Hi all, i just tried out earth 18 and now wont play anything else :crazyeye:


So i am wondering- which civ (for BtS) do you think has the best abilities on this map?

I would start with rome, for Preats, then Persia, and then Aztecs.

There are two other threads on the subject if you search the forums. One was about rome being overpowered. The other was by me about Russia being overpowered.

The quick summary for Russia being overpowered: they have horses and can quickly use their chariots to overwhelm europe. However, plenty of other people have demonstrated similar "overpower" with Rome and others.

-- SJN

try the giant earth map mod too! you might just like it if you're a big earth fan. Also, there's practically 4-5 earth games every day on multiplayer/gamespy.
In the latter scenario, there aren't really any overpowered civs (though some are weaker than others), because human players are verry unpredictable.

Hmm, the europeans mostly have a tough time on that map. I find that Persia usually does well and Mansa Musa always does well with technology for some reason.

Egypt, Russia, and maybe China. And maybe India.

Aztecs allow you to REX in isolation (I know he starts with two other people, but they probably won't last very long...), though. So that's good.

The thing about europe is the heavily packed resources. Again, check out my thread about Russia on giant earth map. It's only prince level, but I put in a bunch of screenshots documenting a quick subjugation of Europe and harnessing all of those resources for wonders and a run-away tech lead.

-- SJN

France can walk straight into Berlin at the start of the game, and can get a lot of wonders with stone and marble with an Industrious leader. Smart city placement with Creative can block the Roman and Greek expansion, using the copper near Berlin to take the Roman cities before they get Iron Working. Your biggest threats are the winners of the Egypt/Mali/Arabian and Persia/India/China/Mongol wars that inevitably happen around the Medieval era. The other civs with the possible exception of Russia will be too small to be a threat, although this depends on Barbarians.

AARGH AI cathy is IMPOSSIBLE to work with. I play 18 with No City Razing, and she ALWAYS puts yerkatinburg in the middle of a winter wonderland.... right. Also she will NEVER vassalize.

have you try China, on Prince or lower, you can practically pwn the mongolians after AH. Pretty vast area and abundant resources, and no worries on happiness after calendar. But, not much trading, because Japan and Mongolia do not like to trade. Japan also has an excellent start, but requires a navy. India also has potential in the long run, but too much jungles in the beginning.


Incan has the worst start, not only they cant access Brazil, but most of their land tiles are useless mountains.

All Euro civs can warrior rush each other. Germany has sole control of copper in the region, so has an advantage pre-ironworking. Then, rome takes over.

Most powerful civs are probably rome, persia, China/mongolia (rush the other away), egypt and germany, in that order mostly.

Weakest are probably inca, arabia, and malinese - although inca isn't all THAT hard it's slow and boring and you certainly can't abuse the UU easily.

All Euro civs can warrior rush each other. Germany has sole control of copper in the region, so has an advantage pre-ironworking. Then, rome takes over.

Most powerful civs are probably rome, persia, China/mongolia (rush the other away), egypt and germany, in that order mostly.

Weakest are probably inca, arabia, and malinese - although inca isn't all THAT hard it's slow and boring and you certainly can't abuse the UU easily.

Ok, so why does everyone discount Russia? Nobody seems to give her any credit, but I haven't heard any reasons why. At prince level, I like her because:

1. Quick access to horses for a push into Europe. Germans go first before they have spearmen, and then Russia takes the bronze over. Rome is taken last. Even with Pratorians, I have a large battle hardened army + cats.
2. No significant threats on other borders until after Europe is taken
3. Cultural trait is a bonus for borders

The point I think in Russia's favor over the other european civs is "containment". Russia starts out as a "lid" on the European civs, whereas if you start as a European civ, Russia is already "out of the bag".

I've decided to give France a try right now. The Industrious trait is one of my favorites... haven't figured out the european conquest yet. I'll get back to you.

-- SJN

The strongest civ, well that depend on if we're talking as the AI, or as a human.

Human, any European civ is great, just pick the one with the traits you like and run over everyone else.

For the AI, Europe is obviously weak. Egypt usually get most of Africa because Mansa has such a poor spot. China usually romps over Mongols and does well, and India will do nicely too.

Cyrus expands like mad, but places a lot of fairly useless desert cities.

Worst civs, Mansa, Gengis Khan, America (pain being next to Monty, you have to kill him quick which gets hard on higher skills and it being against Monty!).

for the AI though, Inca is the worst. I don't understand, every civ, eg Japs and England will build galleys to expand.... but Incan's don't have the sense to make a galley and get onto the continant? An AI Incan could be pretty powerful mid/late game if he could settle that whole continant (infact I'm tempted to use worldbuilder and remove the hills to leave a gap through at a point or two, to see what happens).

The Incas have several problems on the Earth 18 civs map, Cuzco is not a coastal city and they are stuck on that tiny strip of land to name 2. I edited 3 of the mountains to hills in Worldbuilder so they have access the rest of the continent, and they were promptly destroyed by Barbarians. Although if they survive on my edited map they could become a fairly large civ.

So, playing as France... my impressions.

France Advantages:

1. Can destroy Rome before they get access to heavy metals. This is harder as the Russians in my experience.
2. Is a better starting city than Moscow
3. Also has horses, like Moscow
4. Trait Advantage (for my play style) with Industrious and keeps Cultural.
5. Better UB, imo

Disadvantage.

1. The "containment issues"

If you Warrior rush (see my thread, "your earliest GG") there are no "containment issues".

Plus france has IRON AND HORSES. that is a crazy combo, plus you get STONE AND MARBLE as an INDUSTRIOUS leader! Cultural victory easy.

France's creative/industrious traits (with marble/stone one tile away from capital) are extremely powerful here given the cluttered map for Europe. In a recent game I was able to axe rush Spain and eventually culture flip both London and Berlin while still in BC. As long as one can hold off a possible attack from Rome (which isn't too difficult since there are some forested hills that can be used to cut off their routes of advance), it's pretty easy to dominate western Europe--with its abundant resources--fairly early on.

Everyone's forgetting about Spain.
The AI Izzy is a pain, one extremely well defended city, takes Buddhism and converts the rest of Europe, making everyone else mad at you (I always found Judaism) and will never trade.

For a human player, I love her. You just get a settler as your first unit, settle just north of the Pyrenees Mountains, about a tile norht of real life Barcelona, and proceed to slaughter the French and Romans with your access to Iron and Horses. When I played as them, I settled all of South America, Northern Africa, and controlled most of Europe

Anything european is overpowered for the sheer concentration of small civs and also resources.
Otherwise china, india and persia. russia gets so much land, you don't know what to do.
I like egypt (check out the story in my sig) if i can get iron early enough.
Weakest is probably inca. no question about it.

Germany is best positioned to quickly overrun Europe, and the excellent traits more than offset the lack of relevant Uniques... I say it's the most favoured civ in this map.

Rome takes a little longer, but with Praetorians there is less pressure and no danger of having to conquer Europe on fair terms.

I think Paris is the best city spot on the map and it can wipe out some of it's neighbours just by cultural pressure in the hands of a human. But Rome can of course just take Paris with Praets and still turn it into a mad city. When I had taken out Germany, France and England Cathrine vassalized to me voluntarily and still remained very powerful so she does vassalize.

But China and Even the Aztecs can be very powerful even without rushing because of the land they have.

Heh, i just WBd to see the incas, and i was :rofl:

I played as Rome on Noble and overran Europe---France, Spanish, Greek wiped out. Vassalized Frederick who became a great Ally. Even then Vassalage'd Cathy after only taking 3 cities (St Pete and Moscow included). Vassalized the Arabs after taking only two cities. (Persia was wiped out by turn 3 from Barbarians I assume). Mansa and Hatty both asked me for protection. Then I only had Asia and the Americas to worry about all by 1 AD. Genghis was my first Vassal there. I constantly gave him new technology and he helped me take over everything else...

Omg you are SO LUCKY to get Persia dead. They are TECH MONSTERS.

I just played as France. I built every wonder except the Taj mahal, oracle, and GL, and Angkor wat.


I ended up winning by conquest victory. ( Actually, I wanted to take one more city from HC before accepting his capitulation, but oh well ). Settings were Noble and Epic.

Conquest is VERY hard on that sort of map. How did you do it?

I conquered people. But seriously, I don't remember all the details. I had mech infantry in the 1800s though. I was Ahead in tech compared to everyone. When I invaded The chineese, I had mech infantry and modern armor. ( I also nabbed The Mongolians and japaneese along the way )

I had Paris producing wonders and Military units, and Madrid pumping out military units.

In my opinion, conquest is only hard if you don't have many neighbors. The whole strategy depends on you NOT having to stop your war machine, and YOU acquiring new cities to boost your economy.

Civics were Representation, Bureacracy, Slavery, Decentralizaion and Organized religion. Switched to Free speech, Emancipation, and State property as soon as possible.


Used Universal suffrage to pump out Drill 2 units at any location with the pentagon.


Never left organized religion.

The only civ that was elminated was The spanish. The rest became vassals.

You vassalized all the other European civs? Wasn't your core pretty crowded. Did you perhaps manage to eliminate any of them purely by cultural pressure?

How early did you get vassalage, to be able to capitalate civs that close to you?

Why you guys playing Noble? Prince is where its at.

FYI: I'm a Monarch player, but FYI in this scenario Monarch AIs don't start with archers!

Anyone in Europe is the easiest, because you own all the capitals by 1000BC-0AD and the capitals are badass production cities which allow you to win at your leisure. I normally don't kill Cathy so she can help keep Persia in check, who in turn keeps China from expanding across Asia.

For the win with the least effort, I say Inca. Settler + Galley = colonization of all of South America. Great resources + crazy cottage cities + a couple OK production cities and one riverside production MONSTER = easy space race.

Aztec can easily kill America giving u second city, and a worker usually, and u can also get few wonders while u are it! Then just expand like a madman and swing down to kill Inca at your leisure.

Aztec can easily kill America giving u second city, and a worker usually, and u can also get few wonders while u are it! Then just expand like a madman and swing down to kill Inca at your leisure.

That's my plan!:D I love the aztecs then I just use washington from the americans and turn it into a navy city and conquer europe then with my other coastal city by waht is now baja california I conquer asia.Then nuke the middle east to the stone age.:nuke::king:

How early did you get vassalage, to be able to capitalate civs that close to you?


Yup. Even Monty and HC got vassalized.

I had a naval fleet to take on Toku, if he didn't capitulate with His master Qin shi huang, but he did anyways.


You vassalized all the other European civs? Wasn't your core pretty crowded. Did you perhaps manage to eliminate any of them purely by cultural pressure?


Nope. I Sword rushed Spain and Germany, so my only opponent left was Elizhabeth and Rome.

I Had 2 cities pumping out 1 unit per turn for every turn that I was at war. I used Musketmen to overrun Catherine and Alexander ( I'm serious )



Anyways, When I attacked Monty, I hit him in 5-6 places at once. I never built an aircraft though, aside from Stealth bombers for show. I was advancing too quickly. I also never used Spies. It was Plan A, But I couldn't churn out enough EP, so I simply went for siege.


One of the key points in the game was getting Vassalage BEFORE either Bureacracy OR Machinery. Early in the game I was thinking " Gee, this would be an awesome place for everyone to kick my arse", So I got the civic when I could. It helped keep wars short.


I attached the Replay. Just stick it in the replay folder in your Civ directory.


The only civs that died were the Americans and the Spanish. Monty killed the Americans ( Shame, if he hadn't I would have had more trouble rooting them out from North America ), And the Spanish died because of their only capital, and Sword rush.

I did a French chariot rush once (they start with agriculture and the wheel), and it was insanely powerful! After walking into Germany and destroying Berlin on one of the first turns, I began building a big army of chariots. Rome, Spain, England and parts of Greece and Russia all fell, basically giving me the entire continent. Russia became my vassal later on, and I also wiped out the rest of Greece.

After destroying Egypt though I got bored as the situation was now almost exactly the same as a game I was playing as Rome a short while ago.

I played this scenario for the first time a couple of days ago. I took Rome on Prince level just to see how it was. Now I own half the world, Egypt, Germany and Mali are my vassals, England, Greece and some other nation I can't remember are dead by my hand and the third and fourth in place (Saladin and Cyrus ) are at friendly/pleased with me. While I am first, my only angry enemy who happens to be second (China) is like 60%-70% of my power rating and second by a huge gap in points (if that is any indication). Smooth sailing I'd say to any win of my chosing.

I found this game to be extremely easy, especially since I just switched to Prince a couple fo weeks ago and am not so succesful on non-scenario maps. I know Rome is mighty and I will definitely try one or two other nations to see if I have the same success but I have the feeling that the scenario is generally easier by at least one difficulty level. Would you agree?

cheers,
wannabewarlord

I found this game to be extremely easy, especially since I just switched to Prince a couple fo weeks ago and am not so succesful on non-scenario maps. I know Rome is mighty and I will definitely try one or two other nations to see if I have the same success but I have the feeling that the scenario is generally easier by at least one difficulty level. Would you agree?

As mentioned above, playing one of the European civs makes life very easy, just rush the others and you have 6 extremely powerful cities for an easy game. France and Rome especially seem to be (IMO) 2 levels easier.

Try playing one of the new world civs, the Mongols or Mali for a challenge :)

You mean the Aztecs or Incans.

;7167271']You mean the Aztecs or Incans.

Sorry, I missed out an 'or' there :blush:

Try playing one of the new world civs or the Mongols or Mali for a challenge

I was actually trying to list 5 civs and making a very poor job of it :lol:

Persia isn't always so hard to take over. Saladin usually falls quite easy because he is boxed into crappy desert space/
In my last game, I was France and took over all of Europe, Arabia and Persia (I steamrolled them all the way into their South East Asian colonies and finally got them Vassalised. I had Germany, the Incans, Persia, my north American colonies (I delete Aztecs and Americans and replace them with barbarians..) as well as Mali. Genghis had everyone else vassalised and then invaded out of the blue with about 70 cavalry....I had no chance.

I think France is more powerful than Rome, To be quite honest. Rome has a crummy line of land compared to the french.

Of course Rome can dominate with its UU, where as France can run faster with theirs. (I never use Musketmen anyway)

It's not a matter of UU, It's a matter of the terrain that they start on.

I can usually get most of Europe, and the very, very good land that comes with it using several Preat rushes.

The thing is, you are both correct. The French starting position has several kinds of awesome and allows almost any strategy to work. The problem is keeping it when the Romans have there (possibly) overpowered sword replacement.

The Roman starting position is slightly less good, although if you had it in any standard game you would be dancing in the street :). Its probably on a par with the Spanish, English, Indian and Chinese starts.

The spanish starting position makes my eyes bleed.

As mentioned above, playing one of the European civs makes life very easy, just rush the others and you have 6 extremely powerful cities for an easy game. France and Rome especially seem to be (IMO) 2 levels easier.

Try playing one of the new world civs, the Mongols or Mali for a challenge :)

I thought so. I told myself to try out the Incans or Monty next and rush the new world, building an empire ready to embark on the conquest of europe. We shall see if I have the same smooth sailing. I doubt it :)

cheers,
wannabewarlord

;7168645']It's not a matter of UU, It's a matter of the terrain that they start on.

Paris is on the best plot on the map and can be a killer city but you can just take it over if you are Rome. Vice versa is also possible of course but the Roman UU can get you the whole of Europe and the Mediterranean too, easier and earlier than if you are France.