the AI grab land and then take its cities :)

For some reason the screenshots are missing.
It is NOT too late for a rush. If you look at some online threads, there are successful axe rushes even at 900BC.
The improtant thing is that you bring this army up first, so get a few workers, build roads, and then chop the army quickly. The reason is that you pay less maintenance this way. If you get 15 axes in 8 turns you pay only 8 turns of maintenance before the war, but if you take 15 turns to get them you pay more maintenance overall. I can see the screenshots, but I would say, build 15 axes, 2 spears and attack the capital first. It will not survive. As far as I remember Catherine likes to rex, bringing 2 new archers to her new cities, meaining she will not leave a huge stack in the capital.
If you are lucky she will get alphabet by the time you rush and you can demand it for peace, just to finish her later.

EDIT: I just noticed that you already gave up this game. It was a tough start. I think going for the capital first would have saved the game.
You can look at the immortal university -chalemagne thread for reference. It was an even harder start on immortal (which I failed), but some players like Dirk and Rusten performed a well timed rush on Sury and got out of the hole.

Okay, lesson learned then... Imperialistic does not mean "spam settlers"

It means cheaper settlers, which leads to faster Claiming of land

In this case, with Cathy Sooooo close, you needed to plant that settler near a military resource and take her out.

On the other hand, if Cathy was not there and only Toku was present at a distance, spam settlers along those rivers and tech pottery earlier than later.

Can you post a save please?

Imperialistic is an REX trait - but you can't both REX and do an early rush. And you can't out REX Cathy.

Its also a warmongering trait - the great general bonus only comes through war. But with Justinian you would prefer to war later when you have Cataphracts. An early rush or border war with an AI will help you get a Great General though which will add XP for later warring.

With Justinian some priorities you should have are:
- Getting COL so you can run Caste System to pump great people from the huge cities you want to have.
- Getting drama to get your UB up and running - its a fantastic UB - effectively near unlimited happy in a single building
- Getting sources of health (you can trade away every single happy resouce with your UB) to allow your cities to grow really big.
- Never build cottages - only farms - since your edge is going to be using the culture slider for massive happy.
- Making sure you get horses - both for UB and for Cats.
- Making sure you get iron.
- If you can get the pyramids it is really worthwhile for a spiritual leader who is going to have big cities full of specialists. But only with stone.
- Use spiritual to control the diplomatic situation on your continent.

Warrior 1NW, settle 1NE if you don't see open land to the west.

Actually he is looking for hills...

The Justinian game is canceled. I went through about 40 turns, no copper, horse, or iron... Roosevelt <10 to the west, Ragnar >10 to the east, and Monty to the north. I got disgusted and started a new game.

For the record, note the title of the website: civfanatics. Sometimes the best way to learn is to fight out any start.

For the record, note the title of the website: civfanatics. Sometimes the best way to learn is to fight out any start.

Yeah, Dude, play it through, that's how we all learn.

The Justinian game is canceled. I went through about 40 turns, no copper, horse, or iron... Roosevelt <10 to the west, Ragnar >10 to the east, and Monty to the north. I got disgusted and started a new game.

You had archery though, right? There's no way you can tech BW, AH, then IW without researching Archery at some point if there were no strategic resources unless you've got an isolated start.