Time for another edition of the Nobles Club. This time, we turn our sights to Catherine of Russia!

A known backstabber, Catherine has traits that truly excel when REXing. CRE means fast border pops and IMP means fast settlers. But beware, overexpansion is a very real possibility in the hands of the human player.

Here is our leader, along with her UU and UB:
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Bleys_bucket/NC%20XI%20Cathy/Civ4ScreenShot0181.jpg
Her UB is a late game beefed up Laboratory, awesome if your still in an SE this late:
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Bleys_bucket/NC%20XI%20Cathy/Civ4ScreenShot0183.jpg
Her UU is a very nice upgrade to the Cavalry, with an additional 50% bonus vs Mounted units.
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Bleys_bucket/NC%20XI%20Cathy/Civ4ScreenShot0184.jpg
And finally our start. You will all be happy to hear that this is a much more conventional map this time.
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Bleys_bucket/NC%20XI%20Cathy/Civ4ScreenShot0185.jpg
And this edition is the start of a new feature in our club, called Rolos Map Tips. Since they are in a spoiler, you can choose to read them, or play it "cold". I will no longer be offering any information about the maps outside of these tips, so that those who like to be surprised will be able to play along with those who want a bit of direction.
Well, the lesson here today is....

You guessed, how to REX responsibly.

Well, in this game we have a lot of land to use and your nearest neighbours are out of a rapid rush radius.
So you have to choose how to develop your land and wich cities to settle first ( a thing that can make a huge diference ). And there are no particular easy choices on that....

A final small tip: REX is not only about spamming settlers. you also need a army with that..... There is no need for you to make cities for a more agressive AI to pick

And here is the standard cut and paste of our Club Doctrine:

There are no hard and fast rules here, fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do request that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards.

Tentative posting updates are suggested at:

4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, etc)
500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didnt, met other continent if applicable, etc)
1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

Remember, these are only guidelines. What we really want are your thoughts as the game goes on, so if your strats dont fall into line with those dates, feel free to adjust your reports accordingly.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number or stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Once again, special recognition goes out to r_rolo1, our Map Maker, who sets these up for us (so I can play without peeking, heh, the WB needs to be modified) and also to Krick19, who came up with the idea of running a series like this for the less confident players. It is our goal to get folks to play and post without feeling self-conscious about being a "n00b" or asking dumb things. There are NO stupid questions! Learning this game is a process, not an event.

The WB-save is attached (zipped, they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, I suggest checking out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC XI - Catherine". This allows you to play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Prince, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Also, it should be noted that although this is a "pre-Monarch" oriented series, you are welcome to play it at levels above Prince. However, the AIs will NOT get their full set of bonus techs. The main difference is Archery, which the AI normally gets for free at Monarch and above. The main affects of this are in the AIs starting units (warriors instead of archers) and it also creates a tad "slower" AI, since they now have to tech Archery themselves.

In addition, because of the variations of using the Scenario menu, your starting Scout/Warrior may not be in exactly the same spot as the one shown.

Interesting start, dunno exactly where to settle. In place looks not too bad, I want to believe one of the openings in the forest to the west is some interesting hidden resource. Moving 1NE would give cows as well in the BFC but sacrificing one grassland tile and are we sitting on a plains hill? I can't see it clearly on the pic. Anyway, capital site looks like a production center more than anything else to me, depends on what's hidden in the fog. But with all those hills and leeves it can make quite some hammers. Though it's a bit food shy.

Edit: umm, I just assumed the river touched the hill where the settler stands, perhaps it doesn't, then leeves is out and then I'd probably move 1NE unless moving the scout 1SE+1SW shows something more interesting.

Great, thanks Bleys! It looks like a good start, and I'd be willing to be there's another resource in the fog. I'll probably settle 1NE; Losing a bit of grassland won't matter for the cows.

I will follow the update format for a change. 4k BC is all I can do till I get home.

I'm a little torn here. We have a good chance at metal if we settle in place but we don't get cows (or riverside) then. 1 NE looks a little better for early production (more hills, and they're the more efficient grassland variety) but a little weaker for rushing if we're giving up BFC copper (not MUCH weaker though).

Note: The capitol itself is very poor in commerce at the moment. IMO a lot of players don't realize the effect early passive commerce has on the feasibility of REX. The gold mines in the zara game (and his ORG trait) basically let me cover a HUGE area and REX 6 cities before I had courthouses up and not mind much. In that game we also had seafood - we do not here. REX, but tread carefully if the surrounding tiles don't have much commerce to pay for it.

As for me, since we're creative and I can probably hook up metal (or horse!) even if I move 1 NE I'll probably move 1 NE to grab the cow. An extra, guaranteed early tile is just worth it to me (even if the special resource is iron, the delay is a bit much, and if it's horse it's OK to not have it in BFC as cows are better tiles just to work).

As usual my game will highlight a lot of war. OK, back to work now.

looks like a resonable start, 1NE looks a good move, maybe it would be wise to move the scout 1SE then 1SW just to be sure there's not some goodies just out of view.

Not convinced there are enough hills, all look like grassland hills, capital will be food rich but commerce and production low. I'd like to aim for a strong food & commerce second city with the 3rd as a commerce centre. 4th and 5th cities should be military orienated if possible. All this sounds good in theory, untill the map is explored we have no idea of what is possible.

I'm sure first build will be worker, first tech will be Bronze Working, then choppity, choppity, chop!

I had a great first segment, and I think I REXed alright. Not great, but hey I need advice.

Prince-Epic
2000BC


Opening Info:

Build Paths:

Moscow: Worker-Warrior-Settler-Settler(partially whipped)-Worker(whipped)-The Great Wall(I whipped a settler in the middle)
St. Petersburg:Worker
Novgorod:Warrior

Tech Path: Agri.-AH-BW-Masonry-Wheel-Pottery-Myst.


Play Segment:

Well, to start off, my scout was in a completely different tile, giving me an interesting view. I settled 1NE to grab the cows, and I got a pleasant surprise: Riverside pigs!

Opening shot:
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc325/CivKrick19/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg

Moscow:
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc325/CivKrick19/Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg

I research Agriculture, and dial up a worker. A few turns later, Ag is in, and I start on Animal Husbandry.

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc325/CivKrick19/Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg

Around this point I meet Ragnar (yay).

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc325/CivKrick19/Ragnar0000.jpg

With my worker done, I started a warrior, and sent my worker off to farm the corn.

I discovered AH and I proceeded to study BW for Slavery/Chopping.

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc325/CivKrick19/AH0000.jpg

After I finished my warrior, I started a settler. Soon after this, in rapid sucession I meet Pacal(Thanks Rolo!) and Shaka(Thanks even more!) ;):

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc325/CivKrick19/Shaka0000.jpg
(I forgot a Pacal pic)

I then discovered BW, and whipped out a second settler. (I started Masonry) With two settlers, I quickly settled one for cows/stone/some FPs...

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc325/CivKrick19/Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg

I noticed I had no copper and decided the horses had to be a top priority to keep my power up. So:

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc325/CivKrick19/Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg

St. Petersburg started a Worker; Novgorod a Warrior. Moscow whipped a worker for Novgorod.

With Masonry in, I started on The Great Wall, mainly for the espionage points. This time, I'm trying to have a good espionage game as well as REXing. I also started researching the Wheel for Chariots.

After some chopping for TGW, I think I'll get it. I also whipped a third settler when Moscow became unhappy. And that's where I ended.

My land(the sign is where my third settler is going):

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc325/CivKrick19/Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpg

Moscow:

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc325/CivKrick19/Civ4ScreenShot0008.jpg

St. Petersburg:

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc325/CivKrick19/Civ4ScreenShot0010.jpg

Novgorod:
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc325/CivKrick19/Civ4ScreenShot0009.jpg

Strategy: Finish TGW, REX, and try to turn Pacal and Shaka against each other!



Advice?

Going to go with emp/normal.
Basic outline of my pre-game plan is this:
Imperialistic/Creative fueled super REX teching towards currency and CoL for Caste and courthouses followed by a hard beeline for mil trad and rifling for cossacks.

SE + Cossacks = Domination/Conquest.

Decided to try on prince just for the kicks of rexx.. I'm up to ~1500BC now, might do a report later.

@Krick19:
A couple of things:
Why does Moscow have no garrison? It's unhappy at size 3!!
Why are you researching mysticism? I don't really see the need for monuments as creative leader.. Writing for libraries would be more important, especially with high-food capital.

Zanttu:
You're right I need a garrison. I used my warrior for settler escort. As for the mysticism, I was considering the Oracle, but changed my mind, and I decided just to finish out the tech.

Going to give this a shot at Prince/Epic. (I've come to love Epic. Everything is so much easier to course-correct, given my sloppy tendencies.)

As for the start, I am going to give something a shot that I learned in a Nobles discussion here in the forums, and that is I will probably take a little stroll with my settler before dropping down. As TheMeInTeam said, it would be nice to find a little commerce in the capital if I can.

Monarch/Normal to 1000BC


First time as Cathy, not the same since the Cossack was nerfed and the BTS cavlary > Rifling. Boo.
Settled 1NW to get the river and the cows, my scout was to the 2SW (where i'd planned to move him) bagged a Hillpig in the BFC, cows+corn. Luckly there are 2 plains hills in the BFC, easlier to see on a normal view rather than some fancy mod ;)

Built worker and researched BW -AH -AG should have done AG first as potenial growth time was wasted waiting for AH.
Worker also built mines as irrigation and pastures were not available - school boy error.

Popped 2 maps from huts, could just see the Zulu in the south, popped warrior and some cash.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185651&stc=1&d=1218560204

Made the following dotmap, need to settle the southern cites first keep old shaka at bay,
i choose to settle to the edge of the jungle, too much work to clear it, i'm going to let shaka sette and clean for me.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185652&stc=1&d=1218560204

Will settle 1,2,3 then city to the right of 2 claim the gems.

I explore further south and meet Pacal, he and shaka are now on the edge of the jungle and i have not one city, really need to spam settlers quick.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185653&stc=1&d=1218560204

I'm not too worried about Pacal, he never seems to build quickly, always likes to go relgious and have 3 or so cities, i use him to build shines and found relgions, then take his cities and retire him.


I decided to settle site 2 first, then site 1,
3rd went to the left of 2 to claim the Gems,was going to settle on the X SE of Cap but then found a barb city. Also pacal may expand before i can get there and by working 2 Gems it should equal out maintenance costs. Stonehenge was built in cap around the time of the 1st settler, helped by chop. I plan to settle the prophet to help with commerce.
Missed the GW by 1 turn - very annoyed :mad:
I'd skimped on warriors due to the REX, immeadilty after losing the GW I now have serious barb incursions, I emergency tech to Archer then IW.
Luckly the barb city is staffed with warriors, helpful as i have no metal. Will take it as my leisure as it's cut off from the AI.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185654&stc=1&d=1218560204

Plan is to build an Army soon as i see Iron, fingers crossed. If not, archers then take the barb city for horse.
If i have iron, i'll then raise barb city and settle next door.
Short term peace is the way, consoladation and organic expansion.

Unless shaka comes knocking then it may be all over.

Think i will give this a shot.

From the starting shot i agree with TMIT about moving 1 to the Northeast to get the cows and have a great production capital. There are a couple grassland river tiles for cottages for bureaucracy. If i do end up missing strategic resource it will be close by for a second city or in the 3rd ring of expansion of the capital.

Noble/EpicOK, it's Noble's club so I played noble.
4000BC. My scout started in a different spot and revealed pigs 2E1S and grassland cows 3S1E. So I moved my settler 1SE for the river bonus. I settled on a hill so there is going to be a little less production.
Started researching BW but popped it from a hut 3 turns later so i switched to agg-AH. I should have both completed by the time the worker is completed and the corn is farmed.
Worker done. Started him on the corn then the cows. Cows are better than the pigs at this point because of Imp bonus to settlers and because with the cows and corn I don't have food issues. Started a warrior in Moscow while researching Archery since BW reveals i have no copper. Worker begins mining the pig hill. I do this when I have multiple food resources since it provides a food nuetral grassland mine. Once I can raise the happy cap I will pasture the pigs. Archery finishes a couple turns before the warrior so i put two archers in the build list then a settler. Researching masonry because I spot stone to the south. I settled 2S of the stone to claim some rice as well. I have a couple grasslands a floodplain and rice for food and nice hills. This will be my military city. I like the location strategically because it is down by my southern border where the Ai is located. This means troops are closer to any problems. I researched pottery next to start dropping cottages. 2nd city went 5W of the mititary city. Farming the corn and three flood plains means I can cottage the plains and grasslands. Probably about 12-14 cottages. Built GW in Moscow because barbs annoy me. Next city went 1W of the eastern gems. This effectively seals off my lands. teched IW and discovered Iron where we thought it would be. Settled 1W of it to claim the clams and settled north to grab the crabs and silver. Another city claimed the plains cows and the northern wine. With the final city for the round going 5 west of moscow for the rice and remaining wine. I have this sick sense of dejavu. rolo? you haven't been a naughty boy have you? Anyway. I have cottaged moscow pretty well as well as the city to the SW. I think I will hold off on a GP farm until I capture Madrid. Ooops it isn't madrid. Maybe I'm just Greedy

Having just joined this club, playing Noble/Normal without the map spoiler, I am a tad confused by the opening comments.
Cows? What cows? My 4000 BC 15 tile opening save has none. Mind you, while trying to correct things the computer displayed something rather useful.
That said, I'm inclined to take the extra hammer by settling in place, build a scout, research bronze (barbarian uprising-burned, more than once) and BFC-Rex if the connections are close to workable.

I have this sick sense of dejavu. rolo? you haven't been a naughty boy have you? Anyway. I have cottaged moscow pretty well as well as the city to the SW. I think I will hold off on a GP farm until I capture Madrid. Ooops it isn't madrid. Maybe I'm just Greedy

Yup, exactly what you are thinking ;)

Before you start calling me lazy boy, it was Bleys that asked for it and it was him that asked for the things that are diferent.....

BTW, congratulations, you were the first one to notice :beer:

I'll be playing Noble/Epic.
@r_rolo1: I think that map note is exactly the sort of thing I needed. Thanks!

Yup, exactly what you are thinking ;)

Before you start calling me lazy boy, it was Bleys that asked for it and it was him that asked for the things that are diferent.....

BTW, congratulations, you were the first one to notice :beer:

It dawned on me when i was considering puting the maoa statue on the tip at the NE...which is where I put them when i played the Mansa map.

I am a tad confused by the opening comments.
Cows? What cows? My 4000 BC 15 tile opening save has none. Mind you, while trying to correct things the computer displayed something rather useful.
Due to the nature of the WB file save, the starting unit for the human player can appear in a variety of places. In fact, if you re-start the scenario 3 times, you will likely get 3 different starting spots for your Scout.

The screenshot I put in the OP shows some cows, and if your scout started due south of the settler, you would have seen more cows, so no worries, heh, theres LOTS of beef on this map.

Ok, I though I'd be the only one, normally Monarch level player going noble, but seems some others got my idea as well ;)

Well, anyway, it's going to be a fun game nevertheless, I'm tired on constantly getting way behind in tech from my recent "monarch starting in isolation" games.

So here goes
Noble/Epic 4000BC-825BC (I had intended to post the BUG-MOD log so you all could read all the important steps that happens, but unfortunately, I must've misconfigured it as it didn't log anything...) will fix that for next post.

If you haven't researched IW yet there may be a bit of a spoiler here... So don't read unless you want to know all early strategic resources placements.



First thing first, I will try to play a monarch level inspired Noble game, thus I won't aim for every wonder, actually, no early wonders is on my plan atm. I will rex peacefully as hard as I can and stop when I'm on the verge of strikes.

Ok, I settled Moscow 1NE, gaining Cows, Pigs and the corn in the BFC.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d143/Elenthrial/Civ4ScreenShot0022.jpg

Research path went: AH (to connect cows and pigs, Agri can wait a bit) -> BW (we want some bronze, but unfortunately, no Bronze around)

Here I decided for my first city, with no Bronze I really wanted chariots, so second city had to hook up Horses, placed St Petersburg to the East of moscow, gaining Rice, Horses and two wine.

After BW, research went to The Wheel to be able to hook up horses, the Agri, pottery, writing, IW (YES, Iron just outside capital BFC), Alphabeth

Building in Moscow went something like worker, warrior, warrior, settler, warrior worker, warrior, settler, chariot (I may have missed a warrior or added one somewhere, I had hoped the log would provide me with this...)

I was somewhat lucky with the huts, gained a warrior and a scout, some money and some maps, no techs though.

I found three happy neighbours, Pacal, Ragnar and Shaka. Oh my all down to the south, when writing came around I decided to open borders with Ragnar but noone else, I want to block Pacal and Shaka in before they can expand north, Ragnar seems to be way down south so no worries he'll expand up to my parts for some time.

So my Rexing became a fairly aggressive placement strategy. I did manage to get most cities where I wanted them, though Shaka spoiled one citysite but the backup plan wasn't too bad.
Here's the land at 825BC:

Southern russian empire:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d143/Elenthrial/Civ4ScreenShot0033-2.jpg

Northern russian empire:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d143/Elenthrial/Civ4ScreenShot0034-1.jpg

Do notice I haven't chopped any of Moscows nice forests, I do intend to keep them around. Unfortunately Moscow will not be my capital when my cottage heavy commercecity is founded south of moscow. Moscow will be a forest heavy, GPP/production site until National park comes around, I've always wanted a city with food sources for GPs and 10+ forests for free specialist from the NP.

And the all interesting powergraphs, I'm afraid I'm low on spypoints on Pacal and Ragnar so only Shaka is shown, but to be fair, Shaka is my main early concern. I've just set production to massproduce swords and axes, there might even be an early war in the next segment.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d143/Elenthrial/Civ4ScreenShot0035-1.jpg

Research so far, nothing much to brag about:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d143/Elenthrial/Civ4ScreenShot0036-1.jpg

Next I will see what I can get from the AI after Alphabet is done (probably all the religion ones, saving me researching them to reach CoL and Monarchy which is my main research priorities atm. I need monarchy for happiness reasons, for HR and to hook up the wine. Calendar will be needed on this map pretty early as well.

That's all for now, see you all in the next segment.

Invisible GP and Missionaries, possible bug?


The Icon for the GS is missing, on the unit toolbar above the sleep button. If i fortfy the GS then he disapears, you have to move the stack out of the city and then one by one move the units off the tile, then the GS reapears. Same for the missionaries. It can look like you have a great warrior! or a Hindu Archer. Is this just me?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185676&stc=1&d=1218573397

@KingMorgan: I think its the MOD you're using, you have to click the button that displays the stack differently. I am not familiar with that MOD, so I am not sure which button, but I am assuming its the one on the far left with the multiple rows of small boxes, that should display "all units". I think you are set to display only "combat units" and a GS is not a combat unit.

I'll be taking this on Prince/Epic.

Yay! A non seafood start! Finally! :)

I'm not going be able to start until tommorrow :sad: but I like the look of this start, I'm also looking at moving the settler 1 NE which looks like a sound move, however I'm also liking the idea of settling on the plains hill for that little extra boost right at the start.

Ok, now I know how to get killed with that one...

Hm... How do I prevent them from getting up into my area without killing my economy?

Oh boy. This one is fun. I'm off to a roaring start.

Prince/Epic ~ 800 B.C. I believe.

A quick post here. I'm on a break from cleaning my apartment before I move out *prays to get full security deposit back*

So, it's about 800 BC in my game and Pacal is dead. I took his capital which was the Hindu holy city and had Stonehenge (Great Prophet coming in a few dozen turns for shrine goodness). I'm done fine with tech thanks to the two gems that were above Mayan lands.

I thought Pacal would put up more of a fight, but I had to kill all of three warriors to conquer him. I had a stack of about 5 chariots, since I had nothing to build in my cities for a few turns. (My tech path was something like AH -> BW -> HBR for awhile, switched to IW when I realized I could take the jems.

Build order in Moscow was Worker -> Warrior -> Worker -> Warrior -> Settler -> Settler (both at least partially chopped).

Five cities currently. Moscow was settled 1NE, St. Petersburg was settled 1NW of the horses (to the east of Moscow), 3rd city was 1NE of the eastern jems, 4th City is 2N of the Rice near the peaks (also taking the Stone and has two FP in the BFC. There's enough food here to allow me to build all kinds of Plains mines :D, and Mutai was captured.

Writing has been researched, currently working on Alphabet so I can back fill the religious techs and get Monarchy for the happiness.

Immediate plan: Keep cranking out the Swords and Axes and go take out Shaka.

Screens soon, I promise.

First time poster, long time lurker... so be gentle :)

emperor/epic to 10AD

Settled on place, afterward thinking there might have been better places to settle for river and extra cow. But then again, now i got iron in my BFC for extra hammers.

Got agriculture, wheel and some money from huts

AH -> BW -> masonry -> writing -> IW -> alphabet -> beeline to literacy after that CS

Plan was basicly settle near the stone and build pyramids in moscow. With some luck and lots of chopping pyramids were up fast so i made Great Wall also. Great Wall turn out to be great investment cause my unguarded 3rd city got that barbarian event and 4 spearmen appeared next to its borders.

Iron mine was up right at time and i managed to get some swordmen to capture barbarian cities ( 3 total, kept 2 ). The money from them really helped with research.

Diplomatic situation at this moment is following: friendly with pacal and pleased with other 2. Whole continent has same religion.

Situation at 10AD:
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/riveri69/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg

Normally i would continue to riflemen/cavalry and have war there, but now i have already so many cities and still room for few more good ones that I could just stay peaceful and go for space victory. Also i have no idea who is on other continent (assuming that this is 2 continent game ). Shaka, Ragnar and pacal are warmongers, but maybe other civs are all techers and going war would put me behind them... :confused:

Playing this one myself, so here is my first report,

Emperor, Epic, 4000 BC - 380 BC, with Iron Working done:
I chose to settle 1SE, since my scout started in a new spot when I restarted that showed me more cows and river that way. I started my Worker, and my scout promptly popped another scout from his first hut. That allowed me to get a bunch more huts, and by the time I had explored my area and found my neighbors, I had a solid 300+ gold in the bank, as well as a free tech, Archery.

With Shaka to my SE, and Pacal to my SW, and a lot of land in between, as well as plenty to the east, west and north, I decided to be VERY aggressive settling. Also, after spotting the Stone, I decided I would be after two of the stronger wonders on this kind of map, The Great Wall and The Pyramids.

So I got a 2nd city out FAST, and claimed the Stone, Rice, 2-Floodplaiin site toward Pacal. I got the Stone up and running quickly, and used whip-overflow to bust our a few more settlers while building those 2 stone-based Wonders. I actually sort of forgot I was playing Emperor level, and over-expanded badly. Luckily, I had headed to Writing pretty quickly, so I was able to chop/whip out Libraries in all my cities, but I have been running at 0% slider for a lot of turns, heh. Once the Mids came in, though, I was teching pretty well for 0%, although I am well behind the AIs. I am not worried though, I have some solid cities that will be SE-powerhouses once I get them up and running at full-steam. Here is a screen of my current Empire. I settled the Iron a couple turns ago, since I was gaining a couple gold a turn at 0%, heh.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Bleys_bucket/NC%20XI%20Cathy/Civ4ScreenShot0186.jpg

I love how the Barbs have settled 2 spots I had in mind for future cities. I will take them soon once I hook up the Iron. Might even get enough culture to flip them, heh. Next up is the Wine-Cows, and Crab-Silver areas, as well as the Iron to the NE. Lots of room for fillers later too, my kind of map, once I get near Rifling, I will probably drop in a few more cities to draft from.

Heres the Cap:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Bleys_bucket/NC%20XI%20Cathy/Civ4ScreenShot0187.jpg

Popped a GS already, so I am not doing to baddly on beakers at all. Decided to settle him, he wont be my first, and I dont really have the beakers yet for an Academy. Next one will likely be an Academy, followed by bulbing Philosophy and then maybe part of Education if needed for the Lib race, but I think I will have a pretty solid tech rate soon enough. Pretty straightforward, proven formula, really.

As I said, quick 2nd city grabbed the Stone-Rice-Floods, 3rd city got the Banana-Dye area to cut off Shaka (2 tiles north of the spot I wanted GRR, he beat my settle by a couple turns), 3rd city got the Gems-Cows (which was a big reason for the early IW, the other, of course, no copper and the Barbs grabbed my Horses), and the 4th city got the Cows-Floodplains on the West Coast, serving to complete the "line of blocking cities". I have a nice chunk of land left to settle as well, with a solid mix of resources, production, rivers, etc. I hope folks are enjoying this one, its a great map to REX on, and the temptation to over-REX is hard to resist, heh.

Bleys:


Nice one. Heh, I ended up ALMOST on strike but I got those gems down SE mined really fast, and I made it. I see I took a similar strat to yours, I must be doing something right! :)


My report:

2000BC-10AD:



I nabbed two wonders this round: TGW and the Pyramids, both of which will be useful, and were speeded along by the Stone. I had a nice report planned out, but I accidenly lost it, so I'll just give a summary and pics. I REXed some more nabbing 4 cities, and built up more of an army. I teched through currency/CoL and my economy isn't horrid.

Pics:



http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc325/CivKrick19/Civ4ScreenShot0000-1.jpg
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc325/CivKrick19/Civ4ScreenShot0001-1.jpg
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc325/CivKrick19/Civ4ScreenShot0002-1.jpg
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc325/CivKrick19/Civ4ScreenShot0003-1.jpg
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc325/CivKrick19/Civ4ScreenShot0005-1.jpg
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc325/CivKrick19/Civ4ScreenShot0006-1.jpg
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc325/CivKrick19/Civ4ScreenShot0007-1.jpg
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc325/CivKrick19/Civ4ScreenShot0008-1.jpg

Screens, as promised:


Capitol and 2nd city:
http://i312.photobucket.com/albums/ll329/viaarete/Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg

3rd and 4th cities:
http://i312.photobucket.com/albums/ll329/viaarete/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg

Close up of Roston (anyone else see a production-center here?)
http://i312.photobucket.com/albums/ll329/viaarete/Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg

Mutai (captured Mayan capitol):
http://i312.photobucket.com/albums/ll329/viaarete/Mutai0000.jpg

Domestic Advisor:
http://i312.photobucket.com/albums/ll329/viaarete/Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg

Early Tech Tree:
http://i312.photobucket.com/albums/ll329/viaarete/Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg

Score Chart (for my ego):
http://i312.photobucket.com/albums/ll329/viaarete/Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpg

Lastly, my soon-to-be-conquered neighbor :devil::
http://i312.photobucket.com/albums/ll329/viaarete/Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg


@ Bleys & rolo: Thanks for the game. It's been a fun one thus far!

@KingMorgan: I think its the MOD you're using, you have to click the button that displays the stack differently. I am not familiar with that MOD, so I am not sure which button, but I am assuming its the one on the far left with the multiple rows of small boxes, that should display "all units". I think you are set to display only "combat units" and a GS is not a combat unit.
Yep. That's BUG mod 3.0, not a bug. The crossed swords button is clicked which means only military units show up. Click it again and you'll get to see everything on the tile.

4000 BC: Scout SW revealing sheep, wheat, floodplains. Settler 1 NE.
I want to do this for levee later if the game goes that far.

3960 BC: Settle Moscow, start a worker and tech agriculture, he will farm the corn first, settling also revealed the grass hill pig, a solid GP farm so we'll likely move the capital later on for the Bureaucracy bonus. Scout moves SE to the hut and:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0033.jpg
3720 BC: Scout has swung around to NE and pops the hut there for 37 gold.

3600 BC: Agriculture in, start AH next for cows + pigs

3560 BC: Pop the hut directly west of the borders and get a scout, he goes back NE.

3440 BC: Buddhism FIADL.

IBT: SW scout whacks panther and takes woodsman I

3400 BC: pop a hut in the north for:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg
Start archery for barb defense, not going to gamble on bronze with our super capital :lol:

3360 BC: Finish worker, start warrior, go to the corn.

3320 BC: Meet the first AI, Ragnar:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg
LOL, just kidding... We make nice, for now...

3240 BC: Meet Shaka and take a short break while I go kill rolo.

*returns to keyboard*

Okay.. Where were we??

3120 BC: Finish Archery, start BW. Pop a hut in the south:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg
Also popped a map in NE this turn.

3040 BC: Shaka adopts slavery.

2920 BC: Shaka DoW on me and I promptly quit. :wallbash:






Kidding again, of course :p, but I did lol at this:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg

2880 BC: Warrior finished, start archer, it'll finish at size 5 for our second worker, then settler.

2480 BC: BW finished, start IW, also have one turn into the settler now and have a worker on the way to our spot, which you'll see in the review screens.

2160 BC: Have finished yet another worker and have archer -> settler queued and have chosen another spot, here's a map:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg

The "1"'s signify what I hope to settle in the first "wave", or, the best blocking spots, "2"'s are 2nd wave, but still priority and the "3" is backfill material. the 1 in the north looks marginal as a city but has a silver, and can feed itself up to pop 9 IIRC.

2120 BC: Found St. Petersburg and start an archer:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg
1760 BC: Found Novgorod and start an archer:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg
Had to move it 1N because Shaka is fast :eek:

1680 BC: Settler finishes and heads to another good spot, also this event:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpg
1480 BC: Rostov founded but I lost the screen. Got IW and started Writing

1360 BC: FINALLY mine a gems by St Petersburg and can push slider up 20%

So here's the situation:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0008.jpg
I've completely crashed the economy very fast. Stay tuned for Part II: RECOVERY!
PS: The "2" near rice + wines is going 2 south, I labeled it before AH ;)

Save:

Here is my attempt. Its only my second try at a noble difficulty game its not in bad shape. I am playing at marathon speed.
I forgot to take initial screenshot:blush:
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm20/xl_single_malt/opening-moves0000.jpg
I marked settler and scout starts (both AH resources hidden), along with initial scout move which revealed cows. The rest is self explanatory. Build order was warrior, worker, settler, archer (I popped archery from a goody hut:)). Research queue was AH, agri, wheel, BW, Pottery, writing, then the CoL line, IW. I had a lot of luck with goody huts - archery, gold, exp, a scout and warrior...not a bad haul, considering I did not go out of my way for em:). The screenie for the resultant scouting and my meeting of Shaka, Pacal and Ragnar are all corrupted unfortunately:mad:

Empire at 1840
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm20/xl_single_malt/my-empire-18400000.jpg

1380 CoL done (no slingshot, was beaten to oracle), and Confucianism founded. I didn't change, as I was unsure as to religious situation as Pacal had Hinduism, and Shaka converted to it.
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm20/xl_single_malt/conf-founded0000.jpg
With CoL done it was straight for IW, and in 1200 (when I realised a few turns after researching) iron outside Moscow's BFC
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm20/xl_single_malt/iron-at-12000000.jpg
Then onto masonry and Monarchy. State of affairs at 930BC
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm20/xl_single_malt/state-of-affairs-at-930-bc0.jpg
Not looking the worst. I had the luck of having lots of cash from goody huts, allowing me to research at 30-35 BPT while REXing, now my courthouses are being built, and cottages maturing, so by AD I should have better BPT again. There is one more city to settle in the tundra up north 2 silver and horses. The military build up will begin now that iron is had. Swords and horse archers, here we come.

Who to hit first though? Shaka or Pacal? They share religions, Pacal is small from my recon, while Shaka has a larger empire (He beat me to a spot I had in mind for banana and dye). I am thinking Shaka, cos afaik he has not got iron or copper yet (he does have unused iron [no tech for it yet?] in cultural borders). And he will cause problems later. I have not opened border with anyone bar Ragnar as he is furthest away and I want to protect my back from settlers. I will have to get the whip out for the first time tomorrow regardless who I choose to DoW.

I might peacefully build up army and economy first though, as it is probably a little fragile to withstand a war in its current state.
I attached saves if anyone wants a closer look. Its my second attempt at a noble difficulty game, so any advice is appreciated.

:crazyeye: 610 AD


Well... as I said in my previous post, Shaka was my next victim. He went down fairly quickly and I still had a loaded stack, so, once I healed up I decided to go for Ragnar. The power rating still had me at about 1.5 compared to him, so I figured it was worth the effort.

Ragnar went down without putting up much a fight, so the continent is now mine. I'm sitting at 0% research and still losing about 30 gpt. I can keep this up for about 9 turns before units start disbanding, but whipped courthouses should be able to pretty well negate the gold pouring out of my treasury. I'll wait till my economy is out of the gutter before posting a somewhat more detailed update. The save's included if you'd like to take a look.

Got sort of involved in this game, here's another set for Emperor/Normal, a good comparison for Bleys game (same time frame). Be warned, it's not as nice as his, because I didn't get masonry yet, which means, no 'mids :p
1360 BC: Well I need some cash really bad here, so I pull a little swap and put hammers into stonehenge at Moscow.

1160 BC: 'Henge BIADL. I'M RICH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (read: I got 73 gold) Crank up tech for writing in 3 :p

1040 BC: Writing in, start Wheel towards pottery.

1000 BC: Whip libraries in Novgorod and Moscow.

950 BC: Hire some scientists at last :p

900 BC: Wheel in, start Pottery (4)
Let's take a peek inside Rostov, which is shaping up to be an absolute production MONSTER:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0000-1.jpg
Just look at that, stone, a bunch of hills and a nice river which will take watermills later on!

800 BC: Pottery in, start Aesthetics.

700 BC: Everyone is Buddhist at this point so I immediately sign OB with all to start gaining diplo, hopefully I'll get a random spread too :)

625 BC: Yaroslavl founded, start a work boat. Worker goes to hook up silver. This city is mostly to grab the silver, so I can grow to size 6.
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0002-1.jpg
575 BC: Novgorod pops borders, completing the seal on the north:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0003-1.jpg
Found Yekaterinburg and start a granary, lost this screen.

350 BC: Important turn, buddhism spreads to me so I convert ASAP for diplo. Also settle GS in Moscow.
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0007-1.jpg
Stopped at 325 BC, a good comparison point for this game and Bleys (both emperor). Bleys is in better shape at the moment, but I think I'll soon take off once I get my cities up to happy caps.

Some review screens (These are from 375 BC, not much has changed :lol:)
Map:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0004-1.jpg

I hope to be at 8-9 cities before AD crossover, and to that end, I have another settler in the queue at Moscow. I also have blocked off enough land for 10 good cities peacefully, as if that's possible with Shaka and Ragnar......

Demo:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0005-1.jpg

This is looking very nice, GNP didn't slide too far and I'm tops in Production and Land, which are the best stats to look at in the BC years, especially on Emperor+ and even more so in a REX.

Power:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0006-1.jpg

Not too shabby considering the quick expansion.. I can start deleting archers as axes/swords come in to save on unit costs.

EDIT: Also wanted to add that I'm about 95% sure that Nobamba (Shaka's city near Novgorod) will flip to me. He has 0 culture in it so far and it's currently 97% Russian :D

@schwartz:
I am doing all that great actually, heh, in a week or so I will explain why. Some actually already know, but I dont want to spoil it for everyone.

You are doing an outstanding job mate, get those Libraries up and you will be fine. Lots of excellent tiles to work in this game, thats for sure.

1000 BC debriefing.

Hey, Bleys: Thank you for the cow "de-confusion"; invisible cow disease would have been too aggressive. To the game, as the Steve McQueen character in The Magnificent Seven related, "So far; so good."
The scout strategy did not net the cash I sought (151G) but I had the meet and greet with Pacal II, Shaka and the other trouble-maker on their own turf. The tech path was BW, AH, Archery, IW, Masonry, Pottery, Agriculture, Writing, Alphabet. The four Russian cities string 1NW of the horse to 1W of the wheat, on the line south of Moscow which has the GW (so, barbarians are not my pals). Unhappiness is approaching and two of the neighbours are not gentle folks so I am going to try to chop out the Pyramids in Moscow for HR.
The puzzle? Continue REXing or tech to HBR in case of an opportunistic war.
Does the puzzle have a third element?

@Bleys:
Yeah I'm not too bad so far, I'm going to tech off Masonry after Aest. and build the 'Mids in Rostov while turning Madrid into a scientist farm to settle or bulb my way to lib.
The main thing is that I feel lost without Spiritual, I have 5 wins at immortal, all spiritual civs (Gandhi, Mansa, Hatty, Asoka, and Justinian) so I've come to rely on the trait too much :(
I have no doubt that I'll win this game without too many problems, because even Shaka can't touch me right now :p

My game on Noble, Epic Speed only option Choose Religion

Research went Animal Handling-> Agriculture-> Bronze Working-> Wheel-> Writing-> Mysticism-> Polytheism-> Priesthood-> Aesthetics-> Literature
Build Order
Moscow: Worker-> Warrior-> Warrior-> Warrior-> Settler-> Warrior-> Worker-> Warrior-> Settler-> Library-> Great Wall-> Stonehenge(biadl)-> Oracle-> Pyramids
St.Petersburg: Barracks ->Chariot ->Chariot -> Settler -> Chariot -> Chariot->
Novgorod: Library ->Granary -> Worker
Rostov: Granary ->
4000bc Move 1 NE to settle by the river.
3975bc Founded Moscow
3700bc Christianity was fiadl - choose religion option
3600bc animal husbandry discovered. Horses to the East by South East
3400bc Worker finished, Random Event(Industrious Villagers built a pasture on the pigs 2S1E of Moscow) very nice event at this stage of the game
3350bc Agriculture discovered. Judaism fiadl. Pop a hut for a Map that revealed the Zulu to the South... great war it is. Let not meet them yet.
3250bc Pop a hut for a scout. Find the ocean to the east
3175bc Warrior finished. Start another one as i work the Cows and Pigs to grow with a bit of production thrown it. Warrior goes North to check the tundra.
3125bc Meet Ragnar via a Scout of his East of Moscow. More fun but at least i can usually work with him.
3100bc Get the health quest... yeah i take the happy hit for the moment and have +2 health Civ wide. Meet Pacal II. More fun... he usual hates me. No one with religion yet.
3050bc Finish 2nd Warrior start 3rd one. Pop is at 3 and happy cap until the health event unhappiness goes away.
3025bc Warrior in the tundra pops Masonry from a hut. Moscow popped 2nd boarder expansion
2975bc Meet Shaka via a scout south of Pacal II.
2950bc Finish 3rd Warrior start a Settler. 1 turn from growth but i am at the happy limit for the time it will take to build the Settler (9 turns)
2875bc Bronze Working in. Start on the Wheel. No visiable Bronze on the map. Need to grab the horses then. I bet one of these AIs have some in there BFC. Shaka if past games are any clue. :P
2725bc Settler finish send him a warrior toward the horses. I will end up 1 off the river but other wise it looks to be a good production site. Need to make the next city a commerce city if i am going to fund much expansion.
2700bc All Melee receive Cover.... nice this is almost becoming too easy. Warrior done start Worker.
2650bc St. Petersburg Founded. Need a boarder pop to get horses and rice but hey Cathy has it covered.
2600bc The Wheel is in and Writing is started.
2500bc Worker finished. Start Warrior.
2475bc Warrior done. Start a Warrior.
2450bc St. Petersburg boarders pop. I now have horse in my culture and 2 workers getting them hooked up. So no more warriors.
2325bc Warrior to the east on fog busting duty got ate by a bear...
2250bc Settler finished started Library.
2150bc Ragnar reminds me to Open Boarders with everyone. No Religions on this content.
2125bc Novgorod Founded to the south in a great cottage area. It grabs Stone and grassland cows. With 3 flood plains and the cows this will grow pretty good and the stone/cows and 2 hills will give it some production to get important building. I will be really interested where everyone else founded.
2100bc Moscow Library done start Great Wall. Pottery in start Mysticism
2075bc Moscow about to grow into unhappiness. Switch to Slavery (1 round Anarchy)
2050bc Drop Granary into the Queue in Moscow
2025bc 2pop whip Granary in Moscow MM the city to grow back to 5 pop in 14 turns so the max production will be used before unhappiness wares off
1975bc Discover Mysticism start Polytheism.
1950bc St.Petersburg finish Barracks starts Chariot. MM to use mine/horses/flood plains farm. Hooking up Stone in Novgorod.
1900bc Stone hooked up. Great Wall finish time drops to 6. 1900bc and no wonders does not seem like there are any industrious leaders around. I figure stonehenge should have fallen by now.
1775bc St.Petersburg Chariot finish. Start another Chariot. Polytheism is in start Priesthood.
1750bc Moscow finish Great Wall. Start Stonehenge. Might as well leverage this stone.
1675bc Stonehenge can no longer be worked on(62 gold).. still waiting for the biadl message... oh well we would rather work on the oracle anyway. Moscow -> Oracle. Priesthood in start Aesthetics. Library whipped 1 pop in Novgorod.
1600bc Content Explored.
1475bc St.Petersburg finish Chariot. Start Settler.
1425bc Horse Whispering quest pops up... do think i will actively pursue it.
1400bc 2pop whip Oracle to finish 2 turns earlier. 2 pop whip settler in St.Petersburg
1375bc Oracle in for Metal Casting. Start Pyramids in Moscow. St.Petersburg starts a Chariot.
1300bc Rostov Founded by gems and cow on east side. Starts Granary.
1250bc St.Petersburg Finish Chariot start Chariot.
1225bc Novgorod finish Granary start worker.
850bc Novgorod finish worker starts barracks.
800bc Moscow finish Pyramids switch to Representation immediately. Start Barracks.
775bc Stop here for this round
The North
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185700&stc=1&d=1218602773
Mid
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185701&stc=1&d=1218602773
South
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185702&stc=1&d=1218602773
Ragnar is below the south pic but his lands are not really a concern yet.



Any comments would be appreciated.

Bleys & Patagonia - Many thanks will check it once i'm home, guess it's my fat fingered mistake.

Okay I've made a start, I'm already liking this map!

Here's my report, I've also made a small dotmap for my first few cities so please have look and also I posted a question in a seperate spoiler

Update 1975BC - Prince/Epic

Intial thoughts

I going to try out some things that I don't normally use this Nobles Club. I never use mounted units, so as Cathy's Unique Unit is a cossack I'm going to try and make better use of horsies this game. I rarely use espionage so again I'm going to put a bit more effort into that too (Not a fully fledged espionage economy or anything). So I'm going to be using spies/mounted units in my early wars.

With Cathy being Imperialistic I'll have a go at building the Great Wall and maybe let it generate a couple of spies before I go chasing scientists for bulbing stuff and acadamies.


Start 4000BC

Moving my scout to the south revealed pigs & a grassland cow

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/GrooNCIX2000BC_02.jpg

So I decided to settle 1 South East for Corn/Cow/Pigs plus its riverside. I also have the option of not needed to go for bronzeworking straight away as there are four decent improvable tiles that don't require chopping.

My opening build was a Worker while I teched Aggriculture > Archery (I hate building warriors!) and my scout managed to get quite a few huts, not that it helped me much, popping Mysticism, Map, Map, Map. My scout finally popped something useful, a warrior, which then died in the next few turns when he popped a hostile village.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/GrooNCIX2000BC_03.jpg

Met the Neighbours Pacal, Shaka and Rags.

After the worker I started to build Archers while growing and improving tiles, then switched to building workers/settlers my tech path went... Animal Husb > Wheel > Masonry > Bronzeworking (No Copper). I connected stone with my first city and whipped a worker into the Great wall and finished it of with a forrest chop.

My plan from here is to go Pottery > Ironworking while I settle to the south towards Shaka and Pacal.


The Capital

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/GrooNCIX2000BC_04.jpg


St. Petersburg which I'll be using primarily as a unit pump.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/GrooNCIX2000BC_05.jpg

Dotmap

Here's my opening dotmap covering the south which I'm thinking of settling first to grab all those city nice sommerce sites. 1, 2, & 3 will just be Commerce cities, 4 I'm planning to use as a GP farm.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/groogart/GrooNCIX2000BC_01.jpg

My Question

My main dilema is I still have 27 Turns before Iron working is in, but need to get those southern jungle sites settled quickly so do I just settle them anyway? even though they'll just be a drag until I get thge forrest cleared. Should have made Ironworking more of a priority I guess.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Groogaroo -
Comments on the dotmap:
I'd move #1 1SW to add rice, you can beat Shaka there if it's on Prince.
$2 is fine but don't steal the rice tile from the production beast up there :D
#3 is good but you'll probably only get either that or #1, not both, so if you miss here, move it 2N, 1E
#4 is good where it is, but not much of a GP farm. The capital is much better for that
You have to settle those cities ASAP, you're not going to get them if you wait 27 turns for IW. Settle #1 first, it has some cleared spaces to work while IW comes in.

@groogaro

You do want to settle those southern cities quickly, else I'm sure Shaka will be up and atleast spoiling your city marked (1). With city 1 and 2 you block of Shaka good enough, followed up with 4 he's not going anywhere north without taking to his warlike obsession. Pacal on the other hand didn't expand north in my game at this point in the game. But on the other hand, you want the gems hooked up quickly for a boost in the economy. I put my gemcity on the grassland 1N of eastern gem (SW of cows). Sure, you'll loose rice and dye but on the other hand, you can get it up and running before ironworking.

Recovery Part I - To 880 AD
325 BC: Start moving swords towards Visigoth near the Rice+Wines site.

275 BC: Aesthetics in, start Masonry.

225 BC: Burn Visigoth for 62 gold.

200 BC: 'Mids BIADL. AHHHHHH!

175 BC: Masonry -> Polytheism towards Literature.

100 BC: Found Yakutsk, start workboat.
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0000-2.jpg
50 BC: Polytheism in, start Alphabet (no one has it)

25 BC: Start the Parthenon in Moscow.

1 AD: Start ToA in Rostov.

75 AD: GS born in Moscow, he builds an academy there.

200 AD: ToA and GLH BIADL. More money :D

225 AD: Ragnar gets alpha, finally, so do I, start literature.
Russian revolt in Nobamba :woohoo:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0001-2.jpg
250 AD: Some trades with Pacal:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0002-2.jpg
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0003-2.jpg
For some reason he wouldn't give me all that for Aest + Alpha :huh:
325 AD: Literature in and start Currency.

400 AD: Vladivostok founded and starts granary.
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0004-2.jpg
425 AD: Currency in and start CoL.
More trades:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0005-2.jpg
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0006-2.jpg
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0007-2.jpg
500 AD: Start GL in Rostov because I'll miss it otherwise :(

560 AD: CoL in, revolt to Caste and HR.

600 AD: Shoot CoL to Rags for HBR.

620 AD: Wines to Pacal for Silk. Also get 160 gold for free from him.

640 AD:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0008-1.jpg
Hoping the NE + Parthenon artists pollution won't spawn a bunch of those :(
760 AD: GS born in Novgorod, he bulbs Philo. Tao founded in Yakutsk.
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0009-1.jpg
Miss the GL this turn, bleh.

780 AD: Shot Philo around a bit to catch up tech-wise. I traded with Shaka first, because he's only pleased and therefore may fall into WFYABTA if I trade with Pacal first.
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0010.jpg
Here's how the tech screen looks after that:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0011.jpg
800 AD: Wines to Shaka for fish, I need + diplo here because he's back at cautious due to -3 close border.

Shaka poaches my city site, he will pay, mark my words.
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0012.jpg
860 AD: CS in so start Machinery. Revolt into Bureaucracy and OR.

880 AD: CS to Pacal for Machinery + 40.
Stop here, see next post for cities, GNP, Power, and analysis.
Save:

Recovery Part II - 880 AD State of The World:
Cities:http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0013.jpg
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0014.jpg
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0015.jpg
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0016.jpg
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0017.jpg
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0018.jpg
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0019.jpg
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0020.jpg
St Petersburg is getting irrigated right now so it can grow.
GNP:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0021.jpg

This looks encouraging, I'm climbing again.
Power:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0022.jpg

This? Not so much... Need to get my cats + HAs rolling out quick (Rostov will help after the court.)

From here, I need to boost power while teching along towards lib I hope to follow Paper -> Edu (part bulb) -> Gunpowder -> Nationalism -> Lib (Mil Trad) and wipe Shaka out with Cuirassiers while teching to Rifling and continuing forward with Cossacks.

Thanks for the tips :)

Emp/Epic --- 10AD - 990AD

10AD - 100AD: Ragnar started to run around my area with horse archers so i pushed out fast some axemen to capture last barbarian city. Ragnar's troops did me a favor and weakened the defences so finishing it was easy job for my axes. Razed the city cause it wasnt on the best spot.

100AD - 150AD: Build settlers for 2 more cities. One filled the gap near shaka and pacal, its going to be nice production city later in game. And second one took the resources next to razed barbarian city.

200AD: Shaka declares war on me, i bribe pacal into it and i basicly just defend my cities.

After CS i researched currency so that i could trade money from AIs to speed up my teching:
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/riveri69/Civ4ScreenShot0017.jpg

400ADish: War ended.

500AD: I trade world maps with pacal

Situation looks like this on world map:
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/riveri69/Civ4ScreenShot0018.jpg

Between 400-800AD didnt happen much... Ragnar vassalized pacal tho :sad:
so I cant bribe him into war again.

Pacal teched really fast partly because my cheap tech + money deals, so race for liberalism was quite close one. I got it 10 turns before pacal, year was 870AD.
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/riveri69/Civ4ScreenShot0019.jpg
I took nationalism cause i really didnt have any plan what to do with the free tech.

Situation atm:
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/riveri69/Civ4ScreenShot0022.jpg

Shaka got CS 50 years ago so he has macemen now, so i have to upgrade my defences fast before he gets idea to attack vs me. Tech wise shaka is still way behind me when pacal and ragnar are at same tech level with me. Still no sign of other civs from other continent, so im guessing they are not ahead atleast.

If nothing unexpected happens i can take shaka's cities on my next turns and head to space victory. Attacking ragnar feels abit risky...

@Googaroo, I saw in the moscow screen shot that you are working a grassland forest while building a worker. Working the corn gets the worker out faster. Excess food counts as hammers for workers.

One of the interesting things about Scenario start is that your own scout can start someplace different from the one in the posted starting position. Mine started 1NW of the picture, so I know where the cows are despite not initially seeing them.

Given 2 food sources and a river vs one visible source and a plains hill, I think I'll move 1NE as some have suggested, hoping that at Noble level the loss of 1 hammer for a while doesn't turn out to be a problem.

I think I'll tech Agr > husb > BW and build worker > warrior, delaying the first settler until it's possible to see horses or copper. Then let the REXing begin.

BTW: anyone know why Catherine went from Cre/Fin to Cre/Imp? Was it just to make room to have Willem be Cre/Fin?

Catherine went fron Cre/Fin to Cre/Imp in warlords.... Someone thinked that a Cre/Fin leader with a 18 str cossack avaliable with only MT was a little OP :p OTOH Preatorians and HC are just fine ;)

Monarch Marathon 4000bc-910bc Havent played Monarch mush but I am trying to learn.

Moved settler 1 NE and it gave me a wonderful food/production capital

http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u343/orzion/Civ4ScreenShot0086.jpg

I found stone nearby and quicly seteld to claim it. Evrythign looked great until I met the AI shaka and ragnar. Normaly I would rush shaka as soon as I see him but no damm cooper nearby so had to put that of the planes. Started wonderspaming the stone wonders .

2110 GW
2040 Stonhenge only took 2 turns so why not
1660 Mids
1560 Choped oracel from st petersburg and free COL

Then I went on a wild settler spaming/ rexing.
And quicly convinced shaka to join my religion

My empeor 910 bc
http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u343/orzion/Civ4ScreenShot0087.jpg

Cites
http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u343/orzion/Civ4ScreenShot0088.jpg

Now to my problem

Power Numbers
http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u343/orzion/Civ4ScreenShot0089.jpg

And shaka
http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u343/orzion/Civ4ScreenShot0090.jpg

Now I do have around 10 archers but as always shaka is a crazy troop spammer. And I forgot to say he just finished reasershing construction in 1000bc. My plan is to spread connfu around and gt the holy shirne but if it is me shaka is after I am in some serious troubel.

Small Update

2 turns after this shaka decided to declear war on me. Lucily the AI stupied war moment kicked in his stack of 7 units decided to attack my city with 5 Archers SC promoted. The city also had a wall and 50% culture defense. The problem is what to do now he can obviosuly build catapults and all I can throw on him is archers. SHould I try to make peace as soon as posibol or try to pilage and anoy him with the archers.

@Googaroo, I saw in the moscow screen shot that you are working a grassland forest while building a worker. Working the corn gets the worker out faster. Excess food counts as hammers for workers.

Ugh! Another one of my bad habits! I took off the corn to avoid growth and forgot to put it back on when building the worker :crazyeye:

Prince/Epic
To 2275 BC
Got a nice view of the north with my scout, decided to give some room up north to for some other city's, and moved SW
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185763&stc=1&d=1218662619
not bad, food and some hills, not alot, but thats what watermills and workshops are for at least i can cottage the rivers for now and work the food while rexing.

In Moscow i went Scout,Worker,Warrior, Warrior, Settler,Barracks

was gonna put settler 4th, but i forgot to switch the warrior off while i was letting it grow a bit, i have poor micromanaging skills.

Met Pascal, don't know much about his personality, any hints???
Met Shaka....great:cry:
Pascal founded Buddhism
...im thinking this continent should be mine before rifling

popped some money from huts, got a map,woo hoo:rolleyes:,managed to snag a warrior from a hut right next to pascal territory, next turn the borders popped, close one.
met Ragnar, i have no idea where his land is, im thinking in the deep south, in tundra...probably a crab,fur,silver in overabundance surrounded by ice city i haven't seen yet, saw his scout so he's on the continent..hopefully he might become shaka's plaything and not me

something quite interesting happened that will have consequences on the other continent
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185764&stc=1&d=1218663512
thats mighty interesting, and quite hilarious, will lead to two superpowers on the other continent however.
so i researched bronze working last, yeah i know i should have done it sooner to whip out a settler or two, no copper around so im gonna aim for that horse city.
i settled a city 2 turns before the round ended
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185766&stc=1&d=1218663763
and here is my attempt at a dot map, not sure about the sequence of citys, or if i want to try snuggling up next to shaka and pascal. either one may be suicidal, shaka's power and pascal's Buddha culture capital, so im thinking of not going into the jungle belt
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185767&stc=1&d=1218663994

any help would be appreciated, this is my third prince game, and second epic speed game, so i would like it if anyone could give me some feed back on anything, next round i will probably rex a lot harder

Emperor/Epic to 1k BC

Settled 1 NE. Went AH BW AG early. Scouted a bit. Worker warrior worker.

Scouted around to see that zulu and maya are immediate neighbors - maya are buddhist others nothing. AH revealed horses, I don't see nearby bronze.

In 2150 I've circled shaka and I don't see bronze there either. He DOES have gems though. Basically I've already pegged him for a chariot rush, and settled my 2nd city accordingly.

1575 I get some luck and moscow pops gems. I settle my 3rd city towards shaka (ideally a rush uses 2 cities and is sooner, but his lack of copper, distance, and maya proximity dictate otherwise. I'm teching IW to see if he has iron and where, so I can pillage it ASAP if need be. I can abandon the rush and still have room to expand easily also.

1150 I find zulu iron but where it is located I think I can pillage it.

1000 I'm nearly ready to hit zululand - I intend to take Ulundi and uMgungundlovu then call it quits - expanding into my own territory also then.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/nc%20cathy/975zuluwarprep0000.jpg

The route is through the south to pillage Iron 1st turn. Scouting is very important - I know that's his only source of metal which can easily mean winning vs losing the war.

Ugh! Another one of my bad habits! I took off the corn to avoid growth and forgot to put it back on when building the worker :crazyeye:
Thats one of mine as well. I tend to over-micromanage my tiles for optimum whipping and chopping overflows and such, and I am constantly forgetting to switch to "full on" for Workers and Settlers.

Query: This is 3.17 with Solver's Patch, yeah?

WBs saves are not patch specific, except in very rare cases. This one is not one of them, so you can play with 3.13 with or without Bhruic patch or 3.17 with or without Solver's one.

Emp/Epic to 550 AD

775 BC - I declare on shaka. I have 14 chariots and actually equal power rating to him. I capture a worker on this turn, next turn I can hit ulundi and pillage iron.
750 BC Ulundi and another worker are mine. I know he has an impi or so somewhere, but his iron is gone now and therefore shaka is down metal. I took some heavy losses just hitting the archer/sword/axe combo in ulundi so I will need to regroup.
625 I capture the 2nd city I was targeting - this should cripple shaka really badly. I'll now seek peace with my 227 gold, -5 gpt, and actual trade network. Of course, shaka does have a 3 impi 2 sword 1 cat stack on the counterattack. I may wind up razzing a city of his and camping to get him to take peace.
525 Shaka's stack beats out 4 archers and 3 chariots to take novgorod over 2 turns, eh.
425 Shaka's impi shredded my counterattack chariots left over from taking his cities :(. I am camping novgorod with axes to take it back.
380 I recapture novgorod :). This allows me to take peace with shaka, keeping all his cities also.
230 BC - I settle the SE gems city to wall off Pacal, and to of course get gems. -24 GPT at 30% science :(. I'm already very backwards too :(. I drop science to 0% so that I'm only losing 8 gpt - I have 150 gold so this can buy me some time.
10 AD I start researching aesthetics - only because it's a tech none of the AIs have and it will probably help me buy monarchy and some other stuff. I'm very behind in tech but that's to be expected. Here's the empire:
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/nc%20cathy/10adnorth0000.jpg
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/nc%20cathy/10adsouth0000.jpg
355 AD I capture Vandal to get to 8 cities. I traded aesthetics for math and monarchy, nobody has currency yet so I'm headed for that planning to trade it for CoL. This is going to be a SLOW tech game for me :(. On the bright side, we're all 1 religion, only shaka hates me enough to DoW me, and he's actually WEAKER than me :).
370 I was attempting paya (yeah right). I get some gold :).
550 AD things look a bit better. One of the things I tell a lot of players on here is "if you can take land without getting yourself killed, take it". Losing money at 0% slider seems bad but With enough land cities you can always bounce back if you don't get attacked/slaughtered. In my particular case due to sharing religion/diplo/power (over shaka) I'm actually pretty safe. Also, shaka is screwed :). I was behind earlier but now things are looking better since I shopped currency around - courthouses are about to be built in all cities, I'll backfill everwhere after that, and the lib race looks like I'm still in it unless the other continent went hog wild techwise. Obviously I'm a military player and I'm going for my usual win via war tactics in this one. Actually, I plan on giving the UU a whirl (even though its special properties won't help me much) to take over the continent - pacal is small and shaka is crippled. Doubt rags can hang onto the kind of production advantage I'll have :).

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/nc%20cathy/550ADnorth0000.jpg
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/nc%20cathy/550adcentral0000.jpg
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/nc%20cathy/550adsouth0000.jpg
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/nc%20cathy/550ADtech0000.jpg


Edit: Pics are in for the first 2 segments now.

@TMIT:
LOL you rush on a map that is just MADE for the peaceful REX. Love it! I waited until Cuirassiers to attack Shaka (MT off lib.) My war set will be posted within a little while :D

@TMIT:
LOL you rush on a map that is just MADE for the peaceful REX. Love it! I waited until Cuirassiers to attack Shaka (MT off lib.) My war set will be posted within a little while :D

Not only did I rush, I used STOCK CHARIOTS on SHAKA :rolleyes:.

It looks like I'm the most tech-poor emperor player in this thread :p. I saw the same "lots of land" everyone else did. I then thought "I can settle this peacefully, but there are warmongers here". Then Pacal founded a religion, and I decided to weaken the only threat that remained near me then. IMO I still blocked pretty effectively, and this will allow me to get pretty huge very soon.

Pacal is weak sauce - he only has 5 cities. Rags can't be bribed to declare on the others at pleased so I think I'm ok too (although I do have the power rating to kick him down anyhow - I think I have like .7-.8 of his power). I do worry about the revenge of Shaka but eh - as long as that power thing shows greater than 1.0 at the bottom there I don't think shaka will get too fussy. I'd actually be ok/happy if he did though - I have well over 10 units of mostly axes/few swords, some with CR II and 2 with CR III. I'd be more than happy to take the cities I've isolated from the rest of his empire without diplo penalty.

Actually all the emperor submissions currently look like wins :). You said you were in bad shape and had recovery segments and you actually out-teched me :lol:. Good luck!

The third set, aka: "How to crash your economy twice"
900 AD: In anticipation of the Cuirassiers idea, I start a stable in Moscow after the monastery there finished.

920 AD: Hurricane in Yakutsk.... Lose the stable
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0023.jpg
940 AD: Shaka poisons Yekaratinburg.. :coffee:
Also Ragnar decides he loves me, so send him Philo + CS for Compass, Feudalism + 90.
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0025.jpg
980 AD:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0024.jpg

1000 AD: Paper done, so start education.

1020 AD: Moscow pops a scientist, bulb edu to 3 turns.
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0026.jpg
Found Smolensk and start a Granary.

1050 AD: Finish Education and start gunpowder.

1090 AD: GS born in Yekaratinburg, he starts a golden age to burn through
gunpowder -> nationalism quickly.
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0027.jpg
On the way to miltrad I send Compass + Paper to Pacal for Music, Map, 120.

1120 AD: Pacal gets Nationalism, and WILL trade right now, so I will make a deal for it ASAP.

1130 AD: Paper + Music to Ragnar for: Engineering, Map, 60.
Shaka founds Islam :lol:

1140 AD: GS born in Moscow, settled, run Merchants now.

1150 AD: Edu + 55 gold to Pacal for Nationalism, now it's a flat race to Lib so build wealth all around and tech at 100% (5 turns to lib)
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0028.jpg

1190 AD: Lib due next turn so trade Ragnar Education for Guilds, Drama, and 90.

1200 AD: Lib -> Military Tradition.
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0029.jpg
Start some cuirassiers, science to 0 so I can upgrade some HAs that I prebuilt. Choose PP towards RP and Rifling.

1230 AD: Nationalism to Ragnar for Optics, Theology, Map, 90.

1260 AD: GM born in Moscow, send him for a trade mission.

1290 AD: Shaka poisons Moscow..

1310 AD: Trade mission in Nidaros for 1100 gold upgrade most HAs to Cuirassiers. Here is the stack:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0030.jpg
1320 AD: Pacal has MT so send Lib + MT to Ragnar for Chemistry, Banking, 470, map.

1340 AD: Shaka poisons Novgorod and that pisses me off, but he's been WHEOOHRN for a few turns so I wait

1350 AD: And the wait pays off! IT'S ON!!!!!!!!!! (Shaka DoW and loses a boatload of obsolete crap attacking my stack of cuirassiers. I steal no fewer than 4 workers from him on the spot that he poached from me earlier.
The fighting gives me 2(!) GGs and I move one towards Rostov to settle. The other is attached to a cuirassier for a medic III

1360 AD: Capture and keep Nodwengu (the one that Shaka stole from me!) It has a settled GS.
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0031.jpg
1370 AD: Capture and keep Nobamba.
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0032.jpg
Chemistry to Pacal for economics + 130
The fighting nets me a third GG which is settled in Moscow.

1380 AD: Take a look at the power graph after our fights :p
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/jsschwa/NC%20XI/Civ4ScreenShot0033-1.jpg
1400 AD: Had a CtD in 1430 so I have to restart from here. :wallbash:

1430 AD: Capture and keep Ulundi, start theatre. It had the SoZ (I had 14 WW in many cities...) and the GLH. Also has a settled GG

1440 AD: 0 attacks on the BT so I think Shaka is gassed.
Capture/keep uMgungdlovu (sp?) start theatre. It has the Spiral Minaret and the Great Library. Shaka = Wonder whore? wth?

1470 AD: Capture and keep Bulawayo. Start theatre.
Take peace with Shaka for Nongoma.

1480 AD: Finish PP, start RP. Shaka vassals to Ragnar (no surprises, this means I can go after Pacal next)
Stopped here after yet another CtD
Tech and Demo is so abysmal I'm not even adding it :lol:
I'm 99.5% sure I have this one won though.

Emp/Epic

Had to get dinner there...back to this! To 1460

640 AD - HR + religion + gift resource = friendly ragnar. If I keep my power rating with shaka, I'm immune to war (nobody has anything on their hands)!
700 Pacal gets the AP - I was kind of hoping it would be built on the other continent so I wouldn't have to deal with it. On the plus side, I already have tons of the religious buildings in place! Also, it does mean that if I wipe my continent clean I can shoot for AP diplo - cool.
730 As anticipated the courthouse completion + currency has shot me up to 50% science, 15 gpt, 135 BPT. I'm definitely running CE here so its all up from here. It's not great BPT but with careful tech choices/trade whoring with friendly AIs it will suffice, plus I'm far from stopping here anyway ;).

I also start to backfill cities.
760 I actually manage to found taoism. Time to whore philo around a bit!
900 At some point shaka vassaled to ragnar, which means my first target once I get the military power is buddhist founder Pacal. It won't even drop ragnar out of friendly ^_^.
990 I get CS and revolt to bureaucracy
1050 I beat my neighbors to paper and start on sankore. Yay. Pacal is 6 turns from gunpowder :(. Nay. 15 turns on education (just started it) and beelining lib.
1150 Univ of sankore completed :). I'm at 300 BPT now.
1180 I beat pacal to education by 3 turns. Lib race may just be a bit tight.
1210 Pacal completes his shrine :p.
1230 How is pacal researching so fast? He only has 5 turns on liberalism, much faster than me event at 328 bpt! Ah, but since I had a head start...I'm going to win by a turn ;).
1255 I meet hammy. The other continent is behind, somehow.
1260 I win liberalism (by 3 turns actually, apparently pacal was going with deficit spending). I take nationalism, mostly because nobody has it so I can trade it. No marble for taj :(. I'm pretty big though so I might try for it anyway.

I gift hammy 50 gold and trade him education for backfill :p. I also trade lib to Pacal for theology (haha pacal, you give me tech) and to ragnar for guilds. Hammy gives me his map in the deal too...
1285 Shaka renounces protection of ragnar. Oh joy. I need to spam out some military then to protect myself.
1295 He vassaled to ragnar again :rolleyes:
1355 Meet izzy - hindu like hammy. Only ottomans are left. Izzy is way behind.
1385 I meet mehmed - he's teched as if he were isolated thanks to him being the only jewish leader. It's actually pretty tempting to hit him ASAP but I want Pacal's shrine and Ragnar is a bit dangerous to border...it's gonna be a brawl on my continent :p.
1390 He captures a spanish city...I have no idea how. Many his swordsmen watch anime and can cut bullets in half.
1395 I grab democracy. Shaka breaks free again. I check for copper around the world. Pacal has only one :(. I revolt to emancipation/free market (HR I stay in for ragnar).
1420 Shaka declares on me instantly (no WHEOOHRN).
1425 AP stops the war :p.
1460 I'll cut this here. I don't think screen shots are necessary - I only backfilled a couple cities and teched. I have a massive tech lead on all but pacal/ragnar, and am currently just spamming some rifles to deal with shaka (he also has rifles thanks to the vikings, but I can grossly outproduce him and will do so soon). I'm getting 33 gpt and 684 BPT at 70% science and emancipation should push some more towns my way soon. If shaka doesn't vassal again he and pacal will be easy pickings- then and only then will I leave HR for US - it will just be a spam war against ragnar for the continent. The other continent is backwards/weak so my continent is FTW

Hi

Noble, marathon, around 1440 AD.

I moved 1 ne to get cows in cap's bfc. I started with a scout first to try and go on a goody hut binge. Good news 6 goody huts grabbed. Bad news 5 of them maps :( and the other one 73 gold.

The map has tons of elbow room but 3 very annoying neighbors. My tech is kinda like AH, AG, BW, masonry wheel, pottery. I settle my first few cities southwards to try and cut off the AI's. And then backfill in north later. I chop GW so I wont have to worry bout barbies coming at me from the north while I settle south.

I also manage to get 'mid's done. No bronze and with TWO AI's who have spearman uu's horseys aint gonna cut it so I tech IW so I can make swords and axes.

Things seem to be going ok. I am settling some nice cities. IW gets teched and then I start making units. Now one of my theorys of this game is a dead shaka is a good shaka so he at top of list. Plus I get lucky break as I am getting ready to attack he DoW's on Pac. So I am thinking coolies while his stacks are attacking Pac i dont have to worry too much for counter attack. That war goes go pretty much without a hitch. I kill off shaka take his best cities and get two GG's out of deal.

At this point I am just building up what I have. tech slider is pretyy low at this point but thanks to mids and free rep my beakers are still pretty good.

I settle some cities to north. manage to get HG, Notre Dame, GL. and Uni of sank built. I also manage to found Confu and Tao. But since both rags and pac are buddhist I wait till buddhism gets in my cities and convert to that.

I actually do pretty nice with gp's. My first gp was a spy so he got settled in moscow but after that 4 great scientists in a row. First one makes an academy in moscow, next one bulbs philosophy, next one bulbs paper, next one bulbs edu down to one turn so now I am thinking I am sitting pretty for lib race :).

Then halfway to lib rags DoW's on me :(. he takes one of my cities in first attack grrr. I have a decent sod stationed in last city I took from Shaka. I kept it there since it was on border near both pac and rags plus it was under BIGTIME culture pressure from pac's cap. I send it after rags nearest city whch has a good size garrison figuring if I kill it then war would be in my favor. BIG mistake. I had upgraded MOST of the stack to maces but NOT all and maces were ONLY upgrades I made my spears were still spears not pikes. So FIRST cats suicide on my stack. Then TONS of knights start attacking my weakend maces some die but a few win or retreat both of which are MURDER on my cats and trebs. I have to pull back and regroup. Meanwhile rags takes TWO more of my outskirts cities grrr. Not only was that failed attack pianful unit wise but it was SOOO ugly that THAt all by itself was enough for WW to start being a problem. My bigger cities are ALREADY starting to get unhappy faces. whats even worse is the cities he took were all in old zulu territory. After those 3 cities go down he starts attack two diff cities at once. And I am not 100% but it doesnt seem like even AFTER a civ is TOTALLY destroyed all the culture they placed on tthe tiles where they were stays behind. So even though shaka is dead and the battales on those two cities are in MY territory since some of shaka's culture still around it adds to ww. So even though after I lose those three cities I am now holding steady not losing any more and killing off invading stacks the ww is piling up which is slowing down making units.

But I finally get lib done and take gunpowder for free tech so i can make muskets to help counter rag's zerks.

Around this time another gp pops but instead of another GS it an GE. So after lib all done and gunpowder picked I tech towards nat. while all this is going on I am SLOWLY rebuilding army. I rebuild my stack enough to go back on attack and take one of rags cities. That good news. Badnews is rem how I said one reason for basing stack in city where it was cuz of culture pressure? well as soon as stack leaves to go take rag's city the city under pressure revolts grrrr.

So now it even slower to build up since a BIG chunk of units go to that city to keep it from flipping. By this time I am alos upping espionage slider on rags and building spies since LOTS of his cities have castles AND he built chicken pizza so I DONT wanna waste time trying to drop def with seige.

So next few turns are big loooong slog of me frantically building and whipping units to defend my cities from rags attacks and pacs culture and to reinforce my attack stack so it can get more cities. It takes awhile but I FINALLY build enough units to go on offense again and take two more cities. So war at this point is we each have taken 3 cities from each other. Only diff is rags took 3 lil border cities and I took 3 of his CORE cities including his cap :). By this time Nat is done. I use GE to rush Taj to start a GA. I KNOW most ppl hate GA's in wartime BUT only thing worse than a GA in middle of war is Anarchy in middle of war so as soon as Ga starts I switch to Police state and mercantilism. I dont go vas cuz my cap has a settled gg so I didnt want it to lose production on building units. I didnt go theo because those cities NOT building units are building theaters or temples ASAP to counter what ww police state isnt so I stuck with OR. Now with a GA fueling production rags is toast :). My first big stack is staying in Rag's old cap to make sure I keep it. It has GLH, Collossus, MoM and Chicken Pizza and TWO settled GG's so I dont wanna give it back. But I quickly get another stack going that takes another of rags cities PLUS retakes the 3 cities I lost at beginning. Rags is at point now where he ready to cap but he aint gonna be that lucky. He ticked me off so I am killing him to teach him a lesson, its for his own good so in way i am being nice and doing him a favor :).

Oh other things going. After Nat I teched optics and built caravals and won circumcised the globe race and now I am tech Mil Trad for Curriassors. So I have now met the other ai's on other continent.

Izzy built AP but she is christian and Mehmed and Ham are hindu so it wont be that big a deal i am hoping.

One wierd thing is Ham is able to open borders with me which I ASSUME means he have astronomy already BUT if he does he never made one single caraval since I never saw him until my ships reached his lands it just seems strange that he wouldnt build any ships and I dont think open borders would be an option unless he had astronmy and I dont think you can get to astronmy without teching optics frist. :/.

Anways thats it at this point. After rags is dead pac is next. I'm gonna feel nad about pac since he HAS been friendly most of game and even gave me drama and Theology free when i asked for em BUT he also refused to help me against Rags so i think it just gonna be best if I have whole continent to myself hehe :).

After that I guess I will try for conquest win. Mainly just cuz I dont wanna waste all thes sttled GG's. I settled one in moscow and two in antoher city. One of Shakas cities I captured had a gg settled so I settled another there. Then I got an event which put a gg in another city PLUS rags had two settled gg's in his cap. so right now I have THREE cities with 2 settled gg's and two others with one gg settled there and with imperialistic trait at least one more by time I get done with rags and pac isnt unrealisitic so that would mean FOUR cities all with equivalent of west point and it would be a shame to waste em :).

Kaytie

PS at rolo or bleys

I noticed in one of the spot reports someone did screenie of tech screen and it had list of will trade and wont trade AND something listed in cant trade. I always thought things only showed up on cant trade list if tech brokering is turned off. So does that mean it is turned off for this game?

@TMIT:
LOL you rush on a map that is just MADE for the peaceful REX. Love it! I waited until Cuirassiers to attack Shaka (MT off lib.) My war set will be posted within a little while :D

Heh - I'm playing along but cheating a bit because I'm, frankly, not that good. But I'm learning a HECK of a lot from shadowing this game. My spoiler tag is probably not appropriate here because i realize I AM cheating but I'm going to post it anyway.

I, uh... tried an earliesh rush. With less sucess. And ended up in a war with Shaka, Pacal and Rags. OK, bad plan - I made it through it sort of - I played it out that much, but I was SO FAR behind even using SE (which again I'm learning a lot about) my own continent much less the other that I rerolled because Shaka was also DoW on me every 10 turns and I just couldn't get the advantage.

Re-roll2 - Used Schwartz' excellent REX plan which I'm bad at because I tend to, even with creative, settle the filler cities first instead of the blocks. Given the reload I wonder why I'm so scared of my economy. In any evernt it was reload/play 2 and while it went better it wasn't for long, naturally.

I've not re-rolled 3 yet. Here's what I found in 2:

* I'm almost convinced that Noble is actually more of a handicaped level than the others. Maybe I should play Prince. They don't tech fast enough for you to take advantage of an alternate path (they either want to hang onto them and not trade or they just haven't gotten there yet)

* I did a lot better in trading, diplomacy than I though but referencing the earlier point, not as well as I'd hoped. SE worked and worked well - maybe I should have just followed the tech path of everyone else and punked 'em instead of waiting until they were ready to trade.

* Power level and whatnot was good for a good long time but see... I had tons of units and mixed units. They were just not appropriate for what everyone else teched (see point above) so after a while I was the backwards hick from Podunk.

* What made that worse was that Shaka vassallized Pacal and, well, everyone LOVED shaka... This was pretty much when I quit.

I'm sort of sad no one plays these as noble so I can learn - Schwartz was great for a while but then I outstripped him and the AI in techs and following along to see what happens sort of fell apart. Should I just ignore the fact that I lose on Noble more often than not and play Prince?

My last save is from this morning, I did most of this since but I didn't save, should have but didn't think of it.

I didn't build a lot of wonders (just GL and Parth) I just didn't ... I dunno! Maybe researching the tech path less traveled is a bad plan on Noble.

@schtick:
You make a lot of fair points. At noble, you can do more self-teching as opposed to trading. If you're watching my game you see how much I shuffle techs around to keep up after the opening REX. At Noble, you can usually outpace the AI the whole way with a good opening and solid economic play. The way to take advantage is to war when you're ahead (at any level, it's just easier to have the HUGE advantage at lower ones). You don't necessarily need to trade, if you get a tech advantage and are moving along faster than the AIs, just hold on to what you have, because trading is going to help them more than you.
I'll take a peek at the save there tomorrow and offer some advice if I can.

I noticed in one of the spot reports someone did screenie of tech screen and it had list of will trade and wont trade AND something listed in cant trade. I always thought things only showed up on cant trade list if tech brokering is turned off. So does that mean it is turned off for this game?
Its not on, there is nothing extra turned on at all in these (although you can choose Custom Scenario and turn those types of options on if you wish)

You get a "Cant trade" if you traded for a tech that opened another tech. For example, you trade with one AI for Hunting, then Archery will show up in the "Cant Trade" column for the rest of that turn. Next turn, those Cant Trade's move to either the "Will" or "Wont" column.

@ Schwartz:

You can take a look at my game. I hardly tech-traded at all since I have been at war up to this point. More info in the spoiler:

At 610 AD I'm the only one left on my continent. It's probably going to be several hundred years before I make contact with the other continent, so the next round should have a lot of info. on playing in isolation. I'll try to make my next report fairly thorough for the benefit of providing "rebuilding economy/teching in isolation" experience.

I'll take a peek at the save there tomorrow and offer some advice if I can.

While it might be nice (though likely embarassing) and I'd welcome it I'm not sure that you need to spend your time doing so. I do appreciate the offer though.

I'll put the rest in spoilers becuase I'm not sure what it gives away to others.

Basically with your post you confirmed what I sort of suspected, and thanks. Your REX plan was and probably still remains excellent and actually did help me a lot. I either sprawl too much or not enough and I think I sort of got a sense for it (and how to economically manage it) this game. So that was great.


I think my mistake at this level, given my city placement is really that I approached it from a "keeping it up with the Jones' when I should have treated it as "Get off my lawn!" to use some suburban metaphors.

I DO like the tech path I (ok, you) chose I just think maybe I would have fared better at this point by alternating learning trading techs and military ones that no one would trade. I think if I'd done that I would have had maybe tech parity but also closer military parity (or at least better military foils) as well and some few trading morsels not to mention some useful SE wonders.

Maybe Noble's just a zigzag.

As for the warring to take advatage - it almost seemed to make sense (or maybe I was just a chicken after the first bad play or maybe I just need to go kill rolo) to simply tech out and wait out the Holkan/Impi usefulness. Granted that would put me in Berserker range but if I had XBows I could mitigate a lot of that, no?

Maybe the plan should have been to beeline (and by beeline at Noble I man zigzag with a focus) machinery for the mix of XBows/Axes to mitigate the Holkan/Impi/and later, with his distance, Berserkers. as well as get some coastal cities building some triremes for the probably necessary coastal defense from our friend Rags? But also try to pick up some out of the way techs for trading/wonders/stuff and backfilling.

Maybe?

Thanks for the template to follow and the follow up info!

Well, since I normally play Noble and stumbled upon this topic I figured I'd give it a try :D

Game Options:
Speed: Epic
Difficulty: Noble
Settings: Choose Religions
DLL: Official 3.17 for first 60 turns; potential update for the unofficial patch since (might as well get some testing done :p)
Mods (All CustomAssets): BUG 3 (SVN revision 1116) with some personal tweaks, Event Signs 1.0 (landmark version for non-spoilers), Promotion-based unit naming (unreleased; more testing)

Note: I am playing the map as it appears when I load it; any tiles I can't actually see are considered spoilers and won't be factored into my decisions.

Report for 4000 BC - 1425 BC:
Capital: My scout started 2S 1W of the settler meaning the only resource I could see was the corn. Took him further south, revealing a cow and a hut which popped 55 gold. Since I wanted to get the cow in the radius and settle on the river, I moved the settler 1 S. Settling reveals some pigs too meaning major food in Moscow.

Capital Builds: Warrior until 2 pop, then switch to worker, finish warrior. following that: scout & 2 warriors until size 5 then settler, warrior, settler, granary (whipped), settler, settler, barracks, worker, settler, archer. Either 2 or 3 of the settlers were helped by a forest chop.

Moscow at first border pop:

http://www.isarapix.org/pix67/1218690027.jpg


Tech: First went for Agr & AH because of my resources. Next went with Wheel to help hook up resources, but given the cows were on the river that wasn't the smartest move. Bronze next then Pottery mainly for granaries, Masonry since there's some stone around, Writing for libraries (although I still haven't built any). Following that, picked up Fishing & Sailing for the trade route ability since all but one of my cities are on rivers. Also hoping that Pacal's religion will spread to me. In-progress research is Iron Working for clearing jungles and hopefully decent units since there's no copper nearby. A

Exploration/Rivals: Since my scout was already south, he kept going. Quickly met Shaka then bumped into Ragnar's scout and Pacal's border. He explored most of the South during my set and has recently gone back to reveal anything more that he can. My second scout explored the North.

Shaka went back and forth between Annoyed & Cautious with me, others are also cautious. Pacal founded the first world religion (Islam) and it's spread to Shaka already so they've got a mini-lovefest going on. 2 other religions (Christianity early, Confucianism recently) have been founded "in a distant land" and I'm guessing both are on the other continent(s) as I haven't seen any evidence of them yet. Pacal might have done Confucianism though; I can't quite see Mutal.

Expansion: Waiting for Moscow to hit size 5 started me off a little slowly but I went nuts after that and have 6 cities at the end of the set. The turn 100 history lesson puts me first with Pacal (he must have a huge capital and/or went expanding to the South) and Shaka right behind.

http://www.isarapix.org/pix86/1218691475.jpg

First city was put in the South near Shaka to grab Banana & Dyes and block him off since he had already founded his second city to his East. Next city grabbed the stone and rice to Moscow's SE and then 2 more cities went to block off Pacal. First can get 2 dyes and bananas if it can fight off Mutal's culture; second grabs the gems and cows along the East coast. I thought of settling that one 3 further South to get the rice, but that would also be in cultural danger & would be completely surrounded by Jungle. I also have other sources of rice. Final city of the set went along the West coast to grab the cows & wheat SW of Moscow. I preferred getting those in the BFC over getting the fish. After cultural expansion everyone else will be completely blocked from the North unless I open borders.

Cultural summary:

http://www.isarapix.org/pix38/1218692527.jpg


City Layout with resource flags (huge)

http://www.isarapix.org/pix99/1218692576.jpg

WONDERS: Pacal built Stonehenge in 2150 BC and Oracle went BIDL at 2025 BC. I normally get plagued by Wonder Addiction and I've resisted temptation so far while fueling the expansion. Stone'll be hooked up soon so that will test my resolve; it's very late to try the GW and pretty late to start the Mids even on Noble, but I might give one of them a go anyhow.


Overall Strategy: Well the first-round REXing is done so now my three priorities are military to get the power up (see power graph below) and fend off barbs, workers to get the land developed, and possibly whipping some libraries to get the research going again. Speaking of research, I'll probably head toward Math en route to Calendar for resources and CoL for courthouses. Huts got me up to around 400 gold which funded research @ 100% until about the 5th city and I'm now at 70% losing 10gpt on a treasury of 160. Next turnset I'll probably drop the slider a bit more, especially if I can get some libraries running. All these food resources seem to be begging for a Specialist Economy which is something I'm not good at, so this could be an interesting game.
http://www.isarapix.org/pix54/1218692923.jpg


BUG Log:

Logging by BUG Mod 3.0 (BtS 3.13-3.17)
------------------------------------------------
[b]Turn 0/750 (4000 BC) [12-Aug-2008 23:04:25]
Tribal village results: a little gold

Turn 1/750 (3975 BC) [12-Aug-2008 23:10:47]
Moscow founded
Moscow begins: Warrior (22 turns)
Research begun: Agriculture (12 Turns)
Research begun: Animal Husbandry (12 Turns)

Turn 4/750 (3900 BC) [12-Aug-2008 23:31:20]

After End Turn:
Moscow's borders expand

Turn 5/750 (3875 BC) [12-Aug-2008 23:31:39]
Contact made: Zulu Empire

Turn 10/750 (3750 BC) [12-Aug-2008 23:35:34]
Contact made: Viking Empire

Turn 11/750 (3725 BC) [12-Aug-2008 23:36:29]
Contact made: Maya Empire

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Agriculture
Moscow grows to size 2

Turn 12/750 (3700 BC) [12-Aug-2008 23:36:52]
Moscow begins: Worker (18 turns)

Other Player Actions:
Islam founded in a distant land
While defending in the wild, Scout (1.00/1) defeats Barbarian Lion (Prob Victory: 79.5%)

Other Player Actions:
State Religion Change: Pacal II (Maya) from 'no State Religion' to 'Islam'

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Shaka (Zululand) towards Pacal II (Maya), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Other Player Actions:
While defending in the wild, Scout (1.00/1) defeats Barbarian Bear (Prob Victory: 50.0%)

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Shaka (Zululand) towards Pacal II (Maya), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Other Player Actions:
Christianity founded in a distant land

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Shaka (Zululand) towards Pacal II (Maya), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 24/750 (3400 BC) [12-Aug-2008 23:44:27]

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Animal Husbandry

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Shaka (Zululand) towards Catherine (Russia), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 25/750 (3375 BC) [12-Aug-2008 23:44:42]
Research begun: The Wheel (10 Turns)

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Shaka (Zululand) towards Catherine (Russia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Other Player Actions:
Civics Change: Shaka(Zululand) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'

Turn 29/750 (3275 BC) [12-Aug-2008 23:45:42]

After End Turn:
Moscow finishes: Worker

Turn 33/750 (3175 BC) [12-Aug-2008 23:47:36]

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: The Wheel

Turn 34/750 (3150 BC) [12-Aug-2008 23:47:51]
Research begun: Bronze Working (17 Turns)

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Shaka (Zululand) towards Pacal II (Maya), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 36/750 (3100 BC) [12-Aug-2008 23:57:28]
A Pasture was built near Moscow

Turn 37/750 (3075 BC) [12-Aug-2008 23:57:44]

After End Turn:
Moscow finishes: Warrior

Turn 38/750 (3050 BC) [12-Aug-2008 23:58:13]
Moscow begins: Scout (6 turns)

After End Turn:
Moscow's borders expand

Turn 40/750 (3000 BC) [12-Aug-2008 23:58:54]

After End Turn:
Moscow grows to size 3

Turn 42/750 (2950 BC) [12-Aug-2008 23:59:26]

After End Turn:
Moscow finishes: Scout

Turn 43/750 (2925 BC) [12-Aug-2008 23:59:34]
Moscow begins: Warrior (6 turns)
A Pasture was built near Moscow

Turn 44/750 (2900 BC) [13-Aug-2008 00:01:23]
Tribal village results: lots of gold

Turn 46/750 (2850 BC) [13-Aug-2008 00:02:08]

After End Turn:
Moscow grows to size 4

Turn 47/750 (2825 BC) [13-Aug-2008 00:02:37]

After End Turn:
Moscow finishes: Warrior

Turn 48/750 (2800 BC) [13-Aug-2008 00:03:45]
Moscow begins: Warrior (4 turns)

Turn 49/750 (2775 BC) [13-Aug-2008 00:04:41]
Tribal village results: lots of gold

Turn 50/750 (2750 BC) [13-Aug-2008 00:05:02]

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Bronze Working
Moscow finishes: Warrior

Other Player Actions:
Civics Change: Pacal II(Maya) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'

Turn 51/750 (2725 BC) [13-Aug-2008 00:05:24]
Research begun: Pottery (154 Turns)
Moscow begins: Warrior (23 turns)

Other Player Actions:
Civics Change: Catherine(Russia) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'

Turn 53/750 (2675 BC) [13-Aug-2008 00:07:25]
Tribal village results: map

Other Player Actions:
While defending in the wild, Warrior (1.44/2) defeats Barbarian Panther (Prob Victory: 99.1%)

Turn 54/750 (2650 BC) [13-Aug-2008 00:08:13]

After End Turn:
Moscow grows to size 5

Turn 55/750 (2625 BC) [13-Aug-2008 00:08:47]
Moscow begins: Settler (9 turns)

Turn 56/750 (2600 BC) [13-Aug-2008 00:09:38]
A Farm was built near Moscow

Turn 57/750 (2575 BC) [13-Aug-2008 00:10:10]
Tribal village results: lots of gold

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Shaka (Zululand) towards Catherine (Russia), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

Other Player Actions:
While defending in the wild near uMgungundlovu, Warrior (1.74/2) defeats Barbarian Panther (Prob Victory: 99.5%)
While defending in the wild, Warrior (1.70/2) defeats Barbarian Lion (Prob Victory: 96.7%)
Attitude Change: Shaka (Zululand) towards Catherine (Russia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Logging by BUG Mod 3.0 (BtS 3.13-3.17)
------------------------------------------------
[b]Turn 61/750 (2475 BC) [13-Aug-2008 23:15:35]

Turn 62/750 (2450 BC) [13-Aug-2008 23:19:35]

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Pottery
Moscow finishes: Settler

Other Player Actions:
While defending in the wild near uMgungundlovu, Warrior (1.44/2) defeats Barbarian Lion (Prob Victory: 99.1%)
Civics Change: Ragnar(Vikings) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'

Turn 63/750 (2425 BC) [13-Aug-2008 23:20:24]
Research begun: Masonry (12 Turns)

After End Turn:
Moscow finishes: Warrior

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Shaka (Zululand) towards Pacal II (Maya), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 64/750 (2400 BC) [13-Aug-2008 23:25:06]
Moscow begins: Granary (12 turns)
Moscow begins: Settler (8 turns)

Other Player Actions:
While defending in the wild, Warrior (1.90/2) defeats Barbarian Panther (Prob Victory: 96.1%)

Turn 68/750 (2300 BC) [13-Aug-2008 23:30:08]
St. Petersburg founded
St. Petersburg begins: Worker (30 turns)

After End Turn:
Moscow finishes: Settler

Other Player Actions:
State Religion Change: Shaka (Zululand) from 'no State Religion' to 'Islam'

Turn 69/750 (2275 BC) [13-Aug-2008 23:31:04]
Moscow begins: Granary (12 turns)

Turn 72/750 (2200 BC) [13-Aug-2008 23:33:32]

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Moscow
Moscow grows to size 4
Moscow finishes: Granary

Turn 73/750 (2175 BC) [13-Aug-2008 23:46:52]
Moscow begins: Barracks (11 turns)
Novgorod founded
Novgorod begins: Warrior (11 turns)

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Masonry

Turn 74/750 (2150 BC) [13-Aug-2008 23:47:50]
Research begun: Archery (6 Turns)
A Mine was built near Moscow

Turn 75/750 (2125 BC) [13-Aug-2008 23:49:07]

After End Turn:
St. Petersburg's borders expand

Turn 76/750 (2100 BC) [13-Aug-2008 23:50:30]
Moscow begins: Settler (8 turns)

Turn 79/750 (2025 BC) [13-Aug-2008 23:51:42]

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Archery

Turn 80/750 (2000 BC) [13-Aug-2008 23:52:06]
Research begun: Writing (10 Turns)

After End Turn:
Novgorod's borders expand

Turn 81/750 (1975 BC) [13-Aug-2008 23:52:44]

After End Turn:
Moscow f