O.k. this will be my last tank for a while, but I wanted to complete the veriety of tanks by providing a Medium tank killer/assult gun.
All the Tank killers are very individualized, the SU100 looks nothing like the Stug III so I decided to do the Czech built panzer 38 "hetzer" tank killer; This allows an armour progression like this;

refining---> WWI tank
Mech warfare---->Light tank (t26)
Radio--->heavy tank (tiger I) and tank killer (hetzer)
nuclear power--->Intermediate armour (t55)
Synthetic fibres--->modern armour

this give a bit more of a break down of tank armies in the standard game, and alows tech advaces to make more of a difference in warefare.

Heres a big preview;

I can't remember all the advances around the mech warfare, but i guess the tank killer should come around between radio and mech warfare.
Historicaly the hetzer was a very sucessfull assault gun, first being used in 1943, it was judged to be beter than the STUG III and was so easy to build that at the end of the war it was the only german tank still in production despite heavy damage to the german war factories. Technicaly the Hetzer was a light/medium tank around 12 tons but its thick armour and (relative to its size) heavy main gun made it a good tank able to take on enemies much more expensive than them selves.

I should have it finished tomorow.
Here is the default flc if you want to see what it will look like in the game;

Good job Smoking mirror :goodjob:. This unit would be a perfict addition to the German Mini-Mod :).

Looks good. Can't wait for the finished unit. :)

once again, you have prevailed with yet another great unit, keep up the awsome work. :goodjob:

Great, ANOTHER unit that's not the T-34/85...

I have only four real 'progressions' of tanks in the game.

1) Tank - just called tank, it's the French light tank that someone released (and an outstanding one at that). Very similar to say a US M1917'A - lightly armored, small cannon, but not the ridiculous lumbering early tanks...these survived and saw limited but at times useful action in WW2.

2) Improved tank - this is your early WW2 years tank - M3 Lee or somesuch, better armor and cannon, but still outclassed quickly as armor and firepower continued to climb. I use the tank from Civ3 for it...

3) Main Battle Tank - this is your late WW2 and early Cold War years tank, anything from the Pershing or Konigstiger to say M48 or T-55. I use SM's T-55 for this one because he WON'T FRIGGING FINISH THE AWESOME LOOKING T-34/85!!!!

4) Modern Armor - this is your M1, Challenger, Leopard, blah blah blah...Civ3 Modern Armor straight away...

I've found that having the four is enough tank evolution. Additionally, numbers 1 and 3 do NOT require resources, and as such are about 20% less powerful. So, someone screwed without Oil can take their T-55's against the M1's. And they lose alot, but they can still challenge, as opposed to having to use something crappy like Cavalry...and they can upgrade if resources come their way, or overcome the lack of the resource with a productive empire to help make lots of T-55's, as quantity has a quality all it's own...

Venger

How the hell do you manage to make units so good? Keep up the good work cos the more he merrier :goodjob::goodjob::goodjob:

Oh well, I had planned to get this finished today but I spent all day playing the game of the month (have to play civ sometimes!).
I should have it finished tomorow. :)

I must agree that Civ III needs the tanks in the game to evolve.Besides, the way Firaxis did the game,no civ has unique looking tanks except Germany. :( I am sure it's not just me,but I feel a bit strange when Russia has M1A1's instead of T-85's.And where is Stain commanding Russia?:cry: :nuke: :cry:

P.S. tank killer looks awesome

Another German tank !!!!!! :D YES! :jump:
The Hetzer!!!!
Smoking Mirror #1 Tank Creator!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :yeah: :soldier:

Originally posted by Snobok
I must agree that Civ III needs the tanks in the game to evolve.Besides, the way Firaxis did the game,no civ has unique looking tanks except Germany. :( I am sure it's not just me,but I feel a bit strange when Russia has M1A1's instead of T-85's.And where is Stain commanding Russia?:cry: :nuke: :cry:

P.S. tank killer looks awesome


If someone would make civ3 style leaderhead animations of different era-specific leaders for each era that would be great- i.e. Stone Age: ?; Middle Ages: Ivan the Terrible, Industrial Ages: Tsar Alexander the Great, Modern Age: Lenin/Stalin....

ps. The Hetzer will be an interesting unit to implement... already thinking how to do it best- I am thinking 3-4 kinds of armored vehicles to profile themselves: Battle Tanks (Panzer, etc), Armored Vehicles (Tank Killers and Sturmgeschütz-like units), APCs (including Mech Infantry) and later evolving Support/Recon Vehicles (Humvee)...

GREAT, AWESOMEEEEEEEEEE...I'm fainting...

Originally posted by Smoking mirror
Oh well, I had planned to get this finished today but I spent all day playing the game of the month (have to play civ sometimes!).
I should have it finished tomorow. :)


I can understand ...
Everytime I decide to play a nice game new units come up on the forum! Or I have to work on a new unit... :)
And I just can't wait, so I add them and start again.
I lost count how many times I have re-started to play again :jump: ...

Also in development
I have been thinking of how I'm going to balance my combat system in my coming scenarios, the tank killer is part of that but there are also going to be developments in the way to use Infantry and city defences.

What is the enemy of the Hetzer? other tanks, naturaly- but the assault guns of WWII were found to be most usefull against a problematic development of modern warfare; the bunker/fortress.

In civ III fortress and city walls effect all units equaly, there is no real way to show a units specific strength or weakness to a particular type of deffence (something I want my new combat system to show (tanks and mech units have good ADM stats but low HPs and infantry has high HPs but poor ADM stats).

I'm going to reduce the overall rating of city walls (fortresses will remain unchanged, they were good against all enemys but better or worse depending on the garison) and include a new imobile unit- the city bunker defence. Here is a preview;

The main reason for developing this unit (and also the imobile Anti tank gun turret I'm also working on) is the sad fact that the A.I still can't use offensive Artillery correctly and is not so hot with Defencive artilery either. I want the A.I. to be able to offer a military cahlenge, so I'm reducing the power of Offensive artillery in my scenario (defenceive artillery wil still play a strong part) and I'm going to make "combat artillery" units- which use attack power rather than bombard. The Tank killer is just the Mobile version of this, I'm going to make a Anti tank infantry unit also, whose main aim in city assults will be Bunker complexes.

Also I want this unit for neutral or defencive civs (After losing the Oil resource a civ will have to go on to an "all out defence" strategy) to be able to survive by concentrating its resources on defence. The unit will be very expensive to build and will be imobile, so for an attacking civ it would be somewhat of a waste of resources- I can imagine moscow building several of these units during 1941 in an atempt to blunt the German attack, perhaps even a "Bunker/guards army" would be formed.

It will also mean that areas that have been in your control for a long time will have better city defence, not just based on City size; the polish and french cities would change hands much easer easier than berlin, london or moscow.

Here is the attack flic if you want to see it. It has no civ colours cos its obvious who it belongs to, its in thier city! Any way check it out, and give coments, tank killer will be finished by friday;

Thoes bunkers remind me of Pill boxes :).

Those bunkers look amazing. I can't wait to see your anti-tank turret, too.

Yeaah!

A real Tank killer for my 1939 MOD!!!!

What would civfanatics do without Smoking mirror??



Smoking mirror, the :king: of :tank: !!!!!


:goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob:

I'm amazed!!! These bunkers look superb!!!But I think they are a bit little in size, don't you think? :)

Hey, Smoking Mirror, did you ever finish this unit? I'm kind of looking forward to this one (well, actually, I look forward to most of your units :) ).

I may make the bunkers bigger, Iwanted to have two togerther to give the impression of being part of a deffesive line. They are not to scale with the infantry.

I am doing the T34/85 at the moment, only got the death to do, and after I'm going to do the tank killer; Thing is, I'm a bit stumped as to how to do the death for the Hetzer- usualy I have the turret fly off or the hatches open up with a bang, but the hetzer has no top hatch (the machine gun on top is remote operated, the hatch is right at the back almost underneath the tank) nad no turret; any ideas? how tould a tank killer be destroyed in real life?

Maybe have a hole in the side armor from a shell penetration, with smoke and flame billowing out of it.

Or, have the treads come off and the cannon either drop or blow off the front, again with flames and smoke.

are u planning to have the bunkers be like fortresses or more like imobile units?

Never mind...I was a foo not to read the whole post ;)

When can we expect the Hetzer?

I can't wait anymore! :goodjob:

I'm doing the T34/85 today and will start on the Hetzer again tomorrow, should be quite quick as the animations will be fairly simple.
I'm also about to work on a Heavy Bomber and a WWII Coal powered battleship.

Rather than opening a new thread for previewing my coal powered battleship, I'll use this one; kind of a smoking mirrors WWII units thread.

Heres a preview of the unit at Civ III size, Iv'e tried to make the unit quite generic, taking aspects from different eras to create a unit that could be used from the late 1800s right up to the middle of WWII, its about the same size as the firaxis battleship but would have lower ADM values to refect the later advances in engines guns and armour- it also alows the moden battle ship to have an improved Bombard value and for Submarines to have a better chance against early Battleships;

Beautiful!!!!! :goodjob: :love:

Problem with pillboxes and fortifications... they are an anachronism in modern warfare. With the invention of mobile warfare, pillboxes are nothing more than a speedbump. I mean hey, they sure LOOK cool. But are ineffective for the most part in modern war...

Venger
P.S. Modems suck.
P.S.2. Glad to hear the T-34/85 is almost done...

Yes the t34 is finished, going to start on the Tank killer next, then do the battleship, while doing the Merkava at the same time (the model is quite complicated).
I may do the Pillboxes/bunkers at a later date- in modern warfare specialized anti armour weapons can eliminate an enemy tank/fortification in one shot- the only real protection is manuverability, speed and ECM (electronic countermesures)- bunkers are therfore almost useless cos they cant run away or avoid incoming attacks and are difficult to protect with hi-tech electronic camoflage; but at one point in history, before the development of mechinfantry, bunkers were very usefull because they provided good defence from the primative artillery and tank shells available at the time (although chemical "HEAT" type rounds were being introduced throughout the war, they were not very effective because these kinds of round work poorly without smoothbore barrels).

The battleship looks good. Should fill in a nice gap in the naval units.

[dance]

for the death how about a projectile going in the front blowing the rear hatch and the gun off with flames coming out both ports.

how's the Hetzer coming along?

Smoking mirror...

Have to say something:

Everytime I see a post with a new unit of yours, I know that's another rocker!
Thank's for your great work! :goodjob:

PS: Can't wait the Hetzer!!!

I will get this done soon, I've been taking a break from animating for a while- All that cuttling and pasting realy gets me worn out, but I will be back on the ball soon. Get ready for;
The heavy bomber
The hetzer tank killer
The steam battleship (predreadnaught)
and eventualy the Merkava modern armour.

Wow,

That's quite a list! Looking forward to them all!

SM, I couldn't help noticing that the British Rifleman isn't on that list - does that mean it's shelved?

Cant wait....must...have...unit!:aargh3:

had to post in here since i love most of smoking mirrors work and
i think the stuka is an excellent modle the tiger1 rocks even though its small and thats why im posting cause i think the hetzer will match the tiger1 in-game so im hoping it will be done soon.

:aargh: WHAT EVER WITH THESE!!!!!!I must have the bunker!!
and I don't remember that tank! :confused: are these hidden somewhere? have they been finished?:cry:

The units were never finished unfortunately....Smoking Mirror vanished of the face of the earth and never finished them. Sad:cry:

Hey, his last post was in Dec. in the CIVIII-SBB forum

Quote....."Ohmygod!! This is the most exiting civ news in ages; Ive been off the internet for ages because we've been swithching over to broadband and there were "problems" but now I come back and see this great tool.
Ive got loads of half finished projects that I should be able to get finished using this.

Thanks loads for this. (and hurry please )"

it looks like he's planning a return somtime:)

Oh yes so he did...i completely forgot.:wallbash: d'oh d'oh d'oh! Okay so maybe he has posted...my apologies Smoking Mirror if you are reading this...but i know that when you have other things to do...like Smoking Mirrors job, making units takes a damn long time, and sometimes you cant do anything for months. I cant wait until my January exams re out of the way so i can continue on my units. I would love to see SMs units finished...especially the coal battleship, hell i could probably give it a try since Givgeneral is doing it with the super ironclad. Then again SM may finish them.

I didn't know to forget:) I looked in his profile:p

Clever, very clever. Maybe if we smile sweetly at SM he will finish them!