This first post is where you'll see the very LATEST in making Robert, as for the last post. Everything in between is how I got there ;)

nice start though! Im glad someone is making Scottish stuff! Rob was a great leader using excellent tactics in the battle of Stirling Bridge, outnumbered and defeating far superior English troops he kicked their buts....then ran after everyone that escaped and kicked theirs too....then skinned an English Lord that was wounded and sent a piece of his skin to every part of the country....yeah real nasty bugger, hmmm not the best ambassador for Scotland!

EDIT

EDIT

Here's my latest...

Looking good Sween32 :goodjob:

Thanks. I'm going to try to make him turn red when he gets mad, like every Scotsman :D

His angry look is very exagerated but I kinda want it that way, to show his wrath.

maybe you should change his "polite" face to the angry one and make his angry one "really angry"! lol

:lol:

I was just seeing what I could do, and I just made this evil looking one. I wanted to use it for my avatar but it didn't come out good at 65x65.

Sween32, this kicks the bejesus out of any previous posted leaderhead! Now someone HAS to make a kilted highlander unit!

Well, GhengisFarb deserves ALOT of credit. It's almost like I'm his employee in training for his world-famous leaderhead company. ;)

Middle Ages will have the actual stuff he wore (if I can get them).

Anybody have suggestions for Industrial and Modern?

I'm hoping that JimmyH will convert the Woad Raider from AoK for a UU but if somebody could make a kilted highlander, that would be even better!

How about a Trainspotting T-shirt or one with Mel Gibson on it for the modern age :)

Actually, I'm thinking about making a Mel Gibson Military advisor. Ancient: Mad Max when he joins the tribe in Beyond the Thunderdome. Middle Ages: Braveheart. Industrial: The Patriot. Modern: We Were Soldiers.

How do you like this hair compared to the old one?

Originally posted by sween32
[B]Actually, I'm thinking about making a Mel Gibson Military advisor. [B]

You should use the big red-haired guy and the wacky Irish one for advisors too. "The Lord says the Babylonians have an extra Iron we could use, but he's not sure if they'd trade it to ugly #$@* like you....."

The Almighty says the Russians think we're scientifically backwards. He says to fock them upside-down AND backwards, with a foot to their arse.

Yes I got the PM about the kilt. Why, you banned from Apoly or something?

Do you like the new hair or the old one? I think the new one looks better as far as accuracy but the first one fits the leaderheads that came with the game more.

I think I like the first one more, only the bit of bangs falling down should be a little more brown, or at least not as dark.

And what's this with the kilt? I'm a little curious :)

Yeah I think I'm going to keep the old one. I need to see if I can add texture to it.

Kilt? Now now. You know curiosity killed the cat.

love that leaderhead.Being scottish myself ive often thought about creating a kilted warrior...but cant be bothered as am far too busy with some MesoAmerican and spanish units....one day though!

I'm a big fan of your units, so I'd love nothing more then for you to make a kilted highlander! :love:

Maybe when this is done we could both work together to make a Scottish mod that just adds them as a civ, or a Scenario against England.

Just out of curiosity, what do you suggest for bonuses? Religious should be one of them, but I have no idea about the other.

I couldn't sleep so I did what I should have done from the beginning... modeled Robert the Bruce from Angus MacFadyen.

Here is Robert dressed up for the Industrial Age (without a background, that will come later)

Im just play testing a mod where I have added 5 civs:- Arabia,Spain,The Vikings,The Maya and...THe Scottish! I made them militaristic and religious as they are a pretty aggrerssive civ. I also made them V.Aggresive on the slider and the efeects have been great. THe scots keep attacking my border villages and destroying them....pretty realistic. I may start work on the kilted warrior soon as the spannish conquistador is nearing the realms of the impossible (as i have no 3d programs!). Trying to add a pistol isnt working as all the surrounding colours are brown or black and Im not gonna make him have a white gun.lol.

Im just gonna add some more robes and some tartan to a units called "tribal warrior". Ill post a preview here soon if you want.

lol.Wow angus..i mean Robert looks great! cant wait to get this leaderhead.

PS: Im all for helping you with a Scotland v England type scenario thing.

Heres something i knocked up in the last hour or so (only 3 frames!). I want to get it looking perfect so it may take a week or two.tell me what you think.

ps. there is a shield on his other arm.

Just noticed that the kilt on the blown up pic looks like he has a huge ass....its just looking like that cos i stretched the pic a bit weird.

heres a preview of the SW run.flc

Very cool! I'd ask for a shirt like in the pic, but I know how hard that is :rolleyes: so it's perfect! Most of them ran around completely naked anyways, so they could have a huge speed advantage against their armored enemies.

Speaking of advantage, what do you think the stats should be? I'd say the same as a Swordsman with 1 extra movement, but that's waaaaay too powerful. That would make the Mounted Warrior look like a little girl! If Persia isn't in your mod, how about 4/2/1?

:goodjob: You prove once again to be a master of cut'n'paste!

The leaderhead and the unit look great! What is the ETA on their releases?

Thanks,

Vivo

I don't know. I'm very confused right now. I don't know if I should work on my mod (which is fun to play, but not to do), or make some leaderheads (which is fun to do, but delays the mod).

Here's a preview of defaults for both Ancient and Industrial ages

Looking good!

Almost done with the default for the modern age... any ideas for a background image?

Here he is for Modern Times. Not sure if I want to keep that background. I'm looking for more of an indoor thing.

Originally posted by sween32
Almost done with the default for the modern age... any ideas for a background image?

Your gonna force my lazy but to start making FOUR different backgrounds for each set aren't you.........:cry:

hehehe... uh... I mean... nooooooo, why do you say that?....

alright... now for middle ages. this one is going to suck. do you have any armor yet, ghengis? or a chainmail texture for the mantle or hood?

EDIT: I found Chainmail on Kazaa but I don't know what it's for. It's still downloading.

Originally posted by sween32
...on Kazaa but I don't know what it's for. It's still downloading.

Ditto.

I'll show you, I just might not make anymore leaderheads......

uh... was that just a retirement statement? You can't stop! You're the best of the best!

I hope you're joking... please don't quit... :(

Here's what I've got for Middle Ages so far.

Alright, well here's the final 4. Time to work on the happy and mad poses.

How do they look?

Those leaderheads look fantastic sween!

Originally posted by sween32
Speaking of advantage, what do you think the stats should be? I'd say the same as a Swordsman with 1 extra movement, but that's waaaaay too powerful. That would make the Mounted Warrior look like a little girl! If Persia isn't in your mod, how about 4/2/1?

I gave them a plus 1 speed agaisnt the standard swordman and made them availible after Iron Working. This IS quite a large advantage but the deserve it..the Scots were able to kill many better equipt and trained English knights as the seemed to go "beserk" when fighting (simply go crazy and chop every1 up!). Thus I gave them +1 movemet to show this. It means that horsemen cant retreat from them which again shows "beserk" behaviour in pursuing enemies.

Very well then! :D I thought I was going to be happy when PtW came out so I could play as the Celts, but this is even better!

I'll be back later to post Bruces defeat pic! This one is going to be cool!

Originally posted by sween32
alright... now for middle ages. this one is going to suck. do you have any armor yet, ghengis? or a chainmail texture for the mantle or hood?

EDIT: I found Chainmail on Kazaa but I don't know what it's for. It's still downloading.

Two words............

Gothic

Armor

:D

hey sween, ive just finished the run FLC and heres an in-game multi-screen thingy:-

This is great! You know we still have a couple of months before PTW comes out, it'd be kinda funny if we create more alternate civs and their UU's than Firaxis releases with PTW.:D

This looks excellent. If you can get the Scottish Civ into the game without replacing any civs in the game already (or those coming in PTW), I'd really love it.

If any help is needed in Great Leaders, City names, etc., just ask me...I have a repository of Scottish history over here.

Next time...how's about the Dutch...and William the Silent?! :D

Originally posted by GhengisFarb
This is great! You know we still have a couple of months before PTW comes out, it'd be kinda funny if we create more alternate civs and their UU's than Firaxis releases with PTW.:D

Yeah, that's why I want to make King David. Israel really does deserve to be in it.

Originally posted by History Guy
Next time...how's about the Dutch...and William the Silent?! :D

I was thinking (repeat: thinking) about making a Longshanks leaderhead to compliment Robert the Bruce. Of course, I still want to make King David and Clinton but I've been having some problems making them. Clinton still isn't cooperating after the loss of the saved file. It looks more like when he was leaving office instead of entering.

Very nice sween :) just in the modern one his shoulders arnt quit wide enuff for the head :) nice work though :D

thomson: you are a genius!

History Guy: any help you could give us would be greatly appreciatted! Cities, great leaders, anything you can tell us! :D

Vdog: really? You should have seen them before. It looked like he had his hands in the air! The industrial ones shoulders are too wide, but I can't change that. It messes everything else up when I put his arms down. So I decided he's sitting down with his arms on the chairarms in that one ;)

I'm still working on better armor, but here he is with chainmail.

cheers sween! The latest leaderhead looks great with the chainmail. Keep up the good work! I must have spent 4 hours today just on the run FLC. At this pace I may have the unit done in a weeks time...i hope :)

Sweet! That unit looks so good, it's like butta'! I'm amazed at how detailed the kilt is! I'm going to have so much fun with this civ. Even more fun then Bolivia! ;)

Here we go...

Great Leaders:

Calgacus
Macbeth
Balliol
Wallace
Charles Stuart
Graham

Cities (25 of them)

Edinburgh
Aberdeen
Inverness
Dundee
Scone
Glasgow
Arbroath
St. Andews
Ayr
Turnberry
Kildrummy
Perth
Jedburgh
Roxburgh
Dunbar
Caerlaverock
Lochmaben
Glen Trool
Selkirk
Loudon
Falkirk
Stirling
Bannockburn
Dunfermline

Anything else I can do for you? More cities?

Wow! I think that's enough for now! Thanks alot!

I wonder if Wallace Memorial would make a good wonder... Probably not since it's in the Modern age pic...

Here's Robert after defeat.

Nah, I wouldn't make any Scottish Wonders, really. Just the Civ would be good enough, I think. Besides, the Wallace Memorial isn't much of a wonder.

OK. Let me know if I can do anything for you.

The defeated Robert looks pretty good, in a sick, warped sort of way.

Originally posted by History Guy
The defeated Robert looks pretty good, in a sick, warped sort of way.

He got beat up real bad. No open wounds, just his head slammed into the dirt repeadedly. That hurts more then you think!
:splat:

why bother making a "defeat" leaderhead....like the Scottish are even gonna be beaten! ha, The Romans had to build a wall to keep US out of thier Empire! lol.....grrrrr. :)

Originally posted by Sween32
I'm amazed at how detailed the kilt is!

Yeah, I have to draw each line individually. First I draw on the kilt shape and top in dark blue. Then comes the red lines, depending on the sway of the kilt.Next comes the yellow/green lines across the red.Finally comes the socks and laces.TAKES BLOODY AGES!!!But worth it in the end when I get the great responses form you guys at Civfanatics.

Posted by myself earlier
I gave them a plus 1 speed agaisnt the standard swordman and made them availible after Iron Working.

I have to change the stats....
They wouldnt be around back in the early stages of the ancient age (The Picts were around then...later came the scots - still same kinda civ i spose) so this unit should become availible after researching Monarchy (Ideally would be feudalism but this is too close to Chivalry - allowing creation of knights,who have better stats). I would give the clansman a Movement of 2/Attack of 4/Defend of 2. This compares to the Knight with Move 2/Attack 4/Defend 3. So a Clansman will have -1 Defend over Knights but +1 movement over the Persian Immortal (a pretty early unit!). I will need to playtest it to check that it doesnt make the unit too strong.

How about you make it an upgrade of the knight that does not recquire horses, like the Samurai. Since the Samurai is 4/4/2, make the Scottish Clansman a 5/3/2.

yeah...good idea sween :) Then it can have some success against Musketmen...like they did in history.This means they can fight against some knights and musketmen - similar to the age they were so strong in.Im off to get some sleep now (I really want to listen to the packers v eagles game though) but I have to get up for my Part-time job at 6am tommorow morning! aggh.

Very true. You gotta make them have a purpose. Longbowmen are meant to be used to counteract knights. They're usually very succestfull, too. I don't know why, they have the same attack and 2 less defence.

How's this for moods?

Hey, History Guy, would you be interested in writing a Civilopedia? If that's too much to ask, I understand.

Sounds OK to me!

Sween, I just have to say again how great your work is. This is so completely professional and awesome looking! I'm at a loss for words. "The best" comes to mind...

Originally posted by dannyevilcat
Sween, I just have to say again how great your work is. This is so completely professional and awesome looking! I'm at a loss for words. "The best" comes to mind...

Wow! Thanks! Ghengis deserves a whole !@#$ load of credit too.

I'm giving up on the hood for ancient times. I just can't control it thru the animation to move smoothly with his head. I think I'm going to go with this outfit for ancient, but I need a better background. Anybody seen a picture of a scottish hut or something similar?

EDIT: I screwed up, so the pic is attached to the next post

Sorry, here it is...

Originally posted by sween32


Wow! Thanks! Ghengis deserves a whole !@#$ load of credit too

Awesome job GhengisFarb! :goodjob:

I went looking for something like a scottish hut, but all I can find are castles and ruins, including one of Robert's own. Sorry :(

Hmmm... what would be good for ancient times...

The Ancient outfit looks great!

Hmmm...Hadrian's Wall in the backround, perhaps?

I'm going to have to mess around with the background picture so the color and stuff looks right, but you can get the idea: Hadrian's Wall.

Now, that looks pretty darn good, Sweeny. Bob the Bruce and Hadrian's Wall too. Great work!

Another ancient spot to try looking for: Skara Brae, the earliest Scottish settlement on earth.

Sween,

Just some positive feedback here. This Poser stuff is lightyears ahead of the earlier cut and paste plus scrible and airbrush leader head stuff.

This looks really cool and will add a lot to the game experience. I know you took offense at my earlier post that some of the cut and paste and airbrish stuff looked horrible, but this new work is so good and so much of an addition to the game that it clearly shows what you can do when you tackle the right tools for the job. Great work.

Thanks for making the effort.

(ps: chunk the old stuff - this looks better in your folders and is something you can really be proud of.)

Thank you for noticing, cracker. I'm glad that somebody who used to dislike my work took the time to compliment on something. That's pretty unique. Although you're probably right, I don't think I'm going to toss my other stuff. Even though they're static, I'd like to keep them there for modders who need them. They're still being downloaded daily, and that alright by me!

Thanks again! :D

Originally posted by Sween32
Longbowmen are meant to be used to counteract knights. They're usually very succestfull, too. I don't know why, they have the same attack and 2 less defence.

Well how about giving longbowmen Attack of 3 and defence of 3. This means a +1 attack to pikemen and -1 attack to knights. Would also be +1 attack and -1 defence compared to later musketmen while being -1 defence compared to France's Musketeer. After work today I might make up a sheet of all the ancient and medieval unit's stats (then put in my personal stats) including some new ones such as medieval infantry,the Scottish clansman and the halbedeir.

The Longbowman stats are perfect the way they are. They have a low defence like in real life, but are still able to take out knights and other units for some strange reason. If we make a scenario, we should make them the British UU and have bombard which is where their true stength is.

Here's the new Industrial age

May I ask, Sween, what programs you are using, and if they are free? I also must say that you are quite good at creating Leaderheads (This based on the previews I have seen), and if you wanted me to help you with anything, I would be honored.

These new pics are REALLY good. When can we expect the finished set?

All of the actual animated leaderhead's are done, they just have to be converted to flic. For that, I need to get Jasc Animation Shop. I was able to borrow some money from my father in Boston and it will be sent to him before he sends it to me. As far as I know, he still hasn't gotten it. So, until then, I'm going to work on the PCX's and start some previews of other leaders. Then, I'm going to have a poll for which one I should complete first.

Hi Sween32, I decided to check out Robert the Bruce after you mentioned in the woad raider thread that you and thomspon_2001 were working on a scottish civ.

I really am much more intelligent than this may seem, but all I can say atm is wow. :crazyeye:

This is very good work. I can't wait to add the Scots to my game. :)

Thompson_2001: I really like your unit too. It amazes me how much patience you guys have to do all this work. Whatever you do, don't give up!

[dance]

Thanks! But you ain't seen nothing yet.

Here's Mustafa Kemal Atatürk of Turkey. I still need to work on the hair before I go any further. He's very difficult to make. I have never seen anybody look so different in every single picture that exsists of him.

That picture makes me feel so small!

It gives me the undeniable impression he's leaning over and looking down at me.

Reminds me of a few lectures from the ol' school principal which I won't go into. :)

Good job.

Originally posted by kemal69
It gives me the undeniable impression he's leaning over and looking down at me.

Scary, huh? Now you know how it feels to be me all the time, the 5'3'' midget that I am. :rolleyes:

Here's the new Modern Times. The Scottish uniform one will become Industrial Age, I'm just looking for a better background for that one. Hopefully one with a Scottish ceremony with bagpipes.

My God Thats nice i like that background fine! when will u release the final download?

Yes, that one is much better. So, where are all your previews of Fidel? :)

I won't make Fidel until I find Guerilla clothes for Poser... unless somebody finds them first *hint hint to ever1 who wants fidel* ;)

For the picture in my avatar, I used Poser to make his face and add a beard, but I had to hand-make the hat and make the beard white in Photoshop.

I don't know when Robert will be released. Still waiting to recieve Jasc in the mail.

Here's the new Industrial age. That is the Ministry building. If anybody finds a background they see more-fit then let me know.

love the new flcs sween. The modern on industrial backgrounds are great! Ive just finished the SW attack animation and heres a preview:-

Looks VERY good! I could never put that much patience into anything. You are now my unit-creating hero :goodjob:

After finishing the Scottish UU, how would you feel about making a real historical Incan UU? After PtW comes out, you will be able to add 7 civs, so Ghengis and I are trying to make leaderheads for civs that deserve to be in the game that are not. With that, we also need UU's. Some are already made, like the Franks' Throwing Axeman, and the Ethiopian Sarwe.

Thanks for the great compliment Sween.
I may make an authentic looking Incan unit at a later date but it can get a bit tedious doing unit after unit. The SW attack FLC took a good few days as I only get a few hours to spend on it (working loads at the mo to get some money for university and am spending time with my Girlfriend b4 she takes a gap year in Malaysia :()
Ill keep plugging away at the unit though.Not much progress today as am VERY hungover (cant even remember half of last night!). Got great exam results yesterday so me and loadsa mates went out to some bars then home to a friend's house - I think!Im just about recovering now.lol

When will the leaderhead be finished Sween?

oops, just noticed you had said you were waiting for JASC above!

wait... you're just now taking driving lessons and you're already drinking... is this drinking LEGAL? and if it is, how old do you have to be to drink in scotland? how old do you have to be to drive? i hope you're not combining the two at once ;)

should have a scots country my people are MacKinnons we saved charles he gave us the recipe for Drambie

dont panic sween.In the UK you can drive legaly from the age of 17 (as long as you can pass) and you can drink from the age of 18. Im almost 19 and put off driving lessons for a while due to concentrating on getting the grades i need to go the Edinburgh University next year.
Oh and im a bad enough driver without alcohol in my system.lol

yeah, i didn't get my liscence until I was 18 (the age here is 16 1/2) so I could consintrate on highschool. the reason is i couldn't get a job to pay for gas because it would distract me even more then my ADHD was distracting me already. i had it pretty bad, and ritilin just put me to sleep, so i had to try and consintrate without any drugs. do you have any idea how much it sucks to try and consintrate on something but it's just not going to the brain? but that's alright. ADHD sufferers may suck at some things, but exceed far beyond the normal person in in their specialties ;)

well, now that you know the story of my life...

i was looking up some pictures of scotland and i noticed there's a castle named Sween. I didn't even know this! I just took my name from my favorite Boston Bruins player! do you know anything about that castle? After I saw that, I looked up my real name, Casco (originally Cosco, but you know how they mess up names when people immagrate), and I found a whole bunch of Spanish helmets... and I'm Italian...

Originally posted by sween32
Here's the new Modern Times. The Scottish uniform one will become Industrial Age, I'm just looking for a better background for that one. Hopefully one with a Scottish ceremony with bagpipes.

I still get a chuckle when I see him and think of Robert X, Scotlands answer to Malcom X.:lol:

I think this set is ready for final rendering.:D

Originally posted by GhengisFarb
I still get a chuckle when I see him and think of Robert X, Scotlands answer to Malcom X.:lol:
You know it!

I think this set is ready for final rendering.:D
Supposedly, Jasc is going to be ordered today. So, hopefully I'll have it by next week.

jasc should hurry the f*@K up and get to your house...it feels like years since you ordered it. lol :)

I checked out google for any Thomson castles or towers and got a great site! Supposedly im a holy man at this page

http://www.fortunecity.com/athena/exercise/2492/DUDDINGSTONKIRK/id18.htm
(my real name is John Thomson too!)

Quote from Thomsons Tower: "We're all Jock Tamson's Bairns". What the hell does that mean? :lol:

The history of Castle Sween (http://www.kilvicocharmaig.yk.net/hcastlesween.html)

It's kind of ironic that Robert the Bruce kicked out the MacSween clan for supporting the English. I am ashamed of my namesake. :(

These leaderheads look GREAT! There isn't any way I could bribe you into making a leaderhead for Justinian or Constantine, is there??

And you MUST include Glenfinnan (on the shores of Loch Shiel) as one of your cities, for the love of Highlander!

Err...don't ye worry nae, I ain't forgotten me dooties for writin' the Scottish Civilopedia bit. I'll be startin' dis afternoooon.

History MacGuy

Originally posted by History Guy
Err...don't ye worry nae, I ain't forgotten me dooties for writin' the Scottish Civilopedia bit. I'll be startin' dis afternoooon.

History MacGuy

Ai. You don't 'ave to nor the now. Take 'er time, fer Christ sake.

Originally posted by metalhead
These leaderheads look GREAT! There isn't any way I could bribe you into making a leaderhead for Justinian or Constantine, is there??

I'll put it on my list. But no guarentees it will be done.

Here is the diplomacy PCX bubbles just incase anybody wants to play as the Scots right now. Don't say I never did anything for ya.

Are you making the flics, are is you waiting for something?

I just downloaded Jasc, but the bastards sent the registration number to the billing email address instead of the person who is actually downloading (freaking idiots) so I have to wait for my father to get it tomorrow so he can email me it.

EDIT: Nevermind. You should be able to download Robert TONIGHT!

^_^ Great job so far, can't wait for the download! It's already the highest quality leader-head I've seen, and I can't wait to see it actually animated and in game! Ah well... Back to working in Liliuokalani for me. :cry:

Thanks Veera. But you don't have to wait another minute... excluding download time...

GO TO THE ROBERT THE BRUCE DOWNLOAD THREAD (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29852)

Downloaded, and from what I previewed in Animation Shop, they look great so far ;-) Haven't tried them in game yet, too late at night, but I'll try them out this weekend.

On a side note, Poser is a *lot* of fun to use! :-D I made a crude Liliuokalani that actually looked like her... And deleted it cause of some stupid mistake :mad: At this rate, it looks like I actually won't have to beg people to do it for me :goodjob:

great work Sween. Im downloading the leaderheads now!

Ive been real busy with my part time job at the moment so ill get back to work on the unit now.

I learnt this from my old English techer:- "We're all Jock Tamson's Bairns" simply means "we all come from the same ancestor so cant we all just get along as we're all the same!?"

Here's the Civilopedia bit. Hope it's not too long. Any comments or suggestions?! I'll start work on the entry for the Clansman when I have time.

Scots (Civilopedia):
--

The earliest evidence of Scottish civilization dates back to 3500 BC, in the Orkneys at Skara Brae, where a community of Stone Age farmers would make their homes for about a thousand years or more. Castle Rock, the site of Scotland’s capital, Edinburgh, was itself first inhabited at about 1000 BC, in the midst of the Bronze Age, making it one of the oldest continually inhabited cities in northern Europe today. At that point, what is now known as Scotland (then called Caledonia by Rome) was inhabited by a Celtic tribe known as the Picts, so named by the Romans for their custom of applying war paint before going into battle. When the Romans under Agricola invaded in 80 AD, this is precisely what they did, uniting under a chieftain known as Calgacus. Though Calgacus was defeated, the Romans were never able to occupy Scotland, and by 122 AD, the Romans themselves flung up Hadrian’s Wall just to keep out these fearsome warriors. By the late 4th Century AD, the Picts had joined up with a bunch from Ireland known as the Scots, and they soon together launched invasions of Roman Britannia, and these were invasions that Hadrian’s Wall itself could not rebuff. After the Romans left in the late 300s, the Scots and the Picts settled down to do some inter-tribal warring. This conflict was finally brought to a close when the High King of Dal Riata (Argyll), Kenneth MacAlpin, finally united Scotland (and gave the land it’s name) in 843 AD. Kenneth’s descendents kept up his empire-building attitude, only to be defeated in battle by the English King Athelstan at Brunanburgh during one of many Scottish invasions.

In 1286 AD, Scotland again entered the world’s stage after the accidental death of King Alexander III. Leaving no heir, the Scots came together to choose a new High King, but they seem to have had quite a tough time doing so, so much so that they called in the King of England, Edward I (known lovingly as ‘Longshanks’, before he became ‘Hammer of the Scots’), to settle the issue. Edward chose for them John Balliol, after Balliol informed Longshanks that he’d be forever in his service. Unfortunately for Scotland, Balliol had a short memory, allying with Edward’s enemies, and generally making a mess for England. Enraged, Edward, after conquering Wales, invaded Scotland, booting out Balliol, carrying off the Sacred Stone of Scone, and declaring himself master of the kingdom. A few Scots were a bit peeved by the idea, William Wallace and Robert Bruce being the most famous. After Wallace was defeated and executed, Bruce took over, being crowned King at Scone. In 1314, Robert Bruce destroyed an English army under Edward’s son at Bannockburn. Then, he truly unified Scotland as a whole. The next couple of centuries served as a period of unification and improvement of Scotland by its kings, despite some sticky points (such as the reigns of James I and the famous Mary, Queen of Scots). However, things changed in 1603 AD, when James VI of Scotland succeeded Elizabeth I of England, becoming James I of Great Britain, thus uniting England and Scotland. James moved his capital from Edinburgh to London, and started up the Stuart dynasty of kings, who were overthrown under Charles I in the English Civil Wars, in which Scotland played a very confused role indeed, changing from side to side on a periodic basis. After the Restoration of the Stuarts, and then their ultimately ousting by the Hannoverians, Scotland again played a major part in world history.

This happened in 1745, when the grandson of the last Stuart king, Charles Stuart (known better as Bonnie Prince Charlie), returned to Scotland in order to launch an invasion of England from the north and kick those Germans out forever. Despite initial successes, like at Prestonpans, the Jacobites, as Charlie’s followers were known, were forced to withdraw back into Scotland, mercilessly chased by the British army of the Duke of Cumberland, who finally caught up with them at Culloden in 1746. The slaughter there ended Scottish resistance for good, it seemed. Charles himself escaped to Skye Island, and then to France, never returning to Scotland. From that time on, Scotland played a major figure (though under British rule) in the Industrial Revolution, producing some of the great minds of the time: James Watt, James Maxwell, Alexander G. Bell, James Boswell (the biographer), the philosopher David Hume, and Adam Smith. It can be truly said that Scotland, through these men, shaped the Modern World. In 1997, Scotland finally got itself the freedom to convene it’s own parliament at Edinburgh.

Originally posted by History Guy
Here's the Civilopedia bit. Hope it's not too long. Any comments or suggestions?! I'll start work on the entry for the Clansman when I have time.

Eeeeexcelent :satan: I'll post it as a text file in Civilopedia format tonight (after I make sure it's short enough in the game) :goodjob:

In case you want a larger Scots leader and city list, feel free to make use of the ones below:

Edinburgh
Glasgow
Stirling
Perth
Dunfermline
St Andrews
Dundee
Aberdeen
Falkirk
Dunadd
Dumbarton
Dunkeld
Scone
Arbroath
Linlithgow
Hamilton
Lanark
Montrose
Berwick
Brechin
Nechtansmere
Forfar
Inchtuthill
Bannockburn
Kirkcaldy
Crail
Pittenweem
Anstruther
Inverkeithing
Buckhaven
Methil
Leven
Elie
Ayr
Inverary
Glencoe
Inverness
Wick
Paisley
New Lanark
Dornoch
Traprain Law
Whithorn
Melrose
Stranraer
Kelso
Roxburgh
Duns
Salton
Jedburgh
Peebles
Langholm
Dumfries
Selkirk
Dunbar
Blair Atholl
Ardgour
Culloden
Pitlochry
Oban
Elgin
Nairn
Glenfinnen
Helensburgh
Greenock
Clydebank
Motherwell
Airdrie
Coatbridge
Kilmarnock
Livingston
Campbelltown
Lorne
Lismore
Iona
Stornoway
Portree
Tarbert
Dunvegan
Kyle of Lochalsh
Bowmore
Skara Brae
Kirkwall
Lerwick

William Wallace
Kenneth MacAlpine
Marquess of Montrose
Black Douglas
Bonnie Prince Charlie
Malcolm Canmore
Brude
James IV
Andrew Moray
Patrick Gordon

Also, in case you guys want to use a Gaelic list, here is one below also:

Dun Eideann
Glaschu
Sruighlea
Peairt
Dun Pharlain
Cill Rimhinn
Dun Deagh
Obar Dheadhain
An Eaglais Bhreac
Dun Aodh
Dun Breatainn
Dun Chailleann
Baile Mhoreil
Obair Bhrothaig
Monadh Rois
Breichinn
Fhorfhar
Inchtuthill
Allt a' Bhonnaich
Hamilton
Lanairch Nuadh
Inbhir Air
Ceann Loch
Chille Chiarain
Gleann Comhan
Inbhir Nis
Inbhir Uige
Paislig
Traprain Law
Taigh Mhartainn
Maol Ros
Rosbrog
Deadard
Dun Phris
Dun Barra
Blar Athaill
Ardgour
Cuil Lodair
Baile Chloichridh
Eilginn
Inbhir Narann
Gleann Fhionghain
Bail Eilidh
Grianaig
Bruach Chluaidh
Tobar na Mathar
Ard Ruighe
Na Duin
Cille Mearnaig
Iona
Steornabhagh
Port Rìgh
Caol Loch Aillse
Togh Mor
Kirkwall
Liurabhaig
Dun Bheagain
Rinn Friu
Sron Reamhar


That list was very difficult to find, so a few towns have retained their English names. Hamilton, Lanark and Iona included.

I hope you will find these things of use.

BTW, I think the Scots civ characteristics should be Scientific & Militaristic/Industrious. The list of intellectual achievements that Scots are responsible for is almost endless and, in proportion to population, compares only with the Greeks.

Calgacus-- Thanks for the city list. It is better. As for the leader list, however, I don't like it as much as my own for several reasons. I'd stick with my own list, with the possible change of exchanging Balliol for MacAlpin. Bonnie Prince Charlie is better named as Charles Stuart. Thanks anyhow! Do you approve of my history?

History Guy, I tried out your civilopedia and it's far too long. You have to cut it down big time. It's has to be no more then 40 lines. Look at the original civilopedia entries to see how long a line can be. Good job btw!!!

OK, I edited it. Is this OK?

The earliest evidence of Scottish civilization dates back to 3500 BC, in the Orkneys. The site of Scotland’s capital, Edinburgh, was itself first inhabited at about 1000 BC, making it one of the oldest continually inhabited cities in northern Europe today. At that point, Scotland was inhabited by a tribe known as the Picts. When the Romans invaded in 80 AD, the Picts went into battle, uniting under Calgacus. Though he was defeated, the Romans were never able to occupy Scotland, and by 122 AD, the Romans themselves flung up Hadrian’s Wall just to keep out these fearsome warriors. By the late 4th Century AD, the Picts had joined up with a bunch from Ireland known as the Scots, and they soon together launched invasions of Roman Britannia. After the Romans left in the late 300s, the Scots and the Picts settled down to do some inter-tribal warring. This conflict was finally brought to a close when the High King of Dal Riata, Kenneth MacAlpin, finally united Scotland in 843 AD. Kenneth’s descendents kept up his empire-building attitude, only to be defeated in battle at Brunanburgh during a Scottish invasion.

In 1286 AD, Scotland again entered the world’s stage. The Scots came together to choose a new High King, but they seem to have had quite a tough time doing so, so much so that they called in the King of England, Edward I to settle the issue. Edward chose for them John Balliol (after Balliol informed Edward that he’d be forever in his service). Unfortunately for Scotland, Balliol had a short memory, allying with Edward’s enemies. Enraged, Edward, invaded Scotland, booting out Balliol, carrying off the Sacred Stone of Scone, and declaring himself master of the kingdom. A few Scots were a bit peeved by the idea, William Wallace and Robert Bruce being the most famous. After Wallace was defeated and executed, Bruce took over, being crowned King. In 1314, Robert Bruce destroyed an English army under Edward’s son. Then, he truly unified Scotland as a whole. The next couple of centuries served as a period of unification and improvement of Scotland by its kings. Things changed in 1603, when James VI of Scotland became James I of Great Britain, thus uniting England and Scotland. James moved his capital from Edinburgh to London, and started up the Stuart dynasty of kings. After the Restoration of the Stuarts, and then their ultimate ousting by the Hanoverians, Scotland again played a part in world history. This happened in 1745, when the grandson of the last Stuart king, Charles Stuart (known better as Bonnie Prince Charlie), returned to Scotland in order to launch an invasion of England and kick those Germans out. Despite initial successes, the Jacobites, as Charlie’s followers were known, were forced to retreat back to Scotland, and were finally defeated at Culloden. From that time on, Scotland played a major figure (under British rule) in the Industrial Revolution, producing some of the great minds of the time: James Watt, Alexander G. Bell, David Hume, and Adam Smith. In 1997, Scotland finally got itself the freedom to convene it’s own parliament at Edinburgh.

That's perfect. I'll post it as a text file on the download thread now. :goodjob:

Originally posted by History Guy
Calgacus-- Thanks for the city list. It is better. As for the leader list, however, I don't like it as much as my own for several reasons. I'd stick with my own list, with the possible change of exchanging Balliol for MacAlpin. Bonnie Prince Charlie is better named as Charles Stuart. Thanks anyhow! Do you approve of my history?

Thanks for asking. I don't think that the content has to be taken too seriously. From my own point of view, though, I would have prefered the history to contain more cultural information. I like the fact that you mentioned some of Scotland's achievements, but I don't like the fact that you connect this with the defeat off the Jacobites, as in :
"From that time on, Scotland played a major figure (though under British rule) in the Industrial Revolution, producing some of the great minds of the time: James Watt, James Maxwell, Alexander G. Bell, James Boswell (the biographer), the philosopher David Hume, and Adam Smith. It can be truly said that Scotland, through these men, shaped the Modern World"

Also, you go straight from the Wars of Indepedence to the Union of the Crowns, without mentioning the Scottish kingdom under the Stewarts. I would have said more about this and more about the Enlightenment.

On the leader list, both Malcolm Canmore and James IV were great kings. Greater than MacBeth certainly, although, thanks to Shakespeare, not as famous. You'll have to tell me who Graham is. I praise you for not including Mary QoS :goodjob: though.

These are my opinions.

It's great that you did the civpd entry and it's great that people are taking the Scots civ seriously. :goodjob:

Calgacus-- Ah, OK. Sorry if it sounded as though I'd implied that Scotland flourished because of British rule...that was not intentional. As for the Stuarts, I'd have liked to include a bit more about them (though I personally can't stand the lot of them after James VI, despite my almost 75% Scottish backround).

Graham is John Graham, the Scottish Duke who defeated a British force in the early 1700s in response to the Hanoverian ousting of the Stuarts. As for Mary, Queen of Scots, she was, after all, a Frog, and something of a fruit as well. She doesn't seem to have been one of the brightest lights about...she lost her head on occasion... :D

It was a pleasure to do the entry...





A Jacobite I am, lend an ear, lend an ear!! :D

I must say it will be nice to see my name in the civilopedia.

BTW, I've downloaded the head and integrated it into the game. I can now play successfully AS the Scots, but not AGAINST them...the evil civ3 crashes!
Any tips?

By the way...here is the Civiliopedia for the Scottish Clansman...

Back in the good old days of Scottish history, the most important Scottish families were known as clans. The clans were often large affairs, having their own towns, chieftains, pipers, and even their own armies. A member of the clan professed absolute loyalty to his clan, and so a clansman on the battlefield, fighting for the beliefs of his clan, was quite an effective soldier. Perhaps the best and most famous example of an army of highlander clansmen in battle was at the river gorge of Killiecrankie on July 27th, 1689, where the Viscount Dundee, the clan chieftain John Graham, led his 2000 troops (mostly his own clansmen) down the hillside and into 4000 British musketeers and dragoons, in response to the ousting of James II of England by William III. In the ten minutes of fighting, 600 of Graham’s men fell, himself included, but the British troops were caught by surprise and utterly routed by the claymore swinging clansmen.

calgacus, when does it crash? immediately?

No...it crashes when the Scots attempt to communicate with me.

but the leaderhead flic works fine when chosing the civ... hmmm... i have no idea what to tell you.

I have written all the files into PediaIcons. There seems to be the same problem with the other leaderheads I install also. It seems to be fine when I play as them but not against them.

I'm sure it'll be fixed when I fork out for PTW.

Revenge sween, REVENGE. its a private joke

- EDIT
- EDIT AGAIN
- EDIT ONCE MORE

ARRRRRRGHHHHH, JANDOR!!! DAMN YOU AND YOUR REVENGE!!!!