View Full Version : traits


AntoninusPius
Aug 17, 2008, 08:41 AM
Lord Shadow's List (based on screenshots of TheMystic)
We now have a nearly full list of traits thanks to the third batch of screenshots provided by TheMystic! It's only nearly complete because Frontenac's personal trait is slightly cut off.

ENGLAND

George Washington

Tolerant:
-25% crosses needed for immigration
Disciplined:
-50% soldier equipment required

John Adams

Tolerant:
-25% crosses needed for immigration
Libertarian:
+25% liberty bell production in all settlements

FRANCE

Louis de Frontenac

Cooperative:
Natives are more tolerant towards territory encroachment
-50% time spent living among natives to learn a new skill
Militaristic:
Free Promotion (Grenadier I) for Mounted Units (and Foot Units?)

Samuel de Champlain

Cooperative:
Natives are more tolerant towards territory encroachment
-50% time spent living among natives to learn a new skill
Enterprising:
+100% native conversion rate from missions

NETHERLANDS

Adriaen Van Der Donck

Mercantile:
Market prices are less sensitive
Charismatic:
+100% time between tax increases

Peter Stuyvesant

Mercantile:
Market prices are less sensitive
Industrious:
+25% production in all settlements

SPAIN

José de San Martín
Conquistador:
+25% vs. natives
Resourceful:
-50% XP needed for unit promotions

Simón Bolívar

Conquistador:
+25% vs. natives
Determined:
+100% effect of liberty bells on rebel strength

Lord Shadow
Aug 17, 2008, 02:02 PM
José de San Martín (Spain)

Conquistador: +25% against natives
Resourceful: -50% XP needed for promotions

I guess Conquistador's the common Spanish trait, so Simón Bolívar would have it as well. As for his personal trait, I don't know.

AntoninusPius
Aug 17, 2008, 02:11 PM
Thanks Lord Shadow, I just added José de San Martín to my list above! :-)

i_diavolorosso
Aug 17, 2008, 07:47 PM
So there would be two kind of traits isn' it???
The common and the personal

Lord Shadow
Aug 17, 2008, 07:51 PM
Yes, a national trait common to both leaders of a nation and a personal one, unique to each leader.

Lubricus
Aug 18, 2008, 12:10 AM
So, does anyone know how the Dutch national trait is spelled out?

Aussie_Lurker
Aug 18, 2008, 12:32 AM
Lubicrous. According to the Colonization Info Centre, http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/colonization (here), the Dutch National Trait is Mercantilism (Prices for goods remain constant). I guess this is useful to prevent gluts forcing down the market price for your goods back in the Mother Country.

Hope that helps.

Aussie.

Lubricus
Aug 18, 2008, 12:49 AM
Thanks, but not quite. I'm aware of the fact that the Dutch has got that trait, but I would like to see it spelled out in-game, so to speak, to see how it actually affects the game. In the original Colonization, the prices in Amsterdam were indeed affected by what you brought back from the New World, just not so quickly as for the other nations.

Aussie_Lurker
Aug 18, 2008, 12:52 AM
Well, that's my reading of it. Wheras other nations will drive down the price of the goods the greater the volume they sell, the Dutch player's goods will always sell for the same-or nearly the same-price as at the start. This would give advantages to players in the mid-late phase of the game, or any player who is limited to just a few key resources.

Aussie.

Knut_Are_M
Aug 18, 2008, 04:59 AM
samuel de champlain seems to have a good bonus.
2x native converts can stack up quite abit, not to mention haveing a much higher chance of getting the natives to fully share borders with you.

I am guessing that natives will be important as tradeing parteners.
i mean all natives pay well for horses and guns. some risky and greedy french/online players may use this oppertunity for a huge early cash bonus and sell muskets and horses to every single native tribe.

since when you deal with the king you can choose if you want to give in to demands or not. If you do not he will raise his taxes/army faster. If you do not pay taxes you will get alot of boycotted goods.
The thing is if most of your money comes from tradeing with natives you can choose to ignore taxes and just let them skyrocket up.
And of course choose founding fathers that bennefit from higher then average taxes.

AntoninusPius
Aug 18, 2008, 05:17 AM
Good point Knut Are M. But I wonder whether native tribes buy goods in unlimited amounts. I think it's not the case since the whole tax-angry-independence-thing would become obsolete (not only) for French players.

As for the 100% conversion rate: in the old Colonization game the native converts were inferior to free colonists (e.g. they didn't produce as much iron, corn, lumber). There was a Founding Father (I forgot his name) who turned all those converts into regular free colonists. So you needed him to get this strategy going. If it's going to work the same way in new Col game too, you would have to beeline to this guy because only one player is allowed to have him.

The strategy of selling weapons to the natives (guns + horses) as a French leader is a good way to weaken your european competitors! Just let the natives sweep them off the map!

Lubricus
Aug 18, 2008, 05:25 AM
I hope the new version will have a way to turn the converts into regular colonists over time, so that you don't end up with a bunch of people who don't fit in with your economic model. That tended to be the case for France in the original game, where the converts you got after you already had gotten the mentioned FF stayed as converts throughout the game.

Knut_Are_M
Aug 18, 2008, 07:01 AM
converts were bettter then average at growing things and fishing as well as hunting (+1) but only 1 on city work tough. And because there was so much land you could allways use them for another inland city.
I expect that also to be the case in civ 4 colonization.

Ps the natives in original colonization payed decent all the time for there favored good, but the truble was that they changed the need of goods each time you delivered goods to them. They never went empty of money, but the custom house was just more convenient.
Point is that you should allways be able to use your men. not in a single game i played in colonization did i ever have enough colonists. I rutinely had 30-40 men by the 1550ties though.
PS independence came before that.
My personal record on viceroy was 1660. I was english in south america focusing on cash crops and buying veteran soldiers. i killed the natives early for a healthy bonus to my growing economy.
The thing i remember most of that game is that my main city reached the size of 32.

Converts stayed converts for what i know.(1 time exception with founding father)
converts get +1 to growing hunting and fishing.
they got 1 on city work, and you could not use them as soldiers.
exsperts farmers and fishermen get +2. another +1 if it is a food or fishing bonus square.
all other civillian exsperts were 2x.

AntoninusPius
Aug 18, 2008, 07:27 AM
Oh, maybe I was wrong there... But I'm sure you couldn't send converts to school. A free colonist was able to become an expert farmer or fisherman easily (I think it was the fastest profession to be learned). Did a convert still produce more food than such an expert? Did a convert unit automatically pick up weapons when a city was under attack? If it did, how strong was a convert unit compared to a regular one? Do you remember?

Ok, you answered by editing your last post.

Lord Shadow
Aug 18, 2008, 11:10 AM
We now have a nearly full list of traits thanks to the third batch of screenshots provided by TheMystic! It's only nearly complete because Frontenac's personal trait is slightly cut off.

ENGLAND

George Washington

Tolerant:
-25% crosses needed for immigration
Disciplined:
-50% soldier equipment required

John Adams

Tolerant:
-25% crosses needed for immigration
Libertarian:
+25% liberty bell production in all settlements

FRANCE

Louis de Frontenac

Cooperative:
Natives are more tolerant towards territory encroachment
-50% time spent living among natives to learn a new skill
Militaristic:
Free Promotion (Grenadier I) for Mounted Units (and Foot Units?)

Samuel de Champlain

Cooperative:
Natives are more tolerant towards territory encroachment
-50% time spent living among natives to learn a new skill
Enterprising:
+100% native conversion rate from missions

NETHERLANDS

Adriaen Van Der Donck

Mercantile:
Market prices are less sensitive
Charismatic:
+100% time between tax increases

Peter Stuyvesant

Mercantile:
Market prices are less sensitive
Industrious:
+25% production in all settlements

SPAIN

José de San Martín

Conquistador:
+25% vs. natives
Resourceful:
-50% XP needed for unit promotions

Simón Bolívar

Conquistador:
+25% vs. natives
Determined:
+100% effect of liberty bells on rebel strength

AntoninusPius
Aug 18, 2008, 11:24 AM
Good Job Lord Shadow! Your beautiful list replaces my old one now, so that it's seen on the first post!

Lord Shadow
Aug 18, 2008, 11:30 AM
Thanks! :hatsoff:

Keep in mind the game's still in development, so I'd guess values are susceptible to change.

kolpo
Aug 19, 2008, 03:14 AM
I really like the traits of Peter Stuyvesant, the combination of +25% production and more stable prices can really help with early developement. In the beginning do I often only produce 1 or 2 finished goods so having more stable prices then is very important, the production bonus shall also really help with the fast developement of colonies. It means that docks, production buildings and schools are faster build.

While Samuel de Champlain looks good does his advantages completely depend on nearby natives. An aggresive Spanish nation might quickly wipe out those natives you depend so much on, I wonder if we can now place troops in allied native villages.

AntoninusPius
Aug 19, 2008, 03:30 AM
I thought the same way too, kolpo.

But yesterday I spent an hour to figure out, what production actually is. There is this hammer symbol on top of the city screen. The old Colonization game is so long ago that I can't remember how production is achieved. It's the lumber you need and then there's a guy (carpenter) who converts the lumber into production at his particular workshop / lumbermill. But if you look at the screenshots, it's difficult to tell. There seem to be several bonuses. The screenshot shows Plymouth (see spoiler) at size 14 producing 18 hammers. Why 18? Plymouth is building a shipyard, completet in 5 turns. On the bar you can see that 50 [something] are required. It's not the hammer symbol.

http://www.civfanatics.com/gallery/files/4/9/4/4/0/city_859257.jpg

Knut_Are_M
Aug 19, 2008, 03:33 AM
You can sell them guns and horses, makeing the spanish have a really hard time to take out the natives.
And if the natives are at war they will pay alot better for weapons and they will want alot more of em.
+ natives with guns and horses can easily rival a european player untill the midgame since theire numbers are far greater.

The only reason natives are easy to take out is because they will most often not have weapons, but if they get theire hands on it, be very careful as theire soldiers will be just as good as any european.
Also natives will most likely still retain the bonuses to combat for fighting in rough terrain.

Lubricus
Aug 19, 2008, 06:27 AM
Plymouth is building a shipyard, completet in 5 turns. On the bar you can see that 50 [something] are required. It's not the hammer symbol.


It needs 50 Tools, which you produce in the Blacksmith's Shop.

AntoninusPius
Aug 19, 2008, 06:45 AM
Oh, ok I see. And what about the 18 hammers? Where do they come from? Is it 13 + bonuses?

kolpo
Aug 21, 2008, 03:43 AM
I thought the same way too, kolpo.

But yesterday I spent an hour to figure out, what production actually is. There is this hammer symbol on top of the city screen. The old Colonization game is so long ago that I can't remember how production is achieved. It's the lumber you need and then there's a guy (carpenter) who converts the lumber into production at his particular workshop / lumbermill. But if you look at the screenshots, it's difficult to tell. There seem to be several bonuses. The screenshot shows Plymouth (see spoiler) at size 14 producing 18 hammers. Why 18? Plymouth is building a shipyard, completet in 5 turns. On the bar you can see that 50 [something] are required. It's not the hammer symbol.



In the old colonizationrequired many building tools in addition to the hammers needed to build them, I gues this stayed the same. Most likely does his bonus only apply to the hammer part and not the tool part.

Lubricus
Aug 21, 2008, 03:51 AM
Oh, ok I see. And what about the 18 hammers? Where do they come from? Is it 13 + bonuses?

Not sure, but can it be that the player has a Founding Father which gives a small bonus? I seem to remember that there is one such in the new game.

Lord Shadow
Aug 22, 2008, 09:08 AM
There are founding fathers to boost production, and the leader Peter Stuyvesant gives a +25% bonus to all Dutch settlements.