Conquest - Defeat all three colonies and 75 % of Native american forces

Domination: Have 50 % more land, Population, Army or Gold (any combination of two) than your next best opponent for 10 turns. Doesn't kick in if the enemy has 25% more in two ther category's or 50% in one.

Influence: Win 51% of Parliaments support by Bribing politicians or doing favours for them (like sink 5 dutch ships), Sending Founding Fathers to the Motherland (they give + 5% support but you lose their abilities) and sending goods requested by parliament home.

What do you think. Too complex, Too stupid or needs to be thought through? Or maybe even another Victory type?

As long as you're a colony, your mother country gets all the glory. The Influence victory idea is nice, but the others are kind of irrelevant in the context of Colonization. All extra victories should point towards achieving independence through various means, in a way your King wouldn't be able to blame you directly, and therefore unleash his Royal Expeditionary Force on you.

The Influence victory is suitable for that, as you'd get enough parliament support to get independence from them. There could be an Economic victory as well, in which you 'bribe' the other motherlands with a lot of gold so that they apply pressure on yours, and get your King to grant you independence for the sake of his European territory.

However, the problem of the Influence victory lies in the fact that not all European powers had such legal bodies. In France, the King decided on basically everything.

However, the problem of the Influence victory lies in the fact that not all European powers had such legal bodies. In France, the King decided on basically everything.
It doesn't have to be specifically parliament or individual politicians you're appeasing. It very well might just be convincing the King to grant you independence. It might require a slight re-imagining from the OP's proposal, but the essential idea's the same.

Always seemed logical to me that a game with an economic foundation to have an Economic Victory condition.. In Civ4, a modder added a complete new Religious Victory condition.. I'm hoping Colonization allows modders the opportunity to add a new one but I'm thinking not.. (sigh)

Yeah, I would like to see:

Religious Victory
Since Christianity will likely be the only religion in C4C, this could be based on either converts or religious freedom. Or both. For example, say you need to obtain 70% Religious Influence. Converting natives to Christianity will boost your influence by, say, 6%, while obtaining a number of crosses would boost it only by 3%. However, you need at least 50% of your the Religious Influence(35% of the total RI) to be from crosses.

Influence Victory
As mentioned earlier, this would involve gaining the support of either Parliament(If your country has one) or the Nobility and Aristocracy. This victory will be easier to achieve if your country has a Parliament, but is still possible if it doesn't. Sending over ambassadors(certain FF could become Great Ambassadors), sending gifts of gold or luxury resources, and liberty bell production would help them side with your colony over the King.

Diplomatic Victory
Unlike the Influence Victory, this involves gaining support from other nations. Helping their colonies, fighting their wars, and sending them treasure trains and/or gifts of money would help other countries ally with you.

There is no economic victory, and this is for a simple reason: until you gain independence, everything in your colony is technically your founding countries'. However, if you do have a powerful economy, you can use it to gain victory by 'purchacing' a Influence or Diplomatic Victory.

Okay eliminate the parliament. You have to influence nobles, who played a key part in society. And they were involved in warfare so a few favours like sinking one or two trade ships should appease them!

You could also influence nobles by selling them goods at lower prices (would require another option in Europe screen).

Well, there is no reason why Christianity can't be split up into Catholicism (Spain, France) and Protestant (England/Dutch). The idea being to get as many natives and individual colonies to convert to your specific sect of Christianity. Just a thought.

Aussie.

Or you could let it be really complicated- get used to being English Protestants, and then get the word from the mother country that the new king decided we're all gonna be Catholic now. Then three or four decades later, when you're used to that, the new new king says we're all going back to Protestantism.

Maybe that was part of the 50% cross bonus for the English- their monarchs kept on ticking off new groups of Christians.

Well, there is no reason why Christianity can't be split up into Catholicism (Spain, France) and Protestant (England/Dutch). The idea being to get as many natives and individual colonies to convert to your specific sect of Christianity. Just a thought.

Aussie.

I do like this idea.

Or it could be split into Anglicanism (England), Protestantism (Netherlands), Catholicism (France), Archcatholicism (Spain, which had a few officially "archcatholic" monarchs). This way everyone would have a religion.

France and Spain shared the same (and only) Catholicism.

Yes, but Spanish was more orthodox. Catholicism is different in every country. I know that because I live in catholic country with LOTS of unique aspects.

Yes, but Spanish was more orthodox. Catholicism is different in every country. I know that because I live in catholic country with LOTS of unique aspects.
So do I. But they all still acknowledge the same church and share the same theological values.

You could say there are different kinds of anglicans, lutherans and jews too.

Well they comletely ignored the fact that Christianity was in the beggining a Jewish sect (you can found Christianity without having a single city with Judaism) so they can ignore theological aspect as well. Besides it's more about organization of church. I don't remember much about France and Spain but in other Catholic countries local governments always tried to influence the church politically. Think of it as of a church with Spanish/French priests and Spanish/French traditions more than of a church with Spanish/French theological ideas.

And one more thing: there are two kinds of Catholicism: Greek and Roman. Believers of both of them obey the pope but they have some theeological differences.

Dutch= protestant/ lutheran
English= anglican church
Spanish= Catholic church(i.e. the pope)
Not sure about the French, though theyre not known for religious standpoints.
And orthodox greeks do not obey the pope.

Never heard of Greekocatholicism, or whatever it is called in English? It is a branch (if I can call it so) of western-european Christians that separated from the Orthodox church and agreed to obey the pope.

Also keep in mind that not everything with "Greek" in its name has something to do with Greece.

Never heard of Greekocatholicism, or whatever it is called in English? It is a branch (if I can call it so) of western-european Christians that separated from the Orthodox church and agreed to obey the pope.

Also keep in mind that not everything with "Greek" in its name has something to do with Greece.
Point is Spain and France share the same Roman Catholicism. Some people tend to be more orthodox than others, but you can find that in every religion.

Yeah, I would like to see:

Religious Victory
Since Christianity will likely be the only religion in C4C, this could be based on either converts or religious freedom. Or both. For example, say you need to obtain 70% Religious Influence. Converting natives to Christianity will boost your influence by, say, 6%, while obtaining a number of crosses would boost it only by 3%. However, you need at least 50% of your the Religious Influence(35% of the total RI) to be from crosses.

Influence Victory
As mentioned earlier, this would involve gaining the support of either Parliament(If your country has one) or the Nobility and Aristocracy. This victory will be easier to achieve if your country has a Parliament, but is still possible if it doesn't. Sending over ambassadors(certain FF could become Great Ambassadors), sending gifts of gold or luxury resources, and liberty bell production would help them side with your colony over the King.

Diplomatic Victory
Unlike the Influence Victory, this involves gaining support from other nations. Helping their colonies, fighting their wars, and sending them treasure trains and/or gifts of money would help other countries ally with you.

I like the two last ideas - especially the Influence Victory one.

I don't know how to quote, but I'll try.

Point is Spain and France share the same Roman Catholicism. Some people tend to be more orthodox than others, but you can find that in every religion.

That's why I added the point:

Besides it's more about organization of church. I don't remember much about France and Spain but in other Catholic countries local governments always tried to influence the church politically. Think of it as of a church with Spanish/French priests and Spanish/French traditions more than of a church with Spanish/French theological ideas.

What I meant was also the fact that can be simplified into this:
Spanish priests - obey pope and king.
French priests - obey king and pope.

For example: Philip IV taxed the priesthood and the pope opposed the idea french priests supported the king against the will of the pope (although that was in middle ages). French absolutism was also based on the theory that noone is above the king in his country not even the pope. Cardinal Rihelieu and Luis XIII let the Calvins practise they faith in Edict of Nantes ignoring counter-reformation.

Spain under Isabella and Ferdinand started the famous Spanish inquisition. I also remember this archcatholic monarh Philip II.

That's what I remember from history though I may be wrong at some points.

Beside that gameplay > realism and hawing the same religion for France and Spain wuld make it impossible to implement religious wictory.

I would like to add that the Protestant countries (England and the Netherlands) has wildly different brands of Christianity. In many ways, Anglican Protestantism is a lot closer to Catholicism than it is to Dutch Calvinism. Also, remember that many colonists had religious views that differed greatly from their motherlands' faiths - which was often their very reason for emigrating.

Indeed and it in some way kills the idea of religious victory and ends the debate.

Never heard of Greekocatholicism, or whatever it is called in English? It is a branch (if I can call it so) of western-european Christians that separated from the Orthodox church and agreed to obey the pope.

Also keep in mind that not everything with "Greek" in its name has something to do with Greece.

I know what i'm saying here. Catholicism split with the romans and the orthodox church was made. This church is adopted by the former Com - bloc countries, russia and greece. They don't opey the pope at all, but tolerate Catholicism and vica versa.

Well you definitely don't know what I'm talking about. I'm talking about Orthodox Christians from the present western Ukraine and Belarus (Polish-Lithuan Commonwealth at that time) who in 1596 in an Union of Brest agreed to obey the pope. I also know that it was not the only example of such agreement in history and all those people are known as Greek Catholics.

Sorry for bringing in the history of Polish-Lithuan Commonwealth I tried to aviod it.

The Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth was fiercely Catholic, so it isn't surprising that it "converted" some of its Orthodox subjects to Catholicism. And it has happened in other places, as well, as Bob mentioned. There isn't a single country in the world where everyone adheres to the same faith, after all.

I'm not sure if it's because I used to play the original game so I'm a bit reactionary, but where's the fun in winning by Economic/Cultural or Domination in a game that's supposed to be all about sticking it to the Mother Country?

The victory movies could be fun though, fireworks over JC Penney's etc.

Mercantile Victory - Reach 100,000 gold and have no embargos with Europe. Also requires 3 New World commodites be continually traded with Europe for a century to build up a dependency...

Domination Victory - Occupy over 75% of the New World

Political Victory - Complete a series of tasks for Parliament and pay them for the priviledge

Religious Victory - Expert missionaires in all Indian villages, cathedral in every colony, plus acquisition of 20,000 crosses and a dispensation from the Pope (at a price).

I'd lump the first two types into a kind of mother country co-op victory. Viceroyalty victory sounds nice (and alliterative).
Conditions:

1. Have 3x as much as the other Europeans in one condition and 2x as much in the other conditons, in the three main categories: land, army strength, and population. For the purposes of land counting it'd be primarily through culture, but through nominal land agreements made with the other Europeans would be ok if implemented.
2. All founding fathers must be sent back to the homeland (no benefits) where they are traded for bonus military units or extra colonists (This would be a neat standard option of the game, to trade the founding fathers benefits for elite military or colonist units that can't normally be built).
3. Be at peace with all Europeans (or destroy them).
4. Have a stockpile of all trade goods in the new world to some largish figure. 1000?


I like the Influence victory idea, though 66-75% approval with Parliament makes sense. It'd be interesting as a sort of spaceship victory where your elite statesmen (would have to be some mechanism to get your bona fide statesman to elite status, sort of a grab-bag of quest events where the reward is promote one statesman) and sent-home founding fathers occupy parliament seats. The influence value of the actual seat would be equal to the relative value of who occupies it---e.g. founding fathers's influence values relating to the value of them in play, and promoted statesman being somewhere in the middle of influence value.
The alternative way is to buy influence, though perhaps the colony's share of the wealth could be used to buy elite status for statesman at an expensive rate.
Victory is on reaching the dominant influence goal being equal to 'commonwealth' status for the colony. Commonwealth victory as a name?

In the end, though Independence should score the most in the victory totals (most challenging victory type and most thematic), with a coop victory scoring less (more points for a mainly military victory, and less for an influence victory, but more points overall for an earlier victory).


Conquest - Defeat all three colonies and 75 % of Native american forces

Domination: Have 50 % more land, Population, Army or Gold (any combination of two) than your next best opponent for 10 turns. Doesn't kick in if the enemy has 25% more in two ther category's or 50% in one.

Influence: Win 51% of Parliaments support by Bribing politicians or doing favours for them (like sink 5 dutch ships), Sending Founding Fathers to the Motherland (they give + 5% support but you lose their abilities) and sending goods requested by parliament home.

What do you think. Too complex, Too stupid or needs to be thought through? Or maybe even another Victory type?

I'd lump the first two types into a kind of mother country co-op victory. Viceroyalty victory sounds nice (and alliterative).
Conditions:

1. Have 3x as much as the other Europeans in one condition and 2x as much in the other conditons, in the three main categories: land, army strength, and population. For the purposes of land counting it'd be primarily through culture, but through nominal land agreements made with the other Europeans would be ok if implemented.
2. All founding fathers must be sent back to the homeland (no benefits) where they are traded for bonus military units or extra colonists (This would be a neat standard option of the game, to trade the founding fathers benefits for elite military or colonist units that can't normally be built).
3. Be at peace with all Europeans (or destroy them).
4. Have a stockpile of all trade goods in the new world to some largish figure. 1000?


I like the Influence victory idea, though 66-75% approval with Parliament makes sense. It'd be interesting as a sort of spaceship victory where your elite statesmen (would have to be some mechanism to get your bona fide statesman to elite status, sort of a grab-bag of quest events where the reward is promote one statesman) and sent-home founding fathers occupy parliament seats. The influence value of the actual seat would be equal to the relative value of who occupies it---e.g. founding fathers's influence values relating to the value of them in play, and promoted statesman being somewhere in the middle of influence value.
The alternative way is to buy influence, though perhaps the colony's share of the wealth could be used to buy elite status for statesman at an expensive rate.
Victory is on reaching the dominant influence goal being equal to 'commonwealth' status for the colony. Commonwealth victory as a name?

In the end, though Independence should score the most in the victory totals (most challenging victory type and most thematic), with a coop victory scoring less (more points for a mainly military victory, and less for an influence victory, but more points overall for an earlier victory).

1. In realistic terms it would be impossible for a small colony to match an army, population or land size of a european country.

2. This is a little restricting. Consider civ 4 or even civ rev. You hace a few options in each one wich are all benefitial in some way. Sendoing all founding fathers home would cripple your colony.

3. This is infeasable as once youre mother country war with another nation you're at war with them automatically.

4. This would be a bit silly, as all you would have to do is not trade (although it would cripple your economy) and gather enough.

On point one, I was referring to other colonial players, not their mother lands.

On point two, it's intended to be challenging, like refusing some bonuses in exchange for a different path to victory. Figure that by co-oping with the homeland, you don't have to go by the arduous task of raising an army that can defeat the homeland's army. And I did suggest a benefit in that the 'returned' founding fathers are cashed in for benefits that can't be gotten any other way such as elite units.

Point three isn't infeasible, because if your mother country wants the other colonial powers destroyed, you'd better do it if you want her to glorify you. Again, I was referring only to the colonial players, not their actual mother lands. E.g. You're English, and England is at war with 2 other civs. Destroy those 2 civ's colonial presence.

On point 4, I do agree that it's silly. I was grasping for some kind of representation of economic greatness. Maybe simply a tally of all taxes your colony paid to the mother country should be goal with some impressive figure as the target. Can't guess at an appropriate scale without playing the current version of the game to see what the taxes are and how they increase.

1. In realistic terms it would be impossible for a small colony to match an army, population or land size of a european country.

2. This is a little restricting. Consider civ 4 or even civ rev. You hace a few options in each one wich are all benefitial in some way. Sendoing all founding fathers home would cripple your colony.

3. This is infeasable as once youre mother country war with another nation you're at war with them automatically.

4. This would be a bit silly, as all you would have to do is not trade (although it would cripple your economy) and gather enough.

Well the Goals could relate to Victory types, as a colony, you could have 2 basic goals (beyond survival)

1. Independence
2. Full Membershi in the mother country

(the last was what many of America's actual founding fathers initially wanted... proper representation in Parliament.. so they wouldn't get taxed)

so getting representation in Parliament/the Nobility/Aristocracy, etc. would give that second Victory Condition

So The first requires building up resource to fight the King's armies and bribing other powers to get involved

The second would require resources to fight other Colonial Powers and perform other tasks to


Perhaps in BOTH cases you get to Write a new constitution
Independence, this is the constitution you wil fight under
Commonwealth, this is the constitution you are trying to fight FOR (the updated Magna Carta or the Articles of the Hispanic Confederation) although you fight for it Politically.... if you succeed in Either case your new Constitution is accepted

So I could see those two Victories being interesting options

Don't you write the constitution by making some tough choices ( slavery + 25% labour vs. all me are free + 3 pop.!). I get the idea though.

According to the latest Colonization preview (http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=55350), there will be three victory conditions (Europe, Independence, and Time). :)

I read it and saw nothing about any Europe winning condition..only that you get a score after turns run out even if you don't win...

And though it was a flattering review even they state the game is still is a "rigid" Victory condition scenario and "You will frequently find yourself quitting out of games because after a while, you'll be able to recognize a losing situation".
Funny how no one focuses on that..

The game needed a new Victory condition added... oh well..

The only real new strategy options from the original seems in picking your pre-game setup..:rolleyes:

Read, don't just word search. ;)

A finicky or advanced player can use the Custom menu to set up the game in a way to suit his liking. You can set any of three winning conditions in your game (Europe, Independence or Time), set how many AI players you want competing with you in a one-player game, set parameters for the behavior of the AI, and even control parameters of the map generation algorithm. Perhaps most useful to a finicky player, you can also opt to start games with your civilization already developed to a particular point … say, ready to declare independence if you want an action game, or with your first colonies already founded if you dislike the early exploration phase of the game. The Custom commands can be applied to any game you start or to a Scenario game, and they may very well save the game in the eyes of players who really like or dislike particular features.

Okay,, Time is just your final score and we know what the Independence Victory is,, what is the Europe winning condition ? :|

Maybe it's like a conquest victory. Eliminate all your rivals and you win under a European flag? Anybody's guess really, I think the only information we have about it is the name!

Hard to believe no one has even heard of any "Europe" victory condition before that latest review and the game is out in 3 weeks.. An additional Victory condition from the original would be too great to just slip it casual in one sentence and not even expand on it at all.. My guess is that the reviewer mis-spoke...

My guess is that the reviewer mis-spoke...Hopefully he did not, I would love more variety for gamplay reasons.

Hard to believe no one has even heard of any "Europe" victory condition before that latest review and the game is out in 3 weeks.. An additional Victory condition from the original would be too great to just slip it casual in one sentence and not even expand on it at all.. My guess is that the reviewer mis-spoke...
Fact remains that the game's still in development. How's it strange that new features are added before the release? :p

I agree Lord that features can be always be added in but a whole new Victory condition is NOT something you can just slip in the last few weeks.. but I guess we'll all know pretty soon.. :D

agreed, we get what we get, beggars can't be choosers.